Question: Celebrity/Princess
G&R
Most Celebrity ships are also 4 stars.
However we notice two Celebrity ships are 5 stars--Millennium and Infinity.
Does anyone know why these two ship are rated higher
and does anyone have an opinion as to which line is
better--Celebrity/Princess.
---
G&V
Benjamin Smith
line, fleetwide. Both lines are premium mass market lines, they are exactly
the same level in the cruise market. When Celebrity is 5 star, Princess is 5
star. When Celebrity is 4 star, Princess is 4 star.
Millennium has nothing over the Century class that would elevate it one
complete star. They are an expansion of the Century idea with some mild
modifications, the PSR (passenger space ratio) is a bit better, they have a
specialty restaurant, otherwise, the quality of the experience is similar to
the rest of the fleet.
What do you mean by "better" for the 2 lines? Most on rtc seem to prefer
Princess and rate them overall higher. Most cruise authorities rate them equal
though the cruise they offer differs in style from one another.
If you are interested in Celebrity please note Celebrity policies. Some regard
them as rigid and compared to Princess, they may be. I find them to be a good
value and have a reasonable amount of the qualities I look for in a cruise.
Ben S.
Shazinz
>If you are interested in Celebrity please note Celebrity policies. Some regard
>them as rigid and compared to Princess, they may be.
What are the policies you are reffering to??
-Shari
Henry J VanDoorne
I have been on both lines --I go for Princess hands down ! Princess
presentation of food in dinning room cannot be compared to any other line
that I know of.
Van in Sunny Texas 20 cruises world-wide
"G&R" <george...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:DP5T6.48542$Bn1.8...@news02.optonline.net...
Carole Dunham
hometown trattoria where eveeryone knows you and where you have dinner at
least once a week. Celebrity reminds me your town's finest French restaurant
where you dine for special occasions. I think the Celebrity ships (interior
view) are the most beautiful at sea. I'm a loveer of contemporary art. My
best friend, a fine artist, was asked to make a painting for Infinity. He's
already provided British Air at Kennedy Airport in NYC 3 huge murals and he
was exhausted, so he declined Celebrity. I'm not that crazy about Princess
art, but it's service that does it for me and both lines have great service.
I think the food is comparable. Some things better than others on each line.
Carole
cruz...@cruisemates.com
"Henry J VanDoorne" <hvan...@elp.rr.com> wrote in message
news:HJ7T6.86368$y_3.23...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...
Benjamin Smith
Shazinz wrote:
Reservations for alternative dining.
No carry on alcohol allowed onboard for consumption is the official rule that is
occasionally enforced.
Jacuzzis are available during the day and are not available during the evening and
night.
Strict hours for availability of food, nothing close to a 24 hour food court.
Sometimes ordering off of the menu in the dining room is frowned upon.
Sometimes public areas are closed, especially theater and dining room, during
periods of the day. Martini Bar and Michael's Club are open on a schedule.
Availability of pastries in Cova is available on a schedule. Celebrity, in
general, runs on a schedule.
The general sense is that Princess is much more flexible in their style of cruise
than Celebrity, Princess is into choices, Celebrity is into presentation and a
certain amount of formality in their cruise style.
Ben Smith
G&R
>Pay no attention to these ratings. According to Celebrity they are a 5 star
>line, fleetwide. Both lines are premium mass market lines, they are exactly
>the same level in the cruise market. When Celebrity is 5 star, Princess is 5
>star. When Celebrity is 4 star, Princess is 4 star.
----------------------
The reason for the question is because someone sees a difference and we wanted
to know what that difference was. On several cruise web pages (expedia,
travelocity, vacationstogo) they have rated some of the Celebrity ships 5
stars while other Celebrity ships and all Princess ships as 4 stars.
---
G&R
Benjamin Smith
G&R wrote:
I guess they are the only ones that can answer that. All three of these outfits
don't strike me as knowing that much about cruises. My feeling is they rate the
new ships higher simply because they are that - new.
You need a more cruise-specific reference, these are general vacations type of
outfits. See Berlitz or Frommers or something by John Maxtone-Graham for
references that are written by more knowledgeable cruise-specific authors.
Lots of what the general press or general vacation outfits write about cruises
are full of misinformation and inaccuracies.
Ben S.
>
> G&R
Johnny
"Benjamin Smith" <be...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3B1D15DA...@ix.netcom.com...
G&R
My feeling is they rate the new ships higher simply because they are that -
new.
----------------------
It does not look like that is the case. The Golden Princess is brand new and
rated at 4 stars. Some of the older Celebrity ships are rated 4+ stars.
Also it looks like the agencies mentioned do not rate the ships. We found the
following on expedia's cruise site:
"Independent, unbiased ratings and reviews to help you choose the right ship.
by Douglas Ward."
---
G&R
Benjamin Smith
G&R wrote:
The Golden Princess is the second in the Grand Princess series of ships. The
Grand Princess was introduced in 1998. The Millie was introduced last year.
Sometimes "new" ships are recently introduced versions of the last generation
ships. Princess' new class of ship will begin with the Coral Princess.
Unbiased ratings of Doug Ward? That's very debatable.
I don't know why they rate Celebrity's ships higher. Celebrity ships have a
similar level of quality and furnishing as Princess and HAL. The service and
other aspects of cruise experience are debatable - some reviewers would place one
line over the other. If you want to see a review my one of my least favorite
reviewers that rate Celebrity's new ship as 4 stars and is less than
enthusiastic about it see:
http://www.cruiseserver.net/travelpage/ships/cb_mille.asp
Star ratings are based on the criteria of the reviewers, and if they give
criteria, then you'll see exactly why they rate the new Celebrity ships higher.
For me, the Millie is a stretched Century in an RCI hull with modifications and
does not rate as the considerable step up that the Century had over the Zenith.
For me the Century's main restaurant is more magnificent and richer, the
nightclub is richer and more characterful, the Michael's club just as nice but
smaller, etc.
I don't see any justification for rating the Millennium higher than the Century
class. They must *really* value the specialty restaurant if this is the
criterion used to elevate it one star or even half a star level over the Century
class.
Ben S.
