When did ski boat Mfg go all Fiberglass?
David Krohne
MasterCraft was first, in 83 or 84. Ski Supreme was second in 86.
During the first few years you may recall the Malibu ads the started out
"HAVE YOUR PLASTIC STRINGERS CRACKED YET" that they ran for a few years
to slam fiberglass construction. I believe that they finally caught up
around 92 or 93 and added "plastic stringers" to their boats. I am not
positive about correct craft, but I believe that they went all fiberglass
with the redesign of the Ski Nautique in 91.
**George_Mayer**
In article <4sk7me$12...@useneta1.news.prodigy.com>, VPC...@prodigy.com
(Larry Peterson) wrote:
> I am trying to find out when Mastercraft, Ski Natique and Malibu started
> building all fiberglass boats. I would also like to know When each of
> these
> started building open bow boats. Also are there any other Boat MFG who
> have been building all Fiberglass boats for a couple of years?
Mastercraft was the first back in 1983 with fiberglass stringers and
decking. Malibu I'm not sure of. Ski Nautique did it in 1994.
Mastercraft introduced it's open bow model tournament certified ski boat
in 1991. The others I'm not sure of.
George
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Larry Peterson
Dave & Carole
David Krohne wrote:
>
> During the first few years you may recall the Malibu ads the started out
> "HAVE YOUR PLASTIC STRINGERS CRACKED YET" that they ran for a few years
> to slam fiberglass construction.
Do fiberglass stringers really crack? I was under the impression that all
fiberglass construction was the way to go. No more dry rot.
Dave
Mark Kovalcson
To fill in some of the blanks
Malibu Echelons are all fiberglass from their introduction in 1993. The
Echelon LX is the first Malibu open bow to be all fiberglass. The
more recent Response LX's are very similiar. They in fact eliminated
all wood in the construction of their boats. The earlier Malibu Skiers
have wood in them.
I've never seen even the oldest Nautique with rotten stringers or a
spongy floor, but I believe they went to all fiberglass in the early
90's.
The oldest open bows with fiberglass floors and stringers may be the
MasterCraft 205 series, I'm not sure.
Ski Supreme started building all fiberglass in 1986.
Supra just started building all fiberglass in the last couple of years.
American Skiers have been all fiberglass for a while.
There are others.
Try to dig last last years WaterSki Magazine Boat Buyers Edition around
January/February for more information.
Barefootr
<<<<MasterCraft was first, in 83 or 84. Ski Supreme was second in 86.>>>>
Not to slam anything here, but are we talking stringers, or complete boat?
Some companies installed fiberglass stringers but kept using wood in other
less-structural areas for years. I'm not saything this is bad, just trying
to define the question and answers.
Also...are you sure that Ski Supreme went fiberglass in '86? Doesn't sound
right to me.
Bare.
_____________________________________________
Upper Valley Watersports Malibu Boats Promo Rep
In the business because I love the sport
HO Sports/Hyperlite * Straightline * Masterline * Eagle
^_____________________________________________^
BORDEN1000
In article <4smsrp$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, bare...@aol.com
(Barefootr) writes:
>Not to slam anything here, but are we talking stringers, or complete
boat?
>Some companies installed fiberglass stringers but kept using wood in
other
>less-structural areas for years. I'm not saything this is bad, just
trying
>to define the question and answers.
>
>
If I am not mistaken....the Mxxxxxxxxxt boats that I saw last year or the
year before still had plywood coaming pads. Can anyone confirm this ???
bl
ps Fiberglass is NOT the magical material that eliminates all problems.
Fiberglass, like Fir or plywood, is a material that needs to be prepared,
installed and glassed in place. Good materials combined with a
consistently good process creates good boats. A given boat is NOT
superior simply because they are "all glass"....
CRMUSE
>Not to slam anything here, but are we talking stringers, or complete
boat?
>Some companies installed fiberglass stringers but kept using wood in
other
>less-structural areas for years. I'm not saything this is bad, just
trying
>to define the question and answers.
>
>
Now THAT is the way to tip-toe around the flames. I think the original
post meant in the construction of the hull itself, and didn't refer to
platforms and such. I would shy away from a boat that used wood in the
floor or seat construction with what is known today. I say use wood only
on the platform and no where else.
Bob Muse
CRM...@aol.com
CRMUSE
>I am trying to find out when Mastercraft, Ski Natique and Malibu started
>building all fiberglass boats. I
If I remember correctly,(no pun intended) Correct Craft went wood free in
1993. They were later to do this than some of the other companies were.
CC said that they didn't wnat to do it untill they were sure it was right.
