Monarch of the Seas hits reef in st Maarten
div...@megatropic.com
Monarch of the Seas hits reef in St Maarten, saved from sinking.
The Monarch or the Seas hit into Lil'Bank, known as "The Maze" one hundred
yards North of Proselyte reef early Tuesday December 15th, ripping holes into
the hull and forcing the evacuation of her 2 557 passengers. Only one hour
before the accident, the ship had sailed into Philipsburg's Great Bay to
allow for the disembarking of a patient in serious condition. What exactly
caused the vessel, which visits St Maarten every Friday, to subsequently run
into the well charted coral reef Lil' Bank close to Proselyte reef marked by
a well functioning light,is not yet known. Underwater video recordings show
that the ship's hull sustained a series of gaping holes over a length of 150
yards when colliding with the hard reef. The vessel immediately began to take
on water in 3 of its 18 watertights compartments. The captain immediately
asked for assistance .Owner of Bobby's marina Bobby Velasquez, helped direct
the Liner back into Great Bay. The ship was then allowed to run into a soft
sand bank, where it stabilized at 2:30am. Immediately after the ship had been
safely berthed on the sandbank, the evacuation of passengers was started .
Equipped with life jackets, the well over 2500 people were ferried to shore
by local boats. Within hours the passengers were all provided with
accomodation in hotels of both the Dutch and the French side of the island.
As there had been no time to collect any luggage and in most cases not even
personal papers such as credit cards, the cruise tourists were provided with
cash money. Spokesman for the vessel's company Royal caribbean Cruises,, Lynn
Martenstein in Miami, said all passengers will be refunded and given a
certificate for a future cruise. The ship's staff was working hard Tuesday
night to reunite passengers with their luggage. Martenstein said the company
had chartered 12 planes to fly the 2557 people back to the USA.
It is the second time in a year that a cruise ship hits Mike's Maze. On
December 8th 97,The Horizon, a Carnival Cruise line boat hit the same reef.
Damages to the reef from that ship are still very noticeable.
To what extent a damage claim against Caribbean cruise lines will be pursued
is as yet uncertain. Measurements of the damages sustained by the reef taken
Wednesday will yield more information to underpin such a decision, according
to Director of St Maarten's Nature Foundation Marjolijn Richardson.
Hello,
I did not get your name, but saw your post on the rec.travel.cruises News
Group. THANK YOU for pointing out that this ship has not just hit "rocks" as
the reports first indicated. This cruise line has also been fined for dumping
oil in the ocean as well. I urge all travelers to BOYCOTT this cruise line, as
they seem to have no respect for the oceans they sail on. I hope the Govt. of
St M. fines them into bankpuptcy, and uses the funds for conservation efforts.
Many people are unaware that coral reefs take many hundreds of years to form
and that events like this are catastrophic. Geez, if she sunk, she would have
made one hell of a wreck dive though huh? I hope and pray that the damage can
be minimized and they get that piece of junk off your reef.
For updated information, visit http://www.stmaartendiving.com or email
Dominique.
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Linda B. Dunlap
that is old news, something that happened years(?) ago with the legal part
just coming to a conclusion.
However, the part about RCCL being sued for hitting the reef made me wonder
about something. Aren't there always local pilots on board when ships enter
these areas? Or is this reef far outside the area controlled by the Harbor
people? I do know that the ultimate authority on the ship is the Captain,
but aren't the pilots responsible, too?
Jean Lissenden
I can tell you that a pilot is on board when the ship is starting her
approach the harbor, whether that is 1/2 or 1 hour before. It depends
on the waters, weather and general traffic conditions.
Jean
fis...@mindspring.com
>However, the part about RCCL being sued for hitting the reef made me wonder
>about something. Aren't there always local pilots on board when ships enter
>these areas? Or is this reef far outside the area controlled by the Harbor
>people? I do know that the ultimate authority on the ship is the Captain,
>but aren't the pilots responsible, too?
That's what I've been trying to find out also. The harbor pilot is in
charge of navigating the vessel into and out of the harbor - the small
boat that chases you after you've left port is coming to pick up the
pilot - and, although the captain of the Monarch was ultimately in
charge, if the harbor pilot was on the bridge, then HIS insurance
covers the considerable damages for repairs and customer satisfaction.
I'm not sure who pays the fines for reef damage, but again, if the
harbor pilot was in control, I would guess it to be a large chunk
coming out of their Lloyd's of London account!
I'm also waiting to hear how amny cruises will be cancelled - two
weeks doesn't seem feasible to repair that size of a hole beneath the
water line!
Chris
Fuzz111393
fis...@mindspring.com wrote:
>That's what I've been trying to find out also. The harbor pilot is in
>charge of navigating the vessel into and out of the harbor - the small
>boat that chases you after you've left port is coming to pick up the
>pilot - and, although the captain of the Monarch was ultimately in
>charge, if the harbor pilot was on the bridge, then HIS insurance
>covers the considerable damages for repairs and customer satisfaction.
