What happened to Hydrodyne???
Thomas V. Lopresto II
Is anything happening with them past, present or future???
Just wondering!!!
Thanks in Advance,
Tommy
Philip Pointer
Epic, and it's no Hydrodyne.
HWallaceii wrote:
> I have heard that Toyota Epic is the old Hydrodyne. It is a good boat with
> fair power, but, not the world class 3 event boat that the Malibu, Correct
> Craft, and MasterCraft and Infinity are.
HWallaceii
Mark Kovalcson
and then went out of buisness.
Cobalt bought one set of their molds and put a boat into production
based on it.
Another company still makes the double Outboard boats based on their
design.
Otherwise, I don't know if anything is ticking.
--
Mark Kovalcson
http://www.perfectpull.com
Waterski Training Equipment
Mark Kovalcson
American Skier. Although Toyota considered introducing their engines in
Hydrodyne boats they wanted more control over their "destiny" in this
market and took more complete control.
Unfortunately, taking control of their destiny seems to have produced a
mediocre boat. Also since ski boats haven't had the reliability problems
that cars have been plagued with, I don't think Toyota will be able to
have much of an impact on this market. They are not cheap, they are not
top performers, and they don't do anything the best. I don't know many
people who are willing to buy a new boat that doesn't do anything
better, but costs a lot and is really just putting hours on their marine
engines to try to enter the I/O market. I am dissappointed with what
they did. My best discription of what they have done is a half assed
attempt and nothing more. This is not a market where a bland product
wins. House mom's shuttling kids around are not the primary market here
and somehow it looks like that is the direction they took in this
market.
What Infinity has done in a years time outstrips everything Toyota has
done in this market with all its resources. That says a lot for Infinity
and equally a lot for Toyota.
HWallaceii wrote:
>
> I have heard that Toyota Epic is the old Hydrodyne. It is a good boat with fair power, but, not the world class 3 event boat that the Malibu, Correct Craft, and MasterCraft and Infinity are.
--
Paul Oman
> Another company still makes the double Outboard boats based on their
> design.
Info on Dyna-Ski is at:
http://www.execpc.com/~sns/dynaski.html
New England Correct Craft
ski boat.
Craig
Thomas V. Lopresto II wrote in message
<01bf1a89$cecc4b00$a601...@ROGER.qwestinternet.net>...
kevin Baugh
--
Kevin R. Baugh
krb...@ezl.com
http://www.ezl.com/~krbaugh
http://www.ezl.com/~krbaugh/carla
Philip Pointer <ppoi...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:380D24EE...@mindspring.com...
> Nah, the Toyota is built down south by a bass boat manufacturer. I've
seen the
> Epic, and it's no Hydrodyne.
>
erich zellmer
>
> Anybody know what happened to Hydrodyne?
>
> Is anything happening with them past, present or future???
>
> Just wondering!!!
>
> Thanks in Advance,
> Tommy
There are some questions as to whether they will retain the balsa core
construction which really made Hydrodynes what they were, quiet, great
riding boats. The outboards are still sold, mainly to show ski teams, in
Wisconsin.
Mark Kovalcson
>
> As far as I know, Calabria does not own them, but is building them.
> There are some questions as to whether they will retain the balsa core
> construction which really made Hydrodynes what they were, quiet, great
> riding boats. The outboards are still sold, mainly to show ski teams, in Wisconsin.
I have trouble believing that Calabria is capable of building a boat to
the same quality that Hydrodyne did. Hydrodyne had an aluminum frame
that the engine and pylon attached to similar to CC's. They also had the
Baltec coring you mentioned, which they claimed was like that used in
off shore racing boats. There were lots of other things that they did
that are not in line with the typical construction of a Calabria. Their
lacquered rosewood dash, standard CD player in the glove box come to
mind. But the stuff you can't see is what I would wonder about.
BTW I saw a last year or second to last year model Hydrodyne recently.
It is pretty impressive. Solid and boxy comes to mind as well as very
functional with impeccable finish work. They did something with the
passenger seat that was interesting. The seat back is on sliders and
slides up vertically rather than hinging out at you. They also used PCM
engines instead of the Mercruisers that Calabria typically uses.
