Piece counting
Dan J.
When you count pieces in your set, do you count minifig arms, hands,
torso, legs, crutches, etc. or do you count the torso with arms and
hands together as one piece?
I was going to physically count all pieces in 6099 since it doesn't say
anywhere how many pieces this set has.
-- Dan
danj...@pixi.com
Dan Arcari
I would count the torso and arms as once piece. Since the arms can't be
attatched to anything else (glue, melting and other absurb means not
withstanding) they don't qualify as a piece, at least to me. Similarly,
mini-fig helmets and hats would count as a piece but the little plumes
that go into the hats would not count as an individual piece.
-Dan
Greg Williams
Dan Arcari wrote:
>
> In article <33C019...@pixi.com>, "Dan J." <danj...@pixi.com>
> wrote:
>
> > When you count pieces in your set, do you count minifig arms, hands,
> > torso, legs, crutches, etc. or do you count the torso with arms and
> > hands together as one piece?
>
> be
> attatched to anything else (glue, melting and other absurb means not
> withstanding) they don't qualify as a piece, at least to me.
> Similarly,
> mini-fig helmets and hats would count as a piece but the little plumes
> that go into the hats would not count as an individual piece.
You might also want to count the head and torso (with attachments) as
one piece. It may be the Lego counts them this way because someone
posted here earlier that the heads are attached to the torso at the
factory. This is why all the minifigs in sets have heads on torsos when
you open the box. The plumes on helmets may count as one piece per
sprue of them. Same goes for the gold coins. For 1x1 round plates,
maybe 2 count as 1 piece. Some older sets I've gotten have had a sprue
of those with 2 on the sprue, though they don't seem to do that in
current sets. Also, do you count extra parts left over, such as control
sticks, 1x1 round plates, visors, etc. that Lego seems to give extras
of? Too bad we can't get a counting guide from Lego to see how they
count the number of parts.
--
Greg Williams
gr...@mindspring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~gregw
Steve Demlow
> I would count the torso and arms as once piece.
According to someone in the parts replacement group at LEGO Consumer
Service, the head/torso/arms/hands all count as a single piece. So a
typical "basic" minifig is three pieces: legs, head/torso/arms/hands, and
hat/helmet/hairpiece.
Steve
--
Steve Demlow -- dem...@networkcs.com (612) 626-8075 (voice)
AHPCRC Graphics and Visualization Support (612) 626-1596 (fax)
Network Computing Services, Inc. (NetworkCS) Minneapolis, MN
Dan J.
SRC wrote:
>
> I too would count the hands, arms and torso as one piece, but I thought the
> head was a different piece - ie. a typical fig. would be four pieces instead
> of three. How else can you have different faces on your figs.? When there
> was just the basic smiley, it wouldn't matter, but now...
But you can also have different colors of arms, different legs, even
hands. I would count everything as a separate piece. That would be 9
pieces for a minifig not including a hat. I wouldn't count the
"feathers" and ornaments for hats and helms as separate pieces because
they can be attached to other things than just hats. At least, the
dragon ornaments can. See 6048 Majisto's workshop and 6057 Sea serpent.
BTW, do you count flower petals together with the leaves? Is a gold
coin a piece? Is a CRAPP a piece? This is getting difficult. It would
be much easier to count everything that can be separated as a piece.
I would rather if Lego was measured in weight than in piece count.
Let's say me and you both have 20 pieces. I have 20 CRAPPs and you have
20 gold coins. Who has more Lego?
-- Dan
danj...@pixi.com
SRC
Steve Demlow <dem...@ahpcrc.umn.edu> wrote in article
<5pratv$j...@epx.cis.umn.edu>...
> In article <s381259-0607...@pdq911.tiac.net>,
s38...@gettysburg.edu (Dan Arcari) writes:
>
> > I would count the torso and arms as once piece.
>
> According to someone in the parts replacement group at LEGO Consumer
> Service, the head/torso/arms/hands all count as a single piece. So a
> typical "basic" minifig is three pieces: legs, head/torso/arms/hands, and
> hat/helmet/hairpiece.
