Thanks!
Marcus
Rome - 2 weeks
Venice - 2 weeks
Florence - 2 weeks
Siena - 1 week
Capri - 1 week
Bologna - 3 days
Parma - 3 days
Palermo - 1 week
Taormina - 1 week
Siracusa - 1 week
Lucca - 3 days
Perugia - 3 days
etc.
--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup
No Milan?
Marcus
No, skip Milan, but add 2 weeks touring the lakes, another week for Sorrento
and the Amalfi Coast, and 3 days in Cinque Terre. Oh, and then there's
Tuscany...and Umbria...
(I may have to move there.)
Marianne
"Marcus Holmes" <mho...@world.std.com> wrote in message
news:a710c1$57d$1...@pcls4.std.com...
Dear Marcus,
in two weeks only it's very difficult to make a selection. In my
opinion you should fix only one or two top cities (in my opinion the
top cities are: Venezia, Firenze, Roma and Napoli) and then travelling
between the two cities you will discover a less known italy guided by
you istinct. Buy a good guide book and try to find the most interting
(for you) place between Venezia and Rome.
Ciao
Giovanni Sonego
------------------------------------
http://forum.italiaplease.com/guests
THE ITALIAN TOURISM CONNECTION
....................................
Per rispondere rimuovi SCOAZZE
It (and a lot of other places) are included within the etc. I got
tired of naming cities.
Probably 3 days in Venice then Florence, 1 day to travel to Sorrento, 3
days in Sorrento and the rest in Rome. Assuming two weeks with weekends
on both ends this would work. I put Sorrento in the middle to get some
rest but if you try the Amalfi coast, Capri, Pompeii, & Herculanium
there will be little rest.
The suggestion is for a moderate amount of traveling with a reasonable
introduction to each area. Clearly you will not see everything in 2
weeks but it's a start and you should see the well known stuff.
Any of the four could take a week and Rome the whole two.
Frank Matthews
I think I will probably just stick with Rome, Florence and Venice for this
trip. I'm weary of adding too many cities!
Thanks for your recommendation. It has been helpful.
Any idea on where I can buy train tickets online? The Trenitalia site won't
let me book for June...
Marcus
If it were me, I would choose two of the cities -- and then something
smaller e.g. Florence/Siena/Rome or Venice/Rome/Sorrento or
Venice/Florence/Siena
less is more
Well as it turns out we're going to be flying into Milan so maybe we'll just
do the triangle of Milan - Venice - Florence.
Is there much worthwhile to see in Milan?
Marcus
Marcus Holmes wrote:
There is a large duomo (cathedral) and a good opera, La Scala. Lots
of shopping especially clothes.
with so little time -- Milan is really not worth much time IMHO. the
Cathedral [walk around on the roof] is wonderful and a must see -- but
forget the rest. You might want to add Verona or Siena to the mix. But
Venice and Florence are good choices. Florence is all about art -- so be
sure to make reservations for the Uffizi before you get there.
Have you spent more than an overnight in Milan ?
jay
Sun, Mar 17, 2002
mailto:go...@mac.com
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
This depends on your interests. Two weeks is not a lot of time.
What are your interests. For me, the choice would be easy. I
would split the time between Rome and Florence. You might
want to buy one of the many travel guidebooks for Italy in
order to get some ideas. Rick Steves has an excellent book. I
also had good experience with the "Let's Go: Italy" book.
Marcus, if you want to visit Milan, then by all means, do so.
That depends on what your definition of "worthwhile" is, but in all
likelihood,
you'll find sites to hold your interest there.
That would be true if you parachuted randomly into any part of Italy --
but the guy has two weeks -- with only two weeks, I sure wouldn't spend a
big chunk of it in Milan.
Thanks for your permission. That's not exactly what I meant by questioning
Milan not being on the list. I was questioning why it isn't on the list.
Marcus
If you enjoy meats, then this area is a gastronomical adventure. The area
specializes in "cinghiale" (wild boar) and other game.
Buon viaggio,
Ciao
"hamilton" <hami...@dnvln.com> wrote in message
news:hamilton-170...@host-216-76-151-55.bna.bellsouth.net...
