I'm struggling to get up consistently after tearing a groin muscle
and would like suggested exercises to rebuild and strengthen my
injury.
I'm heavy and after 3 attempts at a deep water start, I lose my grip.
Should I try the gloves with a dowel in them? Or should I try
strengthening my grip, what exercises work?
Any websites with a good tutorial for deep water slalom starts?
Should I keep both feet in or drag a leg?
Any recommendations on instructional videos or books? Which of Gordon
Rathbun's videos would be a good idea?
What do people think of the Perfect Pull machine? Anyone have a used
one for sale?
My HO Charger constantly sprays water out in front of me and into my
face. When I do get up I am breathing hard after only 3 cuts. Some
people say it's too short for my weight of 230 lbs, need to go faster,
it's concave from edge to edge and is not meant to be skied casually,
I'm leaning back too much, move the bindings forward one screw
position which I did and could not successfully get up, etc. Did I
purchase the wrong ski? I don't feel confident at 30 to 34 miles per
hour and the lakes we ski are seldom
smooth enough to go that fast so I don't think going faster is a great
idea. I've thought about some of the wider alternative slalom skis
like the Connelly Mid SX or one of the O'briens, but the locals that
sell them are not competent ("it's just a great ski"), can't really
tell me why the particular model would work well for me, and renting
and trying before
I buy isn't all that it's cracked up to be, when I'm struggling to do
deep
water starts successfully anyway. I had hoped that by buying the
Charger, once I build my strength, stamina, and skills, I'd have a ski
I could really cut on
(big impressive sprays would be nice!) and be a good ski to try on the
slalom course eventually. Am I expecting too much from one ski, to go
from essentially
a beginner, then all the way back to an intermediate skier again?
Would I learn quicker and progress faster with a different ski, an
alternative wider ski, which one? Please advise and offer your
suggestions?
Thanks
I once heard it said that you should work out in the gym in order to enjoy
a sport, rather than participate in a sport in order to stay in shape.
The more consistent I am with my workouts, the less I seem susceptible to
injury. If you could consider hitting the gym with a knowledgeable
friend, perhaps you could strengthen your grip enough to keep hold of the
handle. I've seen injuries due to the use of Clinchers (gloves with the
dowel), so I don't recommend them to new skiers.
One of the best tapes out there is Gordon's 12 Slalom Drills. However, I
cannot remember if he reviews deep water starts in that video. If you
could add a boom to your boat, you might find it useful for perfecting
your deep water starts. And a deep-vee, easy up handle would also help.
I, too, had problems with spray in the face in my earlier years of
waterskiing. I eventually learned this is typical at slower speeds,
because most skis will push water out in front of the skier at slow
speeds. This was a problem for me when learning to ski the course -- when
I turned at a ball, spray would disturb my contacts and ruin the pass.
So, I bought several pairs of cheap safety glasses and a couple of
Float-Eyes, and they worked well for a couple of years. As I worked up to
34mph in the course, I was going fast enough that the ski no longer threw
spray out in front of me, and no longer need safety glasses.
When it comes to equipment, keep in mind that some of us that make steady
progression in this sport change skis after two seasons or so. Some of us
change skis even if we don't make any progression. What I am trying to
say is that you shouldn't be surprised if you grow out of a ski after only
one or two seasons.
I've been using the Clincher gloves with the strap and dowel for 9 years
now. I NEVER had a problem and I ski alot. I think I'm on my 6th or 7th pair
now. I can wakeboard all day long with regular gloves, getting up on a
slalom ski is hard without the Clinchers. They also last alot longer than
regular gloves.
Last year we had a dry year at our lake so we did not go hardly at all, so
the beginning of this year was kind of though. Like you, after a couple of
good wake crossings... my tongue would be on my boots as a matter of
speaking. Short sets is what got me through it again this year.
I tried for six good pulls through the wake in a row (like a slalom course)
then just hang a bit, and go for another six. When too tired, just stop and
take a rest in the boat, then go again.
Also when I started early this year I first used my 'old daddy ski' (as my
kids call it). It is an HO Radius 3. This must be the biggest ski around. It
is no good for the course, but is fine for building strenghth. After awhile
I went back to my HO TNT (72") and mixed that with sets on the bigger ski.
From May on the big ski has been in the attick... I ski at 30mph on the big
ski and 34 on the TNT. I use two boots so I have both feed in when I start.
I've heard good things about the Charger, but I have not tried it yet. I
think the bigger model is the Magnum, which I think is the new TNT version.
That would be the ski I would try when I have to look for a new one.
Hang in there,
Eddy
"Brent" <blh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:687c4a98.01112...@posting.google.com...
