On-board Art Auction..... Park West Gallery
imd8ta
Tom & Linda
fancy copies.
Visit a real gallery in one of the ports and buy a real piece of artwork
(oil painting, water color, sculpture) from a real artist instead of a
print. You'll have something created by the artist's hands instead of
something that came out of a machine or computer.
--Tom
"imd8ta" <imd...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d74c228b69071655...@localhost.talkabouttravelling.com...
Susette405
>something that came out of a machine or computer.
I agree Tom.. many of these are fancy posters in frames
Susette
Join us on our Annual Group Cruise 04Dec04 Jewel of the Seas!
Check out our website: www.cruiseoutlets.com
Sue and Kevin Mullen
Susette405 wrote:
>>hing created by the artist's hands instead of
>>something that came out of a machine or computer.
>
>
> I agree Tom.. many of these are fancy posters in frames
Sue, Park West does not sell posters!!
sue
Charles
Mullen <kjmu...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Sue, Park West does not sell posters!!
It is a bit of a stretch or exageration to call them posters. However
the hand of the original artist did not touch many of the "works" they
sell at those auctions. My own term would be decorations. Decorations
can be nice to have and hang, just don't confuse them with a painting
or watercolor that was created directly by an artists hand.
--
Charles
Susette405
Well I saw posters in frames!
Susette405
>the hand of the original artist did not touch many of the "works" they
>sell at those auctions. My own term would be decorations. Deco
Absolutely Charles.. these are copies of pictures that is all.. seems like
every ship has the same pictures
Charles
<suset...@aol.comnojunk> wrote:
> Absolutely Charles.. these are copies of pictures that is all.. seems like
> every ship has the same pictures
Yes. When you cruise two or three times a year on different ships is
when you really notice they have the same pictures.
--
Charles
Sue and Kevin Mullen
Susette405 wrote:
>>Sue, Park West does not sell poster
>
>
> Well I saw posters in frames!
The only posters that I have ever seen at a Park West auction on land or
at sea, were the ones that they were giving away to those who attended
the auctions. Maybe you are calling some of the art work posters?
sue
David Seifert
galleries in port and buy real art yada, yada yada. Good advice and a
fine way to bring back something that will be a lasting reminder of
your travels.
I do take exception to your characterization of the Park West
offerings as "posters". This isn't entirely true. They may puff up
what they are offering vastly but they are real litho/serigraphs in
some cases. Most buyers would be shocked to learn that that georgeous
"giclee" is just a fancy name for an inkjet print on heavy paper.
If you know what you are looking at and what the real value is you can
sometimes get an OK deal. The stuff of theirs that I bought back in
'99 was beautifully mounted and framed. They were the "come-on"
pieces offered at the beginning of the buying orgy so I got them for
just slightly more than the value of the framing.
The biggest fraud they perpetrate is that you are buying art "off
shore" and that it is exempt from duty. Total crap! You are buying
merchandise from a US company delivering to a US address from a US
address. You don't need to declare it on your customs declaration
because you didn't purchase anything out of the country. Look at the
sales contract!
For the record, they shipped my stuff on a timely basis and I enjoy
looking at it even today. Their puffery and fraudulent
representations on board are reprehensible but an informed consumer
can do OK. Oh, and listening to them do their speil can be great fun
on the third consecutive day at sea. Sort of a snakeoil saleman kind
of slimy charm.
David
"Tom & Linda" <tkan...@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<_SDJb.10705$g77.3...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>...
Tom & Linda
There is of course NO DUTY on US made prints. Not that they're worth more
than a few dollars anyway (true cost).
If they were made in a place like China, then the duty on the real value of
the print (probably less than about 5 cents) was paid by Park West when they
brought it into the US. All the rest of the price is US based profit for
which there should be no duty.
Snake oil... I like the term.
But I wasn't the one that use the term "posters". I used the term prints.
As opposed to real art.
--Tom
"David Seifert" <dsei...@absolute.net> wrote in message
news:9908da32.04010...@posting.google.com...
RICK DAVIS
real? The original Picasso was was not real? The original Mel Blanc
cartoon cell was not real or an original? They were fakes, prints,
posters and put up for sale as originals?