I don't think the Mastercraft process was perfected at first. I
regularly skied in one that had a bent windshield frame after hitting a
wake too hard. the construction techniques used then must've allowed
considerable flex to let the boat bend enough in the middle to bend the
frame of the windshield. Yes I am a devoted Correct Craft owner and
skier, and this is one of those experiences that shapes my opinion. I ski
with a friend that has a 94 MC and I love to ski behind it (the wake is a
little softer than a Nautiques but there is a rooster tail at 15 off
34-36mph), but I wouldn't want to own it.
Bob Muse
CRM...@aol.com
CRMUSE
In article <31EED9...@inreach.com>, Dave & Carole <d...@inreach.com>
writes:
> No more dry rot.
That is a contradiction of terms. Wood cannot rot without moisture. This
should seem obvious since most boats offer a good source of moisture to
find it's way to any wood that is exposed. The moisture makes the wood
hospitable for a fungus which decays the wood (a natural process to help
rid the earth of dead wood on the ground) If the wood is encased in
something that prevents the wood from getting wet, then it can't rot.
That is a trick to accomplish effectively though and thus the switch to
"no wood" construction.
Bob Muse
CRM...@aol.com
BORDEN1000
In article <4spjgh$j...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, crm...@aol.com (CRMUSE)
writes:
> I would shy away from a boat that used wood in the
>floor or seat construction with what is known today. I say use wood only
>on the platform and no where else.
I agree 100% with you Bob....but I would also give an allowance for a
Walnut knob in the shifter IF it is kept in good condition.
NO TEAK INSIDE THE BOAT...only the boarding platform.
bl
Seajmlvt
Has anyone heard of Grady-White boats? Hatteras? Cougar offshore racing
catamarans, turbine powered hydroplanes? These boats use encapsulated wood
stringers. They are offshore capable. Several have top speeds in excess of
100 MPH with 1000+ hp. I guess they just suck. Enjoy your life and this
sport. Ignore the marketing. Continue skiing, boarding, tubing,
etc...,and most importantly, JUST HAVE FUN!!!
Mr Seagull
CRMUSE wrote......
>In article <4smsrp$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, bare...@aol.com
>(Barefootr) writes:
>>Not to slam anything here, but are we talking stringers, or complete
>boat?
>>Some companies installed fiberglass stringers but kept using wood in
>other
>>less-structural areas for years. I'm not saything this is bad, just
>trying
>>to define the question and answers.
>>
>>
>Now THAT is the way to tip-toe around the flames. I think the original
>post meant in the construction of the hull itself, and didn't refer to
>platforms and such. I would shy away from a boat that used wood in the
>floor or seat construction with what is known today. I say use wood only
>on the platform and no where else.
>Bob Muse
>CRM...@aol.com
I agree...hull, deck, stringers, seats, etc...wood's gonna rot in any
of these area's. Fiberglass encapsulated wooden stringers may last
longer than unprotected ones...but they're gonna rot too, just takes a
little longer. I gotta admit that I'm partial to the teak platforms,
they look just beautiful when treated right. Course mine's removable
so I can replace it when I need to.
Michael DeMott
Tampa, FL
Mark Kovalcson
I think you missed the point. I've seen enough Ski Supreme's and
Supra's with new floors and many with replaced stringers, that for a
tournament ski boat it is more a worry. Last weekend a friend was
telling me how he had spent about 2 weeks replacing the floor in his
American Skier. I also recieved email stating that even Nautiques and
MasterCrafts have wood rot. When you are looking at a used boat and the
prospect of blowing about 2,500 dollars for a new floor and stringer
system it makes sense to look for all fiberglass construction.
Granted my old 1981 Supreme has original everything, but it was
trailered, stored indoors most of its life and I keep it under a roof.
Many other boats have to deal with lots of water sitting on the floor or
full bilges where a small crack in the fiberglass coating will let water
in to do its work!
CRMUSE
In article <4st2rn$s...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, seaj...@aol.com (Seajmlvt)
writes:
>These boats use encapsulated wood
>stringers. They are offshore capable. Several have top speeds in excess
of
>100 MPH with 1000+ hp. I guess they just suck. Enjoy your life and this
>sport. Ignore the marketing.
Once you have had to take your seats apart, your floor up, and your
stringers out to replace rotten wood, you will see that no wood
construction (yes, lets keep the wood platforms and shift knobs) is much
more than marketing hype. Like I said in an earlier post, encapsulated
stringers and other wood pieces are wonderful at protecting the wood from
moisture, but once it cracks somewhere.......It's just the beginning of
the end unless you keep your boat covered (under roof) and in a dry
atmosphere to starve that fungus of it's moisture.
