O Hand Trinity Review
ROBERT C. LANG
NOTE: This article was submitted to The Informer Magazine by one of our
free-lance writers. Because Trinity has been billed as a "Video Toaster
Killer"
(and Play has stated in their ads "May the Amiga rest in peace") we
thought it
vital we present this review of the Trinity System to the Amiga public,
just in
case they considered leaving their Toaster/Flyer system for something
hyped
to be better. The author is a credible professional in the field and his
review
here is based on hands-on facts, not unfounded speculation. Reading this
review will provide you with facts and information vital to forming your
opinion
before you buy any video editing system. Because of the authors current
employment situation, he requested that his real name not be used.
Please pass along this review to any and all you think will be
interested.
Holy Trinity?
By Soothsayer
Because of the massive advertising campaign of the Trinity System by
Play
Inc. and the fact that dealers have finally started to receive demo
units of
Trinity, I thought it was high time I checked it out. I am a plug-in
developer for
video editing/graphics software/hardware and am constantly looking for
new
cutting edge tools for which to develop add-on products. In addition, I
am a
semi-professional videographer. Play Inc. claims the Trinity is the
future of
television. In their own words they insist they are the next Sony. If
you take
Play on their word the Trinity is the utopian video product that the
entire world
has been waiting for with baited breath. I had to find out the truth for
myself.
This article is based on many weeks and hours using the currently
available
Trinity system. This is an honest review of the product from the
standpoint of
a user and potential developer. I will compare what Play claims the
Trinity is
capable of to the true functionality of the Trinity units now available
at your
local dealer.
Unlike many mainstream MAC & PC customers I've wanted to know about
Trinity for a long time. At a 1991 trade show called AmiExpo, Digital
Creations/Progressive Image promised to ship a new product in one years
time that would be a Video Toaster killer. It was then called V-Machine,
the
predecessor to Trinity. Back then Digital Creations (DC) had a great
track
record. Electronic Arts contracted DC to port Deluxe Paint to the Atari
ST. DC
also created Deluxe Photolab for the Amiga before Photoshop was even a
gleam in Adobe's eye. Another one of their products, DCTV and its
included
paint package, won them many accolades. It even did real-time animation
in
about four million colors before the Video Toaster had any real-time
animation playback features. Unfortunately, Digital Creations & their
Amiga
products went away in a company merger. Play was born, as was their
first
PC product, the Snappy video snapshot.
The Trinity system is a rather large square Borg-like cube that is much
bigger
than your computer. It connects to a host PC that must be running either
Windows 95 or NT. Trinity dealers will tell you don't even think about
using
Trinity under Windows 95, NT is a must if you are serious. By my
observations of how unstable the product is on Windows NT (I did not
test it
on Win95) I would have to agree with them. The Trinity "Borg" cube comes
with a special PCI serial card that connects it to your computer.
Play Inc. claims any standard Intel Pentium PC running Win95 or NT 4.0
with
32Mb RAM, CD-ROM and 1024X768 SVGA display is all you need to use the
system. The dealer that wanted to sell me the system said a Pentium II
300Mhz with 64Mb RAM is a must. He suggested that better still would be
128Mb RAM and five monitors!
Trinity consists of five major parts. The Switcher, TitleWave CG,
PersonalFX,
Panamation & Preditor. We will cover them all separately and in detail.
The
Warp Engine hardware is suppose to tie all these together in real-time.
First lets discuss what I thought was going to be my favorite part of
the Trinity
system, PersonalFX. What is it? If you go by Play's description on page
seven of their high glossy handout, PersonalFX is an essential tool that
makes it easy to create any type of effect, including effects which
combine
live video surfaces with 3D shapes. All this without the need to learn
time-consuming general purpose 3D software or the complex interfaces of
traditional video gear. The Reality is this: I found PersonalFX to be a
poor
mans Lightwave that was prone to crash for no reason at a moments
notice.
In Trinity's own manual Play states, "Keep in mind there are still
several
outstanding problems with this software including some effect generation
issues which can cause incorrect anti-aliasing, holes and spikes in some
effects." So in effect you become an unpaid beta tester for this
software even
though Play has repeatedly claimed the long delay for Trinity's shipping
was
so they could get it right the first time and not subject new users to
incomplete software. Presumably, that's why it took eight years to ship,
or so
we thought.
But that is not the most shocking part about PersonalFX. Play has
maintained that Trinity's most amazing feature compared to other systems
is
that it operates in Real-Time with no rendering. If that is true then
tell me why
on a dual Pentium II 300Mhz, PersonalFX requires rendering! That's
right, it
has to render the effect. But what about all those special custom chips
in that
huge cube? Never mind the fact that I tested it on the latest and
greatest PC
that effectively runs at 600Mhz. In Plays own words they state; "we're
inventing many new technologies which are now incorporated into
Trinity's 20
custom chips and over one million lines of software code". So what are
those
custom chips doing? Apparently nothing for PersonalFX, that's for sure.
The
program WipeStudio is much faster. Want to create custom effects with
the
Video Toaster? Use Lightwave, Aladdin 4D, Tornado 3D, ImageFX, Deluxe
Paint 5 or even Plays own Brilliance 2.0 software for that matter.
Making your
effects in one of these packages then processing it though Wipe Studio
running on an 68060 CPU is faster than PersonalFX. In addition, the
dealer
was unable to demonstrate Warping Video onto arbitrary 3D shapes and
applying live procedural distortions including waves and ripples &
morphing in real-time between different 3D shapes. However, play still
claims it can be done (surf to
"http://www.play.com/pages/trinity/3d.html" to
see this claim).
Warp engine: Play hypes; "Warp Engine can perform in real-time any 3D
digital video effect you've seen on network television, such as flying
video
screens, spheres, cubes and page peels, all with the lighting, shadows
and
transparency that make these effects so dramatic." Reality: I have to
admit
that some of the Trinity's effects are impressive at first glance. But
upon
closer inspection you will notice slight banding and jaggies in some of
the
Real-Time effects. For example, on the famous rotating video cube in a
floating reflection mapped water surface, look at the top of the cube
and what
do you see? Slight distortion and breakup of the video. I don't know why
this
is and maybe it will go away when the Trinity is no longer a composite
device. That's right, the current shipping Trinity is COMPOSITE ONLY!
Never
mind all the hype about it working with Componite, S-VHS, Firewire etc.
It
comes with composite which costs extra! $695-795 per input and you need
the Clip Grab card which costs another $995. The brochure says; "All
Included for $4,995, but that statement is apparently a work of fiction.
A
Trinity system will cost you about $25,000 with a host PC, or $15,000
without
a computer. But buying one to use on your own computer is not recommend
unless you want to brave the possible horror of using Trinity untested
PC
motherboards, Graphics cards, chipsets, etc. Play should state clearly
that
your $4,995 does not include the Composite Preview card for $395, the
Serial D1 Input module for $995, the Serial D1 Output Module for $995,
and
the Blackburst Generator for $295. And if you want any type of audio the
base Audio Sub-System is $1,895.
