Internet in Italy?
Justin
unreliable internet. sometime webpages just didn't show up and I got
some bullshit alice.it error page.
Was this a fluke or does Italy simply sick at the internet?
Lennart Petersen
"Justin" <jus...@nobecauseihatespam.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:gjp4ho$eql$1...@news.motzarella.org...
There's so much else in Italy......
Justin
Yes, but I was there on business.
scorcell...@gmail.com
Well, usually that is unfortunately common.
Italy does not have (yet) an "Internet culture" like the US or other
Eu countries. Last year a collegue of mine rented an appartment in
Italy and had to wait for Telecom to install DSL for 121 days.
Internet cafe's are around, usually about 2 to 4 euros /hour, no
wireless ( Italy has a law against the wireless signal "leaving the
premises" in order to fight terrorism, imagine that). A good choice
are public libraries, or internet cafe's if you find them. The
connection being slow, is very common.
Runge13
"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> a écrit dans le message de
news:pf71m4p438cvf73ae...@4ax.com...
> I hope you enjoyed the food.
> --
>
> Martin
>
>
poldy
Justin <jus...@nobecauseihatespam.com> wrote:
They have broadband if that's what you're asking.
The problem is that there are regulations about access, like hotels and
Internet cafes need to xerox the user's passport because of
antiterrorism laws.
The place I stayed at in Florence a couple of years ago had this service
which provided VOIP, Internet and digital TV for a low price to the
landlord.
But he was dragging his feet about connecting my room to the router. I
had to keep pestering him and he finally connected.
In other places, I've seen unsecured wifi networks.
When looking for lodgings for an upcoming trip in April, it seems the
listing of Internet access as an amenity (often for additional costs)
seems more common than in previous years.
I hear Facebook is very popular among Italians.
Justin
> In article <gjp4ho$eql$1...@news.motzarella.org>,
> Justin <jus...@nobecauseihatespam.com> wrote:
>
>> I stayed at two hotels in Italy, and both has absolutely slow and
>> unreliable internet. sometime webpages just didn't show up and I got
>> some bullshit alice.it error page.
>>
>> Was this a fluke or does Italy simply sick at the internet?
>
> They have broadband if that's what you're asking.
>
> The problem is that there are regulations about access, like hotels and
> Internet cafes need to xerox the user's passport because of
> antiterrorism laws.
That happened at both hotels I stayed at - the first I didn't even
bother with the internet in the room because there was a cafe down the
block.
After I drove to Ascoli is there I needed the internet in the room and
it was absolutely atrocious.
I don't want to sound like a flag toting American nutcase, but I don't
see how Eu countries can compete if they haven't mastered the latest
technologies.
As for anti terrorism - I had to bite my tongue for a sec. After all I
had to dump my shampoo into three ounce containers to get them through
TSA security. So I guess the US and Eu have some pretty stupid laws
concerning terrorism.
Interesting point, I'm guessing they monitor connections and email
through their networks, I have my imap mail set to use SSL. My email
service is the only one I know of that uses full military strength
encryption.
>
> The place I stayed at in Florence a couple of years ago had this service
> which provided VOIP, Internet and digital TV for a low price to the
> landlord.
>
> But he was dragging his feet about connecting my room to the router. I
> had to keep pestering him and he finally connected.
All Italians drag their feet. I have family there and nothing happens
instantly.
the Rome airport is absolutely the worst. No wonder they can't win a war.
I had to take two shuttles to get to the correct gate, and the airline
signs outside the terminals are so small one has to stop and take a look.
>
> In other places, I've seen unsecured wifi networks.
>
> When looking for lodgings for an upcoming trip in April, it seems the
> listing of Internet access as an amenity (often for additional costs)
> seems more common than in previous years.
>
> I hear Facebook is very popular among Italians.
Indeed. Everyone asked for my facebook and Skype account.
poldy
Justin <jus...@nobecauseihatespam.com> wrote:
> I don't want to sound like a flag toting American nutcase, but I don't
> see how Eu countries can compete if they haven't mastered the latest
> technologies.
Their telecom infrastructure is fine.
In fact, in many countries, you can get faster speeds for less money.
They adopted GSM from the start which American carriers only lately are
adopting. Their mobile networks are considered more reliable and
pervasive.
In the early '90s, the Scandinavian countries adopted ISDN while the US
was mostly dialup.
