Ireland Trip Report (Dublin area) LONG
Jhapére
a trip report from my recently completed trip to Ireland.
Our group was myself, my wife and three daughters (15, 13, 11). We were
based in Dublin. It was not our first trip to Ireland. The trip was 10
days: April 22 - May 1.
WEATHER:
The best I've ever had in Ireland. No rain until the last half of the
last day. One day was sunny and totally cloud-free. Temperatures ranged
from 40-ish in the morning (fahrenheit) to highs of 65 on the sunny
days.
HOTEL:
The one year-old Clarion Liffey Valley Hotel. Located on the N4 just
off the M50 (ring road of Dublin), it was very close to the also brand
new Liffey Valley Centre (mall) - the kids liked the shopping and the
cinema there. The hotel was reasonable, if soulless. The staff was
almost entirely eastern European with varying English skills. Service
was good (getting extra towels, etc.) The restaurants inside the hotel
were oh-my-God expensive - we did not eat in them once! Would not stay
at this hotel again because it was totally lacking in charm and warmth.
Circumstances dictated that we stay there. C'est la vie!
CAR:
Rented a car from Avis via the internet here in the States. Prepaid the
rental fee. Still had to pay the CDW insurance. Total cost: about $500
(that's dollars, not Euro) for 10 days. Gasoline is about twice as
expensive as here, but our car got twice the mileage (a Renault Megane
station wagon - 38 MPG) than here, so it all works out the same, more
or less.
FOOD:
We spent about $100 per day on food/drink for the five of us. We ate
mostly at public house carveries, although we did shop at a Dunnes
Store for bread, butter, jam, etc. Some petrol stations have decent hot
sandwich shops in them as well.
Johnnie Fox's Pub - high in the Dublin mountains. Get there early to
avoid the tourist buses. Super excellent magnificent seafood. We ate an
early supper there by the turf-fueled fireplace. 3 adult entrees, 2
kids' ones and 4 pints of Guinness: 100 Euro. Expensive but worth it.
The kids loved it. The drive there is spectacular. You'll never forget
trying to get directions there the first time you go...
In the busting town of Navan, we stopped for lunch at Supermacs. The
kids wanted fast food, so they got Ireland's version of McDonald's. It
was twice the price at half the quality! Note to self: avoid at all
costs in the future.
PUBS:
Most of the pubs we went to were in the southwest part of the city in
and around Tallaght, Lucan and Crumlin.
Deadman's Inn. Just across the N4 from the hotel; The drink, food and
service there were always first rate! I highly recommend their carvery.
Note to Americans who don't know (we didn't): a carvery is like a
buffet.
The Clock Tower. In the Kingswood estate of Tallaght off the Belgard
Road. Much different than a year ago - redecorated in a
not-too-pleasing way (to us). Carvery was excellent. It is our friends
local pub, so we spent a fair amount of time there...
Foxhunter. On Lucan Road. Carvery was good. Went to a trivia contest on
Thursday night - it was a lot of fun. Met some fun people.
The Laurels. In Crumlin (or is it Terenure at that point?) - great
local pub. The barman remembered me from a couple years ago when I
watched the Super Bowl there (the wardrobe malfunction one). No food,
but a chipper nearby.
Foleys. In Dublin on Merrion Row. Excellent food, service, view (of
people walking by on street). Even the kids liked it (we were there in
the afternoon!).
The Penny Black. In Tallaght. Cute barmen (according to my eldest
daughter). Good alacarte food. They had a carvery but (for once) we
didn't take advantage of it.
Within walking distance of our soulless hotel was an equally soulless
pub - I can't remember the name; totally modern, with loads of glass
and chrome. Only redeeming feature was that we could walk there from
the hotel.
Grumpy McClafferty's - in the Plaza hotel in Tallaght. Decent hotel
pub. Full of loads of locals having parties, receptions, etc. I pity
those that don't venture out from their hotel to more traditional pubs,
but it was alright enough - it had Guinness!
SIGHTS
Book of Kells. At Trinity College. Family rate was 16 Euro (two adults,
three kids). Includes the Long Library which is hosting a Samuel
Beckett exhibition at the time.
Dublinia. Across the street from Christ Church Cathedral. It is a
well-done museum detailing Dublin's Viking and Medieval days. The kids
really liked it. Afterwards, we visited the Cathedral and were lucky to
catch the end of an orchestra concert. Cost was 16 Euro for the museum
and church.
The Temple Bar (area). Had a a good time walking the narrow streets and
going in shops. The kids got to see their very first heroin deal go
down (through the window of the shop we ate lunch in) !
