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must sees for 2 weeks in Italy

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Marcus Holmes

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Mar 16, 2002, 9:47:09 PM3/16/02
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Never been to Italy. Going there for 2 weeks in June. What are your
recommendations of cities to visit and how long to stay in each?


Thanks!

Marcus

Ken Blake

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Mar 16, 2002, 9:56:58 PM3/16/02
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"Marcus Holmes" <mho...@world.std.com> wrote in message
news:a710c1$57d$1...@pcls4.std.com...


Rome - 2 weeks
Venice - 2 weeks
Florence - 2 weeks
Siena - 1 week
Capri - 1 week
Bologna - 3 days
Parma - 3 days
Palermo - 1 week
Taormina - 1 week
Siracusa - 1 week
Lucca - 3 days
Perugia - 3 days
etc.


--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup


Marcus Holmes

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Mar 16, 2002, 10:19:32 PM3/16/02
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> Rome - 2 weeks
> Venice - 2 weeks
> Florence - 2 weeks
> Siena - 1 week
> Capri - 1 week
> Bologna - 3 days
> Parma - 3 days
> Palermo - 1 week
> Taormina - 1 week
> Siracusa - 1 week
> Lucca - 3 days
> Perugia - 3 days
> etc.

No Milan?


Marcus

mimi

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Mar 16, 2002, 11:32:10 PM3/16/02
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Marcus Holmes wrote in message ...

No, skip Milan, but add 2 weeks touring the lakes, another week for Sorrento
and the Amalfi Coast, and 3 days in Cinque Terre. Oh, and then there's
Tuscany...and Umbria...

(I may have to move there.)

Marianne

Paul Tauger

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Mar 17, 2002, 12:15:10 AM3/17/02
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With only two weeks, I'd recommend no more than three cities. You can't go
wrong with the big three -- Rome, Florence and Venice.

"Marcus Holmes" <mho...@world.std.com> wrote in message
news:a710c1$57d$1...@pcls4.std.com...

Giovanni Sonego

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Mar 17, 2002, 8:20:23 AM3/17/02
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Dear Marcus,
in two weeks only it's very difficult to make a selection. In my
opinion you should fix only one or two top cities (in my opinion the
top cities are: Venezia, Firenze, Roma and Napoli) and then travelling
between the two cities you will discover a less known italy guided by
you istinct. Buy a good guide book and try to find the most interting
(for you) place between Venezia and Rome.

Ciao
Giovanni Sonego
------------------------------------
http://forum.italiaplease.com/guests
THE ITALIAN TOURISM CONNECTION
....................................
Per rispondere rimuovi SCOAZZE

Ken Blake

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Mar 17, 2002, 10:26:35 AM3/17/02
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"Marcus Holmes" <mho...@world.std.com> wrote in message
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It (and a lot of other places) are included within the etc. I got
tired of naming cities.

Frank Matthews

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Mar 17, 2002, 1:08:02 PM3/17/02
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I would recommend Rome, Florence, Venice, & Sorrento.

Probably 3 days in Venice then Florence, 1 day to travel to Sorrento, 3
days in Sorrento and the rest in Rome. Assuming two weeks with weekends
on both ends this would work. I put Sorrento in the middle to get some
rest but if you try the Amalfi coast, Capri, Pompeii, & Herculanium
there will be little rest.

The suggestion is for a moderate amount of traveling with a reasonable
introduction to each area. Clearly you will not see everything in 2
weeks but it's a start and you should see the well known stuff.

Any of the four could take a week and Rome the whole two.

Frank Matthews

Marcus Holmes

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Mar 17, 2002, 1:50:04 PM3/17/02
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> I would recommend Rome, Florence, Venice, & Sorrento.

I think I will probably just stick with Rome, Florence and Venice for this
trip. I'm weary of adding too many cities!

Thanks for your recommendation. It has been helpful.

Any idea on where I can buy train tickets online? The Trenitalia site won't
let me book for June...


