The Art Auction Scam
BOTW
In view of the recent posts on Art Auctions, here is an article
recently published by the Montgomery County News of Montgomery Texas that
sheds a different light on cruise ship auctions. The article can be found
at http://www.montgomerycountynews.net/travel2-14-2001.htm
Cruise ships are becoming floating galleries, with the champagne
flowing. Prospects of getting a shipboard deal on a big-name work or a
simple seascape to hang over your sofa is seductive.
But be on guard: With art auctions on cruise ships increasing, so are
the opportunities for voyagers to overpay.
"This is not a serious art auction, not an investment opportunity,"
says veteran appraiser Bernard Ewell, who verifies the authenticity of
Salvador Dali prints sold by Park West Gallery on dozens of cruises.
Bargains aren't guaranteed.
"It is buyer beware," adds Bruce Hochman, director of the Dali Gallery
in Pacific Palisades, California, who observed an auction on a Carnival
cruise to Mexico. "There was this great urgency. The idea that it is a great
buy, get it now." A Dali print his gallery sells for $250 was described as
being appraised for $6,500 and went for about $2,000.
It is hard to be cautious at a cruise-ship sale, unless you simply
don't attend. The champagne is flowing and you are in a captive environment.
You are relaxed. It is a party atmosphere with an air of excitement about
it. But the sale itself is like those one-of-a-kind Persian rug sales at the
local Holiday Inn.
Kitty Yancey of USA TODAY conducted a survey and more than half stated
they didn't buy because prices were too high. The auctioneers do some
educating along with the selling, so half of the survey respondent's were
satisfied with their purchases and looked at them as "souvenirs from our
trip".
To avoid feeling framed after an auction, experts offer these tips:
*Read the fine print. Your winning bid is just the beginning. You will
also pay a "premium" to the auction house. Princess Cruises tacks on 10%;
auction gian Park West Gallery charges 12 1/2% to 15%.
*Framing and Shipping Charges. This can add hundreds to the bottom
line.
*Don't be misled by auctioneers who declare that pieces are appraised
at a figure higher than what you could sell them for back home. Don't depend
on the person who is selling you your art to give you the market
information. It is important to get a second opinion.
*Be satisfied that a price is fair. Sea sales are typically final,
though there can be room for haggle. But once you are off that ship, mate,
you are on your own. The cruise ships generally refer claims to the
galleries themselves.Princess Cruises say that purchases on their ships
aren't final. "We do realize that people on holiday can be impulsive and
that can lead to buyer's remorse, " says Brian Langston-Carter, Princess
executive. "We try to offer customer assistance".Regardless of policy, it is
a big hassle once you are stateside, so put down the champagne glass and
take a second look before you whip out that credit card.
*Don't be blinded by myths about art. Prices don't necessarily go up.
Big names don't always have more value, especially if the market is flooded
with their work. Certificates of authenticity can be worthless. There are a
lot of fakes out there.
Art auctions are a popular activity on board and cruise lines get an
undisclosed percentage of art-sale profits. The average seagoer shouldn't
purchase art as an investment. Buy it only because you like it and want to
live with it.
Remember, you also have the photo gallery to pass through onboard
every night. Those pictures of you drinking the pretty drinks with the
little umbrellas are works of art that you will cherish, for a while,and
they are a whole lot cheaper!
Mike Cordelli
certainly deserves to be taken.
The woman who spend $57,000 on art on a cruise in your other post should
have been too embarrassed by her stupidity to even come forward and admit
it.
It's not a scam, and people aren't being overcharged. They voluntarily hand
over the money, and nobody is forcing them to spend the money. They don't
have to agree to the fee, and if they are bidding on something, they should
know what they are bidding on, especially if spending $57,000. on it.
"BOTW" <slin...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:abgm54$6bd$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
SNUMBER6
>Anybody who believes they are getting a deal at one of these auctions
>certainly deserves to be taken.
>
>The woman who spend $57,000 on art on a cruise in your other post should
>have been too embarrassed by her stupidity to even come forward and admit
it
>It's not a scam, and people aren't being overcharged. They voluntarily hand
>over the money, and nobody is forcing them to spend the money. They don't
>have to agree to the fee, and if they are bidding on something, they should
>know what they are bidding on,
>especially if spending $57,000. on it.
