Re: Physics Professor's Peer Reviewed Paper on WTC CONTROLLED DEMOLITIONS on 9/11
Darkwing
"TRUTH" <TR...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9772CA5...@130.81.64.196...
> Tenured Physics Professor Steven E Jones gave two seminars to hundreds of
> people on WTC controlled demolitions and how the government's version of
> events "defies physics". The Feb 1st seminar can be viewed on Google
> Video, or downloaded to your computer.
>
>
> The following is a excerpt from Jones' PEER REVIEWED paper:
>
> "I presented my objections to the "official" theory at a seminar at BYU
> on September 22, 2005, to about sixty people. I also showed evidence and
> scientific arguments for the controlled demolition theory. In attendance
> were faculty from Physics, Mechanical Engineering, Civil Engineering,
> Electrical Engineering, Psychology, Geology, and Mathematics - and
> perhaps other departments as I did not recognize all of the people
> present. A local university and college were represented (BYU and Utah
> Valley State College).
>
> The discussion was vigorous and lasted nearly two hours. It ended only
> when a university class needed the room. After presenting the material
> summarized here, including actually looking at and discussing the
> collapses of WTC 7 and the Towers, only one attendee disagreed (by hand-
> vote) that further investigation of the WTC collapses was called for.
> The next day, the dissenting professor said he had further thought about
> it and now agreed that more investigation was needed."
>
>
>
> Professor Jones now has dozens of people suporting him. His finding are
> based on scientific evidence and logical reasoning.
>
> In other words, you won't find any people using terms like kook, tin foil
> hat, or any other childish terms. The people who understand his
> scientific evidence are clear minded and not closed asshole headed like a
> lot of people in this newsgroup seem to be. You people are pathetic.
>
>
> You stupid people don't know anything about anything when it comes to
> 9/11.
>
> The airplanes were flown by remote control. The events were for the
> purpose of building public support to invade Afghanistan and Iraq. Some
> of you will still deny this fact. If so, it will be because your thinking
> process is too much filled with tin foil hat commments, and you're too
> stupid and brainwashed to understand real evidence
So when Atta come over the ATC frequency on accident instead of the onboard
PA that was just all computer controlled? What about the people on the
planes who said that they seen the hijackers enter the cockpit while on the
phones to their families? I guess all this "data" doesn't fit into the grand
conspiracy that you have cooked up.
Let's see. Muslim terrorists hijack airliners and crash then into buildings
because they can't get away from the death cult of Islam OR the goobermint
faked it all to start an unpopular war where nothing has been gained. Gee
that is a toughy.
-------------------------------------------
DW
TRUTH
http://www.911blogger.com/2006/02/dr-steven-jones-utah-seminar-video.html
Scholars for 9/11 Truth
http://st911.org
Watch the day-long Congressional Briefing on the 9/11 coverup taped and
aired by C-SPAN:
http://www.question911.com/links.php
TRUTH
news:JPGdnVugpN7...@giganews.com:
As I said before, the telephone calls were all faked, using new voice
synthesizer technology.
When was the last you called your mom and told her your last name?
"Mom, this is Mark Bingham"
http://www.thewebfairy.com/killtown/chart.html
>
> Let's see. Muslim terrorists hijack airliners and crash then into
> buildings because they can't get away from the death cult of Islam OR
> the goobermint faked it all to start an unpopular war where nothing
> has been gained. Gee that is a toughy.
>
> -------------------------------------------
> DW
>
I'm sorry, but the evil doers are in our own government
Jim Logajan
> Tenured Physics Professor Steven E Jones gave two seminars to hundreds
> of people on WTC controlled demolitions and how the government's
> version of events "defies physics". The Feb 1st seminar can be viewed
> on Google Video, or downloaded to your computer.
>
>
> The following is a excerpt from Jones' PEER REVIEWED paper:
1) It was NOT peer reviewed.
2) The URL of his paper: http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
> Professor Jones now has dozens of people suporting him. His finding
> are based on scientific evidence and logical reasoning.
Jones is not a qualified building engineer. He has repeatedly founded
elaborate theories on tiny bits of evidence. For example, he also
believes that Jesus Christ visited ancient America:
http://www.physics.byu.edu/faculty/jones/rel491/handstext%20and%20figures.htm
You and Jones both make the mistake of starting from a conclusion and
selecting facts that support it while ignoring those that don't. The next
step you take is to assume, incorrectly, that attacking someone elses
explanation X automatically makes your explanation Y the correct answer.
TRUTH
news:Xns9772B36D6CFA...@216.168.3.30:
Yes, hius paper was peer reviewed. Perhaps if you look into it instead of
jumping to wild half baked conclusions (being the government's absurd)
version, you'd see it.