Benjamin Smith
G&R wrote:
I went to travelocity and looked at info and pics of the Millennium. The picture
identified as the Platinum Club is actually Cosmos, the forward facing
observation lounge. This is the sort of lack of quality control that one finds on
some sites.
But believe it or not, Celebrity has some horrible errors on their site with all
sorts of erroneous information within it.
Ben
>
> ---
> G&R
IRBGOLFIN
loved it, Costa for my second, not as good.
While on the plane returning home from Costa we talked with a younger,
childless couple (30s?!?), they had just been on the Celebrity Millenium which
we had "followed" on our cruise, so we got to talking. They had been on
Princess previously, and said that it beat Celebrity hands down.
Personally, I think it's one of those personal preference things, both will
appeal differently to different people. We didn't like Costa as well, others
loved it. To each his own, that's part of why the different lines have their
loyal followings.
Bernie
Benjamin Smith
G&R wrote:
Ok. Expedia is good. It uses Berlitz ratings, very similar to what's found in the
book. some of us here like Doug Ward, others don't agree with his conclusions.
It seems Berlitz rates the Celebrity ships very closely. Doug seems to share my
view that the Millie is an elongated, enlarged Century class ship.
My questions for you are what type of cruise and ship do you prefer? Do you have
a ship that is a comfortable size? How important is the cabin? How important are
the deck areas? I think if you are truly interested in Celebrity, if the profile
sounds right to you, if you can find a price and itinerary that's right for you
and have a choice of ship, then the point ratings from Berlitz may not matter
much, as they are very close. But you may want to start with a Century or Millie
class ship as they have more amenities.
Ben
G&R
the book. some of us here like Doug Ward, others don't agree with his
conclusions. It seems Berlitz rates the Celebrity ships very closely. Doug
seems to share my view that the Millie is an elongated, enlarged Century class
ship. My questions for you are what type of cruise and ship do you prefer? Do
you have a ship that is a comfortable size? How important is the cabin? How
important are the deck areas? I think if you are truly interested in
Celebrity, if the profile sounds right to you, if you can find a price and
itinerary that's right for you and have a choice of ship, then the point
ratings from Berlitz may not matter much, as they are very close. But you may
want to start with a Century or Millie class ship as they have more amenities.
Ben
We have been on Princess ships the most followed by Royal Caribbean, Carnival,
and a few others. To give you an answer to your question as to "type of
cruise and ship" that we prefer, we wanted an explanation of the difference in
the star rating between Celebrity and Princess. If we can determine why
Celebrity has some ships rated higher than Princess we may give them a go.
Perhaps someone in the group has read Berlitz--Doug Ward and knows the answer.
Otherwise we will probably stay with Princess for our 1st choice followed
closely by Royal Caribbean.
Thanks for the information.
---
G&R
Benjamin Smith
G&R wrote:
> ---0
I have the book, though the one I have is from 1999.
The Galaxy is rated at 5 stars and the Grand Princess is rated 4 1/2
Here's how it works.
Ship: hardware and maintenance, outdoor facilities/space, interior
facilities/space/flow, decor/furnishings/artwork/spa/fitness facilities.
Cabins: Suites and deluxe, standard sizes
Food: Dining room/cuisine, Informal dining/buffets, quality of ingredients,
tea/bar snacks
Service: dining room, bars, cabins, open decks
Cruise: entertainment, activities program, movies/television programming,
hospitality standard, overall product delivery.
Galaxy scores: 91, 91, 91, 92, 90, 93, 89, 85, 82, 86, 73, 85, 80, 81, 78, 84,
73, 85, 83, 90 a total of 1702
Grand Princess scores: 92, 81, 92, 92, 90, 91, 85, 77, 76, 71, 66, 77, 76, 76,
75, 87, 77, 86, 86, 91 a total of 1644
The amount of points determines the star rating
1551-1700=4+ stars
1701-1850=5 stars
Now, you can see why Galaxy for 1999 got 5 stars and Princess received 4+ stars.
Galaxy just made it.
Now, for me service, entertainment, food, decor, much of this is very subjective.
That's my problem with determining star ratings. Also these things tend to vary
cruise to cruise, except decor. But entertainment, especially so, will vary. I
also see nothing in these ratings about children care or alternative dining - two
biggies for some cruisers.
btw, Sterns from the same year gave GP 5+ ribbons and Galaxy 6. If you agree with
the methodology and conclusions of these cruise guides, Celebrity seems to come
out on top.
Ben
Tom & Linda
excellent choice for people who want to move up from NCL, RCI and
Carnival, but don't want to go to the more chic Celebrity ships.
Having been on 4 Celebrity cruise and 2 Princess cruises, here's what I
see differently and similarly between them.
Celebrity has slightly better food overall, particularly some of the
more unique things like Palm Heart salad. But Princess has better
pizza. Italian food on Princess may also be better.
Princess has better buffet hours (open all day) while Celebrity has some
hours in the afternoon when the buffet is closed (bad).
Princess' buffets, while as opulent as Celebrity's are "help yourself"
(you can pick the bacon you want) while many of the buffet items on
Celebrity are handled by staff and served to you, which is much more
sanitary (no fingers in the potatoes from the last person who had the
flu last week).
Celebrity's cabins are larger (vs. Sun class ships). But Sun class
ships have balcony quads.
While Ocean Princess was brand new, and in perfect condition, Dawn
Princess wasn't kept as clean/spotless as the Celebrity ships.
Dawn didn't have as good service as Ocean Princess and the Celebrity
ships. I'd rate Celebrity service a bit better overall. Though OP's
service was every bit as good as Celebrity's. But DawnP's wasn't
nearly.
While Celebrity entertainment is "decent" (not great... but that's not
their strength), OceanP's was also decent, but DawnP's was just plain
terrible. Probably the worst on all 15 cruises. It was SO bad.
Celebrity ships have extensive art collections on board (you may like
the art or dislike it, but it's "real" art). Princess' art is basically
paintings from Art 101. $39 specials by first year students, unframed.
The oil paintings in the stairways are laughably terrible.
The overall style of both Celebrity and Princess as far as from an
overall cruise perspective are nearly identical.
I think that the Century class ships are more stable in the water than
the Sun class ships. OP bounced like an empty Coke Can.