>
So true ... but something as subjective as art is a buyer-seller contract based
on nothing at all to do with the true value of something but rather what the
buyer is willing to pay for it ...
The same is true for stamps, baseball cards, antiques etc. for the most part
these items are worth nothing ... unless there is a buyer who will pay
something for it ...then it has a value ...
Gold is worth 310.60 an ounce ...
That same ounce of gold was $32 in 1968 and $700 in 1980 ... was someone who
paid $700 in 1980 scammed ???
In the Village ....
I am not a number ... I am a free man !!!!
BOTW
It's a SCAM -- the onboard auction company is intentionally misrepresenting
the true value of the art being offered and lying about the probability of
it appreciating.
Cruise Lines know this. Travel Agents know this. The only people that
don't are the poor souls who naively believe that the cruise lines, travel
agents and art auction companies are telling them the truth.
You can blame the passengers if you want to, call them all stupid. But
Cruise Lines know exactly what they're doing. They lower the tariffs so
they can fill their ships with lower income passengers who aren't very
sophisticated. These people are susceptible to being ripped off by the art
scams, watch scams, jewelry scams, keno, etc. etc because they don't know
any better. At home they have their local consumer protection and
government agencies to protect them. On a cruise they have to depend on the
integrity of the Travel Agents and the Cruise Lines (kinda makes your skin
crawl doesn't it).
The sad part is they trusted their Travel Agent and the Cruse Line to
provide an honest vacation package.
Call me crazy, but I abhor seeing people victimized who really can't afford
it.
Paul
"Mike Cordelli" <mi...@cordelli.com> wrote in message
news:rdRC8.16487$Hs.878...@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
Mike Cordelli
protected at an auction. The local consumer protection won't care, as it's
an auction. All the auction company has to do is present a valid appraisal,
which may or may have nothing to do with the actual value of the item, in
most cases it won't, and they are covered. It's no different then any
auction for art or collectibles being held throughout the country.
If people were protected from their own stupidity at art auctions on land,
there wouldn't be any are auctions. We all know there are thousands of art
auctions across the country, and in most cased people are getting ripped
off.
I totally fail to see the connection you are making between travel agents
and the people buying art. Even for you it's a stretch.
"BOTW" <slin...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:abgqsu$mi0$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
Paul Tauger
> Mike,
>
> It's a SCAM -- the onboard auction company is intentionally
misrepresenting
> the true value of the art being offered and lying about the probability of
> it appreciating.
Wait a minute -- how are the misrepresenting the value of the art? Do they
come out and say, "This painting would appraise at $10,000, but we'll start
the bidding at $500"? If so, then that's fraud, and actionable both civilly
and criminally.
BOTW
You hit the nail on the head. That's almost exactly how the cruise ship
auctioneers start the bidding -- "this painting is valued at $10,000 but
we'll start the bidding at $500".
Yes it is fraud and would be actionable IF it was done in the US and covered
by federal and state law. Since, however, the crime occurs on the high
seas, these laws don't apply (that's why people robbed or assaulted on ship
can not sue in US court).
The Cruse Lines are free to pull any scam they can get away with. That's
why they're able to offer those fake $500 watches for $59.99. Sure it's
fraud and they'd get shut down in a minute if they pulled it in the US, but
at sea, what are the passengers gonna do about it, go to Liberia or whatever
country they're registered in and sue them?
In truth passenger's should have been warned by their Travel Agents who are
supposed to be representing them, not the Cruse Lines. TAs know, however,
that if they told you this you may not go so they keep their mouths shut.
Paul
"Paul Tauger" <ptauger...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:abgrto$i9uhn$1...@ID-101118.news.dfncis.de...
Juliana L Holm
> Mike,
> It's a SCAM -- the onboard auction company is intentionally misrepresenting
> the true value of the art being offered and lying about the probability of
> it appreciating.
If it is a scam it is a ubiquitous one. The same as Timeshares (good invest-
ment opportunity) and other such. Not black or white I think, but clearly
grey. Same thing goes with jewelry purchases. While they have value, trying
to sell them back for the "appraised" value can be real iffy.