Their regulations on telecom have generally yielded better competition
and pricing. US OTOH have let lobbyists of the big telcos and cable TV
companies limit competition, which is why broadband in the US is
inferior to most of Asian and European countries.
Justin
> In article <gjrad5$72n$1...@news.motzarella.org>,
> Justin <jus...@nobecauseihatespam.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't want to sound like a flag toting American nutcase, but I don't
>> see how Eu countries can compete if they haven't mastered the latest
>> technologies.
>
> Their telecom infrastructure is fine.
>
> In fact, in many countries, you can get faster speeds for less money.
>
> They adopted GSM from the start which American carriers only lately are
> adopting. Their mobile networks are considered more reliable and
> pervasive.
So they have fancy text messaging, but none of my realtives have
broadband citing it was too unreliable to be worth it.
They're certainly not poor.
Also GSM is overrated. The US started saturating the cellphone market
in the mid 1980's and built its infrastructure since before GSM was
widely deployed if at all. Then these companies had to retool their
networks for GSM despite the fact not all of their customers need it.
GSM is great but its not this amazing technology that will revolutionize
cellphones.
The company I work for just dumped our phones for GSMs. I don't see a
difference. I can browse the net from the phone which I rarely do.
Again, citing my experience with my relatives in Italy, they tried a few
times to bring up the internet on their Blackberries and it didn't work.
Maybe we were in a dead zone - I don't know.
>
> In the early '90s, the Scandinavian countries adopted ISDN while the US
> was mostly dialup.
Citing my IRC experiences in college, it was quite a treat. It probably
made sense to them since they're so much bigger and probably had weather
related road closures on a regular basis.
>
> Their regulations on telecom have generally yielded better competition
> and pricing. US OTOH have let lobbyists of the big telcos and cable TV
> companies limit competition, which is why broadband in the US is
> inferior to most of Asian and European countries.
If you consider government subsidized monopolies better regulated.
Other than Telia who is available in Sweden? I realise Sweden is one of
the most connected since the mid 1990's; I have seen Swedes on IRC
acting like jerks since I started college in '96.
I also disagree with you saying broadband is inferior to Asian
countries. Are you telling me a country where people live in huts like
Western China and the Philippines has better broadband? I find that
hard to believe.
As for Scarebus, they can undercut Boeing thanks to government subsidies.
I rode in an A330 and my Empower port didn't work.
Hopefully the 787 will be enough to put Scarebus in its place.
I think Europe will return to a watered down form of fascism. Italy
needs passports for internet access, the UK has CCTV. The US is on the
same path with the patriot act and the TSA; but we have the ACLU and
various other organizations to combat those little rules.
The passivity of Europeans is also an issue. At the first hotel the
breakfast room was full. I took my food ant ate it int he lobby.
Others just sat there and waited. Then when I showed my
family/co-workers me gun permit - that was an interesting experience;
their jaws dropped.
then again this doesn't have anything to do with the internet.
poldy
Justin <jus...@nobecauseihatespam.com> wrote:
> I also disagree with you saying broadband is inferior to Asian
> countries. Are you telling me a country where people live in huts like
> Western China and the Philippines has better broadband? I find that
> hard to believe.
I was thinking more of Japan, South Korea, Singapore.
Taiwan, Hong Kong are probably up there too.
There is an OCED survey of broadband infrastructure. US is down the
list.
David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)
> Then when I showed my
> family/co-workers me gun permit - that was an interesting experience;
> their jaws dropped.
1. They were probably wondering how on earth you got one.
2. They were shocked you thought they'd be 'impressed.'
--
(*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
www.davidhorne.net (email address on website)
"The fact is that when I compose I never think of and never
have thought of meeting the listener." -George Perle
Justin
Taiwan may as well be a US territory like Puerto Rico.
Hong Kong was under British rule until 1997.
Broadband access per capita puts the US and UK at 15 and 16
respectively. Japan at 13.
Let's not forget there's 300 million people in this country and its so
spread out. Its easy to retool infrastructure in a country the size of
California (Japan) or New York City (Hong Kong); so I don't think that's
a fair comparison. I'm going by square mileage. Let's not forget the
government supports their telecom companies so they basically have
unlimited revenue via taxes. US companies have shareholders and
financial reports to worry about.
William Black
"Justin" <jus...@nobecauseihatespam.com> wrote in message
news:gjs5i3$ekf$1...@news.motzarella.org...
> So they have fancy text messaging, but none of my realtives have broadband
> citing it was too unreliable to be worth it.
> They're certainly not poor.