"Marcus Holmes" <mho...@world.std.com> wrote in message
news:a72opg$65g$1...@pcls4.std.com...
oh yes -- and I don't dispute that Milan offers many pleasures to the
tourist BUT for someone on a first trip to Italy with only two weeks, I
think Milan would be a waste of his time if he has other options.
> When in Florence, we did a late afternoon/evening trip to Siena and had a
> nice time. I can't remember exactly how long the train ride was, but I
> don't remember it being much more than an hour each way.
and the bus is even better because it deposits you right at the edge of
the historic center -- whereas the train station is a long walk or cab
ride away.
Siena is such a pleasure early and late, that at least an overnight should
be done if possible. Midnight on the campo -- very romantic place for a
late night moonlight drink.
Marcus Holmes wrote:
>
> Never been to Italy. Going there for 2 weeks in June. What are your
> recommendations of cities to visit and how long to stay in each?
I'm going to weigh in here because it looks as though you're considering
bagging Rome. Rome is one of my favorite cities in the world, not just
in Italy. I would suggest five nights in Rome. Then take the train to
Florence and stop off for a day in either Arezzo or Orvieto, both right
on the train line. Then spend four nights in Florence and two or three
nights in Venice. If you're flying out of Rome, you can return there for
a final night and to three some coins in the Trevi fountain.
Barbara
You didn't mention Ravenna, which I think is remarkable and worth at
least a half-day.
It depends on your tastes. Unlike the more southern cities, Milan was
pretty well devastated during WWII, and has been completely rebuilt.
Other's have mentioned the Duomo and La Scala (definitely go if you can get
tickets, but they'll be expensive, particularly if purchased through your
hotel's concierge -- plan on at least double face value with an additional
payment to the concierge). In between Scala and the Duomo is Galleria
Vittori Emanuele, the world's first indoor mall, built in 1897 and quite
impressive.
You can also do a nice day trip from Milan to Lake Como, and even take a
hydrofoil ride to Bellagio.
>
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
Going to a bunch of places worth 'half a day' is a good way to create a
hectic unsatisfying experience. We didn't even see Rome till our 3rd trip
to Italy -- and we spent 5 days there on the first visit. Less is more.
The important thing is to make some choices and not spend all the time on
logistics of moving about and checking in and out of hotels. Barbara's
plan is doable -- although if it were me, I would drop one of the big
three and do two cities and spend a few intervening days in a smaller spot
e.g. Siena or Orvieto or Voltera or Ravenna.
I'm not sure I agree with you about Milan. I've been a couple of times,
once for pleasure, once on business, and enjoyed the city immensely each
time.
Florence is about art, but also abouta perfectly preserved renaissance city.
Walk through central Florence at dusk and you can easily imagine being back
in the 16th century.
This is the best advice anyone can give. Tastes differ, and knowing what's
available ahead of time will help you determine your itinerary.
Plus, it's fun!
Ah, I didn't know that. I guess we were lucky to see the "old" Scala when we
did.
>
>
>
> -- -----------------------------------------------------
> Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: ll...@dada.it
> Home page: http://www.angelfire.com/ar/archivarius
> (musicologia pratica)
> "Marcus Holmes" <mho...@world.std.com> wrote in message
> news:a72tpo$cvo$1...@pcls4.std.com...
> >
> > > If it were me, I would choose two of the cities -- and then something
> > > smaller e.g. Florence/Siena/Rome or Venice/Rome/Sorrento or
> > > Venice/Florence/Siena
> >
> > Well as it turns out we're going to be flying into Milan so maybe we'll
> just
> > do the triangle of Milan - Venice - Florence.
> >
> > Is there much worthwhile to see in Milan?
>
> It depends on your tastes. Unlike the more southern cities, Milan was
> pretty well devastated during WWII, and has been completely rebuilt.
> Other's have mentioned the Duomo
The walk from the Duomo to the castle at dusk is quite nice... in the
other direction the best fashion shopping in the world.
jay
Mon, Mar 18, 2002
mailto:go...@mac.com
and La Scala (definitely go if you can get
> tickets, but they'll be expensive, particularly if purchased through your
> hotel's concierge -- plan on at least double face value with an additional
> payment to the concierge). In between Scala and the Duomo is Galleria
> Vittori Emanuele, the world's first indoor mall, built in 1897 and quite
> impressive.
