Dinner and dressing up
Barry Kutner
Greetings all - We (me, wife, 2 kids) have booked our first cruise on
the NCL Crown to Bermuda in August. For me, the biggest turn off of
the cruise is the need to get dressed up for dinner. If this is
supposed to be a relaxing vacation, what is the point? Without
belaboring the issue, 5 days a week I dress up for work (not to
mention the added luggage). I'd prefer shorts and a tee shirt all
week! Any comments/insights appreciated.
Barry
--
Note - Remove the X from my e-mail address for direct replies
Appdad
w2...@itw.com (Barry Kutner) wrote -
<<Greetings all - We (me, wife, 2 kids) have booked our first cruise on the NCL
Crown to Bermuda in August. For me, the biggest turn off of the cruise is the
need to get dressed up for dinner.>>
Talk about coincidences, we've just been discussing this on a mailing list I'm
on. I agree with you 100%. I am very glad to see more and more lines providing
alternative dining opportunities so that you don't have to dress up for dinner.
I just wish now, one of the lines would consider providing a cruise that is
totally informal in nature, meaning that all evenings are informal in the
dining room. I can't help but think that there is a market out there for such a
cruise.
John
-----
John Davis app...@aol.com
By the Book
Hi Barry,
I hear you, but that's the deal. They make it clear in the brochures
before you book your cruise what attire is expected. Shorts and t-shirts
are not allowed in the dining rooms for dinner. In fact, on our RCL cruise
to Bermuda last summer, and on our NCL the year before, they did not allow
shorts after 6 PM in any of the "public areas" except the pool.
And especially on the Bermuda cruises, people do dress up for dinner.
You're OK on the casual nights with khakis and an IZOD type collared shirt,
but formal nights mean at least a jacket and tie, and you will see plenty
of tuxedos. (and yup, we have seen the maitre d' tell people in shorts
they'd have to change before coming in for dinner - although it was done
with impeccable manners, and so apologetically - the guy was smooth as
silk!)
That said, if you really want to stay in shorts and t-shirts all week, you
do have some options. You can order dinner into your cabin (free room
service) or eat in the sports bar or casual cafe each night. There are
always places to get food on a ship, and you don't have to eat in the
dining room if you don't want to. But if you do, they expect you to comply
with their dress code.
By the way, we'll be on the Crown to Bermuda from August 1-8. When are you
going?
We've never been on the Crown before, but we're frequent visitors to
Bermuda - if you have any questions, we'd be happy to try and answer them -
drop us a line!
Bon voyage - have a great time!
Kate in NY
Barry Kutner <w2...@itw.com> wrote in article
<6khfo1$n...@enews4.newsguy.com>...
> Greetings all - We (me, wife, 2 kids) have booked our first cruise on
> the NCL Crown to Bermuda in August. For me, the biggest turn off of
mike cordelli
If NCL is like most other lines there will only be one or two formal nights
where dressing up is expected, the rest of the dinners will have varying
dress codes, but no, probably none with shorts and a tee shirt.
There will be other alternatives on board to eating dinner in the dining
room if it really bothers you. Maybe an alternative restaurant, pizza
place, room service, etc would work as an alternative.There are usually 15
or more choices to eat meals during the day (not counting the new 24 hour
restaurants on some ships), you'll find something to your liking.
Certainly don't let this little thing bog down the enjoyment of the cruise.
Mike
Barry Kutner wrote in message <6khfo1$n...@enews4.newsguy.com>...
Stephan in TO
app...@aol.com (Appdad) wrote:
>I just wish now, one of the lines would consider providing a cruise that is
>totally informal in nature, meaning that all evenings are informal in the
>dining room. I can't help but think that there is a market out there for such a
>cruise.
>
>John
>
As a data point, when Regent Holidays up here charters their ships for
the winter, the brochures state "Tuxes are out, toes are in". They
state the men might wear a jacket and tie for dinner, but it's never a
requirement. I have seen many men wear informal or even casual wear
on my many cruises with them.
Stephan in TO
remove the "x"s to e-mail me
Ojycart
What's the big deal about dressing up? I have to wear a skirted suit everyday
with heels (no pants) but I am looking forward to wearing a "Gown" on the
cruise and dressing up with my brand new husband for dinner. We only get to
"dress up" when we go to the symphony and I love it. It's a treat.
Tracy
Becca
You will love NCL. The food is great, and their entertainment is the
best. Most of the time, they feature a celebrity headliner in the
showroom, and they offer broadway musicals such as Will Roger's Follies,
Dream Girls, 42nd Street, etc.
In this newsgroup, there are people who love formal nights, and people
who hate them. This debate clearly divides us just as much as topics
like "smoking" or "babies on cruises".
Having to play "dress-up" while on vacation stinks, IMO. I love
cruises, and that is the only reason I tolerate it; that's the price you
have to pay.
Six days a week, I have to wear stockings and high heels, plus do the
hair and makeup routine. I dressed for the theater on Easter Sunday,
then again on May 15th. I have about a dozen formal occasions per year,
I don't need this kinda cr*p while I'm on vacation. There are only two
formal nights on most 7-day cruises, and I would be happy if they cut it
down to one! One formal night would not be too much to ask of casual
people like myself, and it would please the Cinderella wannabes.
Becca <-----currently wearing a smile...
Ken Gruen
I beg to disagree! My wife and I will be cruising on the Monarch Of The
Seas in a few days, and we feel that dressing up is one of the nicest and
most exciting parts of the cruise. Believe me, it feels very special to
dress formally (or even fashionably) and it adds an air of class that
people rarely feel at home. Christine and I are both professionals who must
do the suit and tie thing every day at work, but we would not go on a cruise
if everyone looked like they just wandered in from the pool or rolled out of
bed when they are seated at the dinner table.
Barry Kutner wrote in message <6khfo1$n...@enews4.newsguy.com>...
>Greetings all - We (me, wife, 2 kids) have booked our first cruise on
>the NCL Crown to Bermuda in August. For me, the biggest turn off of
Go Fig
>You will love NCL. The food is great, and their entertainment is the
>best. Most of the time, they feature a celebrity headliner in the
>showroom, and they offer broadway musicals such as Will Roger's Follies,
>Dream Girls, 42nd Street, etc.
>
>In this newsgroup, there are people who love formal nights, and people
>who hate them. This debate clearly divides us just as much as topics
>like "smoking" or "babies on cruises".
>
>Having to play "dress-up" while on vacation stinks, IMO. I love
>cruises, and that is the only reason I tolerate it; that's the price you
>have to pay.
Išll second that. . . but what I hate even more is that it is not JUST
dinner. . . It _sets the mood_ of the evening (read: Public Places).
Now this next cruise will be Alaska (days away now) and the night time
temp could even dictate a jacket while on deck. . . but the Carib., S.
China Sea., S. Pacific., Panama . . . I hated It and usually must always
get , at least, the shirt cleaned (on board) for the second round.
But as I said this times Alaska. . . so I even sprung for a new vest and a
few other acces. to jazz it up a bit. (išll be buying at least one Photo
for sure) :>:>
jay
Wednesday, May 27, 1998
who admittedly (here anyways) now buys Levi_s that say:
_relaxed fit_
BTW: this is yet another in a long line of NEWS servers... I hope I make
it to the outside world.
linda shindler
Hi, all, I also don't like dressing up. In fact, we've all started
dressing down at work so I hardly even have the proper clothes anymore.
But I don't mind dressing up on formal and semi-formal nights, as it puts
me more in the mood of a special occasion. And a cruise is some special
occasion! We also try to get at least one nice photo taken as we have
never gone to a gallery to have that done in our 31 years of marriage.
Hope you and your family enjoy cruising as much as I do!
Tom & Linda
If you don't want to wear work clothes, why not a tux? James Bond looks
great in a tux. Most guys do. I'm thinking about a tux for our next
cruise.
--Tom (who thinks the ladies look great in cocktail dresses also)
Lee Schwartzberg wrote:
>
> In article <6khjrn$f...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, "mike cordelli"
> <mi...@cordelli.com> wrote:
>
> > There will be other alternatives on board to eating dinner in the dining
> > room if it really bothers you. Maybe an alternative restaurant, pizza
> > place, room service, etc would work as an alternative.There are usually 15
> > or more choices to eat meals during the day (not counting the new 24 hour
> > restaurants on some ships), you'll find something to your liking.
>
> Sure, there's always a place to eat, where you only have to dress
> casually, but by dining in any locale other than the dining room, you
> really take a plunge when it comes to food quality and service. Although
> the Sports Bar (NCL) and Windjammer (RCL) are dining alternatives, we
> should be clear here, that you're not going to get the same quality of
> food.
>
> I don't have to dress up for work, and maybe if I did, I'd feel
> differently about having to do it on a cruise ship. But when you cruise,
> dressing nicely adds to the overall festive mood of the experience. Leave
> your work clothes home, and bring along some special stuff to wear, so you
> won't be thinking about work.
>
> Lee
> >
> > Certainly don't let this little thing bog down the enjoyment of the cruise.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > Barry Kutner wrote in message <6khfo1$n...@enews4.newsguy.com>...
Peter Bugda
Hey! Why not give it a shot...your way. Y`know, come to dinner dressed
in your frayed and torn dungarees...a t-shirt with some clever social
comment on it....a cap worn backwards...no socks and dirty
sneakers,,,and laces hanging loose.....But....dressed as a man? ....with
the courage of his convictions...a "master of his domain"..."Not that
there is anything wrong with that". I`m sure you will be a big
hit....one way or the other. You will have to make that choice.
Peter
que sera sera
Carol
I agree, I don't much care to dress all up. I'm not a wealthy have
nothing better to do then take cruises. I saved and scrapped to do
this. I surely don't have extra 100's laying around for suits and
dresses. Plus to be honest, it my vacation. I want to set back and
relax. Not fuss on dressing up. Probably wouldn't mind a dress one
night for a special night. But everynight, I don't think so. I
believe different strokes for different fokes. Come as you wish.
Dressing up your thing, well go for it. Wearing those bermuda shorts.
Well, its your party you paid the bill.
carol
--
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__/ /___/ /___/ /___/ /____
___/o_o_o_o_o_o_o_o_o_o_o_o_ ]____
\ o o o o o o o o o o o /
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Can I lead ya in a cruise?
Appdad
lee...@campmor.com (Lee Schwartzberg) wrote -
<<I don't have to dress up for work, and maybe if I did, I'd feel
differently about having to do it on a cruise ship. But when you cruise,
dressing nicely adds to the overall festive mood of the experience. >>
How does it do this? All it does is make me uncomfortable and detracts from the
enjoyment of the food. I'm not sure at all how it adds to the overall festive
mood. In fact, the word festive to me has a somewhat casual connotation to it.
CupCaked
On 28 May 1998, app...@aol.com (Appdad) wrote:
><<I don't have to dress up for work, and maybe if I did, I'd feel
>differently about having to do it on a cruise ship. But when you cruise,
>dressing nicely adds to the overall festive mood of the experience. >>
>
>How does it do this? All it does is make me uncomfortable and detracts from the
>enjoyment of the food.
Oh, c'mon, John. I bet you look VERY dishy in a tux!
CupCaked ( flirting?? )
_________________________________________
http://members.ultracom.net/karens/
( please leave out the POTATOES to e-mail )
LaTa3
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Dinner and dressing up
>From: app...@aol.com (Appdad)
>Date: Wed, May 27, 1998 21:10
> when you cruise,
>dressing nicely adds to the overall festive mood of the experience. >>
>
>How does it do this? All it does is make me uncomfortable and detracts from
>the
>enjoyment of the food. I'm not sure at all how it adds to the overall festive
>mood. In fact, the word festive to me has a somewhat casual connotation to
>it.
If you can only be comfy in your t shirt and shorts, then you should go to an
alternative dining option such as a buffet or room service.As someone else
said, that also means you many not get the same food as in the dining room, but
that is the same as on land, so what is the beef? You can't go to a fancy
restaurant on land in your tee shirt and shorts either. But you can go to
McDonalds like that and then you can eat their food, right?
I hate to see people insisting that more of the enjoyable traditions of
cruising be scrapped as more and more middle America types become cruisers. I
was not brought up dining in fancy places, but I know how to dress for them now
when I go, and I do so on the ships as well. The alternative dining options
should be plenty to satisfy the t shirt crowd. don't ruin the lovely atmosphere
in the dining room for everyone else by insisting that it all be super casual.
Or take a Windjammer cruise, on those you can eat dinner in your bathing trunks
if you want. See, lots of options without ruining the nice dining room!!
Las Tres Amigas "I know we're almost there cause we had just enough fuel to get
there & we're almost out of fuel."