Celebrity has many, many more families. Princess is a bit of an older
crowd. A "touch of gray" crowd.
Basically on a 1-10 scale, if Crystal is a perfect 10, I'd rate
Celebrity an honest 8.8, and Princess an honest 8.6, while I'd put RCI
in the 6's, and NCL and Carnival in the 5's. But these scores are based
on what's important to ME. Primarily food quality and variety, ship and
cabin cleanliness, overall service and "general ambiance". I don't do
dirty carpets, worn astroturf, smelly shower curtains, insulting
comedians, lousy buffets, and terrible magicians very well.
Having said all that... we will use Princess and Celebrity
interchangeably. Since we don't go on the luxury lines, Celebrity and
Princess will be our first choices for every cruise. I don't see enough
between them to honestly pick one over the other. Instead it will come
down to price, itinerary, and availability of the cabin type that we are
looking for.
Just my honest opinion. Remember... it's what's important to ME. Not
what's important to others.
--Tom
G&R
All the information was very informative as to how the star rating system is
determined. We are in our late 50's and all things being equal,
we will stick with Princess as our 1st choice.
We found Princess personal to be consistently friendly and generally happy to
help you. Of all the factors that determine which cruise line to select, the
crew's interaction with us is a major factor.
---
G&R
Tim Rubacky
than a lack of flexibility and loads of pretense.
Both Princess and RCI offer more flexible dining options and just plain MORE
dining options. Whereas Celebrity's food used to be wonderful, it is, IMO,
just average with a lot of garnish and flourish to try and make you believe
it is some gourmet inspired 5 Star masterpiece. Celebrity tries to be very
chic and sophisticated but it is all "window dressing".
Princess's product, and RCI's as well, offer an excellent value. The only
reason I would choose Celebrity over the other two would be if the price was
drastically different. The past two times I priced a Princess cruise for
myself, I found Celebrity to be $200-$400 pp less.
--
Tim Rubacky
Consumer Affairs Editor, CruiseMates
http://www.CruiseMates.com
Internet Cruise Magazine & Community.
G&R <george...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PWdT6.50296$Bn1.9...@news02.optonline.net...
E.k.R.
difference between Celebrity, Princess, HAL and Royal Caribbean. That is
the decor.
Celebrity tends to offer a more eclectic and dare I say, "chic" decor. The
art work is modern and a bit daring, and the interiors remind me of
something you might find in an Ian Schrager hotel (especially the Millie
Class). Personally I love the interior design on Celebrity, and that plus
fairly good service keeps me coming back. I do think the food quality is
just a notch above the other premium lines, but just by a hair. The
presentation is by far the best.
While I have not sailed on Princess in a few years, I will remedy that
during a transatlantic cruise on GOLDEN PRINCESS this September. I'm
certainly anxious as to how she stacks up against Celebrity and Royal
Caribbean. Bart de Boer recently wrote an excellent review on the GOLDEN,
and he summed it up perfectly when he said that "Princess plays it safe".
Nothing daring, and maybe even a little boring. Not that there is anything
wrong with this, but there is something generic and homogenized about the
Princess decor. Very Hilton if I had to compare the decor to a hotel.
Royal Caribbean is truly the Hyatt of the seven seas. Their atriums are the
most impressive afloat, and they wrote the book on glass elevators! I enjoy
Royal Caribbean, and my last cruises on RADIANCE and VOYAGER did not
disappoint. They are beautiful ships, more bright and pastel than
Celebrity, but a little more daring than Princess.
Last is HAL. I'm not sure what to call the decor. It's sort of
traditional, but a little funky 70's looking as well. HAL seems to love
burnt orange, red, aqua, and smoked mirrors. Throw in some very large (if
not out of place) artwork, and you have an HAL ship. Out of the mass-market
premium lines, the decor on HAL is the least to my liking. I'm not saying
they don't have an excellent product, they do, they just don't offer what I
am looking for. It will be interesting to see their new Vista Class, as
this new class of ship seems to be a turning point for HAL. More mainstream
and less traditional from what I have seen.
Bottom line, each premium line has their strong and weak areas. A cruise on
any of these lines would be quite enjoyable, but I would not necessarily
rate one above the other. It's all a matter of personal taste.
Ernest Roller,
Atlanta, GA
"Tim Rubacky" <T.Ru...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:h4vT6.6249$Ji.5...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Benjamin Smith
"E.k.R." wrote:
>
> Last is HAL. I'm not sure what to call the decor. It's sort of
> traditional, but a little funky 70's looking as well. HAL seems to love
> burnt orange, red, aqua, and smoked mirrors. Throw in some very large (if
> not out of place) artwork, and you have an HAL ship. Out of the mass-market
> premium lines, the decor on HAL is the least to my liking. I'm not saying
> they don't have an excellent product, they do, they just don't offer what I
> am looking for. It will be interesting to see their new Vista Class, as
> this new class of ship seems to be a turning point for HAL. More mainstream
> and less traditional from what I have seen.
Not exactly, Ernest. Each of HAL's Statendam class ships has a different color
scheme, yet the decor is very similar. The Ryndam has cool blues, yellows, and
some oranges. The Veendam had reds, pinks, and vibrant colors. Maasdam uses
blues, oranges, copper colors mostly. I like HAL's layout - you don't go
through rooms as corridors, you sort of curve your way through passages and the
public lounges are on one side or the other. I think that the public areas
don't tend to show much variety, much of them have a similar style, but to me
they have "atmosphere", especially early evening. I do think HAL got a bit
adventurous with the Amsterdam's piano lounge and the Rotterdam's huge clay
figures.
The Vista ships have similar layouts to the Carnival and Costa Spirit class
ships. I looked at the rendering for the dining room on the first Vista ship.
Similar layout, and interestingly, the dining chairs look a lot like the
Millennium/infinity chairs. The Explorer and the Radiance have similarly
designed chairs as well in their DRs.
>
>
> Bottom line, each premium line has their strong and weak areas. A cruise on
> any of these lines would be quite enjoyable, but I would not necessarily
> rate one above the other. It's all a matter of personal taste.