We visited some out-of-the-way 1916 Rebellion locations such as
Boland's Mill in the docklands. I would've thought that there would be
a plaque or something there to note the action that took place (esp.
since Eamon de Valera was in charge at the scene) - Maybe there was and
we missed it.
We spent a day in the Wicklow mountains - drove through the Sally Gap
to Glendalough, etc. I highly recommend the Military Road to the Gap -
the views are outstanding. The bogland upon the mountains is surreal.
We spent another day doing the Bru na Bonne (sp) - the Valley of the
Boyne river. Starting at Drogheda, we visited Saint Oliver Plunkett's
head in the church and then headed to the site of the Battle of the
Boyne. Not much in the way of a museum (is there one?), nor is the
battlefield monumented - which was refreshing in a way. The battlefield
carpark opens in May, so we just looked around and went on our way.
At Newgrange, we went through the museum and took the minibus to the
site. The trip into the megalithic mound was fantastic. We did not tour
Knowth nor Dowth because of time constraints. I believe to do the
entire site takes about 3-4 hours. The family rate for museum and
Newgrange (only) was 16 Euro. To do it all cost 24 Euro, IIRC. They had
a nice gift shop and cafeteria.
On to the village of Slane. Visited the Hill of Slane where, legend has
it, St. Patrick lit a bonfire on the pagan holiday of Bealtine (sp).
There is a cemetery and the remnants of a church and an abbey. We found
the ruins to be very interesting. We also liked that no one else was
around so we had the site to ourselves.
We then stopped by the Hill of Tara - another seemingly highly
important place in the history of Ireland that doesn't have much in the
way of facilities - only a carpark as far as we could tell. You can't
get much of a view of the remains of the ancient hill forts. See aerial
photos on the internet and then go to the site to say you've been there
- that's what we did anyway.
Then we stopped by the abbey in Becktive at which a scene from
Braveheart was filmed. Pulled the car off the road (mostly). Had to
cross a barbed-wire fence. The interpretive sign insdie the abbey had
been defaced by local teens (presumably from the thoughts expressed),
but was still readable. Entry into the abbey itself is barred by
various gates, but you can get to the cloister in which the scene was
filmed by going around the perimeter.
On to the town of Trim where we were too late to visit the castle. So
we walked around it - which was still awesome!
SHOPPING
Stephen's Green Centre. location is in the name. Parking somewhat
expensive, but that's what you get if you drive into the central
Dublin. Bright, open and airy.
Powerscourt Centre - located off of Grafton Street (I think it's on
Clarendon). Went in mainly to look at the old Powerscourt family's city
home from which this shopping center is made. Dublin historian Pat
Liddy has noted the onld main staircase and the plaster work in the
main entrance hall - that's what we checked out.
Grafton Street area - from there to the Dublin Castle is an old market
area that still resounds with lots of people and shops. The girls were
estatic, going in all the clothing, shoe and music shops. Spent much
too much time and money there, but the kids really, really enjoyed it
(they did not much enjoy old ruins, etc.).
Liffey Valley Centre - out of town on the M50. Already noted above.
The Square - in Tallaght Village. Another in a long series of shopping
malls in the Dublin area. Kids liked it.
SUMMARY
Ireland is booming these days - it is not the poor country of the past.
It is =expensive= to do =anything=. Bring your wallet. The scenery, the
pubs and most of all, the people, are fantastic. Most folks are very
open. They'll always talk to you in pubs. Everyone we've ever met in
Ireland has some kind of relative in America and they love to talk
about them.
Driving on the left is not too hard after a couple of days. I found the
hardest thing was a right turn from one street to another. Always think
"LEFT". I still don't understand the usage of turn signals on the
roundabouts. Plus the roundabouts WITH traffic signals - it's the worst
of both worlds!
We always overplan things to do and visit (so we always have something
to do). The things we didn't get to see this time: Mellafont Abbey, the
Monasterboice Abbey, the Casino Marino, Bray Village and Maynooth.
Sorry this was so long!!!
Padraig Breathnach
>As suggested by those from whom I sought advice in this group, here is
>a trip report from my recently completed trip to Ireland.
>
For which, thank you. Even though it is not likely to influence any of
my travel plans, I enjoyed reading it. A few comments follow.