Karina Wright
>If you don't want to wear work clothes, why not a tux? James Bond looks
>great in a tux. Most guys do. I'm thinking about a tux for our next
>cruise.
They keep saying that tuxes are on the way out which I think is a real
shame. As you say, most guys look good in a tux. Actually, I have
never seen anyone who looks bad in a tux (I am referring to a classic
black tux, not a lime green creation).
At my wedding we had a range of ushers ranging from a classicly
handsome 6-footer to a short skinny red-headed guy to an reasonably
rotund gentleman each in tux, top-hat and cane (okay, so we got a
smidge carried away) and every one of them looked good.
I don't see as how a tux can be that much more uncomfortable than a
suit, personally.
ttfn/Karina
e-mail kar...@fred.net
home page: http://www.fred.net/karina
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Mark
I know this is a matter of personal preference, and there are many who would
prefer to wear casual clothes at all times, but I've got to put my vote in
for formality.
Most "fancy" restaurants on land have a dress code -- why shouldn't ships?
(especially since there are now casual options so you don't have to starve -
as it that's possible on a ship!).
Why do ships have nice china, heavy silverware and linen napkins? They have
the fine settings because it adds to the experience of the meal. Likewise,
the sight of the diners dressed to the nines, lit by flattering nighttime
lighting, adds to the tableau.
On our last cruise on the QE2, there were 6 formal nights. My partner and I
each had 5 different accessories for our tuxes (we miscalculated). We
received compliments by many other diners in the Queens Grill -- it was fun
and flattering (being complimented on your formal dress in the QG is high
praise indeed!).
What does wearing a suit to work have to do with dressing up for dinner?
Yes, I do dress in jacket and tie for work, and I wear neither a tux nor
sportcoat to a pool party. Different occasions call for different clothes.
By the way, why do we have all those different pieces of silverware? They can
be intimidating to someone who can't master "outside to inside" rule so let's
just replace them all with those funny plastic spork things? ...and while
we're at it, since we know that all that service by tuxedoed waiters is
simply aping the obsolete class-based system of bygone ages, let's go to the
galleys and pick up the plates ourselves.
One thing I've always wondered -- what's so uncomfortable it gives the
protesting men (it's almost always men) the fits? If your collar is
uncomfortable, it's too tight -- get a shirt that fits. I agree that
cummerbunds can be difficult, but if that's the case, get a vest (they look
better if you have a "cruise belly" too!)
Mark <-- thinking of buying a dinner jacket for Bermuda this year
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Barry Kutner
app...@aol.com (Appdad) wrote:
>lee...@campmor.com (Lee Schwartzberg) wrote -
><<I don't have to dress up for work, and maybe if I did, I'd feel
>differently about having to do it on a cruise ship. But when you cruise,
>dressing nicely adds to the overall festive mood of the experience. >>
>How does it do this? All it does is make me uncomfortable and detracts from the
>enjoyment of the food. I'm not sure at all how it adds to the overall festive
>mood. In fact, the word festive to me has a somewhat casual connotation to it.
Good question. Reminds me of the absurd article I read somewhere
saying that you should get dressed up when on an airplane because you
get treated better. Definitely what I want to do when sitting for
hours with my knees up against my chin :.)
Tom Crawford
If dressing up is that big a turn-off, check out the post on nude cruising —
no requirements there, I believe!
George Leppla
LaTa3 wrote in message
>I hate to see people insisting that more of the enjoyable traditions of
>cruising be scrapped as more and more middle America types become cruisers.
Well, La Dee Dah, LaTa3....
It may surprise you to know that it is the money from those "middle America
types" that is building and filling these ships. The next time you are on a
Carnival, Princess, Royal Caribbean, Celebrity or HAL cruise, you might want
to lower that stuck-up nose long enough to take a look at your fellow
passengers. This is not only the elite of society, but plain old, common,
everyday working people and if you take another look at this thread, you'll
find that most of them do not want to get dressed for a formal dinner.
You want proof? Why do most of the major lines offer "alternative dining"?
Why do cruise ships now have pizza parlors? Why does Celebrity even deliver
pizza to your cabin?
Amazing how people continue to cling to "traditions" that have no bearing on
the cruise industry. Modern, recreational "cruising" has little in common
with the trans-oceanic ship travel that spawned these traditions. Cruise
ships are not ocean liners, although some ocean liners are now being used as
cruise ships.
Even more amazing is how the romance of "tradition" blinds people to the
fact that the vast number of people who traveled on the great classic liners
of yore sailed in steerage which was somewhat less than elegant and
enjoyable. Funny how no one bemoans the loss of this tradition.
Middle Americans are filling these new ships and paying their way with their
middle-income salaries. If the cruise lines want to make a profit, they must
supply their customers with a product that they want and are comfortable
with. Rich, elegant, sophisticated people who like to dress formally for
dinner aren't buying the $899 Royal Caribbean or Carnival cruise.
George in PA <--- wants his customers to have fun on a vacation
George Leppla, MCC
http://www.cruisemaster.com
rec.travel.cruises Information Center
http://www.chesco.com/~hbtravel/rtcinfo.htm
mcknight
>supposed to be a relaxing vacation, what is the point?
That has always been a discouraging factor to me too, but I have heard
that the dress code really varies on different ships and different
cruises. I kinda figured that if there was only one formal night,
maybe I would just skip dinner that night and then hit the midnight
buffet or some such. Since I have never actually been on a cruise,
this is all 'supposin' on my part--will be interesting to hear from
others who have actually solved the problem, such as it is. I look
forward to reading their posts.
Sheri <mckn...@whidbey.net>
Becca
Wonder what their formal night would be like? Cummerbund and bow tie
only?
Becca <-----hoping they pack lots of sunscreen...!
Tom Crawford wrote:
>
> If dressing up is that big a turn-off, check out the post on nude cruising —
> no requirements there, I believe!
>
> Barry Kutner wrote in message <6khfo1$n...@enews4.newsguy.com>...
> >Greetings all - We (me, wife, 2 kids) have booked our first cruise on
> >the NCL Crown to Bermuda in August. For me, the biggest turn off of
Appdad
George in all his wisdom wrote -
<<Middle Americans are filling these new ships and paying their way with their
middle-income salaries. If the cruise lines want to make a profit, they must
supply their customers with a product that they want and are comfortable
with.>>
Bravo George!! You expressed my sentiments exactly. For a while there I felt
like I was the only one in the world who feels this way. We have been having a
heated debate on this exact point on the Cruises mailing list. My main point
is that I wish the cruise lines would provide more alternatives (in addition to
alternative dining locations) to formal dressup nights in the dining room up to
even providing a completely informal cruise or making one of the two sittings
informal all nights. If Carnival can dedicate an entire ship to non-smokers,
what is to keep them from dedicating an entire ship (such as the new Triumph)
to a completely informal cruise. I bet this type of cruise would be very
appealing to quite a few cruisers and I bet they would have no trouble at all
keeping the ship booked. Now before everyone has a hissy fit, I'm not saying
shorts and t-shirts in the dining room; but not requiring a coat and tie any
nights. And yes, I am a Joe Six-Pack type and proud of it, my preferred brand
is Coors.
Shezzy & Mo
Dear All,
I, myself, cringe at seeing the insidious grip <somewhat tic> of the
casual-mongers on our culture. Even "casual dress" has gone down hill
of late, IMO. Despite my young age, I still remember when people would
dress up to get on an airplane. Nowadays, going out to dinner, I've got
to "worry" if I'm too dressed up, compared to what people today consider
dinner attire. I even miss the efforts of my grandfather, who wore
shirt, tie, vest, jacket, and hat everywhere, including the beach! (And
did he look sharp!) I will admit that that is not realistic for
everyone's personality and demeanor; yet, I don't give up my expectation
of seeing people nicely dressed for dinner. I always figure, if the
table is dressed better than the diner, there's something amiss!
I've been raised to dress in accordance with and in respect to the
expense and the special meaning of the event. Just as you will feel
out-of-sorts because every night on your cruise will not be casual, I,
myself, will be pouting a bit because every night on my cruise will NOT
be formal. But, that won't stop me: I plan on "dressing to the nines"
on every single night. (On Carnival, even!) I happen to look smashing,
and feel smashing, when I'm glitzed up. And get a bloody thrill when
the male population show how well they clean up, as well. "Tux me,
baby."
It's always a case of different strokes, etc., but I sure hope that the
casual crusaders don't confiscate ALL of the formal nights. It could be
worse: even-steven could mean 3 nights of dressing up.
So, please, no campaigns for 100% casual cruises. Every vacation is
special to me, as they come none too frequently. I really appreciate
all efforts to grin and bear the TWO formal evenings, as I will respect
your desire to be casual on the other nights.
Thanks for inviting these comments.
Sincerely,
Sherry
Stephanie Johnston
Here Here ! ! I also remember the days when Mom would make us dress up for
the simplest of occasions. Going out to dinner in our family was always a
special event, and we were always dressed to the nines. In these clothes we
knew we had to be on our best behavior and Mom and Dad always got
complimented on it. When we would fly for our vacations, again we would
dress up. I remember once when I was 13 and flying alone I was dressed in a
skirt and sweater. The lady sitting next to me asked if I had children of
my own seeing that I was interacting so well with hers. I replied, no, I
just babysit alot. :) She thought I was in my 30's. I big boost for a 13
year old.
I can't wait to get all gussied up for the formal nights on the cruise. I
intend to treat myself to a fancy gown for one night and I will attempt to
squeeze into an old prom dress for the other. Hence, the new gym
membership. My husband is a little less enthusiastic, but is willing to
play along by bringing a suit. I'm still working on the tux.
They say you are never fully dressed without a smile and dressing to the
nines really puts confidence in my step, a smile on my face, and really
makes me feel like a million bucks. So, if we ever meet on a cruise Sherry,
we certainly will make a smashing foursome.
Stephanie <---another young one who still appreciates being overdressed for
most occasions
Shezzy & Mo wrote in message <356D82...@ibm.net>...
Shezzy & Mo
George Leppla (unelegantly, IMO) wrote:
> Rich, elegant, sophisticated people who like to dress formally for
> dinner aren't buying the $899 Royal Caribbean or Carnival cruise.
Ouch!
Gotta tell ya, you're wrong. I am elegant, and I am, too a refreshing
point, sophisticated; I may not be "rich" to some standards, but a
person's choice of ticket on a person's choice of Cruise Line has
NOTHING to do with a person's affinity for dressing up. My situation of
cruising "economically" is due to what I can afford. And it is
_because_ I cannot afford to do the wining-and-dining thing as a routine
in my everyday life, and thus not dress up routinely, that I _look
forward to_ dressing up on something that I am spending a good bit of
money on.
Geez, inadvertently,(or maybe not), you have surmised that a person's
desire to dress richly, dress elegantly, and dress sophisticatedly is
totally out of place on _whatever_ cruise they can afford. (If _that's_
not elitest, George, then...)
As I wrote in a post elsewhere, I was raised to dress in accordance with
and with respect to the expense of and the special nature of the event.
It used to be that flying was a special event, as I can still remember,
at my young age, when people dressed up to get on an airplane. To me,
cruising, at ANY price, is a special event, which I feel I am "honoring"
by dressing specially.
BTW, I really find invalid people's use of "most" as a basis for
argument. "Most cruisers" want this or that could be irresponsibly used
as an argument to support/defend any trait/desire/interest/prejudice.
Let's all express opinions based on our own personal interpretation of
things, and not pretend to be pollsters privy to what the "most" want.
EVEN if you are a TA, and "most" of your clients are "this way or that
way" that ONLY means that those are the clients you have attracted.
Let's not extrapolate our own experiences into a general analysis of
social culture.
The above is a personal expression of a personal opinion.
So glad to have shared. %^D
Sincerely,
Sherry
P.S. Your tag line is that you want your cruisers to have fun. I hope
you mean all of us.
Donald Blakley
Along these lines, I posted this many months ago but in view of recent
comments it seems as appropriate now as it did then.
From time to time the question arises about formal dining on cruise ships.
In the discussion there is always a fundamental point, that in my experience,
has been overlooked. It may come as a surprise to many, but dining
(as opposed to eating ) like sex, is a very sensual experience! And like
sex it should be approached slowly, and with grace and style. Every step
and every course being tasted, savoured and enjoyed ; rolled 'round the
palate as it were. And as with sex, it should be done elegantly and with
panache. During sexual activity on the one hand, undressing is
fundamental to the overall true and deep enjoyment of the experience.
In the case of dining (as opposed to eating) on the other hand, dressing
is fundamental to the overall true and deep enjoyment of that experience.