>I'm not sure who pays the fines for reef damage, but again, if the
>harbor pilot was in control, I would guess it to be a large chunk
>coming out of their Lloyd's of London account!
I would love to know where all of the "experts" get their information on
subjects like this. As a Master Mariner and Ship's Master I would be quite
relieved to have all of this additional insurance coverage and protection while
doing one of the most delicate parts of the job.
Where I was born there is a term called "hangashore" used to discribe the
know-it-alls that sit on the pier and watch the ships go out but have never
done the job themselves. But if you listen to the the have been there, done it
and have the tee shirt to wear.
Just once I would like to see them do the job as well as they are able to
critique the performance of others.
I've heard it all and seen little to back it up.
Dave
Scott Hale
>
> On 16 Dec 1998 22:59:23 GMT, fuzz1...@aol.com (Fuzz111393) wrote:
>
> >Just once I would like to see them do the job as well as they are able to
> >critique the performance of others.
> >
> >I've heard it all and seen little to back it up.
> >
> >Dave
>
> as to elucidate me, then - my information comes from old sailors.
> What does the pilot do, when does his responsibility end and whose
> insurance covers whom? I accused no one, I was just wondering - was
> the pilot on the bridge?
>
> Chris
It was my understanding if the pilot is on the bridge and the ship in
within the harbor the PILOT has full and complete control. I know for
sure that is true for Pamana canal transits; captain has zero control
over navigation and positioning.
Shale
T1543
>critique the performance of others.
You may have a valid point. But I would like to see a knowledgeable mariner
offer an opinion on what likely happened here, regardless of whether the
ship'scaptain or a harbor pilot had control.
Even amateur sailors like myself who have sailed the waters around
Phililpsburg's Groot Baai are put on notice of the dangers near Proselyte Reef
where this accident happened. Standard sailing guides warn charter sailboats
approaching the Bay from the south or departing southbound to give that
particular reef and adjacent reefs wide berth. I believe today there is even a
warning marker.
At first it might seem harsh for the responsible party to get a whopping
penalty for what happened. .After all, it was an accident. But in the
absence of some plausible explanation it sure looks like a case of pure
carelessness. Facially, somebody cut too close to a well known danger to make
up for lost time caused by the boat having been diverted to St. Maarten due to
a passenger's illness.
T.
fis...@mindspring.com
>Just once I would like to see them do the job as well as they are able to
>critique the performance of others.
>
Ray Goldenberg
wrote:
>It was my understanding if the pilot is on the bridge and the ship in
>within the harbor the PILOT has full and complete control.
Hi Scott,
In almost, if not every case that I am aware of the Master is
responsible. Sadly, these types of events usually end in the Master
being discharged from his position with the cruise line. I even know
of one case where the Master was on-shore and an officer was moving a
ship and an incident happened. Yep, the Captain was fired over it.
Awake, asleep, at dinner, attending Captain's reception, it is my
understanding that the Master is always responsible.
Best regards,
Ray
LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL
800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905
http://www.lighthousetravel.com
mike cordelli
how this works (at least sometimes) to us. The local Pilot is there to
offer advice, but not to control the ship. He also mentioned he collects a
fair amount of money for his services. The example he used was when we were
leaving LA the pilot refused to allow them to go under the bridge to turn
around, because the rear mast was too high (even though they have gone under
the bridge at that tide level before). The capt did a U turn off the dock
(and a very impressive one), but it was the ships officers, not the pilot
controlling the movements of the ship.
As to the second point, the junior officer said the same thing. Even if the
Capt is sleeping and something goes wrong it is still his fault. I forget
the example he gave us, but while it doesn't seem fair, guess that's why he
makes the big bucks.
Ray Goldenberg wrote in message <36788059...@news.newsguy.com>...
Ray Goldenberg
wrote:
>The local Pilot is there to
>offer advice, but not to control the ship.
Hi Mike,
I believe you are correct. I have been on the bridge numerous times
during departures and arrivals. I have never seen the pilot do
anything but offer suggestions to the Master. I am not saying that
they don't sometimes do otherwise but I have not observed it.
Mini BAC
In article <36786995...@news.mindspring.com>, fis...@mindspring.com
writes:
>On 16 Dec 1998 22:59:23 GMT, fuzz1...@aol.com (Fuzz111393) wrote:
>
>>Just once I would like to see them do the job as well as they are able to
>>critique the performance of others.
>>
>>I've heard it all and seen little to back it up.
>>
>>Dave
>
>My, but you are rude, and so close to the holidays.
Please point out to me where the poster was rude.......I've re-read
his post several times and can't seem to find it.