>
> You can also do a nice day trip from Milan to Lake Como, and even take a
> hydrofoil ride to Bellagio.
>
>
> >
> >
> > Marcus
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
> Paul Tauger <ptauger...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> > It depends on your tastes. Unlike the more southern cities, Milan was
> > pretty well devastated during WWII, and has been completely rebuilt.
> > Other's have mentioned the Duomo and La Scala (definitely go if you can get
> > tickets, but they'll be expensive, particularly if purchased through your
> > hotel's concierge -- plan on at least double face value with an additional
> > payment to the concierge). In between Scala and the Duomo is Galleria
> > Vittori Emanuele, the world's first indoor mall, built in 1897 and quite
> > impressive.
>
>
> Just to remind that at present La Scala is closed for restoration and
> opera performances are in the very periferic Arcimboldi theatre.
>
How long is this for.... this area has been hit hard over the years,
Linea 3 had a big impact and when I was there 2 years ago it appears
they still havent decided what to do with space between La Scala and the
Galleria... Ive always known to have a pile of dirt in it ... and the
poor #1 tram having to stop someplace else... but my experience is just
a few snapshots over time. I was at the opening gala of Swan Lake many
years ago... w/ Weller and Stern... I didnt nod off even once.
jay
Mon, Mar 18, 2002
mailto:go...@mac.com
>
> -- -----------------------------------------------------
> Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: ll...@dada.it
> Home page: http://www.angelfire.com/ar/archivarius
> (musicologia pratica)
--
"Marcus Holmes" <mho...@world.std.com> wrote in message
news:a72tpo$cvo$1...@pcls4.std.com...
>
Even the museum? La Scala was dark the day when we were in Milan;
England's Royal Ballet Company was installing scenery for its run.
However, we thoroughly enjoyed the time we spent investigating the
museum.
Karen Selwyn
Paul, how many days do you suggest to spend in Milan if we'd like to hit
Florence and Venice as well in a two week period.
How far is Lake Como from Milan? Is this something I could arrange with the
hotel upon arrival or should I book reservations for a train/tour
beforehand?
Thanks!
Marcus
I visited Ravenna during a one-day train trip from Venice to Florence.
AFAIK the "interesting" little train through the mountains from Ravenna
to Florence no long operates, so I'm not sure if this is still
practical. Yes, it was a hurried visit to Ravenna, but that was better
than not at all.
Bob C.
> "Luca Logi" <ll...@dada.it> wrote in message
> news:1f99i7s.cms7wpym2tdsN%ll...@dada.it...
> > Paul Tauger <ptauger...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > It depends on your tastes. Unlike the more southern cities, Milan was
> > > pretty well devastated during WWII, and has been completely rebuilt.
> > > Other's have mentioned the Duomo and La Scala (definitely go if you can
> get
> > > tickets, but they'll be expensive, particularly if purchased through
> your
> > > hotel's concierge -- plan on at least double face value with an
> additional
> > > payment to the concierge). In between Scala and the Duomo is Galleria
> > > Vittori Emanuele, the world's first indoor mall, built in 1897 and quite
> > > impressive.
> >
> >
> > Just to remind that at present La Scala is closed for restoration and
> > opera performances are in the very periferic Arcimboldi theatre.
>
> Ah, I didn't know that. I guess we were lucky to see the "old" Scala when we
> did.
all 'old' opera houses in Europe are much restored -- when La Scala is
finished, it will still be the 'old' La Scala -- just cleaner
heck how many times has La Fenice been totally rebuilt, including in the
past few years
Two nights in Venice is the bare minimum, three for Florence. You can
easily do 3 or 4 nights in Venice, and 5 in Florence. That leaves 4 nights
for Milan. You _might_ try this:
Fly into Milan. Stay 3 nights.
Train to Venice. Stay 3 nights
Train to Florence. Stay 4 nights
Train to Rome. Stay 4 nights.
Fly home from Rome.
This is a little tighter than I would ordinarily suggest, but it's doable if
you're organized and don't tire easily The train rides are relatively
short -- 3 hours or so for the most part. Though this wouldn't be a
particularly restful vacation, you'll see a lot and can even work in a day
trip or two.