One should not for example wear a hat when dining (I have seen some who do,
obviously they haven't figured it out yet!) any more than one would wear a
hat when enjoying sex. (Unless grabbing just a quick snack!) Nor should
one wear a t-shirt and shorts when embarking upon that most sensual sexual
experience. Likewise one doesn't wear shorts and a t-shirt when enjoying
that other most sensual dining (as opposed to eating) experience.. In short,
it is simply a case of being appropiately dressed (or undressed) to enjoy ,
enrich and enhance the sensual experience which one is embarking upon.
It is as simple as that, one might almost say, like the natural order of
things. It has nothing whatsoever to do for example with the myth, as some
whould have it, that it is somehow related to whose vacation it is and
who is paying the freight! No mystery here.
Once again I hope this puts the formal dining experience on a cruise ship,
and anywhere else for that matter, in its proper perspective and context.
I can only add that if dressing up makes some men uncomfortable maybe
they had better look to their tailors, maybe they are not having their
clothes cut properly. Which reminds me of this story which may be
appropriate, of a man who suffered from terrible headaches and neck pain, and
was finally convinced by a number of speacilists afer many tests, that
castration no matter how drastic was the only avenue to relief. After
much soul searching he had the operation but then became almost suicidal in
his depression. His doctor suggested that to cheer himself up and make
himself feel like a man again he should go to a very good tailor and
buy himself a sharp new outfit. So off he went to a good tailor who
outfitted him very nicely until they came to the shirt. The tailor looked
at him and said "lets see a 15 1/2 collar"The customer said: "No, no.
wrong! I always wear a 14 1/2 inch shirt collar". The tailor said: "No no that
is way too small! I am never wrong about these things! Don't
you ever suffer from very severe headaches and neck pain?"
Cheers
DB
--
Shezzy & Mo
Dear Stephanie,
Stephanie Johnston wrote:
>
> Here Here ! ! I also remember the days when Mom would make us dress up for
> the simplest of occasions. Going out to dinner in our family was always a
> special event, and we were always dressed to the nines. In these clothes we
> knew we had to be on our best behavior and Mom and Dad always got
> complimented on it. When we would fly for our vacations, again we would
> dress up.
You must have grown up with me! Ahh, a long-lost sister! There's a
blackmail-ready picture of my sister and me in long flouncy dresses with
floppy flouncy hats about to board a plane with our father, bound for
Vancouver, B.C. We were the ones to watch! Even Christmas mornings
didn't start until we were out of our jammies and into "nice" play
clothes.
> I can't wait to get all gussied up for the formal nights on the cruise. I
> intend to treat myself to a fancy gown for one night and I will attempt to
> squeeze into an old prom dress for the other. Hence, the new gym
> membership. My husband is a little less enthusiastic, but is willing to
> play along by bringing a suit. I'm still working on the tux.
>
> They say you are never fully dressed without a smile and dressing to the
> nines really puts confidence in my step, a smile on my face, and really
> makes me feel like a million bucks. So, if we ever meet on a cruise Sherry,
> we certainly will make a smashing foursome.
Hey, girl, if you miss me and my sequins on one night, look for me in
the black stretch velvet the next, 'kay? And then let's compare control
tops! Hee, hee, hee. No chance of me getting hubby into a tux, but his
suits are all-out gorgeous! All the best.
> Stephanie <---another young one who still appreciates being overdressed for
> most occasions
Sincerely,
Sherry <---warmed by your company :-)
Appdad
I find this topic very interesting, in that it always seems to really evoke the
strongest emotions in people. Some folks love to dressup, while others (like
me) can't stand it. My opinion is I wear a coat and tie to work everyday; when
on vacation I like to relax and not have to mess with the dressup routine.
Someone mentioned how special cruising is and how dressing up made it all the
more special. To me a cruise isn't any more special than any other vacation I
take and in fact, I hope to take at least one a year from now on. Cost wise it
is even cheaper than other vacations we've taken like WDW. When we go to WDW we
certainly don't tote suits, etc. along; why should we when we go on a cruise,
just so as to go along with some archaic, out of date social scheme or worst
yet go thru some play acting role, dreaming that we're sailing on the great
liners of the past..
My main interest in this discussion though is the future of the cruise industry
and the changes that the lines are and will be making to suit the growing
cruise population. I have an idea, what is wrong with the suggestion that they
make one of the sittings purely informal all nights and the other like it is
now (or even more formal if you wish). Or for ships with multiple dining rooms
(such as Princess), why not have one formal, one informal (I'm not talking
about the alternative dining area here, but a regular dining room)? What are
the pro's/con's of this idea? Speaking of which - exactly how many dining rooms
does the Grand Princess have? What about RCI's new Eagle ships? Couldn't they
use this concept on those ships? Or is this too much like going back to some
type of class system?
You know when we get into these type of discussions, I sure wish we had some ng
members that work for some of the lines participating. I sure would love to
hear what the various lines have to say as far as what their market research
has told them. I bet they have really studied this thing to death.
Ken Smith
LaTa3 wrote:
> I hate to see people insisting that more of the enjoyable traditions of
> cruising be scrapped as more and more middle America types become cruisers. I
> was not brought up dining in fancy places, but I know how to dress for them now
> when I go, and I do so on the ships as well. The alternative dining options
> should be plenty to satisfy the t shirt crowd. don't ruin the lovely atmosphere
> in the dining room for everyone else by insisting that it all be super casual.
Bravo! Well said!
It amazes me how many people think that "having" to get dressed for dinner is some sort of
punishment ritual being forced upon them.
I view dressing for dinner as:
An elevated experience above our normal daily routine
A part of the shared experience
Reminiscent of times past
and most of all;
A sign of *respect* for both the tradition of fine dining and others in attendance
Personally, I would have no problem in wearing a tux for dinner every night of the cruise.
After all, cruises are supposed to be a radical departure from day to day living aren't they?
It certainly is for me.
I also have no problems with those that would prefer an alternate dining arena. Dress in you
tank tops and cut-offs, but as a previous poster said, you should not expect the dining
experience to be of the same caliber. In fact it cannot, as presentation is as much a part of
the culinary experience as preparation. Don't believe me? Picture the finest Prime Rib dinner
with all the trimmings along with a bottle of fine wine. Now picture it on a paper plate with
your wine served in a coffee cup. Great food, excellent wine, but somehow it just doesn't
seem the same. Whether you like it or not, we are all are part of the overall presentation.
Respectfully,
--Ken -- putting on his asbestos tuxedo now
Stephan in TO
First, smoking, then babies, then gays, now this one again.
Will someone *please* invoke Godwin's Law of Usenet, or will I have to
do it?
Stephan in TO <-----run awaaaaay, run awaaaaay
Charles
Donald Blakley wrote in message <6kk180$d...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>...
>From time to time the question arises about formal dining on cruise ships.
>In the discussion there is always a fundamental point, that in my
experience,
>has been overlooked. It may come as a surprise to many, but dining
>(as opposed to eating ) like sex, is a very sensual experience! And like
>sex it should be approached slowly, and with grace and style. Every step
>and every course being tasted, savoured and enjoyed ; rolled 'round the
>palate as it were. And as with sex, it should be done elegantly and with
>panache. During sexual activity on the one hand, undressing is
Don't have to be dressed in a tux or suit to enjoy dining on a cruise ship.
The dining experience on the rest of the nights, informal and casual is just
as good. However sensual dining it is not, this is excellent mass cooking,
but it is not the same as going out to a really fine restaurant. Informal,
which is jacket and tie is also dressing up. I would like to see the cruise
lines change the formal nights to informal nights. This would still be
dressing up 4 nights. I do not mind wearing a suit a couple of nights, and I
look pretty good in a suit, and will do it on a cruise while this remains
the "tradition". I think it is rather silly in this day and age to have
formal nights on vacation cruises.
Enid Y. Karr
Shezzy & Mo wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> So, please, no campaigns for 100% casual cruises. Every vacation is
> special to me, as they come none too frequently. I really appreciate
> all efforts to grin and bear the TWO formal evenings, as I will respect
> your desire to be casual on the other nights.
>
Oh gosh, I was really looking forward to the trip we're taking with my
folks this summer:
now I'm starting to dread it and wish we were going camping as usual.
I'm sure I don't have
the proper clothes and will be offending people left and right, I
suppose I will have to buy
some clothes for the trip just to get admitted into dinner, but even so,
I have no taste or
interest in them so I suppose people will be offended anyway. I'm not
sure I'm going to enjoy a
trip where I have to worry all the time what people are thinking about
what I'm wearing... it all
seems rather pointless to me. Do people actually SAY things to you if
your clothes aren't nice enough
for them, or just give you dirty looks, or what? Would you be offended
if I wore the same dress
to both formal dinners? My husband and daughters have some very nice
clothes... how about if I promise
to hide behind them at all times?
Seriously I didn't think dress was such a big issue anymore. I cruised
extensively as a child in the
60's when things were more formal on ships, and remember all the endless
dressing up (not fondly). The fun
times on ship, for me, were in a swimsuit by the pool. I haven't
progressed very far from that attitude
in the intervening 3 decades....
Enid
Appdad
Ken wrote -
<<I also have no problems with those that would prefer an alternate dining
arena. Dress in you tank tops and cut-offs, but as a previous poster said, you
should not expect the dining experience to be of the same caliber.>>
And why should we not expect this? We paid the same if not more than everyone
else on the cruise. The only difference is we don't wish to dressup in a monkey
suit to eat that food. Nothing else is different. And who said anything about
wearing tank tops, etc. for dinner? I would hope those wishing to bypass formal
dressup would still wear decent looking clothes (no shorts or t-shirts). It
doesn't cost anymore for the line to provide the same level of food and service
in a formal setting as it does an informal setting. Why not give the paying
passengers the choice. It doesn't take anything away from you folks that wish
to dressup.
Shezzy & Mo
Enid Y. Karr wrote:
> I cruised
> extensively as a child in the
> 60's when things were more formal on ships, and remember all the endless
> dressing up (not fondly). The fun
> times on ship, for me, were in a swimsuit by the pool. I haven't
> progressed very far from that attitude
> in the intervening 3 decades....
>
> Enid
Dear Enid,
Like I said, simply, "different strokes..." You don't have fond
memories of dressing up, okay; but I do - because I liked it, and I
still like it. What's the threat?
You may disagree, but, for me, dressing up has nothing to do with what
people think of _me_. I dress according to my mood: is it a jeans day,
a leggings day, or a lined-wool slacks day? Is it a T-shirt night, a
silk pajama night, or a nothing night. I like dressing up, I'm good at
it; I even consider it a form of creative expression when I'm really
"going to town." Ask anyone who knows me - whatever the occasion, I am
the least casually-dressed person they know; _and_ they are not
threatened by it.
My personal experience is that I don't feel uncomfortable in any type of
particular clothing. Thus, my experience will be different from your
own. Again, what is the threat your sarcasm alludes to?
I never implied I or anyone would be offended "left and right" at
anybody's choice to be casual. I never implied that one couldn't get
"admitted into dinner" due to being casual. I never said I wouldn't
accept you if you didn't dress up; in fact, in the quote you snipped
from my post, you highlight my sentiment that "I will respect your
desire to be casual." You are "reading" a whole lot in my post that has
nothing to do with the intention with which it was written. I apologize
if you felt my communication was unclear; beyond that, you're sarcastic
reaction may say more about you than it does about me, IMHO.
So if I request to keep TWO formal nights, you might be tolerant
instead of threatened. One is not better than the other, just
different; but equally valid.
Sincerely,
Sherry
Shezzy & Mo
Mark wrote:
>
> I know this is a matter of personal preference, and there are many who would
> prefer to wear casual clothes at all times, but I've got to put my vote in
> for formality.
>
> Most "fancy" restaurants on land have a dress code -- why shouldn't ships?
> (especially since there are now casual options so you don't have to starve -
> as it that's possible on a ship!).
>
> Why do ships have nice china, heavy silverware and linen napkins? They have
> the fine settings because it adds to the experience of the meal. Likewise,
> the sight of the diners dressed to the nines, lit by flattering nighttime
> lighting, adds to the tableau.
>
> be intimidating to someone who can't master "outside to inside" rule so let's
> just replace them all with those funny plastic spork things? ...and while
> we're at it, since we know that all that service by tuxedoed waiters is
> simply aping the obsolete class-based system of bygone ages, let's go to the
> galleys and pick up the plates ourselves.
Dear Mark,
I would say that "sharp" would not only describe your style of dressing,
but also your wit. You are much appreciated. And, heck, if I ever get
set loose on the QE2, watch out: It'll be Oscar night _every_ night!
Sincerely,
Sherry.