Marcus


hamilton

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Mar 17, 2002, 3:00:21 PM3/17/02
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In article <a72opg$65g$1...@pcls4.std.com>, "Marcus Holmes"
<mho...@world.std.com> wrote:

If it were me, I would choose two of the cities -- and then something
smaller e.g. Florence/Siena/Rome or Venice/Rome/Sorrento or
Venice/Florence/Siena

less is more

Marcus Holmes

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Mar 17, 2002, 3:15:33 PM3/17/02
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> If it were me, I would choose two of the cities -- and then something
> smaller e.g. Florence/Siena/Rome or Venice/Rome/Sorrento or
> Venice/Florence/Siena

Well as it turns out we're going to be flying into Milan so maybe we'll just
do the triangle of Milan - Venice - Florence.

Is there much worthwhile to see in Milan?


Marcus

Greg Klipstein

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Mar 17, 2002, 3:21:34 PM3/17/02
to Marcus Holmes
Marcus,
I have visited Italy several times, never for longer than 2 weeks. Do
your homework...what do you really want to see and what cities?
Depending on your direction of travel...you could open jaw into Rome and
out of Milan or vice versa to save a half day of travel (assuming you
are flying). I agree with most of the posters: Venice, Florence, Rome
can easily fill 2 weeks...you could squeeze in a day or 2 in Milan,
Cinque Terra, Naples or Pisa. To see 1-3 major sites per day in any
major city is, IMO, easy and you can have a very good and memorable
experience in 3-4 days. If you spend 1-2 weeks in one city, you may not
feel a need to return...something I really enjoy doing...seeing the
things I wished I'd seen or hearing about things after my trip that I
"should have seen." (By the way, since you mentioned "warm" June, don't
find out the hard way that you can't go into Cathedrals/Churches
*Vatican/St.Peters? Florence/Duomo? etc* with shorts and/or bare
legs...if that still applies since 10 years ago. We still laugh
remembering my wife trying to make her sweater look like a skirt long
enough to hide her knees...worn over her "disallowed" shorts.)

ff

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Mar 17, 2002, 4:32:46 PM3/17/02
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Marcus Holmes wrote:

There is a large duomo (cathedral) and a good opera, La Scala. Lots
of shopping especially clothes.


Jenn

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Mar 17, 2002, 5:20:02 PM3/17/02
to

with so little time -- Milan is really not worth much time IMHO. the
Cathedral [walk around on the roof] is wonderful and a must see -- but
forget the rest. You might want to add Verona or Siena to the mix. But
Venice and Florence are good choices. Florence is all about art -- so be
sure to make reservations for the Uffizi before you get there.

Go Fig

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Mar 17, 2002, 8:07:54 PM3/17/02
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In article <JennML-1703...@a198154.n1.vanderbilt.edu>,
Jen...@MLHOLL.com (Jenn) wrote:

Have you spent more than an overnight in Milan ?

jay
Sun, Mar 17, 2002
mailto:go...@mac.com

--

Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

Me

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Mar 17, 2002, 9:23:32 PM3/17/02
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"Marcus Holmes" <mho...@world.std.com> wrote in message
news:a710c1$57d$1...@pcls4.std.com...

> Never been to Italy. Going there for 2 weeks in June. What are your
> recommendations of cities to visit and how long to stay in each?

This depends on your interests. Two weeks is not a lot of time.
What are your interests. For me, the choice would be easy. I
would split the time between Rome and Florence. You might
want to buy one of the many travel guidebooks for Italy in
order to get some ideas. Rick Steves has an excellent book. I
also had good experience with the "Let's Go: Italy" book.


Me

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Mar 17, 2002, 9:27:13 PM3/17/02
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"Marcus Holmes" <mho...@world.std.com> wrote in message
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>
> No Milan?

Marcus, if you want to visit Milan, then by all means, do so.


Me

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Mar 17, 2002, 9:27:54 PM3/17/02
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"Marcus Holmes" <mho...@world.std.com> wrote in message
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That depends on what your definition of "worthwhile" is, but in all
likelihood,
you'll find sites to hold your interest there.


hamilton

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Mar 17, 2002, 10:20:35 PM3/17/02
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In article <Kgcl8.140727$uv5.11...@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Me"
<sr...@comcast.net> wrote:

That would be true if you parachuted randomly into any part of Italy --
but the guy has two weeks -- with only two weeks, I sure wouldn't spend a
big chunk of it in Milan.

Marcus Holmes

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Mar 17, 2002, 10:36:41 PM3/17/02
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> Marcus, if you want to visit Milan, then by all means, do so.

Thanks for your permission. That's not exactly what I meant by questioning
Milan not being on the list. I was questioning why it isn't on the list.


