How long before europe looks like the USA

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QUEKE

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Nov 10, 2004, 7:33:44 PM11/10/04
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With all the McDonalds,Starbucks,KFCs and Disneys etc... how long before any
city in europe looks just like the typical generic US City.


R@L

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Nov 10, 2004, 7:42:13 PM11/10/04
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"QUEKE" <qu...@nsa.gov> wrote in message
news:2vfqb9F...@uni-berlin.de...

> With all the McDonalds,Starbucks,KFCs and Disneys etc... how long before
> any city in europe looks just like the typical generic US City.
>
McDonalds is everywhere, good show!
Starbucks is mainly in tea countries and not in countries with a coffee
tradition.
KFC is not very successful in Europe.
Disney there is only one, in Paris France.

Ronald


Douglas W. Hoyt

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Nov 10, 2004, 8:54:38 PM11/10/04
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>>>>> With all the McDonalds,Starbucks,KFCs and Disneys etc... how long
>>>>> before any city in europe looks just like the typical generic US
>>>>> City.

No, Europe will continue to have its unique character thanks to the H&M's,
C&A's, M&S's, Mangos, Naf-Nafs, and all the other ETC.'s.


Beowulf

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Nov 10, 2004, 9:37:40 PM11/10/04
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On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:33:44 -0500, QUEKE wrote:

> With all the McDonalds,Starbucks,KFCs and Disneys etc... how long before any
> city in europe looks just like the typical generic US City.

..

It makes me SICK to see a golden arch on the Champs-Elysee in Paris-- what
were the french thinking by allowing it to be there-- at least keep it off
the main historical beautiful streets.

nospam

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Nov 10, 2004, 9:46:00 PM11/10/04
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> With all the McDonalds,Starbucks,KFCs and Disneys etc... how
> long before any city in europe looks just like the typical generic
> US City.

With few exceptions, the oldest buildings in the USA are from the
1800s, and the vast majority are from the 1900s. Europe has many
cities - Riga, Prague, Tallinn, Krakow, Moscow, etc - with medieval
era buildings. Europe has many cities - Vienna, St. Petersburg, Paris,
Copenhagen, Bavaria (a region, not a city), etc - with lots of Baroque
(and earlier) palaces

The only major European city I can think of that strongly resembles
an American city is Helsinki, mainly due to the fact that it is only
about 100 years old. And even then it does not look American,
thought it does have lots of fast food joints. When you leave the
university - or is it high school - you might travel to Europe and
see for yourself.


Pete


Gregory Morrow

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Nov 10, 2004, 11:29:03 PM11/10/04
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nospam wrote:

> The only major European city I can think of that strongly resembles
> an American city is Helsinki, mainly due to the fact that it is only
> about 100 years old.


I'd add Berlin to that list, reminds me a bit of Chicago...

--
Best
Greg


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Gregory Morrow

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Nov 11, 2004, 1:01:51 AM11/11/04
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Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:

> Beowulf <beo...@nowhere.net> wrote in
> news:pan.2004.11.11....@nowhere.net:

> Do you have French food stands in American cities? If so, do you think
they
> spoil the experience and should be banned?


We have Burger Kings which IIRC are British - owned and I feel no particular
revulsion towards them...

--
Best
Greg

Gregory Morrow

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Nov 11, 2004, 1:03:16 AM11/11/04
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Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:

> "R@L" <re...@usenet.com> wrote in
> news:4f911$4192b602$513b789c$15...@news1.zonnet.nl:


>
> > Starbucks is mainly in tea countries and not in countries with a
> > coffee tradition.
>

> Starbucks is in Germany.


And in Vienna, too...

--
Best
Greg

Tim Challenger

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Nov 11, 2004, 4:11:23 AM11/11/04
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On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 01:42:13 +0100, R@L wrote:

> Starbucks is mainly in tea countries and not in countries with a coffee
> tradition.

It was headline news here when the first Starbucks in Austria opened up.
--
Tim C.

Tim Challenger

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Nov 11, 2004, 4:13:45 AM11/11/04
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On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 06:03:16 GMT, Gregory Morrow wrote:

> Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
>
>> "R@L" <re...@usenet.com> wrote in
>> news:4f911$4192b602$513b789c$15...@news1.zonnet.nl:
>>
>>> Starbucks is mainly in tea countries and not in countries with a
>>> coffee tradition.
>>
>> Starbucks is in Germany.

German coffee is nearly as bad as English coffee. ;-)


> And in Vienna, too...
But that's the only one in Austria afaik. (so far, so good)
There's a Julius Meindl in Chicago (or Detroit or somewhere like that), so
it's evens.

--
Tim C.

Mark Hewitt

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Nov 11, 2004, 5:08:48 AM11/11/04
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"Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowLU...@earthlink.net> wrote in
message news:jfDkd.11528$Gm6....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...

>
>
> We have Burger Kings which IIRC are British - owned and I feel no
> particular
> revulsion towards them...

No it's an American company. But the restaurant franchises are British owned
of course, but then that's exactly the same as McDonalds.


Mark Hewitt

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Nov 11, 2004, 5:06:39 AM11/11/04
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"QUEKE" <qu...@nsa.gov> wrote in message
news:2vfqb9F...@uni-berlin.de...
> With all the McDonalds,Starbucks,KFCs and Disneys etc... how long before
> any city in europe looks just like the typical generic US City.

5 years ago!

Mark Hewitt

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Nov 11, 2004, 5:09:36 AM11/11/04
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"Bjorn Olsson" <bjo...@ida.his.se> wrote in message
news:42e37e54.04111...@posting.google.com...
> "nospam" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:<InAkd.23548$KJ6....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>...