Calabria and Hydrodyne just seem to be at opposite ends of the spectrum.
Hydrodyne used to claim 50 years of boat building experience and had
heritage.
brian_...@yahoo.com
them.
Cobalt did purchase Hydrodyne's newer inboard molds and has used them to
build their new inboard ski boat models.
However, the "Hydrodyne" brand name was purchased along with some of the
older molds by an individual (whose name I do not believe it is necessary
for me to disclose). I understand that the future plan is for a current
West Coast ski boat builder (again, I'll let them announce it themselves
when they see fit) to build Hydrodyne inboards using the "Hydrodyne"
name.
Some of Hydrodyne's outboard molds were sold to a company in Indiana
producing the boats under the Dyna-ski name. A lot of these I understand
are twin rigs (300-500hp or so) sold in Wisconsin to pull ski shows,
including those world record size 35-40 person pyramids.
Hopefully this has been helpful to you,
Brian Grieser, PE
Naval Architect/Marine Engineer
Hydrodyne Boat Company, 1989-1993
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Thomas V. Lopresto II
Tom
Mark Kovalcson
better. I put Hydrodyne, CC, and American Skier in a similar category for
high quality construction. If you understand the difference between
construction in a CC vs. a Calabria, the same would apply for a Hydrodyne.
Performance is another issue all together.
"Thomas V. Lopresto II" wrote:
Mark Beggs
>Naval Architect/Marine Engineer
Oh, you must design HOUSEboats. <g> Sorry, couldn't resist.
...Mark
Tom Ruta
>They don't. A more correct question would be why was Hydrodyne so much
>better. I put Hydrodyne, CC, and American Skier in a similar category for
>high quality construction.
What? No Infiniti?
Tom
Mark Kovalcson
I need to see for myself. I'll tell you about it in February if I can
arrange to tour of the plant and a drive and ski. I understand the
interior is buttoned down now since IMTEC. I think that I like their
flange deck hull joint. The engine mounts sound good. I need to see one
being constructed up close and drive and ski it before I can say
anything with authority, but they really have my attention. My first
impression is that this is a very solid boat. In just about every
ergonomic way, I like this boat. If it skis well and drives as well as I
keep hearing.......
I understand I that Eagle trailers is all set up to build trailers for
them :) The base PCM engine should be fine. The only big question on
buying one of these would be which speed control system to select. I
like PP's ergonomics and Accuski's feature list.
Ray Pulley
>
>Mark Kovalcson <ma...@perfectpull.com> wrote:
>
>>They don't. A more correct question would be why was Hydrodyne so much
>>better. I put Hydrodyne, CC, and American Skier in a similar category for
>>high quality construction.
>
Just a note: Aren't two of those three out of business?
I do not care how well built a boat is, or how long they WERE in business if
they fall on their butt and leave me with an orphan.
Although there are many business failures in the world, one has to look at the
big picture and realize that the only job of a business is to make money now and
in the future.
Sorry, but it really does not matter how well a boat was built or that they had
great ideas if the net result was a complete rejection by the market.
The real test is going to come when the US economy tanks the next time. That
will sort out the men from the boys in this niche market.
Ray
Ray Pulley
>
>Ray Pulley wrote:
>
>>Just a note: Aren't two of those three out of business? I do not care how well
>>built a boat is, or how long they WERE in business if they fall on their butt
>>and
>> leave me with an orphan.
>
>years
>now.
Thanks for the update on Am Skier, they are rare enough out here that I wasn't
really sure.
Hydrodyne may be gone now, but they were in the buisness 50 years back in
>1996 and their designs live on.
>
>>Although there are many business failures in the world, one has to look at the
>>big
>>picture and realize that the only job of a business is to make money now and in
>> the future.
>
>So you are saying that you don't care how good a product is as long as the
>manufacturer is solvent ? There are lots of companies making cheap products and
>lots of money. That doesn't mean I admire them.
>
You have a bad habit of putting words in people's mouths. Either that or you
cannot see ANYTHING but your own view. Please point out where I said anything
about cheap. BTW, every product, at any price point, has a targeted market
segment. The definition of quality is simple, and it has nothing to do with
"cheap" or even anything the competition might be doing. It is just conformance
to requirements.