>HOTEL:
>The one year-old Clarion Liffey Valley Hotel. Located on the N4 just
>off the M50 (ring road of Dublin), it was very close to the also brand
>new Liffey Valley Centre (mall) - the kids liked the shopping and the
>cinema there. The hotel was reasonable, if soulless. The staff was
>almost entirely eastern European with varying English skills. Service
>was good (getting extra towels, etc.) The restaurants inside the hotel
>were oh-my-God expensive - we did not eat in them once! Would not stay
>at this hotel again because it was totally lacking in charm and warmth.
>Circumstances dictated that we stay there. C'est la vie!
>
I passed by it last week, on Thursday morning, and thought to myself
that it looked soulless (the very word you used), and I also thought
it a poor enough location for a holiday visitor. But I gather that you
had reasons for being in that zone of the city.
>FOOD:
>We spent about $100 per day on food/drink for the five of us. We ate
>mostly at public house carveries, although we did shop at a Dunnes
>Store for bread, butter, jam, etc. Some petrol stations have decent hot
>sandwich shops in them as well.
>
You did well to hold to such a budget. As you comment elsewhere,
Ireland is not cheap.
>SIGHTS
>Book of Kells. At Trinity College. Family rate was 16 Euro (two adults,
>three kids). Includes the Long Library which is hosting a Samuel
>Beckett exhibition at the time.
>
I think the Long Room on its own is worth the admission charge.
>The Temple Bar (area). Had a a good time walking the narrow streets and
>going in shops. The kids got to see their very first heroin deal go
>down (through the window of the shop we ate lunch in) !
>
I hope that it looked to them to be seedy and undesirable.
>We visited some out-of-the-way 1916 Rebellion locations such as
>Boland's Mill in the docklands. I would've thought that there would be
>a plaque or something there to note the action that took place (esp.
>since Eamon de Valera was in charge at the scene) - Maybe there was and
>we missed it.
>
Most Irish people know about Dev being in Boland's Mills, but for some
reason it is not generally considered a major 1916 site. I don't think
there is any commemorative plaque or monument there.
>We spent a day in the Wicklow mountains - drove through the Sally Gap
>to Glendalough, etc. I highly recommend the Military Road to the Gap -
>the views are outstanding. The bogland upon the mountains is surreal.
>
And the waterfall at Glenmacnass! You can be excused for missing it,
as I suppose that you were responsible for keeping the car on the
road, but the rest of the family should have spotted it an ooh'ed and
aah'ed.
>We spent another day doing the Bru na Bonne (sp) - the Valley of the
>Boyne river. Starting at Drogheda, we visited Saint Oliver Plunkett's
>head in the church and then headed to the site of the Battle of the
>Boyne. Not much in the way of a museum (is there one?), nor is the
>battlefield monumented - which was refreshing in a way. The battlefield
>carpark opens in May, so we just looked around and went on our way.
>
I think it is only the Serbian people (in their attitude to Kosovo)
who tie into their national self-image a major battle that they lost.
>On to the village of Slane. Visited the Hill of Slane where, legend has
>it, St. Patrick lit a bonfire on the pagan holiday of Bealtine (sp).
>There is a cemetery and the remnants of a church and an abbey. We found
>the ruins to be very interesting. We also liked that no one else was
>around so we had the site to ourselves.
>
It's very nice up there, and surprisingly under-promoted.
>We then stopped by the Hill of Tara - another seemingly highly
>important place in the history of Ireland that doesn't have much in the
>way of facilities - only a carpark as far as we could tell. You can't
>get much of a view of the remains of the ancient hill forts. See aerial
>photos on the internet and then go to the site to say you've been there
>- that's what we did anyway.
>
There is a small interpretative centre in an old church, but I can't
say how good it is, because I didn't go in. Tara is a difficult site
to understand, and archaeologists have not fixed on a single
interpretation.
>Grafton Street area - from there to the Dublin Castle is an old market
>area that still resounds with lots of people and shops. The girls were
>estatic, going in all the clothing, shoe and music shops. Spent much
>too much time and money there, but the kids really, really enjoyed it
>(they did not much enjoy old ruins, etc.).
>
It's a better zone than Temple Bar, and more authentic in that it
evolved somewhat spontaneously rather than as an urban renewal plan.
>SUMMARY
>Ireland is booming these days - it is not the poor country of the past.
>It is =expensive= to do =anything=. Bring your wallet.
>
Credit cards are accepted!
>The scenery, the
>pubs and most of all, the people, are fantastic. Most folks are very
>open. They'll always talk to you in pubs. Everyone we've ever met in
>Ireland has some kind of relative in America and they love to talk
>about them.
>
"Have you ever been to South Boston? Did you bump into a guy called
Joe Madigan? He's my wife's uncle."
