Another CO Pet Peeve
acenturi
aircraft after the doors close, pluck people out of coach and move them to
First Class until it is full. I feel taken advantage of. I either pay for
1st Class, use miles or upgrade with elite status and here are people who
have done virtually nothing to earn the perk getting it for free. Now you
know they are not elite flyers, because
CO automatically upgrades even Silver Elites before/at flight time. The
person they sat next to me the other day though they had to pay for a glass
of wine. What's the sense of going out of one's way, taking longer flights,
more plane changes, etc., to attain elite or earn miles if the perks are
just handed out free to anyone a flight attendant fancies?
mrtravel
Maybe they were holding the FC seats for no shows. After everyone had
boarded they had people with some status for upgrading. Maybe they paid
a higher fare, and had no status to upgrade sooner.
What do you care? You got your first class seat. That is all you are
entitled to. You are not entitled to determine who gets to sit in the FC
cabin. One thing I have noticed. I normally don't see more people
upgraded than there are seats to put them.
By your own plane and you won't have the problem.
PTRAVEL
"acenturi" <per...@cobra3.com> wrote in message
news:3f6a5...@127.0.0.1...
That's not what's happening at all. If First Class is fully reserved, but
has not checked in full, Elite-level flyers who are eligible for upgrade are
told to take their assigned coach seats. Once the door closes, those seats
are released and the eligible Elites are brought up to F. This avoids the
problem of having someone who has bought an F seat showing up at the last
minute, only to find someone with an upgrade sitting in it. As someone who
buys full-fare F, I'd certainly be unhappy if I get there 9 minutes before a
flight, only to be told by a gate agent that, because I'm 1 minute past the
deadline, I'll have to sit in coach for the $2300 or so that I've paid for
my ticket.
>
>
Reef Fish
Excellent, and absolutely spot on, explanation!
CO has changed its rules on upgrade and Elite upgrades for domestic
flights this year, to depend on fare class, time of purchase, over and
beyond mere Elite Status. As a result, many more flyers are eligible
for upgrade to F who had virtually no chance before.
Although I have not missed a single Elite Upgrade yet (ever since I've
been a member of the new Platinum, which began in 1999), I've been
Elite upgraded this way TWICE this year, after I've been seated in
the coach class, and upgraded to F only within 10 minutes from
departure.
Platinum cards still carry weight. But not nearly as much weight as
before. It's another CO's measures to bring in more revenue. I ain't
complaining even though I sense my Elite upgrades are getting more
and more precarious, and may even find the FIRST time since 1999 that
I'll not be Elite upgraded, before 2003 is over.
It's the FREE MARKET. I like where I stnad in this free market,
relative to CO and the rest of the airlines in the world to which I
am absolutely free to jump. :-) I DO fly the other airlines,
but nearly always on routes CO doesn't fly, such as to Papeete,
Tahiti (several times this year).
-- Bob.
PTRAVEL
"Reef Fish" <Large_Nass...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8fb7380b.03091...@posting.google.com...
I agree with you completely, Bob. I've been pretty lucky with upgrades. I
usually fly full-fare, so I don't have to worry about them. The times I've
flown on a discounted ticket, I've almost always gotten an upgrade and, if
not, was given either an exit row or bulkhead seat.
I had a weird experience with CO on Wednesday. I'm curious how you would
have reacted. Warning: this is LONG.
I was returning ATL to SNA (via Houston, of course). My return ticket
(full-fare, unrestricted, F) was for Friday, but I finished my business on
Wednesday. My TA booked me a one-way F seat for Wednesday (I wasn't sure
whether I'd be able to make it to the airport on time and didn't want to
give up my Friday seat, just in case). I checked in electronically, got my
boarding pass out of the machine, and then went to the Presidents Club.
Once there, I told the desk agent to cancel and refund my Friday flight.
Well, unknown to me at the time, the desk agent, by mistake, cancelled the
Wednesday flight that I had just checked in for.