Stephan in TO
app...@aol.com (Appdad) wrote:
>I find this topic very interesting, in that it always seems to really evoke the
>strongest emotions in people.
What I find interesting is that _some_ who sit on the "Dressing Up is
Great" side of the fence automatically assume that those who do not
wish to dress up will automatically dress like they've just come in
from mowing the lawn.
I personally don't mind dressing up, and in fact, I'm even
comtemplating buying a tux. However, John, you'd still be welcome at
my table even if you weren't wearing a penguin suit.
Stephan in TO
remove the "x"s to e-mail me
Becca
Sorry Sherry, you did not catch this one point - and George is never
wrong, just ask him.
His words were, "RICH, elegant, sophisticated people..."
You said yourself that this didn't apply to you.
Maybe George feels like I do. When someone refers to formal nights as,
"the more enjoyable traditions of cruising", that is a value judgement
on their part. Although everyone is entitled to their opinion, no one
has no right to decide for me what is "enjoyable" and what isn't.
Personally, I don't need the ego boost from flouncy gowns.
I felt it was condescending for this change to be attributed to, "more
and more middle America types become cruisers". I found that statement
to be totally invalid. My father was one of those legendary oil rich
Texas millionaires, so I was raised with money, I was educated, and in
spite of that, I still hate dressing up on formal nights, I detest it.
They are part of the package, so I dress accordingly - never let it be
said that I don't go along with the natives. Some of us have to dress
formally on a routine basis, so it is no big thrill for us.
People on both sides of this issue come from every socio-economic
class. There are two types of people, those who enjoy it, and those who
don't. Our feelings on this topic have nothing to do with money,
education, honor, respect, culture, sophistication, or what part of
America we come from.
I grin and bear it, but try to remember this; you are not mandated to
dress casually, but we ARE mandated to dress formally. Don't we have
reason to grumble just a little?!
Becca <-----growing bored with this thread, already...
Becca
Come cruise with me, and let me dress you in a girdle, a push-up bra,
pantyhose, 4-inch spiked heels, a thigh-high dress (look out how you
bend over, now), makeup and your hair in an up-do. Careful how you move
your head, or it all comes tumbling down. Now how "elegant" do you
feel, hmmm? Try maneuvering for hours in this contraption.
Maybe formal attire is not part of YOUR normal daily routine, but
remember, that does not apply to all of us. What you consider "fun",
could be miserable for others.
Where did anyone say they wanted to dine in tank tops and cut-offs?
Becca <-----laughs at the arrogance and pomposity...
Ken Smith wrote:
>
> It amazes me how many people think that "having" to get dressed for dinner is some sort of
> punishment ritual being forced upon them.
>
> I view dressing for dinner as:
>
> An elevated experience above our normal daily routine
> A part of the shared experience
> Reminiscent of times past
>
> and most of all;
> A sign of *respect* for both the tradition of fine dining and others in attendance
>
> Personally, I would have no problem in wearing a tux for dinner every night of the cruise.
> After all, cruises are supposed to be a radical departure from day to day living aren't they?
> It certainly is for me.
>
> I also have no problems with those that would prefer an alternate dining arena. Dress in you
> tank tops and cut-offs, but as a previous poster said, you should not expect the dining
Enid Y. Karr
Perhaps we should take this to email, but my post was NOT sarcastic, I'm
sorry
if you read it that way. I am genuinely worried that we are in for a
bad
time on account of dress expectations. I honestly don't currently own
anything
that comes close to being acceptable. I have no problem with other
people dressing
up. I'm just worrying about how I will fit in (or not stick out like a
sore thumb)
when my usual mode of dressing is 'stuff on'. Like I said, I will try
to buy an appropriate
outfit or two, but with my lack of skill at that sort of thing will
probably fail abysmally.
Like I said, we generally camp. I can set up camp with the best of
them... but my family
'can't dress her up OR take her anywhere'.
Again, there was no sarcasm in my post... just fear. Sorry for the
misunderstanding. I don't
want to arrive at dinner and get thrown out or treated like I am pond
scum.
Enid
By the Book
The way I figure it, if the food dresses up for me (china, tablecloth,
silver, crystal) I'll dress up for the food. If it comes on paper plates
on a formica table, I'll wear shorts and a t-shirt.
For me, it feels appropriate, just as I dress for dinner in a nice
restaurant here in my town, but go to fast food joints in shorts and a
t-shirt.
Hopefully, cruise lines can accomodate everyone someday - maybe a formal
seating and an informal seating?
As for George's comment that "Rich, elegant, sophisticated people who like
to dress formally for dinner aren't buying the $899 Royal Caribbean or
Carnival cruise..."
(Shoot, George, I don't know about that - I suspect they just buy more of
them! ;)
Kate in NY<-----fun tablemates always welcomed, regardless of attire
Shezzy & Mo <smg...@ibm.net> wrote in article <356D8F...@ibm.net>...
George Leppla
Shezzy & Mo wrote in message <356D8F...@ibm.net>...
>George Leppla (unelegantly, IMO) wrote:
>> Rich, elegant, sophisticated people who like to dress formally for
>> dinner aren't buying the $899 Royal Caribbean or Carnival cruise.
>
>Ouch!
>
>Gotta tell ya, you're wrong. I am elegant, and I am, too a refreshing
>point, sophisticated; I may not be "rich" to some standards, but a
>person's choice of ticket on a person's choice of Cruise Line has
>NOTHING to do with a person's affinity for dressing up.
Really? Do you believe that someone who wants to go to a formal dinner every
night would choose Royal Caribbean or Carnival? Do you believe that someone
who hates dining formally would consider going on the QE 2? It has to do
with choices. More and more people are stating their preferrences for more
casual cruises. That is why the cruise product is changing. It is a
reflection of the wants and needs of the MAJORITY of the passengers. You
don't offer pizza and "alternative dining" on a $400 million ship unless the
majority of people WANT this.
>My situation of
>cruising "economically" is due to what I can afford. And it is
>_because_ I cannot afford to do the wining-and-dining thing as a routine
>in my everyday life, and thus not dress up routinely, that I _look
>forward to_ dressing up on something that I am spending a good bit of
>money on.
You can afford an "economical" cruise but you then want it to be something
that it isn't, a formal cruise. Sorry, but "economical" and "formal" do not
often fit in the same discription of a cruise. You are hoping for a style of
dining that is NOT in the mainstream of the majortiy of the cruise
passengers on an "econony" cruise.
>Geez, inadvertently,(or maybe not), you have surmised that a person's
>desire to dress richly, dress elegantly, and dress sophisticatedly is
>totally out of place on _whatever_ cruise they can afford. (If _that's_
>not elitest, George, then...)
That is not elitist, that is reality. If you want white glove service, 5
star dining, sterling silver, fine china, crystal and formal dress, you
don't go on a ship that will feed 2000+ people in three hours. You don't go
on an $899 cruise. You don't get to eat caviar and lobster on a McDonald's
budget no matter how much you may want to.
>BTW, I really find invalid people's use of "most" as a basis for
>argument. "Most cruisers" want this or that could be irresponsibly used
>as an argument to support/defend any trait/desire/interest/prejudice.
Really? If you were going to build a profitable cruise company, wouldn't you
design your ships and services around what "most" of the targeted customers
wanted and expected, or would you cater to only a minority of your
customers?
>Let's all express opinions based on our own personal interpretation of
>things, and not pretend to be pollsters privy to what the "most" want.
I sell cruises ranging from 2 night party runs on Premier to Trans-Atlantic
crossings on the QE 2. My customers come from almost every state and a few
foreign countries. I make a living by finding out what my customers want and
matching them with an appropriate cruise. In a sense, I am a pollster and if
I misinterpret the data that I collect from my customers and industry
sources I will be out of business. This is not some hypothetical argument
about what people expect on a cruise. This is the way I make a living.
BTW - If what "most" people want isn't important, why do the cruise lines
not have formal dining every night just like those grand old traditions?
>P.S. Your tag line is that you want your cruisers to have fun. I hope
>you mean all of us.
I certainly do. There is a cruise for everyone. However, many people go on a
cruise with false expectations. If you think that you will have a true
formal dining experience on a $899 cruise, you are in for disappointment. If
you know this ahead of time, you can be prepared to accept what the reality
is, rather than sit and bemoan what it isn't.
By the Book
Hi Enid,
Nobody will throw you out or make comments about your clothes - not to
worry. As long as you don't wear shorts in the dining room at dinner, you
can truly wear just about anything. The cruise line is only concerned with
the no-shorts thing, not the fashionable-ness of your clothes. As far as
"not owning anything that comes close to being acceptable," I'm not sure
what that means. If you really don't feel you have anything acceptable,
and you feel uncomfortable, it might be a good idea to pick up some stuff
before you go.
Don't laugh, but Wal-mart, the Kathy Lee collection in particular, has some
really smashing looking "resort wear" that is incredibly reasonable. I was
in buying suntan lotion and stuff last summer before our cruise and spotted
a whole selection of little skirts, tops, long flowy palazzo pants and
stuff and bought one of the little nautical design short skirts - at least
six women on that cruise asked me where I got it! It's all color
coordinated and matches, so you can't go wrong no matter how you put it
together!
Have a wonderful time, enjoy, and don't worry!
Kate in NY
Enid Y. Karr <ka...@world.std.com> wrote in article
<356DE3...@world.std.com>...
By the Book
Hahaha, funny post, girlfriend!
What a picture you paint, Becca! Bet you have the guys on here salivating!
(Of course, you could dress formally without so much um....constriction....
lower heels, longer dress, no girdle, and an au naturel bra....)
Kate in NY<----also finds a good tan (or a fake one from a bottle) on the
legs can substitute for panty hose.......
Becca <be...@hal-pc.org> wrote in article <356DB5...@hal-pc.org>...
Ermalee McCauley
Dear Enid
Dress up in your dressiest casual clothes, wear the same dress or
even a pants suit on formal nights and have hubby wear his most
comfortable jacket and a tie. You will not be evicted from the dining
room of any ship that we have sailed. Dressing up really doesn't have
to be "to the nines." On our February cruise on the Fantasy the Matre 'd
announced that "tomorrow night will be formal but you will be welcome in
this dining room in casual attire." And lots of people came that way;
just no shorts.
Ermalee <--nothing wrong with moderation???
Nina L
On my last cruise, a tablemate showed up in a sweat suit (and an old one
stained one at that). No one said a thing, although she did get a frown
from the head waiter.
The clothes worn on formal and semi-formal nights really vary from person to
person. I dress somewhere in the middle -- a nice cocktail dress for formal
nights, and pants with a dressy top for the semi-formal nights. If you're
going on Royal Caribbean, they have a country-western night. The last time
I went with RCI, you could get away with a country-western look in the
dining room on that night. Don't know if that still holds.
Enid Y. Karr wrote in message <356DE3...@world.std.com>...
dorothy fowler
I agree that to have to dress for dinner while on a cruise is a bother.
It is easier for women to carry something for dressing up for dinner
than men. I suggest you shop for a type of cruise that is strickly
casual.
George Leppla
Becca wrote in message <356DB5...@hal-pc.org>...
>Come cruise with me, and let me dress you in a girdle, a push-up bra,
>pantyhose, 4-inch spiked heels, a thigh-high dress (look out how you
>bend over, now), makeup and your hair in an up-do. Careful how you move
>your head, or it all comes tumbling down. Now how "elegant" do you
>feel, hmmm? Try maneuvering for hours in this contraption.
Hey, wait a minute!!!!
I AM going cruising with you in September. You gonna try to get me in this
outfit or are you gonna wear it?
If you are wearing it, I'm coming to dinner in the dining room and I'll even
wear a shirt!
If you think I'm wearing it... think again. I'll just steal some of those
pillow chocolates from the housekeeping cart when the cabin steward isn't
looking. Then I'll go get some pizza.
Hmmm, chocolate and pizza, women in push-up bras, short dresses and high
heels. Now you know why I love to cruise.
BTW - those of you who know what I look like know there is no way in hell
that I would ever wear a thigh high dress. My legs just aren't that good.
George in PA <---- three months and a few days until the Celebration
McCormick
Hi Enid,
We are friends with a couple who went a cruise with us last November. They
did not want to *dress-up* on formal nights and were very worried about how
they would be perceived in the dining room on those nights. He wore kaki
pants and a shirt with a collar and one night he did wear a tie. She wore
sundresses. No one said anything to them and we certainly did not care how
they dressed. We love their company!
So be yourself, don't worry and have fun.
Yvonne<-------taught at a young age that you can't judge a book by it's
cover.
--
Just hanging out til our next cruise,
The McCormick's @ dyl...@conknet.com
Enid Y. Karr wrote in message <356DC2...@world.std.com>...