Chad Irby
TRUTH <TR...@nospam.com> wrote:
> Tenured Physics Professor Steven E Jones gave two seminars to hundreds of
> people on WTC controlled demolitions and how the government's version of
> events "defies physics". The Feb 1st seminar can be viewed on Google
> Video, or downloaded to your computer.
>
>
> The following is a excerpt from Jones' PEER REVIEWED paper:
...and the rest of the faculty at his university and in his department
say:
"Professor Jones零 department and college administrators are not
convinced that his analyses and hypotheses have been submitted to
relevant scientific venues that would ensure rigorous technical peer
review. The structural engineering faculty in the Fulton College of
Engineering and Technology do not support the hypotheses of Professor
Jones."
TRUTH
therefore qualified to determine if the government's version defies
physics. And since his paper, and the 150 people in st911.org, use science,
and not kooky proofless boxcutter nonsense, they can see that the WTC was
taken down by controled demolitions. So can anyone else who looks at the
information I posted.
Darkwing
The people on the other end sure seemed to be convinced they were talking to
their loved ones. Your "facts" are utter bullshit. How convenient that we
have new voice synthesizer technology. The government is to incompetent to
do anything close to this magnitude.
----------------------------------------------
DW
Darkwing
"Chad Irby" <ci...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:cirby-35F25A....@news-server1.tampabay.rr.com...
Next he will be taking on stem cells with renowned South Korean
microbiologist.....
------------------------------------------
DW
khobar
> people on WTC controlled demolitions and how the government's version of
> events "defies physics". The Feb 1st seminar can be viewed on Google
> Video, or downloaded to your computer.
>
>
> The following is a excerpt from Jones' PEER REVIEWED paper:
>
> on September 22, 2005, to about sixty people. I also showed evidence and
> scientific arguments for the controlled demolition theory. In attendance
> were faculty from Physics, Mechanical Engineering, Civil Engineering,
> Electrical Engineering, Psychology, Geology, and Mathematics - and
> perhaps other departments as I did not recognize all of the people
> present. A local university and college were represented (BYU and Utah
> Valley State College).
>
> The discussion was vigorous and lasted nearly two hours. It ended only
> when a university class needed the room. After presenting the material
> summarized here, including actually looking at and discussing the
> collapses of WTC 7 and the Towers, only one attendee disagreed (by hand-
> vote) that further investigation of the WTC collapses was called for.
> The next day, the dissenting professor said he had further thought about
> it and now agreed that more investigation was needed."
>
>
>
> Professor Jones now has dozens of people suporting him. His finding are
> based on scientific evidence and logical reasoning.
Wow...dozens of supporters.
I'm convinced.
Paul Nixon
TRUTH
Umm.. no they weren't. Some of them stated that they did not act like
their loved ones. The government version of 9/11 is utter bullshit. There
are no facts to back them up.
Here are some 9/11 FACTS. They are indisputable. You disagree? Prove it.
Believe me, you won't be able to.
FACT: Never before in world history has a steel framed building
completely collapsed from fire. Not before 9/11, not after 9/11.
Never!
FACT: WTC 7 was ***NOT*** hit by an airplane!
FACT: WTC 7 collapsed from "fire and debris", according to the government
FACT: The WTC 7 collapse mimicked controlled demolition, as did the
Towers. They all collapsed almost symmetrically, near free fall speed,
into their own footprints.
FACT: There were small puffs of smoke (known as squibs) coming out of
all three buildings, a sign of controlled demolitions.
FACT: Explosives expert Van Romero said just days after 9/11 that he
could tell all three buildings collapsed from controlled demolition just
by watching the video footage
FACT: Romero recanted just a few days later without giving any scientific
explanation as to why. He was then promoted.
FACT: WTC 7 leaseholder Larry Silverstein bought a 99 yr lease on the
entire WTC complex just six weeks before 9/11, which just happened to
include terrorist attack insurance
FACT: The structural engineer that worked for Silverstein's insurance
company told the Discovery Channel that the Towers' massive vertical
columns all failed simultaneously, and mimicked controlled demolition
FACT: Silverstein said WTC7 was "pulled" on a PBS documentary
FACT: In that same documentary, a construction worker used the word
"pull" as slang for "professionally demolish"
FACT: The WTC7 fire alarm was put into "test mode" the morning of 9/11
FACT: Silverstein was absent from his 88th floor office in the North
Tower on the morning of 9/11 due to a "doctors appointment"
FACT: Over a hundred witnesses have made statements of explosions
FACT: The FBI was going under the assumption that bombs were in the
buildings.
FACT: The FDNY Chief Of Safely told an NBC reporter there might be a
secondary device in the building
FACT: FDNY personnel (including Fire Commissioners, Fire Marshals,
Captains, and Lieutenants) reported flashes, bombs, and explosions
that they compared to controlled demolitions.