I don't attend art auctions at sea. My church has a charity one every couple
of years, that supports the work of the church, so I do sometimes buy stuff at
that auction which is similar to the at sea auctions. FRankly on a cruise there
is too much else I want to do to bother.
My rule of thumb here is that if it is worth what I am paying for it just for
its pleasure to ME, I will get it. That is why I would NEVER buy a timeshare
but might buy a piece of art at an auction (though never one of the high
end pieces) and did buy an emerald ring (the one I liked best, not necessarily
the most value for the money) in St. Maartin on my last cruise.
If I found out something I bought was intrinsically worthless, would I still
be happy with what _I_ got out of it?
That is the question. If you answer that question YES, then you should buy it
and not look back. If the answer is NO, don't.
Julie
Mike Cordelli
watches are available all over New York for $20 each.
Funny nobody tries to shut them down, nobody is going after the airlines for
transporting tourists to New York without telling them that the fake watches
are fakes, etc. It's the same thing, it's up to the buyer spending $57,000
on the art to beware of it, not up to their travel agent to tell them it may
be overpriced. If somebody is such a moron to spend that kind of money,
what makes you think they would have listened to their agent anyways?
"BOTW" <slin...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:abgte5$2cb$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
> Paul
SNUMBER6
>Big watch raid yesterday in Chinatown....
>Police raided a maze of hidden tunnels under several
>Manhattan stores and seized piles of counterfeit watches, CDs, DVDs,
>and other knockoff goods worth $125 million.
but offered for an opening bid of $10,000
N. Parker
is the same price as you could buy it on land (if not more). But if
you're willing to do a little research you can really make out at
these auctions. I always go to the pre-views, check out the pieces I
want, then go to the internet cafe and look online to see what the
items are selling for (e.g. Ebay completed auctions). It's paid off
EVERY TIME for me. I've bought items for $1200 and as soon as I got
home sold them for double or triple the price. I only buy what I
would want to personally keep (in case I couldn't find a buyer). But
you have to know what the market is for the items you are bidding on.
I would *not* recommend the auctions to the average person (or to
someone who isn't internet savvy enough to research the stuff
themselves). Yes - the average Joe can easily get ripped off at these
things.
On my last cruise, there was a gallery owner (who really knew his
stuff) who bought about $40,000 worth of art. He wasn't "big enough"
to have exclusive deals with the artists and didn't want to risk his
reputation buying stuff from estate sales. He goes on cruises once a
month to stock his gallery and said he always doubles his money when
he gets home.
"Mike Cordelli" <mi...@cordelli.com> wrote in message news:<rdRC8.16487$Hs.878...@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com>...
Paul Tauger
> Paul
>
> You hit the nail on the head. That's almost exactly how the cruise ship
> auctioneers start the bidding -- "this painting is valued at $10,000 but
> we'll start the bidding at $500".
>
> Yes it is fraud and would be actionable IF it was done in the US and
covered
> by federal and state law. Since, however, the crime occurs on the high
> seas, these laws don't apply (that's why people robbed or assaulted on
ship
> can not sue in US court).
Is that right? If the auction company is based in the U.S., I would think
jurisidiction would apply. I need to think about this a bit more, but I
can't think of any reason why someone couldn't sue the art auctioneer in
U.S. if they have a U.S. presence. Perhaps not, though. I haven't dealt
with this particular jurisidiction question before.
If that's the case, I have slightly more sympathy for the victims of this
scam, but only slightly more. When it comes to things like art (or oriental
rugs, or jewelery), I think a strong amount of skepticism is mandatory. Buy
it because you like it, not because you think it's a good investment -- like
any investment, research is necessary before committing hard-earned money.
>
> The Cruse Lines are free to pull any scam they can get away with. That's
> why they're able to offer those fake $500 watches for $59.99. Sure it's
> fraud and they'd get shut down in a minute if they pulled it in the US,
but
> at sea, what are the passengers gonna do about it, go to Liberia or
whatever
> country they're registered in and sue them?
My cruising experience is limited, but I don't recall seeing fake watches
offered for sale by the ship. I can tell you this, though -- if cruise
ships are selling knock-offs, they can be seized by customs when the
passengers disembark in U.S. territory. If I found out that my clients'
products were being knocked-off and sold on a cruise ship, I'd have customs
do a few highly-publicized seizures. I doubt the problem would persist.