>
Agreed, but I don't see anything premium about RCI. I get a feeling by boarding
a ship and spending a few hours aboard them, and onboard Princess, Celebrity
and HAL being served food and drinks feels different than RCI (I would say
mostly a softer sell, softer environment).
RCI strikes me as more fun and production oriented (i.e. singing and dancing
waiters), mainstream product that has some very sort of "catchy" elements to
the design and product - they do what they do extremely well, but I would not
call it premium.
I'm going on the Explorer of the Seas with a fun group and a totally different
type of attitude. I'm going to enjoy the cruise and company and I'm going to
give a Ben perspective vs. who the ship is for and how successful I perceive it
to be for them perspective. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised by some aspects.
Ben
>
> Ernest Roller,
> Atlanta, GA
>
>
E.k.R.
> Not exactly, Ernest. Each of HAL's Statendam class ships has a different
color
> scheme, yet the decor is very similar. The Ryndam has cool blues, yellows,
and
> some oranges. The Veendam had reds, pinks, and vibrant colors. Maasdam
uses
> blues, oranges, copper colors mostly. I like HAL's layout - you don't go
> through rooms as corridors, you sort of curve your way through passages
and the
> public lounges are on one side or the other. I think that the public areas
> don't tend to show much variety, much of them have a similar style, but to
me
> they have "atmosphere", especially early evening. I do think HAL got a bit
> adventurous with the Amsterdam's piano lounge and the Rotterdam's huge
clay
> figures.
My sailing experience has been on NIEUW AMSTERDAM and WESTERDAM, and I've
toured MAASDAM and ROTTERDAM VI. I found the decor clumsy. Possibly trying
too hard to be an art gallery at sea. Frankly, I don't like huge glass
showcases with oversized pieces of "art" scattered throughout the ship. It
just seems out of place. There is a lot to say for subtlety, such as a
discreet piece of art here and there. In addition, I think the atrium
center pieces on most of the Boxdams are quite hideous. An organ, clock and
a glass sculpture that would be more at home on Carnival. On all the HAL
ships I've seen (pictures and in person), they have one thing in common.
Red and burnt orange. I've seen these colors used on every HAL ship, some
more than others. I did like the settees in the elevators. I guess this
says something about the passenger demographics! :)
> Agreed, but I don't see anything premium about RCI. I get a feeling by
boarding
> a ship and spending a few hours aboard them, and onboard Princess,
Celebrity
> and HAL being served food and drinks feels different than RCI (I would
say
> mostly a softer sell, softer environment).
>
> RCI strikes me as more fun and production oriented (i.e. singing and
dancing
> waiters), mainstream product that has some very sort of "catchy" elements
to
> the design and product - they do what they do extremely well, but I would
not
> call it premium.
>
> I'm going on the Explorer of the Seas with a fun group and a totally
different
> type of attitude. I'm going to enjoy the cruise and company and I'm going
to
> give a Ben perspective vs. who the ship is for and how successful I
perceive it
> to be for them perspective. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised by some
aspects.
My intent was not to put RCI under premium, although it somehow ended up
there??? That being said, my recent cruises on RADIANCE and VOYAGER were
not all that different than Celebrity. Very minor in fact. Food is very
similar, service is a little more casual but all in all, not that different.
RCI has even adopted part of Celebrity's announcement policy, although some
announcements are made, there are very few. Nothing like Carnival, or even
Princess for that matter. I did not find Celebrity any more luxurious than
RCI, just different. Same cabin amenities, similar atmosphere,
entertainment options and so on, possibly just a little more casual. The
line is certainly getting blurred IMO though. Don't make the mistake of
comparing RCI with Carnival's "carnival like" atmosphere. They are night
and day.
I think EXPLORER might surprise you. It sounds as if you are lowering you
expectations, but I wouldn't if I were you. I feel EXPLORER and VOYAGER can
hold their own against any Premium or mass-market ship. I absolutely loved
VOYAGER, and that was the last thing I expected. These are truly "space"
ships, and rarely feel crowded. In fact, with a space ratio of 44.0, and an
excellent layout, they have more space per passenger than ZAANDAM (43.7);
GRAND PRINCESS (41.8); GALAXY (41.5); QE2 (41.0) and DAWN PRINCESS (39.7).
Also, RCI has done away with most of the singing and dancing waiters. On
RADIANCE, there was a classy presentation on the grand staircase in the
dining room, but that was it. No more America the Beautiful with blinking
lights ala Carnival. In fact, no blinking lights at all!
Enjoy yourself, and be prepared for many hints of Celebrity. In fact, many
of the staff are switched between lines from contract to contract depending
on where the need is. Several of the staff I met on RADIANCE had previous
contracts on Celebrity.
I'll look forward to your review!
Ernest Roller
Tom & Linda
and Nordic Empress, the food on our 5 RCI cruise was nowhere near as
good as food on our 4 Celebrity cruises. RCI buffets are much more
limited. The buffets have had nothing like smoked salmon, crepes,
exotic fruits like mango, etc. like Celebrity and Princess ships do.
Lobster on RCI ships isn't nice and crisp (to me an indication of
freshness) like on Celebrity and Princess ships. I won't even do
seafood on RCI (or NCL/Carnival) ships anymore... to many episodes of
DiGel. Usually you can't get a fresh omelet on RCI ships (though you
couldn't on Dawn Princess either - but OceanP had them).
I think RCI buffets are OK, but they simply aren't as varied as
Celebrity and Princess buffets. At least not on our sampling of 9
RCI/Celebrity cruises.
--Tom
E.k.R.
"Tom & Linda" <TKAN...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3B1EE271...@worldnet.att.net...
> Unless Voyager and Explorer are TOTALLY different from Grandeur, Majesty
> and Nordic Empress, the food on our 5 RCI cruise was nowhere near as
> good as food on our 4 Celebrity cruises. RCI buffets are much more
> limited. The buffets have had nothing like smoked salmon, crepes,
> exotic fruits like mango, etc. like Celebrity and Princess ships do.
> Lobster on RCI ships isn't nice and crisp (to me an indication of
> freshness) like on Celebrity and Princess ships. I won't even do
> seafood on RCI (or NCL/Carnival) ships anymore... to many episodes of
> DiGel. Usually you can't get a fresh omelet on RCI ships (though you
> couldn't on Dawn Princess either - but OceanP had them).