While we are on the subject of audio, if you buy the Audio sub-system
add-on, you would think some nice audio effects would accompany the
Real-Time Digital Video Effects (DVE). Sorry, unlike the Video Toaster,
all of
the Real-Time Effects
happen in complete silence. The audio sub-system must be for some cool
audio mixing software, and is currently unavailable.
Lack of audio on the effects can be forgiven, but what about video
effects
that are corrupt? In Play's own words "We are fixing many of the digital
video
effects that have pop & glitch errors during playback." I witnessed this
first
hand and it does not look pretty. In addition, I noticed an annoying
flickering
video streak on every Framestore I grabbed. Play has shown off their
Fire &
Explosion Real-Time Effects for some time and explained it was only
possible because of those 20 fantastic custom chips in Trinity. At
Amiga98 in
St. Louis I saw an add-on Effects CD-ROM for the Amiga called Pyromania
that had many more and better Fire, Explosion & even Smoke Real-Time
Effects for the Video Toaster 4000. No Trinity coprocessors or Borg cube
required.
Switcher: In Plays own words; "This powerful switcher is the heart of
Trinity's
live production capabilities. It mixes up to eight video sources, two
still stores,
and a matte generator together in real time at full D1 resolution.
Trinity's
exclusive capabilities . . . include soft edged organic wipes". Since
when are
soft edge organic wipes exclusive to Trinity? The Video Toaster did this
in
1992 and the folks at Play should know this since they made the same
claim
when they worked at NewTek. In fact, the interface for Switcher seems
like a
24-bit harder-to-use copy of the 1993 Video Toaster interface. It has
more
buttons to be sure, but it's not very stable. I experienced many crashes
while
using the Switcher or almost any part of the system for that matter. It
did not
bring down Windows NT completely but you had to reset and/or restart
Trinity. Play insists you can mix eight live inputs at once but the
dealer I
worked with was unable to show that feature of the Switcher. The icons
of the
effects, or "picons" as the manual refers to them, are fantastically
rendered in
24-bit. So if you like pretty icons look no further.
Panamation: Plays words; "Panamation is an object-oriented paint,
animation
and compositing system with the real-time performance required for fast
paced production environments. Panamation allows you to paint in
real-time
directly on live video with variable transparency and unlimited
undo/redo of
any stroke at any time. In fact, every stroke is actually an object
which can
have any of its attributes animated, including position, size, rotation,
color,
texture, transparency, shadow, velocity, acceleration, scatter value and
more.
[You can also ] paint directly on non-linear video clips." It's kind of
hard to
paint on non-linear clips when the Trinity has no shipping date for its
Non-linear Effects (NLE), which will also cost you extra when it is
available.
In addition, Panamation has many Real-Time 24-bit brushes included in
the
package, but that's just what they are, Brushes. You can created, use
and
save 24-bit brushes in any modern painting program, but it's nice they
did it
for you. Panamation, unlike PersonalFX is Real-Time for almost all
operations. I don't know if this is because I tested it on a dual 300Mhz
Pentium II or because of the Trinity custom chips. I would hope it's the
custom chips since they were allowed to relax while running PersonalFX.
As
an old time DCTV owner I was excited to see this part of the system. It
is
object-oriented with unlimited undos as they claim. The Digital
Creations
team that is now a part of Play has much experience in creating nice
painting
software and it shows.
I am afraid they should have shipped Panamation long ago as a separate
package. In 1995 when Play promoted Panamation as an advanced
object-oriented paintbox nothing else like it was available. However, in
1998
the software industry has moved on. The program Illuminare Studio
(created
by some of the ex-Opalvision programmers) from Discreet Logic is
available
for both Mac & PC and gives everyone object-oriented painting with
unlimited
undo in software only. The fact is that Illuminare has much more depth
and
features than Panamation and does not require special hardware. For more
info surf to http://www2.discreet.com/dlselector/go.html
For the Amiga I was very impressed with Photogenics Ng at Amiga98. This
brand new package brings painting to a whole new level with many new
features not seen before in any software and it's Amiga only. It strives
to
support painting in Real-Time on Flyer Clips and Toaster Framestores.
The
user interface and advanced layering features of this painting software
are
inspiring. It is created by a talented artist/programmer, a mix that is
rare in
the software industry. Within six months the developer of this software
plans
to eclipse all of the features in Panamation. And that is not the only
package
available, ImageFX 3.0 directly hooks into The Video Toaster/Flyer and
gives
it a host of fantastic features similar to After Effects only much easy
& faster.
TitleWave CG: Plays words; "Trinity's advanced TitleWave hardware and
software creates, animates, and superimposes high-resolution text onto
live video. TitleWave features full support for anti-aliased text and
graphic
elements with multiple color gradients, 24-bit textures, transparency
and a
myriad of type treatments for text faces, outlines, borders and
shadows."
TitleWave was the most stable of the software included with Trinity.
Unlike
the other features TitleWave appeared to deliver all it claimed and it's
a fast
modern Character Generator (CG). I was unable to test how it integrates
with
the NLE however, and text did corrupt once during a project in the
Preditor
timeline. Play should have released the Trinity as a high end advanced
CG/Paintbox (because TitleWave and Panamation are well implemented
programs) and been more up front about the rest of the system not being
finished. As it ships now, Trinity appears to be a rushed incomplete
solution
and may well be judged as such by the video industry. Play should
correct
this possible perception by the industry or things may come back to
haunt
them.
Virtual Sets: Play's words; "Trinity Virtual Sets® allow the combination
of live
actors and 3D computer graphics to generate super realistic digital sets
in
real-time. Trinity synthesizes these photo-realistic scenes by using its
sophisticated Virtual Set software and the combined power of the Warp
Engine, Switcher and Chroma Keyer." Reality: Play gives you some 24-bit
backdrop images that can be used to Genlock or Chroma Key yourself into.
However, anyone with a camera can grab an image of a room with empty
chairs or a vacant kitchen.
Preditor: With a name right out of a Hollywood movie, the title sounds
powerful. Play states; "Preditor is a next generation non-linear/linear
video
editor built for speed and ease of use. Using Trinity's powerful
hardware, all
operations happen in real-time, including compositing up to eight video
clips
and digital audio tracks simultaneously. You can drag through your
timeline,
and see every dissolve, wipe, digital video effect graphic, title, and
still store
instantly, all at full D1 resolution without rendering." Reality:
Preditor only
layers two tracks of video and two tracks of still store with audio. The
dealer
claimed this may never change or the whole interface to the software
might
be thrown out anytime. How comforting. The non-linear part of Preditor
has
no shipping date and costs extra even though Play says it's included in
the
$4,995. According to dealers and price quotes, this seems to not be the
case,
but that is a matter of course when it comes to the Trinity System.