>
> In truth passenger's should have been warned by their Travel Agents who
are
> supposed to be representing them, not the Cruse Lines. TAs know, however,
> that if they told you this you may not go so they keep their mouths shut.
My experience with travel agents is mostly limited to several business TAs
who book my business travel and American Express Platinum Travel Services,
who I use for fall-back when booking leisure travel. I honestly don't
expect my TAs to provide this kind of information. How to get the best
prices, which hotels are good, what sights might be worth seeing, yes, but
how not to get conned is, I think, beyond the scope for a TA.
As I say, given what you've told me about what the auctioneers claim, I have
_some_ greater sympathy for the victims. However, I can't imagine someone
spending $57,000 at an art auction (heck, I can't imagine HAVING $57,000 to
spend at an art auction ;) ) without knowing exactly what was being bid on
and how much it was worth.
Henry Chimp304
GREAT!! Not any different than the casino as far as I'm concerned.
BOTW
I agree with you, but Paul, but your opinion is based on your previous
experience, knowledge and intelligence. The people that buy this crap are
the same people that think that a "all inclusive" 7 day Carnival cruise for
$299 is a deal. They're not rocket scientists and most of em have never
been out of the trailer park. They need protected from unscrupulous cruise
lines and travel agents. These are the people that invested in the Nigerian
$25,000,000 contract award and hope to hit the big powerball jackpot.
They look to their Travel Agent for guidance and get screwed.
I'm not a lawyer but I believe, that since the fraud did not occur in the US
it's not a criminal matter. I'm not sure what civil action one could take.
Maybe big George Leppla or Ray G. can offer some assistance as they're both
Master Cruse Counselor.
Paul
."Paul Tauger" <ptauger...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:abh4ee$i1ino$1...@ID-101118.news.dfncis.de...
sue and kevin mullen
BOTW wrote:
>
> Paul
>
> You hit the nail on the head. That's almost exactly how the cruise ship
> auctioneers start the bidding -- "this painting is valued at $10,000 but
> we'll start the bidding at $500".
>
> Yes it is fraud and would be actionable IF it was done in the US and covered
> by federal and state law. Since, however, the crime occurs on the high
> seas, these laws don't apply
It is not fraud and they use the same method on land and at sea. We have
been to many art auctions, on land and at sea, they tell you the
appraised value of the art work and then what the minimum opening bid
is.
Sue
BOTW
"N. Parker" <na...@bigsweeps.com> wrote in message
news:5616fbeb.02051...@posting.google.com...
sue and kevin mullen
"N. Parker" wrote:
>
> I have to disagree.....it isn't a TOTAL SCAM. Yes, 90% of the stuff
> is the same price as you could buy it on land (if not more). But if
> you're willing to do a little research you can really make out at
> these auctions. I always go to the pre-views, check out the pieces I
> want, then go to the internet cafe and look online to see what the
> items are selling for (e.g. Ebay completed auctions). It's paid off
> EVERY TIME for me. I've bought items for $1200 and as soon as I got
> home sold them for double or triple the price. I only buy what I
> would want to personally keep (in case I couldn't find a buyer). But
> you have to know what the market is for the items you are bidding on.
We also do our research before buying anything. We have gone to auctions
by several different auction houses, looked on the internet and looked
on E-bay. We have also talked to the auctioneers and many of the more
serious buyers. Our rules for buying artwork are that it is something
that we want to hang in our house and of couse something we can afford.
We have a couple of very expensive pcs that we could probably make a
good profit on, but we love them too much to sell.
> I would *not* recommend the auctions to the average person (or to
> someone who isn't internet savvy enough to research the stuff
> themselves). Yes - the average Joe can easily get ripped off at these
> things.
Anyone who buys art that they can not afford is a fool. We have learned
a lot about artwork, but still would not buy, just to sell. That is too
risky, at least for us.
> On my last cruise, there was a gallery owner (who really knew his
> stuff) who bought about $40,000 worth of art. He wasn't "big enough"
> to have exclusive deals with the artists and didn't want to risk his
> reputation buying stuff from estate sales. He goes on cruises once a
> month to stock his gallery and said he always doubles his money when
> he gets home.