>
> I think RCI buffets are OK, but they simply aren't as varied as
> Celebrity and Princess buffets. At least not on our sampling of 9
> RCI/Celebrity cruises.
While I'm not a big buffet person, I did not find much difference between
MERCURY / CENTURY / GALAXY and RADIANCE / VOYAGER. Maybe I wasn't searching
for the more exotic items, but I just don't see a big difference. I can
confirm that there is an omelet station on both RADIANCE and VOYAGER. I
have a feeling the offerings on these lastest RCI ships are a bit more
extensive than on the older vessels.
I usually don't eat seafood (except lobster) on any ship, as it's all frozen
except on the very high end lines. I can't comment on the quality.
I certainly agree the food is better on Celebrity than RCI, but not by a
whole lot. A lot of the appeal is in the presentation, which Celebrity is
excellent at.
At the end of the day, Celebrity remains my 1st choice among the majors, but
the difference between lines (including mass-market and premium) is becoming
more blurred.
Ernest Roller
Benjamin Smith
"E.k.R." wrote: perspective. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised by some
> aspects.
>
> My intent was not to put RCI under premium, although it somehow ended up
> there??? That being said, my recent cruises on RADIANCE and VOYAGER were
> not all that different than Celebrity. Very minor in fact. Food is very
> similar, service is a little more casual but all in all, not that different.
> RCI has even adopted part of Celebrity's announcement policy, although some
> announcements are made, there are very few. Nothing like Carnival, or even
> Princess for that matter. I did not find Celebrity any more luxurious than
> RCI, just different. Same cabin amenities, similar atmosphere,
> entertainment options and so on, possibly just a little more casual. The
> line is certainly getting blurred IMO though. Don't make the mistake of
> comparing RCI with Carnival's "carnival like" atmosphere. They are night
> and day.
>
> I think EXPLORER might surprise you. It sounds as if you are lowering you
> expectations, but I wouldn't if I were you. I feel EXPLORER and VOYAGER can
> hold their own against any Premium or mass-market ship. I absolutely loved
> VOYAGER, and that was the last thing I expected. These are truly "space"
> ships, and rarely feel crowded. In fact, with a space ratio of 44.0, and an
> excellent layout, they have more space per passenger than ZAANDAM (43.7);
> GRAND PRINCESS (41.8); GALAXY (41.5); QE2 (41.0) and DAWN PRINCESS (39.7).
>
I'm basically doing research. I'm not quite lowering expectations, just
expecting a different type of product. I also may find some of the differences
in Celebrity and RCI bigger and more significant than you found them. The
different interpretations of two astute cruisers :)
The Millie is at 46 or so, the newer HAL and Celebrity ships will have higher
PSR than the newer RCI ships.
I have a tape that a fellow made of the activities aboard the Voyager in 2000.
I saw lots of parades in the dining room, lots of singing of cliches from the
DR staff (O solo mio), waiters dancing to the macarena, people on deck of the
ship and in the ice rink interacting with passengers similar to what one finds
in some amusement parks. So, much of this is what I'm expecting in the Explorer
- at least in the Caribbean. Was your cruise in the Caribbean?
>
> Also, RCI has done away with most of the singing and dancing waiters. On
> RADIANCE, there was a classy presentation on the grand staircase in the
> dining room, but that was it. No more America the Beautiful with blinking
> lights ala Carnival. In fact, no blinking lights at all!
>
> Enjoy yourself, and be prepared for many hints of Celebrity. In fact, many
> of the staff are switched between lines from contract to contract depending
> on where the need is. Several of the staff I met on RADIANCE had previous
> contracts on Celebrity.
Ernest, honestly, I don't wish to see much of Celebrity in RCI. I'm looking
for RCI in RCI and frankly, if I do see Celebrity in part I'll be very
negatively critical. I don't like one line trying to be some of this line and
that. Be yourself, do what you do well. What bugs me about any industry or
product is homogenization.
My feeling about Explorer is that it seems urban. The promenade and atriums
especially seem to be based on energy of the crowd, and, from what I can see in
pictures, it looks very familiar with a fair amount of scaled Broadway
megastore feel. But I'll see what it is like when I'm on the ship. I'll say
this, I don't see myself spending much time in this area - I'm a lounge guy on
ships and a deck guy.
And I just don't see Celebrity coming out with a ship with a centrum,
rock-climbing wall, skating rink, or having parades down the promenade, people
who interact with pax all over the ship - Celebrity doesn't entertain much.
They have the a capella group roaming all over the ship - I hope I don't see
this on RCI.
I'm not interested in is RCI's version of a smoker's club, to me this is
something that should be part of Celebrity and makes sense for Celebrity and
lux cruises, not for RCI. I'm not particularly interested in RCi's Portofino -
fine dining should be part of Princess/HAL/Celebrity, not RCI, IMO. I'm
interested in Explorer's RCI signatures, the centrum, viking club lounge, the
schooner bar, some of the entertainment, these things. I'm looking for the fun
elements and a different service style than Celebrity.
Regarding the ships RCI does not do period design. They hint at it but the same
commitment to it is not there. There's no RCI ship that has a Savoy Club like
the Galaxy, a specialty restaurant like the one's found on the Millennium
ships. For me Celebrity is more clubby, smaller in scope, more focused, and I
feel the ships are more luxurious, but in a mature and understated way.
Celebrity has their specific interior designers and RCI has theirs. I think RCI
is just moving towards woodier in Radiance in some areas, but the solarium with
the elephant theme is certainly different in feel than the Japanese serenity
feel of the aqua spa in the Millennium. RCI still tends to go for "prettiness",
Celebrity subtly stylish and very reliant on period themes.
I know that some Celebrity personnel have gone to RCI, but Celebrity is more
demanding on their staff. Whatever staff is on Celebrity they'll have to go
along with the program.
> I'll look forward to your review!
> Ernest Roller
Thanks. It's a while from now. I'm interested in the group dynamic as well as
experiencing RCI.
Ben
Charles
"E.k.R." <ero...@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:thtrrv5...@corp.supernews.com...