After the Trinity dealer carefully explained to me why non-linear
editing is not
that important for beginning Trinity buyers, he spent the next 45
minutes
struggling to get Preditor to control two BetaCam SP decks. The VTR's
were
spinning hopelessly out of control as he attempted to create an edit
with a
simple dissolve in the timeline. Whatever commands Preditor was sending
to
the decks they spun helplessly back and forth not understanding what
Trinity
wanted them to do. This is inexcusable, an Avid Media Composer does this
flawlessly as does Decision Maker or AV8TR+ for the Video Toaster. So
ask
yourself, why can't Trinity do it?
And if Trinity has a hard time with just Linear editing, how will it do
with
non-linear/linear at the same time in the same project (like they
claim)? And
how about the bigger question. Why can't Play use Trinity to produce
their
own demo video which has been used on their website for over two years?
If
they, the designers and developers, can't make a video with it, how will
you?
Don James
Thanks for posting Soothsayer's review.
He must have gotten a pretty poor demo, or misunderstood a lot.
The following are a few corrections.
--
Don James The Computer Room
Colorado's Desktop Video Specialists
2760 S. Havana St. Aurora, CO 80014
(303) 696-8973 http://www.ComputerRoom.com
d...@computerroom.com
_____________________________________
ROBERT C. LANG wrote in message <3525A2...@pacbell.net>...
>Holy Trinity?
>
>By Soothsayer
>Trinity dealers will tell you don't even think about
>using
>Trinity under Windows 95,
Current version of Trinity only runs under Windows NT. It will run under
Win 95 in the near future. Play has not committed to any specific date.
> But that is not the most shocking part about PersonalFX. Play has
>maintained that Trinity's most amazing feature compared to other systems
>is
>that it operates in Real-Time with no rendering. If that is true then
>tell me why
>on a dual Pentium II 300Mhz, PersonalFX requires rendering! That's
>right, it
>has to render the effect.
Personal FX is a program to create wipes that operate in real-time. Yes,
after you create a custom 3D wipe in Personal FX, it has to be
rendered/compiled, ONCE. Then it is a real time effect that maps live video
onto random shapes, in real-time. It is not comparable with Premiere, Image
FX, Boris, or any other program where you have to render the effect EVERY
time with new video.
>That's right, the current shipping Trinity is COMPOSITE ONLY!
Incorrect. The Trinity is available today with two types of I/O boards.
One
choice is a board that is software switchable between Composite or Y/C.
The
other choice is Serial D1. Component, YUV or RGB, will be available in
about
a month.
>you need
>the Clip Grab card which costs another $995.
Clip grab card is optional. It primarily is to put Program and Preview
video monitors right on your PC screen
>Trinity system will cost you about $25,000 with a host PC, or $15,000
>without
>a computer.
Average Linear system is more like $9-11,000. Non-Linear is $6,000 more
It does not require a $10,000 computer. Any P-150 or above, 64 MB RAM,
Windows NT 4.0 with one available PCI slot, and 2 GB free on the HD should
work. Closer to $3,000 or less
>But buying one to use on your own computer is not recommend
>unless you want to brave the possible horror of using Trinity untested
>PC
>motherboards, Graphics cards, chipsets, etc.
Nothing goes in your computer except for one PCI card and the software. The
Trinity motherboard, graphic cards, and chipsets reside in the Trinity box,
and have been very thoroughly tested. That's the logic behind having all
the heavy duty processing done in the custom Trinity box, not crammed into
the computer.
>Play should state clearly
>that
>your $4,995 does not include the Composite Preview card for $395, the
>Serial D1 Input module for $995, the Serial D1 Output Module for $995,
>and
>the Blackburst Generator for $295. And if you want any type of audio the
>base Audio Sub-System is $1,895.
Play dealers do state clearly all board prices. The Black Burst is included
on the master output card. 8x4 Audio Sub-Systems are $1,495 for unbalanced,
$1,795 balanced.
>The audio sub-system must be for some cool
>audio mixing software, and is currently unavailable.
The Audio System interfaces with Preditor, the timeline editing software.
It allows you to do Audio Fades, ramp up and down, balance, EQ, and more.
>In Play's own words "We are fixing many of the digital
>video
>effects that have pop & glitch errors during playback." I witnessed this
>first
>hand and it does not look pretty. In addition, I noticed an annoying
>flickering
>video streak on every Framestore I grabbed.
I have never heard those words from Play the company, they may have come
from a Play Dealer, I don't know. We have not experienced any of these. It
sound like the Trinity you got your demo on was not properly synced on all
inputs. In that case you will see a flash before digital effects, and a
line through some video.
>Virtual Sets Reality: Play gives you some 24-bit
>backdrop images that can be used to Genlock or Chroma Key yourself into.
>However, anyone with a camera can grab an image of a room with empty
>chairs or a vacant kitchen.
Yes, but if you want your talent to be reflected in some object in your
virtual set, that's where the Trinity's Warp Engine comes into play.
>Preditor: ." Reality:
>Preditor only
>layers two tracks of video and two tracks of still store with audio. The
>dealer
>claimed this may never change or the whole interface to the software
>might
>be thrown out anytime. How comforting.
The current Preditor also supports a separate Down Stream Key channel, which
can be operating at the same time that real-time wipes are happening.
Future upgrades to the software will support more real time layers
>The non-linear part of Preditor has
>no shipping date and costs extra even though Play says it's included in
>the
>$4,995.
The Linear and Non-Linear editing software and RS-422 deck control are
include in the $4,995. Decks for linear editing, and hard drive storage for
non-linear are a separate purchase.
>
>After the Trinity dealer carefully explained to me why non-linear
>editing is not
>that important for beginning Trinity buyers, he spent the next 45
>minutes
>struggling to get Preditor to control two Betacam SP decks. The VTR's
>were
>spinning hopelessly out of control as he attempted to create an edit
>with a
>simple dissolve in the timeline.
Not the fault of Trinity. Preditor works fine with RS-422 decks. Perhaps
the dealer was wrapping back past 24:59:59 in the Time code, or ...?
>Why can't Play use Trinity to produce
>their
>own demo video which has been used on their Website for over two years?
>If
>they, the designers and developers, can't make a video with it, how will
>you?
Trinity's new one hour end-user video will premiere at NAB this week.
Dealers will soon have copies, and it will ship with new systems.
Sorry, you got such a poor demo. The reality of thought and manifestation,
is that we will most likely find what we seek. If you truly seek another
demo to show you the good things about the Trinity, you can probably get one
at another dealership.
ROBERT C. LANG
Don James wrote:
>
> Thanks for posting Soothsayer's review.
> He must have gotten a pretty poor demo, or misunderstood a lot.
> The following are a few corrections.
The Soothsayer's response is as follows:
> --
>
> I misunderstood nothing, Trinity is a moving target because it is not done.