Marcus

Felice

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Mar 17, 2002, 10:50:52 PM3/17/02
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Having lived in Italy for a year and spending 2-3 weeks each year
thereafter, I would encourage you to consider spending some time in Umbria.
This area is known for the "Hill Cities" such as Assisi, Perugia, Spoleto,
Norcia and alike. Because it is off the beaten path the towns remain as
they were years ago. (It is northeast of Rome, 3-4 hours drive.)

If you enjoy meats, then this area is a gastronomical adventure. The area
specializes in "cinghiale" (wild boar) and other game.

Buon viaggio,
Ciao


"hamilton" <hami...@dnvln.com> wrote in message
news:hamilton-170...@host-216-76-151-55.bna.bellsouth.net...

JohannMon

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Mar 17, 2002, 11:09:05 PM3/17/02
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When in Florence, we did a late afternoon/evening trip to Siena and had a
nice time. I can't remember exactly how long the train ride was, but I
don't remember it being much more than an hour each way.

"Marcus Holmes" <mho...@world.std.com> wrote in message

news:a72opg$65g$1...@pcls4.std.com...

Jenn

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Mar 18, 2002, 9:09:50 AM3/18/02
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In article <gofig-47AC9B....@lsnewsr3.we.ipsvc.net>, Go Fig
<go...@mac.com> wrote:

oh yes -- and I don't dispute that Milan offers many pleasures to the
tourist BUT for someone on a first trip to Italy with only two weeks, I
think Milan would be a waste of his time if he has other options.

Jenn

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Mar 18, 2002, 9:11:17 AM3/18/02
to
In article <BLdl8.196428$s43.43...@typhoon.columbus.rr.com>,
"JohannMon" <uhuhseco...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> When in Florence, we did a late afternoon/evening trip to Siena and had a
> nice time. I can't remember exactly how long the train ride was, but I
> don't remember it being much more than an hour each way.

and the bus is even better because it deposits you right at the edge of
the historic center -- whereas the train station is a long walk or cab
ride away.

Siena is such a pleasure early and late, that at least an overnight should
be done if possible. Midnight on the campo -- very romantic place for a
late night moonlight drink.

Barbara Vaughan

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Mar 18, 2002, 9:40:44 AM3/18/02
to

Marcus Holmes wrote:
>
> Never been to Italy. Going there for 2 weeks in June. What are your
> recommendations of cities to visit and how long to stay in each?

I'm going to weigh in here because it looks as though you're considering
bagging Rome. Rome is one of my favorite cities in the world, not just
in Italy. I would suggest five nights in Rome. Then take the train to
Florence and stop off for a day in either Arezzo or Orvieto, both right
on the train line. Then spend four nights in Florence and two or three
nights in Venice. If you're flying out of Rome, you can return there for
a final night and to three some coins in the Trevi fountain.

Barbara


R J Carpenter

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Mar 18, 2002, 4:07:04 PM3/18/02
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You didn't mention Ravenna, which I think is remarkable and worth at
least a half-day.

Paul Tauger

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Mar 18, 2002, 4:17:33 PM3/18/02
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"Marcus Holmes" <mho...@world.std.com> wrote in message
news:a72tpo$cvo$1...@pcls4.std.com...

It depends on your tastes. Unlike the more southern cities, Milan was
pretty well devastated during WWII, and has been completely rebuilt.
Other's have mentioned the Duomo and La Scala (definitely go if you can get
tickets, but they'll be expensive, particularly if purchased through your
hotel's concierge -- plan on at least double face value with an additional
payment to the concierge). In between Scala and the Duomo is Galleria
Vittori Emanuele, the world's first indoor mall, built in 1897 and quite
impressive.

You can also do a nice day trip from Milan to Lake Como, and even take a
hydrofoil ride to Bellagio.


>
>
> Marcus
>
>
>


Jenn

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Mar 18, 2002, 4:16:44 PM3/18/02
to

Going to a bunch of places worth 'half a day' is a good way to create a
hectic unsatisfying experience. We didn't even see Rome till our 3rd trip
to Italy -- and we spent 5 days there on the first visit. Less is more.
The important thing is to make some choices and not spend all the time on
logistics of moving about and checking in and out of hotels. Barbara's
plan is doable -- although if it were me, I would drop one of the big
three and do two cities and spend a few intervening days in a smaller spot
e.g. Siena or Orvieto or Voltera or Ravenna.