Bob Muse
CRM...@aol.com
MQualkinbu
Here's a little something to think about. We know technology dictates we
use fiberglass stringers, but do we know if their proven over time. Wood
stringers have been around since boat building started and the percentage
of stringer damage is small. When the fiberglass stringers are 20 years
or older then will know the results.
I happen to think fiberglass stringers are the way to go but I just
wanted to throw out an observation. I also think we will see some other
material than fiberglass put in stringers in the future.
Mark
Kevin R. Clark
In article 4...@newsbf02.news.aol.com, mqual...@aol.com (MQualkinbu) writes:
>
> <snip>
>
> I also think we will see some other
>material than fiberglass put in stringers in the future.
>
>Mark
Yea, I wonder if carbon-reinforced composites are on the horizon. They're
used in many other similar applications...
Kevin Clark
Dallas, Texas
Kevin R. Clark
In article 8...@newsbf02.news.aol.com, borde...@aol.com (BORDEN1000) writes:
>
>I agree 100% with you Bob....but I would also give an allowance for a
>Walnut knob in the shifter IF it is kept in good condition.
I'll second the walnut knob... My Mastercraft came w/ a cheap plastic knob
that stripped out after a few years. I always complained about it, but never
got around to replacing it. A couple of years ago, my brother (a Nautique owner)
gave me a beautiful walnut shifter knob (w/ brass insert) that he picked up from
his local Nautique dealer...a very nice touch..!
Kevin Clark
Dallas, Texas
TJSSKIER
Mark, in ref to your coment about how long will fiberglass stringers
last.....
Just because a manufacture says they have no wood in the boat dosen't
mean its going to hold together or last a long time. Some manufactures
are useing alot of what they call "structural bonding adhesives" or "glue"
to put their fiberglass components together...(hull to stringers and
stringers
to inner liners) . Although this makes for quicker assembly of the parts
I don't believe it makes a good way to build a boat.
We just had an 88 glued together boat "unnamed for obvious reasons"
come in for repair after running up on a sand bar. The stringers,
hull and inner liner were totally pulled apart from the stern all the way
to the front of the motor. The boat is probly "totaled" but from the
outside
it looks just fine. The customer was stunned thinking he would just have
us replaced the underwater gear because there is no other obvious bottom
damage.
Speaking for the Nautique, I believe the stringers will last a long time.
There
are four of them, not two like in most boats. They are fiberglassed to
the
fiberglass hull, the floor is then fiberglassed from the sides across both
stringers into the bilge making the boat one intigrated unit. Hence the
name
"integrated composite stringer or ICS". The inboard stringers have
aluminum
laminated in the stringer to give even better support for the aluminum
engine
rack which holds the drivetrain in place and in alignment. Go for a ride
in
a Nautique and you can feel and hear the differance.
Fiberglass is the way to go in this type of boat, but don't assume that
all
are built to the same standards.
TJSSKIER/ Tim
BORDEN1000
In article <4t090n$4...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, mqual...@aol.com
(MQualkinbu) writes:
> When the fiberglass stringers are 20 years
>or older then will know the results.
Fiberglass stringers will ALWAYS be there. Weather they are bonded to the
bottom of the boat is another question. The wood "stringer" may not
always be there, but the fiberglass that should be around it will always
be there. Once again, it may or may not be bonded to the bottom of the
boat. Don't be thinking that a hunk of wood in the bottom of the boat
stiffens the hull....it is only when fiberglass is layed over the hunk of
wood (as a form) that stiffness is acheived.
Having said THAT, it does matter to you engine mounts / steering mounts
what sort of shape the wood stringer is in....
Neither avenue is acceptable if done poorly. If done correctly, either
can be an excellent method.
bl
Mark Kovalcson
I got a chance to see two identical signature edition Nautiques this
past weekend. Wow ! The build quality is phenomenal. I've visited the
Malibu factory and they build a great boat at a lower price point, and
I've seen the pitiful build quality and design of the latest batch of
MasterCrafts. How many of you have checked out the L brackets underneath
the rear facing seat on the new ProStars (aarrgghh !!!!). And just
forget anyone over there being able to sew in a straight line.
At this point I would probably buy a Malibu just based on bang for
the buck. ie. they cut corners where I won't mind, but as I told
someone else I bought a Toyota Avalon, but will always want the Lexus.
In my mind the Nautique is a Lexus.
To quote a friend of mine (MC owner) "You've got to try this driver's
seat out it's amazing !". Referring to the seats in one of the Nautiques
I was talking about. He's seriously thinking about trading up !