>> > With all the McDonalds,Starbucks,KFCs and Disneys etc... how
>> > long before any city in europe looks just like the typical generic
>> > US City.
>>
>> With few exceptions, the oldest buildings in the USA are from the
>> 1800s, and the vast majority are from the 1900s. Europe has many
>> cities - Riga, Prague, Tallinn, Krakow, Moscow, etc - with medieval
>> era buildings. Europe has many cities - Vienna, St. Petersburg, Paris,
>> Copenhagen, Bavaria (a region, not a city), etc - with lots of Baroque
>> (and earlier) palaces
>>
>> The only major European city I can think of that strongly resembles
>> an American city is Helsinki, mainly due to the fact that it is only
>> about 100 years old.
>
> Helsinki was founded in 1505.

That doesn't mean much. How many of the current buildings date from that
era?


R@L

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Nov 11, 2004, 5:21:14 AM11/11/04
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"Wolfgang Schwanke" <s...@sig.nature> wrote in message
news:5rtumc...@wschwanke.de...

> "R@L" <re...@usenet.com> wrote in
> news:4f911$4192b602$513b789c$15...@news1.zonnet.nl:
>
>> Starbucks is mainly in tea countries and not in countries with a
>> coffee tradition.
>
> Starbucks is in Germany.
>
> Regards
>
> --
> "Es gibt hin und wieder gesellschaftliche Strömungen, die sich später als
> falsch herausstellen. Beim Faschismus wissen wir es inzwischen, beim
> Kommunismus auch. Beim Neoliberalismus steht der Beweis noch aus."
> (Klarsichtiger Politiker in einer TV-Sendung)

Germans drink louzy coffee -like American- and even Erzats -fake- coffee.
On top of that they have a special coffee tax!

Ronald


Gregory Morrow

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Nov 11, 2004, 5:32:37 AM11/11/04
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Tim Challenger wrote:


It's in my neighborhood here in Chicago...

--
Best
Greg
>
> --
> Tim C.


Tim Challenger

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Nov 11, 2004, 5:37:22 AM11/11/04
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On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:32:37 GMT, Gregory Morrow wrote:

>>>>> Starbucks is mainly in tea countries and not in countries with a
>>>>> coffee tradition.
>>>>
>>>> Starbucks is in Germany.
>> German coffee is nearly as bad as English coffee. ;-)
>>
>>
>>> And in Vienna, too...
>> But that's the only one in Austria afaik. (so far, so good)
>> There's a Julius Meindl in Chicago (or Detroit or somewhere like that), so
>> it's evens.
>
> It's in my neighborhood here in Chicago...

I know it was somewhere up there. It's all the same to me, Chicago,
Detroit, Los Angeles ... ;-)
I saw a short documentary about it a while ago on Austrian TV. They even
imported all the light fixtures and spoons and everything from Austria.
--
Tim C.

ARKADYA

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Nov 11, 2004, 6:48:40 AM11/11/04
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>Do you have French food stands in American cities?

No

> If so, do you think they
>spoil the experience and should be banned?

Yes
Never Forgive, Never Forget
9-11-01

Jim Ley

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Nov 11, 2004, 6:52:54 AM11/11/04
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It was owned by what is now diageo, but they sold it some time ago.

Jim.

Mike

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Nov 11, 2004, 7:41:55 AM11/11/04
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And, the Disney in Paris is not doing well financially.

nospam

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Nov 11, 2004, 7:53:24 AM11/11/04
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>> The only major European city I can think of that strongly resembles
>> an American city is Helsinki, mainly due to the fact that it is only
>> about 100 years old.
>
> Helsinki was founded in 1505.

Yes, but there aren't too many buildings older than 1900. Most
of the buildings look to date from the middle-later 1900s. My
poorly worded post should have reflected the fact that Finland
only became independent after the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk in
1918, and then Helsinki was allowed to grow free of Russian
influence.


Pete


Markku Grönroos

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Nov 11, 2004, 8:01:16 AM11/11/04
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"Bjorn Olsson" <bjo...@ida.his.se> kirjoitti viestissä

news:42e37e54.04111...@posting.google.com...
> "nospam" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:<InAkd.23548$KJ6....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
> > > With all the McDonalds,Starbucks,KFCs and Disneys etc... how
> > > long before any city in europe looks just like the typical generic
> > > US City.
> >
> > With few exceptions, the oldest buildings in the USA are from the
> > 1800s, and the vast majority are from the 1900s. Europe has many
> > cities - Riga, Prague, Tallinn, Krakow, Moscow, etc - with medieval
> > era buildings. Europe has many cities - Vienna, St. Petersburg, Paris,
> > Copenhagen, Bavaria (a region, not a city), etc - with lots of Baroque
> > (and earlier) palaces
> >
> > The only major European city I can think of that strongly resembles
> > an American city is Helsinki, mainly due to the fact that it is only
> > about 100 years old.
>
> Helsinki was founded in 1505.
>

1550 actually.


Bob Fusillo

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Nov 11, 2004, 9:45:07 AM11/11/04
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It is sort of an amusing irony that, in the States, many things -- houses,
kitchens, toilets, all kinds of household items, housing developments, et
al, are advertised as "European Styling." It is a major selling tool. I
have yet to see the influence, but they claim it.
rjf

"QUEKE" <qu...@nsa.gov> wrote in message
news:2vfqb9F...@uni-berlin.de...

Message has been deleted

Aviday Ogelvay

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Nov 11, 2004, 11:00:53 AM11/11/04
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If Europeans hate these American establishments so much, then they should just
stop going to them. Without any customers they would quickly go out of business
and Europe can have its old appearance back. But of course this won't happen
because places like McDonald's and Burker King are immensely popular in Europe
just as they are in the US and all over the world for that matter. You don't
see Americans complaining about Ikea and Aldi stores do you? So quit your
griping about the American stores that open shop in Europe. I know the number
one activity on this board is to bash the US at every opportunity and blame it
for every single problem in the universe, but this is getting pathetic.