Then they're either liars or fools.
> Also GSM is overrated. The US started saturating the cellphone market in
> the mid 1980's and built its infrastructure since before GSM was widely
> deployed if at all. Then these companies had to retool their networks for
> GSM despite the fact not all of their customers need it. GSM is great but
> its not this amazing technology that will revolutionize cellphones.
It's reasonably secure, something the older systems were not.
When's the US getting 3G with Skype on the phone for free calls?
I notice that Apple don't allow it on the iPhone because they flog it
through a big telecom company...
The US lets short termism get in the way of the technology.
> The company I work for just dumped our phones for GSMs. I don't see a
> difference.
Are you telling me a country where people live in huts like
> Western China and the Philippines has better broadband? I find that hard
> to believe.
I have reliable ADSL 2+ in India with a routine speed of about 2 Mbps.
It is faster and more reliable than my service in the UK, which is pretty
relaible.
> As for Scarebus, they can undercut Boeing thanks to government subsidies.
Boeing gets government subsidy as well, they just call it a 'military
development contract'.
> I think Europe will return to a watered down form of fascism.
Ah, so you're mad...
Italy
> needs passports for internet access, the UK has CCTV. The US is on the
> same path with the patriot act and the TSA; but we have the ACLU and
> various other organizations to combat those little rules.
What does the 'A' at the front stand for?
And why do you think it needs it?
>
> The passivity of Europeans is also an issue. At the first hotel the
> breakfast room was full. I took my food ant ate it int he lobby. Others
> just sat there and waited. Then when I showed my family/co-workers me gun
> permit - that was an interesting experience; their jaws dropped.
It would in Italy, you don't need a permit for hunting weapons...
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
Karole Singeur
> poldy wrote:
> > In article <gjp4ho$eq...@news.motzarella.org>,
you sound like a "flag toting American nutcase"..........
Justin
> you sound like a "flag toting American nutcase"..........
Well I do have a license to carry permit....
Karole Singeur
have you tried penis enlargement ?
William Black
> Karole Singeur wrote:
>
>> you sound like a "flag toting American nutcase"..........
>
>
> Well I do have a license to carry permit....
In Italy!
Oh no you don't...
My UK gun licenses work there, your US one won't...
David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)
> "Justin" <jus...@nobecauseihatespam.com> wrote in message
> news:gjssdb$60j$1...@news.motzarella.org...
> > Karole Singeur wrote:
> >
> >> you sound like a "flag toting American nutcase"..........
> >
> >
> > Well I do have a license to carry permit....
>
> In Italy!
>
> Oh no you don't...
>
> My UK gun licenses work there, your US one won't...
Which of you has the bigger gun license?
William Black
"David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)" <d4g...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1it313i.15rhopb1wyneziN%d4g...@yahoo.co.uk...
> William Black <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> "Justin" <jus...@nobecauseihatespam.com> wrote in message
>> news:gjssdb$60j$1...@news.motzarella.org...
>> > Karole Singeur wrote:
>> >
>> >> you sound like a "flag toting American nutcase"..........
>> >
>> >
>> > Well I do have a license to carry permit....
>>
>> In Italy!
>>
>> Oh no you don't...
>>
>> My UK gun licenses work there, your US one won't...
>
> Which of you has the bigger gun license?
The last time I went shooting in Italy we took the cannon...
Justin
>
> "Justin" <jus...@nobecauseihatespam.com> wrote in message
> news:gjssdb$60j$1...@news.motzarella.org...
>> Karole Singeur wrote:
>>
>>> you sound like a "flag toting American nutcase"..........
>>
>>
>> Well I do have a license to carry permit....
>
> In Italy!
>
> Oh no you don't...
>
> My UK gun licenses work there, your US one won't...
>
But King George forbade you to have weapons!
What would Die think of her citizens carrying around instruments of death?
William Black
Are you insane or is English not your native language?
No other possibilities spring to mind...
Karole Singeur
> Justin <jus...@nobecauseihatespam.com> wrote innews:gjs5i3$ekf$1...@news.motzarella.org:
>
> > Also GSM is overrated. The US started saturating the cellphone market
> > in the mid 1980's and built its infrastructure since before GSM was
> > widely deployed if at all.
>
> 1980s in place, some even in the 1950s. Some of the ones deployed in
> the 80s had almost the same features as modern digital networks, except
> they couldn't accomodate as many users and they were national standards
> thus incompatible with each other, no or limited roaming etc. GSM was
> launched in 1992 only, the previously existing networks have since been
> phased out.