>Driving on the left is not too hard after a couple of days.
>
I find it easy all the time!
>I found the
>hardest thing was a right turn from one street to another. Always think
>"LEFT". I still don't understand the usage of turn signals on the
>roundabouts. Plus the roundabouts WITH traffic signals - it's the worst
>of both worlds!
>
We have more cars than road space. I take it you got to know the Red
Cow roundabout, between your hotel and the city, known to us as the
Mad Cow.
>We always overplan things to do and visit (so we always have something
>to do). The things we didn't get to see this time: Mellafont Abbey, the
>Monasterboice Abbey, the Casino Marino, Bray Village and Maynooth.
>
Put Monasterboice and the Casino at the top of the list for the next
visit.
>Sorry this was so long!!!
>
I can speak for myself only, but I suspect that others will agree. I
didn't think your report too long.
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
Mark Hewitt
"Jhapére" <to...@intcom.net> wrote in message
news:1146682904.5...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> WEATHER:
> The best I've ever had in Ireland. No rain until the last half of the
> last day. One day was sunny and totally cloud-free. Temperatures ranged
> from 40-ish in the morning (fahrenheit) to highs of 65 on the sunny
> days.
I was there from April 22 - April 26 and I agree the weather was fantastic!
> HOTEL:
> The one year-old Clarion Liffey Valley Hotel. Located on the N4 just
> off the M50 (ring road of Dublin),
Any reason you didn't stay in the centre? Some of the hotels there are quite
reasonable. It's good to walk back from Temple Bar than drive!
> CAR:
> Rented a car from Avis via the internet here in the States. Prepaid the
> rental fee. Still had to pay the CDW insurance. Total cost: about $500
> (that's dollars, not Euro) for 10 days. Gasoline is about twice as
> expensive as here, but our car got twice the mileage (a Renault Megane
> station wagon - 38 MPG) than here, so it all works out the same, more
> or less.
That's quite a good rate.
> We visited some out-of-the-way 1916 Rebellion locations such as
> Boland's Mill in the docklands. I would've thought that there would be
> a plaque or something there to note the action that took place (esp.
> since Eamon de Valera was in charge at the scene) - Maybe there was and
> we missed it.
I take it you didn't do the open top bus ride then? They show you quite a
few places like that, as well as things you'd otherwise not notice, like the
bullet holes in the statues at the bottom of O'Connell St.
> SUMMARY
> Ireland is booming these days - it is not the poor country of the past.
> It is =expensive= to do =anything=. Bring your wallet. The scenery, the
> pubs and most of all, the people, are fantastic. Most folks are very
> open. They'll always talk to you in pubs. Everyone we've ever met in
> Ireland has some kind of relative in America and they love to talk
> about them.
I found it was mostly Americans working there! Which does disappoint when
you are looking for a proper Irish experience, so to speak.
> Driving on the left is not too hard after a couple of days. I found the
> hardest thing was a right turn from one street to another. Always think
> "LEFT". I still don't understand the usage of turn signals on the
> roundabouts. Plus the roundabouts WITH traffic signals - it's the worst
> of both worlds!
Driving on the left is really easy, I do it every day ;)
They are not turn signals, they are indicators. Whats to understand about
roundabouts anyway, you signal left if you want to go left, right if you
want to go right, and signal left when you are about to turn off. It's a
very simple concept, shame most people don't understand! What's wrong with
roundabouts with traffic lights anyway? Best of both worlds I would say.
> We always overplan things to do and visit (so we always have something
> to do). The things we didn't get to see this time: Mellafont Abbey, the
> Monasterboice Abbey, the Casino Marino, Bray Village and Maynooth.
Well you'll just have to go back then :o)
Mark Hewitt
"Padraig Breathnach" <padr...@MUNGEDiol.ie> wrote in message
news:bk1i521epa54tf4op...@4ax.com...
>
> I think it is only the Serbian people (in their attitude to Kosovo)
> who tie into their national self-image a major battle that they lost.
I don't know.. they seem to make a big deal out of Culloden.
Padraig Breathnach
meaning...
Were there not as many Scots in the victorious army as in the defeated
one?
Des Small
I for one have never heard of Dunkirk, or the Charge of the
Light Brigade. And of course _no one_ knows where Alesia is.
Des
Padraig Breathnach
I heard of them. Great British victories, both of them.
> And of course _no one_ knows where Alesia is.
>
Where is Alesia?
Jhapére
near the WWI battlefields (I think). It was the site of a famous siege
by Caesar - he besieged Alesia and was then besieged himself. he
managed to beat both armies.