PS: Don't even try suggesting that McDonald's, Burger King, and other American
establishments are kept in business by Americans in Europe. It will only make
you look even more ridiculous than you already do.

Jim Ley

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Nov 11, 2004, 11:54:43 AM11/11/04
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On 11 Nov 2004 06:06:45 -0800, ocon...@slr.orl.lmco.com (me) wrote:

>"QUEKE" <qu...@nsa.gov> wrote in message news:<2vfqb9F...@uni-berlin.de>...
>> With all the McDonalds,Starbucks,KFCs and Disneys etc... how long before any
>> city in europe looks just like the typical generic US City.
>

> Globalization will tend to cause an increase in this. But I think
>to some extent you are seeing something that I've never really understood.
>When I'm in Europe, I'll see all manner of chains or franchises.
>Hotels, groceries, pubs, restaurants, etc.

There aren't that many European pub and restaurant chains, they tend
not to be chains. In Hotels, Bass and Accor are European, they may
use different brands in the US/Europe but that may simply relate to
different marketing strategies (US travellers may be keener on staying
in brands when abroad) but anyway it's only the upmarket hotel brands
that tend to be global.

Grocery shops, there's very little outside the US - walmart has about
2 shops in the UK, and I don't know of any outside , but that could
just be my lack of knowledge (they of course own a lot more, but they
don't use the walmart brand)

The only place we see US brands in Europe is in the fast food/coffee
sector, the lack of reciprocity here is the lack of any such native
brands, these sort of places simply came first to the US. So I don't
think it's failure to export the chain, simply that there's no chains
to export.

Jim.

Go Fig

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Nov 11, 2004, 12:14:26 PM11/11/04
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In article <419395ac....@news.individual.net>, Jim Ley
<j...@jibbering.com> wrote:

> On 11 Nov 2004 06:06:45 -0800, ocon...@slr.orl.lmco.com (me) wrote:
>
> >"QUEKE" <qu...@nsa.gov> wrote in message
> >news:<2vfqb9F...@uni-berlin.de>...
> >> With all the McDonalds,Starbucks,KFCs and Disneys etc... how long before
> >> any
> >> city in europe looks just like the typical generic US City.
> >
> > Globalization will tend to cause an increase in this. But I think
> >to some extent you are seeing something that I've never really understood.
> >When I'm in Europe, I'll see all manner of chains or franchises.
> >Hotels, groceries, pubs, restaurants, etc.
>
> There aren't that many European pub and restaurant chains, they tend
> not to be chains. In Hotels, Bass and Accor are European, they may
> use different brands in the US/Europe but that may simply relate to
> different marketing strategies (US travellers may be keener on staying
> in brands when abroad) but anyway it's only the upmarket hotel brands
> that tend to be global.
>
> Grocery shops, there's very little outside the US - walmart has about
> 2 shops in the UK, and I don't know of any outside , but that could
> just be my lack of knowledge (they of course own a lot more, but they
> don't use the walmart brand)
>
> The only place we see US brands in Europe is in the fast food/coffee
> sector,

You don't recognise names like Universal Studios, MGM, Paramount,
Disney, and NBC... these U.S. brands, among other entertainment brands,
do have very large revenue streams from Europe.

jay
Thu Nov 11, 2004
mailto:go...@mac.com

Jim Ley

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Nov 11, 2004, 12:16:34 PM11/11/04
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On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:14:26 -0800, Go Fig <go...@mac.com> wrote:

>You don't recognise names like Universal Studios, MGM, Paramount,
>Disney, and NBC... these U.S. brands, among other entertainment brands,
>do have very large revenue streams from Europe.

but they're not retail brands which is what we were discussing, or are
you really suggesting the few disney stores, most of which seem to be
closing at the moment are relevant here?

Jim.

Go Fig

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Nov 11, 2004, 12:34:49 PM11/11/04
to
In article <41939e38....@news.individual.net>, Jim Ley
<j...@jibbering.com> wrote:

That is not my take, it was questioned if EU was looking more and more
like U.S. cities.

Does your local theatre show U.S. films, do they have billboards
advertising these U.S. brands ? How bout the local nightclub, do they
play Eminem... what about when you start up your PC, do you see a U.S.
brand on that screen ?

jay
Thu Nov 11, 2004
mailto:go...@mac.com


>
> Jim.

Jim Ley

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Nov 11, 2004, 12:50:52 PM11/11/04
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On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:34:49 -0800, Go Fig <go...@mac.com> wrote:

>In article <41939e38....@news.individual.net>, Jim Ley
><j...@jibbering.com> wrote:
>> but they're not retail brands which is what we were discussing, or are
>> you really suggesting the few disney stores, most of which seem to be
>> closing at the moment are relevant here?
>
>That is not my take, it was questioned if EU was looking more and more
>like U.S. cities.

That was not what I was replying to, the subthread was about the
reasons why European retail brands weren't seen in the US.

>Does your local theatre show U.S. films,

My local theatre doesn't show films, it shows plays and musicals, and
a panto at christmas.

> How bout the local nightclub, do they play Eminem...

No, very unlikely, it's generally trance, or 80's stuff depending on
which one.

Jim.

Go Fig

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Nov 11, 2004, 12:57:39 PM11/11/04
to
In article <4193a5dd....@news.individual.net>, Jim Ley
<j...@jibbering.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:34:49 -0800, Go Fig <go...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <41939e38....@news.individual.net>, Jim Ley
> ><j...@jibbering.com> wrote:
> >> but they're not retail brands which is what we were discussing, or are
> >> you really suggesting the few disney stores, most of which seem to be
> >> closing at the moment are relevant here?
> >
> >That is not my take, it was questioned if EU was looking more and more
> >like U.S. cities.
>
> That was not what I was replying to, the subthread was about the
> reasons why European retail brands weren't seen in the US.
>
> >Does your local theatre show U.S. films,
>
> My local theatre doesn't show films, it shows plays and musicals, and
> a panto at christmas.
>
> > How bout the local nightclub, do they play Eminem...
>
> No, very unlikely, it's generally trance, or 80's stuff depending on
> which one.