I boarded the plane, and took my assigned seat -- 1F -- which is my favorite
seat on CO's 737-300/500s. Sure enough, another passenger shows up with a
boarding pass for the same seat. The FA takes both boarding passes, comes
back in a few minutes and says, rather curtly, "You've cancelled your
flight. You'll have to leave the plane." I toldl her that I hadn't
cancelled my flight (remember, at this point I had no idea that the desk
agent had screwed up), and I wasn't leaving the plane unless the Captain
told me to. The FA left, and I pulled out my cellphone and called my TA
(who is, I swear to god, Wonder Woman!). She checked the record, figured
out what happened, and told me she'll call CO and get them straightened out.
Next thing I knew, the captain was standing next to me. He said, "I'm the
captain, and I'm telling you to leave the plane." I said, "Okay -- I always
follow the instructions of the crew. I'm leaving." I got up, and started
to get my bags out of the overhead. He said, "You don't have to do that."
I said, "Yes I do. My bags travel with me. If you're throwing me off this
flight, I'll take them off, too."
I disembarked with my carryons, and was met by a gate agent in the jetway.
She told me that F was full, and I'll have to fly in coach. I told her that
I have a valid F ticket and boarding pass, for which I've paid $1,200 (for
the one-way portion). I advised her that if I wind up in coach, or miss my
flight, I'll sue CO. She asked me to wait a minute.
She came back about 10 minutes later (during which time I was left standing
in the sweltering jetway), much chagrined, and explained that the agent at
the Presidents Club had mistakenly cancelled the wrong flight (I already
knew that, thanks to my TA), and that I can take seat 2E. I told her that I
need a window seat, never fly in an aisle seat (this is true -- I have a
flight phobia that is ameliorated by looking out the window), and had made
sure that I'd have one by calling my TA to reserve it the moment I knew I'd
be flying. Her response to me was: "Well, the agent made an honest
mistake." I said, "Yes, but it was Continental's mistake, not mine. I
don't appreciate the humilation of being thrown off the plane, and I don't
appreciate the cavalier and hostile treatment to which I've been subjected."
(Yes, I actually talk like that) She asked me to wait, went on the plane,
came back and said, "You can have 1F."
I re-boarded, re-stowed my carryons (now in a bin several rows back), and
sat through the flight, silently fuming. When we touched down in Houston, I
called my TA back and asked her to confirm that I wouldn't have trouble on
my Houston. She told me she had spoken with CO, and everything should be
fine. She checked the record again and said it showed I had my seat (1F)
for the next leg.
We pulled up to the jetway, and I sprinted through the terminal to the gate
for SNA. On the way, I passed a "Customer Service" counter. I run up to
the elite desk, give a quick account of the story to the desk agent and ask
her to check the record. She looked and said, "You're not booked on this
flight, and there are no available seats." I responded, "I have a valid F
boarding pass. I'm going to the gate and get on that plane. If CO denies
me boarding, I _will_ sue this airline, make no mistake." I went to the
gate, boarded, and took my seat. An FA offered to take my coat, but I
declined and told her the whole story. I said, "I'd better keep it, just in
case there are more problems." She, unlike any of the other CO personnel I'd
dealt with that day, was very sympathetic, and went to check the passenger
manifest. She returned and said, "You're Mr. PTRAVEL?" I said, "Yes." She
said, "Everything's fine. May I take your coat now?"
And so ends this saga.
It was your comment about how CO regards its elites that prompted my tale.
Yes, mistakes get made, but that doesn't justify treating me like a
stowaway, rudely and discourteously. I'm still trying to decide whether to
take my business elsewhere.
Jaybee727
>> > aircraft after the doors close, pluck people out of coach and move them
>to
>> > First Class until it is full
There is another category of folks who get bumped up to FC and that's the
non-revs (employees). I worked for CO for 3 years and was put in the front
cabin a number of
times after having been originally seated in coach. Employees can pay a small
premium (around $25 dollars) to be listed for FC. After the plane is loaded and
ready to go any remaining empty FC seats are given to the non-revs who paid to
sit there.