> I once heard it said that you should work out in the gym in order to enjoy
> a sport, rather than participate in a sport in order to stay in shape.
I have to agree with you 110% on this. Frequently my ski buddies go to the gym
to work out after 3 or 4 sets on the lake. I likewise have started rowing
afterwards to work the lactic acid out of my muscles. A Perfect Pull can
definitely help with your grip and toughen up your hands. But then again since
it is my baby I will be considered biased about this.
> The more consistent I am with my workouts, the less I seem susceptible to
> injury.
Flexibility is paramount. I run on steep hills and row every day to help keep
my achillies tendons stretched and build up my knees.
> I, too, had problems with spray in the face in my earlier years of
> waterskiing. I eventually learned this is typical at slower speeds,
> because most skis will push water out in front of the skier at slow
> speeds.
One solution to slow speed spray is a larger ski.
> This was a problem for me when learning to ski the course -- when
> I turned at a ball, spray would disturb my contacts and ruin the pass.
I used to have that problem with my contacts sometimes as well, but ever since
the Accuview 2 lenses came out I have had ZERO problems.
>ppoi...@mindspring.com wrote:
>
>> I once heard it said that you should work out in the gym in order to enjoy
>> a sport, rather than participate in a sport in order to stay in shape.
>
You need both. Muscle "tres importante" in waterskiing (skill)
>I have to agree with you 110% on this. Frequently my ski buddies go to the gym
>to work out after 3 or 4 sets on the lake.
And this does what? Hasten the glycogen depletion in the muscles?
That don't help.
>I likewise have started rowing
>afterwards to work the lactic acid out of my muscles. ...
For what purpose?
>
...
>Flexibility is paramount. I run on steep hills and row every day to help keep
>my achillies tendons stretched
All that steep hills doe is increase the risk of a tendon rupture
(disturbingly common as one nears 40 I'm afraid). You need to stretch
properly, not exacerbate the issue.
>and build up my knees.
As long as you balance it with hamstrings, that is a good plan.
Tom
> >I have to agree with you 110% on this. Frequently my ski buddies go to the gym
> >to work out after 3 or 4 sets on the lake.
>
> And this does what? Hasten the glycogen depletion in the muscles?
> That don't help.
Funny it has helped me to be less sore the next day and more ready to handle skiing
two and three days in a row, but if you say it doesn't help any I'm sure you must
be right.
> >I likewise have started rowing
> >afterwards to work the lactic acid out of my muscles. ...
>
> For what purpose?
I don't like sore muscles. One of my ski buddies had some serious elbo pain
starting last year and now does individual arm curls with 35 and 50 lbs weights
every other day. His pain went away mid season.
> All that steep hills doe is increase the risk of a tendon rupture
> (disturbingly common as one nears 40 I'm afraid). You need to stretch
> properly, not exacerbate the issue.
How am I exasterbating an issue if my tendons are well stretched and causing me no
problems. The rowing stretches them very well and the running puts additional force
on them. From what I have seen the only way to build up strength is through stress.
> >and build up my knees.
>
> As long as you balance it with hamstrings, that is a good plan.
I also use Glucosamine and Chondroitin which has helped my joints feel better as
well. I haven't had pain from my joints in ages.
Tom, I'm sorry if you are not able to excercise the same day that you ski, but that
doesn't mean that it isn't a good idea and won't help you to get stronger and make
you feel better. Waterskiing is a weight lifting like sport and frankly I don't
feel anything complements it better than a good aerobic workout afterwards.
...
>Funny it has helped me to be less sore the next day and more ready to handle skiing
>two and three days in a row, but if you say it doesn't help any I'm sure you must
>be right.
Gee, how do I and others on my lake manage to ski day after day (I did
12 in a row at one point last season) - must be the water.
>
...
>I don't like sore muscles.
Lactic acid as the primary driver for muscle soreness has been out of
favour (ie. mostly disproved) for about the last twenty years. In
fact, there is considerable research to suggest that lactic acid plays
a role in musc,le energy transport!
> One of my ski buddies had some serious elbo pain
>starting last year and now does individual arm curls with 35 and 50 lbs weights
>every other day. His pain went away mid season.
Rehab like that in fact could do away with or limit elbow pain. Or
increase it.
>
>> All that steep hills doe is increase the risk of a tendon rupture
>> (disturbingly common as one nears 40 I'm afraid). You need to stretch
>> properly, not exacerbate the issue.
>
>How am I exasterbating an issue if my tendons are well stretched and causing me no
>problems.
Two words: eccentric loading"
>The rowing stretches them very well and the running puts additional force
>on them. From what I have seen the only way to build up strength is through stress.
