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Swollen Feet

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Shazinz

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Mar 30, 2001, 9:13:28 PM3/30/01
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Has anyone here ever had there feet swell up while cruising? What causes this,
and can it be prevented??

It happened to me, my husband, and my sister on our last cruise. All our shoes
were to small!!!

My Husbands feet looked like balloons with toes. As I look back at my cruise
photos, I have also noticed that my brother, while wearing his sandals, had
band-aids all over his toes!!!!
So, what's going on?
Shari

Pinelands3

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Mar 30, 2001, 9:22:48 PM3/30/01
to
>Has anyone here ever had there feet swell up while cruising? What causes
>this,
>and can it be prevented??
>
>It happened to me, my husband, and my sister on our last cruise. All our
>shoes
>were to small!!!

Didn't anybody tell you this is what happens when you sit around all week,
sipping pina coladas, ordering 3 appetizers, 2 entrees and 4 desserts, and
doing nothing more exerting than fighting with the shower curtain in the
bathroom?????? LOL

Jo-Ann>----------sorry, just couldn't resist

Charles

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Mar 30, 2001, 9:38:34 PM3/30/01
to

"Shazinz" <sha...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010330211328...@ng-cd1.aol.com...

> My Husbands feet looked like balloons with toes. As I look back at my
cruise
> photos, I have also noticed that my brother, while wearing his sandals,
had
> band-aids all over his toes!!!!
> So, what's going on?

It is called gout. it is from eating too much and too well.


Ermalee

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Mar 30, 2001, 10:12:36 PM3/30/01
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This is the first time I've heard of such a thing. I have gained
five pounds or more on a cruise, but never 'outgrew' my shoes. You
are apparently not talking about a weight gain here, but genuine
swelling. Right? Sounds very mysterious.

Ermalee <---still trying to lose those five pounds

G&R

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Mar 30, 2001, 11:09:03 PM3/30/01
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In article sha...@aol.com says...

>Has anyone here ever had there feet swell up while cruising? What causes this, and can it be
prevented?? <snip>
>Shari
-------------------------------------
Hi Shari,
We have heard of it, we have it, we know what causes it, and we know what to do to deal with
it. It never was a problem when we were young--just another older age problem. It first
started to happen to us when we hit our 50's. Our doctor told us that swollen ankles and feet
are from water retention. He said to cut out salt. We told him we don't use salt. He told us
to start reading labels and see how much salt we are getting from processed food. We started
to read the labels and found out we were getting plenty. On a cruise, all those tasty meals
are loaded with salt. Salt causes water retention, and water retention will go right to your
feet if you are hanging out on the Lido deck in a lounge chair all week. Solution--we take
along water pills--Indapamide 2.5 mg. It keeps it under control. If it weren't for the
prescription medication we would not be able to get in our shoes by the end of the week. We
remember the good old days when we would run out of the house with T-shirt, shorts, and tennis
shoes without socks. Now we are loaded down with hats, sunblock, chapstick, bloodpressure
meds, water pills, sweaters, glasses, second pair of glasses, dental floss, and on and on and
on. It is amazing what it takes these days to get us out of the house and on the road. Our
carry on baggage was searched at the airport last year and we laughed as we watched the
inspector pull out 20 bottles of medications, vitamins, remedies, and assorted stuff. He asked
us if we needed all that all the time. We told him no, we were travelig light and the bulk of
the stuff was home. :)
---
G&R

villa deauville

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Mar 30, 2001, 11:04:43 PM3/30/01
to
Have to agree with Shari, On our last cruise in October 2000, Splendour
of the Seas, same thing happened to me.

SUNNY<.........thought it could be too much salt in the food

www.GGC2002.com

OcnGypZ

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Mar 30, 2001, 11:21:25 PM3/30/01
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>Subject: Swollen Feet

All the time. And even when I really watch what I eat.

The culprit: SALT!!

I don't cook with it... and use it very sparingly on my food. Whereas the
onboard kitchens use it all the time!! Even the so-called salt-free items on
the menu.... I find VERY salty!!

Babette

Ermalee

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Mar 30, 2001, 11:27:47 PM3/30/01
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Salt? I am a salt-o-holic!

Ermalee <---with no swollen feet (yet)

jar

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Mar 31, 2001, 12:23:10 AM3/31/01
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I've some people react to salt, and some don't.
Was it worse later in the day?