I too would count the hands, arms and torso as one piece, but I thought the
head was a different piece - ie. a typical fig. would be four pieces instead
of three. How else can you have different faces on your figs.? When there
was just the basic smiley, it wouldn't matter, but now...
Steve
S...@iStar.ca
PatrickD
Dan Arcari wrote:
> In article <33C019...@pixi.com>, "Dan J." <danj...@pixi.com> wrote:
>
> > When you count pieces in your set, do you count minifig arms, hands,
> > torso, legs, crutches, etc. or do you count the torso with arms and
> > hands together as one piece?
> >
> > anywhere how many pieces this set has.
>
> attatched to anything else (glue, melting and other absurb means not
> withstanding) they don't qualify as a piece, at least to me. Similarly,
> mini-fig helmets and hats would count as a piece but the little plumes
> that go into the hats would not count as an individual piece.
Yes, and since the heads are attached to the torso at the factory, those
two most likely count as one. Usually, whenever people have counted
pieces and compared it to Lego's count they were off by one or two.
There's not yet any definative method to counting pieces. One unsolved
question is if extra pieces count or not.
--
-PatrickD <patrickd...@adequate.com>
Obligatory URL: http://www.adequate.com/lego/
Steve Demlow
In article <01bc8b0a$3ccf8ca0$c1b7...@SRC.Internal>, "SRC" <S...@istar.ca> writes:
> I too would count the hands, arms and torso as one piece, but I thought the
> head was a different piece - ie. a typical fig. would be four pieces instead
> of three. How else can you have different faces on your figs.?
The point is to _count_ the pieces, not _describe_ them. There is also a
lot of mix-and-matching between torsos/arms/hands, not just heads.
Regards,
Tim Vattima
Steve Demlow wrote:
> In article <01bc8b0a$3ccf8ca0$c1b7...@SRC.Internal>, "SRC"
> <S...@istar.ca> writes:
>
> > I too would count the hands, arms and torso as one piece, but I
> thought the
> > head was a different piece - ie. a typical fig. would be four pieces
> instead
> > of three. How else can you have different faces on your figs.?
>
> The point is to _count_ the pieces, not _describe_ them. There is
> also a
> lot of mix-and-matching between torsos/arms/hands, not just heads.
I have every set I own inventoried (is that a word?) and I count a mini
fig as 3 pieces - the leg piece, the torso piece and the head. Some mini
figs have different color legs than the top piece they connect into. The
torsos get even more complex where the torso is one color, the arms a
different color, and the hands yet a third color.
-Tim
Remco Slotboom
Dan J. wrote:
>
> SRC wrote:
> >
> > I too would count the hands, arms and torso as one piece, but I thought the
> > head was a different piece - ie. a typical fig. would be four pieces instead
> > was just the basic smiley, it wouldn't matter, but now...
>
I think there is a fairly easy solution to this quarrel, a piece is
counted as a piece if it comes separated from other pieces in a new
set.
for a minifig, this means that the head is not counted as a separate
piece because minifigs (oddly enough) come with a head stuck onto
the torso when you buy it.
on the same lines, one set of four gold coins is a single piece, as well
as a 'ring' of three plumes for heads or a 'ring' of six minifig tools.
FYI I figured this out by trial and error on a picture of a set of pirate
minifigs in a S@H catalog until I got to the correct piece count.
GEAllen444
Lego seems to count a minifig as two pieces, one for torso, one for legs,
with hat/hair as another piece.
This is confirmed by the polybag pirate set 1464, Pirate Lookout: two
yellow plates(2), two small leaves(=4), a barrel(=5), four grey blocks of
differing types(=9), a pirate flag(=10), a flag pole(=11), a saber(=12), a
pistol(=13), a hat (=14), and the minifig(=16). The listed size is sixteen
pieces.
Todd Lehman
Patrick Delahanty <SPAMLESS...@adequate.com> writes:
> Yes, and since the heads are attached to the torso at the factory, those
> two most likely count as one. Usually, whenever people have counted
> pieces and compared it to Lego's count they were off by one or two.