FACT: Many of the FDNY personnel above stated that controlled demolition
was their gut instinct.
FACT: The NIST investigators made the assumption that collapse initiation
would "inevitably" lead to global collapse, despite the fact that it
never happened before in world history.
FACT: The NIST investigators performed little analysis of the structural
behavior of the Towers following collapse initiation
FACT: The NIST investigators altered the data for their computer
simulations
FACT: The NIST investigators refuse to show their computer simulation
model despite calls from leading structural and fire engineers.
Jim Logajan
> Yes, hius paper was peer reviewed.
By what journal?
TRUTH
Jim Logajan
> Jones does not need to be a building engineer. He's a physicist and is
> therefore qualified to determine if the government's version defies
> physics.
So? I have a physics degree too.
Why do you listen to Jones and not the people with physics and engineering
degrees who wrote the reports that contradict Jones' theory? If you were
really objective, you'd consider their analysis too. You'd quote from them
equally and contrast the explanations yourself. But my guess is that you
don't have the technical background to do that, so you are using subjective
criteria that leads you to unfounded beliefs.
Darkwing
No building has ever had a terrorist fly a completely loaded B757 into it
either.
>
> FACT: WTC 7 was ***NOT*** hit by an airplane!
Falling debris took that down.
>
> FACT: WTC 7 collapsed from "fire and debris", according to the government
Good call.
>
> FACT: The WTC 7 collapse mimicked controlled demolition, as did the
> Towers. They all collapsed almost symmetrically, near free fall speed,
> into their own footprints.
It fell after the damage finally took its toll, big whoop.
>
> FACT: There were small puffs of smoke (known as squibs) coming out of
> all three buildings, a sign of controlled demolitions.
That is the levels pancaking on top of one another, the building didn't
simply "fall over".
>
> FACT: Explosives expert Van Romero said just days after 9/11 that he
> could tell all three buildings collapsed from controlled demolition just
> by watching the video footage
There are plenty of "experts" that are wrong.
>
> FACT: Romero recanted just a few days later without giving any scientific
> explanation as to why. He was then promoted.
>
And.....
> FACT: WTC 7 leaseholder Larry Silverstein bought a 99 yr lease on the
> entire WTC complex just six weeks before 9/11, which just happened to
> include terrorist attack insurance
That was not the first time the WTC had been terrorist attacked, DUH!
>
> FACT: The structural engineer that worked for Silverstein's insurance
> company told the Discovery Channel that the Towers' massive vertical
> columns all failed simultaneously, and mimicked controlled demolition
>
Mimicked doesn't mean is.
> FACT: Silverstein said WTC7 was "pulled" on a PBS documentary
>
They decided to not try and save it, once again big whoop.
> FACT: In that same documentary, a construction worker used the word
> "pull" as slang for "professionally demolish"
See above.
>
> FACT: The WTC7 fire alarm was put into "test mode" the morning of 9/11
>
And this could of been standard issue or bad timing, happens every day.
> FACT: Silverstein was absent from his 88th floor office in the North
> Tower on the morning of 9/11 due to a "doctors appointment"
>
Oh my god he went to the doctor???!
> FACT: Over a hundred witnesses have made statements of explosions
>
All sorts of shit was going crazy, eyewitness testimony is notoriously
BOGUS.
> FACT: The FBI was going under the assumption that bombs were in the
> buildings.
>
As well they should in any kind of terrorist incident.
> FACT: The FDNY Chief Of Safely told an NBC reporter there might be a
> secondary device in the building
MIGHT doesn't mean WAS.
>
> FACT: FDNY personnel (including Fire Commissioners, Fire Marshals,
> Captains, and Lieutenants) reported flashes, bombs, and explosions
> that they compared to controlled demolitions.
>
Once again it doesn't prove shit.
> FACT: Many of the FDNY personnel above stated that controlled demolition
> was their gut instinct.
>
See above. Experts are wrong a lot.
> FACT: The NIST investigators made the assumption that collapse initiation
> would "inevitably" lead to global collapse, despite the fact that it
> never happened before in world history.
When 30% of the upper part of a high rise building has tons of JetA on fire
as well as office equipment and more on fire it is no wonder that the
buildings couldn't take that weight and structual damage.
>
> FACT: The NIST investigators performed little analysis of the structural
> behavior of the Towers following collapse initiation
>
The building fell down and the reason was pretty fucking easy to see, fully
loaded jets heading aross the country full of Jet A hit the building at high
speed and exploded. Doesn't take a rocket scientist.
> FACT: The NIST investigators altered the data for their computer
> simulations
>
Says the conspiracy nut....
> FACT: The NIST investigators refuse to show their computer simulation
> model despite calls from leading structural and fire engineers.