Anyone that buys one from Don James is an unpaid betatester. Thats
right, Don
James is a Vantage Trinity dealer, he has everything to gain to promote
Trinity, it pays his bills. He would like nothing more than to sell
everyone a
Trinity system, more $$$ for the Computer Room. I on the other hand have
nothing to gain or lose if you buy a Trinity. I might have developed
plug-ins
for it if it was a better product, that is why I went to see it in the
first
place. I was very dissapointed with the Trinity and that is sad because
Digital Creations has made some fine products in the past, DCTV for
example.
The Trinity however is misleading the customer, it's a fact.
Soothsayer
ROBERT C. LANG
I inadvertently failed to post the Soothsayers entire response:
Don James" <d...@computerroom.com> writes:
>222 3734 <6g6cq9$a8l$1...@client2.news.psi.net>
>Thanks for posting Soothsayer's review.
>He must have gotten a pretty poor demo, or misunderstood a lot.
>The following are a few corrections.
I misunderstood nothing, Trinity is a moving target because it is not
done.
Anyone that buys one from Don James is an unpaid betatester. Thats
right, Don
James is a Vantage Trinity dealer, he has everything to gain to promote
Trinity, it pays his bills. He would like nothing more than to sell
everyone a
Trinity system, more $$$ for the Computer Room. I on the other hand have
nothing to gain or lose if you buy a Trinity. I might have developed
plug-ins
for it if it was a better product, that is why I went to see it in the
first
place. I was very dissapointed with the Trinity and that is sad because
Digital Creations has made some fine products in the past, DCTV for
example.
The Trinity however is misleading the customer, it's a fact.
>Don James The Computer Room
>Colorado's Desktop Video Specialists
>2760 S. Havana St. Aurora, CO 80014
>(303) 696-8973 http://www.ComputerRoom.com
>d...@computerroom.com
>_____________________________________
>ROBERT C. LANG wrote in message <3525A2...@pacbell.net>...
>
>>Holy Trinity?
>>
>>By Soothsayer
>>Trinity dealers will tell you don't even think about
>>using Trinity under Windows 95,
>
>Current version of Trinity only runs under Windows NT. It will run under
>Win 95 in the near future. Play has not commited to any specuific date.
Who cares if it ever supports Windows 95, that's not the point of the
article. Play Inc. is the one that has proclaimed for years that it will
work
with any PC with Windows 95. Even now at
http://www.play.com/pages/trinity/faqs.html#work
"Q: What type of computer system will work with the Trinity?
A: Trinity will work with any Pentium-based PC which has Windows 95 or
NT 4.0,
a CD-ROM drive, and 32 megabytes of RAM."
If the Trinity does not work with Win95 why has Play always said it
will? Ask
Don James if he would ever honestly sell a customer a Trinity system
that only
has a Pentium 150 and 32MB of RAM, I hope he would not.
>Personal FX is a program to create wipes that operate in real-time. Yes,
>after you create a custom 3D wipe in Personal FX, it has to be
>rendered/compiled, ONCE. Then it is a real time effect that maps live video
>onto random shapes, in real-time. It is not comparable with Premiere, Image
>FX, Boris, or any other program where you have to render the effect EVERY
>time with new video.
It's Play's claim that PersonalFX is real-time, not mine. Please see
http://www.play.com/pages/trinity/3d.html Play said; "Warp Video onto
arbitrary 3D shapes in real-time Apply live procedural distortions
including
waves and ripples, Morph in real-time between different 3D shapes."
>>That's right, the current shipping Trinity is COMPOSITE ONLY!
>
>
>Incorrect. The Trinity is availabe today with two types of I/O boards. One
>choice is a board that is software switchable between Composite or Y/C. The
>other choice is Serial D1. Componet, YUV or RGB, will be available in about
>a month.
Keep in mind that the Trinity is a beta product and may now have more
video
input/output options since the review, one would hope so.
>>you need
>>the Clip Grab card which costs another $995.
>
>Clip grab card is optional. It primarily is to put Program and Preview
>video monitors right on your PC screen
Play has always promoted this as an included feature, even now on their
website they continue to do it.
>
>>Trinity system will cost you about $25,000 with a host PC, or $15,000
>>without
>>a computer.
>Average Linear system is more like $9-11,000. Non-Linear is $6,000 more
>It does not require a $10,000 computer. Any P-150 or above, 64 MB RAM,
>Windows NT 4.0 with one available PCI slot, and 2 GB free on the HD should
>work. Closer to $3,000 or less
Don's prices are cheaper than the dealer I went to, great. This does
not make
the Trinity a working solution. I would like to attend a demo of Don
showing
Trinity on a Pentium 150 with 32MB of RAM only :)
>
>>But buying one to use on your own computer is not recommend
>>unless you want to brave the possible horror of using Trinity untested
>>PC motherboards, Graphics cards, chipsets, etc.
>Nothing goes in your computer except for one PCI card and the software. The
>Trinity motherboard, graphic cards, and chipsets reside in the Trinity box,
>and have been very thoroughly tested. That's the logic behind having all
>the heavy duty proccessing done in the custom Trinity box, not cramed into
>the computer.
So why does Play recommend only certain machines and stress that a
Pentium II
is recommended if you call and ask them?
>Play dealers do state clearly all board prices. The Black Burst is included
>on the master output card. 8x4 Audio Sub-Systems are $1,495 for unbalanced,
>$1,795 balanced.
Dealers do but Play does not.
>The Audio System interfaces with Preditor, the timeline editing software.
>It alows you to do Audio Fades, ramp up and down, balance, EQ, and more.
I would hope it does EQ and ramping up at least, its not $1495-$1795
for
nothing right? You don't get any fancy audio software for your $$$
though, its
very basic.
>>In Play's own words "We are fixing many of the digital
>>video effects that have pop & glitch errors during playback."
>I have never heard those words from Play the company, they may have come
>from a Play Dealer, I don't know. We have not experienced any of these. It
>sound like the Trinity you got your demo on was not properly synced on all
>inputs. In that case you will see a flash before digital effects, and a
>line through some video.
Would you like a FAX where Play stated it on their own stationary?
>Yes, but if you want your talent to be reflected in some object in your
>virtual set, that's where the Trinity's Warp Engine comes into play.
Can you demostrate this feature? The dealer thats been in business for
10
years where I got my demo could not.
>The current Preditor also supports a separate Down Stream Key channel, which
>can be oporating at the same time that real-time wipes are happening.
>Future upgrades to the software will support more real time layers
Just like I said the Trinity currently does not layer 8 streams of
video even
though Play says it does at . Play has no release date for this feature.
I too
could say I am making a product that does 1000 layers in real-time,
however
that will be a future upgrade.
Plays words on their website today "Trinity's Preditor is a next
generation
non-linear / linear video editor built for speed and ease of use. Using
Trinity's powerful hardware, all operations happen in
real-time, including compositing up to eight video clips and digital
audio
tracks simultaneously."