Paul Tauger

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Mar 18, 2002, 4:19:43 PM3/18/02
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"Jenn" <Jen...@MLHOLL.com> wrote in message
news:JennML-1703...@a198154.n1.vanderbilt.edu...

I'm not sure I agree with you about Milan. I've been a couple of times,
once for pleasure, once on business, and enjoyed the city immensely each
time.

Florence is about art, but also abouta perfectly preserved renaissance city.
Walk through central Florence at dusk and you can easily imagine being back
in the 16th century.


Paul Tauger

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Mar 18, 2002, 4:21:12 PM3/18/02
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"Greg Klipstein" <NOgre...@us.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:3C94FACE...@us.ibm.com...

> Marcus,
> I have visited Italy several times, never for longer than 2 weeks. Do
> your homework...

This is the best advice anyone can give. Tastes differ, and knowing what's
available ahead of time will help you determine your itinerary.

Plus, it's fun!

Paul Tauger

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Mar 18, 2002, 4:23:45 PM3/18/02
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"Luca Logi" <ll...@dada.it> wrote in message
news:1f99i7s.cms7wpym2tdsN%ll...@dada.it...

> Paul Tauger <ptauger...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> > It depends on your tastes. Unlike the more southern cities, Milan was
> > pretty well devastated during WWII, and has been completely rebuilt.
> > Other's have mentioned the Duomo and La Scala (definitely go if you can
get
> > tickets, but they'll be expensive, particularly if purchased through
your
> > hotel's concierge -- plan on at least double face value with an
additional
> > payment to the concierge). In between Scala and the Duomo is Galleria
> > Vittori Emanuele, the world's first indoor mall, built in 1897 and quite
> > impressive.
>
>
> Just to remind that at present La Scala is closed for restoration and
> opera performances are in the very periferic Arcimboldi theatre.

Ah, I didn't know that. I guess we were lucky to see the "old" Scala when we
did.


>
>
>
> -- -----------------------------------------------------
> Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: ll...@dada.it
> Home page: http://www.angelfire.com/ar/archivarius
> (musicologia pratica)


Go Fig

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Mar 18, 2002, 4:35:50 PM3/18/02
to
In article <a75lsj$j0aos$1...@ID-101118.news.dfncis.de>,
"Paul Tauger" <ptauger...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> "Marcus Holmes" <mho...@world.std.com> wrote in message
> news:a72tpo$cvo$1...@pcls4.std.com...
> >
> > > If it were me, I would choose two of the cities -- and then something
> > > smaller e.g. Florence/Siena/Rome or Venice/Rome/Sorrento or
> > > Venice/Florence/Siena
> >
> > Well as it turns out we're going to be flying into Milan so maybe we'll
> just
> > do the triangle of Milan - Venice - Florence.
> >
> > Is there much worthwhile to see in Milan?
>
> It depends on your tastes. Unlike the more southern cities, Milan was
> pretty well devastated during WWII, and has been completely rebuilt.
> Other's have mentioned the Duomo

The walk from the Duomo to the castle at dusk is quite nice... in the
other direction the best fashion shopping in the world.

jay
Mon, Mar 18, 2002
mailto:go...@mac.com

and La Scala (definitely go if you can get
> tickets, but they'll be expensive, particularly if purchased through your
> hotel's concierge -- plan on at least double face value with an additional
> payment to the concierge). In between Scala and the Duomo is Galleria
> Vittori Emanuele, the world's first indoor mall, built in 1897 and quite
> impressive.
>
> You can also do a nice day trip from Milan to Lake Como, and even take a
> hydrofoil ride to Bellagio.
>
>
> >
> >
> > Marcus
> >
> >
> >
>
>

--

Go Fig

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Mar 18, 2002, 4:46:26 PM3/18/02
to
In article <1f99i7s.cms7wpym2tdsN%ll...@dada.it>,
ll...@dada.it (Luca Logi) wrote:

> Paul Tauger <ptauger...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> > It depends on your tastes. Unlike the more southern cities, Milan was
> > pretty well devastated during WWII, and has been completely rebuilt.
> > Other's have mentioned the Duomo and La Scala (definitely go if you can get
> > tickets, but they'll be expensive, particularly if purchased through your
> > hotel's concierge -- plan on at least double face value with an additional
> > payment to the concierge). In between Scala and the Duomo is Galleria
> > Vittori Emanuele, the world's first indoor mall, built in 1897 and quite
> > impressive.
>
>