Jeanette
(remove '.not' to reply)

"Ermalee" wrote...

Panama Guy

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Mar 31, 2001, 12:41:44 AM3/31/01
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Nobody has mentioned air travel to the ship's port. Last fall we flew
from Southern California non-stop to Boston for our fall foliage cruise.
I had been bothered a little bit with swelling (edema) before that
flight, but nothing like what happened then! I had the fattest feet,
ankles and calves! It never went away! I had a Dr. appointment
scheduled for a few days after we returned and my Dr. almost fell out of
his chair! He gave me a Rx for Dyazide to take as needed.
I'm pretty much back to normal now, but I still have more swelling than
pre-flight. Since then I have heard that it is not uncommon. Something
about air pressure and sitting for a long period of time. OK, and age
too. Ya got me there!
Vada

LINDA L COFFMAN

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Mar 31, 2001, 1:37:39 AM3/31/01
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Yes, indeed! I had the same thing happen after a long flight to Europe and
several days of touring in hot weather. I was wearing athletic shoes.
Since then, I wear Easy Spirit sandals and haven't had a bit of trouble. I
even wear them in cold weather with light socks. Salt may, or may not, have
anything to do with it... in my case it didn't. But shoes can make all the
difference in the world.

Also, drink plenty of water to flush out your system--particularly during
your flight. Drinking alcohol during flights isn't good for you, either. I
take daily water pills because of another problem but you should see your
physician to find out if those are appropriate for you. My swelling was
from water retention and was so bad that I could barely walk by the time we
were close to home. I wasn't taking my normal daily water pill because of
touring and not being certain of adequate "facilities"--don't do that if you
are on medication!
--
Linda Coffman
Cruise Diva
http://cruisediva.com
"The best islands in the world are the ones that
float and move. They're called cruise ships."

Shazinz wrote in message...

LINDA L COFFMAN

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Mar 31, 2001, 1:40:49 AM3/31/01
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We ladies "of a certain age" who are on Hormone Replacement Therapy have to
be cognizant of that edema problem as well. Water pills make all the
difference in the world! Aging... it's hell. <G>

--
Linda Coffman
Cruise Diva
http://cruisediva.com
"The best islands in the world are the ones that
float and move. They're called cruise ships."

Panama Guy wrote in message...

Saralyn Trusty

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Mar 31, 2001, 3:22:37 AM3/31/01
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Drink only water on flights will keep you from swelling up. Had the problem
and have tried it on the last few flights. No problem since.


Shazinz

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Mar 31, 2001, 7:37:17 AM3/31/01
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>Was it worse later in the day?
>

Yes, as a matter of fact we really noticed it getting ready for Dinner. One
night (formal) my Husband actually went to dinner without socks on!!!! ( I
wanted to throw him overboard)
We usually don't consume alot of salt, so maybe that is the culprit!!!!

Neil Gillis

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Mar 31, 2001, 7:43:06 AM3/31/01
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Have had this problem occur several times. Doctor suggested cutting
salt intake down. That is easier to accomplish at home, less so on a
vacation. Certain meds. will help along with sticking to water on flights.
Another thing the MD suggested is to get up and walk around as much as
possible on longer flights, if you can. He said this would apply to a
cruise. Walk that promenade deck.

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Shazinz

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Mar 31, 2001, 7:42:35 AM3/31/01
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My Husband brought up a good point stating that we have been to all-inclusive
resorts, where we were eating and drinking the same, if not even maybe a bit
more because the drinks were included, and we never had the swollen feet
symptom.

GOUT?? I don't think thats what it is.

G&R

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Mar 31, 2001, 7:43:23 AM3/31/01
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In article lindac...@prodigy.net says...
<snip> . . .
drink plenty of water to flush out your system--particularly during
>your flight.
<snip> . . .
>Linda Coffman
------------------------------
Linda, everything we have been told when we were young is the reverse now.
The doctor told us not to drink to much water. He said as you get older, the
body can not process the water as fast as it used to, causing water retention
and swollen ankles and feet. AND there is something more dreaded than swollen
feet on a flight--having to use the airplane lavatory--ughh. We try to drink
as little as possible on a flight to avoid using it.
---
G&R

Bungobird

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Mar 31, 2001, 8:17:27 AM3/31/01
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I always notice that in the winter here in the NE, my rings are not as tight on
the fingers. In the summer - hotter weather - my fingers swell and rings are
tighter. I would imagine that in addition to salt and all that good food,
drink and sitting that you are adding a warmer climate.

