Information
Richard Ferguson
Welcome to REC.TRAVEL.LATIN-AMERICA.
Friends of travel and 'aficionados' of Latin America,
This is a semi-regular posting to the unmoderated newsgroup
rec.travel.latin-america. This newsgroup provides an electronic
conferencing system for the Mexican, Central American, and South American
travel community on the Internet.
This forum is for Latin American related travel queries,
recommendations, information and articles on Latin American exploration.
Travelers are welcome and encouraged to browse, read, question, post
articles, updates, journals, and use this newsgroup within these
guidelines to their maximum advantage. Enthusiasm, realism,reason and
courtesy are appreciated.
PURPOSE
This newsgroup's sole purpose is to be the non commercial venue for
lively exchange of travel related information and cross-cultural
communications about one of the most fascinating places in the world,
Latin America! This is a usage guidelines document. Please read before
posting to rec.travel.latin-america.
TOPICS
This newsgroup is for travelers and explorers. The main topic and
dominant subject feature is Latin American travel. Discussions may
include other interests (culture, archaeology, architecture, ethnology,
photography, history, geology, politics, diving, mountain climbing, arts,
music, cuisine, ecology, ornothology, etc.,) as subordinate sub topics.
Those with specific historical, social, ethnic, cultural and other
interests are directed to
(soc.history.latin-america, soc.culture.latin america, alt.architecture,
sci.archaeology.mesoamerican, rec.scuba.locations etc.) groups
specifically emphasizing those subjects as curriculums rather than
travel. Commercial and advertising sub-topics, posts, and re-posts are
entirely off topic and not permitted.
NO ADVERTISING!
This newsgroup allows Latin American travelers to share experience and
ideas and help one another - much like we do on the road. This is NOT a
forum for advertising, solicitations, services, and commercial interests.
Such posts are NOT welcome! There is nothing wrong with commerce and
advertising, this just isn't the place for it. If you have a product,
property, rental, or a tour, please post your message in
rec.travel.marketplace or other locations. Whether it is 'wanted to buy,
hire or rent,' or 'for sale, lease, or trade,' this group is not the
location for marketplace transactions. Travel agents, publishers,
realtors, distributors, retailers of goods and services, travel related
or otherwise, this is not the correct location for your posts and
unsolicited advertisements. Post to your group: rec.travel.marketplace.
The objective of our newsgroup is to disseminate information regarding
travel in Latin America. The purpose of messages is to share travel
information, not sell products or services. While these can be mentioned
in a post, the sale itself should not be the primary reason for putting
the message onto this newsgroup. Consider this newsgroup a running
dialogue of questions, answers and commentary. Often the answer to a
question will be a particular destination, product or service. As you
also find on your travels, it's helpful to have this information. But you
don't want to be accosted by total strangers who yell "BUCKET AIRFARES TO
GUATEMALA!" and then disappear into a dark alley.
Please be respectful of the dialogue. Share topical information and
contacts for further information, but never make commerce or
advertisement the reason for posting to this group.
INAPPROPRIATE POSTS
Inappropriate posts such as commercial or off topic posts, multiple
posts, cross posting to multiple newsgroups, spamming, unsolicited
advertisements, foul language, or innuendoes that are disrespectful of
the other users or people and nations in this mega-region are prohibited.
Violators of courtesy and netiquette may find themselves bombarded by e-
mail and flames from the supporters of rec.travel.latin-america. Please
practice thoughtful, considerate and courteous behavior. Posters are not
to cross-post articles between rec.travel.latin-america and other
newsgroups. Single post your article to this location to limit the
'thread drift' that takes place between various subject matter groups,
the diverging responses and dialogues that then ensue in both locations
add to 'noise and clutter. As a consequence, spamming and multiple posts
are not permitted.
RESPONDING TO INAPPROPRIATE POSTS:
Off topic responses are also off-topic and add clutter to the newsgroup.
Please direct comments to the original poster and/or their responders via
e-mail. Avoid depositing additional garbage and attracting flies. Users
of the newsgroup are encouraged to 'diplomatically' police the newsgroup
to retain it's value as active asset to Latin American travel
aficionados.
GENERAL GUIDELINES FOR POSTING TO REC.TRAVEL.LATIN-AMERICA
Before you post an article to rec.travel.latin america, stop to consider
if another subgroup of rec.travel such as the following would be more
appropriate instead.
PLACES: rec.travel.africa, rec.travel.asia, rec.travel.australia+nz,
rec.travel.caribbean, rec.travel.europe, rec.travel.usa-canada,
rec.travel.misc (travel in areas or on topics not specified above or
below).