> confirm that there is an omelet station on both RADIANCE and VOYAGER. I
> have a feeling the offerings on these lastest RCI ships are a bit more
> extensive than on the older vessels.
When I was on Voyager there was no omelet station. It is good that they have
added one. I also have found the buffets on RCI to be less varied and lower
quality than on Celebrity and Princess. I did not think the buffet on
Voyager was more extensive than the buffet on other RCI ships I have been
on. But maybe they are making some changes in response to some of the
complaints that were made that food quality on RCI was falling which started
a couple of years ago.
E.k.R.
> I'm basically doing research. I'm not quite lowering expectations, just
> expecting a different type of product. I also may find some of the
differences
> in Celebrity and RCI bigger and more significant than you found them. The
> different interpretations of two astute cruisers :)
This is true. Two cruisers on the same ship can certainly have very
different experiences. Especially on the mega-liners of today.
> The Millie is at 46 or so, the newer HAL and Celebrity ships will have
higher
> PSR than the newer RCI ships.
These ships should have a higher PSR. They are "premium", correct? When
the mass-market ship has a higher PSR than the "premium" ship, a red flag
get's raised. The QE2 I understand, she was designed quite some time ago.
> I have a tape that a fellow made of the activities aboard the Voyager in
2000.
> I saw lots of parades in the dining room, lots of singing of cliches from
the
> DR staff (O solo mio), waiters dancing to the macarena, people on deck of
the
> ship and in the ice rink interacting with passengers similar to what one
finds
> in some amusement parks. So, much of this is what I'm expecting in the
Explorer
> - at least in the Caribbean. Was your cruise in the Caribbean?
Yes, my cruise was to the Caribbean. I honestly did not see the singing and
dancing in the dining room. On VOYAGER, I remember commenting that I was
happy it was nothing like Carnival. On RADIANCE, we actually heard people
complaining that they don't do it anymore. I was appalled on my last (and
probably final) Carnival cruise on the INSPIRATION where the waiters (none
of which were from the US) were forced to sing America the Beautiful. I was
embarrassed for these poor guys, although I guess they get used to it. Yes,
there are parades down the Promenade on EXPLORER. While it sounds hokey, I
actually loved them. They were presented in a rather eclectic and "Circ du
Solei" (sp) type fashion. Not your typical parade down Mainstreet USA.
I will say that I try out all the alternative dining spots, so it's possible
I missed the singing waiters on RCI. I am always there on the last night
(to distribute tips), and isn't this when they would normally do something?
In fact, I don't think RCI offers Baked Alaska anymore, at least not on the
RADIANCE last month.
> Ernest, honestly, I don't wish to see much of Celebrity in RCI. I'm
looking
> for RCI in RCI and frankly, if I do see Celebrity in part I'll be very
> negatively critical. I don't like one line trying to be some of this line
and
> that. Be yourself, do what you do well. What bugs me about any industry or
> product is homogenization.
>
> My feeling about Explorer is that it seems urban. The promenade and
atriums
> especially seem to be based on energy of the crowd, and, from what I can
see in
> pictures, it looks very familiar with a fair amount of scaled Broadway
> megastore feel. But I'll see what it is like when I'm on the ship. I'll
say
> this, I don't see myself spending much time in this area - I'm a lounge
guy on
> ships and a deck guy.
I agree Ben. I'd rather not see this blurring between lines. The fact
remains it is happening. I remember one story of passengers on the QE2
being served drinks with cocktail napkins from Carnival. This is the kind
of stuff I'm talking about. Nothing too major, yet!
Your experience on EXPLORER will be what you make it. The ship is so big
and diverse that depending on where you "hang out", will determine your
cruise experience. The ship offers "Celebrity like" nooks and crannies, and
also offers a very vibrant and exciting atmosphere if that's what you want.
The pool areas are large and do offer the games, but there are so many quiet
areas as well that you never even have to know they are going on. Timing is
everything I guess.
The promenade deck is wonderful. It has areas that protrude over the sea in
the area around the dining room. While it's not teak (except in certain
places), it is uncluttered, clean, and stylish looking with finished lights
on all the lifeboat davits. The fact you can stroll to the bow is also a
unique feature.
>
> And I just don't see Celebrity coming out with a ship with a centrum,
> rock-climbing wall, skating rink, or having parades down the promenade,
people
> who interact with pax all over the ship - Celebrity doesn't entertain
much.
> They have the a capella group roaming all over the ship - I hope I don't
see
> this on RCI.
Let's hope this does not happen. The atriums on RCI are beautiful, but they
exemplify what a large mainstream hotel would have. Celebrity has kept
their atriums small and elegant, more like a boutique or specialty hotel. I
hope that does not change, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
> I'm not interested in is RCI's version of a smoker's club, to me this is
> something that should be part of Celebrity and makes sense for Celebrity
and
> lux cruises, not for RCI. I'm not particularly interested in RCi's
Portofino -
> fine dining should be part of Princess/HAL/Celebrity, not RCI, IMO. I'm
> interested in Explorer's RCI signatures, the centrum, viking club lounge,
the
> schooner bar, some of the entertainment, these things. I'm looking for the
fun
> elements and a different service style than Celebrity.
I disagree here. Alternative dining is something that should not, and is
not exclusive to the premium or upscale lines. There is no reason why a
passenger on Carnival, NCL and RCI should not have a choice of where to
dine, including something special and upscale. Celebrity certainly did not
write the book on alternative upscale dining, in fact, they are rather late
getting in the game.
You will find all the "signature" RCI features on EXPLORER, and them some.
These ships are a true evolution for RCI, and they incorporate all the
traditional RCI features, along with some new ones.
>
> Regarding the ships RCI does not do period design. They hint at it but the
same
> commitment to it is not there. There's no RCI ship that has a Savoy Club
like
> the Galaxy
The Colony Club on RADIANCE comes close, and is probably even better. It is
more intimate as the areas can be cleverly sectioned off if desired. The
aft facing bar is truly unique, and I would certainly call this area
"mature".
>, a specialty restaurant like the one's found on the Millennium
> ships.