But these are the top 3 music singles in the UK this week:

http://uk.launch.yahoo.com/c/uk/single_charts.html

(These are U.S. brands)

1

EMINEM

JUST LOSE IT

2

DESTINY'S CHILD

LOSE MY BREATH


3

BRITNEY SPEARS

MY PREROGATIVE

Jim Ley

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Nov 11, 2004, 1:00:59 PM11/11/04
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On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:57:39 -0800, Go Fig <go...@mac.com> wrote:


>But these are the top 3 music singles in the UK this week:

You asked what my local nightclub played...

not what single managed to sell 25,000 copies, almost all of them to
children too young to enter a nightclub. UK single sales and
nightclub music have no relationship!

Jim.

anonymouse

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Nov 11, 2004, 1:02:39 PM11/11/04
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ARKADYA wrote:

>>Do you have French food stands in American cities?
>
>
> No

ARKDAYA doesn't get out much.

in new orleans you can get crepes or beignets(sp?)

>>If so, do you think they
>>spoil the experience and should be banned?

no

--


Lienad .45/.410 Single Shot Derringer Parts Kit
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7113385171

Go Fig

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Nov 11, 2004, 1:17:11 PM11/11/04
to
In article <4193a88e....@news.individual.net>, Jim Ley
<j...@jibbering.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:57:39 -0800, Go Fig <go...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>
> >But these are the top 3 music singles in the UK this week:
>
> You asked what my local nightclub played...

Only to bring the point home, but it was the larger impact that is the
point.

>
> not what single managed to sell 25,000 copies, almost all of them to
> children too young to enter a nightclub. UK single sales and
> nightclub music have no relationship!


Do you have a local music store, do they use their windows to show-off
their current offerings ?

Tom Peel

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Nov 11, 2004, 1:34:38 PM11/11/04
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Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:

> "R@L" <re...@usenet.com> wrote in
> news:4f911$4192b602$513b789c$15...@news1.zonnet.nl:
>
>

>>Starbucks is mainly in tea countries and not in countries with a
>>coffee tradition.
>
>

> Starbucks is in Germany.
>
> Regards
>

Starbucks in Germany is (was?) owned by Karstadt-Quelle, now they're in
big financial trouble.

T.

Tom Peel

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Nov 11, 2004, 1:38:49 PM11/11/04
to
Douglas W. Hoyt wrote:

>>>>>>With all the McDonalds,Starbucks,KFCs and Disneys etc... how long
>>>>>>before any city in europe looks just like the typical generic US
>>>>>>City.
>
>

> No, Europe will continue to have its unique character thanks to the H&M's,
> C&A's, M&S's, Mangos, Naf-Nafs, and all the other ETC.'s.
>
>


The thing that makes European towns look more and more like American
towns every year is the explosion of greenfield shopping malls and
hypermarkets blotting out the countryside while the inner cities
deteriorate.

T.

Yorick

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Nov 11, 2004, 2:34:13 PM11/11/04
to
me wrote:
> "QUEKE" <qu...@nsa.gov> wrote in message
> But the europeans never seem to export
> their chains.

I've seen IKEA in the USA.

Yorick.


Bill Moore

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Nov 11, 2004, 3:01:07 PM11/11/04
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In article <V8Pkd.2899$HZ5...@amsnews05.chello.com>,

And what about Arthur Treacher's Fish and Chips? (kidding ;-)

Miguel Cruz

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Nov 11, 2004, 3:42:01 PM11/11/04
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me <ocon...@slr.orl.lmco.com> wrote:
> But the europeans never seem to export their chains.

Carrefour is everywhere. But mostly the European retailers prefer to buy
local chains and run them under the local name.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 32 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu


Hatunen

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Nov 11, 2004, 4:53:11 PM11/11/04
to
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:08:48 -0000, "Mark Hewitt"
<ma...@markhewittDotCoDotUk.spammers.will.die> wrote:

>
>"Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowLU...@earthlink.net> wrote in
>message news:jfDkd.11528$Gm6....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>
>>
>> We have Burger Kings which IIRC are British - owned and I feel no
>> particular
>> revulsion towards them...
>
>No it's an American company. But the restaurant franchises are British owned
>of course, but then that's exactly the same as McDonalds.

For a while Burger King was owned by a Brit comapny, Diageo, as a
result of a series of corporate marriages, but it was recently
sold off to some investors and is now privately held.

************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Hatunen

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Nov 11, 2004, 4:55:33 PM11/11/04
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On 11 Nov 2004 13:01:07 -0700, bmo...@blackhole.nyx.net (Bill
Moore) wrote:

I haven't seen an Arthur Treachers in years; are they still
around?

Bill Moore

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Nov 11, 2004, 4:02:05 PM11/11/04
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In article <ktn7p0to307go2etj...@4ax.com>,

Hatunen <hatu...@cox.net> wrote:
>On 11 Nov 2004 13:01:07 -0700, bmo...@blackhole.nyx.net (Bill
>Moore) wrote:
>
>>In article <V8Pkd.2899$HZ5...@amsnews05.chello.com>,
>>Yorick <yor...@SPAM.nl> wrote:
>>>me wrote:
>>>> "QUEKE" <qu...@nsa.gov> wrote in message
>>>> But the europeans never seem to export
>>>> their chains.
>>>
>>>I've seen IKEA in the USA.
>>
>>And what about Arthur Treacher's Fish and Chips? (kidding ;-)
>
>I haven't seen an Arthur Treachers in years; are they still
>around?