> Just to remind that at present La Scala is closed for restoration and
> opera performances are in the very periferic Arcimboldi theatre.
>

How long is this for.... this area has been hit hard over the years,
Linea 3 had a big impact and when I was there 2 years ago it appears
they still havent decided what to do with space between La Scala and the
Galleria... Ive always known to have a pile of dirt in it ... and the
poor #1 tram having to stop someplace else... but my experience is just
a few snapshots over time. I was at the opening gala of Swan Lake many
years ago... w/ Weller and Stern... I didnt nod off even once.

jay
Mon, Mar 18, 2002
mailto:go...@mac.com


>

> -- -----------------------------------------------------
> Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: ll...@dada.it
> Home page: http://www.angelfire.com/ar/archivarius
> (musicologia pratica)

--

Aramis

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Mar 18, 2002, 4:56:56 PM3/18/02
to
No

"Marcus Holmes" <mho...@world.std.com> wrote in message
news:a72tpo$cvo$1...@pcls4.std.com...
>

Philip & Karen Selwyn

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Mar 18, 2002, 5:13:26 PM3/18/02
to
Luca Logi wrote:
>
> Just to remind that at present La Scala is closed for restoration and
> opera performances are in the very periferic Arcimboldi theatre.


Even the museum? La Scala was dark the day when we were in Milan;
England's Royal Ballet Company was installing scenery for its run.
However, we thoroughly enjoyed the time we spent investigating the
museum.

Karen Selwyn

Marcus Holmes

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Mar 18, 2002, 5:43:38 PM3/18/02
to

> You can also do a nice day trip from Milan to Lake Como, and even take a
> hydrofoil ride to Bellagio.

Paul, how many days do you suggest to spend in Milan if we'd like to hit
Florence and Venice as well in a two week period.

How far is Lake Como from Milan? Is this something I could arrange with the
hotel upon arrival or should I book reservations for a train/tour
beforehand?


Thanks!

Marcus

R J Carpenter

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Mar 18, 2002, 5:54:18 PM3/18/02
to
Jenn wrote:
>
> In article <3C9656...@erols.com>, rca...@erols.com wrote:
>
> > You didn't mention Ravenna, which I think is remarkable and worth at
> > least a half-day.
>
> Going to a bunch of places worth 'half a day' is a good way to create a
> hectic unsatisfying experience.

I visited Ravenna during a one-day train trip from Venice to Florence.
AFAIK the "interesting" little train through the mountains from Ravenna
to Florence no long operates, so I'm not sure if this is still
practical. Yes, it was a hurried visit to Ravenna, but that was better
than not at all.

Bob C.

hamilton

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Mar 18, 2002, 8:50:11 PM3/18/02
to
In article <a75m86$j2b22$1...@ID-101118.news.dfncis.de>, "Paul Tauger"
<ptauger...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> "Luca Logi" <ll...@dada.it> wrote in message
> news:1f99i7s.cms7wpym2tdsN%ll...@dada.it...
> > Paul Tauger <ptauger...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > It depends on your tastes. Unlike the more southern cities, Milan was
> > > pretty well devastated during WWII, and has been completely rebuilt.
> > > Other's have mentioned the Duomo and La Scala (definitely go if you can
> get
> > > tickets, but they'll be expensive, particularly if purchased through
> your
> > > hotel's concierge -- plan on at least double face value with an
> additional
> > > payment to the concierge). In between Scala and the Duomo is Galleria
> > > Vittori Emanuele, the world's first indoor mall, built in 1897 and quite
> > > impressive.
> >
> >
> > Just to remind that at present La Scala is closed for restoration and
> > opera performances are in the very periferic Arcimboldi theatre.
>
> Ah, I didn't know that. I guess we were lucky to see the "old" Scala when we
> did.

all 'old' opera houses in Europe are much restored -- when La Scala is
finished, it will still be the 'old' La Scala -- just cleaner

heck how many times has La Fenice been totally rebuilt, including in the
past few years

Paul Tauger

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Mar 19, 2002, 12:33:14 AM3/19/02
to

"Marcus Holmes" <mho...@world.std.com> wrote in message
news:a75qrd$e7a$1...@pcls4.std.com...