Hate to say it (and you know I am a big Celebrity fan), but the specialty
restaurant is the ONLY thing that currently sets the new Celebrity ships
apart from each other. Celebrity seems to be going the route of Princess,
identical ships with a few minor variations.
> I know that some Celebrity personnel have gone to RCI, but Celebrity is
more
> demanding on their staff. Whatever staff is on Celebrity they'll have to
go
> along with the program.
True, but it's hard to claim a more "exclusive" staff when they are rotated
among the "lower rated" brand as needed.
Lot's of good points Ben!
Ernest Roller
Benjamin Smith
"E.k.R." wrote:
That's what makes it urban like to me. All of the choices and picking what
"part of the city" to "hang out" in. I don't get this sense on the Millennium
or any Celebrity ship. Coming from New York City, I want fewer choices, fewer
people, less stuff around me, not interested in action and activities and
especially street entertainers so often encountered in the city - I want
minimal reminders of the city on a cruise vacation. On Explorer it seems you
can find quiet places, but sometimes going from quiet place to quiet place you
have to go through the "city".
>
> The promenade deck is wonderful. It has areas that protrude over the sea in
> the area around the dining room. While it's not teak (except in certain
> places), it is uncluttered, clean, and stylish looking with finished lights
> on all the lifeboat davits. The fact you can stroll to the bow is also a
> unique feature.
>
I'll be there. I love promenade decks.
>
> >
> > And I just don't see Celebrity coming out with a ship with a centrum,
> > rock-climbing wall, skating rink, or having parades down the promenade,
> people
> > who interact with pax all over the ship - Celebrity doesn't entertain
> much.
> > They have the a capella group roaming all over the ship - I hope I don't
> see
> > this on RCI.
>
> Let's hope this does not happen. The atriums on RCI are beautiful, but they
> exemplify what a large mainstream hotel would have. Celebrity has kept
> their atriums small and elegant, more like a boutique or specialty hotel. I
> hope that does not change, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
I don't think Celebrity will have the soaring atriums, just doesn't fit their
style. I don't think HAL will have them either and Princess scaled back their
atriums with the Grand over the Sun class. That seems to be the premium trend.
>
>
> > I'm not interested in is RCI's version of a smoker's club, to me this is
> > something that should be part of Celebrity and makes sense for Celebrity
> and
> > lux cruises, not for RCI. I'm not particularly interested in RCi's
> Portofino -
> > fine dining should be part of Princess/HAL/Celebrity, not RCI, IMO. I'm
> > interested in Explorer's RCI signatures, the centrum, viking club lounge,
> the
> > schooner bar, some of the entertainment, these things. I'm looking for the
> fun
> > elements and a different service style than Celebrity.
>
> I disagree here. Alternative dining is something that should not, and is
> not exclusive to the premium or upscale lines. There is no reason why a
> passenger on Carnival, NCL and RCI should not have a choice of where to
> dine, including something special and upscale. Celebrity certainly did not
> write the book on alternative upscale dining, in fact, they are rather late
> getting in the game.
>
It's not alternative dining it is upscale dining I'm not interested in on RCI.
Celebrity, to me, is following HAL here in having a fancier specialty
restaurant. The alternative restaurants on RCI and Grand Princess, for that
matter, are more casual. NCL has Le Bistro, though wonderful environment IMO,
it isn't the same type of formal upscale environment of the HAL specialty
restaurants or Celebrity specialty restaurants.
So far, Celebrity isn't do much in terms of casual alternative dining. The
casual alternative is limited. This I expect to change because so many pax are
complaining about it.
>
> You will find all the "signature" RCI features on EXPLORER, and them some.
> These ships are a true evolution for RCI, and they incorporate all the
> traditional RCI features, along with some new ones.
>
> >
> > Regarding the ships RCI does not do period design. They hint at it but the
> same
> > commitment to it is not there. There's no RCI ship that has a Savoy Club
> like
> > the Galaxy
>
> The Colony Club on RADIANCE comes close, and is probably even better. It is
> more intimate as the areas can be cleverly sectioned off if desired. The
> aft facing bar is truly unique, and I would certainly call this area
> "mature".
>
> >, a specialty restaurant like the one's found on the Millennium
> > ships.
>
> Hate to say it (and you know I am a big Celebrity fan), but the specialty
> restaurant is the ONLY thing that currently sets the new Celebrity ships
> apart from each other. Celebrity seems to be going the route of Princess,
> identical ships with a few minor variations.
>
You heard me complain about this. While the Century class feel like three
different Celebrity ships the Millie and Infinity seem like the same ship
inside. We'll see about the Summit. I also think the Horizon class ships,
though similar, feel like different ships as well. Here's where I really feel
RCI taking away something I regard as special on Celebrity. I remember
distinctly the Celebrity press release stating that all 4 Millennium class
ships would have unique decor and themes. They no longer say this. And for me,
the Millennium class are the least bold class and least interesting from
Celebrity. I like the Century class better.
>
> > I know that some Celebrity personnel have gone to RCI, but Celebrity is
> more
> > demanding on their staff. Whatever staff is on Celebrity they'll have to
> go
> > along with the program.
>
> True, but it's hard to claim a more "exclusive" staff when they are rotated
> among the "lower rated" brand as needed.
True, but that's the way of the world with mergers. Ford owns Mazda, Astin
Martin, Jaguar, and Volvo. Only Volvo has no Ford influence yet (though people
wrongly think they have something to do with the new rounder Volvos). Platforms
and some basic parts will be shared on all of the marquees in the future though
there's a huge cost difference from Ford to premium/exec Volvo to exec/luxury
Jaguar to the exclusive/exotic Astin Martin. These marquees have widely
different personalities and countries of origin.
So, some blurring of the lines is to be expected in the cruise industry. The
new ships are indicative of this with shared hulls. HAL has retained their
Jakarta trained crew, hopefully this will continue. I guess we'll find Carnival
bits on the more upscale divisions. But I do think that it is in Carnival and
RCI's best interest to keep the product's identities separate while trying to
make them all trendy and profitable.
>
>
> Lot's of good points Ben!
> Ernest Roller
Fun discussion, Ernest.
Ben S.