It's always upsetting for a non-rev to see a redcoat (supervisor) walking down
the isle with boarding passes in his/her hand just before they close the cabin
door. It means an employee is either getting upgraded or getting kicked off
because of some late arriving revenue passenger.
Jerry in LAS
Reef Fish
< Gigantic snips throughout >
> > It's the FREE MARKET. I like where I stnad in this free market,
> > relative to CO and the rest of the airlines in the world to which I
> > am absolutely free to jump. :-)
> >
> > -- Bob.
>
> I had a weird experience with CO on Wednesday. I'm curious how you would
> have reacted. Warning: this is LONG.
Since you asked me directly, I'll respond with my usual candidness telling
you WHERE and WHY I owuld have acted differently.
You did a great job (which required verbosity) to describe both the factual
situation AND how you felt about it as events unfold, so that I did get
a vivid picture of what transpired.
Short answer: I would have been as perturbed as you were at some part
of the course of events; but I would have been more considerate of
the OTHER side, which did make an honest mistake and DID accommodate
all your wishes even though you were IMHO as guilty of being
unnecessarily rude and uncooperative (from the OTHER side's point of
view), as you view the other side to be unnecessarily rude and
uncooperative.
Longer answer: I'll only comment briefly on a few specific points.
> Well, unknown to me at the time, the desk agent, by mistake, cancelled the
> Wednesday flight that I had just checked in for.
So the Prez Club agent made a mistake. "Sh*t happens" as they say.
But I wonder why you bothered to cancel the FRIDAY flight? If you don't
show up, you can use the value of that ticket (minus penalty for ANY chance
of itinerary), and your Wednesday problem would not have occurred in the
first place.
OTOH, since you had already gotten a BOARDING PASS for your Wednesday
flight, then you HAVE to cancel it before flight time, or else you lose
the full amount.
I think that may be the reason the Prex Club agent thought you meant
to cancle the flight you already had the boarding pass. But
it was a mistake on the agent's part. I've seen much worse, some
with much less plausible excuse.
> I boarded the plane, and took my assigned seat -- 1F -- which is my favorite
> seat on CO's 737-300/500s. Sure enough, another passenger shows up with a
> boarding pass for the same seat. The FA takes both boarding passes, comes
> back in a few minutes and says, rather curtly, "You've cancelled your
> flight. You'll have to leave the plane."
The FA could have said it less curtly perhaps. But she was right! How
is she expected to know that it wasn't you who made the mistake?
> She came back about 10 minutes later (during which time I was left standing
> in the sweltering jetway), much chagrined, and explained that the agent at
> the Presidents Club had mistakenly cancelled the wrong flight (I already
> knew that, thanks to my TA), and that I can take seat 2E.
They rectified the Prex Club agent's mistake (that's the best they could do,
isn't it?) not knowing your inflexible insistence of a window seat, if
not the seat 1F.
At THAT point, I would simply ask someone with a window seat if they would
be willing to swap your 2E, or ask the FA to ask. It's almost a certainty
that it would not be a problem, as many passengers, such as both my wife
and I, PREFER to have an isle seat to a window seat.
> mistake." I said, "Yes, but it was Continental's mistake, not mine. I
> don't appreciate the humilation of being thrown off the plane, and I don't
> appreciate the cavalier and hostile treatment to which I've been subjected."
> (Yes, I actually talk like that) She asked me to wait, went on the plane,
> came back and said, "You can have 1F."
Did you insist on seat 1F rather than just any window seat? If so, I would
say you were very unreasonable. In eny event, you did get back your
original 1F, with much nore fanfare than necessary.