Jhapére
were competing in (Tallaght). I found a deal of the internet for the
Clarion - 69 Euro per night. That's why we stayed there.
In the future (for the competition), we'll stay at the Plaza in
Tallaght Village: close to the venue, shopping, pubs, etc.
BTW it took 1 hour to go from Liffey Valley Centre to the National
Baskbetball Arena in Tallaght on the weekdays. We tried going down to
M50 and going down Belgard Road. On Saturday, the same journey took us
12 minutes.
Des Small
> Can't tell if you're being facetious or not,
I can't even tell who you're referring to.
> but Alesia is in France near the WWI battlefields (I think). It was
> the site of a famous siege by Caesar - he besieged Alesia and was
> then besieged himself. he managed to beat both armies.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterix_and_the_Chieftain's_Shield>
Des
Jhapére
above my reply.
PB asked "Where is Alesia?" and I replied.
Des Small
> Well, Des, in my newsreader, the message to which I refer is right
> above my reply.
Well, Jhapére, I'm not using your newsreader, because it is Google
Froups and it is shite.
> PB asked "Where is Alesia?" and I replied.
But had you used "Options->Reply" you could have done so in a way that
excluded fewer non-masochistes.
Des
Padraig Breathnach
>Can't tell if you're being facetious or not,
>
I'm never facetious.
>but Alesia is in France
>near the WWI battlefields (I think). It was the site of a famous siege
>by Caesar - he besieged Alesia and was then besieged himself. he
>managed to beat both armies.
>
According to Des's reference, it's an Asterix story, and I quote from
the Wikipedia reference he supplied:
=====
A running gag in this book is various Gaulish people claiming "I don't
know where Alesia is! No one knows where Alesia is!". The reason for
this seems their Gaulish pride preventing them from mentioning
Vercingetorix's defeat.
=====
Not having read that one, I entirely missed the point he was making,
and fell into the elephant trap.
Padraig Breathnach
>We wanted to stay in the area of the Irish Dancing Competition our kids
>were competing in (Tallaght). I found a deal of the internet for the
>Clarion - 69 Euro per night. That's why we stayed there.
>
>In the future (for the competition), we'll stay at the Plaza in
>Tallaght Village: close to the venue, shopping, pubs, etc.
>
A workable alternative is to stay in the city centre. The morning
traffic flow is from Tallaght into the centre, and it is very easy to
move in the opposite direction. It's the reverse pattern in the
evening.
>BTW it took 1 hour to go from Liffey Valley Centre to the National
>Baskbetball Arena in Tallaght on the weekdays. We tried going down to
>M50 and going down Belgard Road. On Saturday, the same journey took us
>12 minutes.
>
We have too many cars in Ireland. More particularly, we use them too
much.
Jhapére
Des Small wrote:
> But had you used "Options->Reply" you could have done so in a way that
> excluded fewer non-masochistes.
So noted.
Mark Hewitt
"Padraig Breathnach" <padr...@MUNGEDiol.ie> wrote in message
No you don't. Your population is small compared to your land area. However
your road planning and public transport provision in not yet up to stratch,
which is why there are pockets of congestion.
Mark Hewitt
"Padraig Breathnach" <padr...@MUNGEDiol.ie> wrote in message
> Des Small <vonb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>"Mark Hewitt" <ma...@markhewittDotCoDotUk.spammers.will.die> writes:
>>
>>> "Padraig Breathnach" <padr...@MUNGEDiol.ie> wrote in message
>>> news:bk1i521epa54tf4op...@4ax.com...
>>> >
>>> > I think it is only the Serbian people (in their attitude to Kosovo)
>>> > who tie into their national self-image a major battle that they lost.
>>>
>>> I don't know.. they seem to make a big deal out of Culloden.
>>
>>I for one have never heard of Dunkirk, or the Charge of the
>>Light Brigade.
>>
> I heard of them. Great British victories, both of them.
In what was was Dunkirk a victory? Is it the same way Americans withdrawing
from Vietnam was a victory?
Padraig Breathnach
Padraig Breathnach
>
>"Padraig Breathnach" <padr...@MUNGEDiol.ie> wrote in message
>news:29hk521utvfbs5ois...@4ax.com...
>>
>> much.
>
>No you don't. Your population is small compared to your land area. However
>your road planning and public transport provision in not yet up to stratch,
>which is why there are pockets of congestion.
>
transport cannot function well when the roads are full of
single-occupant commuter cars.