>
> > Then these companies had to retool their
> > networks for GSM
>
>
> > GSM is great but its not this amazing technology that
> > will revolutionize cellphones.
>
> technologies. Its success is due to the fact that it's an agreed-upon
> international standard with 100% compatibility of handsets across
> networks and countries, continents even, which allowed both the
> hardware and the airtime to become very very cheap due to economy of
> scale. What stalled mobile phones becoming as popular in the US was its
> confusing mix of different technologies and proprietary solutions,
> which prevented prices from coming down.
>
> > If you consider government subsidized monopolies better regulated.
>
except for US banking, US mortgages, US car makers......
Markku Grönroos
"Wolfgang Schwanke" <s...@sig.nature> kirjoitti
viestissä:o1fb36-...@wschwanke.de...
> Justin <jus...@nobecauseihatespam.com> wrote in
> news:gjs5i3$ekf$1...@news.motzarella.org:
>
> What? "Government subsidised monopolies" don't exist now.
>
cars closely resembles makes like UAZ and GAZ.
David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)
> "Justin" <jus...@nobecauseihatespam.com> wrote in message
> news:gjuoje$2fu$1...@news.motzarella.org...
> > William Black wrote:
> >>
> >> "Justin" <jus...@nobecauseihatespam.com> wrote in message
> >> news:gjssdb$60j$1...@news.motzarella.org...
> >>> Karole Singeur wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> you sound like a "flag toting American nutcase"..........
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Well I do have a license to carry permit....
> >>
> >> In Italy!
> >>
> >> Oh no you don't...
> >>
> >> My UK gun licenses work there, your US one won't...
> >>
> >
> > But King George forbade you to have weapons!
> > What would Die think of her citizens carrying around instruments of death?
> >
>
> Are you insane or is English not your native language?
>
> No other possibilities spring to mind...
Ever driven through Connecticut? Hardly an 'extreme' state, but I
noticed a few adverts roadside last week which advertised a female
lawyer who presumably tries her utmost to get drunken drivers off the
hook. The ad, with a smart picture of her, says "call Lady DUI." Indeed,
here it is-
William Black
"Mike" <travel...@live.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6uj6m4t3ccm6kenif...@4ax.com...
> "William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>> What would Die think of her citizens carrying around instruments of
>>> death?
>>>
>>
>>Are you insane or is English not your native language?
>>
>>No other possibilities spring to mind...
>
> king who was around when US was fighting UK and didnt notice any
> history past that point or that European countries are mature
> democracies with powerless constitutional monarchies (or not). "Die"
> is a reference to dead Di, Princess of Wales, I think?
So he IS insane then...
poldy
"William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> I notice that Apple don't allow it on the iPhone because they flog it
> through a big telecom company...
>
> The US lets short termism get in the way of the technology.
Actually, there is a third-party app. which can access Skype and other
VOIP accounts.
But you can only use on Wifi, not over the mobile network.
William Black
"poldy" <po...@kfu.com> wrote in message
news:poldy-1FC79A....@reserved-multicast-range-NOT-delegated.example.com...
So you can get Skype, if you are technically competent and just happen to
be near an unsecured wireless network (so, in real terms not a hope...)
The fact is that Apple crippled the phone because it flogs the thing through
a big telecom company and didn't want to upset them.
This particular 'feature' is what is stopping an awful lot of people buying
them, including myself and my wife.
David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)
> "poldy" <po...@kfu.com> wrote in message
> news:poldy-1FC79A....@reserved-multicast-range-NOT-delegated.ex
> ample.com...
> > In article <gjsggh$nt$1...@news.motzarella.org>,
> > "William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> I notice that Apple don't allow it on the iPhone because they flog it
> >> through a big telecom company...
> >>
> >> The US lets short termism get in the way of the technology.
> >
> > Actually, there is a third-party app. which can access Skype and other
> > VOIP accounts.
> >
> > But you can only use on Wifi, not over the mobile network.
>
> So you can get Skype, if you are technically competent and just happen to
> be near an unsecured wireless network (so, in real terms not a hope...)
>
> The fact is that Apple crippled the phone because it flogs the thing through
> a big telecom company and didn't want to upset them.
>
> This particular 'feature' is what is stopping an awful lot of people buying
> them, including myself and my wife.