> We pulled up to the jetway, and I sprinted through the terminal to the gate
> for SNA. On the way, I passed a "Customer Service" counter. I run up to
> the elite desk, give a quick account of the story to the desk agent and ask
> her to check the record. She looked and said, "You're not booked on this
> flight, and there are no available seats." I responded, "I have a valid F
> boarding pass. I'm going to the gate and get on that plane. If CO denies
> me boarding, I _will_ sue this airline, make no mistake." I went to the
> gate, boarded, and took my seat. An FA offered to take my coat, but I
> declined and told her the whole story. I said, "I'd better keep it, just in
> case there are more problems." She, unlike any of the other CO personnel I'd
> dealt with that day, was very sympathetic, and went to check the passenger
> manifest. She returned and said, "You're Mr. PTRAVEL?" I said, "Yes." She
> said, "Everything's fine. May I take your coat now?"
>
> And so ends this saga.
>
> It was your comment about how CO regards its elites that prompted my tale.
I wasn't speaking about CO personnel per se, but the perks of its Elite
membership, especially the Platinum. CO has some rude agents and some
who make mistakes. That's just a fact of life that I shrug off and not
make a big deal our of some trifle (such as changing an aisle seat to
window, or vice versa).
Your tale has little to do with CO Elite or non-Elite. It's just a case
of an "honest mistake" that with a little consideration and curtesy on
BOTH sides, there would have not been a "problem" as you escalate it to
sound, and in the end you were accommodated exactly as you wanted. What
more do you want -- hang the Prez Club agent? :-)
It seems to me that the one "mistake" by one agent was rectified as well
as CO or any other airline can, under the same circumstances, perhaps
better accommodated than some other airlines might have done, about your
"1F" seat.
> Yes, mistakes get made, but that doesn't justify treating me like a
> stowaway, rudely and discourteously. I'm still trying to decide whether to
> take my business elsewhere.
By the same token, one mistake by the Prez Club agent, unbeknownst to
the FA and Captain, and even YOU, before you phone your TA, doesn't
justify your attitude and action toward the FA and Captain because they
were just doing their job, with the INFORMATION on hand.
To your ultimate sentence, I would say the same as I would to anyone:
> > It's the FREE MARKET.
Do whatever you think is best for YOU. It may or may not be actually best
for you, but if you THINK "take my business elsewhere" is best, then it's
probably best for all concerned. :-)
Just heed the cliches, "Look before you leap" and not "Jump from the
frying pan into the fire". :-))
-- Bob.
Binyamin Dissen
[ snipped ]
:>Next thing I knew, the captain was standing next to me. He said, "I'm the
:>captain, and I'm telling you to leave the plane." I said, "Okay -- I always
:>follow the instructions of the crew. I'm leaving." I got up, and started
:>to get my bags out of the overhead. He said, "You don't have to do that."
:>I said, "Yes I do. My bags travel with me. If you're throwing me off this
:>flight, I'll take them off, too."
The captain was removing you from the flight and not only didn't INSIST that
you remove your bags, was willing to let you leave them behind??
That doesn't make much sense, especially post 9/11.
[ snipped ]
--
Binyamin Dissen <bdi...@dissensoftware.com>
http://www.dissensoftware.com
Not the Karl Orff
"PTRAVEL" <ptravel...@cox.net> wrote:
> That's not what's happening at all. If First Class is fully reserved, but
> has not checked in full, Elite-level flyers who are eligible for upgrade are
I don't that's even the case. CO is still keeping P inventory available
right until time of departure. Gordon bethune is still waitng for the
last minute full fare pax to turn up.
PTRAVEL
"Binyamin Dissen" <post...@dissensoftware.com> wrote in message
news:9dtqmvk66v69k12n2...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:53:09 -0700 "PTRAVEL" <ptravel...@cox.net>
wrote:
>
> [ snipped ]
>
> :>Next thing I knew, the captain was standing next to me. He said, "I'm
the
> :>captain, and I'm telling you to leave the plane." I said, "Okay -- I
always
> :>follow the instructions of the crew. I'm leaving." I got up, and
started
> :>to get my bags out of the overhead. He said, "You don't have to do
that."
> :>I said, "Yes I do. My bags travel with me. If you're throwing me off
this
> :>flight, I'll take them off, too."
>
> The captain was removing you from the flight and not only didn't INSIST
that
> you remove your bags, was willing to let you leave them behind??