George in NY

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Mar 31, 2001, 8:41:23 AM3/31/01
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I would have to presume that you all flew to cruise embarkation port.
Swelling and air travel is well documented. They recommend taking a walk up
and down the aisle and massageing legs and calves from time to time.

FROM: http://www.healthatoz.com/atoz/HealthUpdate/Alert07152000.asp

When the cruising altitude reaches 30,000
feet the aircraft is pressurized to about
8,000 feet. Unless you are accustomed to
this altitude you may develop lethargy and
suffer from swelling of the extremities.

I know of no known problem that would cause this from just cruising.

--
George in NY
My cruise old links can be found on my pal and TA's page
http://www.bestweb.net/~travel1/
as well as recent Century review and photos and recent Destiny visit photos.
All photo are taken by me and not copyrighted ( page copyrights don't apply
to photo's ) and are herein declared in public domain for all to use,
preferably on non-commercial cruise pages.


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Ed Burke

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Mar 31, 2001, 8:59:37 AM3/31/01
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Its the salt in all the food.... Watch your salt intake and you should be
fine. Also, a water pill will also help, but check with your doctor before
taking one.

Eddie

--

===============================
Ed Burke

GGC----> Magnificent Mercury
SGC----> The Zippy Zenith
GGC2000--> The "New"Norwegian Sky
GGC2001--> The Voluptuous Volendam
SGC2001--> The Inspiring Infinity
Nov2001--> The Soaring Spirit
GGC2002--> The Sensational Sensation


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Charles

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Mar 31, 2001, 9:35:00 AM3/31/01
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"Shazinz" <sha...@aol.com> wrote in message
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> GOUT?? I don't think thats what it is.

I don't think it is real gout but I think it is from your diet. Too much
rich foods that you normally do not eat. Eating too well.


Tom & Linda

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Mar 31, 2001, 9:58:57 AM3/31/01
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Planes are a whole different thing.

With the decompression, and all the pressure changes... that's what
causes feet to swell.

On ships, you don't go through all the pressure changes.

--Tom

Mark

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Mar 31, 2001, 11:19:09 AM3/31/01
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> Has anyone here ever had there feet swell up while cruising? What causes
this,
> and can it be prevented??

Dependant edema, induced by gravity from spending so much time on your feet,
and possibly an increase in sodium in your bloodstream because of salt. And
I'm not even going to mention age, because I'm in my mid 40's and had the
same problem in NYC after a full day and partial evening of art galleries.
<bg>

Spend a little more time with your feet elevated in a chaise lounge with a
couple of alcoholic beverages which have a diuretic effect , if you so
desire, watch your salt intake and soak your feet in cold water if
necessary. That should take care of the problem. At least it did for me.
<vbg>


Take Care,

Mark

Tom Gauldin

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Mar 31, 2001, 11:22:17 AM3/31/01
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My instinct is that something is causing you to retain water. Perhaps
you are drinking salty drinks like Margaritas or Bloody Marys more on
a cruise. Perhaps you are salting your food more or simply eating
more. Another factor might be your resting or standing habits change.
Do you sit more on a cruise or stand more on a cruise than you do in
"real life?" Sitting more can compress the vessels in the back of
your legs, restricting the return of blood to the heart and causing
swelling. Stand does this as well, but reflects gravity and a longer
distance for the blood to be forced back up to your heart.

If you have swelling, my first suggestion would be to restrict salt
intake, and to sit with your feet elevated on a desk or chair in the
room. Walking has a "pumping" effect on the vessels in the legs, and
might be of some help as well.

--
Tom Gauldin Raleigh NC http://www.GGC2002.com
Here's to the land of the Longleaf Pine,
The Summerland, where the sun doth shine.
Where the Weak grow Strong, and the Strong grow Great,
Here's to Downhome, the Old North State.

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Tammy

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Mar 31, 2001, 12:11:12 PM3/31/01
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Hi, I have had the same problem, but only once out of 8 cruises. While
visiting the infirmary for a different problem my last cruise, they actually
had a handout sheet concerning swollen ankles and feet. So this must happen
to quite a few. The recommendations on the sheet were to drink plenty of
water and to elevate the feet, but in a lounger is not enough. The feet
must be above the heart. They recommended sleeping with a pillow under your
feet at night to get the right elevation.

