first time traveler
soalva...@yahoo.com
here is the paln I have in my mind, let me know if it is feasible, what
do you recommend and what I have to do to enjoy most:
vacation time: 7-9 days
Budget: Limit , well I guess 2, 3 grands for everything
Like to see: Paris, Zurich, Berlin and Milan
Mostly interested in: meeting new people, real bargain shopping and
stuff we can't find in US also see top attractions in each city and get
a sense of people. Nighlife try also, clubs, girls and fun few times.
I also have a cousin in SDouth France ( Montpiller ) and like to see
here for 2 days.
Let me know if this plan works and what is my best bet for each item in
list in each city?
Dave Smith
That is a lot of travel for 7-9 days. You will be seeing a lot of the
inside of airports of train stations and not much time to be a tourist.
Juliana L Holm
more. My first trip I did Paris and London, total 8 days, half of one lost
to travel (even though we did an overnight channel crossing).
Julie
--
Julie
**********
Check out the blog of my 9 week Germany adventure at www.blurty.com/users/jholm
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
Patrick Seemann
>Budget: Limit , well I guess 2, 3 grands for everything
>
>Like to see: Paris, Zurich, Berlin and Milan
Thats a hell of a trip you're intendenting to do here. Even if you
take the plane between these cities, you will easily loose half a
day for each leg. Adding the two days for the cousin this leaves more
or less one evening and one day per city (which looking at your plans
isn't very much). Add some jetlag for the first few days and I really
doubt whether you will be satisfied afterwards.
>Mostly interested in: meeting new people, real bargain shopping and
>stuff we can't find in US also see top attractions in each city and get
>a sense of people. Nighlife try also, clubs, girls and fun few times.
You're probably better of in focusing on two cities and spending 3-4
days in each of them. I would recommend Paris and Zurich (which would
also allow you to take the train from one to the other if your
budget is tight), but you can accomplish your goals in all four cities.
Gruss, Patrick
--
The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow
sharper.
-- Eden Phillpots
Runge
Your vacation time is too short
...but maybe that's all you get, as you're not an european, poor thing !
Anyway, 3 days in Berlin, 2 in Montpellier and 4 in Paris
<soalva...@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
1122316819.4...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
soalva...@yahoo.com wrote:
> First time plan to go to Europe from Pittsburgh USA as solo traveller,
> here is the paln I have in my mind, let me know if it is feasible, what
> do you recommend and what I have to do to enjoy most:
>
> vacation time: 7-9 days
> Budget: Limit , well I guess 2, 3 grands for everything
>
> Like to see: Paris, Zurich, Berlin and Milan
> Mostly interested in: meeting new people, real bargain shopping and
> stuff we can't find in US also see top attractions in each city and get
> a sense of people. Nighlife try also, clubs, girls and fun few times.
>
> I also have a cousin in SDouth France ( Montpiller ) and like to see
> here for 2 days.
In seven to nine DAYS????? You have got to be kidding!!!!
Seven to nine WEEKS would be more like it - certainly a
minimum of a week for each city, not counting travel time.
soalva...@yahoo.com
Paris & Montpiller 4 days ( fast train between cities exist I guess 3
hours, how much? )
and 3 days in Switzerland, Zurich ( Not sure if Berlin or Milan more
worth to see but I think I feel I like to see Swiss and which one is
cheaper and more accessable)
Again focus is shopping, 1 best attraction each ( I guess Paris will be
Louver and Eifel ) and Nightlife and making some new friends...
How about I rent a car? Bad idea? I lost and it very expensive for one
week?
ngha...@lycos.com
more to see and do in Paris.
No, don't rent a car. Concentrate on the cities you have chosen. No
need to go outside of them and a car is a liability in either city.
Zurich has some nice shopping and pretty promenades along the lake.
Paris - Notre Dame cathedral, Eifle tower, Louvre, shopping along the
Champs Elysees, Arc de Triomphe, shopping on Boulevard Hausmann, walk
around on left bank, soooo much more.
Iceman
meeting new people, real bargain shopping and stuff we can't find in US
also see top attractions in each city and get a sense of people.
Nighlife try also, clubs, girls and fun few times. I also have a
cousin in SDouth France ( Montpiller ) and like to see here for 2 days.
Let me know if this plan works and what is my best bet for each item
in list in each city?"
There is no way you could visit all four of those cities in 7-9 days,
let alone also go to Montpelier for 2 days. You would be spending half
your trip on trains or in train stations and have only 1-2 days in each
place, and would be completely tired out from travelling.
Western Europe is NOT a place for bargain shopping. Almost everything
will be more expensive there than in the US.
I would recommend that you stick to two cities and try to spend the
full nine days if possible. Either divide your time between the
fascinating, historic cities of Paris and Berlin, or go to Paris for a
whole week, including day trips to Chartres and Versailles, and take a
side trip to Montpelier.
Zurich and Milan are not horrible places, but there are much more
rewarding destinations to spend your first trip in Europe. Would you
maybe be more interested in Rome, Venice, or the Swiss Alps than in
those cities?
"Budget: Limit , well I guess 2, 3 grands for everything"
You should be able to do it for $1500 assuming moderate-quality hotels.
bar...@cix.co.uk
soalva...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Thanks Folks, OK, how about this:
>
> Paris & Montpiller 4 days ( fast train between cities exist I guess 3
> hours, how much? )
Paris to Montpellier is about 3 1/2 hours. You can find prices and
schedules at www.sncf.fr. I'd guess about 100 euro.
> and 3 days in Switzerland, Zurich ( Not sure if Berlin or Milan more
> worth to see but I think I feel I like to see Swiss and which one is
> cheaper and more accessable)
That's a lot more viable, though I think you would be wise to spend an
extra day in Paris and one fewer day in Zurich.
Ref. "cheaper": Switzerland is an expensive country - if you are
concerned about budget you might want to think about Berlin or Milan
instead.