>
> That doesn't make much sense, especially post 9/11.
Nothing about the incident made sense.
Reef Fish
> "Binyamin Dissen" <post...@dissensoftware.com> wrote in message
> news:9dtqmvk66v69k12n2...@4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:53:09 -0700 "PTRAVEL" <ptravel...@cox.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > [ snipped ]
:>Next thing I knew, the captain was standing next to me. He said, "I'm the
:>captain, and I'm telling you to leave the plane." I said, "Okay -- I always
:>follow the instructions of the crew. I'm leaving." I got up, and started
:>to get my bags out of the overhead. He said, "You don't have to do that."
:>I said, "Yes I do. My bags travel with me. If you're throwing me off this
:>flight, I'll take them off, too."
> > The captain was removing you from the flight and not only didn't INSIST
> > that you remove your bags, was willing to let you leave them behind??
> >
> > That doesn't make much sense, especially post 9/11.
>
> Nothing about the incident made sense.
It made perfect sense to me! Let's go back to your original narrative.
You said above "I always follow the instructions of the crew ...".
No, you didn't. And you didn't even realize, in hindsight, that you didn't!
PTR> The FA takes both boarding passes, comes
PTR> back in a few minutes and says, rather curtly, "You've cancelled your
PTR> flight. You'll have to leave the plane." I toldl her that I hadn't
PTR> cancelled my flight (remember, at this point I had no idea that the desk
PTR> agent had screwed up), and I wasn't leaving the plane unless the Captain
PTR> told me to. The FA left, and I pulled
The FA was a member of the crew, wasn't she?
At THAT point, all the FA and the Captain knew was that somebody cancelled
your flight. Even you didn't know who did it.
You were making a SCENE, and probably obstructing the traffic of other
passengers, and you forced the issue of having the Captain to tell you to
leave the plane, while everyone (yourself included) had a chance to find
out what exactly happened.
At THAT point, all ensuing events pointed to the fact that the Captain had
ALREADY knew that a mistake had been made by SOMEONE, and had decided to
accommodate you even if it was YOU who made the mistake, so that you wouldn't
miss your flight, by giving you an available seat, whether it's in coach or
First Class.
I think THAT was what explained:
:>I got up, and started
:>to get my bags out of the overhead. He said, "You don't have to do that."
He wasn't "throwing you off" (that was YOUR words). He was merely telling
you that you must leave the plane (during the PENDING/further investigation)
and that you don't have to take your bag until they decided WHERE to seat
you (or, in the worst case scenario, eject you from that flight -- you would
THEN be asked to take your bag in the overhead compartment with you).
:>I said, "Yes I do. My bags travel with me. If you're throwing me off this
:>flight, I'll take them off, too."
At this point, the Captain was doing his best to accommodate you, and it was
to his credit that he didn't argue with you or acted as rudely as you did.
After he ascertained that it was the President's Club's agent that made the
mistake, your First Class seat was restored back to you, wasn't it?
Under NO CONCEIVABLE circumstance would what the Captain said to you to be
construed as "throwing you out of the plane" as having decided NOT to allow
you to be on that flight, and yet told you that you didn't have to take your
bag!
It would be against airline regulation. It would be against all commonsense.
That would be the surest way for any Captain to lose his job should he acted
that way: eject a passenger from a flight, and take off with the passenger's
carryon without the passenger.
It's surprising how even after the fact, when all had be rectified, that
you STILL didn't see what was actually going on.
It was clear to ME that the Captain was doing his best to make it as
pleasant for YOU and everyone else on the plane (given your LOUD and
obnoxious behavior), revealed in your OWN description (which you didn't
quite realized that you were rather unreasonable in making a mountain out
of a mole hill} -- such as making a big issue out of getting a 2E seat back
instead of a window seat, or window seat 1F -- you were ALSO accommodated
on that -- getting your 1F seat back!
JMHO.
-- Bob.
PTRAVEL
"Reef Fish" <Large_Nass...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
Yes, she was. A rude and abusive one, and the flight was not under way, nor
the door closed. I follow all crew instructions, except hers. Okay?