Yup. Though I think they used to advertise on TV quite a bit more
than they do currently.

http://www.arthurtreachers.com/locations.htm

Soon you will be able to go to Arthur Treacher's in the
Cayman Islands ;-)


Message has been deleted

Lennart Petersen

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Nov 11, 2004, 4:18:32 PM11/11/04
to

"nospam" <nos...@nospam.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:InAkd.23548$KJ6....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

>> With all the McDonalds,Starbucks,KFCs and Disneys etc... how
>> long before any city in europe looks just like the typical generic
>> US City.
>
> With few exceptions, the oldest buildings in the USA are from the
> 1800s, and the vast majority are from the 1900s. Europe has many
> cities - Riga, Prague, Tallinn, Krakow, Moscow, etc - with medieval
> era buildings. Europe has many cities - Vienna, St. Petersburg, Paris,
> Copenhagen, Bavaria (a region, not a city), etc - with lots of Baroque
> (and earlier) palaces
>
> The only major European city I can think of that strongly resembles
> an American city is Helsinki, mainly due to the fact that it is only
> about 100 years old.
-------------------------------------------
Most of Frankfurt A.M is 50 or less.
It's also named "Bankfurt" and other names as it's more and more like
downtown Manhattan.


Miguel Cruz

unread,
Nov 11, 2004, 4:26:53 PM11/11/04
to
Lennart Petersen <lennart....@swipnet.se> wrote:
> Most of Frankfurt A.M is 50 or less.
> It's also named "Bankfurt" and other names as it's more and more like
> downtown Manhattan.

Have you been to Manhattan? Frankfurt is like Manhattan in the same way that
a cheese sandwich is like the moon.

Frankfurt is deserted and has huge gaps between buildings. It reminds me of
every other inorganic artificial modern city.

Bill Moore

unread,
Nov 11, 2004, 4:39:51 PM11/11/04
to
In article <k0l7p0prnmelmveag...@4ax.com>,

<nit...@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>>And what about Arthur Treacher's Fish and Chips? (kidding ;-)
>>>
>>>I haven't seen an Arthur Treachers in years; are they still
>>>around?
>>
>>Yup. Though I think they used to advertise on TV quite a bit more
>>than they do currently.
>>
>>http://www.arthurtreachers.com/locations.htm
>>
>>Soon you will be able to go to Arthur Treacher's in the
>>Cayman Islands ;-)
>
>What are the C O Jones looking objects in the foreground?
>http://www.arthurtreachers.com/at-menu.htm

From the text at right, and process of elimination, I'm guessing
they must be "Lobster Bites". Or maybe lobster cojones ;-)

Slightly scary looking to me (from a gastronomic point of view)

Frank F. Matthews

unread,
Nov 11, 2004, 4:51:30 PM11/11/04
to
I don't know why you think that european brands aren't seen in the US.
Some only occur in specialty stores but the normal supermarket will have
some european brands. It is extremely common in areas such as jams &
jelly, olive oil, or chocolate. As with US brands in europe it is
sometimes difficult to tell where the product is actually produced and
if it is the same as the product in europe. Also some folks will think
that common european brands in the US are actually US brands. Coleman
mustard comes to mind.

Jim Ley wrote:

> That was not what I was replying to, the subthread was about the
> reasons why European retail brands weren't seen in the US.

> Jim.

Frank F. Matthews

unread,
Nov 11, 2004, 4:53:00 PM11/11/04
to
Yorick wrote:

> me wrote:

We had a couple of Auchan stores in Houston before they folded a year or
so ago.

Frank F. Matthews

unread,
Nov 11, 2004, 4:54:11 PM11/11/04
to
Hatunen wrote:

> On 11 Nov 2004 13:01:07 -0700, bmo...@blackhole.nyx.net (Bill
> Moore) wrote:

>>In article <V8Pkd.2899$HZ5...@amsnews05.chello.com>,
>>Yorick <yor...@SPAM.nl> wrote:

>>>me wrote:

>>>>"QUEKE" <qu...@nsa.gov> wrote in message
>>>> But the europeans never seem to export
>>>>their chains.

>>>I've seen IKEA in the USA.

>>And what about Arthur Treacher's Fish and Chips? (kidding ;-)

> I haven't seen an Arthur Treachers in years; are they still
> around?

I think that Houston still has one in a far out suburb.

Jim Ley

unread,
Nov 11, 2004, 4:57:01 PM11/11/04
to
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:51:30 GMT, "Frank F. Matthews"
<frankfm...@houston.rr.com> wrote:

>Jim Ley wrote:
>
>> That was not what I was replying to, the subthread was about the
>> reasons why European retail brands weren't seen in the US.
>> Jim.
>

>I don't know why you think that european brands aren't seen in the US.
>Some only occur in specialty stores but the normal supermarket will have
>some european brands.

Arhghghggh (that's a scream of exasperation)

The thread has been about the shops that sell stuff, everyone's
acknowledged that the actual products are global, but there's no
equivalent to starbucks/McD's etc. on the US highstreet.

Jim.

Yorick

unread,
Nov 11, 2004, 4:58:52 PM11/11/04
to
Frank F. Matthews wrote:
> I don't know why you think that european brands aren't seen in the US.
> Some only occur in specialty stores but the normal supermarket will have
> some european brands. It is extremely common in areas such as jams &
> jelly, olive oil, or chocolate. As with US brands in europe it is
> sometimes difficult to tell where the product is actually produced and
> if it is the same as the product in europe. Also some folks will think
> that common european brands in the US are actually US brands. Coleman
> mustard comes to mind.

