Art Auction Scams - getting your money back
BOTW
It turns out that (surprise, surprise) people are being blatantly
overcharged for the "art" they bid on and its retail value is dramatically
overstated.
Carnival and Travel Agents know this but turns a blind eye (it increase
their revenue)
All is not lost, however -- passengers, after coming ashore and finding that
they paid a lot of money for worthless "art" are fighting back and demanding
refunds from Carnival. To keep the scam quiet, Carnival is refunding the
money.
So what do you do if you've been one of the victims:
1. Get a written appraisal from a reputable gallery (Salvador Dali
Gallery in California receives at least 50 calls a week from people who
found out they were scammed and want a realistic assessment of how bad the
scam was). This only works it you were scammed on "art" from a recognized
artist (Dali, Miro, Renoir, etc.). If you bought a piece from one of those
no-name artists they sell or the Warner Bros crap, you probably can't get a
written estimate as it is essentially worthless (maybe you can sell the
frame).
2. Dispute the transaction with your credit card company. Tell them that
the seller (Carnival) misrepresented the merchandise. American Express is
good about protecting their cardholders from scams. I'm not sure about the
others.
3. Don't waste your time complaining to your Travel Agent. If he was
ethical, he would have forewarned you and you wouldn't be in this fix. But
that tells you something about the Agent for next time.
4. Send a Certified Letter to Carnival, including the written appraisal,
and demand a refund. You'll probably get it.
Good luck
Paul
Manuel Ful
Who would be silly enough to by art at an auction on a ship!? That whole
thing has "scam" written all over it.
Chuck.K
Manuel Ful wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> Who would be silly enough to by art at an auction on a ship!? That whole
> thing has "scam" written all over it.
>
> Alex
If you've ever cruised any on the major cruise lines, you wouldn't have
to ask this question. FWIW, the (phony) art auction is one of the MAJOR
income revenue schemes onboard. Ranks right up there with the casino
and photo gallery. In the case of the (phony) art, since the markup is
so incredibly high (they pay next to nothing for that "art"), it's
almost ALL profit.
BTW, they sell a lot of the same crap that is sold at a rented hotel
room and advertised late at night on most local TV stations (Collector's
art).
Chuck
Jos Flachs
<manu...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>Who would be silly enough to by art at an auction on a ship!? That whole
>thing has "scam" written all over it.
I feel the same. I don't see it as a 'scam, but certainly no value for
money. You'll be hard pressed to find a more captivated audience.
Those lines that have auctions, are doing well enough (regarding the
auctions) to have an real auctioneer sailing. Thus, plenty of people
who do not agree with us.
Jos Flachs
World Cruise Travel
Bangkok, Thailand
Replying? Just remove the quotes
Amy
the auctions and who were spending a great deal of money daily. We
felt really sorry for them but we did not say anything because they
really didn't want to know.
Manuel Ful
rooms with some label indicating attribution and provenance.
But who would bid at an auction if you couldn't do your research ahead of
time? Auctions are one of those situations in which the rule of caveat
emptor reigns supreme.
I am a big consumer of antiques and fine art at auctions, and I would NEVER
bid unless I had a catalogue, done my research, and had closely inspected
the item.
BRENTSTELL
Maybe they also should tell you that the shore tours are overpriced and you
should not take them.
Would you listen?
BOTW
she has an obligation to apprise you of the positives and negatives
regarding any travel you book through them. After all, you are paying the
Agent a fee to provide you with their expertise thus helping ensure that you
have a pleasurable experience.
For example, if you book a vacation package to Mexico City, a reputable
Travel Agent would advise you to drink only bottled water and not to go out
alone at night. Of course he can not control what water you drink or when
and with whom you go out, but he has provided you with expertise that should
improve your experience.
Cruise Travel Agents all know about Carnival's Art Auction scam, yet few of
them forewarn their clients.
This is an indication of their ethics and integrity.
"BRENTSTELL" <brent...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010827130620...@mb-cg.aol.com...
Ku...@cruisemates.com
Carnival.