>Seriously I didn't think dress was such a big issue anymore. I cruised
Tom & Linda
Sorry, meant High Heels and Ruffle Socks.
My apologies ...(looks like spell check didn't get that one, noticed it
as it was being sent)
--Tom
Tom & Linda wrote:
>
> Accompanied by High Hells and Ruffle Socks?
>
> --Tom
>
> Becca wrote:
> >
> > Wonder what their formal night would be like? Cummerbund and bow tie
> > only?
> >
> > Becca <-----hoping they pack lots of sunscreen...!
> >
> > Tom Crawford wrote:
> > >
> > > If dressing up is that big a turn-off, check out the post on nude cruising —
> > > no requirements there, I believe!
> > >
> > > Barry Kutner wrote in message <6khfo1$n...@enews4.newsguy.com>...
> > > >Greetings all - We (me, wife, 2 kids) have booked our first cruise on
> > > >the NCL Crown to Bermuda in August. For me, the biggest turn off of
> > > >the cruise is the need to get dressed up for dinner
Becca
Pardon me, LaTa3, but that promise was from Fredikins, not George.
Becca <-----wondering when people will start acting like adults
in this newsgroup...
LaTa3 wrote:
>
> >Well, La Dee Dah, LaTa3....
>
> Well I guess you can't keep your word well can you GeorgiePorgie???
>
> >It may surprise you to know that it is the money from those "middle
> America>types" that is building and filling these ships. The next time you are
> on a>Carnival, Princess, Royal Caribbean, Celebrity or HAL cruise, you might
> want>to lower that stuck-up nose long enough to take a look at your
> fellow>passengers. This is not only the elite of society, but plain old,
> common,>everyday working people and if you take another look at this thread,
> you'll
> >find that most of them do not want to get dressed for a formal dinner.
> Yeah, George and if you read that entire post you would see that I am not some
> rich elitist. Also I don't sail on Carnival or Royal Caribbean or Celebrity.
> And I do not have a stuck up nose and you are very rude to put your remarks
> that way. I happen to be a working person too, and I also know how to dress
> appropriately. There are plenty of options for those who cannot or will not
> abandon the t shirts for a couple hours per day. That is why there are your
> pizza parlors and other alternative dining options---they are options for that
> segment, as well as for others who may want to not eat a huge formal meal every
> night on a cruise. Options--not replacement for the lovely dining room meals
> on formal informal and casual elegant nights as well as island casual nights,
> CW nights, etc.
>
> How do you know that rich, elegant , sophisticaated people are NOT buying the
> $899 RC or CC cruise?? Maybe they are just not buying it from you!!!!
> Sorry to anyone that the tone of this might offend---George posted a rude
> response and I do return like with like!!!!!
>
> >
> >You want proof? Why do most of the major lines offer "alternative dining"?
> >Why do cruise ships now have pizza parlors? Why does Celebrity even deliver
> >pizza to your cabin?
> >
> >Amazing how people continue to cling to "traditions" that have no bearing
> on>the cruise industry. Modern, recreational "cruising" has little in
> common>with the trans-oceanic ship travel that spawned these traditions.
> Cruise>ships are not ocean liners, although some ocean liners are now being
> used as>cruise ships.>
> >Even more amazing is how the romance of "tradition" blinds people to the
> >fact that the vast number of people who traveled on the great classic liners
> >of yore sailed in steerage which was somewhat less than elegant and
> >enjoyable. Funny how no one bemoans the loss of this tradition.
>
> nOW HERE is a great idea!! Bring back steerage quarters and dining areas for
> those who want to wear the t shirts and shorts to dinner!!!!
Sandy
In article <6kjr6e$d...@enews3.newsguy.com>, "George says...
>
>
>LaTa3 wrote in message
>>I hate to see people insisting that more of the enjoyable traditions of
>
>Well, La Dee Dah, LaTa3....
>
>types" that is building and filling these ships. The next time you are on a
>Carnival, Princess, Royal Caribbean, Celebrity or HAL cruise, you might want
>to lower that stuck-up nose long enough to take a look at your fellow
>passengers. This is not only the elite of society, but plain old, common,
>everyday working people and if you take another look at this thread, you'll
>find that most of them do not want to get dressed for a formal dinner.
>
>Why do cruise ships now have pizza parlors? Why does Celebrity even deliver
>pizza to your cabin?
>
>Amazing how people continue to cling to "traditions" that have no bearing on
>the cruise industry. Modern, recreational "cruising" has little in common
>with the trans-oceanic ship travel that spawned these traditions. Cruise
>ships are not ocean liners, although some ocean liners are now being used as
>cruise ships.
>
>Even more amazing is how the romance of "tradition" blinds people to the
>fact that the vast number of people who traveled on the great classic liners
>of yore sailed in steerage which was somewhat less than elegant and
>enjoyable. Funny how no one bemoans the loss of this tradition.
>
>middle-income salaries. If the cruise lines want to make a profit, they must
>supply their customers with a product that they want and are comfortable
>with. Rich, elegant, sophisticated people who like to dress formally for
>dinner aren't buying the $899 Royal Caribbean or Carnival cruise.
>
>
>George Leppla, MCC
>http://www.cruisemaster.com
>rec.travel.cruises Information Center
>http://www.chesco.com/~hbtravel/rtcinfo.htm
>
>
>dressing up. I really think when you dress up you feel festive. I've never
>looked down on cruisers who enjoy being casual. Everyone has different
>preferences. I have seen it all in the dining room,and no one has been booted
>out for not being in proper attire. I am one of those $899.00 RCI cruisers also.
If you men realized how great you look in tuxs you wouldn't complain. I always
notice you on cruises!! You look wonderful..
------------------
Posted via public news server at http://pubnews.zippo.com
Ermalee McCauley
Another unwritten rule of this newsgroup. We just don't ever refer to
Fred as "that other guy Fred". We think Fred is pretty special.
Ermalee <-----thinking the dressing up subject is boring
Ermalee McCauley
And Fred has kept his promise.
Ermalee <---thinking a person should be limited to no more than ten
responses in a day.....yawn! :-)
Becca wrote:
>
> Pardon me, LaTa3, but that promise was from Fredikins, not George.
>
> Becca <-----wondering when people will start acting like adults
> in this newsgroup...
>
> LaTa3 wrote:
> >
> > >Well, La Dee Dah, LaTa3....
> >
Peter Bugda
Simply put: Formal is predictable
Casual is not !
Cruise lines....very conscious of the "Bottom Line" wouldn`t have formal
nights if the people didn`t want it.
Peter
que sera sera
Becca
This has been explained to you in terms as simple as I can manage. At
this point, I can only assume that you are not interested in having an
intelligent discussion.
Why do some of you feel the need to get so defensive? We do not all
have to agree, we can have a difference of opinion, and that should be
okay. Why take this so personally? No one is telling you that you can
not wear your little party dresses and pretend like you are Cinderella
at the ball. Go, have fun, wear sequined underwear for all I care.
Enjoy yourself. It is your cruise, you paid the price of admission, so
feel free to dress formal on every night, if you want to. Wear Bill
Blass for breakfast and Ralph Lauren for lunch, I really don't care what
you wear, so why are you so fixated on what *I* am wearing?!?
Becca <-----slipping away to do something more fun that rtc...
LaTa3 wrote:
>
> Youre pardoned :-)
> and I am wondering too.
> Adults know how to dress for dinner.---appropriately for the place where they
> are dining.
LaTa3
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Dinner and dressing up
>From: Shezzy & Mo <smg...@ibm.net>
>Date: Thu, May 28, 1998 12:48 EDT
>Message-id: <356D95...@ibm.net>
>
>Dear Stephanie,
>
>Stephanie Johnston wrote:
>>
>> Here Here ! ! I also remember the days when Mom would make us dress up for
>> the simplest of occasions. Going out to dinner in our family was always a
>> special event, and we were always dressed to the nines. In these clothes
>we
>> knew we had to be on our best behavior and Mom and Dad always got
>> complimented on it. When we would fly for our vacations, again we would
>> dress up.
>
>You must have grown up with me! Ahh, a long-lost sister! There's a
>blackmail-ready picture of my sister and me in long flouncy dresses with
>floppy flouncy hats about to board a plane with our father, bound for
>Vancouver, B.C. We were the ones to watch! Even Christmas mornings
>didn't start until we were out of our jammies and into "nice" play
>clothes.
>
>> I can't wait to get all gussied up for the formal nights on the cruise. I
>> intend to treat myself to a fancy gown for one night and I will attempt to
>> squeeze into an old prom dress for the other. Hence, the new gym
>> membership. My husband is a little less enthusiastic, but is willing to
>> play along by bringing a suit. I'm still working on the tux.
>>
>> They say you are never fully dressed without a smile and dressing to the
>> nines really puts confidence in my step, a smile on my face, and really
>> makes me feel like a million bucks. So, if we ever meet on a cruise
>Sherry,
>> we certainly will make a smashing foursome.
>
>Hey, girl, if you miss me and my sequins on one night, look for me in
>the black stretch velvet the next, 'kay? And then let's compare control
>tops! Hee, hee, hee. No chance of me getting hubby into a tux, but his
>suits are all-out gorgeous! All the best.
>
>> Stephanie <---another young one who still appreciates being overdressed for
>> most occasions
>
>Sincerely,
>Sherry <---warmed by your company :-)
></PRE></HTML>
Hey Sherry and Stephanie, lets go on a cruise together and we can all show them
how easy and great it is to dress up for dinner!!
Las Tres Amigas "I know we're almost there cause we had just enough fuel to get
there & we're almost out of fuel."
LaTa3
>Message-id: <356D82...@ibm.net>
>
>Dear All,
>
>I, myself, cringe at seeing the insidious grip <somewhat tic> of the
>casual-mongers on our culture. Even "casual dress" has gone down hill
>of late, IMO. Despite my young age, I still remember when people would
>dress up to get on an airplane. Nowadays, going out to dinner, I've got
>to "worry" if I'm too dressed up, compared to what people today consider
>dinner attire. I even miss the efforts of my grandfather, who wore
>shirt, tie, vest, jacket, and hat everywhere, including the beach! (And
>did he look sharp!) I will admit that that is not realistic for
>everyone's personality and demeanor; yet, I don't give up my expectation
>of seeing people nicely dressed for dinner. I always figure, if the
>table is dressed better than the diner, there's something amiss!
>
>I've been raised to dress in accordance with and in respect to the
>expense and the special meaning of the event. Just as you will feel
>out-of-sorts because every night on your cruise will not be casual, I,
>myself, will be pouting a bit because every night on my cruise will NOT
>be formal. But, that won't stop me: I plan on "dressing to the nines"
>on every single night. (On Carnival, even!) I happen to look smashing,
>and feel smashing, when I'm glitzed up. And get a bloody thrill when
>the male population show how well they clean up, as well. "Tux me,
>baby."
>
>It's always a case of different strokes, etc., but I sure hope that the
>casual crusaders don't confiscate ALL of the formal nights. It could be
>worse: even-steven could mean 3 nights of dressing up.
>
>So, please, no campaigns for 100% casual cruises. Every vacation is
>special to me, as they come none too frequently. I really appreciate
>all efforts to grin and bear the TWO formal evenings, as I will respect
>your desire to be casual on the other nights.
>
>
>Sincerely,
>Sherry
></PRE></HTML>
Fantastic POST, Sherry!!!
Some of these "casual crusaders" as you called them are just looking for an
arguement. I figure that if they have enough brains to earn the $$ for a
cruise, then they should be able to read the brochures and understand the
standards.
They have plenty of options for their vacation:
Eat in the room via room service
Go on a ship with a casual alternative (be aware that the alternative dining on
some ships is NOT casual, it is more formal than the main dining room...)
Skip dinner, eat a big lunch.
Go to a casual resort instead of on a cruise ship
Go on a Windjammer cruise
But these options are not good enough for them, they want everyone to parade
into the dining room in their shorts and tee shirts, to sit down at the lovely
table with crystal and fine silver, with the signature china and two hovering
servers-----yuck!! Go to Mcdonalds in your old t shirt.
LaTa3
>HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Dinner and dressing up
>I'm sure I don't have
>the proper clothes and will be offending people left and right, I
>suppose I will have to buy
>some clothes for the trip just to get admitted into dinner, but even so,
>I have no taste or
>interest in them so I suppose people will be offended anyway. I'm not
>sure I'm going to enjoy a
>trip where I have to worry all the time what people are thinking about
>what I'm wearing... it all
>seems rather pointless to me. Do people actually SAY things to you if
>your clothes aren't nice enough
>for them, or just give you dirty looks, or what? Would you be offended
>if I wore the same dress
>to both formal dinners? My husband and daughters have some very nice
>clothes... how about if I promise
>to hide behind them at all times?