Mark Hewitt
"Padraig Breathnach" <padr...@MUNGEDiol.ie> wrote in message
Yes, the pocket I was referring to was Dublin ;). Hopefully the new metro
system will provide some relief.
Padraig Breathnach
>
>"Padraig Breathnach" <padr...@MUNGEDiol.ie> wrote in message
>news:ci0m52l4p4vddinj0...@4ax.com...
>> "Mark Hewitt" <ma...@markhewittDotCoDotUk.spammers.will.die> wrote:
>>>
>>>"Padraig Breathnach" <padr...@MUNGEDiol.ie> wrote in message
>>>news:29hk521utvfbs5ois...@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>> We have too many cars in Ireland. More particularly, we use them too
>>>> much.
>>>
>>>No you don't. Your population is small compared to your land area. However
>>>your road planning and public transport provision in not yet up to
>>>stratch,
>>>which is why there are pockets of congestion.
>>>
>> Pockets of congestion? Dublin, in particular, is choked. Public
>> transport cannot function well when the roads are full of
>> single-occupant commuter cars.
>
>Yes, the pocket I was referring to was Dublin ;). Hopefully the new metro
>system will provide some relief.
>
I don't expect it to, and I don't want to wait that long.
Infrastructural projects in Ireland take a very long time, and any
metro line is at least ten years away.
It would be cheaper and quicker to make the streets less car-friendly,
and give priority to buses and trams. But that's a political decision,
and our politicians are mostly middle-class, have middle-class
friends, and give effect to middle-class preferences. The middle
classes don't want to travel in the same vehicles as the lower orders.
Cork, Galway, Limerick, Waterford, Tralee, Longford, Cavan, Kilkenny,
Killarney, Letterkenny, Sligo, Gorey, and Dundalk are also pockets of
congestion. I could name others.
Mark Hewitt
"Padraig Breathnach" <padr...@MUNGEDiol.ie> wrote in message
>
> Cork, Galway, Limerick, Waterford, Tralee, Longford, Cavan, Kilkenny,
> Killarney, Letterkenny, Sligo, Gorey, and Dundalk are also pockets of
> congestion. I could name others.
Considering the size of ROI and it's population density, traffic congestion
shouldn't really be an issue. Something gone wrong here?
Dave Frightens Me
Are there any plans for a metro, tunnels, or elevated roads?
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
Dave Frightens Me
Or Iraq anymore.
Padraig Breathnach
Yes. We have too many cars, and use them too much.
Padraig Breathnach
There is talk of a metro, but it would be premature to speak of plans.
One tunnel is in course of construction (almost finished) to take
trucks to and from the port.
The M50 (Dublin's version of London's M25 is to be widened --
eventually.
Nobody in a position to influence policy seems to be interested in
tunnels for "normal" traffic, elevated roads, flyovers or underpasses
at busy intersections, even pedestrian underpasses on busy city
streets.
I'm somewhere between embarrassment, anger, and resignation. We Irish
are not good at infrastructural projects.
Dave Frightens Me
It's not just limited to the Irish by any means. Italy is plagued by
the overuse of cars.
jeremy...@yahoo.com
Padraig Breathnach wrote:
> There is talk of a metro, but it would be premature to speak of plans.
Reminds me of a joke:
Spaniard: Is there anything in your language that means the same as
"manana"?
Irishman: Well, yes, sort of, but not with the same sense of urgency.
OK - I'll get my coat.
Mr B;
B Vaughan
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>It's not just limited to the Irish by any means. Italy is plagued by
>the overuse of cars.
Maybe astronomical oil prices, combined with reasonable subsidies for
public transport, would induce people to leave their cars at home more
often.
I've noticed that Italians often don't want to park more than 10 steps
from their destination. One of our's town's butchers moved to a new
location, specifically because of a parking problem near his old shop.
The new shop shares a small parking lot with one other shop, and there
is another larger lot on the other side of the road. Neither lot is
ever full. Yet his customers tend to park in the roadway, on a curve,
with their 4-way flashers going, so that they won't have to walk 20
paces to and from their cars.
People will also leave their cars right in the middle of the narrow
medieval main street of our town so that they can run into a shop and
buy something. Again, they think the 4-way flashers make it all right.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy
Almost everywhere is, unfortunately.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy
They'll kick the ass out of Iran though- you betcha.
David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy
> On Fri, 5 May 2006 17:16:50 +0100, this_address...@yahoo.com
> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>
> >Dave Frightens Me <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
[]
> >> It's not just limited to the Irish by any means. Italy is plagued by
> >> the overuse of cars.