I have seen this many times and have seen them spend much more.
sue
Chrissy Cruiser
wrote:
>Anybody who believes they are getting a deal at one of these auctions
>certainly deserves to be taken.
Aren't you a sweetie.
Chrissy Cruiser
>Sure you sold if for triple what you paid -- just like I'm an astronaut
Taking passengers?
Paul Tauger
> Paul,
>
> I agree with you, but Paul, but your opinion is based on your previous
> experience, knowledge and intelligence. The people that buy this crap are
> the same people that think that a "all inclusive" 7 day Carnival cruise
for
> $299 is a deal. They're not rocket scientists and most of em have never
> been out of the trailer park. They need protected from unscrupulous
cruise
> lines and travel agents. These are the people that invested in the
Nigerian
> $25,000,000 contract award and hope to hit the big powerball jackpot.
>
> They look to their Travel Agent for guidance and get screwed.
I don't know about that. There are a lot of Carnival cruisers in this ng,
and they don't sound stupid to me (well, most of 'em, that is). It would be
one thing if a TA says, "Oh, and be sure to check out the art auctions --
great deals!" But to simply not volunteer all the possible scams and cons?
Should the TA tell cruisers that the slots in the casino are sucker bets,
much worse than Vegas? There are some arcane things about cruising, and
I've seen good advice here about what category cabin to book, and how to go
about getting upgraded -- this is sophisticated stuff that only someone very
familiar with cruising would know. It is more than a little paternalistic,
though, to be told, "Don't believe the nice man with the microphone who
wants to sell you art," by your TA. That's not so much about travel as it
is about life.
BTW, I am a lawyer, I just haven't had time to look at the jurisidiction
question. I'll find out and post back here -- I suspect lots of folks would
like to know their rights vis-a-vis cruise lines and their vendor/partners.
j coulter
All in all what the art auctioneers say is not as bad IMHO as the jeweler
in your home town who sells a ring for $4,000 and then issues an appraisal
of the same ring for $9,000.
Miste...@webtv.net
>people .... assaulted on ship can not sue
Where'd you dream this up? Of course they can sue in US court. Douglas
Frantz' series of articles in the New York Times at the end of '99
torching the cruise industry (Sovereign Islands) used court records from
civil actions against the lines as a prime source of information. Many
actions were for assault. Shouldn't you stick to trolling and stop
assaulting the facts?
Jim
no.s...@here.com
<slin...@erols.com> wrote:
> But be on guard: With art auctions on cruise ships increasing, so are
> the opportunities for voyagers to overpay.
The whole cruise industry is nothing but a big scam built on the
backs of underpaid third world workers, designed to shill all you
sheeple out of all your money. Art auctions, casinos, overpriced
spas... all part of an industry built on greed and Barnum's Law.
George in NY
didn't get at least 1 carat of diamonds in your NY watch then I am sorry to
inform you that you may have been ripped off.
PS: Being from NY area I have been fortunate to come into possession of a
wonderful antique bridge which connects to a lovely garden spot called
Brooklyn. Normally this would be appraised at $800,000,000 but for this one
time only, because you are cruiseaholics, we will start the bidding at $9.95
George in NY
"Mike Cordelli" <mi...@cordelli.com> wrote in message
news:o2TC8.16507$0E1.88...@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
George in NY
counterfeiting, which can carry up to a 15-year prison sentence.>
If any oneof them gets more than 1 year I would be shocked. All jailtime in
custody, including day arrested and day discharged, count towards jailtime.
Automatic 1/3 off sentence for GOODTIME, being good while in prison which
basically means you didn't kill anyone while there.
Now obviously there are various levels of employee even in criminal
operations and they are compensated in varying degrees. Then just like every
organization there is original cost basis which is increased by costof sales
and so forth. So let's just guess a little, 125 million in merchandise,
let's say 100 million in profit. 100 divided 10 people, assuming equal
partnership, that's 10 million a piece TAXFREE BTW, or over a million a
month. Now of course theywere caught and property confiscated so in theory
they make nothing for this year, only the other 25 years they have been in
business.