>
What's the problem, you say you have the dress, the hubby and kids have nice
clothes so you are set!! You could wear the same formal outfit 4 or more times
if you want. The point is you would not be insisting that the dining room
standards be lowered so that people can wear t shirts and shorts to dinner!!
LaTa3
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Dinner and dressing up
>Date: Thu, May 28, 1998 13:07 EDT
>Message-id: <6kk5jt$k24$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>
>I know this is a matter of personal preference, and there are many who would
>prefer to wear casual clothes at all times, but I've got to put my vote in
>for formality.
>
>Most "fancy" restaurants on land have a dress code -- why shouldn't ships?
>(especially since there are now casual options so you don't have to starve -
>as it that's possible on a ship!).
>
>Why do ships have nice china, heavy silverware and linen napkins? They have
>the fine settings because it adds to the experience of the meal. Likewise,
>the sight of the diners dressed to the nines, lit by flattering nighttime
>lighting, adds to the tableau.
>
>each had 5 different accessories for our tuxes (we miscalculated). We
>received compliments by many other diners in the Queens Grill -- it was fun
>and flattering (being complimented on your formal dress in the QG is high
>praise indeed!).
>
>What does wearing a suit to work have to do with dressing up for dinner?
>Yes, I do dress in jacket and tie for work, and I wear neither a tux nor
>sportcoat to a pool party. Different occasions call for different clothes.
>
>By the way, why do we have all those different pieces of silverware? They can
>be intimidating to someone who can't master "outside to inside" rule so let's
>just replace them all with those funny plastic spork things? ...and while
>we're at it, since we know that all that service by tuxedoed waiters is
>simply aping the obsolete class-based system of bygone ages, let's go to the
>galleys and pick up the plates ourselves.
>
>protesting men (it's almost always men) the fits? If your collar is
>uncomfortable, it's too tight -- get a shirt that fits. I agree that
>cummerbunds can be difficult, but if that's the case, get a vest (they look
>better if you have a "cruise belly" too!)
>
>Mark <-- thinking of buying a dinner jacket for Bermuda this year
>
>
Hope you guys end up at our table sometime. We ladies cruising alone would
enjoy the view!! :-)
LaTa3
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Dinner and dressing up
>Date: Thu, May 28, 1998 18:21 EDT
> Like I said, I will try
>to buy an appropriate
>outfit or two, but with my lack of skill at that sort of thing will
>probably fail abysmally.
>Like I said, we generally camp.
Enid, all you need is one long black skirt, or palazzo pants if you prefer--add
two different tops, could be as simple as a silk shirt--they have washable silk
fabrics now that look really nice. Or try something glittery and sequined if
you want, but it is not necessary. What is so difficult about a pair of evening
pants and a silk blouse. Don't like that idea? Have you gone to a wedding or a
funeral in the past few years? Take those dresses, you will do just fine!!!!
LaTa3
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Dinner and dressing up
>article I read somewhere
>saying that you should get dressed up when on an airplane because you
>get treated better. Definitely what I want to do when sitting for
>hours with my knees up against my chin :.)
>Barry
but you know, if you get to use any of those great low fares that come from
being related to or traveling with an airline employee you have to dress up for
the flight or you don't get the seat.
LaTa3
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Dinner and dressing up
>However sensual dining it is not, this is excellent mass cooking,
>but it is not the same as going out to a really fine restaurant.
I have often had specialties prepared at the table (pastas and special
desserts) No, it is not all mass cooking.
LaTa3
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Dinner and dressing up
>Date: Thu, May 28, 1998 11:15 EDT
>George in all his wisdom wrote -
>
><<Middle Americans are filling <snipped the snippy stuff>
>. Now before everyone has a hissy fit, I'm not saying
>shorts and t-shirts in the dining room; but not requiring a coat and tie any
>nights. And yes, I am a Joe Six-Pack type and proud of it, my preferred brand
>is Coors.
>
>John
>
>-----
Hello John!! No hissy fits here, but watch out George may just la de dah
himself into one again soon!! You are NOT saying t shirt and shorts in the
dining room, that shows intelligence and the ability to know how to dress for
dinner--all you are saying is no true "formal" nights. I believe that this is
already addressed by the lines when they offer alternatives. You could eat in
the dining room on the nights when you don't have to wear a coat and tie--such
as the island casual nights; and go to alternatives on the formal nights. Does
not sound like any problem at all.
BTW--mine is Coors Lite.
LaTa3
>Well, La Dee Dah, LaTa3....
Well I guess you can't keep your word well can you GeorgiePorgie???
>It may surprise you to know that it is the money from those "middle
America>types" that is building and filling these ships. The next time you are
on a>Carnival, Princess, Royal Caribbean, Celebrity or HAL cruise, you might
want>to lower that stuck-up nose long enough to take a look at your
fellow>passengers. This is not only the elite of society, but plain old,
common,>everyday working people and if you take another look at this thread,
you'll
>find that most of them do not want to get dressed for a formal dinner.
Yeah, George and if you read that entire post you would see that I am not some
rich elitist. Also I don't sail on Carnival or Royal Caribbean or Celebrity.
And I do not have a stuck up nose and you are very rude to put your remarks
that way. I happen to be a working person too, and I also know how to dress
appropriately. There are plenty of options for those who cannot or will not
abandon the t shirts for a couple hours per day. That is why there are your
pizza parlors and other alternative dining options---they are options for that
segment, as well as for others who may want to not eat a huge formal meal every
night on a cruise. Options--not replacement for the lovely dining room meals
on formal informal and casual elegant nights as well as island casual nights,
CW nights, etc.
How do you know that rich, elegant , sophisticaated people are NOT buying the
$899 RC or CC cruise?? Maybe they are just not buying it from you!!!!
Sorry to anyone that the tone of this might offend---George posted a rude
response and I do return like with like!!!!!
>
>You want proof? Why do most of the major lines offer "alternative dining"?
>Why do cruise ships now have pizza parlors? Why does Celebrity even deliver
>pizza to your cabin?
>
>Amazing how people continue to cling to "traditions" that have no bearing
on>the cruise industry. Modern, recreational "cruising" has little in
common>with the trans-oceanic ship travel that spawned these traditions.
Cruise>ships are not ocean liners, although some ocean liners are now being
used as>cruise ships.>
>Even more amazing is how the romance of "tradition" blinds people to the
>fact that the vast number of people who traveled on the great classic liners
>of yore sailed in steerage which was somewhat less than elegant and
>enjoyable. Funny how no one bemoans the loss of this tradition.
nOW HERE is a great idea!! Bring back steerage quarters and dining areas for
those who want to wear the t shirts and shorts to dinner!!!!
LaTa3
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Dinner and dressing up
>Date: Thu, May 28, 1998 12:22 EDT
>Message-id: <356D8F...@ibm.net>
>
>George Leppla (unelegantly, IMO) wrote:
>> dinner aren't buying the $899 Royal Caribbean or Carnival cruise.
>
>
>Gotta tell ya, you're wrong. I am elegant, and I am, too a refreshing
>point, sophisticated; I may not be "rich" to some standards, but a
>person's choice of ticket on a person's choice of Cruise Line has
>cruising "economically" is due to what I can afford. And it is
>_because_ I cannot afford to do the wining-and-dining thing as a routine
>in my everyday life, and thus not dress up routinely, that I _look
>forward to_ dressing up on something that I am spending a good bit of
>money on.
>
>desire to dress richly, dress elegantly, and dress sophisticatedly is
>totally out of place on _whatever_ cruise they can afford. (If _that's_
>not elitest, George, then...)
>
>and with respect to the expense of and the special nature of the event.
>It used to be that flying was a special event, as I can still remember,
>at my young age, when people dressed up to get on an airplane. To me,
>cruising, at ANY price, is a special event, which I feel I am "honoring"
>by dressing specially.
>
>argument. "Most cruisers" want this or that could be irresponsibly used
>as an argument to support/defend any trait/desire/interest/prejudice.
>things, and not pretend to be pollsters privy to what the "most" want.
>way" that ONLY means that those are the clients you have attracted.
>Let's not extrapolate our own experiences into a general analysis of
>social culture.
>
>The above is a personal expression of a personal opinion.
>So glad to have shared. %^D
>
>Sincerely,
>Sherry
>
>you mean all of us.
Sherry, I was ready to respond with a big ITA after I read your first
paragraph. then as I continued to read the rest of your post, I have to say
ITA<ITA<ITA<ITA<ITA and ICAM!!!!!!!!!!!! You use words well.
LaTa3
> My father was one of those legendary oil rich
>Texas millionaires, so I was raised with money, I was educated, and in>spite
of that, I still hate dressing up on formal nights, I detest it. >They are part
of the package, so I dress accordingly - never let it be>said that I don't go
along with the natives. Some of us have to dress>formally on a routine basis,
so it is no big thrill for us. >
>People on both sides of this issue come from every socio-economic>class.
There are two types of people, those who enjoy it, and those who>don't. Our
feelings on this topic have nothing to do with money,>education, honor,
respect, culture, sophistication, or what part of>America we come from.
>
>
the point is Becca, you have every right to not enjoy dresssing up nicely for
dinner, but you still do it when it is proper, and you know how to do it. We
who have cruised know that there is plenty of leeway in those dress code
suggestions, but that does not mean t shirts and shorts to dinner--I don't
think your Texas Daddy would have had any problem with that difference, would
he? Now if he was throwing a big ole bbq on the back lawns, that would call for
a different standard of dress, right?
Hope I don't get flamed too badly on this response since George has targeted me
already and I have been warned never to disagree even a little with Becca or
tons of flames will be thrown!! Hope those warnings were exaggerated!!!!!!
LaTa3
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Dinner and dressing up
>Date: Thu, May 28, 1998 12:55 EDT
>Message-id: <356D97...@klstraining.com>
>
>LaTa3 wrote:
>
>> I hate to see people insisting that more of the enjoyable traditions of
>> cruising be scrapped as more and more middle America types become cruisers.
>> was not brought up dining in fancy places, but I know how to dress for them
>now
>> when I go, and I do so on the ships as well. The alternative dining options
>> should be plenty to satisfy the t shirt crowd. don't ruin the lovely
>atmosphere
>> in the dining room for everyone else by insisting that it all be super
>casual.
>
>
>Bravo! Well said!
Ken, you are a gentleman who would be most welcome at our dinner table!! Great
post.
LaTa3
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Dinner and dressing up
>That is not elitist, that is reality. If you want white glove service, 5
>star dining, sterling silver, fine china, crystal and formal dress, you
>don't go on a ship that will feed 2000+ people in three hours. You don't go
>on an $899 cruise. You don't get to eat caviar and lobster on a McDonald's
>budget no matter how much you may want to.
I also don't cruise on 2000+ pax ships, but have had the crystal, china, etc.
plus the lobster and caviar on several Regal cruises that cost less than $899.
and I dressed properly as did the others on that "economy" cruise---a few who
really did not choose to ate at the alternative site on formal nights, and
dressed down a bit, but within the limitations of the guidelines for the other
nights in the dining room.
LaTa3
Pardon me, LaTa3, but that promise was from Fredikins, not George.
Becca <-----wondering when people will start acting like adults
in this newsgroup...
LaTa3
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Dinner and dressing up
Mea Culpa George for confusing you with that other guy Fred!1 But the post was
still rude IMO.
Dan Wenz
Without adding to this thread further, and without stating what "side" of
it I'm on, why don't (some of) you learn how to edit your replies before
answering the message you're replying to? In addition, many of the
responses to others' comments seem to be of an extremely tunnel-minded,
intolerant nature to me - there are too many of us on this planet who seem
unable to accept the fact that we don't all have the same ideas, or that
our thoughts are the only ones that correctly apply to a given situation.
Have a good cruise, and who knows, we may meet some of you during our
Alaska cruise next week :-)
Becca
So... let's talk about Alaska, Dan.
Details, we want details. Inside passage, or outside? Have you been to
Alaska, before? Been on a cruise before? What cruise line will you be
on?
Becca <-----thinks Dan has the right idea...
Dan Wenz
In article <356EBF...@hal-pc.org>, Becca <be...@hal-pc.org> wrote:
>So... let's talk about Alaska, Dan.
>
>Details, we want details. Inside passage, or outside? Have you been to
>Alaska, before? Been on a cruise before? What cruise line will you be
>on?
>
>Becca <-----thinks Dan has the right idea...