> >
> >Almost everywhere is, unfortunately.
>
> Not Schiermonikoog.
The railtrack I'm on at the moment (Liverpool to Manchester via
Newton-Le-Willows on gorgeous sunny afternoon) is pretty car-free too!
:)
Giovanni Drogo
> It's not just limited to the Irish by any means. Italy is plagued by
> the overuse of cars.
Fully agree. The difference perhaps is that in Ireland you can get stuck
for an hour at a traffic light on a normal road in Drogheda (it happened
to me when our Blue Panorama flight to Dublin was diverted to Belfast),
and in Italy you are stuck in a 30 km long queue on a motorway.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
nos...@mi.iasf.cnr.it is a newsreading account used by more persons to
avoid unwanted spam. Any mail returning to this address will be rejected.
Users can disclose their e-mail address in the article if they wish so.
Dave Frightens Me
>I've noticed that Italians often don't want to park more than 10 steps
>from their destination. One of our's town's butchers moved to a new
>location, specifically because of a parking problem near his old shop.
>The new shop shares a small parking lot with one other shop, and there
>is another larger lot on the other side of the road. Neither lot is
>ever full. Yet his customers tend to park in the roadway, on a curve,
>with their 4-way flashers going, so that they won't have to walk 20
>paces to and from their cars.
That is exactly the same here. The police "should" be handing out
tickets to them. A 200 Euro fine might just do the trick.
Dave Frightens Me
<dr...@rn.bastiani.ta.invalid> wrote:
>On Fri, 5 May 2006, Dave Frightens Me wrote:
>
>> It's not just limited to the Irish by any means. Italy is plagued by
>> the overuse of cars.
>
>Fully agree. The difference perhaps is that in Ireland you can get stuck
>for an hour at a traffic light on a normal road in Drogheda (it happened
>to me when our Blue Panorama flight to Dublin was diverted to Belfast),
>and in Italy you are stuck in a 30 km long queue on a motorway.
That is where the scooter comes in handy!
In fact that's what I like about the scooter. It takes up much less
space than a car, and you arrive on time.
Des Small
> Public transport cannot function well when the roads are full of
> single-occupant commuter cars.
Public transportation, mysteriously, can work just fine when the roads
are full of a mix of multiple-occupant commuter cars, Polish long-haul
trucks, touristes in taxis and sheep (and especially sheep).
Except when the public transport is trains, of course: trains, even
more mysteriously, _only_ function well when the roads are full of
single-occupant commuter cars.
Des
bar...@cix.compulink.co.uk
vonb...@yahoo.co.uk (Des Small) wrote:
> *From:* Des Small <vonb...@yahoo.co.uk>
> *Date:* 09 May 2006 00:07:49 +0100
>
> Padraig Breathnach <padr...@MUNGEDiol.ie> writes:
>
> > Public transport cannot function well when the roads are full of
> > single-occupant commuter cars.
>
> Public transportation, mysteriously, can work just fine when the roads
> are full of a mix of multiple-occupant commuter cars, Polish long-haul
> trucks, touristes in taxis and sheep (and especially sheep).
Buses can't, without bus lanes.
----------------------------------------------
The poster formerly known as bar...@cix.compulink.co.uk.
Harlett O'Dowd
Padraig Breathnach wrote:
> It would be cheaper and quicker to make the streets less car-friendly,
> and give priority to buses and trams. But that's a political decision,
> and our politicians are mostly middle-class, have middle-class
> friends, and give effect to middle-class preferences. The middle
> classes don't want to travel in the same vehicles as the lower orders.
>
> Cork, Galway, Limerick, Waterford, Tralee, Longford, Cavan, Kilkenny,
> Killarney, Letterkenny, Sligo, Gorey, and Dundalk are also pockets of
> congestion. I could name others.
The last time I was in London (2002) plans were afoot to bar
some/most/all single-passenger cars from the city centre - at least
during commuter hours. Has this taken place? Has this helped? Would it
work elsewhere?
Harlett O'Dowd
Jhapére wrote:
> PUBS:
> Most of the pubs we went to were in the southwest part of the city in
> and around Tallaght, Lucan and Crumlin.
>
> Deadman's Inn.
> The Clock Tower.
> Foxhunter.
> The Laurels.
> Foleys.
> The Penny Black.