I suspect that won't matter to a lot of people in the UK, given that the
2nd cheapest contract (£35) includes 600 minutes. More than enough for
most people. (Average phone use is around 300 minutes a month FWIW, and
that includes receiving calls, which aren't paid for.)
Justin
> "William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>> What would Die think of her citizens carrying around instruments of death?
>>>
>> Are you insane or is English not your native language?
>>
>> No other possibilities spring to mind...
>
> king who was around when US was fighting UK and didnt notice any
> history past that point or that European countries are mature
> democracies with powerless constitutional monarchies (or not). "Die"
> is a reference to dead Di, Princess of Wales, I think?
>
Oi!
All mouth and trousers...
Justin
> On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:07:23 +0530, "William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> "Mike" <travel...@live.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:6uj6m4t3ccm6kenif...@4ax.com...
>>> "William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> What would Die think of her citizens carrying around instruments of
>>>>> death?
>>>>>
>>>> Are you insane or is English not your native language?
>>>>
>>>> No other possibilities spring to mind...
>>> I will explain, he thinks all European gun control comes from some old
>>> king who was around when US was fighting UK and didnt notice any
>>> history past that point or that European countries are mature
>>> democracies with powerless constitutional monarchies (or not). "Die"
>>> is a reference to dead Di, Princess of Wales, I think?
>> So he IS insane then...
>
> wanted was to visit Venice in California
I think you're part of the Pink Pond.
Justin
> Justin <jus...@nobecauseihatespam.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't want to sound like a flag toting American nutcase
>
> you are sounding more like a troll with the gun nonsense.
<sigh>
Thick as mince, indeed.
Justin
> On Jan 5, 12:54 pm, Justin <jus...@nobecauseihatespam.com> wrote:
>> Karole Singeur wrote:
>>> you sound like a "flag toting American nutcase"..........
>> Well I do have a license to carry permit....
>
You'll have to be more specific. There are pills, air pumps, exercises,
herbal remedies....
William Black
Our main use of Skype, and this seems common for most people who use it in
the UK, is international calls.
Mike O'Sullivan
>
>> you are sounding more like a troll with the gun nonsense.
>
> <sigh>
>
> Thick as mince, indeed.
Is that worse than two short planks?
Tim C.
<news:91ebm4dqasgqhnlb1...@4ax.com> :
>>Is that worse than two short planks?
>
> never heard that one before
?? really? As thick as two short planks?
I thought it was almost universal - in the UK anyway.
Then again, I'd never heard "thick as mince" before :-)
--
Tim C.
Erick T. Barkhuis
> <news:91ebm4dqasgqhnlb1...@4ax.com> :
>
> >>Is that worse than two short planks?
> >
> > never heard that one before
>
> ?? really? As thick as two short planks?
> I thought it was almost universal - in the UK anyway.
I'd never heard of it, either.
Then again, my UK English is almost non-existent.
--
Erick
Katherine Wiel
> Karole Singeur wrote:
> > On Jan 5, 12:54 pm, Justin <jus...@nobecauseihatespam.com> wrote:
> >> Karole Singeur wrote:
> >>> you sound like a "flag toting American nutcase"..........
> >> Well I do have a license to carry permit....
>
> > have you tried penis enlargement ?
>
> You'll have to be more specific. There are pills, air pumps, exercises,
> herbal remedies....
how many cocks do you have ?
Erick T. Barkhuis
> >Then again, I'd never heard "thick as mince" before :-)
>
> Nor me.
Well, then you gentlemen should go out more often.
--
Erick
Mike O'Sullivan
> Mike O'Sullivan <mi...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>> Thick as mince, indeed.
>> Is that worse than two short planks?
>
Sorry - it's a British thing!
Mike O'Sullivan
David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)
Tim C.
<news:MPG.23cff48cc...@127.0.0.1> :
I keep thinking that too :)
--
Tim C.
Tim C.
<news:b4ncm4p9gtl1rpcli...@4ax.com> :
> In this brass monkey weather?
It's ok, I have fur-lined underwear. :-)
It was -12C this morning. Luckily we've reached the stage where there's
little moisture in the air and the car's windows don't need too much of a
scrape.
--
Tim C.
William Black
No UK contract for a mobile phone includes international calls.
William Black
"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:jjcem4dj713ujspip...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 16:31:19 +0530, "William Black"
>
> http://www.abroad.vodafone.co.uk/index.cfm?do=cost.international&me=a1&nu=1&le=1&business=true&sn=s5
> --
>
I mean that you always have to pay.