>
> How far is Lake Como from Milan?
1 hour by train, which run quite frequently. The town of Como is quite
pretty, though a bit touristy. IIRC, the hydrofoil to Bellagio was about 40
minutes or so. The scenery is spectacular, and there are some nice
restaurants in Bellagio for lunch.
> Is this something I could arrange with the
> hotel upon arrival or should I book reservations for a train/tour
> beforehand?
You don't need to arrange it in advance. We did it on an impulse. We were
walking around Milan one morning, and my wife mentioned that Como was
supposed to be nice. We took the subway to train station, caught the next
train out to Como and were there in time for an early lunch. We looked
around Como, had some espresso in a cafe, watched the bussed-in tourists
(ugh!) and wandered down to the dock area where the hydrofoils were. We
bought tickets, hopped aboard, and found ourselves in Bellagio shortly
thereafter. There was plenty of time to look around Bellagio, see the
shops, and have a snack. We caught an afternoon hydrofoil back, grabbed a 7
pm train back to Milan, and were back in more than enough time for dinner
(they eat late in Milan).
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
How come no one mentions "The Last Supper?" It surely must be one of the
most famous works of art in the world, it isn't moving from Milan, but no
one mentions it.
I have always been treated very well in Milan, but still have never
developed a warmth for it.
I was under the impression that it was no longer open to the public. We
went to see it the first time we were in Milan. Though it is sad to see how
its condition has deteriorated, it was still quite an experience to see this
masterpiece "in the flesh."
> I have always been treated very well in Milan, but still have never
> developed a warmth for it.
One of the most enjoyable experiences for us in Milan was to eat at some of
the very fine restaurants that the locals visit.
>
>
It has been restored, cleaning away layers of paint from earlier
restorations and returning the painting to scholars' informed vision of
Leonardo's original. It had re-opened to public viewing as of our visit
to Milan in '00. Reservations are essential. My notes from our trip
include the following phone numbers:
199.199.100 if calling from Italy
(+39) 02 8 942 1146 if calling from abroad
The viewing experience is quite regimented: the number of people who can
view the painting at any time is limited as is the amount of time you
are actually in the presence of the painting. First, you are held as a
group in a hallway. Next, you are moved into a waiting room. Finally,
you are moved into the refectory which contains the painting. The actual
viewing time is calibrated to coincide with the duration of an
interesting tape dealing with the painting. The painting is glorious and
triumphs over any irritation over the viewing conditions.
> One of the most enjoyable experiences for us in Milan was to eat at
> some of the very fine restaurants that the locals visit.
Here are my restaurant notes from '00.
Ristorante Nabucco $70
Via Fiori Chiari, 10
39 02860663
FAX: 39 028361014
Comments: restaurant located on a pedestrian street with large pleasant
outdoor eating area; Stand-out dishes: black fettucine with squid,
traditional-style meat-stuffed tortellini with butter, and osso bucco;
As an antipasta selection consider the ham with melon. It may seem like
same old-same old but the ham is one we'd never encountered before and
was a real treat. The type of ham began with an "L" and tastes smokier
than either Parma ham or proscuitto.
Ristorante Moon Fish $28
Via Bagutta, 2
02 76 00 57 80
FAX: 02 76 39 23 22
Comments: Sure it's in the designer shopping area, but the dish we ate
was an amazing value; we each ordered linguine with seafood at $10; the
pasta was piled high with more seafood than I have seen in any other
versions of this dish in any other restaurant; the back pages of the
menu were written in English but the translations weren't always great;
we read from the Italian menu and used the labeled pictures of the fish
and shellfish inside the menu cover to handle any unfamiliar varieties
(e.g. Sea Robin); continuing my theme of a surprise bargain restaurant,
if you want to make lunch your big meal of the day, Moon Fish offered an
appealing three or four ( I think it was four but there was an ambiguity
in the way it was written in the menu) course set lunch menu for $16;
the sibling restaurant -- which is a meat and pasta place -- is called
Paper Moon; that is a much glossier place than Moon Fish; At Paper Moon,
pictures of movie stars from the 40s line the walls and the diners were
quite coiffed and dressed; we stopped there first but there were no
seats available so they steered us to Moon Fish
Ristorante Scaletta $125
P. le Stazione di Porta Genova, 3
02 58 10 02 90
FAX: 02 83 61 014
Comments: stunningly beautiful restaurant (three small rooms with a
Carlo Moretti chandelier hanging in each of the rooms; clusters of
contemporary Venetian glass vases arrayed along shelves in each room);
in a trip filled with good eating, this was the best food of all!!!