Ref. "more accessible": from Montpellier, Zurich and Milan are probably
about the same distance, or at least the difference isn't so much that
I would expect it to make a huge difference to your plans. Berlin is
quite a bit further.
You can find international train times at www.bahn.de (which has an
English version).
>From Paris, all three should be very easily accessible by flying, and
the difference in flight times isn't going to be significant.
Iceman
hours, how much?)"
2 days is hardly any time in Paris. You will definitely want more than
that.
"and 3 days in Switzerland, Zurich ( Not sure if Berlin or Milan more
worth to see but I think I feel I like to see Swiss and which one is
cheaper and more accessable)"
If you are interested in Switzerland, forget Zurich and go to
Interlaken. Milan and Zurich are both very expensive cities. Berlin
is somewhat cheaper, and is a good choice if you are interested in 20th
century history. Milan is one of the main international centers of
fashion and design, so if you are interested in either of those things
you might find it worthwhile. But don't try to see more than two
cities in any case.
"Again focus is shopping, 1 best attraction each ( I guess Paris will
be Louver and Eifel ) and Nightlife and making some new friends..."
Paris is a lot more than the Eiffel Tower and Louvre. If you only have
one week, you might prefer to really explore one place rather than just
getting a quick overview of multiple places.
"How about I rent a car? Bad idea? I lost and it very expensive for one
week?"
I strongly recommend that you take trains rather than renting a car.
Not only are rental cars (and gasoline) very expensive, but parking is
a nightmare in most major European cities. Meanwhile, there is an
excellent train system connecting virtually all points of interest in
Western Europe, and most major cities have fast, clean, safe,
inexpensive subways.
Go Fig
<phi...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> Skip Zurich and maybe Milan, take Paris and Berlin
> Your vacation time is too short
> ...but maybe that's all you get, as you're not an european, poor thing !
> Anyway, 3 days in Berlin, 2 in Montpellier and 4 in Paris
An actual contribution...
jay
Mon Jul 25, 2005
mailto:go...@mac.com
Runge
the group with all sorts of topics and comments that have nothing to do
here...
I think you're pretty gonflŽ !
"Go Fig" <go...@mac.com> a Žcrit dans le message de news:
250720051403467346%go...@mac.com...
> In article <42e54333$0$3139$8fcf...@news.wanadoo.fr>, Runge
> <phi...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>> Skip Zurich and maybe Milan, take Paris and Berlin
>> Your vacation time is too short
>> ...but maybe that's all you get, as you're not an european, poor thing !
>> Anyway, 3 days in Berlin, 2 in Montpellier and 4 in Paris
>
> An actual contribution...
>
> jay
> Mon Jul 25, 2005
> mailto:go...@mac.com
>
>
>>
>> <soalva...@yahoo.com> a Žcrit dans le message de news:
Runge
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <evg...@earthlink.net> a écrit dans le
message de news: dc3fl...@news2.newsguy.com...
DDT Filled Mormons
>Thanks Folks, OK, how about this:
>
>Paris & Montpiller 4 days ( fast train between cities exist I guess 3
>hours, how much? )
>
>and 3 days in Switzerland, Zurich ( Not sure if Berlin or Milan more
>worth to see but I think I feel I like to see Swiss and which one is
>cheaper and more accessable)
Do NOT bother with Milan. Berlin is fantastic, and has much more to
see.
But seriously, 7-9 days? Just see Paris and Berlin, plus the women in
both. Much better that trying to do everything in one trip.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
Padraig Breathnach
>On 25 Jul 2005 11:40:19 -0700, soalva...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>First time plan to go to Europe from Pittsburgh USA as solo traveller,
>>here is the paln I have in my mind, let me know if it is feasible, what
>>do you recommend and what I have to do to enjoy most:
>>
>>vacation time: 7-9 days
>>Budget: Limit , well I guess 2, 3 grands for everything
>>
>>Like to see: Paris, Zurich, Berlin and Milan
>
>DDT and I cannot emphasise enough that Milan is to be skipped.
>
Where's Mizzle? We might benefit from a different opinion.
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
Dave Smith
> Thanks Folks, OK, how about this:
>
> Paris & Montpiller 4 days ( fast train between cities exist I guess 3
> hours, how much? )
>
> and 3 days in Switzerland, Zurich ( Not sure if Berlin or Milan more
> worth to see but I think I feel I like to see Swiss and which one is
> cheaper and more accessable)
>
> Again focus is shopping, 1 best attraction each ( I guess Paris will be
> Louver and Eifel ) and Nightlife and making some new friends...
Count on a lot of time to go through the Louvre. It is a great place for
people who have studied the history of art. The Musee d'Orsay is nearby and
may be of more interest to those who are more interested in more modern
art. The Eiffel tower can take hours just to get to the top. I think the
view from Montmartre might be more interesting because it is so lively up
there.
>
> How about I rent a car? Bad idea? I lost and it very expensive for one
> week?
Bad idea. No visitor in the right mind wants to drive in Paris. Parking is
hard to find and parking spaces are much smaller than most people are used
to. Hence the bump and steer parking tactic used there. Paris has a great
public transit system that will get you anywhere you want to go, and the
European trains are fast, efficient and comfortable.
Iceman
for people who have studied the history of art. The Musee d'Orsay is
nearby and may be of more interest to those who are more interested in
more modern art."
To clarify Paris' major art museums, the Cluny covers medieval art, the
Louvre covers everything else up to about the year 1850, the Musee
D'Orsay focuses on impressionists and other late 19th century
movements, and the Pompidou contains 20th century art. Even if you
don't like modern art, the Pompidou is a unique building that you
should definitely see at least from the outside. The Louvre is
absolutely gigantic and contains far more art than you could reasonably
see in one visit, so you might decide to just pick a few of the
galleries.
"The Eiffel tower can take hours just to get to the top."
Tour groups tend to visit in the morning or early afternoon, so if you
go around 3-4 PM the lines will likely be much shorter.
"I think the view from Montmartre might be more interesting because it
is so lively up there."
Montmartre is kind of a tourist trap, but it does have good views of
the rest of the city.