>
> > You can also do a nice day trip from Milan to Lake Como, and even take a
> > hydrofoil ride to Bellagio.
>
> Paul, how many days do you suggest to spend in Milan if we'd like to hit
> Florence and Venice as well in a two week period.

Two nights in Venice is the bare minimum, three for Florence. You can
easily do 3 or 4 nights in Venice, and 5 in Florence. That leaves 4 nights
for Milan. You _might_ try this:

Fly into Milan. Stay 3 nights.
Train to Venice. Stay 3 nights
Train to Florence. Stay 4 nights
Train to Rome. Stay 4 nights.
Fly home from Rome.

This is a little tighter than I would ordinarily suggest, but it's doable if
you're organized and don't tire easily The train rides are relatively
short -- 3 hours or so for the most part. Though this wouldn't be a
particularly restful vacation, you'll see a lot and can even work in a day
trip or two.

>
> How far is Lake Como from Milan?

1 hour by train, which run quite frequently. The town of Como is quite
pretty, though a bit touristy. IIRC, the hydrofoil to Bellagio was about 40
minutes or so. The scenery is spectacular, and there are some nice
restaurants in Bellagio for lunch.

> Is this something I could arrange with the
> hotel upon arrival or should I book reservations for a train/tour
> beforehand?

You don't need to arrange it in advance. We did it on an impulse. We were
walking around Milan one morning, and my wife mentioned that Como was
supposed to be nice. We took the subway to train station, caught the next
train out to Como and were there in time for an early lunch. We looked
around Como, had some espresso in a cafe, watched the bussed-in tourists
(ugh!) and wandered down to the dock area where the hydrofoils were. We
bought tickets, hopped aboard, and found ourselves in Bellagio shortly
thereafter. There was plenty of time to look around Bellagio, see the
shops, and have a snack. We caught an afternoon hydrofoil back, grabbed a 7
pm train back to Milan, and were back in more than enough time for dinner
(they eat late in Milan).

>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Marcus
>
>
>


Decobabe

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Mar 19, 2002, 1:13:02 AM3/19/02
to

"Paul Tauger" <ptauger...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:a75lsj$j0aos$1...@ID-101118.news.dfncis.de...

>
> "Marcus Holmes" <mho...@world.std.com> wrote in message
> news:a72tpo$cvo$1...@pcls4.std.com...
> >
> > > If it were me, I would choose two of the cities -- and then something
> > > smaller e.g. Florence/Siena/Rome or Venice/Rome/Sorrento or
> > > Venice/Florence/Siena
> >
> > Well as it turns out we're going to be flying into Milan so maybe we'll
> just
> > do the triangle of Milan - Venice - Florence.
> >
> > Is there much worthwhile to see in Milan?
>
> It depends on your tastes. Unlike the more southern cities, Milan was
> pretty well devastated during WWII, and has been completely rebuilt.
> Other's have mentioned the Duomo and La Scala (definitely go if you can
get
> tickets, but they'll be expensive, particularly if purchased through your
> hotel's concierge -- plan on at least double face value with an additional
> payment to the concierge> > Marcus

How come no one mentions "The Last Supper?" It surely must be one of the
most famous works of art in the world, it isn't moving from Milan, but no
one mentions it.
I have always been treated very well in Milan, but still have never
developed a warmth for it.


Paul Tauger

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Mar 19, 2002, 1:29:29 AM3/19/02
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"Decobabe" <decobab...@libero.it> wrote in message
news:KFAl8.39176$1S3.1...@twister1.libero.it...

I was under the impression that it was no longer open to the public. We
went to see it the first time we were in Milan. Though it is sad to see how
its condition has deteriorated, it was still quite an experience to see this
masterpiece "in the flesh."

> I have always been treated very well in Milan, but still have never
> developed a warmth for it.

One of the most enjoyable experiences for us in Milan was to eat at some of
the very fine restaurants that the locals visit.

>
>


Philip & Karen Selwyn

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Mar 19, 2002, 6:47:08 AM3/19/02
to
Paul Tauger wrote:
>
> > How come no one mentions "The Last Supper?"
>
> I was under the impression that it was no longer open to the public.
> We went to see it the first time we were in Milan. Though it is sad
> to see how its condition has deteriorated, it was still quite an
> experience to see this masterpiece "in the flesh."