> There's not yet any definative method to counting pieces. One unsolved
> question is if extra pieces count or not.
Joshua Delahunty has a system which, as I recall, yields spectacular results,
as compared to the "official" piece count.
I think he also has a list of exceptions where they bent the rules or goofed.
Some of these are humorous.
Head+Torso = 1 piece in the official count.
Many types of hinges count as two pieces. 1x4/2x2 plate hinges, corner
connect, count as one piece because they are not user-assembled, even though
they can be disassembled. I can't remember for sure whether 1x4/2x2 brick
hinges, corner connect, count as two pieces or one piece, but I think most
if not all of the time they count as two pieces. 1x2 brick pivot hinges seem
to count as two pieces, an for good reason -- the tops are sometimes 2x2
instead of 1x2, and the bottoms are often used in connection with a domed
canopy.
I'm wondering today about dragons. Have they always counted dragons as
7 pieces or did they once count as 5 pieces? There is the body, the two
wings, and the two arms. The arms are separate pieces because they have
Technic-compatible pegs and because you get just the arms to a dragon in
at least one Time Cruisers set. An analysis of Witch's Windship showed
that they must be counting now the top half of the head and the tail as
pieces as well -- which I though was cheating, although dragons now come
in black as well as green so maybe it's not cheating.
Anyway. If there's not already a web page with detailed discussions and
proofs of this sort of thing, I really wish someone who's spent enough time
on this to be an expert would publish this -- it would be very useful.
Perhaps Joshua can comment on whether extra pieces are known to count or not.
One type of extra piece is the extra 1x1 round plate or the extra visor.
Another type is the 4th flower on a sprue intended for a 3-flower plant.
I am also curious whether sticker sheets count or not. I've seen some sets
where they seem to and others where they seem not to, but then I don't have
all the rest of the rules worked out as diligently as Joshua has...
--Todd
Todd Lehman
Remco Slotboom <1268...@student.eur.nl> writes:
> I think there is a fairly easy solution to this quarrel, a piece is
> counted as a piece if it comes separated from other pieces in a new
> set.
>
> for a minifig, this means that the head is not counted as a separate
> piece because minifigs (oddly enough) come with a head stuck onto
> the torso when you buy it.
>
> on the same lines, one set of four gold coins is a single piece, as well
> as a 'ring' of three plumes for heads or a 'ring' of six minifig tools.
>
> FYI I figured this out by trial and error on a picture of a set of pirate
> minifigs in a S@H catalog until I got to the correct piece count.
I'd be curious to learn which minifig set that was, since I've always
believed that four gold coins counted as four separate pieces in the
piece counts.
Which reminds me, I think Joshua found an anomoly in 6703 or 6704 (space
minifigs boxes) -- or maybe it was 6705 -- where one of the rules for
piece counting had changed over time. This complicates matters!
--Todd
Elizabeth Klein-Lebbink
Todd Lehman wrote:
> Another type is the 4th flower on a sprue intended for a 3-flower plant.
Y'know I always wondered about that. I realize now that it's done for
mold making reasons (ie symmetry) but why not a 120 degree symmetry so
that there are ONLY 3 flowers? What do people do with that orphan 4th
flower? Any creative uses?
Jerome
Todd Lehman
I think they make them 4 at a time so that the 4th one is an extra.
I once found a set, however, that had 3 of these 4-flower pre-fab pieces and
4 green 3-stem flower bottoms, in which case there were no extras at all.
--Todd
HW
> What do people do with that orphan 4th
> flower? Any creative uses?
> Jerome
My son uses them as sea stars in his underwater reef.
Carolyn
Joshua Delahunty
>Patrick Delahanty <SPAMLESS...@adequate.com> writes:
>> Yes, and since the heads are attached to the torso at the factory, those
>> two most likely count as one. Usually, whenever people have counted
>> pieces and compared it to Lego's count they were off by one or two.
>> There's not yet any definative method to counting pieces. One unsolved
>> question is if extra pieces count or not.