Go Fig
Iceman <oneo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Count on a lot of time to go through the Louvre. It is a great place
> for people who have studied the history of art. The Musee d'Orsay is
> nearby and may be of more interest to those who are more interested in
> more modern art."
>
> To clarify Paris' major art museums, the Cluny covers medieval art, the
> Louvre covers everything else up to about the year 1850, the Musee
> D'Orsay focuses on impressionists and other late 19th century
> movements, and the Pompidou contains 20th century art. Even if you
> don't like modern art, the Pompidou is a unique building that you
> should definitely see at least from the outside. The Louvre is
> absolutely gigantic and contains far more art than you could reasonably
> see in one visit, so you might decide to just pick a few of the
> galleries.
>
> "The Eiffel tower can take hours just to get to the top."
>
> Tour groups tend to visit in the morning or early afternoon, so if you
> go around 3-4 PM the lines will likely be much shorter.
You could eat dinner at Le Jules Verne for about $300/2, in which case
there is no line and a private elevator to the 2nd level... this was
one very hard dinner reservation to come by... you will need to know
someone or book 180 days in advance... Lunch is much, much easier to
come by.
jay
Mon Jul 25, 2005
mailto:go...@mac.com
>
Carol Garbo
consider a Euro-Railpass if traveling by train. Ryan Air also has great
if you are flexible. Consider staying at hostels which are usually
clean and rather inexpensive. For meals, go to the local shops/markets
and purchase bread, cheese, etc. & make your own sandwiches. Your city
"wish list" is a bit ambitious for the amount of money & time you have
available. Ya might want to consider spending more time in the south of
France (which is SO beautiful) with your cousin. Check with the tourist
bureaus in the various cities as sometimes there are reduced dates on
specific days of the week for museums, art galleries, etc. In the
various cities, use a city bus (again buying a pass if you will be there
a few days) to get around or rent a bicycle. Carry your passport in a
holder that hangs around your neck at ALL times. Take travelers checks
and exchange them for Euros at local banks instead of at the airport or
currency exchanges. Make friends with the locals! Wear a smile (&
comfortable shoes) and have fun!!!! (Yep, been to Europe several times
and am returning there in about 2 weeks). Lemme know if I can offer
other suggestions. Carol
Our life may not always be the party we would have chosen, but while we
are here, we may as well dance!
BB
> To clarify Paris' major art museums, the Cluny covers medieval art, the
> Louvre covers everything else up to about the year 1850, the Musee
> D'Orsay focuses on impressionists and other late 19th century
> movements, and the Pompidou contains 20th century art.
Nice clarification! As a lover of impressionists but not particularly
interested in art history, I found the Musee D'Orsay to be wonderful and
the Louvre to be rather tiresome. The Louvre is huge, but it doesn't cover
every form of art - not something first-timers may be aware of.
--
-BB-
To e-mail me, unmunge my address
Carole Allen
NOT Travelers Checks. Take your ATM card.
On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 17:54:36 -0500, cag...@webtv.net (Carol Garbo)
wrote:
katyjane
to see
Zurich - why? Not unpleasant, but more a place to pass through on the
way to the scenic bits of Switzerland IMHO. Unless you have a thing
about banks.
Milan - never been so can't really comment. But the fact that I've
been to Italy several times and not yet bothered going there may be a
comment in itself. But then I'm not heavily into shopping (at least
not in Europe - BTW, shopping in Europe is *expensive*).
Berlin - interesting, although I've not been since reunification. But
it would be a huge detour.
With only 7-9 days I would spend the whole time in France - go to
Montpellier (get your cousin to take you to (Nimes) & the Camargue,
then go by train up to Paris.
If you really want to go somewhere other than France, you could go to
Amsterdam (4 hrs train from Paris), which would give you canals, a
different culture, & I think nightclubs etc (I seem to remember it a a
lively nightlife kind of place, but that was about 15 years ago).
Girls certainly, and er, other fun things ;-)
Or you could go to Barcelona (4/5 hrs train from Montpellier). Spain
is generally cheaper for shopping than any of the places you mention,
and Barcelona has a kind of lively, buzzy feel to it even though it's
not that modern really.
Katyjane
Ingeborg Denner
<soalva...@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1122322589....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks Folks, OK, how about this:
>
> Paris & Montpiller 4 days ( fast train between cities exist I guess 3
> hours, how much? )
>
> and 3 days in Switzerland, Zurich ( Not sure if Berlin or Milan more
> worth to see but I think I feel I like to see Swiss and which one is
> cheaper and more accessable)
I'd say Milan is closer. Best to check the timetables.
>
> Again focus is shopping,
You mentioned bargain shopping... depending on what you consider
a bargain, the cities you listed may not be the best choice for that.
Switzerland is always expensive, and while I know where to get bargains
in Berlin, I know that because I have friends who live there and told me.
>1 best attraction each ( I guess Paris will be
> Louver and Eifel ) and Nightlife and making some new friends...
>
> How about I rent a car? Bad idea?
If you are on a tight schedule, it's more efficient to use night trains
between cities. Also, driving in France and Germany can be a
slightly overwhelming experience. <G>
inge
Ingeborg Denner
have in mind is hard, but possible, if you enjoy seeing something
new every day more than getting to know anything better.
If I wanted to make a tour like the one you originally described, I would
work closely with railway timetables, take advantage of night trains, maybe
even book accomodation ahead so that I wouldn't have to spend time
looking for a room. I'd also try to get my cousin to come to Paris to
meet me ;-). I also would check the event calendar of the cites I want
to go to, and do some research on the best places for whatever nightlife
you want, because finding the right party in a foreign city of millions by
sheer luck would be like winning the lottery.
My first stop would be Berlin (because it's farthest from everything else),
or, if the cousin wouldn't come to Paris, Montpellier to get over jet lag
and adapt a little.