Vodaphone seem to give a discount, but international calls on a mobile
phone are ruinously expensive.
Skype on a 3G mobile is free...
Well, depending on what you pay for 3G access...
Justin
I think its related to a dilly and a dally.
Justin
Hold on, let me fire up Excel.
Justin
>>> king who was around when US was fighting UK and didnt notice any
>>> history past that point or that European countries are mature
>>> democracies with powerless constitutional monarchies (or not). "Die"
>>> is a reference to dead Di, Princess of Wales, I think?
>> So he IS insane then...
>
> Well, lets be charitable and says its a certain type of US
> perspective.
Are you taking a piss?
poldy
"William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> The fact is that Apple crippled the phone because it flogs the thing through
> a big telecom company and didn't want to upset them.
>
> This particular 'feature' is what is stopping an awful lot of people buying
> them, including myself and my wife.
Well that's how all phones are sold in the US, at least the ones which
turn out to be big-sellers.
It's unfortunate that they exported that model to other countries but
the reality is that the cost of the product is such that without
subsidies, it would have to be priced beyond the reach of a lot of
people without contract subsidies.
poldy
"William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> > I suspect that won't matter to a lot of people in the UK, given that the
> > 2nd cheapest contract (£35) includes 600 minutes. More than enough for
> > most people. (Average phone use is around 300 minutes a month FWIW, and
> > that includes receiving calls, which aren't paid for.)
>
> Our main use of Skype, and this seems common for most people who use it in
> the UK, is international calls.
The key would be whether data is unlimited. IIRC, only a few countries
other than the US offered iPhone plans with unlimited data.
poldy
"William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Skype on a 3G mobile is free...
Skype calls to other Skype accounts would be free.
But Skype to phone lines wouldn't be free, would it?
And other phones have Skype clients and the mobile carriers allow VOIP
on their data networks?
David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)
> "David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)" <d4g...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1it8lfq.1sxd9js1m44olwN%d4g...@yahoo.co.uk...
> > William Black <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> "David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)" <d4g...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> >> news:1it73s4.1b7gog41l5064gN%d4g...@yahoo.co.uk...
> >> > William Black <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
[]
> >> >> This particular 'feature' is what is stopping an awful lot of people
> >> >> buying
> >> >> them, including myself and my wife.
> >> >
> >> > I suspect that won't matter to a lot of people in the UK, given that
> >> > the
> >> > 2nd cheapest contract (£35) includes 600 minutes. More than enough for
> >> > most people. (Average phone use is around 300 minutes a month FWIW, and
> >> > that includes receiving calls, which aren't paid for.)
> >>
> >> Our main use of Skype, and this seems common for most people who use it
> >> in
> >> the UK, is international calls.
> >
> > And that changes my point how, exactly?
>
> No UK contract for a mobile phone includes international calls.
International calls from a mobile, contrary to the opinion you express
in a later post, need only cost what they do on 1899 etc., including the
local UK part of the call- which as I point out above would be inclusive
on an iphone plan. There are other ways of calling abroad cheaply on a
mobile- especially for people who generally have a circle of people they
call (typical among many skype users)- e.g. rebtel.
Meanwhile the mobile phone companies make a lot of money out of people
who don't realise the cheaper options...
The iphone is an expensive piece of kit with many powerful features-
these either appeal to consumers or not. I'm not arguing either way
whether or not it would be nice to have fully functional skype on it or
not, but someone thinking of laying out serious money for an iphone is
generally not going to be put off by not being able to use skype.
Particularly, as I say, when the actual number of time people use for
making calls averages around 300 minutes a month. That could even go
down, as people find they need to make less calls which are
non-personal.
David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)
Except the iphone is now available in the UK without a contract. I don't
know what the takeup has been though- it's £342 for the 8GB model.
Tangentially, I saw prepaid mobiles on sale for $10 in Boston last week,
with fairly cheap refill minutes. If I actually needed to make mobile
calls when visiting the US, I'd consider this option.
Not that anyone asked, but I wouldn't consider an iphone at the moment,
skype or not.
erilar
d4g...@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
> The iphone is an expensive piece of kit with many powerful features-
> these either appeal to consumers or not. I'm not arguing either way
> whether or not it would be nice to have fully functional skype on it or
> not, but someone thinking of laying out serious money for an iphone is
> generally not going to be put off by not being able to use skype.