>>The non-linear part of Preditor has
>>no shipping date and costs extra even though Play says it's included in
>>the
>>$4,995.
>
>The Linear and Non-Linear editing software and RS-422 deck control are
>include in the $4,995. Decks for linear editing, and hard drive storage for
>non-linear are a separate purchase.
The Non-Linear software is not included, the Trinity does not currently
do
N.L.E!!! If the software were included then it would have this feature
don't
you think? If you used a piece of software that said it included an
option to
save your work would you expect to be able to save?
>Not the fault of Trinity. Preditor works fine with RS-422 decks. Perhaps
>the dealer was wraping back past 24:59:59 in the Time code, or ...?
Perhaps it does not work well with all decks.
>>Why can't Play use Trinity to produce their own demo video which has been
used on their website for >>over two years? If they, the designers and
developers, can't make a video with it, how will
>>you?
>
>Trinity's new one hour end-user video will premiere at NAB this week.
>Dealers will soon have copies, and it will ship with new systems.
So it only took TWO YEARS for Play to produce their own video with
Trinity
and its still not avail, how wonderful.
>Sorry, you got such a poor demo.
The Trinity is not what Play claims it is, maybe one day it will be or
maybe
not. People should not buy a product based on what it will do in the
FUTURE.
They should buy it based on what it does TODAY. The fact that the only
bad
responce that was posted to my review of the product was from a Vangard
Trinity Dealer that wants to sell lots of Trinity systems and make lots
of $$$
off of the poor unsuspecting customer proves my point even more. I did
give
Play a little slack and did not report all of the negatives about the
product
I found. If you wish Don I can go on about the many bad points about
Trinity.
ROBERT C. LANG
I cross posted the Trinity Review that was on the list a few days ago.
The following is a response (one of several) that I got by private
E-mail:
Heya...
I just wanted to applaud you on your review of Trinity. I'm glad
that
finally someone can see through the Play marketing. I'm a former Play
employee and as such I can recognize many of their, well, lies is the
only
word to use. I found your comment about Titlewave being the most stable
component interesting. That part of the software was actually contracted
out to another company, so "Play" didn't even write that themselves. (In
fact,
while I worked there, Titlewave was the most unstable component.) Also,
none of the software uses the 20 custom chips inside the box to do
things like
render, etc. Personal-FX and Panamation will actually run without a
Trinity
with no loss of performance.
In my opinion, the only reason Play shipped Trinity was that they
could
not go to NAB for the 4th (5th?) year in a row and say Trinity is "just
about to ship any week now". They would have lost _all_ possible
credibility.
PS: If you use any of this information in posts or whatnot, I would
appreciate it if you did not use my name. Play is a very sue-happy
place,
and I don't especially want them taking me to court. Thanks!
Rod Young
> > I misunderstood nothing, Trinity is a moving target because it is not done.
> Anyone that buys one from Don James is an unpaid betatester. Thats
> right, Don
> James is a Vantage Trinity dealer, he has everything to gain to promote
> Trinity, it pays his bills. He would like nothing more than to sell
> everyone a
> Trinity system, more $$$ for the Computer Room.
Just to be fair, Don sells them all. Including Fast and the Toaster.
Jim Wiseman
I can only reiterate Don James' response. This is not a review of
the product I have been using since receiving it more than 2 months ago.
(Yes we are the dealer in Hawaii). Sure, there have been some problems,
but the dealers were doing the final beta testing of the product and
some bugs were expected to show up. Certainly nothing like the instances
described in this "review". 80,000 people saw Trinity with their own
eyes at NAB in Las Vegas last week, and problems like this would have
been pretty obvious. The demos were done on real Trinities with release
software, not on "dummies" or with canned scripts to hide defects. I
have been involved in video production since 1970 with the first Sony
Portapacks and this is the most amazing product I have ever seen and
will revoutionize the industry. It will only mature and get better.
Jim Wiseman
DigitalMedia Hawaii/Pacific
Sparky
ROBERT C. LANG wrote:
>
> I inadvertently failed to post the Soothsayers entire response:
>
> Don James" <d...@computerroom.com> writes:
> >222 3734 <6g6cq9$a8l$1...@client2.news.psi.net>
> >Thanks for posting Soothsayer's review.
> >He must have gotten a pretty poor demo, or misunderstood a lot.
> >The following are a few corrections.
>
> I misunderstood nothing, Trinity is a moving target because it is not
Could you get any more clueless? Obviously you work for a competitor of
Play Inc. The fact that you will not divulge where you work proves this.
Ed Bennett
Sparky wrote:
> Soothsayer wrote:
> > I misunderstood nothing, Trinity is a moving target because it is not
>
> Could you get any more clueless? Obviously you work for a competitor of
> Play Inc. The fact that you will not divulge where you work proves this.
I think you nailed it with this conclusion. To me most of the comments
sound pretty ignorant about the industry in general. Like when he said
that nobody sells a linear system without NLE any more. "Soothsayer" is
clueless enough to be a real live Toaster/Flyer fanatic.
--
Ed Bennett
e...@primenet.com
Visit my web site: http://www.primenet.com/~ejb
Sparky
Ed Bennett wrote:
>
> Sparky wrote:
> > Soothsayer wrote:
> > > I misunderstood nothing, Trinity is a moving target because it is not
> >
> > Could you get any more clueless? Obviously you work for a competitor of
> > Play Inc. The fact that you will not divulge where you work proves this.
>
> I think you nailed it with this conclusion. To me most of the comments
> sound pretty ignorant about the industry in general. Like when he said
> that nobody sells a linear system without NLE any more. "Soothsayer" is
> clueless enough to be a real live Toaster/Flyer fanatic.
>
> --
> Ed Bennett
> e...@primenet.com
>
> Visit my web site: http://www.primenet.com/~ejb
Oh my! Ed Bennett agrees with me. The world must be comming to an end.
sparky
Ed Bennett
Sparky wrote:
> Oh my! Ed Bennett agrees with me. The world must be comming to an end.
Welcome to the real world Sparky! I'll agree with anyone that I think
is right! I won't give blanket agreement with someone just because we
share an ideology.
ROBERT C. LANG
ct: Re: O Hand Trinity Review
From: Ed Bennett <e...@primenet.com>
Date: 1998/04/20
Message-ID: <353B76...@primenet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.video.desktop
>I think you nailed it with this conclusion. To me most of the comments
>sound pretty ignorant about the industry in general. Like when he said
>that nobody sells a linear system without NLE any more.
Ed if you go back to the original post I said "no-one sells a Video
Editing system without NLE anymore". I never said a linear system
without NLE. I should have been more detailed though, when I said this I
was referring to FAST, D-Vision, NewTek, AVID, Media 100 etc. I never
said Grass Valley, you did. There are some great high-end linear systems
available but they were not in the scope of my original Trinity review.
Why? because the Trinity could not hope to have the features or power of
some of the great products from Grass Valley, Quantel etc.