Regards,
Kuki
Features Editor .... not a fan of art auctions at sea. They never seem to be
offering velvet dogs over a pool table
http://www.cruisemates.com
http://www.cruisemates.com/Articles/CMcruises/CM-cruises.cfm
BOTW wrote in message <9mc189$jig$1...@bob.news.rcn.net>...
Diane
know, Princess, Radisson, and Crystal.
Diane
BOTW
I just got off the Seabourn Sun last week -- no Art Auction (no Bingo, Keno,
Horse Racing either)
It might be better if you had the facts before you ran your mouth.
Paul
<Ku...@cruisemates.com> wrote in message
news:sZBi7.129257$sM.35...@news2.rdc1.ab.home.com...
Monte
>
>WRONG KUKI!
>
>I just got off the Seabourn Sun last week -- no Art Auction (no Bingo, Keno,
>Horse Racing either)
>
>It might be better if you had the facts before you ran your mouth.
>
>Paul
Slow down Paul. Maybe Seabourn didn't have an art auction, but I hardly would
call his reply running his mouth.
No Bingo, Keno, Horse Racing? I can mark that cruise line off my list.
-Monte
Robocop
etc so it is basically on all mainline ships, not just Carnival.
Additionally if you know what you are doing you actually can find some nice
pieces at a great price. Most are overinflated but you shouldn't be buying
art as an investment anyway unless you are buying the top items and those
aren't sold on any ship. You should only buy what you really like.
Jim
"BOTW" <slin...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:9mev05$kou$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
Sue Whitfield
worth X dollars for you to have it... then treat yourself!
No I have never even gone to any of these art Auctions but many people do!
But I feel if you love a picture that much and its in your pocketbook then
go for it!
--
Susette Whitfield-ACC
www.cruiseoutlets.com - A Vacation.com agency
(800) 853-9515
Charles
<cruise...@snip.net> wrote:
> I feel this way about Art..... If you like something and you feel it is
> worth X dollars for you to have it... then treat yourself!
> No I have never even gone to any of these art Auctions but many people do!
> But I feel if you love a picture that much and its in your pocketbook then
> go for it!
I don't consider what they sell at the "art" auctions true art. It is
"faux" art. They sell prints, the same ones on all the ships. They
don't sell original oil paintings or watercolors. I suppose this is
sufficient for people who don't know any better.
--
Charles
NormaBM
>"faux" art. They sell prints, the same
Charles,
Sorry to correct you bit I did purchase an original piece by an artist I love.
Had purchased his pieces before so I knew what I was buying & fair price.
Received the appraisal from Park West, took the piece to an appraiser here for
insurance purposes and it was appraised at considerable higher than I paid. By
the way, my appraiser did not see the Park West appraisal.
As with all purchases-
Buyer Beware.
Norma
Mona
who spent something like $50K *on the cruise ship* on art and sued to get
her money back? I can dig through local papers to find where I read that
but it just struck me as someone with a few loose screws...
--
Laura
...some days it's just not worth gnawing through the restraints.
-Lee Lindquist
Member of the Mercury Aspartame Amalgam Gluten Free Dairy Free Lyme Multiple
Sclerosis Society.
"Charles" <fo...@his.com.remove.invalid> wrote in message
news:280820010943016155%fo...@his.com.remove.invalid...
Howard and Kelly Lute
says...
a curious money making opportunity, everybody there likes them, they're
always packed, the art is art...some you like, some you hate, some's
worth buying, some's not. We went to many, never bid and had a great time
watching the crowd buy, buy, buy. This was on HAL and lot's of fun for
everyone.
--
Friend,
Howard Lute
-kell- eBay Rating: 1050
LPFM Page: http://pw1.netcom.com/~optcamel/fmradio.htm
villa deauville
unable to dock. Drinks were on the house and we found comfy chairs to
while away the time. Unbeknown to us we had planted ourselves where the
auction was taking place/ Never having been to one we stayed. Very
interesting. AND for staying we received an art poster and a gift.