I can't cite anything offhand, but somewhere in the past few days there
was talk on a TV show I was half-listening to about one that COULD
access Skype. The yearly consumer electronics show in Vegas is on just
now, though, so this might be something too new to be generally
available.
--
Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar)
You can't reason with someone whose first line of argument is
that reason doesn't count. --Isaac Asimov
Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.chibardun.net/~erilarlo
William Black
"erilar" <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:drache-023BDC....@news.airstreamcomm.net...
> In article <1itbod5.dsi3929oema2N%d4g...@yahoo.co.uk>,
> d4g...@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
>> The iphone is an expensive piece of kit with many powerful features-
>> these either appeal to consumers or not. I'm not arguing either way
>> whether or not it would be nice to have fully functional skype on it or
>> not, but someone thinking of laying out serious money for an iphone is
>> generally not going to be put off by not being able to use skype.
>
> I can't cite anything offhand, but somewhere in the past few days there
> was talk on a TV show I was half-listening to about one that COULD
> access Skype. The yearly consumer electronics show in Vegas is on just
> now, though, so this might be something too new to be generally
> available.
Well they're flogging something in the UK called 'The Skype Phone' for about
£45.
I gather you can buy one without a contract and that 3G PAYG SIMs are now
freely available.
But as I'm not in the UK at the moment it'll have to wait until I get back
there...
poldy
"William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Well they're flogging something in the UK called 'The Skype Phone' for about
> £45.
>
> I gather you can buy one without a contract and that 3G PAYG SIMs are now
> freely available.
>
> But as I'm not in the UK at the moment it'll have to wait until I get back
> there...
In the US, they sold phones with Wifi for use around the homes which
could access Skype.
In Europe, with a bigger prepaid market, it wouldn't be surprising if
there were models with a Skype client.
But of course, SkypeIn and SkypeOut cost more than straight Skype to
Skype calls.
By now, isn't the international termination fees within Europe less
because of the EU edict.
poldy
d4g...@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
> Not that anyone asked, but I wouldn't consider an iphone at the moment,
> skype or not.
It's not particularly useful for Americans to take to Europe. There are
scans of bills which go for thousands because international data roaming
for US iPhone customers is prohibitive.
But you can turn off data roaming and use Wifi (you can use VOIP via
Wifi).
I'd be more interested in using an iPhone/iPod Touch in Europe with
certain applications. For instance, there are travel guides and
translation programs. Obviously this content is available in books but
an iPhone/iPod Touch provides it in a compact form and if you use it for
listening to music, then you might be carrying it with you anyways.
I also found a program which contains the maps of several metros. I
don't own an iPhone or iPod Touch yet so I don't know if they're just
simple maps or if you can do trip planning, like the kind available on a
lot of metro web sites where you enter two locations and they plot out
your route through metro and bus combinations.
Google Maps with GPS may also have utility on the go. There are also
geotagging applications which may save me from buying GPS devices. Now
that iPhoto has geotagging support, more of these kinds of applications
may appear.
Mike O'Sullivan
>
Vodaphone seem to give a discount, but international calls on a mobile
> phone are ruinously expensive.
Not with Vodafone Passport they're not.
Mike O'Sullivan
No, that's the Definite article, "Taking THE piss"
David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)
He's referring to calling from the UK to other countries abroad,
presumably. If he's referring to roaming, then skype on a mobile
certainly isn't going to make that cheaper, so back to square one.
Indeed, 3 (the company) recently removed automatic roaming because
customers were getting hit with such huge bills.
David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)
> In article <gkal18$pmp$1...@news.motzarella.org>,
> "William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> > Well they're flogging something in the UK called 'The Skype Phone' for about
> > £45.
> >
> > I gather you can buy one without a contract and that 3G PAYG SIMs are now
> > freely available.
> >
> > But as I'm not in the UK at the moment it'll have to wait until I get back
> > there...
>
> In the US, they sold phones with Wifi for use around the homes which
> could access Skype.
>
> In Europe, with a bigger prepaid market, it wouldn't be surprising if
> there were models with a Skype client.
>
> But of course, SkypeIn and SkypeOut cost more than straight Skype to
> Skype calls.
The 3 deal only includes skype to skype for 'free' and that 'free'
requires a monthly £10 top-up. So, it's actually well over £100 for the
first year of using a service which, most likely, you're already using
for free from your home computer...
David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)
> On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:52:09 +0000, d4g...@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_
> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> >Mike O'Sullivan <mi...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >
> >> William Black wrote:
> >> >
> >> Vodaphone seem to give a discount, but international calls on a mobile
> >> > phone are ruinously expensive.