Joshua's Spidey Sense was activated when
In article <5qgf12$67r$1...@darla.visi.com>, Todd Lehman <leh...@visi.com> wrote:
>Joshua Delahunty has a system which, as I recall, yields spectacular results,
>as compared to the "official" piece count.
>
>I think he also has a list of exceptions where they bent the rules or goofed.
>Some of these are humorous.
This entire thing is a tough business to guess at. It's LEGO Systems that
does the work, I'm fairly certain, and they can make mistakes. They've
changed counts in Shop At Home catalogs, and even on boxes (more on that
below).
My "system" is, at best, educated guesswork. For today's lesson, I'll
be using 6037 Witch's Windship (us) as an example. (Why? because it's
what's laying near the computer this evening, as I recently received
it as a very tardy birthday gift, and so it's handy).
>
>Head+Torso = 1 piece in the official count.
Absolutely, unwaveringly. They come as one item from the factory, and so
count as one in the count placed on boxes. Plus, as Steve pointed out,
one of their reps said was so. :) Time after time this has been clearly
true, from the smallest Mini-Figure pack to the largest Pirate ship (where
the sets are crawling with heads, and this particular point has great
consequences on the outcome).
That said, in places where a Mini-Figure head is disembodied, and used
as an object (in which case they're almost always clear, black, or
some manner of transparent), they DO <seem to> count <sigh>.
>Many types of hinges count as two pieces. 1x4/2x2 plate hinges, corner
>connect, count as one piece because they are not user-assembled, even though
>they can be disassembled.
Yup. I came to this conclusion thanks to 8880 Super Car. There are a
GLORIOUS 54 pair of this type of hinge in the set (2 pair are yellow), and
if they counted, the count would be WAY off. Currently, I get 1354 as
my count, which is still 11 over what is "official." Of course, I'm
probably counting extra elements in there.
>I can't remember for sure whether 1x4/2x2 brick
>hinges, corner connect, count as two pieces or one piece, but I think most
>if not all of the time they count as two pieces.
I believe they always count separate. They come separate from the factory.
To get to today's example set, 6037: if each pair counted as one, then the
count would be (surprised? 2 low -- there are 2 pair in the set).
>1x2 brick pivot hinges seem
>to count as two pieces, an for good reason -- the tops are sometimes 2x2
>instead of 1x2, and the bottoms are often used in connection with a domed
>canopy.
By the by, the official (LEGO Systems / S@H) name for this type of
hinge is a Tilting Bearing. They always come separate too. (So you
can see the pattern developing -- if they come seperate, they count
seperate).
>I'm wondering today about dragons. Have they always counted dragons as
>7 pieces or did they once count as 5 pieces? There is the body, the two
>wings, and the two arms. The arms are separate pieces because they have
>Technic-compatible pegs and because you get just the arms to a dragon in
>at least one Time Cruisers set.
7.
>An analysis of Witch's Windship showed
>that they must be counting now the top half of the head and the tail as
>pieces as well -- which I though was cheating, although dragons now come
>in black as well as green so maybe it's not cheating.
Wow -- teachs me to read ahead. I wasn't aware that Todd had used
the same example -- all the better!
Again, the rule is true: 6037 comes (as I know, because it was
brand-new when I opened it 10 minutes ago) with the dragon body (which
counts as 1 element, though it's obviously made of several separate
pieces of plastic, BTW) loose in the box, and the arms, wings, jaw,
and tail in the plastic bag. That's 7 elements, and I'm pretty sure
it always has been (tricky spot here -- the upper jaw often came
connected to the body when the two were shown in the display tray: I
have no answer on how they counted in that/those sets).
>Anyway. If there's not already a web page with detailed discussions and
>proofs of this sort of thing, I really wish someone who's spent enough time
>on this to be an expert would publish this -- it would be very useful.
>
>Perhaps Joshua can comment on whether extra pieces are known to count or not.
>One type of extra piece is the extra 1x1 round plate or the extra visor.