McDonalds may be a "cheap" meal, but it is not a poor quality meal based upon
the target market and the consistency of the product world-wide.
>>Sorry, but it really does not matter how well a boat was built or that they had
>> great ideas if the net result was a complete rejection by the market.
>
>You really miss out on a lot of things in life if you discount the visionaries
>and
>innovators because they didn't make it big. That is probably one of the
>smallist
>minded comments you have ever made. A great idea is not defined by market
>acceptance if it really was a great idea.
No, it is irrelevant, actually. It is a business and the point is to make money.
I assume that they were not a charity, nor were they giving boats away, right?
Therefore the ONLY reason for anything in, on, or around the product was to SELL
it. Duh. You sell to make a profit the last time I checked. If you cannot peddle
your "great ideas" when you are in business, then they are useless unless they
reduce cost. In the grand scheme of doing business an idea or design that costs
more and returns nothing to the business (no extra sales, no higher prices,
whatever) but the admiration other engineers is not a great idea at all. It is
poor business management, plain and simple.
>
>>The real test is going to come when the US economy tanks the next time. That
>>will
>> sort out the men from the boys in this niche market.
>
>True enough, but that still has nothing to do with the quality of a boat. When
>true
>innovation is lost do to an economic down turn, that is a loss even if you are
>thinking in terms of survival of the fittest. You have lost unique parts of the
>gene pool that may be lost forever.
>
Nonsense. The best fit for the market, at a price and cost that allows for
profitability in the long haul is all that matters, although there is plenty of
room for innovation and good design within that window. It's not like we get to
design and choose the features of the boat we want. We can only choose from what
is on the market based upon what THEY choose to give us. Innovation for the sake
of innovation, no matter how clever, is just a gimmick if no one will pay for
it. That was the point. Got it now?
Ray
Mark Kovalcson
> Just a note: Aren't two of those three out of business? I do not care how well
> built a boat is, or how long they WERE in business if they fall on their butt and
> leave me with an orphan.
No. American Skier was even at IMTEC. Ron Tanis has been at the helm for a few years
now. Hydrodyne may be gone now, but they were in the buisness 50 years back in
1996 and their designs live on.
> Although there are many business failures in the world, one has to look at the big
> picture and realize that the only job of a business is to make money now and in
> the future.
So you are saying that you don't care how good a product is as long as the
manufacturer is solvent ? There are lots of companies making cheap products and
lots of money. That doesn't mean I admire them.
> Sorry, but it really does not matter how well a boat was built or that they had
> great ideas if the net result was a complete rejection by the market.
You really miss out on a lot of things in life if you discount the visionaries and
innovators because they didn't make it big. That is probably one of the smallist
minded comments you have ever made. A great idea is not defined by market
acceptance if it really was a great idea.
> The real test is going to come when the US economy tanks the next time. That will
> sort out the men from the boys in this niche market.
True enough, but that still has nothing to do with the quality of a boat. When true
innovation is lost do to an economic down turn, that is a loss even if you are
thinking in terms of survival of the fittest. You have lost unique parts of the
gene pool that may be lost forever.
--
MQualkinbu
>had
>great ideas if the net result was a complete rejection by the market.
>
If an idea is good the market will not reject it.
>The real test is going to come when the US economy tanks the next time. That
>will sort out the men from the boys in this niche market.
>
>
You will be surprised by what you will see. The higher priced boats will
survive. Niche market is right on the money and luxury item is right on the
money. Boats like Cobalt, CC, MC, SR(big boats), etc. will survive due to a
customer base that is less likely to be influenced by a recession. I'm not
saying they will maintain high production numbers but they will survive easier
than entry & mid level boat companies.
Mark
Mark Kovalcson
>
> You have a bad habit of putting words in people's mouths. Either that or you cannot see ANYTHING but your own view.
Actually I try to look at thinks from other people's vantage points to
understand their motivations.
> Please point out where I said anything about cheap.
These are your statements from you last post. Please check if you like.
You said, "Sorry, but it really does not matter how well a boat was
built or that they had great ideas if the net result was a complete
rejection by the market."