Recommendations on a more relaxed schedule and the value of
seeing more than one sight per city have already been made in the
thread, so I won't go into it.
inge
Jordi
soalva...@yahoo.com ha escrito:
>
> I also have a cousin in SDouth France ( Montpiller ) and like to see
> here for 2 days.
>
As different people have told you, too much to pack in so few days so,
provided you are going to Montpellier I'd split your trip between
Paris, Montpellier and Barcelona, which has quite exciting nightlife
(cheap, too, for euro standards) and shopping.
There are many budget airlines operating between Paris and Barcelona
(vueling and easyjet for sure, but there will be more), and Barcelona
is within 4-5 hrs. of train ride of both of them.
There will be different air carriers that may let you land in Paris
then go back to the US from Barcelona, so that you minimize travel
time.
J.
Italian Job
<soalva...@yahoo.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:1122316819.4...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> First time plan to go to Europe from Pittsburgh USA as solo traveller,
> here is the paln I have in my mind, let me know if it is feasible, what
> do you recommend and what I have to do to enjoy most:
>
> vacation time: 7-9 days
> Budget: Limit , well I guess 2, 3 grands for everything
>
> Like to see: Paris, Zurich, Berlin and Milan
> stuff we can't find in US also see top attractions in each city and get
> a sense of people. Nighlife try also, clubs, girls and fun few times.
>
> here for 2 days.
>
> list in each city?
>
drop MILAN nothing at all to see... only duomo and last supper.
in italy choose wiser: venice, florence, rome..... much much more better!!!
Juliana L Holm
> Ref. "cheaper": Switzerland is an expensive country - if you are
> concerned about budget you might want to think about Berlin or Milan
> instead.
Agree. It's probably cheaper to get there by train, but costs in Zurich will
be very high. I can recommend Berlin, lots of nightlife, very young city, lots
of hostels from the institutional to far less structured. Great public trans-
port and some real bargains for food can be found.
Julie
--
Julie
**********
Check out the blog of my 9 week Germany adventure at www.blurty.com/users/jholm
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
DDT Filled Mormons
YES YES YES!!!! CARVE IT INTO THE ALPS!!! MILAN IS CRAP!!!!
Better places in the region include Como, Lecco, Bergamo, Laveno,
Palma, Verona, Genova, or anywhere in Liguria.
(says DFM, who is looking for a place in Liguria, and can't wait to
get out of this shithole)
Juliana L Holm
I've read all the responses, and this is what I'd suggest. I think you
should do Montpelier, for two reasons, first the cousin, of course, and
that it is a smaller town. It gives you at least a tiny opportunity to
see some of Europe other than tourist stuff; to see a little of Europeans
living a little of European life. There is value in that.
After that, pick two cities. I'd pick Paris and Berlin. You can't possibly
do them justice in 2-3 days, but you can pick up some of the feel of the
place. Do things you want to do, but also spend some time just wandering
around. In Paris enjoy some local wine in a little neighborhood restaurant,
in Berlin a Berliner Weisse beer (or a "real" beer, as my husband says) on
a street cafe. If you go in Season, that is, you probably don't want to
sit outside in November.
Of these four cities, I have never been to Zurich, and I know Berlin best.
Paris is huge and spread out, with a great transportation system. In additin
to the art museums mentioned earlier, and the churches (Notre Dame, Saint
Chappelle, Sacre Coeur) there is the opera, the Arc du Triomphe and other
monuments as well as the Eiffel Tower. If you're going off season it will
be much easier to get into the Tour. Pick from among these the stuff that
interests you, NOT what books say you should do.
Milan does have some interesting things to see. The Cathedral is really
beautiful, and being up on that gothic roof with the gargoyles is fun even if
you don't care about churches. Again, La Scala is right nearby if you care
about Opera, and there is the Last Supper, one of the world's great art
masterpieces, as well as a really great castle with some interesting art.
But I think for what you are looking for, which seems to be primarily a
European youth scene, Berlin is the best choice. Berlin is a young city both
in the sheer numbers of young people and the alternative music scene, and in
its actual age; Berlin as it is today will be on ly 15 years old on October 3.
Make sure to check out free papers as to events if you can; the fact that I
know that the Kreuzberg neighborhood is a center for nightlife, probably means
that it no longer is. Berlin has enough museums of every kind to fill your
whole vacation, including modern history museums aplenty, Checkpoint Charlie,
the Jewish Museum, and ancient museums, i.e. the Pergamon. Get out to the former
East bErlin and see the wall at the East Side Gallery, as well as the TV tower.
If you do both Paris and Berlin, take a night train between them. As others have
suggested, I'd start in Montpelier, since it will be lower key and you will be
experiencing jet lag. Then three days in Paris, an overnight train to Berlin
and time in Berlin.
I'll also point you to Lonely Planet's web site. They have lots of information on the site for free, and it can give you a taste of what is available where.
Their thorn tree, with actual experiences of travelers is useful, also. Do
buy a guide or two once you know where you are going (I like Lonely Planet and
Rough Guides, and I usually buy several when I travel). It makes no sense to
spend a few grand on a vacation and not spend $20 for a guidebook that might
help you make that vacation much better. On the other hand, don't be ruled
by a guidebook. The hottest area in the guidebook is the area that was hot
two years ago when they were researching it, and there is NO better thing to
do then to just get out and wander in a foreign city, IMHO.
Julie
soalva...@yahoo.com wrote:
> First time plan to go to Europe from Pittsburgh USA as solo traveller,
> here is the paln I have in my mind, let me know if it is feasible, what
> do you recommend and what I have to do to enjoy most:
> vacation time: 7-9 days
> Budget: Limit , well I guess 2, 3 grands for everything
> Like to see: Paris, Zurich, Berlin and Milan
> Mostly interested in: meeting new people, real bargain shopping and
> stuff we can't find in US also see top attractions in each city and get
> a sense of people. Nighlife try also, clubs, girls and fun few times.
> I also have a cousin in SDouth France ( Montpiller ) and like to see
> here for 2 days.
> Let me know if this plan works and what is my best bet for each item in
> list in each city?