>Another type is the 4th flower on a sprue intended for a 3-flower plant.
My experience on this varies. Basically, it seems that they do NOT
count, but I have found instances in the very small sets (<40 elements)
where I could not reconcile the number unless an extra space visor
DID count. My theory on this, apart from the fact that S@H likes to
change its mind on counts -- pointing to a slightly flawed counting system;
is that they perhaps count every small item in the smaller sets where
the "normal" LEGO Maniacs of the world -- take that to me people who
aren't as strange as I am that I pay attention to this -- might actually
take the time to count and "check up" on them.
>I am also curious whether sticker sheets count or not. I've seen some sets
>where they seem to and others where they seem not to, but then I don't have
>all the rest of the rules worked out as diligently as Joshua has...
They do not, in my experience. The strange thing (to me anyway) is that
while AFAIK, no paper or string items count, Cloth Capes _do_. For if they
do not, 6037 has one too many in its count. Now I know that someone will
insist that this is the head counting, but since I've found it to so
consistently NOT count, I choose to believe that it's the cape that counts.
On LS (LEGO Systems) changing the box count...
6195 Neptune Discover Lab has come in two box styles, with two
different element counts! On one, the count is in the lower right hand
corner of the lid, and lists at 695 Pcs. In the second (strangely,
copyrighted the same "(c) 1995"), the piece count is in the upper left
under the LEGO logo, and lists at 692! I have both boxes (I'm a box
keeper, BTW) and it's quite interesting to compare them.
-- joshua
--
-- Joshua Delahunty (dulc...@alumni.cse.ucsc.edu) RTL CMR/IRL's: 7 --
--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Kun det bedste er godt nok |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Joshua Delahunty
In article <5qmau2$mo8$1...@darla.visi.com>, Todd Lehman <leh...@visi.com> wrote:
>Joshua Delahunty <dulc...@alumni.cse.ucsc.edu> writes:
>> [great stuff snipped]
>>
>> > 1x2 brick pivot hinges seem
>> > to count as two pieces, an for good reason -- the tops are sometimes 2x2
>> > instead of 1x2, and the bottoms are often used in connection with a domed
>> > canopy.
>>
>> By the by, the official (LEGO Systems / S@H) name for this type of
>> hinge is a Tilting Bearing. They always come separate too. (So you
>> [separate]).
>>
>> [more great stuf snipped]
------------------------------------------------------------
An Aside:
Aiiiigh! I OBVIOUSLY haven't been posting enough lately. I SWORE I
got that seperate/separate problem fixed, but it's crept back to haunt me!
Reminds me of the Sonya/Sonja problem I had... I wrote it both
ways in the same sentence even. Ugh.
------------------------------------------------------------
>Wow, thank you! A "tilting bearing." Cool. Looked up "bearing" in the
>dictionary and "pivot" was one of the words used in one of the definitions...
>cool.
>
>I never knew what a "bearing" was before, so I'm not sure I'd know what
>this piece was if someone just called it a "1x2 Tilting Bearing." It
>sounds like a Technic Piece to my non-Technic-savvy ears.
Bearing is somewhat generic, of course. I used to think it was a round
ball, as in ball bearings, but a bearing is basically anything mechanical
object that bears the weight or force of another mechanical object.
>I'm wondering if some redundancy would be good...i.e.,
>
> 10 Black/Yellow 1x2 Tilting Bearing Hinges
> 8 Red 2x2 Tilting Bearing Hinge Tops
> 16 Black 1x2 Tilting Bearing Hinge Bottoms
My names:
3937 is 1x2 Tilting Bearing Base
3938 is 1x2 Tilting Bearing Studs
6134 is 2x2 Tilting Bearing Studs (so far, this has only appeared in red)
Put 3937 and 3938 together, and I guess I'd call it
Black 1x2 Tilting Bearing (Yellow Studs)
BTW, your enthusiasm about this encouraged me to look up my reference:
the 1992 Shop At Home Catalog, page 20:
"#5165 Hinges and Tilting Bearings. Now you can add moving parts
to your models. Make doors open, windshields tilt up, trucks empty or
anything else you can think of. 31 pieces."