Linsifer
I'm curious, did these waiters actually say they were "forced" and did they
seem to really hate it? I'm sure there is some truth to this, of course. There
are a lot of things we have to do at our particular jobs that we probably feel
forced to do...no doubt about it. Just getting up and GOING there is force
enough for me somedays! :-) The other thing that comes to mind, though, is
perhaps these people are singing America the Beautiful not for the same reason
we do, but because the majority of cruise passengers ARE American, and without
us, who would pay their wages? So, to them, we might "seem beautiful" and they
certainly want to let us THINK we are so we'll keep providing the tips that
they so badly count on.Part of me feels badly for these people, but on the
other hand, their jobs as cruise employees are a far cry better than what they
would be doing in their own countries, especially if they haven't been educated
in a way that would allow them to earn a decent living doing something else.
Charles
> I will say that I try out all the alternative dining spots, so it's
possible
> I missed the singing waiters on RCI. I am always there on the last night
> (to distribute tips), and isn't this when they would normally do
something?
> In fact, I don't think RCI offers Baked Alaska anymore, at least not on
the
> RADIANCE last month.
As I recall they had cut the singing waiters to one night ayear ago. I
believe it was the night before the last night.
Eileen McDonald
more
demanding on their staff. Whatever staff is on Celebrity they'll have to go
along with the program.<<
This statement is the exact opposite from what we were told from the
Celebrity Century crew when we sailed on her, right after the takeover from
RCCL. The crew were very anxious and unhappy that RCCL policies were going
to replace those of CCL. And I was very surprised to see that the CCL staff
was MUCH more loose and casual in their interactions with the passengers. I
enjoyed this.... I loved the staff on my Celeb. cruise. I was simply AMAZED
to find us seated in a bar on Celeb when an officer happened by, he not only
offered US a free nibble from a appetizer platter, he offered the same
platter to the bar and wait staff, while we were sitting there. THAT would
NEVER happen on RCCL. ( RCCL staff told us they could be fired if they were
found to be eating ANYTHING, even behind the swinging doors, out of site of
the passengers ) I thought the gesture very refreshing. I also thought that
this amiable relationship between management and crew was precisely why we
felt that the service onboard was fantastic. We felt that the outstanding
service came from both upperlevel management and regular crew. Don't get me
wrong.... I've never had bad service on ANY cruiseline.... it's just MY
personal feeling (based on 20 something years as a waitress, bartender, AND
manager in the hospitality industry) that it ALWAYS produces better service
when management treats the service personal, as they themselves would like
to be treated. And isn't THAT what it all comes down to?? If the goal is to
treat passengers that way, the policy should run across the board!
Simply put.... I myself would be MUCH more apt to go the distance ( ie: work
past my shift hours or work on my scheduled days off ) for a boss that
treats me well.
BTW, both Officers and Crew were worried about the effect of RCCL'S work
policy's and how it would affect the service AND their ability to do their
jobs.
Eileen
E.k.R.
doubt any of them would want to sing "America the Beautiful" voluntarily.
While the crew on Carnival comes from many different countries, most of
which are poorer than the US, I'm sure they still take pride in their
country and probably feel a little strange singing an anthem type song of
another country. Frankly, it makes me a little uncomfortable having them
sing America's praises, especially when they are so poor. What meaning does
it really have. These people are not from the US, probably know little
about it or it's history, and really have no business singing about it. Now
if you had a group of Americans, or US war vets or something like that
singing, I certainly would be very moved hearing American the Beautiful.
All this aside, there were many Canadian and European passengers on our
sailing who were not the least bit amused hearing America the Beautiful.
At the end of the day, I just found it inappropriate and not very "p.c.".
Ernest Roller
"Linsifer" <lins...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010607122532...@ng-cb1.aol.com...
Linsifer
<<At the end of the day, I just found it inappropriate and not very "p.c.".>>
That's the trouble. Everything has to be "p.c" nowadays. Takes the fun out of
everything. :-) Or else the government is thinking up some new way to regulate
what we're doing. Sigh.....Big Brother at every turn....
Brenda
There is no PC in my book, and I didn't vote for Clinton either...... they started it.
lins...@aol.com (Linsifer) wrote in message news:<20010608013751...@ng-fd1.aol.com>...
Linsifer
<<here is no PC in my book, and I didn't vote for Clinton either...... they
started it.>
Nah...PC came before Bill. I did vote for him and of course we found out he
wasn't "always correct" in other areas of his life. :-)
Howard Baldini
self-service laundries yet. It's a small thing, but on Princess it's very
convenient to be able to press a shirt or wash a few things when you need to,
instead of waiting for them to do it. Price isn't the issue, it's the convenience
(and I can pack less).
Howard
Tom & Linda
One comment Linda made about Princess is that they seem to take the
things that everyone else does well and copy those. They may not do any
one thing perfectly... but they seem to do so many things very well.
And sometimes it's just little things that make a difference... like 2
gangways to walk off the ship in ports. The idea is so simple, but it
reduces the lines. The self service laundry is another example.
--Tom
ARNE UR
preference for the friendly "family" feel of Princess. My
wife and I agree wholeheartedly, and both of us share a
special fondness for Princess, particularly for that one reason.
However, having said that; after numerous Princess cruises, we
took one Celebrity cruise. The Celebrity cruise was better.
Not one particular thing; just everything in toto seemed to
raise the bar (ever so slightly) over Princess. Just the
cumulation of all the little things, all the little touches.
MacArne
KIB
hands down.
"Henry J VanDoorne" <hvan...@elp.rr.com> wrote in message
news:HJ7T6.86368$y_3.23...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...
> Hi G & R
> I have been on both lines --I go for Princess hands down ! Princess
> presentation of food in dinning room cannot be compared to any other line
> that I know of.
> Van in Sunny Texas 20 cruises world-wide
>
> "G&R" <george...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:DP5T6.48542$Bn1.8...@news02.optonline.net...
> > We normally book on Princess which are rated as 4 stars.
> > Most Celebrity ships are also 4 stars.
> > However we notice two Celebrity ships are 5 stars--Millennium and
> Infinity.
> > Does anyone know why these two ship are rated higher
> > and does anyone have an opinion as to which line is
> > better--Celebrity/Princess.
> > ---
> > G&V
> >
>
>