Tammy

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CraftyGramma

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Mar 31, 2001, 12:27:27 PM3/31/01
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While on the past GGC, a small group of us were discussing this very
problem. Someone offered the suggestion that this sort of swelling happens
in the southern latitudes as you are closer to the equator. For some
reason, be it heat, pressure changes or whatever, this could contribute as a
possible cause. Any more comments? Maybe it's a combination of all of the
above?

--
Please send replies to: Crafty...@mail.com

H. S. HATCH JR.

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Mar 31, 2001, 1:38:51 PM3/31/01
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GREETINGS SHAZZZNIZZY

Years ago, while on a Royal Carribeam cruise ( Sovreign of Seas) , when
caviar was plentiful at the midnight buffets, I gorged myself on
caviar. The next day my feet were so swollen I could not get my flippies
on.

The only thing I did that was out of my ordinary routine, was to eat
caviar like a pig!!

After a day or two, my feet returned to their normal size.

HAPPY RAILS TO YOU


CRICK

luvto...@webtv.net

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Mar 31, 2001, 1:55:25 PM3/31/01
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Not only do I have the problem with my feet swelling on a cruise but
also the same thing seems to happen to my belly!

Margaret Fine

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Mar 31, 2001, 2:20:51 PM3/31/01
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Also consider how much you are on your feet! I have this problem of
swelling also and it isn't extra salt or anything just the fact that
when I am home I am not usually on my feet as much as I am on a cruise.
I walk every day at home but don't stand in lines, sight see, etc. Most
of us are not used to standing as much as you do while on vacation.

Shazinz wrote:
>
> Has anyone here ever had there feet swell up while cruising? What causes this,
> and can it be prevented??
>
> It happened to me, my husband, and my sister on our last cruise. All our shoes
> were to small!!!
>
> My Husbands feet looked like balloons with toes. As I look back at my cruise
> photos, I have also noticed that my brother, while wearing his sandals, had
> band-aids all over his toes!!!!
> So, what's going on?
> Shari

--

Margaret Fine
mef...@mindspring.com

j.o.boyle

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Mar 31, 2001, 2:45:55 PM3/31/01
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My ankles begin to swell during flights, especially long ones. By the
time I reach
the ship, the edema has expanded and involves the top of my feet
forming little
"pillows." It is the intolerance to high altitude and lack of
circulation because of
long periods of sitting. I have discussed this with the stewardesses
because I
notice they do not have any such problems regardless of their ages and
they said
to drink plenty of water so you do not become dehydrated causing your
body to
retain it, take frequent walks up and down the aisles, and stand
whenever possible.
Since I do all those things and still have the problem which remains
with me until I
am home for 2-3 days, I must have a high intolerance to the high
altitude changes.
I noticed on our Delta flight to Rome two weeks ago that the
stewardess came
around four times during the flight asking people if they would like
some water.
I do not salt my food at all on the cruise~so it is not a salt problem
with me and I
sleep with a pillow under my feet but the problem remains until I am
back home
for a few days. The tops of my feet are sensitive and sore from being
so swollen
and massaging them does help some.

"Tammy" <dtea...@lvcm.com> wrote in message
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*Muffin*

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Mar 31, 2001, 2:41:35 PM3/31/01
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this past ggc I had ankle swelling more than usual, but i was in the water
MORE than on other cruises. maybe that has something to do with it? plus
all the walking you do on sightseeing?

for ME, I doubt it is the salt(in food), as I use TONS of salt at home for
cooking & at the table.

Muffin > don't care ,, I'd rather be on a cruise, swollen feet & all!!


CraftyGramma wrote in message ...

jrac...@spamcop.com

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Mar 31, 2001, 3:38:53 PM3/31/01
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Ah Linda, aging is hell but its better than the alternative.

Joyce-->Getting older and better

--
"We do not see things as they are, we see things as we are." - The Talmud
"People demand the freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which
they avoid" - Kirkegarde
"Software without support is hardware" - JR/1999

Pinelands3

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Mar 31, 2001, 4:21:48 PM3/31/01
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>Linda, everything we have been told when we were young is the reverse now.
>The doctor told us not to drink to much water. He said as you get older, the
>
>body can not process the water as fast as it used to, causing water retention
>
>and swollen ankles and feet.