Not really a brand, but I was looking for Dutch cheese in San Francisco. I
wanted to make 'kaas spek pannenkoeken' for an American friend. I found
Gouda cheese in the supermarket, but it wasn't like Gouda cheese at all. It
was like a piece of plastic, like most American cheeses :) (No offense by
the way, but I think cheese is one the few culinary things that we do
right).

Yorick.


Lennart Petersen

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Nov 11, 2004, 5:35:08 PM11/11/04
to

"Miguel Cruz" <m...@admin.u.nu> skrev i meddelandet
news:-rWdnbvY8cW...@speakeasy.net...

> Lennart Petersen <lennart....@swipnet.se> wrote:
>> Most of Frankfurt A.M is 50 or less.
>> It's also named "Bankfurt" and other names as it's more and more like
>> downtown Manhattan.
>
> Have you been to Manhattan? Frankfurt is like Manhattan in the same way
> that
> a cheese sandwich is like the moon.
Just wait. From time to time there's a new skyscraper in Bankfurt and the
view from the air is impressing. Anyway it's a very modern city with
little more than the rebuilt Roehmerplatz being in the old style.


Message has been deleted

Frank F. Matthews

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Nov 11, 2004, 5:42:27 PM11/11/04
to
Well if we are only talking about names of retail stores then we have to
consider some other examples. There are several european auto brands.
Benetton is ubiquitous. I had a couple of Auchan stores around until
they found that they were unable to make it. Ikea is prominent. WIll
these do for european store brands around the US?
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

Lennart Petersen

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Nov 11, 2004, 5:53:23 PM11/11/04
to

"Go Fig" <go...@mac.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:111120040934494021%go...@mac.com...
> In article <41939e38....@news.individual.net>, Jim Ley
> <j...@jibbering.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:14:26 -0800, Go Fig <go...@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>> >You don't recognise names like Universal Studios, MGM, Paramount,
>> >Disney, and NBC... these U.S. brands, among other entertainment brands,
>> >do have very large revenue streams from Europe.
>>
>> but they're not retail brands which is what we were discussing, or are
>> you really suggesting the few disney stores, most of which seem to be
>> closing at the moment are relevant here?
>
> That is not my take, it was questioned if EU was looking more and more
> like U.S. cities.
>
> Does your local theatre show U.S. films, do they have billboards
> advertising these U.S. brands ?
NO. For the moment they're playing Chekhov: "The Cherry garden" , next is
Shakespeare : "The Tempest" .
Maybe Arthur Miller sometimes.


Hatunen

unread,
Nov 11, 2004, 7:05:37 PM11/11/04
to
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:51:30 GMT, "Frank F. Matthews"
<frankfm...@houston.rr.com> wrote:

>I don't know why you think that european brands aren't seen in the US.
>Some only occur in specialty stores but the normal supermarket will have
>some european brands. It is extremely common in areas such as jams &
>jelly, olive oil, or chocolate. As with US brands in europe it is
>sometimes difficult to tell where the product is actually produced and
>if it is the same as the product in europe. Also some folks will think
>that common european brands in the US are actually US brands. Coleman
>mustard comes to mind.

Nestle products can be found almost anywhere.

hermannMueller

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Nov 11, 2004, 5:30:44 PM11/11/04
to
Emilia schrieb:

> "Douglas W. Hoyt" <nospamth...@nada.net> wrote in
> news:10p5hit...@corp.supernews.com:

>
>
>>>>>>>With all the McDonalds,Starbucks,KFCs and Disneys etc... how long
>>>>>>>before any city in europe looks just like the typical generic US
>>>>>>>City.
>>

>>No, Europe will continue to have its unique character thanks to the
>>H&M's, C&A's, M&S's, Mangos, Naf-Nafs, and all the other ETC.'s.
>
>
>

> Even H&M is in the US and isn't Burger King owned by a European company?

and they serve 'steaks Hamburg style' today called Hamburger, LOL

"In the late eighteenth century, the largest ports in Europe were in
German. Sailors who had visited the ports of Hamburg, Germany and New
York, brought the food and term "Hamburg Steak" into popular usage. To
attract German sailors, eating stands along the New York city harbor
offered "steak cooked in the Hamburg style."
http://whatscookingamerica.net/History/HamburgerHistory.htm

Never mind Heinrich Goebel

But you Yanks can have all the fame......like always

m.berger

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Nov 11, 2004, 5:38:39 PM11/11/04
to
Gregory Morrow schrieb:

> nospam wrote:
>
>
>>The only major European city I can think of that strongly resembles
>>an American city is Helsinki, mainly due to the fact that it is only
>>about 100 years old.
>
>
>

> I'd add Berlin to that list, reminds me a bit of Chicago...
>

Yes Chicago was founded in 1230 like Berlin.

Its townscape of today is the result of the round-the-clock-bombing
during WWII.

Bill Moore

unread,
Nov 11, 2004, 6:35:40 PM11/11/04
to

So because of the bombing it hardly resembles an old European city.

I found Berlin reminiscent in some ways of New York, in the sense of
being really "big" in its presentation.


Jim Ley

unread,
Nov 11, 2004, 6:52:19 PM11/11/04
to
On 11 Nov 2004 23:44:48 +0100, Emilia <emilia@(spam-so-)easy.com>
wrote:

>nit...@privacy.net wrote in news:2nq7p096vpjoghltlqjd8mokaoge79cct0@
>4ax.com:
>
>> On 11 Nov 2004 23:36:32 +0100, Emilia <emilia@(spam-so-)easy.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Are we only allowed to talk about food?
>>>Or clothes, cars, business?
>>
>> You can talk about anything you like, Emilia.
>
>No we can't. Jim won't let us.