>
> At THAT point, all the FA and the Captain knew was that somebody cancelled
> your flight. Even you didn't know who did it.
On the contrary, all I knew was that the flight _hadn't_ been cancelled. I
had checked in just an hour before, and was provided with a boarding pass by
Continental's system.
>
> You were making a SCENE,
Nope. No scene -- I never raised my voice, I was never impolite, etc.
> and probably obstructing the traffic of other
> passengers,
Nope. Wrong again. I was in my seat. The passenger with the other
boarding pass for my seat had taken in the next row. No obstruction.
>and you forced the issue of having the Captain to tell you to
> leave the plane, while everyone (yourself included) had a chance to find
> out what exactly happened.
You are making a lot of assumptions, most of which are wrong, about what
happened.
I did force the issue to this extent -- the FA tried to kick me off because
of an error CO made, that I knew nothing about. The captain _did_ kick me
off, for the same reason. It was handled by the FA and, to a lesser extent,
the captain, by a notable lack of courtesy -- she was rude, arrogant and
accusatory from the _beginning_ of the encounter.
>
>
> At THAT point, all ensuing events pointed to the fact that the Captain had
> ALREADY knew that a mistake had been made by SOMEONE, and had decided to
> accommodate you even if it was YOU who made the mistake,
I was thrown off the airplane. How is that accomodating to me? I was told
that the airplane was full, but they'd try to find room for me in _coach_,
despite the fact that I had paid _full fare_ to sit in F, and that the whole
situation was solely the fault of CO, and not me. How is that accomodating?
>so that you wouldn't
> miss your flight, by giving you an available seat, whether it's in coach
or
> First Class.
If you ever pay $2000+ for first class, and then are told to sit in a $200
coach seat, be sure and report back how you feel about it.
They also didn't care much about my missing the flight, as they had thrown
me off of it. If there hadn't been room, do you think they would have
thrown some other passenger off of it to make room for me? Remember --
their screw up, which they subsequently handled badly.
>
> I think THAT was what explained:
>
> :>I got up, and started
> :>to get my bags out of the overhead. He said, "You don't have to do
that."
>
> He wasn't "throwing you off" (that was YOUR words). He was merely telling
> you that you must leave the plane (during the PENDING/further
investigation)
Other than that, how did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?
I had been comfortably settled into my seat. If they wanted to investigate,
it could have been done just as easily by letting me stay there. Instead,
the FA said, "You cancelled your ticket. You'll have to get off the plane."
The pilot said, "I'm the pilot, and I'm telling you to get off the plane."
No one said, "We're really sorry, but until we figure out what happened,
would you mind waiting on the jetway?"
Again, you're making plenty of assumptions, based on little or know
information.
> and that you don't have to take your bag until they decided WHERE to seat
> you (or, in the worst case scenario, eject you from that flight -- you
would
> THEN be asked to take your bag in the overhead compartment with you).
At the time, I thought it odd that the pilot said I could leave my bags in
the overhead. However, after being accosted by the crew in this fashion, my
only concern was that I not be the victim of any more CO screwups. My
carryons, besides containing suits and the like which I needed, also had
medication which I take to stay alive, an expensive laptop computer, a
printer, etc. I was not about to be separated from all of that.
>
>
> :>I said, "Yes I do. My bags travel with me. If you're throwing me off
this
> :>flight, I'll take them off, too."
>
> At this point, the Captain was doing his best to accommodate you, and it
was
> to his credit that he didn't argue with you or acted as rudely as you did.
I didn't act rudely. (More assumptions, more errors on your part). I never
acted rudely at any time. And if this is the best that the Captain could do
to accomodate a passenger who (1) was flying on a $2,000+ ticket, and (2)
was platinum with CO, then he needs some diplomacy lessons. The FA was
rude, arrogant and accusatory -- with her very first exchange, she
humiliated me and insulted me. The temptation was to be rude and insulting
in return -- but I wasn't. I explained, politely, the situation. The
captain wasn't discourteous -- he simply gave me an order, with which I
immediately complied. It was phrased as a request, and it wasn't offered
with an explanation or apology.