The art, like the " genuine " Rolexs on 42nd street for $10, they wouldn't
be all over selling this junk if there wasn't a hoard of people buying them.
How many people buying anti-fat pills out there? Do any of them really
believe that if someone had a pill that worked they would have to have hour
infomercials and full page ads proclaiming money back guarentees? Show me
the person with a real skinny pill and I'll show you the person that will
make Bill Gates look like a pauper.
George in NY
"steinbrenner" <steinb...@freedom.net> wrote in message
news:cG9uZGVydGU=.e92a32cce69f45daefbc3cfd7dcc940c@1021052609.cotse.net...
> Mike Cordelli wrote:
>
> > You are 100 percent correct, those people are being ripped off, as
> > those watches are available all over New York for $20 each.
> >
> > Funny nobody tries to shut them down
>
>
> Big watch raid yesterday in Chinatown....
>
>
> http://www.wnbc.com/news/1450900/detail.html
>
> NEW YORK -- Police raided a maze of hidden tunnels under several
Tom & Linda
on the backs of underpaid third world workers...
--Tom <---- has US made NewBalance sneakers
Mason Barge
1) Right click
2) "filters"
3) "global kill"
4) "delete"
Woohoo, another one bites the dust!
<---- still like a kid at Christmas with his new toy
--
Mason Barge
"People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like."
-- Abraham Lincoln
Michael O'Kane
Lee Schwartzberg
UCLAm...@webtv.net (Henry Chimp304) wrote:
> If it helps to subsidies the ship and keeps the price of cruising down
> GREAT!! Not any different than the casino as far as I'm concerned.
I agree. Attending an art auction on board ship is entirely voluntary.
Somehow, I've managed to go on five cruises without ever having stepped
foot into an art auction. If the cruise line making money through these
auctions helps to keep my fare down, I'm all for it.
As is the case in life off of a ship as well, buyer beware. No one is
forced to place a bid, or to spend more than they should. To do so is
stupid. TAs can't posibly be expected to protect clients from their own
foolishness. These people will make poor decisions regarding money on a
cruise and when they're home. People need to take responsiblity for their
actions! To consider suing a cruise line for a bad investment decision
that you made all by yourself, is just ridiculous. When the buyers are at
the auction voluntarily, how can this be considered a scam? They are
knowingly spending their money - it's their decision to do so, regardless
of how foolish that decision is.
I was always under the impression that to be scammed, you had to be an
unkowning participant in the scam. Attendance at art auctions is not
mandatory. Don't want to risk being ripped off? Don't attend the auctions.
Seems pretty simple to me.
As many people have stated, when you buy art, your first priority should
be that you're buying it because you love the piece, and want to live with
it in your home forever. Only if you've really done your research, and
know what the true market potential is, should you buy a piece of art for
investment purposes. I'm a pretty conservative investor - I can't imagine
buying a work of art for the purpose of making money off of it. But, I'm
happy to buy artwork for the enjoyment it brings (at galleries, shows,
etc.). I'll let my other investments pay for my occasional forays into art
acquisition.
Art auctions on ships, like the casinos, are there for entertainment
value. Anyone who attends an auction or enters a casino, for the purpose
of making money, is setting themselves up for disappointment, and
(depending on your own personal control) potential financial crisis.
Lee
Mason Barge
>On Sat, 11 May 2002 00:05:22 -0800, no.s...@here.com wrote:
>
>>The whole cruise industry
[PLONK]
>I wonder why our alaskan buddy posts under fake names?
>
>Who could respect an opinion from some who doesn't have
>any respect for themselves?
Lee -- This is not in any way, shape or form intended to be critical.
Just remember, repeating a post like this in a response, well, repeats
it.
Best is just to ignore it. If you really want to respond, consider
snipping the original. I only say this because I feel a sentiment to
"clean up" the Newsgroup, and the only way I can see to do it is to
isolate this kind of troll.
Travlmapa
Dee
>I agree. Attending an art auction on board ship is entirely voluntary.
>
>As is the case in life off of a ship as well, buyer beware. No one is
>forced to place a bid, or to spend more than they should. To do so is
>stupid. When the buyers are at
>the auction voluntarily, how can this be considered a scam? They are
>knowingly spending their money - it's their decision to do so, regardless
>of how foolish that decision is.