You also said, " I do not care how well built a boat is, or how long
they WERE in business if they fall on their butt and leave me with an
orphan."
My interpretation of your remarks is that a boat that is not well built
and without great ideas is fine by you as long as they are still in
buisness. You are correct that you did not specifically use the word
cheap.
Frankly as a consumer I would rather have a phenomenal product that
takes care of my needs, than anything else.
> No, it is irrelevant, actually. It is a business and the point is to make money. I assume that they were not a charity, nor were they giving boats away, right?
A buisness needs to make money to stay alive. There is no arguing with
that. There are many ways to conduct buisness though. Maximizing
profits is not the reason some buisnesses are in buisness. I have been
told that if you primary motivation in buisness is not to make money you
will fail.
> Therefore the ONLY reason for anything in, on, or around the product was to SELL it. Duh. You sell to make a profit the last time I checked.
I'll agree with that. I first went into buisness with an idea for
something that I wanted for myself. For me, designing a good product was
part of it. Finding out that others wanted my product was part of it.
Admittedly there was some ego involved there. Learning how to get
something in production was part of it. Learning ins and out of
advertising, distribution methods, etc... are all part of it. Learning
what volumes are necessary to pay overhead and still make a profit while
keeping a product at a reasonable price are another. I guess a large
part of my perceived profit is the knowledge I am gaining. I'm looking
forward to putting the slalom case into production, because it is what I
want, and I think it fills a need. I'll be happy if I break even on it,
but ideally I will make money.
>If you cannot peddle your "great ideas" when you are in business, then they are useless unless they reduce cost.
I would admit there is salesmanship in engineering. I can't tell you how
many times I have had to sell management on an idea to improve things.
Also the market is not always ready for a better mousetrap. Sometimes a
truely better product misses out on market acceptance because the masses
need baby steps instead of a jump to something unfamiliar.
>In the grand scheme of doing business an idea or design that costs more and returns nothing to the business (no extra sales, no higher prices, whatever) but the admiration other engineers is not a great idea at all. It is poor business management, plain and simple.
The term marginally better than the competition comes to mind. Anything
more than marginally better is always a waste of resources, unless it
can be built in with an upfront cost that is already being incured and
it might be harder to introduce later, when your competitor may adopt
it. Staying marginally better is a tought balancing act. If you use up
all you good ideas at once. The competition can catch up in a year or
so. If you wait to long to use ideas, someone else can beat you to the
punch. The other option is to stay a year or so behind and incorporate
the winning ideas from other companies and avoid all the R&D. In some
markets this works in others it is suicide.
> Nonsense. The best fit for the market, at a price and cost that allows for profitability in the long haul is all that matters, although there is plenty of room for innovation and good design within that window.
I think the loss of Tucker cars was very unfortunate. Theirs was a case
where the big three toasted them before they hit the market, but it was
a superior product that was WAY ahead of its time. There was no window
to allow this company to advance the industry. Consumers everywhere lost
out.
> It's not like we get to design and choose the features of the boat we want. We can only choose from what is on the market based upon what THEY choose to give us.
Unless you decide to build your own or adapt a given product to your
needs. Many products are great starting points.
> Innovation for the sake of innovation, no matter how clever, is just a gimmick if no one will pay for it. That was the point. Got it now?
You are now equating innovation with a gimmick depending on market
acceptance. Oh yeah, I've got it.
I prefer to decide for myself if an idea is innovative, rather going
along with the masses in a decision like that.
kevin Baugh
--
MQualkinbu <mqual...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991023073835...@ng-bh1.aol.com...
> >Sorry, but it really does not matter how well a boat was built or that
they
> >had
> >great ideas if the net result was a complete rejection by the market.
> >
>
> If an idea is good the market will not reject it.
Not necessarily The Macintosh look and feel was copied by Microsoft but the
Mac product has almost competley been rejected.
on the other hand I gues you could say that it was not rejected because
someone else new what parts to copy and how to market it.
>
Glen Baurhyte
outboards.
*************
Glen Baurhyte
Ray Pulley
says...
>
>>Sorry, but it really does not matter how well a boat was built or that they
>>had
>>great ideas if the net result was a complete rejection by the market.