>
>
> After he ascertained that it was the President's Club's agent that made
the
> mistake, your First Class seat was restored back to you, wasn't it?
No.
First, he didn't ascertain anything (nor did I expect him to) -- he simply
went back to his pre-flight check. A CO ground rep met me in the jetway,
and went through the same routine: "YOU cancelled your flight, etc." and
said they'd try to find me a seat in coach. By that time, I had found out
what had happened from my TA, told the rep, and told her I'd sue CO if I
missed my flight because of the Presidents Club rep's mistake. That's when
I was "allowed" to wait in the sweltering jetway while she went to verify my
story. Upon her return, instead of receiving a sincere apology, I was told,
"it was an honest mistake," and was told that they, "found room for me in
F," and was told to sit in 2E.
The point you seem to miss is that it is not just the fact of the mistake,
but the rudeness and arrogance with which the Atlanta FA, ground rep and
pilot handled the mistake, that I object to.
>
>
> Under NO CONCEIVABLE circumstance would what the Captain said to you to be
> construed as "throwing you out of the plane" as having decided NOT to
allow
> you to be on that flight, and yet told you that you didn't have to take
your
> bag!
Well, to me, "You'll have to get off the plane," means "you'll have to get
off the plane." It does not mean, "we're going to find another seat for
you," or, "we're going to find out what happened."
>
> It would be against airline regulation. It would be against all
commonsense.
Again, you're making assumptions based on no information whatsoever. For
all I know, the Captain didn't want me pulling down my bags because it did,
briefly, hold up boarding (remember this was a very full flight). _I_
asssume (and since _I_ was there, my assumptions are, at least, based on
full information) is that, after boarding was complete, if they hadn't found
a coach seat to stuff me into, they would have pulled off my bags. As I
already explained, I had no intention of being separated from my bags
_at_any_point.
> That would be the surest way for any Captain to lose his job should he
acted
> that way: eject a passenger from a flight, and take off with the
passenger's
> carryon without the passenger.
If, in fact, that's what he would have done. See above.
>
>
> It's surprising how even after the fact, when all had be rectified, that
> you STILL didn't see what was actually going on.
It's surprising to me how you've twisted the facts that I've reported to
support a lot of assumptions which, for the most part, are completely wrong.
>
>
> It was clear to ME that the Captain was doing his best to make it as
> pleasant for YOU and everyone else on the plane (given your LOUD and
> obnoxious behavior),
That's an example of what I mean. I wasn't loud. I wasn't obnoxious.
You, however, have grown insulting and tedious. Conversation over.
Reef Fish
> "Reef Fish" <Large_Nass...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:8fb7380b.0309...@posting.google.com...
PTR > Nothing about the incident made sense.
> >
> >
RF> It made perfect sense to me! Let's go back to your original narrative.
> > You said above "I always follow the instructions of the crew ...".
> >
> > No, you didn't. And you didn't even realize, in hindsight, that you
> didn't!
> > PTR> The FA takes both boarding passes, comes back in a few
> > PTR> minutes and says, rather curtly, "You've cancelled your
> > PTR> flight. You'll have to leave the plane." I toldl her
> > PTR> that I hadn't cancelled my flight (remember, at this point
> > PTR> I had no idea that the desk agent had screwed up), and I
> > PTR> wasn't leaving the plane unless the Captain told me to.
> > PTR> The FA left, and I pulled
> >
> > The FA was a member of the crew, wasn't she?
>
> Yes, she was. A rude and abusive one, and the flight was not under way, nor
> the door closed. I follow all crew instructions, except hers. Okay?
I was just pointing out that you contradicted yourself, in your own narrative!
> > At THAT point, all the FA and the Captain knew was that somebody
> > cancelled your flight. Even you didn't know who did it.
>
> On the contrary, all I knew was that the flight _hadn't_ been cancelled.