MODES: rec.travel.air, rec.travel.cruises, rec.travel.resorts,
rec.travel.resorts.all-inclusive, rec.travel.bed+breakfast.
FOR SALE, FOR RENT & WANTED TO RENT OR BUY: rec.travel.marketplace or try
the biz.* hierarchies instead.
OTHER: misc.kids.vacation, rec.backcountry, rec.outdoors.camping,
rec.outdoors.rv-travel, rec.scuba.locations, others.
If there is a rec.travel.foobar, for instance, all discussion of foobar
should take place there rather than in rec.travel.latin-america.
Posters are not to cross-post articles (list multiple newsgroups
on the Newsgroups: header line) between rec.travel.latin america and
other newsgroups. Single post your article to this location to limit
'thread drift.' Spamming is not a considerate practice. THIS MEANS THAT:
if you want to post a question or article about travel in general or in
Asia, Europe, the USA, Canada, Caribbean, Africa, Oceania, Australia or
New Zealand, Antarctica DON'T POST HERE. If you want to post a question
or article about air travel or cruises, DON'T POST HERE. If you are
conducting a survey, selling tickets, coupons, renting property, rooms,
selling travel services or marketing anything travel related or
otherwise, DON'T POST HERE. Use the appropriate newsgroup, and DON'T
CROSSPOST TO rec.travel.latin-america.
This newsgroup is a bulletin board for shared information and is not
intended for communication from one person to another. That doesn't mean
that the posters or senders name should not be used, what it does mean
that if one person wants to communicate with another person, email should
be used.
Test messages should not be posted to this newsgroup. Test posters are
advised to use alt.test, misc.test or other test sites.
OTHER TRAVEL NEWSGROUPS:
Charters for other rec.travel.* newsgroups can be obtained by anonymous
ftp to ftp.uu.net in the directory /usenet/news.announce.newgroups/rec/
under the newsgroup's name.
ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/rec/rec.travel.latin-america
WEBSITE LINKS:
A collection of links, pertinent to travel in Latin America may be found
at: http://copan.bioz.unibas.ch/meso/travellinks.html
READ THE FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS LISTS
Some groups maintain a list of frequently asked questions (called a FAQ),
which the groups post periodically (generally once a month). Always read
a group's FAQ before posting any questions to the group. Quite often,
your question has been asked before (possibly many times), and asking it
again won't generate any new information.
There is some excellent and highly recommended information summarizing
how to best and most appropriately enjoy and utilize newsgroups & usenet
in the newsgroup 'news.announce.newusers'
FEEDBACK:
If you don't wish to see this article again, put the subject line, which
will never change (after the final form is hashed out!), in your kill
file. For instructions on kill files for your newsreader, OR if your
system doesn't get any of the rec.travel subgroups, talk to your system
administrator.
If you have comments or suggestions on how to make this periodic post
more useful, please email: Michael Swigart, swi...@intelligencia.com.
More information about the formation of this group, history and purpose
is available in the occasional post to rec.travel.latin-america titled:
'Statement of Purpose.'
MEMORIUM: This newsgroup was co-founded by BRAD MARTIN,
Brad Martin, hond...@aol.com, who passed away October 25, 1996. The
Aficionados miss him and respect his memory.
888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
Note that rec.travel.latin-america does not have a FAQ. We were
going to start one, but it was too big a job. RAF
The newsgroup was created in 1995, for more information read
ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/rec/rec.travel.latin-america
manag...@bigfindonline.om wrote:
>
> Would someone be kind enough to tell us the guidelines, or tell us
> where we might review the guidelines for posting in this newgroup?
>
> Thank you.
>
> manag...@bigfindonline.com
Technobarbarian
"Richard Ferguson" <rafer...@att.net> wrote in message
news:3D0FD29F...@att.net...
> GUIDELINES FOR POSTING - rec.travel.latin-america
> to cross-post articles between rec.travel.latin-america and other
> newsgroups. Single post your article to this location to limit the
> 'thread drift' that takes place between various subject matter groups,
> the diverging responses and dialogues that then ensue in both locations
> add to 'noise and clutter. As a consequence, spamming and multiple posts
> are not permitted.
Would you care to explain under what authority you are establishing
these rules? Your self-important dictates are really quite annoying as you
have no basis for some of this stuff other than your personal opinion.
TB
Yves Bellefeuille
> Would someone be kind enough to tell us the guidelines, or tell us
> where we might review the guidelines for posting in this newgroup?