>
Princess June 2-16, inside passage with land tour. Never been to Alaska,
did cruise to the Bahamas with the Crown Princess, been on a cruise during
a tour through Greece and Turkey, and on a 5-day cruise up the Yangtse
(sp?) during a 3 week tour through China. The last was a tour to remember,
which I'd happily repeat - those paintings I'd seen in the past, the ones
with the tall, popsicle (I have a limited vocabulary) - shaped mountains
rising through the mist, painted by Chinese artists - they're REAL, and I
have the videos to prove it! The last tour was arranged via Maryland
Public TV, and for around $3500 including air-fare, a three-week
cruise/tour, first-class hotels (2-3 class is OK with us), and 5 flights
within China + all meals except while in Hong Kong 2 days, was a steal.
The tour itself was run by the Chinese Gov't. Food was fine with me,
somewhat greasy though, and I ate everything, though my wife would eat no
meat that she couldn't identify (we saw NO birds, cats, or dogs not on a
leash in Beijing ;-> ):-)
Stephan in TO
As the Captain guided the mv Perfecto to her next port, la...@aol.com
(LaTa3) while forgetting how to snip, wrote:
>Some of these "casual crusaders" as you called them are just looking for an
>arguement.
Pot, Kettle, the colour black.
[blah, blah, blah, snipped]
>But these options are not good enough for them, they want everyone to parade
>into the dining room in their shorts and tee shirts, to sit down at the lovely
>table with crystal and fine silver, with the signature china and two hovering
>servers-----yuck!! Go to Mcdonalds in your old t shirt.
You continually miss the point. You are so busy responding to every
post in this thread that it makes me wonder if you actually read any
of them.
You continue to harp on this shorts and tee-shirts thing. I suggest
you see a doctor and ask him for the cure to Cranial-Rectum Syndrome.
If people can have a totally smoke-free ship, and some people want a
totally child-free ship, why, oh, why can't there be a ship in a fleet
that *will* only have casual nights? Then, if you don't want to have
your atmosphere ruined, simply don't book that ship!
Stephan in TO <----can't believe I'm responding.
Lee Schwartzberg
In article <199805280110...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
app...@aol.com (Appdad) wrote:
> lee...@campmor.com (Lee Schwartzberg) wrote -
>
> <<I don't have to dress up for work, and maybe if I did, I'd feel
> differently about having to do it on a cruise ship. But when you cruise,
> dressing nicely adds to the overall festive mood of the experience. >>
>
> How does it do this? All it does is make me uncomfortable and detracts
from the
> enjoyment of the food. I'm not sure at all how it adds to the overall festive
> mood. In fact, the word festive to me has a somewhat casual connotation
to it.
>
> John
For me, dressing up makes an occasion more festive. Maybe not for you. So
be it. Bu now, I think you would have recognized that people express their
own opinions on this newsgroup. If dressing up doesn't put you into a more
"festive" mindset, then so be it, but it does for me, and I don't
appreciate being questioned or doubted about my personal experience. I'm
just offering input - take it or leave it!
>
> -----
> John Davis app...@aol.com
Lee Schwartzberg
In article <6kjr6e$d...@enews3.newsguy.com>, "George Leppla"
<hbtr...@chesco.com> wrote:
This is not only the elite of society, but plain old, common,
> everyday working people and if you take another look at this thread, you'll
> find that most of them do not want to get dressed for a formal dinner.
Gee, I don't see that at all. I read tons of posts from folks who love
doing the formal thing! And, if people wanted to get away with attire as
informal as possible, but still get to eat in the dining room, the message
didn't make it to the passengers on my last RCL cruise. Tons of tuxes and
formal (long, sparkly, silky, satiny, etc) gowns when suits and dresses
would have worked just fine. Loked to me like all those middle America
folks (me included) were really into the dressing up thing!
>
> You want proof? Why do most of the major lines offer "alternative dining"?
> Why do cruise ships now have pizza parlors? Why does Celebrity even deliver
> pizza to your cabin?
If what you're looking for is pizza and burgers, why cruise? The dining
experience is one of, if not, THE major draw to cruising, for me, and I'm
sure alot of other passengers. But, I guess these same people travel by
land and eat at chains they have back home - I mean, what's the point?
>
> Amazing how people continue to cling to "traditions" that have no bearing on
> the cruise industry. Modern, recreational "cruising" has little in common
> with the trans-oceanic ship travel that spawned these traditions. Cruise
> ships are not ocean liners, although some ocean liners are now being used as
> cruise ships.
>
> Even more amazing is how the romance of "tradition" blinds people to the
> fact that the vast number of people who traveled on the great classic liners
> of yore sailed in steerage which was somewhat less than elegant and
> enjoyable. Funny how no one bemoans the loss of this tradition.
But isn't it nice that we all get to participate in the grandeur of
cruising, and that it's become affordable for most and not the private
doamin of the John J Astors or others? We can all enjoy all the pomp and
circumstance without the class differential, and I think that's great. Why
not all of us come up to what was once the preferred class, rather than us
all sinking to steerage?
>
> Middle Americans are filling these new ships and paying their way with their
> middle-income salaries. If the cruise lines want to make a profit, they must
> supply their customers with a product that they want and are comfortable
> with. Rich, elegant, sophisticated people who like to dress formally for
> dinner aren't buying the $899 Royal Caribbean or Carnival cruise.
Yeah, they are too. Rich, elegant and sophisticated doesn't necessarily
mean snobbish. I'm sure that there will be those who would snub such
common lines as RCL and Carnival, but I'm betting that lots of them
richies are cruising right next to the rest of us.
Lee
lee_lindquist
In article <6kjr6e$d...@enews3.newsguy.com>, "George says...
>everyday working people and if you take another look at this thread, you'll
>find that most of them do not want to get dressed for a formal dinner.
>
>You want proof? Why do most of the major lines offer "alternative dining"?
>Why do cruise ships now have pizza parlors? Why does Celebrity even deliver
>pizza to your cabin?
>
I don't know that offering alternative dining 'proves' that most
people don't want to dress up, any more than putting an ice skating
rink on a ship 'proves' that everone likes hockey.
I see it more as trying to offer something for everyone. The cruise
lines already fight among themselves for repeat passengers. They have
to offer 'something for everyone' to get the other 90% of the population
to try a cruise.
I see alternative dining as removing one more barrier to someone seleting
a cruise vacation; just as carnival's bail-out guarantee removed the
"if I don't like it, I'm stuck on the boat for 7-days" barrier.
I've only been on one cruise with alternative dining -- the spendour
of the seas. I wandered through most night, to get a look at the
entrees before my dinner seating. (I always thought the finest
resturants had pictures on the menu like denny's, but noooooooo.)
There were never more than a dozen people in the alternative dining.
Even allowing for the hours it was available, I doubt if more than 75
people used it.
------------------
Spam free Usenet news http://www.newsguy.com
LaTa3
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Dinner and dressing up
>You continue to harp on this shorts and tee-shirts thing. I suggest
>you see a doctor and ask him for the cure to Cranial-Rectum Syndrome.
>
The one who started this said that he wants to be able to only wear shorts and
t shirts all vacation. That was not my idea. As to your medical reference, try
it yourself, rude person!!!
>If people can have a totally smoke-free ship, and some people want a
>totally child-free ship, why, oh, why can't there be a ship in a fleet
>that *will* only have casual nights? Then, if you don't want to have
>your atmosphere ruined, simply don't book that ship!
>
>
ONe ship per fleet would not bother me--the posts here want to do away with all
formal nights rather than utilize the already available options that they have.
Why not one child free ship per fleet as well--there really are no options
available for that now, just some possibilties if you go on the most expensive
lines or at only certain times and then there still may be little ones who may
or may not behave in a manner that permits adults to enjoy their cruise. In
fact a no formal night, all casual cruise might be great for all the folks with
kiddies, then they would have casual dining every night and no problems with
the little ones who can't yet handle the formal setting , time, etc.
No, do not do away with ALL formal nights on ships.
No, do not have all child free ships
No, do not have all smoke free ships
There are enough out there to please every one.
As to the people who would like to dine in shorts every night, they already
have their option -- it is called Windjammer Barefoot Cruises. (not to mention
all the other options on most any other ship)
George Leppla
Lee Lindquist wrote in message
>I see alternative dining as removing one more barrier to someone seleting
>a cruise vacation
Lee, what do you think that "barrier" is?
Perhaps a reluctance to "have" to dress formally for dinner?
Do you know that people will not consider going on a cruise because they
perceive them to be "too fancy" and fear that they would feel out of place?
Until recently, cruise lines fed this fear by showing pictures of models
wearing evening gowns and tuxedos. They wanted "middle America types" on the
ships but were scaring them away with an image that was more fiction than
fact. There were no old people, no black people (except the servers, of
course), no children, no families. Everyone was 35 years old and one step
away from Vogue or GQ.
I just paged through CCL and NCL's Caribbean brochure. Not one picture of a
passenger in a tux. Lots of middle aged people, seniors, families and even
some minorities portrayed as passengers!
Bottom line: The average cruise passenger on the popular, mid-level cruise
lines does NOT equate formal dining with having fun. The cruise lines
recognize this trend and have adjusted their product by offering alternative
dining, 24 hour dining, enhanced room service and other things like pizza
parlors.
Odd that with the "casualizing" of the cruise lines they are selling cabins
at record numbers, growing at record rates and making record profits.
George in PA <--- still hates the snobbish attitude of people who say things
like "middle America types"
Fred Lanyard
Ermalee McCauley <erm...@erols.com> wrote:
>And Fred has kept his promise.
>
>Ermalee <---thinking a person should be limited to no more than ten
> responses in a day.....yawn! :-)
Dear Ermalee and Becca or even LaTa3:
Now I am really lost. I didn't think I was even in this thread. Tell
me what I promised so I know what to deliver.
Please don't ignore this as I am really confused.
...I am thinking of printing up cards to hand out to all the people
around me in the dining room asking them to tell me what they would be
happy with in my dress options.
Fred <--- doesn't usually worry about what others think of his semi-or
non-haute couture. Should I start now????
Regards,
Fred Lanyard
CRUISE VALUE CENTER
(800)231-SHIP Residence:(732)636-0938
By the Book
Uh-huh. You can't fool us, Tom. You were typing with one hand again,
weren't you?;)
Kate in NY<~~~~thinks the image of high heels and ruffly socks impaired
Tom's typing
Tom & Linda <"TKAN...@worldnet.att.net"@postoffice.att.net> wrote in
article <6kl3bm$t...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
> Sorry, meant High Heels and Ruffle Socks.
> > Accompanied by High Hells and Ruffle Socks?
> >
> > --Tom
> >
> > Becca wrote:
> > >
> > > Wonder what their formal night would be like? Cummerbund and bow tie
> > > only?
> > >
> > > Becca <-----hoping they pack lots of sunscreen...!
> > >
> > > Tom Crawford wrote:
> > > >
> > > > If dressing up is that big a turn-off, check out the post on nude
cruising —
> > > > no requirements there, I believe!
> > > >
> > > > Barry Kutner wrote in message <6khfo1$n...@enews4.newsguy.com>...
> > > > >Greetings all - We (me, wife, 2 kids) have booked our first cruise
on
> > > > >the NCL Crown to Bermuda in August. For me, the biggest turn off
of
> > > > >the cruise is the need to get dressed up for dinner
>
LaTa3
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Dinner and dressing up
>In article <6kjr6e$d...@enews3.newsguy.com>, "George Leppla"
><hbtr...@chesco.com> wrote:
>
> This is not only the elite of society, but plain old, common,
>> everyday working people and if you take another look at this thread, you'll
>> find that most of them do not want to get dressed for a formal dinner.
>
>Gee, I don't see that at all. I read tons of posts from folks who love
>doing the formal thing!
I saw that too, but get attacked for not wanting to give up formal dinners.
LaTa3
>But isn't it nice that we all get to participate in the grandeur of
>cruising, and that it's become affordable for most and not the private
>doamin of the John J Astors or others? We can all enjoy all the pomp and
>circumstance without the class differential, and I think that's great. Why
>not all of us come up to what was once the preferred class, rather than us
>all sinking to steerage?
>>
>> Middle Americans are filling these new ships and paying their way with
>their
>> middle-income salaries. If the cruise lines want to make a profit, they
>must
>> supply their customers with a product that they want and are comfortable
>> with. Rich, elegant, sophisticated people who like to dress formally for
>> dinner aren't buying the $899 Royal Caribbean or Carnival cruise.
>
>Yeah, they are too. Rich, elegant and sophisticated doesn't necessarily
>mean snobbish. I'm sure that there will be those who would snub such
>common lines as RCL and Carnival, but I'm betting that lots of them
>richies are cruising right next to the rest of us.