> I had checked in just an hour before, and was provided with a boarding
> pass by Continental's system.
But you DIDN'T know at that point that your boarding pass to the flight
had INDEED been cancelled! Both the FA and the Captain had more CURRENT
information than you had, at the time.
> > and you forced the issue of having the Captain to tell you to
> > leave the plane, while everyone (yourself included) had a chance to
> > find out what exactly happened.
>
> You are making a lot of assumptions, most of which are wrong, about what
> happened.
What wrong assumption did I make?
1. It was only AFTER the Captain had told you to leave your seat (which
had been assigned to another passenger) that YOU called your travel
agent on the cell phone to learn that your boarding pass to the
seat 1F (which you THOUGHT you were entitled) had indeed been
cancelled.
2. The Captain and crew DID find out exactly what happened and restored
your seat to First Class, in 2E.
> I did force the issue to this extent -- the FA tried to kick me off
> because of an error CO made, that I knew nothing about.
She was just doing her job, given the info that the seat 1F previously
assigned to you (on your boarding pass) was cancelled. Just because YOU
knew nothing about it didn't give you the right to be obnoxious and
rude, as your own narrative of the incident revealed.
> If you ever pay $2000+ for first class, and then are told to sit in a $200
> coach seat, be sure and report back how you feel about it.
Non sequitur and irrelevant to the present discussion about YOUR incident.
I had already indicated I would have acted differently. If that happened
to ME, the issue would have been resolved without the kind of attitude
and behavior exhibited by you, during the incident AND after the fact,
even after the ONE mistake had been completely rectified.
> Again, you're making plenty of assumptions, based on little or know
> information.
I was basing my comments ENTIRELY on the information YOU (PTRAVEL)
provided, even without the opposing view by the FA and Captain which
I am quite sure would not be the same as yours! ;o)
> > After he ascertained that it was the President's Club's agent that made
> > the mistake, your First Class seat was restored back to you, wasn't it?
>
> No.
What do you mean "No"? What was that you said NOW (below)?
>
> was told that they, "found room for me in F," and was told to sit in 2E.
The remainder of your tedious follow-up was nothing more than a rehash of
the SAME FACTS that you had already given in your initial LENGTHY
narrative, save a few mis-recollection by YOU of what you had written!
It's counterproductive to continue beyond the re-establishment of facts
above.
> Again, you're making assumptions based on no information whatsoever.
Now THAT's FUNNY!
I have already debunked your previous allegations of "making assumptions".
Everything I commented upon was based solely on what YOU (PTRAVEL)
described, and my opinion based thereupon.
> You, however, have grown insulting and tedious. Conversation over.
Excellent. You and I both had our say -- I wouldn't have given my initial
comments, as softly as I did, had you not asked me directly for them.
Readers can decide for themselves who was "rude", "insulting", and
"tedious" based on what had already been said, and rehashed.
> > revealed in your OWN description (which you didn't quite realized
> > that you were rather unreasonable in making a mountain out a mole
> > hill} -- such as making a big issue out of getting a 2E seat back
> > instead of a window seat, or window seat 1F -- you were ALSO
> > accommodated on that -- getting your 1F seat back!
> >
> > JMHO.
> >
> > -- Bob.
JMHO once more.
-- Bob.
Jaybee727
>right until time of departure. Gordon bethune is still waitng for the
>last minute full fare pax to turn up.
This is true and is why Business First was such a great deal for employees
flying standby. If you found 20 open seats in Business First 12 hours prior to
flight time, there was a good chance that all of them would still be empty at
the time of departure and available for employeetravel.
I'm surely nobody special, but my wife and I got Business First seats to
Europe and Asia about 80% of the time.
This is one case where the airline"s greed came out as a bonus for employees.
Jerry in LAS
Daniel Martin
and daughter twice. They said it was to balance the aircraft for takeoff.
DM
Jaybee727
>and daughter twice. They said it was to balance the aircraft for takeoff.
Sometimes it's neat to be ballast.
Jerry in LAS