OughtFour
>
> How about I rent a car? Bad idea? I lost and it very expensive for one
> week?
Since you want to see cities, trains are an ideal choice for you. Also,
there is probably a night train from Montpelier to Milan or Zurich, to
maximize your time on the ground.
The only place you might want a car is in Montpelier, if you want to
explore the countryside and your cousin does not have one. If so, save by
reserving in advance. You'll be able to pick up a car at the train station,
probably.
Have a great trip!
Jordi
OughtFour ha escrito:
> soalva...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > How about I rent a car? Bad idea? I lost and it very expensive for one
> > week?
>
> Since you want to see cities, trains are an ideal choice for you. Also,
> there is probably a night train from Montpelier to Milan or Zurich, to
> maximize your time on the ground.
>
I know for sure there are night trains stopping in Montpellier for
Geneva and Ventimiglia, there it would be easy to take a swiss/italian
train to Zurich/Milan.
J.
tim (moved to sweden)
"Jordi" <jord...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1122389580.8...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
They may pass though but they don't stop (not officially anyway)
There are night trains to both destinations requiring wrong direction
travel to Perpignan first. This is unlikey to be cost effective.
tim
>
>
> J.
>
Stanislas de Kertanguy
> > I know for sure there are night trains stopping in Montpellier for
> > Geneva and Ventimiglia, there it would be easy to take a swiss/italian
> > train to Zurich/Milan.
>
> They may pass though but they don't stop (not officially anyway)
Not only do they pass through Montpellier but they have a technical stop
of over 15 minutes... but no commercial stop! That looks like a
deliberate stupid policy of SNCF. (if you on the group would like full
comments, I can make them, but it's pretty long and pretty late here :-)
--
inversez "kertanguy" et "de" pour me joindre
Jordi
Stanislas de Kertanguy ha escrito:
> tim (moved to sweden) <tim_in_s...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > I know for sure there are night trains stopping in Montpellier for
> > > Geneva and Ventimiglia, there it would be easy to take a swiss/italian
> > > train to Zurich/Milan.
> >
> > They may pass though but they don't stop (not officially anyway)
>
> Not only do they pass through Montpellier but they have a technical stop
> of over 15 minutes... but no commercial stop!
Amazing. I've always taken those trains from Cerbère so I could have
never thought that!!
J.
OughtFour
That *is* strange.
On the other hand, if I want a night train it is not the worst thing in the
world if the train doubles back through Perpignan or anywhere else. Whatever
the route I still get onto the train at night and get off at my destination
in the morning--that's the important thing.
tim (moved to sweden)
"OughtFour" <lus...@rnospam.com> wrote in message
news:wiMFe.1$QX2.0@trndny01...
The train doesn't double back, you have to take a separate train
to connect.
You therefore have to pay for a return journey Montpellier to
Perpignan which you would rather not do.
tim
Captain Dondo
Reading this, I sort of wonder.... When traveling alone, with a week or
so, I tend to take a walking map and a train schedule for the local
trains. I ride the train, looking around. When I see a station that
appeals, get out, walk around, see the local town, if there is a
restaurant and a pension, spend the night, otherwise get on the local
again and go on....
You see so much more with the slow locals than you do with the express
trains, and the towns are so close together that traveling like that can
be lots of fun.
Not for everyone, and you miss a lot of the tourist traps, but you meet
some great people and have lots of fun.
Besides, the purpose of a vacation is to relax, and that is about as
relaxing as it can get.
Juliana L Holm
I like this.
In the fall I'll spend 9 weeks in Germany. While my first weekend is planned,
and my last week is planned, and I'm attending a class on the 8 weeks in
the middle, I'll have lots of weekends to do just this kind of thing.
Sounds to me like a plan.
Julie
--
Captain Dondo
> Cpt.,
>
> I like this.
>
> In the fall I'll spend 9 weeks in Germany. While my first weekend is planned,
> and my last week is planned, and I'm attending a class on the 8 weeks in
> the middle, I'll have lots of weekends to do just this kind of thing.
>
> Sounds to me like a plan.
Find some of the 'dinky' lines - the one-car, often narrow-gage,
railroads. They afford some of the greatest scenery and fun. We just
took one last week - got to listen to the conductor talking to a buddy
about chasing women and where the best pickup bars were on the way out
and then to another conductor talking about the best places to pick
mushrooms on the way back.
Then too it's fun when you come into a town that hasn't seen a tourist
in a year or so; the locals have a hard time figuring out why you're
there. I've spent evenings drinking local wine and beer and singing
songs in a language I don't understand, and eating food I've never seen.
Have fun!
Juliana L Holm
> Find some of the 'dinky' lines - the one-car, often narrow-gage,
> railroads. They afford some of the greatest scenery and fun. We just
> took one last week - got to listen to the conductor talking to a buddy
> about chasing women and where the best pickup bars were on the way out
> and then to another conductor talking about the best places to pick
> mushrooms on the way back.
> Then too it's fun when you come into a town that hasn't seen a tourist
> in a year or so; the locals have a hard time figuring out why you're
> there. I've spent evenings drinking local wine and beer and singing
> songs in a language I don't understand, and eating food I've never seen.
Actually this probably won't happen (the language part) since I'm going over
to take intensive language courses. But the rest is quite possible.
Julie
poldy
DDT Filled Mormons <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
> YES YES YES!!!! CARVE IT INTO THE ALPS!!! MILAN IS CRAP!!!!
>
> Better places in the region include Como, Lecco, Bergamo, Laveno,
> Palma, Verona, Genova, or anywhere in Liguria.
>
> (says DFM, who is looking for a place in Liguria, and can't wait to
> get out of this shithole)
Work for the tourism office there do you?
poldy
Rita <nita...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >NOT Travelers Checks. Take your ATM card.
>
> Absolutely correct. ATMs are everywhere, standing on line in a
> bank takes up valuable time you could be doing something else.
> And banking hours are often not convenient. Money changers
> give you a bad rate -- ATMs are the way to go for the vast
> majority in this newsgroup.