On one hand, I should congratulate you for asking about guidelines
before posting; on the other hand, if you have to ask, you probably
shouldn't do what you're apparently planning to do.
For general guidelines on Usenet netiquette, please see:
* Welcome to Usenet!
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/welcome/part1/
* Rules for posting to Usenet
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/posting-rules/part1/
* Hints on writing style for Usenet
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/writing-style/part1/
* A Primer on How to Work With the Usenet Community
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/primer/part1/
* Emily Postnews Answers Your Questions on Netiquette
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/emily-postnews/part1/
* Advertising on Usenet: How To Do It, How Not To Do It
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/advertising/how-to/part1/
For Usenet FAQs in general, please see:
For the rec.travel.europe FAQ in particular, please see:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/travel/europe/faq
Posted and mailed.
--
Yves Bellefeuille <y...@storm.ca>, Ottawa, Canada
Francais / English / Esperanto
Esperanto FAQ: http://www.esperanto.net/veb/faq.html
Rec.travel.europe FAQ: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/travel/europe/faq
Louis Gravel
"Technobarbarian" <d_murry-...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:aeol29$8iau0$1...@ID-140828.news.dfncis.de...
I've been reading your posts for years and I would say you are
the veteran on Mexico backcountry travel on this list. From Richard
Fergusson's posts I would also rate him as a veteran of latin travel and
mountain climbing. I will admit he also often sounds like a security freak
who wouldn't do most of the stupid things I do all the time (like taking
overnight busses to save time and hotel money!) I will also admit he is not
totally wrong with his concerns.
Richard's other "thing" is reminding us periodically to keep our
house clean and spam free. And we have been so far, even though we will
always get some "Cancun for rent" crap. I don't know where his often
repeated "Guidelines" copy comes from and I don't read it anymore but I
think it helps and we should give the guy some slack. And where else but on
that list of security URLs would I get the US State Department's opinion of
where the commies are hiding.
Cheers and happy RVing to you from an envious tramper,
Louisg
Technobarbarian
"Louis Gravel" <lgr...@sover.net> wrote in message
news:1YSP8.27856$rX.51...@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> > Hi Dennis Techno,
> I've been reading your posts for years and I would say you are
> the veteran on Mexico backcountry travel on this list.
Thanks, but I'm a light weight, if I spent as much time in Mexico as I
would like I wouldn't be posting nearly as much.
From Richard
> Fergusson's posts I would also rate him as a veteran of latin travel and
> mountain climbing. I will admit he also often sounds like a security freak
> who wouldn't do most of the stupid things I do all the time (like taking
> overnight busses to save time and hotel money!)
Sometimes the "stupid" things I do are also the most fun and
educational things I do.
I will also admit he is not
> totally wrong with his concerns.
> Richard's other "thing" is reminding us periodically to keep our
> house clean and spam free. And we have been so far, even though we will
> always get some "Cancun for rent" crap. I don't know where his often
> repeated "Guidelines" copy comes from and I don't read it anymore but I
> think it helps and we should give the guy some slack
By my standards I cut Richard a lot of slack because he is a valuable
contributor to this group. BUT, his "Guidelines" are a mixture of usenet
gospel and his own prejudices. Dressing them up to look official just makes
them more annoying in my book and it could backfire. Eventually someone
could get annoyed enough to call down the hounds of hell on this group. If
you haven't seen it, it's not a pretty sight. People with too much time on
their hands looking for "net-kops" to annoy. As these people are annoyed
with the rules of etiquette that the civivilized folks take for granted I
suspect Richard's imaginary rules would really set them off. Groups that
find themselves in these people's sights can be difficult to read and they
have been known to make a few groups completely unusable. Having seen it
elsewhere I can assure you that it's far more annoying and damaging than a
little crossposting.
Personally I wouldn't mind the "Guidelines" if they were identified for
what they are, but telling people how and what to post is extremely
presumptious coming from someone who has no more standing to do so than you
or I. If they were accurate that would be one thing, but they aren't. I
don't care how long Richard has been here. I don't care if he is channeling
the words of the Usenet Gods themselves and has the "Guidelines" inscribed
in gold on his front porch; his "Guidelines" are dishonest and annoying.
There is, for example, no prohibition against crossposting to this group,
except in Richard's imagination. And the next time I start posting trip
reports they will be crossposted to rec.outdoors.rv-travel and this group.
(Unless maybe it's little non-RV tour we're trying to put together for the
Copper Canyon area this fall--in which case I'll crosspost to alt.mexico or
somewhere else just to be crossposting.)