SUNNY<.......thought it was a pretty good day. Free drinks, a poster and
a gift.
Cal Ford
No more so than Bingo or the Casino. It is another form of Revenue generating
entertainment, that is all. All things considered I rather enjoy it, as long as
it does not get out of hand. When we are early for dinner we like to get a drink
and roam around looking at the stuff. True, it is not "Fine Art" but it is
intended to go to someones house and make them happy. If that happens then
great.
We purchased a lithograph of a European scene while on a Canal Cruise once.
Spent about $300 all told. It hangs in my house and every time I pass I smile
for two reasons, remembering when we were at that place in Europe and what a
great Canal Cruise we had when we bought it. If I had said "Wait, maybe I can
get cheaper later" we would not have it all probably and I would miss it dearly.
Now if I had dropped that $300 in the Casino that night instead should I have
gone home and complained about the evil scam of gambling. Would anybody even pay
attention or care. I think not.
Now we have not even been to Paris yet but we will be there in November. While
at CostCo last week they were selling framed lithographs and one of them was a
stylized Parisian skyline. Loved the rendition and the colors. Bought it for my
wife and she will get at Christmas. Am I a bum for buying it at CostCo. Is
someone going to expose the huge art ripoff at warehouse grocery stores.
In conclusion, it is your house, your tastes, your life. Buy it if you like it
and don't worry about what anyone else thinks.
Cal Ford
Lido Deck Cruises
800-511-4417
In article <9mc189$jig$1...@bob.news.rcn.net>, "BOTW" says...
Carole Dunham
loaded with his original oils and watercolors. Nevertheless, I saw two
pieces of art, one a flat sculture hung like a painting and the other a
print, that I like. I bid on them, they both went for nothing since no one
had ever heard of the artists. I can see them both since they are in my
office. I'm glad I got them. I know something abouot art and I enjoy them
and that's all that matters.
Carole
cruz...@cruisemates.com
"Charles" <fo...@his.com.remove.invalid> wrote in message
news:280820010943016155%fo...@his.com.remove.invalid...
Carole Dunham
dealer. Anyone who wouldn't use one for big, major investment art definitely
DOES have a screw loose.
Carole
cruz...@cruisemates.com
"Mona" <mona_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9mgdk1$21viq$1...@ID-95032.news.dfncis.de...
Carole Dunham
adult. If it floats your boat, great.
Carole
cruz...@cruisemates.com
"Cal Ford" <cruis...@lidodeckcruises.com> wrote in message
news:9mgs2...@drn.newsguy.com...
Ben and Jerry
gonna be an original master or a limited edition (or limited to 25,000 pcs).
Art auctions still smell like scams...
--
Ben and Jerry
"Achievement is it's own reward, pride only obscures it" - Major Garland
Briggs
reply to: Benan...@twin-peaks.tmfweb.nl
Carole Dunham <cruz...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:9mgvgd$kjk$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net...
Robocop
quite a few less than many sold right here in the good old US of A! I
collect Wardens prints and they are usually anywhere from 250 prints to 500
copies. They aren't that much, usually from $100 to $300 and they are
appraised at much more by art appraisers here in the USA. Look at the
amazingly popular Thomas Kincade! His prints, (and they all are as his
originals are not for sale), number anywhere from 2500 to 10,000 and even
those have different "editions" so some of his works have maybe 50,000
copies plus and they sell anywhere from $300 up to several thousands! Nobody
seems to rant and rave abouthis work? It all boils down to what so many fine
folks here have said. If YOU like it and feel it is worth it, then it is, so
go ahead and buy it. If you are investing, then don't, look for something
else to invest in.
Jim
"Ben and Jerry" <Ben_an...@twin-peaks.tmfweb.nl> wrote in message
news:9mk8dj$715$1...@azure.nl.gxn.net...
jec...@webtv.net
Sorry...couldn't help myself!! <g>
villa deauville
Mine came straight from the Post Office.
SUNNY<.......is sorry she cant share who it is but needs the reward
money for her next cruise.