You know, I believe that too.
But what happens if the magnetic strip is somehow erased? Or can't be
read? Or an ATM eats your card and doesn't give it back?
I've gone there with not single bill in local currency.
Guess worse come to worse, I could have dropped into a bank and had
money wired, paying some exorbitant fee or get cash advance on a credit
card.
Or just look for places that took credit cards.
poldy
Padraig Breathnach <padr...@MUNGEDiol.ie> wrote:
> >DDT and I cannot emphasise enough that Milan is to be skipped.
> >
> Where's Mizzle? We might benefit from a different opinion.
La Scala?
Then again, I've never bothered to check out L'Opera either.
poldy
soalva...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Again focus is shopping, 1 best attraction each ( I guess Paris will be
> Louver and Eifel ) and Nightlife and making some new friends...
Is there really something about shopping in Europe that is missing in
say NY?
I mean the grands magasins are something to behold but then you see the
prices for the same stuff available here, before VAT, and you wonder why
anyone would bother.
Zurich is suppose to be real expensive. But most of the boutiques and
luxury good shops are pretty much available everywhere, no?
DDT Filled Mormons
Last night we went out here in Milan. Even covered in mozzy repellent,
I got at least a dozen bites. On the tram and in the streets you could
see everyone scratching themselves. Even with a couple of decades of
globe wandering I have never seen anything like it anywhere.
The Milanese fashion is usually adorned with some squashed mosquitoes.
Carol Garbo
the fees for using the ATM. Perhaps my travels to Europe are different
than most people. We have friends/relatives with whom we stay; we speak
the languages; and it's very easy to find out the local banking hours.
Plus, my husband & I spend at least a month in Europe when we go; using
ATM's for an entire month would not be cost effective at all! Carol
Our life may not always be the party we would have chosen, but while we
are here, we may as well dance!
Kristian
>On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 06:11:29 GMT, DDT Filled Mormons
><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 18:09:25 -0700, poldy <po...@kfu.com> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <31cce1tuo428ptqo7...@4ax.com>,
>>> DDT Filled Mormons <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> YES YES YES!!!! CARVE IT INTO THE ALPS!!! MILAN IS CRAP!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Better places in the region include Como, Lecco, Bergamo, Laveno,
>>>> Palma, Verona, Genova, or anywhere in Liguria.
>>>>
>>>> (says DFM, who is looking for a place in Liguria, and can't wait to
>>>> get out of this shithole)
>>>
>>>Work for the tourism office there do you?
>>
>>Last night we went out here in Milan. Even covered in mozzy repellent,
>>I got at least a dozen bites. On the tram and in the streets you could
>>see everyone scratching themselves. Even with a couple of decades of
>>globe wandering I have never seen anything like it anywhere.
>>
>>The Milanese fashion is usually adorned with some squashed mosquitoes.
>
>Did you mention the malaria swamps yet?
And the crocodiles ?
Kristian
Jack Campin - bogus address
> I got at least a dozen bites. On the tram and in the streets you could
> see everyone scratching themselves. Even with a couple of decades of
> globe wandering I have never seen anything like it anywhere.
>
> The Milanese fashion is usually adorned with some squashed mosquitoes.
The greatest density of mozzies I've ever met with was near Yusufeli
in north-east Turkey. At night, the streams and irrigation channels
gave off a continuous roaring, gurgling sound, rather like being
next to a motorway. It was frogs, tens of thousands of them. Which
lived off the mosquitoes. Think about how many mosquitoes that took.
One very useful product that seems to be unique to Turkey is 5%
lidocaine ointment, sold as "Anestol". Beats insect bites like
nothing else. I've stocked up with several years' supply and
given it as presents to hillwalkers to deal with Scottish midge
bites.
============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
Rog'
> entire month would not be cost effective at all! Carol
I knew of a bank in a small town that did not have an ATM.
One of its officers said to me, "Why would anyone here want
to bank after hours?" That bank no longer exists.
I suspect that many banks work a an exchange fee into its rates.
In any event, one can limit the number of visits to an ATM with
larger withdrawals and in the order of things, ATM fees are rather
miniscule given the overall cost of the trip and their convenience.
=R=
Juliana L Holm
> You know, I believe that too.
> But what happens if the magnetic strip is somehow erased? Or can't be
> read? Or an ATM eats your card and doesn't give it back?
Um, I take a backup ATM Card (my husband's) on a different account, and a
couple backup credit cards. Plus I carry about $100 US with me. If I don't
need it, I have it when I arrive back in the US. If I'm desperate for
money (and I've not had the above situations, but the whole ATM Network went
down one time just when I arrived in the Munich airport. None of the ATMs
worked. I ended up cashing travelers checks (this was in 2000 and I was
still buying them). Today I'd have exchanged cash.
Since my daughter was in a Munich hospital recovering from surgery, I was in a
hurry to get downtown.
Juliana L Holm
> Use the ATM's if you wish. However, don't be shocked when you see all
> the fees for using the ATM. Perhaps my travels to Europe are different
> than most people. We have friends/relatives with whom we stay; we speak
> the languages; and it's very easy to find out the local banking hours.
> Plus, my husband & I spend at least a month in Europe when we go; using
> ATM's for an entire month would not be cost effective at all! Carol
I've not found big fees at ATMs. Is this something that has changed (I was
last in Europe in May 2004 in Italy, and November 2002 in Germany). I'm
headed over for 2 months in the fall, and planned to use my ATM card pretty
much exclusively for money.
Rog'
> I've not found big fees at ATMs. Is this something that
> has changed (I was last in Europe in May 2004 in Italy,
> and November 2002 in Germany). I'm headed over for
> 2 months in the fall, and planned to use my ATM card
> pretty much exclusively for money.