Thank you
Mini BAC
In article <75a4m7$a...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, "mike cordelli"
<mi...@cordelli.com> writes:
> The local Pilot is there to
>offer advice, but not to control the ship.
"Local Knowledge" is priceless.
Just north of 17th Street Causeway in Fort Lauderdale is a heavy
traffic area on the water. I've seen a boater try to avoid the traffic
and just go straight towards the Lauderdale yacht club instead of
using the channel markers. Not being familiar with local waters,
he didn't realize that cutting the corner meant ripping the bottom
out on the submerged rocks.
When the tide is out, the birds stand in two areas where careless
boaters have ended up high and dry til the incoming rescues them.
Charts can't be printed fast enough to keep up with waterway
changes thus the advantage of having someone onboard with
"local knowledge", like a port pilot on a cruise ship.
Barbara <----Hubby calls me Captain Barb
Fred Lanyard
>I believe you are correct. I have been on the bridge numerous times
>during departures and arrivals. I have never seen the pilot do
>anything but offer suggestions to the Master. I am not saying that
>they don't sometimes do otherwise but I have not observed it.
Sorry to be redundant but in a post above I heartily agree with Ray
based on a conversation with the Master of the Norwegian Dynasty. In
case you missed that one, the gist is that the pilot only offers
advice and does not control the ship. Further, the job of pilot is
often a political appointment given out in many ports to family of the
governing officials and is not necessarily a hard earned job. This was
relayed by the Captain of a ship of course and is his version.
Regards,
Fred Lanyard
CRUISE VALUE CENTER
Toll Free(888)735-SHIP Residence:(732)636-0938
Russell Hill
>It was my understanding if the pilot is on the bridge and the ship in
>sure that is true for Pamana canal transits; captain has zero control
>over navigation and positioning.
>
>Shale
Not necessarily true. It used to be while the pilots were Americans, but
now that the Panamanians have taken over the level of piloting has
dropped, and many Captains retain control. I went through about this
time last year, and the pilot jus about caused us to colide with another
ship.
He Captain took over control and ordered the pilot off the bridge, and
radioed the Canal Authority what he had done, that he wanted the pilot
removed immediately, and that he would not accept another pilot.
Russell
Scott Hale
>
> On Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:33:13 -0800, Scott Hale <Sh...@pacbell.net>
> wrote:
>
> >within the harbor the PILOT has full and complete control.
>
>
> In almost, if not every case that I am aware of the Master is
> responsible. Sadly, these types of events usually end in the Master
> being discharged from his position with the cruise line. I even know
> of one case where the Master was on-shore and an officer was moving a
> ship and an incident happened. Yep, the Captain was fired over it.
> Awake, asleep, at dinner, attending Captain's reception, it is my
> understanding that the Master is always responsible.
>
> Ray
> LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL
> 800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905
> http://www.lighthousetravel.com
with Panama Canal transits being the primary exception. Pilot is in
total and complete control with the "master" not doing a lot.
Shale
CGCMJul
your silly posting
cta...@planeteer.com
fuzz1...@aol.com (Fuzz111393) wrote:
> >On 12/16/98 5:06 PM Eastern Standard Time
> fis...@mindspring.com wrote:
> >That's what I've been trying to find out also. The harbor pilot is in
> >charge of navigating the vessel into and out of the harbor - the small
> >boat that chases you after you've left port is coming to pick up the
> >pilot - and, although the captain of the Monarch was ultimately in
> >charge, if the harbor pilot was on the bridge, then HIS insurance
> >covers the considerable damages for repairs and customer satisfaction.
> >I'm not sure who pays the fines for reef damage, but again, if the
> >harbor pilot was in control, I would guess it to be a large chunk
> >coming out of their Lloyd's of London account!
>
> I would love to know where all of the "experts" get their information on
> subjects like this. As a Master Mariner and Ship's Master I would be quite
> relieved to have all of this additional insurance coverage and protection
while
> doing one of the most delicate parts of the job.
>
> Where I was born there is a term called "hangashore" used to discribe the
> know-it-alls that sit on the pier and watch the ships go out but have never
> done the job themselves. But if you listen to the the have been there, done
it
> and have the tee shirt to wear.
>
> critique the performance of others.
>
> I've heard it all and seen little to back it up.
>
> Dave
>
Right On Dave! I have not read or heard much about this particular
grounding, and I couldn't bother to without knowing what happened. Too often
the wannabes on the jetty say 'how come, and why didn't, and I would have...'
when they had absolutely no idea what was going on out there and are so far
off they sounded like fools. Wouldn't it be nice to be a Master and be able
to engage the fantasy that someone else will pick up the tab for any
casualty... then Masters wouldn't be facing millions in oil pollution fines
and years in prison (worst case mind you) for something someone else could
cause at any time .... when things on the bridge get hairy the armchair
experts are nowhere to be found, but they STILL have a lot to say about it
later!. All the best to you. CM