I have to disagree with your MD's advice. I work with geriatric patients, and
for those with fluid retention (i.e., foot and ankle edema specifically), we
are told to "encourage fluids." Of course, most of them are also on diuretics.
Elderly can dehydrate very easily, and restricting fluid intake is no way to
control water retention. Also, you might look into TEDS stockings, which are
compression stockings that would encourage proper blood flow back to the heart
(rather than causing pooling of the blood by gravity, like dangling feet while
sitting). However, the TEDS aren't the most attractive hosiery in the world,
and you'd be hardpressed to find a pair to match your swimsuit!

Jo-Ann

Emchouinard

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Mar 31, 2001, 7:35:13 PM3/31/01
to
Try drinking a lot of water. I was told the swelling is from dehydration and
the cure is water. Tried this on the next cruise and every one after that.
I've never had the problem again, and I use a lot of salt.
Ellen

Hal Turell

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Mar 31, 2001, 8:24:17 PM3/31/01
to
That is an old wives tale about gout being caused by good living. Gout
occurs when the body builds up an excess of uric acid. It is produced by
the body and you do not get it from eating.
It is not something to be ignored. It can cause crystals in the kidneys.
Fortunately there is a safe prescription drug for it called Allopurinol,
that is the genetic name. see your doctor right away.


Charles <fo...@his.com.remove.invalid> wrote in message
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>
> "Shazinz" <sha...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20010330211328...@ng-cd1.aol.com...
>

> > My Husbands feet looked like balloons with toes. As I look back at my
> cruise
> > photos, I have also noticed that my brother, while wearing his sandals,
> had
> > band-aids all over his toes!!!!
> > So, what's going on?
>

> It is called gout. it is from eating too much and too well.
>
>


Hal Turell

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Mar 31, 2001, 8:27:19 PM3/31/01
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I wonder which medical school that doctor went to. You are exactly right
that is the worst advice I ever heard.

BTW all this talk about swollen ankles, people should be aware that fluid
retention is often as symptom of Congestive Heart Failure. If you have the
fluid retention check your blood pressure.


Pinelands3 <pinel...@aol.com> wrote in message
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Linsifer

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Mar 31, 2001, 9:05:16 PM3/31/01
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When I was on my cruise back in 1988 and not as old as I am now:) (I was
37)...anyway, I noticed some edema (swelling) after a couple days of eating all
that salt-laden food. I'm sure that had a lot to do with that. As soon as we
got off the ship and started eating more regularly, the swelling subsided. I
noticed my "chubby ankles" in a couple of my pictures, though, and realized it
was "water weight".

Donnassei

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Mar 31, 2001, 9:09:50 PM3/31/01
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Hi Shari,
I had the same thing happen to me on my last cruise, I figured it was something
in the diet while cruising??? As soon as I got home they went back to normal.
If you find out what prevents this, let me know, tks.

Donna
Tuesday Chat HOst
www.cruisemates.com

kerry ambler

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Mar 31, 2001, 9:36:35 PM3/31/01
to
i am usually a lurker, but after reading all the swollen feet posts,
and noticing that no one has mentioned sitting, i had to chime in. when
you sit for long periods (airpane and dning room) your feet swell.
something to do with the knee bending and what it does to circulation.
this happened to my mother after hours of card playing at the casinos.
her doctor told her to take more walks and get a chair where the seat
hits the back of her knees differently.

Kerry Dee Ambler
ker...@webtv.net

dura...@energyunited.net

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Mar 31, 2001, 11:13:51 PM3/31/01
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On Sat, 31 Mar 2001 03:12:36 GMT, Ermalee <erm...@home.com> wrote:

>This is the first time I've heard of such a thing. I have gained
>five pounds or more on a cruise, but never 'outgrew' my shoes. You
>are apparently not talking about a weight gain here, but genuine
>swelling. Right? Sounds very mysterious.
>
>Ermalee <---still trying to lose those five pounds
>
My feet and ankles swell on every cruise - I attribute it to more
alcohol than normal, more food with a higher sodium content and of
course, all that salt water around me ! :-)

Mary in NC <---feet swell on a cruise and go back to normal when I get
home - if they never "un-swell" I am in big trouble!!