>"Soothsayer" is clueless enough to be a real live Toaster/Flyer
fanatic.
I owned an Amiga long ago. In my article I talk about the Video
Toaster but I also talk about AVID, Discreet Logic, and other none Amiga
companies. The article reviewed the hype surrounding the Trinity system
vs the reality of that product. My review was not about the Video
Toaster. The only reason it was bought up is because PLAY Inc. claims
they are the next Amiga/NewTek. But since you brought it up what do you
have against the Amiga anyway? Gateway 2000 & its millions of users will
decide its fate no you or I. Even though I don't currently have an Amiga
system (I got out of that market when Commodore went bankrupt in 1994).
I think it is amazing that here it is four years later and new Amiga's
are still being sold and now go 300Mhz. I may buy an Amiga again because
lots of new cool apps are coming out for it like Elastic Dreams, Tornado
3D, Art Studio, Draw Studio, ImageFX 3.0, Photogenics Ng, PlayableTV and
many more. Does this mean that the Amiga replaces a Flame or Inferno
system, of course not but those products are $200,000 or more.
By the way you have a cool website, I never knew until I went there
that you are an inventor. The smartest and most interesting people are
always inventors and give society new and innovated products to enhanced
their lives and enjoy. Best of luck with your TS-Aligner invention and
others, please keep it up.
Till Next Time
Soothsayer
Ed Bennett
"Soothsayer" wrote:
> Ed if you go back to the original post I said "no-one sells a Video
> Editing system without NLE anymore". I never said a linear system
> without NLE. I should have been more detailed though, when I said this I
> was referring to FAST, D-Vision, NewTek, AVID, Media 100 etc. I never
> said Grass Valley, you did. There are some great high-end linear systems
> available but they were not in the scope of my original Trinity review.
> Why? because the Trinity could not hope to have the features or power of
> some of the great products from Grass Valley, Quantel etc.
Yes, you're right. You didn't say "linear", just "video editing system". I'm
still not sure what you meant. Linear systems are "video editing systems". I
can't really think of a way to interpret what you said without coming to the
conclusion that you thought everyone selling a video editing system includes NLE
with it. "No-one" isn't a good term to use in describing a handful of specific
companies that specialize in NLE. None of the companies that you list offer a
video system without NLE (at least as an option). But they are not everyone.
And if you limit your statement to only those companies that offer NLE video
editing systems, then it becomes an absurd statement:
"No companies that specialize in NLE sell video editing systems without NLE
anymore"
See what I mean? Was there ever a time when companies that specialize in NLE
didn't offer NLE with their video editing systems? I don't think so. Now
perhaps you see why it appears like a pretty "clueless" statement. You can
probably see why this "explanation" that you offer also seems pretty rediculous.
>
> >"Soothsayer" is clueless enough to be a real live Toaster/Flyer
> fanatic.
>
> I owned an Amiga long ago. In my article I talk about the Video
> Toaster but I also talk about AVID, Discreet Logic, and other none Amiga
> companies. The article reviewed the hype surrounding the Trinity system
> vs the reality of that product. My review was not about the Video
> Toaster. The only reason it was bought up is because PLAY Inc. claims
> they are the next Amiga/NewTek.
Whether you intended to or not, your article turned out to be a slam against the
Trinity. It wasn't even handed and in many ways it wasn't accurate. People
with real experience on the Trinity had no trouble pointing out lots of errors
and their points went mostly un-addressed.
> But since you brought it up what do you
> have against the Amiga anyway? Gateway 2000 & its millions of users will
> decide its fate no you or I. Even though I don't currently have an Amiga
> system (I got out of that market when Commodore went bankrupt in 1994).
> I think it is amazing that here it is four years later and new Amiga's
> are still being sold and now go 300Mhz. I may buy an Amiga again because
> lots of new cool apps are coming out for it like Elastic Dreams, Tornado
> 3D, Art Studio, Draw Studio, ImageFX 3.0, Photogenics Ng, PlayableTV and
> many more. Does this mean that the Amiga replaces a Flame or Inferno
> system, of course not but those products are $200,000 or more.
I don't have anything at all against the Amiga. I do have trouble with Amiga
"fanatics" always putting down the rest of the computer business and then
pretending to be persecuted for being different. They are mostly annoying,
ignorant, and stupid people that just love to pick fights. There are many
current and past Amiga owners that aren't Amiga "fanatics". They are generally
pleasant, intelligent, well informed people that don't have a persecution
complex and don't go around putting down the entire computer industry.
If the Amiga makes a comeback (a BIG "IF") then you can be sure that it will not
be because it is just a faster version of 1980's technology attempting to defy
the standards and conventions of the entire computer industry. If it's not 100%
PC/Windows compatible, then it will die. I have no idea what Gateway is doing
with the Amiga but their market share and stock value speaks volumes about what
they are doing to themselves. It's not just my opinion that they are making
some very big mistakes.
As far as "cool apps" on the Amiga go, they don't even begin to approach those
that are not on the Amiga. The Amiga has absolutely nothing on the rest of the
industry. There is nothing that I would want to do on an Amiga that I can't do
better (much much better) on a PC or a Mac. There is absolutely no compelling
reason (except nostalgia) to waste money on an Amiga, even if it ran at 3000
MHz.
> By the way you have a cool website, I never knew until I went there
> that you are an inventor. The smartest and most interesting people are
> always inventors and give society new and innovated products to enhanced
> their lives and enjoy. Best of luck with your TS-Aligner invention and
> others, please keep it up.
Thanks for the compliment (flattery). In all truth, it's actually a very basic
web site with little artistic value and no fancy bells and whistles (what can
you do with 5 MB?). I enjoy inventing and seeing people benefit from my ideas.
The TS-Aligner products are very successful and have kept me quite busy during
the last couple of years.
Ed Bennett
e...@primenet.com
ROBERT C. LANG
The following is a post from the Soothsayer in response to Ed Bennett.
I, Robert C. Lang, am not the Soothsayer.
Whether you intended to or not, your article turned out to be a slam
against the
>Trinity. It wasn't even handed and in many ways it wasn't accurate.
My review was about what Play Inc. claims the Trinity is vs what you
get in the shipping product. Anyone can read for
themselves what Plays tells you the Trinity is at www.play.com. This is
very different than what you get when you buy this
system. I had hoped myself that the Trinity would turn out better. Maybe
they will fix it and change their misleading marketing.
>People with real experience on the Trinity had no trouble pointing out
lots of errors
>and their points went mostly un-addressed.
such as?
>If the Amiga makes a comeback (a BIG "IF") then you can be sure that it
will not
>be because it is just a faster version of 1980's technology attempting
to defy
>the standards and conventions of the entire computer industry.
Todays modern Amiga (have you seen one?) uses PowerPC CPU's & Motorola
68060 CPU's in parallel on the same
card with an Ultrawide SCSI controller & Permedia 2 graphics card slot.