It has been restored, cleaning away layers of paint from earlier
restorations and returning the painting to scholars' informed vision of
Leonardo's original. It had re-opened to public viewing as of our visit
to Milan in '00. Reservations are essential. My notes from our trip
include the following phone numbers:
199.199.100 if calling from Italy
(+39) 02 8 942 1146 if calling from abroad

The viewing experience is quite regimented: the number of people who can
view the painting at any time is limited as is the amount of time you
are actually in the presence of the painting. First, you are held as a
group in a hallway. Next, you are moved into a waiting room. Finally,
you are moved into the refectory which contains the painting. The actual
viewing time is calibrated to coincide with the duration of an
interesting tape dealing with the painting. The painting is glorious and
triumphs over any irritation over the viewing conditions.

> One of the most enjoyable experiences for us in Milan was to eat at
> some of the very fine restaurants that the locals visit.

Here are my restaurant notes from '00.

Ristorante Nabucco $70
Via Fiori Chiari, 10
39 02860663
FAX: 39 028361014

Comments: restaurant located on a pedestrian street with large pleasant
outdoor eating area; Stand-out dishes: black fettucine with squid,
traditional-style meat-stuffed tortellini with butter, and osso bucco;
As an antipasta selection consider the ham with melon. It may seem like
same old-same old but the ham is one we'd never encountered before and
was a real treat. The type of ham began with an "L" and tastes smokier
than either Parma ham or proscuitto.

Ristorante Moon Fish $28
Via Bagutta, 2
02 76 00 57 80
FAX: 02 76 39 23 22

Comments: Sure it's in the designer shopping area, but the dish we ate
was an amazing value; we each ordered linguine with seafood at $10; the
pasta was piled high with more seafood than I have seen in any other
versions of this dish in any other restaurant; the back pages of the
menu were written in English but the translations weren't always great;
we read from the Italian menu and used the labeled pictures of the fish
and shellfish inside the menu cover to handle any unfamiliar varieties
(e.g. Sea Robin); continuing my theme of a surprise bargain restaurant,
if you want to make lunch your big meal of the day, Moon Fish offered an
appealing three or four ( I think it was four but there was an ambiguity
in the way it was written in the menu) course set lunch menu for $16;
the sibling restaurant -- which is a meat and pasta place -- is called
Paper Moon; that is a much glossier place than Moon Fish; At Paper Moon,
pictures of movie stars from the 40s line the walls and the diners were
quite coiffed and dressed; we stopped there first but there were no
seats available so they steered us to Moon Fish

Ristorante Scaletta $125
P. le Stazione di Porta Genova, 3
02 58 10 02 90
FAX: 02 83 61 014

Comments: stunningly beautiful restaurant (three small rooms with a
Carlo Moretti chandelier hanging in each of the rooms; clusters of
contemporary Venetian glass vases arrayed along shelves in each room);
in a trip filled with good eating, this was the best food of all!!!
Stand-out dishes: lightly smoked beef (almost carpaccio) with mixed
greens and chunks of Pecorino cheese from Pienza and pasta with veal
sauce; Sublime dishes: Veal cutlet stuffed with asparagus and cheese
wrapped in phyllo dough, Turbot filet topped with a duxelle of mushrooms
and paper-thin slices of potato, and mixed wild berries with
Balsamic-flavored ice-cream in a cookie cup; service was totally amazing
blending warmth and polished professional attentiveness (e.g. the waiter
followed up with the chef about the degree of aging for the Pecorino
cheese when he learned we had spent a week in Pienza last year);
excellent wine recommendation -- the waiter introduced us to Ruche, a
red which went equally well with both the veal and fish dishes;
everything about this restaurant combined to make our least meal in
Italy a very special experience

Karen Selwyn

Sarah Murray

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Mar 19, 2002, 8:16:19 AM3/19/02
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Thankyou very much for letting me know about Ravenna, is is a quiet
village, could you tell me a little bit more about what it is like as
I am hopefully going to Florence in July and would like to know nice
places to visit.