I drew 300 Euros from an ATM at the Florence SMN
station in June. I do not recall the exact fee, but it
seemed fairly nominal to me. =R=
chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco
Was that charge imposed by the ATM? (i.e. not your bank at home)
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco
> Carol Garbo <cag...@webtv.net> wrote:
> > Use the ATM's if you wish. However, don't be shocked when you see all
> > the fees for using the ATM. Perhaps my travels to Europe are different
> > than most people. We have friends/relatives with whom we stay; we speak
> > the languages; and it's very easy to find out the local banking hours.
> > Plus, my husband & I spend at least a month in Europe when we go; using
> > ATM's for an entire month would not be cost effective at all! Carol
>
> I've not found big fees at ATMs. Is this something that has changed (I was
> last in Europe in May 2004 in Italy, and November 2002 in Germany). I'm
> headed over for 2 months in the fall, and planned to use my ATM card pretty
> much exclusively for money.
The fee is to do with your own bank back home, so check with them. Fee
paying ATMs are not the norm in Europe. You encounter them in the UK,
but mostly inside convenience stores, pubs and hotels etc. Other than
those (which I avoid anyway) I don't recall ever encountering a fee
charging ATM in Europe. Where else to they have a lot?
Juliana L Holm
>> I've not found big fees at ATMs. Is this something that has changed (I was
>> last in Europe in May 2004 in Italy, and November 2002 in Germany). I'm
>> headed over for 2 months in the fall, and planned to use my ATM card pretty
>> much exclusively for money.
> The fee is to do with your own bank back home, so check with them. Fee
> paying ATMs are not the norm in Europe. You encounter them in the UK,
> but mostly inside convenience stores, pubs and hotels etc. Other than
> those (which I avoid anyway) I don't recall ever encountering a fee
> charging ATM in Europe. Where else to they have a lot?
Ah, this may be the case. I have a credit union at home; they don't charge
a fee for the first so many withdrawals.
Rog'
>> I drew 300 Euros from an ATM at the Florence SMN
>> station in June. I do not recall the exact fee, but it
>> seemed fairly nominal to me. =R=
> Was that charge imposed by the ATM? (i.e. not your
It may well have been my bank. My bank deducted $2 US
from my account (no international transaction fee). Still, in
light of the convenience in drawing that sum of money and
my overall expenditures, to me it was a piffle. =R=
Carol Garbo
using ATM's in Europe; it varies from bank to bank but some of the fees
can be pretty hefty. Carol
Carol Garbo
limit also applies to Europe and $300 per day isn't very much. My son
(who lives in Europe) goes with me to HIS bank so the fee for exchanging
travelers checks is very low. Travelers checks are easily replaced if
stolen or lost; not so, with an ATM card. Plus, you could end up having
your ATM card eaten by a hungry machine (which HAS happened to me).
Juliana L Holm
> if you are spending a lot on travel TCs can come in handy. We took them in
> 2001 when we took the whole family to Germany for a wedding. We either used
> them to pay hotels (we also stayed in hostels about half of the time, and
> were able to use them there also) leaving the daily ATM amount for food,
> admissions and the like. We always take a backup card, and a couple credit
> cards (backup card on a second account) GEnerally machines do not eat cards
> unless you have overdrawn, by the way. You may have misjudged something.
Sorry, left of the last line, which was, it is also possible the bank misjudged
something; that has happened to me!
Juliana L Holm
> Most US banks place a limit of $300 per day on an ATM card; that $300
> limit also applies to Europe and $300 per day isn't very much. My son
> (who lives in Europe) goes with me to HIS bank so the fee for exchanging
> travelers checks is very low. Travelers checks are easily replaced if
> stolen or lost; not so, with an ATM card. Plus, you could end up having
> your ATM card eaten by a hungry machine (which HAS happened to me).
I find that a phone call to the bank results in a change of this. That said,
if you are spending a lot on travel TCs can come in handy. We took them in
2001 when we took the whole family to Germany for a wedding. We either used
them to pay hotels (we also stayed in hostels about half of the time, and
were able to use them there also) leaving the daily ATM amount for food,
admissions and the like. We always take a backup card, and a couple credit
cards (backup card on a second account) GEnerally machines do not eat cards
unless you have overdrawn, by the way. You may have misjudged something.
Julie
Rog'
> took the whole family to Germany for a wedding. We either
> used them to pay hotels (we also stayed in hostels about half
Unless they're denominated in the currency where you're staying,
you'll suffer the hotel's exchange rate, which is usually poor. =R=
Juliana L Holm
It's not hard when you're doing a single country, to get them denominated
in the target country's currency. I don't think I'd do Travelers' Checks
now, but then it was easy, in early 2000 the dollar was very strong, we had
a big tax refund and some additional money, so we bought about $5000 in DM
travelers' checks for a wedding a year and a half away. Ended up, the dollar
got weaker, the checks were worth significantly more when we cashed them
than when we bought them.
The Euro also makes this possible.
Carol Garbo
back-up card). The one time my ATM card got eaten was in the States; I
was definitely not over-drawn but had simply dawdled too long retrieving
the card from the slot! Carol
Juliana L Holm
Julie
Carol Garbo
exchange. Carol
Juliana L Holm
> One should NEVER exchange travelers checks at a hotel OR at a currency
> exchange. Carol
I did not exchange at the hotel. I got the travelers' checks in DM and I
paid the bill with them.
Julie
Rog'
>> One should NEVER exchange travelers checks at a hotel
>> OR at a currency exchange.
> in DM and I paid the bill with them.
I found carrying an ATM card, a couple of CC's and a little
mad-money to be much more convenient than having to cash
a stack of TC's. Paper is passé.
Iceman
limit also applies to Europe and $300 per day isn't very much."
Assuming that you would use credit cards for expensive hotels,
restaurants, and shops, I don't see how anyone would really need more
than $300 a day in actual cash.
Most banks will allow you to raise your limit if you ask them.
If you want a limit in the thousands, then you are taking the risk that
if your card is stolen, the thief can do a lot of damage before you are
able to cancel it.