>
>Lee
>>
Right, Lee. You said it well too!
And having met hundreds of appropriately dressed fellow cruisers over the years
I can agree that their income level has no bearing on their snobbishness or
lack thereof. Some of the nicest and most down to earth people I have met have
turned out to be the very wealthy, and they were not snobby to any poor working
stiff such as myself!!
Tom & Linda
Hey Kate, I'm lucky that I can even type with more than 2 fingers (1 one
on each hand <snicker>).
--Tom (amazed that his fingers can still pretty much remember what to do
from way back during 10th grade in the 60's when he was in typing class
with almost all girls - wow :) also glad there's a backspace key)
lee_lindquist
In article <6kn0e8$n...@enews1.newsguy.com>, "George says...
>
>
>Lee Lindquist wrote in message
>
>>I see alternative dining as removing one more barrier to someone seleting
>>a cruise vacation
>
>Lee, what do you think that "barrier" is?
>
>Perhaps a reluctance to "have" to dress formally for dinner?
Yes, I'm not disagreeing with you. The cruise lines can expand
their customer base by removing the barriers that prevent people
from cruising.
I think if you asked people what the classic reasons are for
not taking a cruise, some answers might be:
1) Don't want to dress up / too formal.
2) Don't want to be stuck for 7-days if it turns out I don't like it.
3) I won't be able to play golf.
4) There won't be enough to do on the ship, I'd rather be on a beach.
(I'm sure the TA's can enlighten me with many more.)
I see cruise lines offering alternative dining, golf simulators,
ice-skating, virtual-reality, private islands, etc. all as an attempt
to remove the customers' perceived negatives.
It makes people less afraid. From what I've read, very few
people have used carnival's guarantee; but I bet it encouraged
a lot of people to cruise, when they knew they could bail-out.
Aren't there classic psycology studies where they wire two groups
of people's tasty-bits up to machines where they are shocked; and the give one
group an 'off' button? Then, they ask both groups how bad it was.
The button group is tortured an equal amount, but doesn't mind it nearly
as much.
So, how bad was formal night, knowing you had an alternative
available to you?
With regard to attracting 'middle america', isn't that
Kathy Lee's target audience?
Ermalee McCauley
Hi Fred,
George L referred to someone as la de dah and then he was accused of not
keeping his promise. Becca pointed out that you were the one who
promised not to do that. And I pointed out that you had kept your
promise. Then you were referred to as "that other guy Fred" and I
pointed out that you are a respected person on this news group. So
there.
Ermalee <----had enough La-whatever for a month of Sundays
Fred Lanyard wrote:
>
> Ermalee McCauley <erm...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> >And Fred has kept his promise.
> >
> >Ermalee <---thinking a person should be limited to no more than ten
> > responses in a day.....yawn! :-)
>
> Dear Ermalee and Becca or even LaTa3:
>
> Now I am really lost. I didn't think I was even in this thread. Tell
> me what I promised so I know what to deliver.
>
> Please don't ignore this as I am really confused.
>
> ...I am thinking of printing up cards to hand out to all the people
> around me in the dining room asking them to tell me what they would be
> happy with in my dress options.
>
> Fred <--- doesn't usually worry about what others think of his semi-or
> non-haute couture. Should I start now????
Oh, no. Just stay the way you are. And don't worry.
Appdad
la...@aol.com (BTW don't you have a real name??) wrote -
<<I saw that too, but get attacked for not wanting to give up formal dinners.>>
Sheesh - has anyone suggested any such thing? All I've been suggesting is that
the cruise lines provide some additional choices for us that don't care about
putting on a coat and tie during OUR vacation. And I mean besides providing a
second rate meal at some alternative dining location. Now whether that means
having one of the sittings casual and one formal or whether it means dedicating
a ship to be all casual I don't know - the market could decide that. Arguing
about this is getting ridiculous though, the lines are smart enough to know
what the public wants and it's clear they are heading towards more and more
choices and informality, so I don't even know what we're arguing about. Let's
just see what the future holds.
BTW - I actually do clean up pretty good myself, check out George's r.t.c.
history site and somewhere there is a photo of me with a nice dark suit on,
that I wore on formal night on the Century. I didn't enjoy doing it but I did
go along with the drill. And my food didn't taste any better because I wore the
suit and it sure didn't add to the festive atmosphere.
John
-----
John Davis app...@aol.com
Ermalee McCauley
Yes, John, you clean up real nice. I just went to
http://chesco.com/~hbtravel/hist.htm
and checked out your photo. Nice!
Ermalee
Charles
Appdad wrote in message <199805292220...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>la...@aol.com (BTW don't you have a real name??) wrote -
>
>having one of the sittings casual and one formal or whether it means
dedicating
>a ship to be all casual I don't know - the market could decide that.
Arguing
>about this is getting ridiculous though, the lines are smart enough to know
>what the public wants and it's clear they are heading towards more and more
>choices and informality, so I don't even know what we're arguing about.
Let's
>just see what the future holds.
Our culture in the US has been moving toward more informality, casual
Fridays are an example of this trend. The cruise lines will follow this
trend, they have no stake in upholding formality. Cruises are no longer a
niche market, and the lines have to fill all that new capacity they have
built.
LaTa3
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Dinner and dressing up
>Dear Ermalee and Becca or even LaTa3:
>
>Now I am really lost. I didn't think I was even in this thread. Tell
>me what I promised so I know what to deliver.
>
>Please don't ignore this as I am really confused.
>
>...I am thinking of printing up cards
Hello Fred!!
I will not ignore you.
I made an error and referred to you when I was replying to George. The reason I
made the error is that he copied your nasty sounding La De Dah, mocking my
screen name. You had already explained yourself and promised not to do that,
and when I saw that opening to his very nasty post, I mistakenly thought it was
you. But Ermalee and Becca pointed out my error and I mea culpa'd---will cc
this to you, but will post it also in case anyone else is confused.
Sorry, Fred---- but see what you started Ü
Aaron Farr
John,
I think the thing about this subject that gets to people is that when
they try to think of the cruise as a special occasion and dress accordingly,
someone comes to dinner in jeans, baseball cap and his best Budweiser
T-shirt. My feeling is the type of setting of the dining room. Because I
always plan to eat in the Dining Room, I follow the dress code. If I go to
a classy restaurant, (as most ships dining rooms qualify as), I shouldn't
dress like a day at the beach. But if I go to Wendy's for a burger, I can
dress like that.
We found on Carnival, that some of the best food was on the back deck, "the
alternative", in a more informal atmosphere. We had seafood crepes, and one
of the best steaks I ever had, and other assorted goodies all week long.
What was
also nice about this, was we took it all out to a table outside with a view
of the ships wake. Dressing formally out back there is overdressed, as much
out of place, as being underdressed is in the dining room.
Aaron
Appdad wrote in message <199805281703...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>I find this topic very interesting, in that it always seems to really evoke
the
>strongest emotions in people. Some folks love to dressup, while others
(like
>me) can't stand it. My opinion is I wear a coat and tie to work everyday;
when
>on vacation I like to relax and not have to mess with the dressup routine.
>Someone mentioned how special cruising is and how dressing up made it all
the
>more special. To me a cruise isn't any more special than any other vacation
I
>take and in fact, I hope to take at least one a year from now on. Cost wise
it
>is even cheaper than other vacations we've taken like WDW. When we go to
WDW we
>certainly don't tote suits, etc. along; why should we when we go on a
cruise,
>just so as to go along with some archaic, out of date social scheme or
worst
>yet go thru some play acting role, dreaming that we're sailing on the great
>liners of the past..
>
>My main interest in this discussion though is the future of the cruise
industry
>and the changes that the lines are and will be making to suit the growing
>cruise population. I have an idea, what is wrong with the suggestion that
they
>make one of the sittings purely informal all nights and the other like it
is
>now (or even more formal if you wish). Or for ships with multiple dining
rooms
>(such as Princess), why not have one formal, one informal (I'm not talking
>about the alternative dining area here, but a regular dining room)? What
are
>the pro's/con's of this idea? Speaking of which - exactly how many dining
rooms
>does the Grand Princess have? What about RCI's new Eagle ships? Couldn't
they
>use this concept on those ships? Or is this too much like going back to
some
>type of class system?
>
>You know when we get into these type of discussions, I sure wish we had
some ng
>members that work for some of the lines participating. I sure would love to
>hear what the various lines have to say as far as what their market
research
>has told them. I bet they have really studied this thing to death.
Fred Lanyard
la...@aol.com (LaTa3) wrote:
>Hello Fred!!
>I will not ignore you.
>Sorry, Fred---- but see what you started Ü
Well, I have to tell ya, that when I called you that other name, it
was purely out of affection, just as Ermalee is Ermie, Cupcaked was
Cuppy, Becca was.... (we will keep *that* pet name a secret) and
Yvonne is (hmmm, another secret). Any chance you might change it? And
you should forgive George...ever since everyone copied his straight
arrow thing, he figures he can plagiarize anything that appeals to
him. Both of us are too big to fight so we get away with lots like
that.
Anyway, if you feel like this thread has run its course, you can go on
to better things secure in the knowledge that "this too shall pass"
and no one will remember it in a few weeks. Honest.
Becca
Many people love eating in the Bistro, NCL's alternative dining. The
food is the same, as well as the silverware, stemware and china, so the
dining experience is not much different, except you and your companion
can dine alone together (what an oxymoron!)
Alternative dining is not for me. I do not want my tablemates to feel
snubbed or rejected. I would rather endure the discomfort, than risk
causing hurt feelings. Besides, I have never had a tablemate that I did
not enjoy their company.
So, what other alternatives do I have available to me, Windjammer? Not
hardly. Windjammer is a unique experience, but it is not the same as a
conventional cruise. The food is completely different, as are the
accommodations, and there is no showroom entertainment, casino, swimming
pool, steel drum band, spa, gym, jogging track, children's program,
dance club, library, movie theater, ballroom dancing, beauty salon and
there is no midnight buffet (horrors!). So, puh-leeeze quit suggesting
Windjammer, it is NOT a viable alternative, IMO.
Do formal nights ruin my vacation? Not a chance, I will be happy and
have fun wherever I go and whatever I do, that's just the way I am.
Nothing gets between me and having fun. I pack the formal garb and I
wear it with a smile. I don't like it, but like I said before, that's
the price you have to pay if you wanna cruise. If that's the worse
thing that happens to me all day, I will consider myself lucky.
Limiting formal nights to at-sea days would help.
Becca <-----has had fun in a hurricane...
Becca
My friend Sally and her hubby went on this Yangtze River cruise, and
they loved it. It is one of their favorites, and they cruise a lot.
You didn't see any dogs or cats on the land tours? =;o
Becca <-----wondering what "Chow" was in the Chicken Chow Mein ...
Peter Bugda
After reading the posts about the extraordinary elegance of this
beautiful Grand Princess cruise ship; and, now this controversial
discussion about formal or casual dress in the dining room.
This discussion should come to a screeching halt.....since the answer
is rather obvious.
Peter
que sera sera
The Sullivans
Justene
Charles wrote:
>
> Our culture in the US has been moving toward more informality, casual
> Fridays are an example of this trend. The cruise lines will follow this
> trend, they have no stake in upholding formality. Cruises are no longer a
> niche market, and the lines have to fill all that new capacity they have
> built.
I found this note way deep in the thread and it is the most sensible one
so far. This change is a societal one not middle America ruining the
old traditions. I suppose there was much whining when men stopped
wearing hats in public and women showed up at work in pantsuits
(actually I remember the whining about pants on women). I also remember
having to dress for an airplane. Here in California, I can go to most
restaurants in shorts and a Tshirt and have a very nice dining
experience. Others will be dressed and others will be in shorts also.
I remember the first time I convinced my visiting father-in-law not to
change for dinner. He fretted all the way about his shorts until we
were greeted at the restaurant door by the owner, also in shorts.
It seems that there are some ships with two "formal" dining rooms and
those could easily have options for dinner. As it is now, we have
noticed that although most people are in fine dress for dinner, only
about half will remain that way for afterdinner festivities.
Justene
Justene
Becca wrote:
>
> Wonder what their formal night would be like? Cummerbund and bow tie
> only?
>
> Becca <-----hoping they pack lots of sunscreen...!
>
after a long discussion with my husband, we did a little research.
According to the bare-necessities site, as hubby predicted, most people
on nude cruises dress for dinner, though the dress is apparently less
formal. As far as I can tell, they are nude because being nude is
comfortable. Eating in the nude is not as comfortable (dropped food
comes to mind) and formal wear is not as comfortable.
Justene, who discovered after reading how often nudists do get dressed
that she and both daughters probably qualify as nudists