Bullshit.
TRUTH
You're making the assumption that people have been proving Jones wrong.
That is not true. If you know otherwise, please prove it.
I do not have a physics/engineering degree, but do have a technical
background, and definitely have an abundance of common sense.
Look at the info in my other posts. If you have a physics degree, I
challenge you to read Jones' paper and demonstrate that anything that he
has to say to be false.
Are you aware these NIST facts?
FACT: The NIST investigators made the assumption that collapse initiation
would "inevitably" lead to global collapse, despite the fact that it never
happened before in world history.
FACT: The NIST investigators performed little analysis of the structural
behavior of the Towers following collapse initiation
FACT: The NIST investigators altered the data for their computer
simulations
FACT: The NIST investigators refuse to show their computer simulation model
Darkwing
> Jim Logajan <Jam...@Lugoj.com> wrote in
> According to BYU's website, it has not been properly submitted yet. But
> once enought people can't on, it defintely will be. The 9/11 Truth
> Movement
> has been growing very rapidy. Especially the past 6 months or so, with all
> the evidence and prominent people speaking up
Oh so now the TRUTH comes out. Peer reviewed means journal, EVERYONE knows
this so take your meds and quit posting this shit in our nice little news
group where we talk about small little airplanes.
--------------------------------------------
DW
Darkwing
> silly conspiracy theories. Doing this is a predetermination of where
> you're beliefs will be. You cannot argue with science. And if you dispute
> it, you obviously didn't look into it
You're right I can't argue with GOOD science, show me some good REAL science
that is falsifiable and you're on. I HAVE looked into the 9/11 conspiracys
and they are all bullshit.
-----------------------------------------------
DW
Darkwing
I did.
----------------------------------------------
DW
Jim Logajan
> FACT: Never before in world history has a steel framed building
> completely collapsed from fire. Not before 9/11, not after 9/11.
> Never!
And never before or since have jets crashed into steel frame buildings.
> FACT: WTC 7 was ***NOT*** hit by an airplane!
When the buildings next to it collapsed, all the kinetic energy of the
debris radiated outward on impacting the ground. It got hit by a
"shaped" explosion that tore into its base. No mystery except to those
who get their physics second hand.
> FACT: The WTC 7 collapse mimicked controlled demolition, as did the
> Towers. They all collapsed almost symmetrically, near free fall speed,
> into their own footprints.
Steel frame buildings have collapsed in strong earthquakes in precisely
the same manner. Scroll down to "Totally Collapsed 21-Story Steel Frame
Office Building" in this set of slides:
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/seg/hazard/slideset/3/3_slides.shtml
> FACT: There were small puffs of smoke (known as squibs) coming out of
> all three buildings, a sign of controlled demolitions.
Puffs of smoke may be fact - "sign of controlled demolition" is
speculation. So your statement is not a fact. If puffs of smoke had not
come out of the buildings immediately prior to collapse, then THAT would
have been peculiar!
> FACT: Explosives expert Van Romero said just days after 9/11 that he
> could tell all three buildings collapsed from controlled demolition
> just by watching the video footage
That's an opinion. Sure, its a fact he has an opinion, but so what?
> FACT: Romero recanted just a few days later without giving any
> scientific explanation as to why. He was then promoted.
FACT: Now you have to do your own thinking.
> FACT: WTC 7 leaseholder Larry Silverstein bought a 99 yr lease on the
> entire WTC complex just six weeks before 9/11, which just happened
> to include terrorist attack insurance
Wouldn't all the drilling, wiring, and planting of explosives that needed
to be done to WTC 7 have been noticed by people? Do you know how hard it
is to hide an undertaking like that!?
> FACT: The structural engineer that worked for Silverstein's insurance
> company told the Discovery Channel that the Towers' massive vertical
> columns all failed simultaneously, and mimicked controlled demolition
Since a steel frame building collapsed in just the same manner in a
Mexican earthquake, we now know that simultaneous collapse does not need
human action.
cjcampbell
TRUTH wrote:
> Tenured Physics Professor Steven E Jones gave two seminars to hundreds of
> people on WTC controlled demolitions and how the government's version of
> events "defies physics". The Feb 1st seminar can be viewed on Google
> Video, or downloaded to your computer.
>
>
> The following is a excerpt from Jones' PEER REVIEWED paper:
Yes. And the peers laughed hysterically. Jones is the laughing stock of
academe right now.