No, I'm not trying to stop anyone discussing anything, people keep
taking what was a simple reply about a very narrow area of discussion
on retail outlets in the US and Europe and their differences and
taking it that I was implying other stuff, both my post and the post I
replied to made it pretty clear I thought what we were talking about.

Jim.

James Silverton

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Nov 11, 2004, 7:01:27 PM11/11/04
to

"Hatunen" <hatu...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:qhv7p05fjla49uaq8...@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:51:30 GMT, "Frank F. Matthews"
> <frankfm...@houston.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>I don't know why you think that european brands aren't seen in the
>>US.
>>Some only occur in specialty stores but the normal supermarket will
>>have
>>some european brands. It is extremely common in areas such as jams
>>&
>>jelly, olive oil, or chocolate. As with US brands in europe it is
>>sometimes difficult to tell where the product is actually produced
>>and
>>if it is the same as the product in europe. Also some folks will
>>think
>>that common european brands in the US are actually US brands.
>>Coleman
>>mustard comes to mind.
>
> Nestle products can be found almost anywhere.
>

There is certainly not a widespread distribution in ordinary
supermarkets even if a lot have a section for "imported foods" but you
can find specialty supermarkets which carry European brands. In the
Washington DC area, an example is Rodman's. I have found Russian,
German and British things there, including that remarkable product
Mushy Peas (g) and things that look like the original British versions
of Ketchup and "salad cream". Not that I would eat the stuff but
still! There are also quite a number of Greek and Russian grocery
stores with packages that I have to use my meager knowledge of the
home languages to figure out the contents.


--
James V. Silverton
Potomac, Maryland, USA

Lennart Petersen

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Nov 11, 2004, 7:04:44 PM11/11/04
to

"Bill Moore" <bmo...@blackhole.nyx.net> skrev i meddelandet
news:11002161...@irys.nyx.net...
Most of Berlin was built in the 19th century. The damage in the war
wasn't so exceptional, compared with Hamburg,Frankfurt,Dresden so many
buildings remained (I've seen somewhere that 80% remained) thanks to the
good construction of the houses and the broad boulevards preventing the
fires. So you can still easy find prewar houses as my small pensione being
in a nice late 19th century house with 5 m up to the ceilings. One of
the Nazi buildings remains , Görings Luftfartsministerium now rebuilt and
used by the government.
Very recently, after 1989, there have been much new constructions as around
Potzdamerplats changing the view of Berlin.


Douglas W. Hoyt

unread,
Nov 11, 2004, 7:18:34 PM11/11/04
to
>>>>>>> Most of Berlin was built in the 19th century. The damage in the
>>>>>>> war wasn't so exceptional, compared with Hamburg,Frankfurt,Dresden
>>>>>>> so many buildings remained (I've seen somewhere that 80% remained)
>>>>>>> thanks to the good construction of the houses and the broad
>>>>>>> boulevards ...

What always strikes me as the often unrecognized aspect of Berlin that makes
it uniquely Berlin is how very wide the streets are. This is an intentional
design, but although it makes walking the city a longer trek than most other
places, it gives a unique atmosphere: multi-story building separated by
these grand thoroughfares--even on 'backstreets'. Apparently this was set
to emulate the feel of French boulevards.

Message has been deleted

chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn

unread,
Nov 11, 2004, 8:11:16 PM11/11/04
to
Miguel Cruz <m...@admin.u.nu> wrote:

> Lennart Petersen <lennart....@swipnet.se> wrote:
> > Most of Frankfurt A.M is 50 or less.
> > It's also named "Bankfurt" and other names as it's more and more like
> > downtown Manhattan.
>
> Have you been to Manhattan? Frankfurt is like Manhattan in the same way that
> a cheese sandwich is like the moon.
>
> Frankfurt is deserted and has huge gaps between buildings.

You really did have a bad time there, based on this and previous
postings. I've spent a grand total of two days in Frankfurt, and had a
lot of fun, and met plenty of nice people there. Maybe it's you?

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Miguel Cruz

unread,
Nov 11, 2004, 9:31:04 PM11/11/04
to
chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn <this_address...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Miguel Cruz <m...@admin.u.nu> wrote:
>> Lennart Petersen <lennart....@swipnet.se> wrote:
>>> Most of Frankfurt A.M is 50 or less.
>>> It's also named "Bankfurt" and other names as it's more and more like
>>> downtown Manhattan.
>>
>> Have you been to Manhattan? Frankfurt is like Manhattan in the same way that
>> a cheese sandwich is like the moon.
>>
>> Frankfurt is deserted and has huge gaps between buildings.
>
> You really did have a bad time there, based on this and previous
> postings. I've spent a grand total of two days in Frankfurt, and had a
> lot of fun, and met plenty of nice people there. Maybe it's you?

I don't think it's the worst place in the world, and I have nothing bad to
say about the people. Actually I had some nice interactions and enjoyed an
apple turnover which was probably the best-tasting baked item I've ever
eaten in my life. I just don't find it a very dynamic place, and I certainly
don't see any comparison to Manhattan except for the presence of >n
buildings greater than x meters in height, where n and x are fairly small
numbers, and many hundreds of cities worldwide qualify by the same standard.

But it's possible, yes, that I have some sort of innate character flaw that
specifically prevents me from recognizing Frankfurt's greatness.

Lennart Petersen

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Nov 11, 2004, 9:57:41 PM11/11/04
to

"Miguel Cruz" <m...@admin.u.nu> skrev i meddelandet
news:4vOdnaz6T9j...@speakeasy.net...

> chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn
> <this_address...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Miguel Cruz <m...@admin.u.nu> wrote:
>>> Lennart Petersen <lennart....@swipnet.se> wrote:
>>>> Most of Frankfurt A.M is 50 or less.
>>>> It's also named "Bankfurt" and other names as it's more and more like
>>>> downtown Manhattan.
>>>
>>> Have you been to Manhattan? Frankfurt is like Manhattan in the same way
>>> that
>>> a cheese sandwich is like the moon.
>>>
>>> Frankfurt is deserted and has huge gaps between buildings.
>>
>> You really did have a bad time there, based on this and previous
>> postings. I've spent a grand total of two days in Frankfurt, and had a
>> lot of fun, and met plenty of nice people there. Maybe it's you?
>
> I don't think it's the worst place in the world, and I have nothing bad to
> say about the people. Actually I had some nice interactions and enjoyed an
> apple turnover which was probably the best-tasting baked item I've ever
> eaten in my life. I just don't find it a very dynamic place, and I
> certainly
> don't see any comparison to Manhattan except for the presence of >n
> buildings greater than x meters in height, where n and x are fairly small
> numbers, and many hundreds of cities worldwide qualify by the same
> standard.
Naturally it's not the size of Manhattan but what strucks is the very rapid
change of the skyline of Frankfurt. Just some years ago, say 20 as the
longest , there wasn't a single real high building and now it's very
different. Could be reason to know that high buildings are rare in
Germany, except church towers typically being highest in town.
That's why Frankfurt is something special ,at least by German standard.


R J Carpenter

unread,
Nov 11, 2004, 11:01:34 PM11/11/04
to

"James Silverton" <not.jim....@erols.com> wrote in message
news:ZpmdnZn3L8T...@comcast.com...

>
> There is certainly not a widespread distribution in ordinary
> supermarkets even if a lot have a section for "imported foods" but you
> can find specialty supermarkets which carry European brands. In the
> Washington DC area, an example is Rodman's. I have found Russian,
> German and British things there, including that remarkable product
> Mushy Peas (g) and things that look like the original British versions
> of Ketchup and "salad cream". Not that I would eat the stuff but
> still! There are also quite a number of Greek and Russian grocery
> stores with packages that I have to use my meager knowledge of the
> home languages to figure out the contents.
>
> James V. Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland, USA

Potomac post office is a substation of Rockville. Right down the street
from the Rockville PO is an oriental supermarket. It fills what used
to be the Buick dealership, not a small outfit.

The largest grocery chain in the DC area is Giant, now run by Stop and
Shop from New England - both owned by Ahold, the Dutch outfit.

I understood how things had changed in the USA when the construction
worker in line ahead of me at the 7-11 convenience store has his bottle
of Evian water.

RJC, Rockville, MD


Yorick

unread,
Nov 12, 2004, 12:47:45 AM11/12/04
to
Frank F. Matthews wrote:
> Well if we are only talking about names of retail stores then we have to
> consider some other examples. There are several european auto brands.
> Benetton is ubiquitous. I had a couple of Auchan stores around until
> they found that they were unable to make it. Ikea is prominent. WIll
> these do for european store brands around the US?

Versace, Hugo Boss, Dolce & Gabbana, Gucci.
Another thing: beer. In an American bar I could choose between Heineken,
Amstel and Grolsch, as if I was in Amsterdam.

Yorick.


Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)

unread,
Nov 12, 2004, 2:13:05 AM11/12/04
to

Frank F. Matthews wrote:

> I don't know why you think that european brands aren't seen in the US.
> Some only occur in specialty stores but the normal supermarket will have
> some european brands. It is extremely common in areas such as jams &
> jelly, olive oil, or chocolate. As with US brands in europe it is
> sometimes difficult to tell where the product is actually produced and
> if it is the same as the product in europe. Also some folks will think
> that common european brands in the US are actually US brands. Coleman
> mustard comes to mind.

And Lee & Perrins sauces (particularly Worcestershire).

Martin Rich

unread,
Nov 12, 2004, 2:25:03 AM11/12/04
to
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 06:35:52 +0100, Wolfgang Schwanke <s...@sig.nature>
wrote:

>"QUEKE" <qu...@nsa.gov> wrote in news:2vfqb9F...@uni-berlin.de:


>
>> With all the McDonalds,Starbucks,KFCs and Disneys etc... how long
>> before any city in europe looks just like the typical generic US City.
>

>It's going to take some more time until all European cities have bulldozed
>their existing street pattern and replaced it by a rectangular grid, and
>blown up their historic city centres to be replaced by a collection of
>random skycrapers they call "downtown".
>

- and the same European cities would also need to replace their
residential areas outside the centre with generic American suburbia.
The basic geography and the architecture ensure that European cities
look very different from American cities in ways that won't go away as
a result of a few extra branches of McDonalds. Not that I think
McDonalds is expanding significantly in Europe at the moment.

Even on the original poster's narrow definition, I don't think
European cities are really getting to look American. My local main
shopping area has a Starbucks in a prominent location and a KFC rather
tucked away, but these are the exceptions. The other shops are all
British or European brands. Go round the North Circular road to Brent
Cross, which *does* have the feel of a large US shopping mall, and the
major stores are John Lewis, Fenwick, and Marks and Spencer. There's
a Starbucks within the mall but it's balanced by a Costa coffee bar, a
chain which, despite its Italian image, is part of the British group
Whitbread. Go in the opposite direction to Islington and you'll find
a new shopping centre with a big Borders bookshop, and a multiplex
cinema showing American blockbusters, but it still doesn't look or
feel like any American city that I've been to.

Martin

Keith Willshaw

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Nov 12, 2004, 2:56:37 AM11/12/04
to

"Yorick" <yor...@SPAM.nl> wrote in message
news:58Ykd.2938$HZ5....@amsnews05.chello.com...

Thats a pity , there are some excellent American microbrews
you'll never get to try in Amsterdam.

Keith


Tim Challenger

unread,
Nov 12, 2004, 2:58:04 AM11/12/04