Constance A. Lowe

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Apr 1, 2001, 5:16:31 PM4/1/01
to
Hi, Folks,

I had, and heard others bemoaning, swollen feet starting about the second
or third day of the cruise, two weeks ago. For me...
--It was not the altitude during the flight, as I live at 7200 and 8000
feet.
--It was not sitting, as I walked constantly
--I did not salt my food, although I never noticed the food needing salt.
--It was not alcohol intake as I drank less than one glass of wine per
day.
--It was probably not dehydration, as I drank at least 1/2 gallon of water
a day, not to mention at least two or three lattes and/or cups of tea.

I did notice on the informational video that the ship produces its own
fresh water by desalinization. Is there any chance that a residue of
salt, too faint to taste, remains in the water? That would account for
water retention that got worse the more water one drank...

This is pure guessing, and as such should be taken with a grain of...Oh,
never mind.

Connie


: >Ermalee <---still trying to lose those five pounds


: >
: My feet and ankles swell on every cruise - I attribute it to more
: alcohol than normal, more food with a higher sodium content and of
: course, all that salt water around me ! :-)

: Mary in NC <---feet swell on a cruise and go back to normal when I get
: home - if they never "un-swell" I am in big trouble!!

--
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Constance A. Lowe Not speaking for UNM
Ph.D. Cand./Teaching Assoc.,Organizatnl.Lrng.&Instr.Technology
2nd Floor, Coll. of Ed. Ofc. Bldg.
The University of New Mexico
Albuquerque, New Mexico 87131 coni...@unm.edu

Hal Turell

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Apr 1, 2001, 6:28:55 PM4/1/01
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I think it unlikely that the ship's water contained salt. The ships and
airline foods (?) contain an amazing amount of salt. Look at the sodium
content of a can of chicken soup! I am on a low sodium diet and I am used to
reading labels. People should do more of this. I am amazed at the people who
heavily salt their food before even tasting it.

High sodium foods;
Sausage, bacon, ham, smoked fish, smoked meats, barbecue sauce, canned soups
and most restaurant and ship's soups. preserved fruit, nuts and snacks in
the bar, bread and rolls, butter except sweet butter, margarine,
Marguerites, Bloody Marys most exotic or tropical drinks, tomato juice,
canned vegetables and believe it or not, pastries and cakes!


Constance A. Lowe <coni...@aix04.unm.edu> wrote in message
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villa deauville

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Apr 1, 2001, 6:42:53 PM4/1/01
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Perhaps it is all the things mentioned. But some affect certain people
more than others.

SUNNY<.......knows that whatever it was that affected her on her cruise
she could not get her shoes on and looked like one of those Russian
peasant dolls tottering along

www.GGC2002.com

got2b...@yahoo.com

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Jul 28, 2015, 9:08:58 PM7/28/15
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On Friday, March 30, 2001 at 7:16:02 PM UTC-7, Shazinz wrote:
> Has anyone here ever had there feet swell up while cruising? What causes this,
> and can it be prevented??
>
> It happened to me, my husband, and my sister on our last cruise. All our shoes
> were to small!!!
>
> My Husbands feet looked like balloons with toes. As I look back at my cruise
> photos, I have also noticed that my brother, while wearing his sandals, had
> band-aids all over his toes!!!!
> So, what's going on?
> Shari

A lot of people's feet swell because the ship moves...when the ship moves blood "leaves" your feet and goes mostly to your brain and your equilibrium area. People who get seasickness, suffer mostly because there is an imbalance of blood and pressure within their equilibrium area. What does this have to do with feet swelling?
Well as blood rushes to your head and fuels your heart and equilibrium, your brain and heart then realizes a shortage of blood bellow your abdomen. When it senses and imbalance it may then send a surge of blood to your feet which in turn makes your feet swell and possibly irritable.
This may go on for several days until your brain reaches a constant ration of blood through out your body.

Bill

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Jul 28, 2015, 10:20:36 PM7/28/15
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Congratulations on setting a new record - responding to a 14 year old post!

RayC

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Jul 29, 2015, 8:08:56 PM7/29/15
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On 7/28/2015 7:20 PM, Bill wrote:

>
> Congratulations on setting a new record - responding to a 14 year old post!
>

Not only did he/she answer a REALLY old question, but he/she answered
with pure bull pucky as well!
--

Ray
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