The Permedia 2 chipset is fantastic on the PC and has sold very well.
Its a great chipset on Windows or the Amiga see
http://www.vgr.com/cvppc/ for more information. Todays Amiga is not from
the 80's, it uses the best of modern technology. Even an inexpensive
Amiga 1200 (it's cost $299) can have PowerPC & Permedia 2 added to it.
How long has it been since you have used an Amiga? Have you ever used
one? What year?
>If it's not 100% PC/Windows compatible, then it will die. I have no
idea what Gateway is doing
>with the Amiga but their market share and stock value speaks volumes about what
>they are doing to themselves. It's not just my opinion that they are making
>some very big mistakes.
Where have you been? You can already integrate the Amiga with Windows
today with the Siamese system http://www.siamese.co.uk/ this product has
been out for over two years and fully integrates Windows and the Amiga.
You can do some very interesting things when you merge these two
machines. This year an Amiga on a card for the PC is coming out. That
will be a very interesting product for Windows users, info is at
http://www.cix.co.uk/~index/inout.htm. You must not keep up with your
stocks because Gateway 2000's stock is twice the amount of Apple's and
continues to rise. Surf to
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,21399,00.html
>As far as "cool apps" on the Amiga go, they don't even begin to approach those
>that are not on the Amiga. The Amiga has absolutely nothing on the rest of the
>industry. There is nothing that I would want to do on an Amiga that I can't do
>better (much much better) on a PC or a Mac. There is absolutely no compelling
>reason (except nostalgia) to waste money on an Amiga, even if it ran at 3000
>MHz.
Do you make it a habit to talk about applications that you have never
used or seen? Elastic Dreams just came out so I doubt that you have seen
it. If you have not seen or used a certain application on any computer
you should not comment about it, you should just say sorry I have not
used that program. Also have you used Tornado 3D, Art Studio,
ImageVision, Playable Television, WildFire, Candy Factory, ImageFX 3.1,
Photogenics Ng, TV Paint 3.6, Andorage 3.0, Draco Video Editing system,
Casiblanca editing system, Access, WonderTV, XDVE 3.0, Wordsworth Office
7.0, Pyromania Classics Amiga version and many more. Lets not forget
the over 40,000 PD applications avail on AMINET where new programmers
showcase their talent. If someone has not used a modern Amiga with the
newest apps they could not hope to comment on the capabilty of that
computerUsing a computer is about what applications you want to run.
>Thanks for the compliment (flattery). In all truth, it's actually a very basic
>web site with little artistic value and no fancy bells and whistles (what can
>you do with 5 MB?). I enjoy inventing and seeing people benefit from my ideas.
>The TS-Aligner products are very successful and have kept me quite busy during
>the last couple of years.
What I liked was the products, I always like to see inventions that
others have created themselves, it does not always take a huge
corporation to create cool products. Will you be inventing more cool
tech toys?
All the best
Soothsayer
FX
On Sun, 26 Apr 1998 20:45:56 -0700, "ROBERT C. LANG" <lan...@pacbell.net>
wrote:
>The following is a post from the Soothsayer in response to Ed Bennett.
>I, Robert C. Lang, am not the Soothsayer.
>
<SNIP>
> Do you make it a habit to talk about applications that you have never
>used or seen?
All the time. The last time he saw an A/T/F system was 94, and it is obvious
from all the stupid questions he has asked about it, he wasn't paying attention
at the time. And of course this posting just adds more proof to what I have
been saying.
Now as I have mentioned in many previous postings, he is IBM trained, worked on
early versions of that machine, and is very knowledgable in that machine. He
has much to offer the group, on that particular subject. But back in 94 he made
a decision that the Amiga is dead, and stoped following it, except in trying to
find ways to discredit it.
FX
> All the best
>
>Soothsayer
To Reply remove the AnitSPAM (-)
-----------------------------------------
P.J.Nordmann - FX
Non Linear Editing, Animations and Graphics
Amiga/Toaster/Flyer Training.
Editor for Aqua Fantasies www.aquafan.com
and inventor of vidcap spam.
-----------------------------------------
Ed Bennett
ROBERT C. LANG wrote:
>
> The following is a post from the Soothsayer in response to Ed Bennett.
> I, Robert C. Lang, am not the Soothsayer.
>
<snip the blah, blah, blah>
Sorry "Soothsayer", based on your reply I have decided to consider you
to be an "Amiga Fanatic". I'm not interested in being dragged into a
stupid argument about the Amiga. I, like 99.9% of the computer market,
have absolutely no interest in the Amiga. I have even less interest
arguing with you about it. This will be my final reply.
The only thing surprising about the statements you made is the extent of
your exaggeration. The only reason Motorola 68K series processors are
still in production is because HP buys them by the hundreds of thousands
to use as a embedded printer controllers in their lowest end ("L" class)
LaserJet Printers. Dual processors have been in use in PCs with
operating system support for almost 10 years. The "Power PC" processor
is struggling at best (surviving mostly because of Apple's commitment).
It only recently challenged the Pentium processor, and then only for a
very short time. When Merced is released the Power PC processor will be
in big trouble.
As far as the Trinity goes, I agree 100% with you that Play is extremely
deceptive in their marketing. Fine. But, your article still came
across to me as being written by someone looking to find fault. It did
not impress me as being written by someone hoping that Trinity was
better that it is. Your "nobody sells a video editing system without
NLE today" statement is a prime example of taking a cheap (and pretty
stupid) shot at the Trinity.
Finally, the Amiga Siamese is hardware/software that plugs into the PC,
not an Amiga that is compatible with the rest of the world. As for the
long list of Amiga apps that you listed, I see absolutely none that
perform functions that I would want to do that aren't performed much
much better on a PC or Mac. Draco, by the way, isn't an Amiga
application. You cannot install it into an Amiga. It may contain some
embedded Amiga based hardware designs, but it is not an Amiga
application.
Yes, I know that Amiga OS has been ported to the Power PC and is being
ported to the Alpha processor and that there is development on a new
version. But, with little more than 1000 attendees (including
exhibitors and hotel staff!) to the Amiga 98 convention, I just can't
take it seriously. Geez, there are more than 100 times that many people
that attend Comdex and CeBit is even bigger! Safe Harbor tossed a copy
of some underground Amiga magazine into my last order (I guess that
there are so many people that want to buy this magazine that they have
to throw them into boxes with the orders of people that don't give a
damn). It has interviews and articles with top Amiga Inc. officials and
other leading developers. The impression I received: "We've got plans
but we don't dare attempt to implement them. We're just trying to keep
the Amiga alive and work on getting the basics in order right now. We
can't say what we're planning or how long it will take."
That's all I'm going to say. These are my "opinions". I don't care if
they are right or wrong or if you disagree with them or not. You're not
going to drag me into some stupid Amiga fight.