Get out more. Even imagery has improved strength. (The Russians
taught us that).
...
>I also use Glucosamine and Chondroitin which has helped my joints feel better as
>well. I haven't had pain from my joints in ages.
get back to us after you hit 40 <G>.
>
>Tom, I'm sorry if you are not able to excercise the same day that you ski,
Actually, I have access to a complete Nautilus center and free
weights.
>but that
>doesn't mean that it isn't a good idea and won't help you to get stronger and make
>you feel better. Waterskiing is a weight lifting like sport and frankly I don't
>feel anything complements it better than a good aerobic workout afterwards.
Tell me again how aerobic work outs and water skiing relate??
Tom
The clincher gloves will work to keep your grip. The downside, is
beginning skiers don't know when to let go when they wipe out, so you
might end up hanging on longer than you should and get injured. It
also causes the handle to shoot towards the passengers in the boat
when you hang on to long, and possibly injure the boat driver (because
he can't see it coming).
Eddy
"Vernon Reeve" <re...@bendcable.com> wrote in message
news:3c02a254...@news.supernews.com...
> Have you ever seen this happen or experienced it yourself with these
> Clincher gloves ? I never even had an hint of the glove holding on during a
> fall. The moment you decide to let go... the handle goes.
>
> Eddy
A number of years back I used to ski with a 6'3" 200+ lb 34 mph 32 off skier
who wore clinchers. The handle shot forward on more than a few occassions where
it could have hurt the driver or passengers.. Luckily the shock tube at least
seemed to keep the handle off to the side of the driver a bit. A few people
had reported on this newsgroup having their windshield shattered by a handle,
so it can happen.
You mean you are supposed to let go???
Tom
==============================================================
Need info on COTTAGES and CABINS?
http://www.cottageliving.com
==============================================================
AQUASKIER
Where do you train and how often?
ANDY
I have a semi-private lake in Orlando where I train. This time of year
I may ski 2 or 3 days per week, one maybe two-ski rides day. Usually
this time of year I'm traveling a lot more so by the time I get home and
have a rest day or a day to catch up on things then have to turn around
and get back on a airplane. Normally in the winter I try to ski 4 days
per week but in October, November and December I try to take a break
and won't ski at all. In January, February and March I try to ski 4
days per week.
AQUASKIER
When you break in the winter, do you participate in weight training or
aerobics?
ANDY
I like to run and I like to ride bikes, but usually when I take that
time off, I take time off. I like to play golf or do things with my
family and my kids. I enjoy being at home but when I start back skiing,
I try to get back aerobically in shape and work out in the gym to stay
limber. Skiing builds a lot of it's own strength but in the beginning
you get pretty stiff so I use the gym to get in shape.
The whole interview is at
http://www.aquaskier.com/interviews/andy_mapple_12_00.htm
doug
>... A few people
>had reported on this newsgroup having their windshield shattered by a handle,
>so it can happen.
Yes, it can Interestingly the literature (medline) reports
very few such incidents though.
Tom
> I'm heavy and after 3 attempts at a deep water start, I lose my grip.
> Should I try the gloves with a dowel in them? Or should I try
> strengthening my grip, what exercises work?
Ah ... kindred spirits. You sound like me (although I haven't
transitioned to a wide ski yet). Tired of not (water) skiing for far
too many years. Bought a (used) towboat. Found that I was so out of
shape that I couldn't get out of the water at least as often as not (no
blaming the boat). Once up, things worked reasonably well but I still
tired quickly.
I got disappointed/mad at myself (mentally, that is) and hooked up with
a medically significant training program that has me excited about
working out each week as well as measurably growing muscle and stamina
with each passing month.
For details on the program (or perhaps how to find something similar in
your area) consult the group I hooked up with at www.xgym.com. At first
it seemed expensive but then I sat down one day and a) I spend more on
cars and a whole host of other non-essential things and b) it's an
investment in health and life. Not trying to "sell" anything here.
Just a VERY happy customer of the xgym looking forward to the coming
snow and (now long off) waterskiing seasons.
JR
On Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:22:12 GMT, "Eddy Celis" <ece...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
Tom Ruta wrote:
> Gee, how do I and others on my lake manage to ski day after day (I did
> 12 in a row at one point last season) - must be the water.
More likely the lack of intensity or number of passes you were actually pulled. You have
mentioned repeatedly what it takes to get a "couple" sets in.
> Lactic acid as the primary driver for muscle soreness has been out of
> favour (ie. mostly disproved) for about the last twenty years. In
> fact, there is considerable research to suggest that lactic acid plays
> a role in musc,le energy transport!