At least the post to this thread with all the links was honest and
represents about as an official summation of the rules as you'll find. I've
had one of the Usenet Gods himself, Jay Denebeim, (no guarantee that I
spelled that right) tell me that the "How to advertise on Usenet FAQ" , for
example, is regarded as about as an official word on the subject as you will
find. If you are ever bored and lacking something to do search through the
newsgroups to see how many groups there are with Jay's last name in them. On
the more complete newsgroup lists there must be dozens. They were set up by
people annoyed with Jay's real standing as one of the Usenet authorities.
Dennis
DontSpamMe!
caribiadigest
"Yves Bellefeuille" <y...@storm.ca> wrote in message
news:3d0feb2...@news.storm.ca...
Richard Ferguson
Dennis/Technobarbarian continues to assert that the guidelines that I
post are mine. This is not correct. The guidelines were written by the
founders of the newsgroup, I am only trying to support them. If I had
written them they would be worded differently. Perhaps Dennis would be
less annoyed with the guidelines if I had written them, I usually write
a little less harshly that the founders.
In the spirit of politeness, I will note that I find Dennis's postings
on Mexico to be very interesting and helpful. I hope to RV in Mexico in
the future, so I share the same interests in RVing and Mexico that
Dennis has.
The issue of cross-posting is one that was discussed around the time of
the founding of the newsgroup. I originally agreed with Dennis's
position that some cross-posting is legitimate. I was overrulled at the
time, but now see the wisdom of the founder's position against
crossposting. Crossposting sometimes produces long threads that range
far from latin-america, even if the original post was related to
latin-america. If you have a report that legitimately related to RVing
and to latin america, it is very little extra trouble to post the
identical text separately, as a separate thread, in each newsgroup.
This prevents the thread from wandering too far from the newsgroup's topic.
Dennis seems to believe that the guidelines could be counterproductive,
that somehow they could bring down the wrath of some very bad people,
apparently real barbarians who one would not want to annoy. I would
note that these guidelines have been posted for more than 5 years, and
have never brought down the wrath of Kahn. Occasionally someone is
annoyed, but it has never been an ongoing problem.
The real purpose of the guidelines is to avoid getting into shouting
matches over whether a particular posting is inappropriate. If you read
the guidelines, it is pretty obvious what is inappropriate or
appropriate. I suspect that Dennis may be unhappy to learn that I send
private emails to inappropriate posters (usually blatantly commercial
posts) with nothing more than a copy of the guidelines. In other words,
I do not say "YOU VIOLATED OUR GUIDELINES", I let them read the
guidelines and come to their own conclusion. We have found over the
years that this way of letting people know about inappropriate posts is
much less likely to produce shouting matches and hostility. Some people
thank me for a copy of the guidelines, a few critize me, most do not reply.
The newsgroup is actually more polite now than when it was founded in
1995. Otherwise it has not changed a great deal in that time. I did an
analysis of a random cross-section of the posts years ago, and most of
the posts then, like today, were legitimate questions about latin
america or real answers to questions about latin america. Commerical
posts continue to be a small fraction of the postings. The good news is
that the group is still active, doing well, and serving the function
that the founders intended.
Richard
Technobarbarian
> A few comments:
>
> Dennis/Technobarbarian continues to assert that the guidelines that I
> post are mine. This is not correct. The guidelines were written by the
> founders of the newsgroup, I am only trying to support them.
Ok, my mistake, as you are the one posting them I had assumed you were
the author. BUT, it makes no matter who wrote them because they are still a
matter of personal opinion rather than having any official standing.
> The issue of cross-posting is one that was discussed around the time of
> the founding of the newsgroup. I originally agreed with Dennis's
> position that some cross-posting is legitimate. I was overrulled at the
> time, but now see the wisdom of the founder's position against
> crossposting.
The way you say "founders" I feel like you should be capitalizing and
genuflecting. Group "founders" have no special rights or authority.
Especially five years ago, finding a hole in usenet that needed filling and
writing the charter was/is no big deal. It took a bit of digging, but here's
the charter, from:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22rec.travel.latin-america%22+charter+rfd
&start=10&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&selm=3ptd9s%24pr3%40rodan.UU.NET&rnum=15
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group rec.travel.latin-america
This RFD (Request For Discussion) is a proposal to create one newsgroup for
travel within the Caribbean, Central and South America.