So, your argument boils down to this:
1) It is too difficult for people on board the plane to fly it into a
building, so the CIA must have done it by remote control. <sorry, but I
am having trouble typing while laughing hysterically and slapping my
knees>
2) Nevertheless, it was not airplanes that destroyed the WTC but
controlled demolitions. <It must have been difficult drilling all those
holes in the building and installing demolitions and wires and such for
months preparing for all this without a single solitary soul noticing
it.>
3) And all this as a pretext to invade Afghanistan (whatever for? to
control the non-existent oil pipeline there?) and Iraq (from which not
a solitary drop of oil has flowed into the coffers of anyone in the
US). Never mind that the reasons for invading Iraq had almost nothing
to do with 9/11. Most on both sides of the aisle at the time believed
that Iraq had or was developing WMDs, notwithstanding that this belief
was partially based on faulty intelligence and mitigated by the fact
that Iraq's own military establishment seems to have also believed it.
Indeed, the "yellow cake" affair from which the Plame scandal grew
appears now to have been completely vindicated; Iraq really was trying
to buy yellow cake uranium. It turned out that Wilson simply dismissed
the allegation without investigating it all -- which, as a government
agent, you would think he would have been high on the list of people
trying to start the war.
Frankly, "TRUTH," you need to change your handle: to LIAR.
TRUTH
Okay, so I make a little mistake and since you're so closed minded, you
think that negates all the scientific facts. LOL
cjcampbell
Jim Logajan wrote:
> TRUTH <TR...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > Tenured Physics Professor Steven E Jones gave two seminars to hundreds
> > of people on WTC controlled demolitions and how the government's
> > version of events "defies physics". The Feb 1st seminar can be viewed
> > on Google Video, or downloaded to your computer.
> >
> >
> > The following is a excerpt from Jones' PEER REVIEWED paper:
>
> 1) It was NOT peer reviewed.
> 2) The URL of his paper: http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
>
> > Professor Jones now has dozens of people suporting him. His finding
> > are based on scientific evidence and logical reasoning.
>
> Jones is not a qualified building engineer. He has repeatedly founded
> elaborate theories on tiny bits of evidence. For example, he also
> believes that Jesus Christ visited ancient America:
A little unfair attacking Jones' religious beliefs. After all, I also
believe that Jesus Christ visited ancient America, but I don't believe
Jones (who is a laughing stock at BYU) and I don't believe LIAR's
conspiracy theories. Nevertheless, I see your point.
Jim Logajan
"Peer review" has a clear meaning to everyone in the science community.
You've just admitted to lying to promote your unscientific view - the very
same charge you are leveling at others. Don't you think it absurd to use a
handle like TRUTH to lie and mislead others?
Chad Irby
TRUTH <TR...@nospam.com> wrote:
> WTC7 was NOT hit by an airplane.
Neither were the other buildings in the area, but the fires and other
damage sure affected them, too.
TRUTH
> TRUTH <TR...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> FACT: Never before in world history has a steel framed building
>> completely collapsed from fire. Not before 9/11, not after 9/11.
>> Never!
WTC 7 was NOT hit by an airplane
>
> And never before or since have jets crashed into steel frame
> buildings.
>
>> FACT: WTC 7 was ***NOT*** hit by an airplane!
>
> When the buildings next to it collapsed, all the kinetic energy of the
> debris radiated outward on impacting the ground. It got hit by a
> "shaped" explosion that tore into its base. No mystery except to those
> who get their physics second hand.
totally illogical. It never happened before.
>
>> FACT: The WTC 7 collapse mimicked controlled demolition, as did the
>> Towers. They all collapsed almost symmetrically, near free fall
>> speed, into their own footprints.
>
> Steel frame buildings have collapsed in strong earthquakes in
> precisely the same manner. Scroll down to "Totally Collapsed 21-Story
> Steel Frame Office Building" in this set of slides:
>
> http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/seg/hazard/slideset/3/3_slides.shtml
None of those building's collapsed almost symmetrically, near free fall
speed, into their own footprints. And none of those Mexico City buildings
are steel framed.
>
>> FACT: There were small puffs of smoke (known as squibs) coming out of
>> all three buildings, a sign of controlled demolitions.
>
> Puffs of smoke may be fact - "sign of controlled demolition" is
> speculation. So your statement is not a fact. If puffs of smoke had
> not come out of the buildings immediately prior to collapse, then THAT
> would have been peculiar!
Watch the clips
http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/videos.html
See the squibs here:
http://st12.startlogic.com/
~xenonpup/Flashes/squibs_along_southwest_corner.htm
>> FACT: Explosives expert Van Romero said just days after 9/11 that he
>> could tell all three buildings collapsed from controlled demolition
>> just by watching the video footage
>
> That's an opinion. Sure, its a fact he has an opinion, but so what?
It's leads to the explanation of controlled demolitions
>
>> FACT: Romero recanted just a few days later without giving any
>> scientific explanation as to why. He was then promoted.
>
> Now you have to do your own thinking.
Yes I do. Perhaps he didn't want to get an anthrax letter like the two
senators who opposed the Patriot Act did.