> >>
> >> Not with Vodafone Passport they're not.
> >
> >He's referring to calling from the UK to other countries abroad,
> >presumably. If he's referring to roaming, then skype on a mobile
> >certainly isn't going to make that cheaper, so back to square one.
> >Indeed, 3 (the company) recently removed automatic roaming because
> >customers were getting hit with such huge bills.
>
> Vodafone Passport isn't particularly cheap. What is very cheap is one O2
> mobile phone in UK to call another O2 mobile phone in the Netherlands.
> What is not cheap is using an O2 mobile in UK to call a KPN land line
> phone in the Netherlands.
Cheap if you call via 1899 etc. though!
I think we've been through this before- the mobile companies try their
hardest to make the cost of many calls unclear!
That said, I hardly ever call abroad from my mobile... indeed, hardly
ever call from my mobile! :)
David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)
> On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:09:37 +0000, d4g...@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_
> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> >Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:52:09 +0000, d4g...@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_
> >> chancellor (*)) wrote:
> >>
> >> >Mike O'Sullivan <mi...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> William Black wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> Vodaphone seem to give a discount, but international calls on a
> >> >> mobile > phone are ruinously expensive.
> >> >>
> >> >> Not with Vodafone Passport they're not.
> >> >
> >> >He's referring to calling from the UK to other countries abroad,
> >> >presumably. If he's referring to roaming, then skype on a mobile
> >> >certainly isn't going to make that cheaper, so back to square one.
> >> >Indeed, 3 (the company) recently removed automatic roaming because
> >> >customers were getting hit with such huge bills.
> >>
> >> Vodafone Passport isn't particularly cheap. What is very cheap is one O2
> >> mobile phone in UK to call another O2 mobile phone in the Netherlands.
> >> What is not cheap is using an O2 mobile in UK to call a KPN land line
> >> phone in the Netherlands.
> >
> >Cheap if you call via 1899 etc. though!
> >
> >I think we've been through this before- the mobile companies try their
> >hardest to make the cost of many calls unclear!
> >
> >That said, I hardly ever call abroad from my mobile... indeed, hardly
> >ever call from my mobile! :)
>
> O2 changed it's charge rates last year, I wasn't expecting them to take GBP
> 1.50/minute.
Not uncommon, but note that calls to 0844 are 25p a minute.
In this case, O2 PAYG mobile users can call an 0844 callthrough number
(many available) and then call direct to a country like NL- landline
only. Or, use 18185 to pay an extra 0.5p (plus 5p connection charge) on
top of the cost of calling a UK landline- that's the cheaper option.
The outrageously high prices charged for certain kinds of calls can
usually be subverted!
> http://www.o2.co.uk/mobilestariffs/tariffs/paygo/talkalot It looks like
> them charging O2 UK -> O2 NL at the standard UK rate is a cock up, but
> well worth exploiting :o) Maybe it was something to do with calling from
> Hull :)
Nice mistake! :)
Mike O'Sullivan
>
> Cheap if you call via 1899 etc. though!
Have look at 18185.com. Even cheaper the last time I checked.
William Black
> In the US, they sold phones with Wifi for use around the homes which
> could access Skype.
We have one.
It is not a great sucess.
Poor battery life, short range and a nasty tendency lose the wireless
encryption key.
They are no longer on the market in the UK...
William Black
> poldy <po...@kfu.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <gkal18$pmp$1...@news.motzarella.org>,
>> "William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Well they're flogging something in the UK called 'The Skype Phone' for
>> > about
>> > £45.
>> >
>> > I gather you can buy one without a contract and that 3G PAYG SIMs are
>> > now
>> > freely available.
>> >
>> > But as I'm not in the UK at the moment it'll have to wait until I get
>> > back
>> > there...
>>
>> In the US, they sold phones with Wifi for use around the homes which
>> could access Skype.
>>
>> In Europe, with a bigger prepaid market, it wouldn't be surprising if
>> there were models with a Skype client.
>>
>> But of course, SkypeIn and SkypeOut cost more than straight Skype to
>> Skype calls.
>
> The 3 deal only includes skype to skype for 'free' and that 'free'
> requires a monthly £10 top-up. So, it's actually well over £100 for the
> first year of using a service which, most likely, you're already using
> for free from your home computer...
True.
But there are other 3G phones and there will soon be 2nd hand ones about and
you can buy PAYG SIMSs now...