RATIONALE:
Caribbean, Central and South America are now lumped in incongruously and
unidentifiably [namelessly] with several other major world regions in the
rec.travel.misc. newsgroup. The proposed new group represents an entire
continent and half of North America as well as one of the principal areas of
tourist travel. The designation "misc." has little meaning by itself and
many posters have no idea that this is to designate the leftovers from the
other newsgroups such as, Africa, Caribbean, Central and South America,
Antarctica and the South Pacific. This is in addition to very useful
miscellany that may effect travelers in general such as malarial treatment,
frostbite, altitude sickness and the general traveler information. However
much of the contents of rec.travel.misc are not understood from the
label.
Europe, Asia, U.S., Canada all have their own designated groups. It is felt
that it is time for our area of concern to have its own newsgroup.
Of the one hundred or more postings a day that the newsgroup rec.travel.misc
receives, one in five deal with this region.
CHARTER:
rec.travel.latin-america (unmoderated)
This newsgroup is to be a forum for discussion of all aspects of travel in
the Caribbean, Central and South America, except for advertising, which
will
remain directed to the rec.travel.marketplace newsgroup.
This newsgroup is devoted to travel in the above generalized
region and includes countries such as Mexico, Belize, Guatemala, Honduras,
Nicaragua, Panama, Columbia, Brazil, Paraguay, Cuba, Jamaica, Martinique,
Chile, Barbados, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Haiti, Peru, the Antilles,
Argentina, the Bahamas, Dominican Republic, the West Indies, Trinidad and
Tobago, Tierra del Fuego, etc. and others that are within those areas
characterized as Central America, Latin America, the Caribbean and South
America.
Along with general usenet etiquette, that represents the sum total of
the OFFICIAL guidelines. Do you see any mention of crossposting there? Of
course not, the Usenet Gods don't allow individual groups to opt out of
crossposting. Or, at least, I've never seen a case where they have. You and
the "founders" can rail against crossposting and whatever else you don't
like, but it has NO official standing, zero, sip, nada. The "guidelines"
are a mixture of personal opinion and valid information <period>. If you
feel "overrulled" by some magical power, fine; but, it did not happen or it
would be contained in the charter.
Crossposting sometimes produces long threads that range
> far from latin-america, even if the original post was related to
> latin-america. If you have a report that legitimately related to RVing
> and to latin america, it is very little extra trouble to post the
> identical text separately, as a separate thread, in each newsgroup.
> This prevents the thread from wandering too far from the newsgroup's
topic.
You post as you like. I will post as I like. Telling people to post in
the manner you and the "founders" approve of is extremely presumptuous and
rude.
> Dennis seems to believe that the guidelines could be counterproductive,
> that somehow they could bring down the wrath of some very bad people,
> apparently real barbarians who one would not want to annoy. I would
> note that these guidelines have been posted for more than 5 years, and
> have never brought down the wrath of Kahn. Occasionally someone is
> annoyed, but it has never been an ongoing problem.
I was talking about something I have seen in another group that has
also been around for about 5 years, without problems. Were I of a
particularly unpleasant frame of mind it would be easy enough to use the
"Guidelines" as bait to unloose a particularly unpleasant form of troll on
this group. If I can do it, others can do it. It aint all that hard. Hint:
go searching under: flonk, carl malden's nose, kitty, troll. If you continue
to shove your very unofficial guidelines in people's faces while pretending
that they are gospel eventually you'll find someone pissed enough and savvy
enough to pull that trigger.
> The real purpose of the guidelines is to avoid getting into shouting
> matches over whether a particular posting is inappropriate. If you read
> the guidelines, it is pretty obvious what is inappropriate or
> appropriate.
Appropriate to you and the "founders" only.
I suspect that Dennis may be unhappy to learn that I send
> private emails to inappropriate posters (usually blatantly commercial
> posts) with nothing more than a copy of the guidelines. In other words,
> I do not say "YOU VIOLATED OUR GUIDELINES",
Hopefully, every now and then you send them to someone smart enough to
tell you what to do with them. The sheep who blindly follow when strangers
tell them to are no concern of mine.
TB
Richard
"Yves Bellefeuille" <y...@storm.ca> wrote in message
news:3d0feb2...@news.storm.ca...
> For the rec.travel.europe FAQ in particular, please see:
The original question was about guidelines for posting to r.t.l-a, the
answer was a post entitled "Guidelines for posting -
rec.travel.latin-america." You cross-posted your response to a couple other
rec.travel.* sites and included an FAQ which has nothing to with r.t.l-a
Perhaps before you try to preach the Usenet gospel you should learn about
on-topic versus off-topic posting...
Richard
Richard
news:aeqc72$q9u$1...@dns3.cae.ca...
My apologies, I mistakenly thought you were replying to Richard Ferguson's
post. I'm sorry. Please disregard my last message.
Richard