>
>> FACT: WTC 7 leaseholder Larry Silverstein bought a 99 yr lease on the
>> entire WTC complex just six weeks before 9/11, which just happened
>> to include terrorist attack insurance
>
> Wouldn't all the drilling, wiring, and planting of explosives that
> needed to be done to WTC 7 have been noticed by people? Do you know
> how hard it is to hide an undertaking like that!?
Yes I do. In the South Tower, there was a power down the weekend before
9/11. Also, Bush's brother Marvin was one of the directors in charge of
WTC security.
>
>> FACT: The structural engineer that worked for Silverstein's insurance
>> company told the Discovery Channel that the Towers' massive vertical
>> columns all failed simultaneously, and mimicked controlled demolition
>
> Since a steel frame building collapsed in just the same manner in a
> Mexican earthquake, we now know that simultaneous collapse does not
> need human action.
>
This is not true
Chad Irby
TRUTH <TR...@nospam.com> wrote:
> Yes, hius paper was peer reviewed.
Actually, a couple of guys looked it over for publication in a
heavily-slanted collection of articles on 9/11. not in any sort of real
peer-reviewed journal with any sort of bearing on the actual subject.
Chad Irby
TRUTH <TR...@nospam.com> wrote:
> Jim Logajan <Jam...@Lugoj.com> wrote in
> news:Xns9772B925D5BF...@216.168.3.30:
>
> > TRUTH <TR...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >> Yes, hius paper was peer reviewed.
> >
> > By what journal?
>
> Okay, if you mean peer reviewed in that sense, it was not as of yet.
Oh, in other words, a NON-peer-reviewed paper.
Matt Whiting
> Yes, hius paper was peer reviewed. Perhaps if you look into it instead of
> jumping to wild half baked conclusions (being the government's absurd)
> version, you'd see it.
By peers, I assume you mean people as wacky as him?
Matt
Orval Fairbairn
TRUTH <TR...@nospam.com> wrote:
(snipped)
>
> With your comment above, you are obiviously associating 9/11 Truth with
> silly conspiracy theories. Doing this is a predetermination of where
> you're beliefs will be. You cannot argue with science. And if you dispute
> it, you obviously didn't look into it
*WE* are not arguing with science! It is "TRUTH" who is and is losing --
badly!
1) "TRUTH" posits a crackpot professor's idea and claims that it has
been peer reviewed. It has -- but the good professor's peers reject the
story.
2) "TRUTH" posts in aviation newsgroups seeking validation for his (or
some other crackpot's) contention that the hijackers couldn't have flown
the 757s into the buildings and gets 100% response that they could have
done it.
3) "TRUTH" posits that no plane struck the Pentagon -- Purdue University
shows the complete engineering analysis of what happened when the lane
hit the Pentagon.
It is time for "TRUTH", "EagleEye", "Emmanuel Goldstein" and all the
rest of their ilk to go away and hide in their caves in Afghanistan,
with their buddies bin Laden and Zawahiri and await the next B-1 full of
deep penetrators which they all richly deserve.
TRUTH
@news-server1.tampabay.rr.com:
WTC7 collapsed in classic controlled demolition style.
TRUTH
news:orfairbairn-BEE2...@news.east.earthlink.net:
You are proving yourself to be the idiot. You have not explained ANY of
the scientific evidence. Scienctific laws CANNOT be changed. But since
you think they can be, perhaps you believe in Martians too?
Chad Irby
TRUTH <TR...@nospam.com> wrote:
> Okay, so I make a little mistake
...like claiming a paper is peer reviewed, like claiming pretty much
everything you've said in this thread (including screwing up the title
of the thread itself)?
Frank F. Matthews
Christ's visit to America. He is neither an expert on materials or
demolition.
TRUTH wrote:
> Tenured Physics Professor Steven E Jones gave two seminars to hundreds of
> people on WTC controlled demolitions and how the government's version of
> events "defies physics". The Feb 1st seminar can be viewed on Google
> Video, or downloaded to your computer.
>
>
> The following is a excerpt from Jones' PEER REVIEWED paper:
>
> "I presented my objections to the “official” theory at a seminar at BYU
> on September 22, 2005, to about sixty people. I also showed evidence and
> scientific arguments for the controlled demolition theory. In attendance
> were faculty from Physics, Mechanical Engineering, Civil Engineering,
> Electrical Engineering, Psychology, Geology, and Mathematics – and
> perhaps other departments as I did not recognize all of the people
> present. A local university and college were represented (BYU and Utah
> Valley State College).
>
> The discussion was vigorous and lasted nearly two hours. It ended only
> when a university class needed the room. After presenting the material
> summarized here, including actually looking at and discussing the
> collapses of WTC 7 and the Towers, only one attendee disagreed (by hand-
> vote) that further investigation of the WTC collapses was called for.