Then explain the improvement in performance that cyclists see when they have a deep
massage to work the lactic acid out between the daily stages of multistage races.
> Rehab like that in fact could do away with or limit elbow pain. Or
> increase it.
That was profound.
> get back to us after you hit 40 <G>.
What am I supposed to refer to you as an old fart now? Give it a rest! One of my ski
buddies is 42 and runs 5 miles every other day. He is in better shape now than I may
ever be in. His resting heart rate is about 40.
> >Tom, I'm sorry if you are not able to excercise the same day that you ski,
>
> Actually, I have access to a complete Nautilus center and free
> weights.
I wasn't saying that you didn't have "access" to equipment.
> Tell me again how aerobic work outs and water skiing relate??
They are complementary. A balance of strength training, aerobic training and
flexibility are helpful to prevent injury and achieve better health. Strength training
by itself tends to promote tight muscles with little flexibility.
Eddy
"Mark Kovalcson" <kova...@usit.net> wrote in message
news:3C02E660...@usit.net...
...
>More likely the lack of intensity or number of passes you were actually pulled.
When I free ski, it is usually 6-8 "passes" (sets of six turns" per
run. That is likely more or the same as you get.
>You have
>mentioned repeatedly what it takes to get a "couple" sets in.
Yeah, it is a hard walk the 40 feet to the dock to get the boat
started <G>.
>
>> Lactic acid as the primary driver for muscle soreness has been out of
>> favour (ie. mostly disproved) for about the last twenty years. In
>> fact, there is considerable research to suggest that lactic acid plays
>> a role in musc,le energy transport!
>
>Then explain the improvement in performance that cyclists see when they have a deep
>massage to work the lactic acid out between the daily stages of multistage races.
Firstly, it is you who talked about going to the gym to "work out
lactic acid" - that is not a massage, which does have some pretty
strong correlation to performance. And is it really lactic acid being
flushed?
>
>> Rehab like that in fact could do away with or limit elbow pain. Or
>> increase it.
>
>That was profound.
>
Yes, it was - over doing it is a great way to create more harm than
good.
>> get back to us after you hit 40 <G>.
>
>What am I supposed to refer to you as an old fart now?
Hey - you've called me worse <G>.
>Give it a rest! One of my ski
>buddies is 42 and runs 5 miles every other day. He is in better shape now than I may
>ever be in. His resting heart rate is about 40.
BFS - mine is about 44. And that is up since I did Ironman.
>
>> >Tom, I'm sorry if you are not able to excercise the same day that you ski,
>>
>> Actually, I have access to a complete Nautilus center and free
>> weights.
>
>I wasn't saying that you didn't have "access" to equipment.
>
And I wouldn't use them as you've recommended because what you really
need is an "active cool down". Consult a fitness professional in your
area for info.
>> Tell me again how aerobic work outs and water skiing relate??
>
>They are complementary. A balance of strength training, aerobic training and
>flexibility are helpful to prevent injury and achieve better health. Strength training
>by itself tends to promote tight muscles with little flexibility.
Very good - but not exactly answering the question. Strength and
aerobic training is vital to good waterskiing, but you also need to
look at the anaerobic side which is where waterskiing really rocks.
Tom
> >More likely the lack of intensity or number of passes you were actually pulled.
>
> When I free ski, it is usually 6-8 "passes" (sets of six turns" per
> run. That is likely more or the same as you get.
Tom, I'm sincerely not trying to be antagonistic. My ski buddies and I occassionally run 8
passes in one set and typically between 18-24 passes in a day. We usually ski 6 passes per
set resting every other pass and typically 3 or sometimes 4 sets and that is all in the
slalom course. I also don't think that we are alone in skiing this many passes in a typical
ski day.
> Yeah, it is a hard walk the 40 feet to the dock to get the boat
> started <G>.
I'm glad that you are enjoying it and I hope you enjoy it for many many years.
Please also understand that as much as you don't think taking 4-6 hours to get 18-24 passes
of slalom skiing in is worth it, some of us would have a lot of trouble getting excited
about 6-8 passes of free skiing no matter how convenient it was.
I think this thread is way off topic and not worth continuing at least for me.
> Please also understand that as much as you don't think taking 4-6
hours to get 18-24 passes
> of slalom skiing in is worth it, some of us would have a lot of
trouble getting excited
> about 6-8 passes of free skiing no matter how convenient it was.
ANY kind of skiing is worth it. Mark you have the benefit of a slalom
course all the time. The lake we ski on allows us to set it up about 2
or 3 times a year, so free skiing is great. A bad day at the lake is
better than a good day at work, course or no course.
...
>Tom, I'm sincerely not trying to be antagonistic.