>Does that sound too silly? I always used to call these "Brick Hinges"
>or "Pivoting Brick Hinges" but that's ambiguous with respect to other
>brick-style hinges.
Yup:
3830 is 1x2 Brick Hinge, Corner Connect, M
3831 is 1x2 Brick Hinge, Corner Connect, F
in my nomenclature.
Plate Hinges are actually a much hairer fur ball to deal with, BTW.
>I try to refer to halberds as "Halberd Axes,"
I still don't do this. I call 'em "Poleaxe" and "Double-Bladed
Poleaxe." Must retrain myself on this point... <sigh>
>to beams as "Technic Beams,"
>and to chalices as "Chalices/Goblets w/ Stem" to reduce the probability
>of ambiguity or miscommunication...a little redundancy can't hurt, can it?
Not when you're describing items for auction. You're putting up information
that a lot of people will depend on.
-- joshua
--
-- Joshua Delahunty (dulc...@alumni.cse.ucsc.edu) RTL IRL's: 7 --
Rob Lion
Elizabeth Klein-Lebbink wrote in article <33CC57...@earthlink.net>...
>Todd Lehman wrote:
>
>> Another type is the 4th flower on a sprue intended for a 3-flower plant.
>
>Y'know I always wondered about that. I realize now that it's done for
>mold making reasons (ie symmetry) but why not a 120 degree symmetry so
>that there are ONLY 3 flowers? What do people do with that orphan 4th
>flower? Any creative uses?
>Jerome
I don't use any flowers at all. Instead, I use the stems as swamp grasses
and reeds in the moat around my castle. I have always thought the flowers
looked kind of stupid.
Rob Lion
bn...@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~bnrnl/ - not much yet but it's coming
"She may not look like much, but she's got it
where it counts, kid. I've added some special
modifications myself." -- Han Solo
HENDO
Rob Lion wrote:
Todd Lehman wrote:
>Y'know I always wondered about that. I realize now that it's done for
>mold making reasons (ie symmetry) but why not a 120 degree symmetry so
>that there are ONLY 3 flowers? What do people do with that orphan 4th
>flower? Any creative uses?
>Jerome
>
Castle Torches! Here's how:
Flip the extra flower upside down.
Stick it in a Space Hand-Laser Gun.
Stick an extra Plume/Feather in the hole of the flower.
This of course works best with Yellow or Red flowers and feathers.
But it offers yet another way to use spare flowers, AND spare helmet
plumes.
--H.
Todd Lehman
Eric Brok
Todd Lehman <leh...@visi.com> schreef in artikel
<5r2njq$oa1$1...@darla.visi.com>...
Let's generalize this original idea: From now on the Fourth Flower can be
perceived as a versatile generic conversion tool from stud to micro-hole.
Finally we have a way to deploy all those feathers, plumes and stuff in
other places than hats!
Eric
HENDO
Eric Brok wrote:
> [snip]
> > >>
> > >
> > >Castle Torches! Here's how:
> > >
> > >Flip the extra flower upside down.
> > >Stick it in a Space Hand-Laser Gun.
> > >Stick an extra Plume/Feather in the hole of the flower.
> > >
> > >This of course works best with Yellow or Red flowers and feathers.
> > >But it offers yet another way to use spare flowers, AND spare helmet
> > >plumes.
> > >
> > >--H.
>
> Let's generalize this original idea: From now on the Fourth Flower can be
> perceived as a versatile generic conversion tool from stud to micro-hole.
> Finally we have a way to deploy all those feathers, plumes and stuff in
> other places than hats!
>
> Eric
Hey yeah!
I never thought it through that far before!
heh, cool!
--H.
SNealons
I always spread the flowers around on green base plates, to loosely
resemble dandelions (yellow) or other short stemmed flowers. It gives a
nice touch to your city park or adds more tropical plants to your islander
hideouts. But the idea mentioned above is a very good one. I had no idea
the flowers fit into anything.