> The next day, the dissenting professor said he had further thought about
> it and now agreed that more investigation was needed."
>
>
>
> Professor Jones now has dozens of people suporting him. His finding are
> based on scientific evidence and logical reasoning.
>
TRUTH
@news-server1.tampabay.rr.com:
How about reading the paper for yourself?
Frank F. Matthews
TRUTH wrote:
> Jones does not need to be a building engineer. He's a physicist and is
> therefore qualified to determine if the government's version defies
> physics. And since his paper, and the 150 people in st911.org, use science,
> and not kooky proofless boxcutter nonsense, they can see that the WTC was
> taken down by controled demolitions. So can anyone else who looks at the
> information I posted.
Not really. He is lately an expert in Cold Fusion and Christ's visit to
America.
His arguments are not particularly plausible or convincing.
TRUTH
The government verion of the WTC collapses defy physics.
The idea that the Towers could collapse at near free fall speed from fire
is absurd.
How did the 47 MASSIVE STEEL COLUMNS in the Towers severe? And HOW did
they ALL severe at the SAME TIME?
"Frank F. Matthews" <frankfm...@houston.rr.com> wrote in
news:B1aLf.30684$7y1....@tornado.texas.rr.com:
TRUTH
His arguments are based on scientific principles. They do not have to be
convincing, since scientific laws cannot be changed, such as the Law of
Increasing Entropy. Are you an engineer or physicist?
How do explain THREE collapses at near free fall speed? First time in
history from fire!
Where did the energy come from to pulvarize concrete and office furniture
into particles of fine powder?
Where did the force come to *evaporate* steel?
Why was there moltel metal and yellow-hot metal under the Towers (AND
BUILDING 7) weeks after 9/11? (Those colors are consistant with thermite
explosives.)
Also, why did the government hall away and destroy the evidence before it
could be properly analyzed?
RAK
..............
>
> In other words, you won't find any people using terms like kook, tin foil
> hat, or any other childish terms. The people who understand his
> scientific evidence are clear minded and not closed asshole headed like a
> lot of people in this newsgroup seem to be. You people are pathetic.
>
>
> You stupid people don't know anything about anything when it comes to
> 9/11.
>
Perhaps I would take more notice of your arguements if you did not
automatically assume that I, being in the news group, must be a "tin foil
hat" (whatever that is), "pathetic" and "stupid", etc. If you jump to that
conclusion about me when you do not know a single thing about me (except
that I am in this group) then I really find it hard tohave any faith in your
ability to judge other issues.
Insulting people is not a good way to get them on your side.
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Chad Irby
TRUTH <TR...@nospam.com> wrote:
> Jones does not need to be a building engineer. He's a physicist and is
> therefore qualified to determine if the government's version defies
> physics.
Actually, all that qualifies him to do is *particle* physics (his
speciality is cold fusion, of all things).
This qualifies him for analyzing a fantasy "building demolition" about
as much as it qualifies him to design a skyscraper - in other words, not
at all.
Meanwhile, actual building demolition experts say people like this are
full of shit.
TRUTH
news:43fd3412$0$27785$6d36...@titian.nntpserver.com:
Don't get me wrong. Those comments by me above were directly solely to
the people who already insulted, and said similar things as above to me.
TRUTH
@news-server1.tampabay.rr.com:
>
> Meanwhile, actual building demolition experts say people like this are
> full of shit.
>
Show me one piece of evidence where a demolition expert, or structural
engineer, demonstrates Jones' to be false
Jim Logajan
>>> FACT: WTC 7 was ***NOT*** hit by an airplane!
>>
>> When the buildings next to it collapsed, all the kinetic energy of
>> the debris radiated outward on impacting the ground. It got hit by a
>> "shaped" explosion that tore into its base. No mystery except to
>> those who get their physics second hand.
>
> totally illogical. It never happened before.
You are unqualified to make that determination. As I said before, I have a
physics degree. You don't. Contact the University of Minnesota and ask them
if James Logajan holds a degree in physics if you don't believe me.
I'm using my real name and have nothing to hide. What is your real name,
and where did you get your education? If you insist on arguing from
authority, you need to present your credentials.
>>> FACT: The WTC 7 collapse mimicked controlled demolition, as did the
>>> Towers. They all collapsed almost symmetrically, near free fall
>>> speed, into their own footprints.
>>
>> Steel frame buildings have collapsed in strong earthquakes in
>> precisely the same manner. Scroll down to "Totally Collapsed 21-Story
>> Steel Frame Office Building" in this set of slides:
>>
>> http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/seg/hazard/slideset/3/3_slides.shtml
>
>
> None of those building's collapsed almost symmetrically, near free
> fall speed, into their own footprints. And none of those Mexico City
> buildings are steel framed.