Glad we got that cleared up. I sure like the "new" Mark
<G>.
>My ski buddies and I occassionally run 8
>passes in one set and typically between 18-24 passes in a day.
If you do the math on my runs you'll find that we ski
similar amounts. In addition, in free skiing I get lots of
time for drills (where the Sony mini-DV comes in AWFULY (or
just awful sometimes <G>) handy for instant feedback).
...
>Please also understand that as much as you don't think taking 4-6 hours to get 18-24 passes
>of slalom skiing in is worth it, some of us would have a lot of trouble getting excited
>about 6-8 passes of free skiing no matter how convenient it was.
When I want to we drive across the lake (a couple of miles)
and there's a slalom course there. Frankly, the free skiing
really helps in the course. You should try it. Esp. if you
can get a video camera - any kind.
>
>I think this thread is way off topic and not worth continuing at least for me.
I'l bring it back for you. How about warm down protocols
versus post-skiing pumping iron?
Tom
>
>
Actually, Strength training done properly increases flexibility. You
just need to do lift through the full range of motion. Thinking that
strength training decreases flexibility was a wifes tale from about 30
years ago.
However, I'm not saying aerobics and stretching aren't important. You
should really do all three to get the benefit of all-round fitness. I
just don't want people thinking strength training turns you into a
muscle bound body builder with no flexibility.
"...Strength training by itself tends to promote tight muscles with
little flexibility."
>
> > Rehab like that in fact could do away with or limit elbow pain. Or
> > increase it.
>
> That was profound.
LOL
To be fair there actually was content there. Read in context it is more
like Tom was making a your mileage may vary comment, letting people know
that while proper exercise can help overcome a problem, overdoing it or done
improperly an exercise could exacerbate the problem. I tend to repeat
solutions that I see work for someone or have worked for me personally
without disclaimers. Tom is just taking care of that oversight.
I'm just happy that it will be mid 60's and sunny this weekend :) Later.
It's definitely a more of a 'work out'
RAWSki
>I agree free skiing is good exercise and can even help you work on a problem
>you might be having in the course. And I enjoy the rythmn that you can develop
>on a nice long run..... But there is a higher level of intensity in the course
>that just can't be duplicated with out the limitations of those little rubber
>balls!
Very true. That is why every slalom skier should enter a tournament
once if only to see all the stress that comes from those six little
balls. Whole new ball game.
Tom
Ditto that!
Ed @ EZ-Slalom.com
Actually more skiers should buy portable courses and get 'addicted' like
myself, 4-5 times a week 2-3 sets per day....freeskiing is fine but this is a
great summer workout! And you don't even have to enter a tournament if you
want the challange without the 'stress'.
How's that Ed??
You're a man after my own heart, Mr. Walker! Actually I'm all for
anything that grows and popularizes our sport. If that means more
portable courses in circulation so much the better, I like that idea
<g>! I completely agree, getting the challenge without the stress IMO
is more fun anyway, is WAY more fun than open skiing, and it IS a heck
of a good workout (and most of us ski better in practice anyway,
right?). I just wish I could ski half as much as you do <sigh>.
However everyone should experience tournament jitters at least once,
just for the experience if for no other reason.
Personally one thing I'd really like to see is for the Corp of
Engineers etc to get their collective heads out and begin to set aside
areas of public lakes specifically for our sport. I posted an earlier
comment, in the thread from Bill Snook on the declining interest in 3
event, about a study the Corp commissioned in '99 concerning setting
aside portions of public waters for specific but separate uses
(skiing, PWC's, fishing, canoeing etc) thus enhancing the use of
public waters for everyone. Great idea but no follow through. It can
be done, and eventually MUST be done (such as Mark K and his club is
doing) or there will be even fewer public courses available than there
are now. In many areas of the country a portable is the only
available option now, and from my perspective that trend is only going
to continue and grow unless something changes with the attitudes of
the control authorities for public waterways. Good for me and my
little slalom course business I suppose, but not at all good for the
sport IMHO.
How do we change things? I suggest that the folks with the most to
gain (or lose) i.e. the Watersports Equipment Manufacturers
Association (or whatever the name of the watersports industry group
is) begin actively lobbying the government to begin implementing the
findings from the '99 study. Backed by a letter writing and e-mail
campaign from those of us who read this forum, AWSA membership, INT
League membership etc etc etc. I suggested this in the Bill Snook
thread and got absolutely no response. I'd be interested in some
thoughts on this.
Again - If we do what we always done, we get what we always got.
Ed Obermeier
EZ-Slalom Portable Slalom Courses
800-216-4461
www.ez-slalom.com