The Kinkade I bought and have hanging on my wall right
now....Quiet Evening....Which is now sold out (limited edition with DNA
signature) is a poster? Gee I better tell the appraiser at the Kinkade
Gallery he has no idea what he is doing.
To sell a copy of a piece of Art and advertise and sell it as an
original is fraud. A crime. Probably multi charges due to being in
international waters. Yes there are copies in the auction. You do have
to have a little knowledge of what you looking at, but to say Park West
Gallery only sell posters is not a fair or an accurate statement. They
do tell you up front if its a print, CP, AP (artist Proof) or other.
My guess is the other posters only hung out long enough to scarf down
the free cheap champagne then collect their free art poster on the way
out. There are original works of art to be had by very well known
artists.
Like anything you would buy do your homework before you buy. If
you have a favorite artist know what their work is selling
for....original, limited edition, print.
Sue and Kevin Mullen
RICK DAVIS wrote:
> Like anything you would buy do your homework before you buy. If
> you have a favorite artist know what their work is selling
> for....original, limited edition, print.
Doing your homework is very important. The other important thing is to
only buy what you love and want to hang on your walls. If what you buy
appreciates with time, wonderful, but if not you have something you
enjoy looking at.
sue
Mark Katzenberger
- Peter Max is a has-been. He has been trafficking in his 60s fame for
years. To be frank, his work for the past 20 years is CRAP. In almost all
cases, I firmly believe that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but in
some cases I can't even go there.
- Salvador Dali prints are usually worthless. I don't know the details, but
I know that most prints are not considered seriously collectable. The
specific prints and series you own may be beyond reproach, but I DO know
that unscrupulous dealings in the 80s have undermined the market for his
works.
- Cartoon gels are another area where there has been widespread
misrepresentation. Yes, there are some paintings that are legitimate and
interesting works from classic animation. However, there is an entire
secondary market in prints on gel which is worth nothing in comparison to
the original pieces.
- There have been a number of painful threads about Thomas Kinkade over the
past couple of years. I know I would never "invest" in a mass-produced
product which is a print with paint-by-numbers "enhancement" by unnamed
artisans and then has to rely upon a gimmick like "DNA signature." Whatever
quote you might get from a land-based Painter of Light (c) franchise is not
necessarily a lasting guarantee of its value.
- Picasso was a remarkably prolific artist. In contrast to the above names,
I agree that his legacy will be long lasting, and I'm unaware of any
accusations of fraud surrounding works bearing his name. However, whether
the print you purchased was a "good deal" is another question.
The basic question is "Is this piece worth what I paid for it in the amount
of enjoyment it gives to me?" If you look upon it like a decorative piece
of furniture (which MAY eventually increase in value) you're on the right
track. Do NOT take what the auctioneers say to you on face value -- they're
there to sell the product. When you see all of the pieces going for what
appear to be huge discounts -- do you really think that your particular
cruise is so special? If not -- how can they continue to do business on so
many ships year after year (and pay a HEFTY fee to the cruiselines in the
process)?
That said -- we DO own three prints which we've bought from Park West. Now,
we noticed a definite change in the merchandise since 1997 or so, (and we
were highly selective when we purchased them before then)
-- but the same rules of thumb regarding their value applies.
We love the pieces we purchased
They have brought enjoyment into our lives which far outweighs the price we
paid
Although they are legitimate prints (lithographs) we never would confuse
them with original works on canvas or paper
They delight our eyes and enhance our home. They are not an investment.
Mark
"RICK DAVIS" <RICK...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:8670-3FF...@storefull-2295.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Tom & Linda
"RICK DAVIS" <RICK...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:8670-3FF...@storefull-2295.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> real? The original Picasso was was not real? The original Mel Blanc
> cartoon cell was not real or an original? They were fakes, prints,
> posters and put up for sale as originals?
> The Kinkade I bought and have hanging on my wall right
> now....Quiet Evening....Which is now sold out (limited edition with DNA
> signature) is a poster? Gee I better tell the appraiser at the Kinkade
> Gallery he has no idea what he is doing.
An appriaser at a Kinkade Gallery?
He's there because Kinkade or the Gallery owner pays him.
Oh... he knows what he's doing. That's for sure. He's there to convince
you to part with your money.