Which part of "Totally Collapsed 21-Story Steel Frame Office Building" do
you not understand? Why do you outright lie when presented with facts like
these? The photo shows the remains of a steel framed building that has
clearly collapsed into its own footprint.
>>> FACT: There were small puffs of smoke (known as squibs) coming out
>>> of all three buildings, a sign of controlled demolitions.
>>
>> Puffs of smoke may be fact - "sign of controlled demolition" is
>> speculation. So your statement is not a fact. If puffs of smoke had
>> not come out of the buildings immediately prior to collapse, then
>> THAT would have been peculiar!
>
>
> Watch the clips
>
> http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/videos.html
>
>
> See the squibs here:
>
> http://st12.startlogic.com/
> ~xenonpup/Flashes/squibs_along_southwest_corner.htm
1) Explosions would be set to occur before or at the collapse - not after.
2) If the lower floors collapsed first, then the compressed air must escape
somehow - windows would be expected to be blown out as the building
collapses.
3) If there was a conspiracy to blow up the building, it would have been
easier to blow one side of the building - only an incompetent conspirator
would go to the trouble of planting explosives in the upper floors _and_
arrange a symmetrical collapse. Needless hard work.
>>> FACT: WTC 7 leaseholder Larry Silverstein bought a 99 yr lease on
>>> the entire WTC complex just six weeks before 9/11, which just
>>> happened to include terrorist attack insurance
>>
>> Wouldn't all the drilling, wiring, and planting of explosives that
>> needed to be done to WTC 7 have been noticed by people? Do you know
>> how hard it is to hide an undertaking like that!?
>
>
> Yes I do. In the South Tower, there was a power down the weekend
> before 9/11. Also, Bush's brother Marvin was one of the directors in
> charge of WTC security.
Um, doesn't lack of power make drilling harder? And just how does one
person manage such a vast security breach? This is taking place in the
center of an area that has one of the highest population densities on the
planet. Don't you think that someone might have noticed something? How many
people do you think live and work near there anyway???
>>> FACT: The structural engineer that worked for Silverstein's
>>> insurance company told the Discovery Channel that the Towers'
>>> massive vertical columns all failed simultaneously, and mimicked
>>> controlled demolition
>>
>> Since a steel frame building collapsed in just the same manner in a
>> Mexican earthquake, we now know that simultaneous collapse does not
>> need human action.
>>
>
> This is not true
Explain why not.
Jim Logajan
> Well, I am human too, and entitled to make mistakes. Your statement
> would only be believed those without the intelligence to understand
> the evidence, or who aren't capable of believing that our government
> can be evil afterall.
Lots of people believe the U.S. government can be (and has committed) evil
- I count myself as one of those.
> That's understandable I agree. Still, I have not
> read ONE reply in these threads that explain ANY of the clear
> scientific envidence provided.
You are married to the conclusion and that colors everything for you.
Orval Fairbairn
TRUTH <TR...@nospam.com> wrote:
"TRUTH" is starting to sound like "Brad Guth," who denies the lunar
landing.
BTW, I neither believe nor disbelieve in extraterrestrials, but I *do*
believe in crackpots (see above)!
The scientific facts are that a bunch of savage Wahabbi radicals
hijacked four airliners, killed the crews and proceeded to fly two of
them into the WTC and another into the Pentagon.
The plane that hit the WTC each packed several kilotons equivalent
energy which caused major structural degradation, then the subsequent
fire of 50+ tons of jet fuel, further degraded the structures until they
collapsed.
That sums up the engineering analysis of WTC. The plane that hit the
Pentagon effectively hit a very hard wall, disintegrated and burned up.
Pieces of steel were found at the site, along with minor external damage
at the site.
The passengers on the fourth plane, hearing about the first two, decided
to do something about it and overpowered some of the hijackers. The
hijackers in the cockpit either broke the plane in midair or dived it
into the ground, killing all aboard.
Now, what part of the facts doesn't "TRUTH" understand?
tim gueguen
> people on WTC controlled demolitions and how the government's version of
> events "defies physics".
If you're gonna promote conspiracy theories why not promote credible ones?
A much more believeable theory would be that the 911 attacks took place as
anyone with sense believes, with hijacked airliners flying into the World
Trade Center and the Pentagon, but that Osama bin Laden is actually a CIA
operative, and the creation of al Qaeda and its terrorist activities were
all at the behest of the Company. Of course you'd still have to come up
with some halfways believeable theory about why the CIA wanted bin Laden to
do all this stuff, but at least the method would be credible. Instead we
get ludicrous fantasies about robot planes and demolition charges somehow
planted in the WTC with no one noticing them.
tim gueguen 101867