PS. check out my web site for Skiers of Knoxville, Inc
About the webmaster includes a picture of my current rig.
http://www.usit.net/public/kovalson
PPS. Does anyone besides MC glue their boats together ?
RAIBERT RJ
tjss...@aol.com says in his post:
>>Speaking for the Nautique, I believe the stringers will last a long
time.
>>There are four of them, not two like in most boats. They are
fiberglassed to
>>the fiberglass hull, the floor is then fiberglassed from the sides
across both
>>stringers into the bilge making the boat one intigrated unit. Hence the
>>name "integrated composite stringer or ICS".
Trick Skier,
You are correct here saying that the Correct Craft boats have four
stringers. Two stringers on each side of the motor box running lengthwise
of the boat.
However, could you actually say that the Correct Craft boats have 6
stringers? Yes, from seeing the boats built, there is also a "stringer"
running from side to side in the boat--one in front of the motor box and
one in back of the motor box.
Bob Raibert
email: raib...@aol.com (H)
EDS/Delphi Automotive Systems
email: LNUSIND...@gmeds.com (W)
Barefootr
<<<<<You are correct here saying that the Correct Craft boats have four
stringers. Two stringers on each side of the motor box running lengthwise
of the boat. >>>>>
Malibu's stringer system is a one-piece structural unit that is laid up
outside of the hull to within exact tolerances, and then fiberglassed into
the hull before the 1-piece fiberglass floor liner is laid in. Short of
seeing photos, the FIBECS stringer & engine chassis system looks like an
upside down tunnel hull mold. Very strong and light due to the design.
Bare.
RJ and I both represent the boat builders of our choice. :))
RAIBERT RJ
>>PPS. Does anyone besides MC glue their boats together ?
Malibu uses a bonding agent underneath the stringer but at least it is
glassed into the floor.
>>I've seen the pitiful build quality and design of the latest batch of
>>MasterCrafts. How many of you have checked out the L brackets underneath
>>the rear facing seat on the new ProStars (aarrgghh !!!!). And just
>>forget anyone over there being able to sew in a straight line.
Quite harsh on MC aren't you?
Rememeber MC is the master marketer and CC is the master builder. I would
say they are both doing an exceptional at their mission statement<grin>.
Knoxville is awesome for skiing--I am jealous.
Mark Kovalcson
The only reason I'm harsh with MasterCraft is that they've upset me.
I really liked their 1991-1994 boats, despite inconsistent finish work.
Their 1995 boat was very discouraging. I'm not complaining about the
wake or spray characteristics, just the handling(high in the water),
appearance(ugly), fit and finish (neglected), discontinued use of Ford
engines (heavy personal bias) etc...
One of the things I used to love on every year model before this was how
you could just drop it into neutral and flip the tail around(instant
180). Never more. Granted many modern boats no longer do this due to
deeper Vee hull designs but I loved it (adrenaline rush)!
--
************************************
* Check out the Skiers of Knoxville Web Site *
************************************
http://www.usit.net/public/kovalson
Chris Spragg
The side to side "stringers" are bulkheads. They greatly improve
torsional stifness along the fore-aft axis.
raib...@aol.com (RAIBERT RJ) wrote:
>Trick Skier,
>You are correct here saying that the Correct Craft boats have four
>stringers. Two stringers on each side of the motor box running lengthwise
>of the boat.
>However, could you actually say that the Correct Craft boats have 6
>stringers? Yes, from seeing the boats built, there is also a "stringer"
>running from side to side in the boat--one in front of the motor box and
>one in back of the motor box.
CRMUSE
In article <4tbq7u$9...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, bare...@aol.com
(Barefootr) writes:
>Malibu's stringer system is a one-piece structural unit that is laid up
>outside of the hull to within exact tolerances,
You can't have it both ways. It is either exact (not a possibility in
reality) or within set tolerances. If you say exact then there are no
tolerances allowed. If there are tolerances then you can't say it is
exact.
Barefootr
<<<<You can't have it both ways. It is either exact (not a possibility in
reality) or within set tolerances. If you say exact then there are no
tolerances allowed. If there are tolerances then you can't say it is
exact.>>>>>
My humble apologies on the use of English. "Set Tolerances" is a much
better term in this case.
Bare.
mollis...@gmail.com
> Has anyone heard of Grady-White boats? Hatteras? Cougar offshore racing
> 100 MPH with 1000+ hp. I guess they just suck. Enjoy your life and this
> etc...,and most importantly, JUST HAVE FUN!!!