>
>I was always under the impression that to be scammed, you had to be an
>unkowning participant in the scam. Attendance at art auctions is not
>mandatory. Don't want to risk being ripped off? Don't attend the auctions.
>Seems pretty simple to me.
>
>As many people have stated, when you buy art, your first priority should
>be that you're buying it because you love the piece, and want to live with
>it in your home forever. Only if you've really done your research, and
>know what the true market potential is, should you buy a piece of art for
>investment purposes. I'm a pretty conservative investor - I can't imagine
>buying a work of art for the purpose of making money off of it. But, I'm
>happy to buy artwork for the enjoyment it brings (at galleries, shows,
>etc.). I'll let my other investments pay for my occasional forays into art
>acquisition
Live and Love to travel.
BOTW
"Lee Lindquist" <n...@2.spam> wrote in message
news:pr1qduovvb1qbn2q0...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 11 May 2002 00:05:22 -0800, no.s...@here.com wrote:
>
> >The whole cruise industry is nothing but a big scam built on the
> >backs of underpaid third world workers, designed to shill all you
> >sheeple out of all your money. Art auctions, casinos, overpriced
> >spas... all part of an industry built on greed and Barnum's Law.
>
> I wonder why our alaskan buddy posts under fake names?
>
> Who could respect an opinion from some who doesn't have
> any respect for themselves?
>
> --
> - Lee
Brett Z.
> experience, knowledge and intelligence. The people that buy this crap are
> the same people that think that a "all inclusive" 7 day Carnival cruise for
> $299 is a deal. They're not rocket scientists and most of em have never
> been out of the trailer park.
I am one of those unintelligent, unsophisticated, uneducated cruisers.
Even I don't fall for the art auctions. I also understand that a
cruise can be much more expensive than the advertised price.
While cruising on lines other than Carnival, I've noticed some
educated, sophisticated people buying art. I wonder what's up with
that? Shouldn't they - being so highly educated - know better?
I must admit, I do attend the art auctions. I'll let you in on a
little something I learned while living in the trailer park: never
pass up an opportunity for free champagne, even if it is a bit warm.
Just don't get a number or scratch your nose.
Recently upgraded from trailer to apartment...and saving for my next
$299 Carnival cruise,
Brett Z.
Tom & Linda
"Brett Z." wrote:
>
>
> I am one of those unintelligent, unsophisticated, uneducated cruisers.
> Even I don't fall for the art auctions. I also understand that a
> cruise can be much more expensive than the advertised price.
>
> While cruising on lines other than Carnival, I've noticed some
> educated, sophisticated people buying art. I wonder what's up with
> that? Shouldn't they - being so highly educated - know better?
>
> I must admit, I do attend the art auctions. I'll let you in on a
> little something I learned while living in the trailer park: never
> pass up an opportunity for free champagne, even if it is a bit warm.
>
Alcohol kills brain cells. If you're going to sacrifice brain cells...
at least do it with COLD champagne.
--Tom
BOTW
Which wall did you hang your genuine Renoir painting on? The short one
above the Dale Earnhart memorial or the long one above the Elvis shrine?
Paul
"Brett Z." <brett...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e7f972b8.02051...@posting.google.com...
Mason Barge
<stephan....@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>On Sat, 11 May 2002 09:00:34 -0400, while the Captain of the mv
>Perfecto was guiding her to her next port, Mason Barge
><masonbar...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>1) Right click
>>2) "filters"
>>3) "global kill"
>>4) "delete"
>>
>
>Hey Mason, the keyboard shortcut is Ctrl-K, FYI. Isn't Agent a
>wonderful thing?
>
>Stephan in Burlington <----loves Forte Agent.
It really makes me wonder what all those people are talking about,
when they complain of the nastiness on rec.travel.cruises. :) Thanks
for the tip.
Brett Z.
> Brett,
>
> Which wall did you hang your genuine Renoir painting on? The short one
> above the Dale Earnhart memorial or the long one above the Elvis shrine?
>
> Paul
Paul,
That was pretty good! hehehheee!
But no, I didn't pop for a Renoir (or any other painting). :)
Brett Z.