Thanks Sarah

Jenn

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Mar 19, 2002, 10:38:56 AM3/19/02
to
In article <KFAl8.39176$1S3.1...@twister1.libero.it>, "Decobabe"
<decobab...@libero.it> wrote:

The last Supper doesn't really exist -- the 'restoration' consisted of
removing years of overpainting leaving pretty much a bare wall with a
little paint here and there -- it is interesting as a curiosity -- but not
a very interesting art experience -- not worth stealing a day from
Florence or Venice or Rome to hang around to see IMHO. This painting was
revolutionary in its day -- but it is gone now.

Ken Blake

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Mar 19, 2002, 12:19:34 PM3/19/02
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"Jenn" <Jen...@MLHOLL.com> wrote in message
news:JennML-1803...@a198154.n1.vanderbilt.edu...


I couldn't agree more. I too think Ravenna is wonderful. But
there are lots of wonderful places in Italy and you can't see
them all in only two weeks. It's necessary to be selective, not
try to do everything in one visit, and try to return to see other
places another time.


> We didn't even see Rome till our 3rd trip
> to Italy -- and we spent 5 days there on the first visit. Less
is more.


That's worth repeating: Less is more.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

Ken Blake

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Mar 19, 2002, 12:22:13 PM3/19/02
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"hamilton" <hami...@dnvln.com> wrote in message
news:hamilton-180...@host-209-214-117-156.bna.bellsouth
.net...

> heck how many times has La Fenice been totally rebuilt,
including in the
> past few years


Last time I was in Venice, two years ago, it was still being
rebuilt after the recent fire. Has it been finished and is it now
reopened?

hamilton

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Mar 19, 2002, 10:44:46 PM3/19/02
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In article <1f9b9xk.9pahay1w9bqsgN%ll...@dada.it>, ll...@dada.it (Luca
Logi) wrote:

> Ken Blake <kbl...@this.is.an.invalid.domain.com> wrote:
>
>
> > Last time I was in Venice, two years ago, it was still being
> > rebuilt after the recent fire. Has it been finished and is it now
> > reopened?
>
>

> no

I feel so lucky. My husband and I talked our way into a dress rehearsal
in the early 90s -- it was a terrific once in a lifetime experience --
even if the place hadn't burned down. Now that it has we feel
particularly blessed to have experienced it.

Hank

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Mar 24, 2002, 2:08:15 PM3/24/02
to
EGADS! A whole week in Palermo! Surely you jest. Sicily does have
many charms, but Palermo would not make my list of places to stay for
more than 1 or 2 days.

Hank

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 19:56:58 -0700, "Ken Blake"
<kbl...@this.is.an.invalid.domain.com> wrote:

>"Marcus Holmes" <mho...@world.std.com> wrote in message

>news:a710c1$57d$1...@pcls4.std.com...


>
>> Never been to Italy. Going there for 2 weeks in June. What are
>your
>> recommendations of cities to visit and how long to stay in
>each?
>
>

>Rome - 2 weeks
>Venice - 2 weeks
>Florence - 2 weeks
>Siena - 1 week
>Capri - 1 week
>Bologna - 3 days
>Parma - 3 days
>Palermo - 1 week
>Taormina - 1 week
>Siracusa - 1 week
>Lucca - 3 days
>Perugia - 3 days
>etc.

ady

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Mar 24, 2002, 10:01:48 PM3/24/02
to
I spent 2 weeks in Italy end of last year - Rome for a week and Venice
for a week. Both I enjoyed and both also allowed me to venture out to
the other towns on the outskirts for day-trips.

Rgds,
Ady
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/adys.geo/">Ady's Malaysian Links</a>

Andrew Nightingale

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Mar 25, 2002, 5:11:06 AM3/25/02
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> Any idea on where I can buy train tickets online? The Trenitalia site
won't
> let me book for June...

It is very easy to buy the tickets when you're there. There can be long
queues at the ticket offices but there are also automatic machines at these
main destinations which have English (indicated by a Union Jack) and accept
Euros or cards. Note that when buying your tickets (whether on the site or
at the station) fares differ according to the type of train you are
travelling on and some trains require reservations, though you can usually
get these very shortly before the train departs. Alternatively, return to
trenitalia one or two months before you leave. Fares are very modest on all
trains in Italy (by UK standards). There are lots of trains every day
between Rome, Florence, Milan and Venice. Remember to stamp your tickets in
the little orange machines you will see everywhere and will see everyone
using before boarding your train.

--
Andrew Nightingale of Cambridge (UK)


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