Ed Bennett
FX wrote:
<snip the ignorant blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah>
There goes yet another stupid lame promise to "go away forever"! I
predict that before this year's out, old Nordmann will promise that he's
leaving the group forever at least five more times! If only he had
something intelligent to say, or at least something that wasn't so
incredibly stupid.
ROBERT C. LANG
>
>
> >
> > The following is a post on behalf of the Soothsayer in response to Ed Bennett.
> > I, Robert C. Lang, am not the Soothsayer.
> >
>
>to be an "Amiga Fanatic". I'm not interested in being dragged into a
>stupid argument about the Amiga. I, like 99.9% of the computer market,
>have absolutely no interest in the Amiga. I have even less interest
>arguing with you about it. This will be my final reply.
Why am I suddenly an Amiga Fanatic to you? Because a pointed out that
you should not talk about modern Amiga software/hardware that you have
never used or seen? Because I stated that the Permedia 2 chipset is a
great graphics chipset that is available on the PC & Amiga. Ed you said
"As far as "cool apps" on the Amiga go, they don't even begin to
approach those that are not on the Amiga. The Amiga has absolutely
nothing on the rest of the industry. There is nothing that I would want
to do on an Amiga that I can't do better (much much better) on a PC or a
Mac." How can you justify this statement if you have not used a modern
Amiga & modern Amiga software? You can't, you have not used a modern
Amiga.
>The only thing surprising about the statements you made is the extent
of your exaggeration. The only reason Motorola 68K >series processors
are still in production is because HP buys them by the hundreds of
thousands to use as a embedded printer >controllers in their lowest end
("L" class) LaserJet Printers. Dual processors have been in use in PCs
with operating system >support for almost 10 years. The "Power PC"
processor is struggling at best (surviving mostly because of Apple's
>commitment). It only recently challenged the Pentium processor, and
then only for a very short time.
What does this mean? 68060 & PowerPC chips still work in modern
Amiga's. I am not debating that HP buys them or that Apple is
struggling.
> When Merced is released the Power PC processor will be in big trouble.
So now you have to bring up a vaporware chip that not avail to make
your point? How much software is avail for Merced today, you guessed it
0%. When its available we will see how the market reacts.
>As far as the Trinity goes, I agree 100% with you that Play is
extremely
>deceptive in their marketing.
Thank you, that was the point of my article.
>Finally, the Amiga Siamese is hardware/software that plugs into the PC,
not an Amiga that is compatible with the rest of the >world.
Sorry to dissappoint you but your wrong, the current Siamese 2.5 system
that is shipping requires a real Amiga and a real Windows 95 machine.
The PCI Amiga card is not avail yet. Just goes to show that you have
never seen or used it.
> As for the long list of Amiga apps that you listed, I see absolutely
none that perform functions that I would want to do that >aren't
performed much much better on a PC or Mac.
Unless you have seen and used all of the hardware/software I mention
how could you possibly know what functions they perform? Better for you
to say that you have not used them instead of embarrasse yourself
talking about products you have never seen. I spent over 50 hours on the
Trinity before I reviewed it. How much time have you spent on a new
Amiga system? Are you now commenting on how good software & hardware is
by its name alone?
> Draco, by the way, isn't an Amiga application. You cannot install it
into an Amiga. It may contain some embedded Amiga >based hardware
designs, but it is not an Amiga application.
The Draco is a machine that runs the Amiga OS and most new Amiga
software. You can install the VLAB motion & the Retina ZIII into a real
Amiga, the Draco is based on the designs of these products.
>That's all I'm going to say. These are my "opinions". I don't care if
>they are right or wrong or if you disagree with them or not. You're
not
>going to drag me into some stupid Amiga fight.
Good idea, don't talk about products you have not used, be it Amiga, PC
or Mac.
Hope I was not to harsh.
Soothsayer
Tony
Ed Bennett wrote:
> Sorry "Soothsayer", based on your reply I have decided to consider you
> to be an "Amiga Fanatic". I'm not interested in being dragged into a
> stupid argument about the Amiga. I, like 99.9% of the computer
> market, have absolutely no interest in the Amiga. I have even less
> interest arguing with you about it. This will be my final reply.
If you have no interest in the Amiga market, then why the constant
messages to anything Amiga based? As for you not wanting to argue, then
stay out of the kitchen. You make false and blatant statements about
products that you have NO knowledge about, yet try to
psuedo-intellectualzie it with words like you actually know what you are
talking about. And then, when corrected, you look for something else to
find fault with. You have nothing positive to say about the computer or
it's users that have taken you to task on your false statements. Sorry
Ed, don't make wrong statements. Glad this is your final reply.
Considering everything Soothsayer was talking about was the Trinity, you
seem to have missed the mark here thinking that because the the comments
weren't positive, he MUST be an Amiga fanatic.
Ed Bennett
"Soothsayer" wrote:
> Why am I suddenly an Amiga Fanatic to you? Because a pointed out that
> you should not talk about modern Amiga software/hardware that you have
> never used or seen? Because I stated that the Permedia 2 chipset is a
> great graphics chipset that is available on the PC & Amiga.
No. I consider you to be an "Amgia Fanatic" because you have directed
the entire topic of conversation away from video editing and away from
the Trinity and focused it entirely on the Amiga and trying to expose
everything I don't know about it. In my opinion, you are an Amiga
Fanatic because you are on the offensive, agressivly trying to pick a
fight over the Amiga. You've lost all perspective of what group you are
in and what the topic of the thread was. In addition, you insist on
remaining anonymous just like any other radical fanatic (likely because
if people really knew who you were you would lose all credibility).
So, I don't care if I'm right or wrong about anything having to do with
the Amiga. I refuse to let you bait me into a stupid (really STUPID)
argument over what I consider to be a really stupid computer that I have
absolutely no interest in whatsoever. If you don't like my opinion of
the Amiga then that's just too damn bad, learn to live with it.
Myron Achtman
Ed Bennett <e...@primenet.com> wrote:
>So, I don't care if I'm right or wrong about anything having to do with
>the Amiga. I refuse to let you bait me into a stupid (really STUPID)
>argument over what I consider to be a really stupid computer that I have
>absolutely no interest in whatsoever. If you don't like my opinion of
>the Amiga then that's just too damn bad, learn to live with it.
Ed, there's no such thing as a "really stupid computer." However,
there are certainly some really stupid people who use computers.
Best regards,
Myron B. Achtman
Vice President
ADITA Video Inc.
To reply by email, remove anti-spam- from our address
to obtain ad...@adita.com
Please visit us at http://www.adita.com
Leebo
On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:26:00 -0600, Ed Bennett <e...@primenet.com>
wrote:
I don't want to
>discuss the Amiga and I don't want annoying Amiga Fanatics bugging me
>about it. I have far better things to do.
>
>--
>Ed Bennett
>e...@primenet.com
>
Good thing you don't want to discuss the Amiga. Wonder what I just
spent the last 15 minutes reading, though.