> Grumpy McClafferty's
It's been 20 years but I enjoyed Slattery's when I was in Dublin. I'm
hoping to get back next year or so. Is it still in operation? Do they
still have music? Does anyone have an address?
bar...@cix.compulink.co.uk
chris.c...@worldspan.com (Harlett O'Dowd) wrote:
> *From:* "Harlett O'Dowd" <chris.c...@worldspan.com>
> *Date:* 9 May 2006 07:13:38 -0700
No, but there is now a daily fee (known as the Congestion Charge) for
using cars in the centre of London. http://www.cclondon.com/
I don't think banning single-occupant vehicles was ever seriously mooted.
Harlett O'Dowd
bar...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> > The last time I was in London (2002) plans were afoot to bar
> > some/most/all single-passenger cars from the city centre - at least
> > during commuter hours. Has this taken place?
>
> No, but there is now a daily fee (known as the Congestion Charge) for
> using cars in the centre of London. http://www.cclondon.com/
>
> I don't think banning single-occupant vehicles was ever seriously mooted.
I'm sure that was it (it's been a while and I've never driven in
London, so it was of only passing interest.)
Anyway, has it been successful in the fight over conjestion?
bar...@cix.compulink.co.uk
> *From:* "Harlett O'Dowd" <chris.c...@worldspan.com>
> *Date:* 9 May 2006 08:08:00 -0700
I'm not a driver, but it doesn't look a whole lot better to me - having
said that, maybe it would have been even worse if they hadn't introduced
the C-charge. I've discussed it with a few cab drivers, none of whom felt
it had made much difference, but then London cabbies aren't known for
their positive approach...
Now, the plan to drastically reduce the number of buses serving Oxford
Street - that /will/ make a difference, I think!
Frank F. Matthews
bar...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
I thought that they were planning to remove all traffic except busses
from Oxford street?
bar...@cix.compulink.co.uk
frankfm...@houston.rr.com (Frank F. Matthews) wrote:
> *From:* "Frank F. Matthews" <frankfm...@houston.rr.com>
> *Date:* Tue, 09 May 2006 16:14:21 GMT
Private vehicles were banned a while back - buses and taxis still use it,
and I guess delivery vehicles are allowed at certain times. But there are
so /many/ bus routes traversing Oxford Street that the buses are
still extremely slow. Now they're talking about dramatically reducing the
number of routes that use the street - I forget the figures but it's
pretty drastic, something like cutting it from 20 to 3 routes.
Dave Frightens Me
<frankfm...@houston.rr.com> wrote:
>I thought that they were planning to remove all traffic except busses
>from Oxford street?
They should just pedestrianise the whole area including Oxford street.
David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy
> On Tue, 09 May 2006 16:14:21 GMT, "Frank F. Matthews"
> <frankfm...@houston.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >I thought that they were planning to remove all traffic except busses
> >from Oxford street?
>
> They should just pedestrianise the whole area including Oxford street.
I've thought that for a long time. Trams would be nice! Oxford Street is
IMO dangerously busy when it gets crowded- Saturdays in particular. That
said, the actual traffic flow is pretty good- i.e. the buses seem to
move fairly quickly there.
Tom Nelson
Harlett O'Dowd <chris.c...@worldspan.com> wrote:
>
> The last time I was in London (2002) plans were afoot to bar
> some/most/all single-passenger cars from the city centre - at least
> during commuter hours. Has this taken place? Has this helped? Would it
> work elsewhere?
>
The scheme was so successful that retailers complained they were losing
business:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3645057.stm
Tom Nelson
Martin Rich
'A while' being around 30 years since Oxford Street was closed to
vehicles other than buses and taxis. But those buses and taxis often
move, as they have done for many years, very slowly. In recent years
most of the routes along Oxford Street have changed from Routemaster
(open platform) buses to either bendies or doored double-deckers,
which must have made a difference to traffic flows. It certainly
makes it less tempting to hop on a bus for a short distance along
Oxford Street,
Martin
congokid
Me <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> writes
>On Tue, 09 May 2006 16:14:21 GMT, "Frank F. Matthews"
><frankfm...@houston.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>I thought that they were planning to remove all traffic except busses
>>from Oxford street?
>
>They should just pedestrianise the whole area including Oxford street.
They pedestrianised Oxford Street one Saturday or Sunday just before
last Christmas. I was there during the afternoon and it was quite nice
and relatively clean and quiet. Most of the minor streets off it were
closed off, with one or two major ones open every few minutes to allow
cross traffic.
The main problem is that it's a very long street with thousands of
people on it and if you did a lot of shopping you'd find it a struggle
to visit many stores.
--
congokid
Eating out in London? Read my tips...
http://congokid.com