Stand-out dishes: lightly smoked beef (almost carpaccio) with mixed
greens and chunks of Pecorino cheese from Pienza and pasta with veal
sauce; Sublime dishes: Veal cutlet stuffed with asparagus and cheese
wrapped in phyllo dough, Turbot filet topped with a duxelle of mushrooms
and paper-thin slices of potato, and mixed wild berries with
Balsamic-flavored ice-cream in a cookie cup; service was totally amazing
blending warmth and polished professional attentiveness (e.g. the waiter
followed up with the chef about the degree of aging for the Pecorino
cheese when he learned we had spent a week in Pienza last year);
excellent wine recommendation -- the waiter introduced us to Ruche, a
red which went equally well with both the veal and fish dishes;
everything about this restaurant combined to make our least meal in
Italy a very special experience
Karen Selwyn
Thanks Sarah
The last Supper doesn't really exist -- the 'restoration' consisted of
removing years of overpainting leaving pretty much a bare wall with a
little paint here and there -- it is interesting as a curiosity -- but not
a very interesting art experience -- not worth stealing a day from
Florence or Venice or Rome to hang around to see IMHO. This painting was
revolutionary in its day -- but it is gone now.
I couldn't agree more. I too think Ravenna is wonderful. But
there are lots of wonderful places in Italy and you can't see
them all in only two weeks. It's necessary to be selective, not
try to do everything in one visit, and try to return to see other
places another time.
> We didn't even see Rome till our 3rd trip
> to Italy -- and we spent 5 days there on the first visit. Less
is more.
That's worth repeating: Less is more.
--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup
> heck how many times has La Fenice been totally rebuilt,
including in the
> past few years
Last time I was in Venice, two years ago, it was still being
rebuilt after the recent fire. Has it been finished and is it now
reopened?
> Ken Blake <kbl...@this.is.an.invalid.domain.com> wrote:
>
>
> > Last time I was in Venice, two years ago, it was still being
> > rebuilt after the recent fire. Has it been finished and is it now
> > reopened?
>
>
> no
I feel so lucky. My husband and I talked our way into a dress rehearsal
in the early 90s -- it was a terrific once in a lifetime experience --
even if the place hadn't burned down. Now that it has we feel
particularly blessed to have experienced it.
Hank
On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 19:56:58 -0700, "Ken Blake"
<kbl...@this.is.an.invalid.domain.com> wrote:
>"Marcus Holmes" <mho...@world.std.com> wrote in message
>news:a710c1$57d$1...@pcls4.std.com...
>
>> Never been to Italy. Going there for 2 weeks in June. What are
>your
>> recommendations of cities to visit and how long to stay in
>each?
>
>
>Rome - 2 weeks
>Venice - 2 weeks
>Florence - 2 weeks
>Siena - 1 week
>Capri - 1 week
>Bologna - 3 days
>Parma - 3 days
>Palermo - 1 week
>Taormina - 1 week
>Siracusa - 1 week
>Lucca - 3 days
>Perugia - 3 days
>etc.
Rgds,
Ady
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/adys.geo/">Ady's Malaysian Links</a>
It is very easy to buy the tickets when you're there. There can be long
queues at the ticket offices but there are also automatic machines at these
main destinations which have English (indicated by a Union Jack) and accept
Euros or cards. Note that when buying your tickets (whether on the site or
at the station) fares differ according to the type of train you are
travelling on and some trains require reservations, though you can usually
get these very shortly before the train departs. Alternatively, return to
trenitalia one or two months before you leave. Fares are very modest on all
trains in Italy (by UK standards). There are lots of trains every day
between Rome, Florence, Milan and Venice. Remember to stamp your tickets in
the little orange machines you will see everywhere and will see everyone
using before boarding your train.
--
Andrew Nightingale of Cambridge (UK)