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Martin wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 14:50:29 -0500, cag...@webtv.net (Carol Garbo)
> wrote:
>
>
>>One should NEVER exchange travelers checks at a hotel OR at a currency
>>exchange. Carol
>
>
> You shouldn't buy them for travel in Europe. They are a thing from the
> past in Europe.
And even more so in the U.S.! I still carry a few on trips
to Europe, "just in case", but now American Express has
initiated an ATM-like card which one funds in advance (like
travelers checks), and which appears to be affiliated with
most major European banks' cash machines, that seems a much
easier option. (For those rare but annoying occasions like
my June trip to Brussels - where for some reason all the
machines I encountered told me my ATM card was not valid,
even though it had worked in Brussels during past visits.)
BB
> American Express has
> initiated an ATM-like card which one funds in advance (like
> travelers checks), and which appears to be affiliated with
> most major European banks' cash machines, that seems a much
> easier option.
Did you use those? How were they about transaction fees, fees to convert
currencies, etc?
--
-BB-
To e-mail me, unmunge my address
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Martin wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 09:37:23 -0700, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
> Can't you get an Italian debit card that works in Brussels or is that
> what gave you problems in Brussels?
How would I go about doing that, when I've lived in the U.S.
all my life? And why would I want to, when the card from my
U.S. bank works perfectly well within the U.S., and the
problem only arose in Brussel, this last trip? The Amex
"cash" card seems a much easier compromise between travelers
checks and a non-functioning ATM card (and does not involve
interest charges, as credit card advances did, this time).
DDT Filled Mormons
>On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 09:37:23 -0700, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
><evg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>Can't you get an Italian debit card that works in Brussels or is that
>what gave you problems in Brussels?
Are you confusing Evelyn with Barbara?
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
Juliana L Holm
Clearly you have not been reading the whole thread since this reply does
not acknowledge the reason in that specific situation that I got travelers'
checks.
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
BB wrote:
I haven't used one yet - I didn't find out about them until
I returned from Belgium, the end of last month. Hwever, as
Amex describes them, they work just like an ATM card, except
that they only access the amount with which you have funded
them. Since you use them in a cash machine, withdrawing
money in the currency of the country, whatever "fees" they
charge to "convert currency" are buried in the exchange rate
(which, in my experience with credit card charges, appears
to be pretty much the rate published on the various internet
sources that give you current rates of exchange). They make
no mention of "transaction fees", so I would assume there
are none - unless the machine you use imposes one.
Hatunen
wrote:
>On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 12:06:58 -0700, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
><evg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Did you use those? How were they about transaction fees, fees to convert
>>> currencies, etc?
>>
>>I haven't used one yet - I didn't find out about them until
>>I returned from Belgium, the end of last month. Hwever, as
>>Amex describes them, they work just like an ATM card, except
>>that they only access the amount with which you have funded
>>them. Since you use them in a cash machine, withdrawing
>>money in the currency of the country, whatever "fees" they
>>charge to "convert currency" are buried in the exchange rate
>>(which, in my experience with credit card charges, appears
>>to be pretty much the rate published on the various internet
>>sources that give you current rates of exchange). They make
>>no mention of "transaction fees", so I would assume there
>>are none - unless the machine you use imposes one.
>>
>
>So what does AMEX get out of it?
Well, mostly they get a float, just like they do with travelers
checks, i.e., they get to hold on to your money until you spend
it, and together with all their other customers they have a
sizable chunk of money to earn interest on.
It's not clear what the AmEx exchange rates are for these cards,
but for travelers checks it could be as much as a 7% premium over
the interbank rate.
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Juliana L Holm
> "Most US banks place a limit of $300 per day on an ATM card; that $300
> limit also applies to Europe and $300 per day isn't very much."
> Assuming that you would use credit cards for expensive hotels,
> restaurants, and shops, I don't see how anyone would really need more
> than $300 a day in actual cash.
Per person, maybe. When we went in 2001 we took three children (adult children
with us. About half the time we stayed in hotels, about half the time in
hostels. The nights we stayed in hotels (mostly 2 star) we had to pay for
three rooms, plus all expenses for five people. Some of those days would have
been challenging for the money to have lasted if we'd only has $300.
Some of these 2-star hotels and such won't take credit cards. 3 rooms can
add up.
Also, I personally don't like taking money out every day if I can avoid it.
So I can understand how it can happen. That said; I do not travel with
Traveler's Checks any more and did in 2001 only because of specific
cirucmstances. I still think they can be the easiest thing in certain
specific circumstances.
Julie
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Martin wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 12:06:58 -0700, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
> <evg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>>
> So what does AMEX get out of it?
Aside from daily interest on the unused funds on deposit
with them? What did they get when I purchased travelers
checks from my bank at no fee? (Some of which I am still
holding.) All that money "works" for them until they are
required to pay it out, and Amex is a very large company
with a great many individuals and businesses using its
services.
Timothy Kroesen
a good number to minimize fees and keep cash at hand for up to a week.
Tim K
"Carol Garbo" <cag...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1603-42E...@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net...
> Most US banks place a limit of $300 per day on an ATM card; that $300
> limit also applies to Europe and $300 per day isn't very much. My son
> (who lives in Europe) goes with me to HIS bank so the fee for
exchanging
> travelers checks is very low. Travelers checks are easily replaced if
> stolen or lost; not so, with an ATM card. Plus, you could end up
having
> your ATM card eaten by a hungry machine (which HAS happened to me).
Jesper Lauridsen
> Iceman <oneo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Assuming that you would use credit cards for expensive hotels,
>> restaurants, and shops, I don't see how anyone would really need more
>> than $300 a day in actual cash.
>
> Per person, maybe. When we went in 2001 we took three children (adult children
> with us. About half the time we stayed in hotels, about half the time in
> hostels. The nights we stayed in hotels (mostly 2 star) we had to pay for
> three rooms, plus all expenses for five people. Some of those days would have
> been challenging for the money to have lasted if we'd only has $300.
5 adults ought to have more than one card between them.
> Also, I personally don't like taking money out every day if I can avoid it.
But you have no problem carrying around TCs for an entire vacation?