Why don't you find an appraiser at the Metropolitan Museum of Art or
Southaby's and see what they say?
--Tom
sven
We bought five pieces on Legend of The Seas on Miami San Diego cruise
26 oct to 9 nov.
WP invoiced them, we paid. WP shipped only four of them to us.
They have not answered my mail where I asked for an explanation.
Last time I buy anything from them!
Sven
Nitemare
"Mark Katzenberger" <ma...@marknospamkatzenberger.com> wrote in message
news:6nNJb.5672$197....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
> Rick,
>
> - Peter Max is a has-been. He has been trafficking in his 60s fame for
> years. To be frank, his work for the past 20 years is CRAP. In almost all
> cases, I firmly believe that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but in
> some cases I can't even go there.
But I *like* Peter Max, his work from the 60's and 70's mostly, but much of
his recent work as well. And so do many other folks, evidenced by the fact
that the stuff sells.
Your post here is quite valuable, Mark, but when you start stating your
opinions so strongly, it takes away from the rest of what you have to say.
Jim
homework before going to one of thse waste of time "ART" auctions???
I'll bet not even 10%. 5%? For most it is just a time waster, nothing
else to do. JDR
Nitemare
I've talked to folks who have spent $10K and more on Chagalls and other
works onboard, and they've told me they've done enough research that proved
to them and me that the savings over buying on the ship instead of at a good
price ashore more than paid for their vacations.
"Jim" <jdr...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:799-3FFA...@storefull-3153.bay.webtv.net...
RICK DAVIS
cruises I met several dealers. One went to every auction. At one
auctions alone he spent over $30,000. He said he's been doing this for
years and resells the works at his gallery for huge profits. What you
think is a waste of time is is of great interest and profit to others.
It might only be a waste of time and money to those who can't be
bothered to do a little footwork and realize the difference between an
original and a poster.
For the record Peter Max (who's work I don't really care for) is
not restricted to only the 60's. He has very recent works out. Most
start in the $14,000 range. Not bad for a has-been.
Sue and Kevin Mullen
RICK DAVIS wrote:
On the last two
> cruises I met several dealers. One went to every auction. At one
> auctions alone he spent over $30,000. He said he's been doing this for
> years and resells the works at his gallery for huge profits.
We have also seen dealers buying in large quantity at the art auctions.
Some of them are looking for particular artists that their clients want
to buy. I have seen dealers spending way over $30.000. I have also seen
individuals buying very expensive pcs of art that they didn't like, but
had already spoken to a gallery at home where they knew they would be
able to sell it at a large profit.
sue
Helen
2003. It had to be shipped and took a good 2 weeks to get to us but it was
in perfect shape and it was worth it to us. We had to get it framed though
and that cost alot!
Countdown to Inspiration Countdown to Carnival Inspiration!!!!
"imd8ta" <imd...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Sue and Kevin Mullen
Helen wrote:
> We got a painting from one of their auctions on the Triumph in February
> 2003. It had to be shipped and took a good 2 weeks to get to us but it was
> in perfect shape and it was worth it to us. We had to get it framed though
> and that cost alot!
We have bought a lot and it was also delivered well within the time they
stated. Good framing does cost a lot, but I consider it a decorating
cost and we enjoy looking at our art collection.
sue
RICK DAVIS
want these works. So for a dealer to buy a ticket for a cruise then
resell the art it has to be profitable for them. Or there wouldn't be
so many dealers on these cruises. Some works can be bought at huge
discounts over land gallery prices. These dealers know a good thing. I
am very pleased with the few I bought from Park West.
Sue and Kevin Mullen
RICK DAVIS wrote:
So are we. When we first started we just listened and maybe bought
something inexpensive that we "liked". Now we buy only because we "like"
it, but we have learnt a lot and know what we are buying. I have to say
it is dangerous going to an art auction, we always seem to buy
something(grin).
sue
DaFlaBear
There is a Leroy Neiman signed lithograph of a Swifty Lazar Academy
Award night party at the old Spago that seems to find it's way on every
RCCL cruise.
My wife thinks it's ugly, but one of these voyages I'll drink too much
of the bubbly and pop for the $3,500 and buy it just because I like it!