>>
>
>If an idea is good the market will not reject it.
>
Bingo! Exactly my point.
>>The real test is going to come when the US economy tanks the next time. That
>>will sort out the men from the boys in this niche market.
>>
>>
>
>You will be surprised by what you will see. The higher priced boats will
>survive. Niche market is right on the money and luxury item is right on the
>money. Boats like Cobalt, CC, MC, SR(big boats), etc. will survive due to a
>customer base that is less likely to be influenced by a recession. I'm not
>saying they will maintain high production numbers but they will survive easier
>than entry & mid level boat companies.
>
>Mark
>
I agree, with the caveat that those with the fattest bankroll and the leanest
operation increase the odds of surviving the hard times. Those with the high
debt and high inventory will be hurting. So far, demand has allowed price
increases in this industry that have kept almost everyone afloat and even
allowed for a few new players (ala Toyota and Infinity).
Ray
Steve Wilkinson
I have a '94 Hydrodyne Grand Sport that my family and I love. Last
summer the Hydrodyne decal on the side of the boat was damaged during
mooring. Any idea who I might contact to find a replacement?
--
SKIUL8R
==================================================================
Steve Wilkinson : Silicon Graphics Computer Systems
Mfg.Eng./Water Skier : Worldwide Manufacturing Operations
Ph: (650) 933-1096 : Mail Stop: 12L-820
Fax: (650) 933-0956 : 2011 N. Shoreline Blvd.
E-Mail: ste...@mfg.sgi.com : Mountain View, CA 94043-1389
Pager: (650) 694-8173 : CB Handle: SideWinder
`
``
`` __ 0___|>-----------------______._0\_____
``` / / / HydroDyne /
```` /\ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
````` //
``````--------'
"Never confuse having a career with having a life"
==================================================================
Tom Ruta
<ste...@mfg.sgi.com> wrote:
>Brian,
>
>I have a '94 Hydrodyne Grand Sport that my family and I love. Last
>summer the Hydrodyne decal on the side of the boat was damaged during
>mooring. Any idea who I might contact to find a replacement?
Try the Calabria folks who own some of Hydrodyne. Or better yet get a
local sign shop to duplicate the decals. There is also Universal
Graphics in Goddard KS who makes a lot of the new boat decals.
Tom
brian_...@yahoo.com
Graphics in Holt, Michigan, so you could try contacting them, but they'll
probably want to sell you about 1000 of them. You could also wait until
Hydrodyne is up and running under its new ownership and try them to see
if they purchased any of the old decals with the company.
Or, your best bet may actually be to take your boat to a custom vinyl/
graphics shop and have them match the decal on the "good" side of your
boat. (Has anyone tried this or have any better suggestions?)
If you need to purchase a minimum quantity, let me know because I would
probably purchase about 10 of them for myself, friends, and family with
Hydrodynes. (I have a beautiful blue and white '93 Inboard Comp with well
over 2000 hours on the original engine that my wife and I will not give
up anytime soon!)
This is probably about the best I can do -- others may have more
experience with such searches.
Good luck,
Brian
but In article <3816272F...@mfg.sgi.com>,
Steve Wilkinson <ste...@mfg.sgi.com> wrote:
> Brian,
>
> I have a '94 Hydrodyne Grand Sport that my family and I love. Last
> summer the Hydrodyne decal on the side of the boat was damaged during
> mooring. Any idea who I might contact to find a replacement?
> --
> SKIUL8R
>
> ==================================================================
> Steve Wilkinson : Silicon Graphics Computer Systems
> Mfg.Eng./Water Skier : Worldwide Manufacturing Operations
> Ph: (650) 933-1096 : Mail Stop: 12L-820
> Fax: (650) 933-0956 : 2011 N. Shoreline Blvd.
> E-Mail: ste...@mfg.sgi.com : Mountain View, CA 94043-1389
> Pager: (650) 694-8173 : CB Handle: SideWinder
> `
> ``
> `` __ 0___|>-----------------______._0\_____
> ``` / / / HydroDyne /
> ```` /\ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ````` //
> ``````--------'
> "Never confuse having a career with having a life"
> ==================================================================
>
