Skiing with Rear Cleat on Back of Competition Ski Boat-Why not?

[SkiinDean]

Dear Fellows Enthusiasts,
I've been beating myself up over the decision to buy an open bow MC or
CC. I am not getting into which manufacturer , just basically going to an
open bow. My main concerns are the family issues, 1 wife and 3 little
kids and room. I've been used to the MC Prostar 190 and the regular CC
Ski. They both are much better than the Sport Nautique and the MC 205 for
wake characteristics and handling. Sooooo, why can't I keep with my
thoughts and ski my kids and wife from the back cleat; and still have lots
of room ...and not need an open bow. My wife slaloms on open water at the
full line length, my kids use trainers or a kneeboard, or they foot
directly on the boom, or I tow them on the tube. So, when I ski we'll
rearrange the boat...but I ask "Why not use the rear cleat for the rest of
my family, which mostly do recreational skiing"? And continue to look to
buy the smaller, more nimble ski boats that are ideal for skiing. I would
be interested in your opinions. Thanks, Dean

[IHVMYEP]

There is really no problem usig the back pylon, it will give you a very
similar pull, just put you farther back in the wake. I personally
wouldn't do it just because the tracking is reduced and since I regularly
ski competitions it could throw me off training behind a different wake.
It was my thought that the 97 Nautique OB was the same as the closed bow
wake wise and driving wise, maybe I'm wrong. I know the MC 205 is bigger
and doesn't track as well as the Nautique, neither does the 190 though.
Just my opinion, rip it apart if you please.
Scott

[Kevin Clark]

SkiinDean wrote:
>
> Dear Fellows Enthusiasts,
> I've been beating myself up over the decision to buy an open bow MC or

> CC. <snip> ..but I ask "Why not use the rear cleat for the rest of

> my family, which mostly do recreational skiing"? And continue to look to
> buy the smaller, more nimble ski boats that are ideal for skiing. I would
> be interested in your opinions. Thanks, Dean

Dean,

Sure, the rear cleat is O.K. for kids and such...

Another thing you might try for times when you are skiing...

I always use the pylon and when faced w/ a full boat, I have 1 or 2
passengers sit facing backward w/ their backs leaning up against the
engine housing and butts on the floor. The rope will go right overhead
as you ski unless you have Dennis Rodman skiing w/ you. Be careful as
your pulling up your skier to make sure the rope is clear. Also, for
some engine housing (those w/ cup holders and such) this may not work
too well.

Kevin Clark
Dallas, Texas
'86 MC ProStar

[Greg Wait]

All Ski Nautique Open Bow models regardless of year are built on the same hull as the closed bow.  Wake characteristics are probably altered slightly due to a difference in weight and trim.  The Open Bow is slightly heavier than the closed, and I would guess that the weight is oriented slightly forward of the original.  Or so I understood.
-- 
Greg Wait <zo...@behindtheboat.com>
The on-line source for information on boat-towed activities.
Behind the Boat - "If you’re not on the water, you might as well be here."

[kdaug...@aol.com]

In article <32F5FE...@behindtheboat.com>, Greg Wait
<zo...@behindtheboat.com> writes:

>All Ski Nautique Open Bow models regardless of year are built on the
>same hull as the closed bow. Wake characteristics are probably altered
>slightly due to a difference in weight and trim. The Open Bow is
>slightly heavier than the closed, and I would guess that the weight is
>oriented slightly forward of the original. Or so I understood.

It is my understanding that the windshield of a Ski Nautique Open Bow is
pushed 11 inches further back than an ordinary Ski Nautique, and that the
engine is pushed 5 inches back. The skiing experience is reportedly quite
similar, though not exact.

The '97s no longer have the rear mini-pylon. There is no longer any room
because CC went to a center mounted lifting ring. It is possible to tie
onto that lifting ring to ski from the transom if the boat is full of
people.

Ken Daughters

[Donna C. Oldfield]

SkiinDean (skii...@aol.com) wrote:
: Dear Fellows Enthusiasts,
: wake characteristics and handling. Sooooo, why can't I keep with my

: thoughts and ski my kids and wife from the back cleat; and still have lots
: of room ...and not need an open bow. My wife slaloms on open water at the
: full line length, my kids use trainers or a kneeboard, or they foot
: directly on the boom, or I tow them on the tube. So, when I ski we'll

: rearrange the boat...but I ask "Why not use the rear cleat for the rest of

: my family, which mostly do recreational skiing"? And continue to look to
: buy the smaller, more nimble ski boats that are ideal for skiing. I would
: be interested in your opinions. Thanks, Dean

Dean,

Just a couple of thoughts -

1. Just because your wife is a "recreational skiier" doesn't mean she
doesn't like the better pull you get from a pylon as opposed to the rear
cleat. Might want to ask her if this is a consideration for her.

2. As your kids get better, they most likely _are_ going to care more
about this issue.

3. From a possible psychological viewpoint, this sets you up as
"special", and might start to cause some friction in your family along the
lines of why we all have to rearrange the boat so you can get a better
skiing experience, when they don't get the same consideration.

These are, again, some possible considerations you might want to think
about. You may find that compromising a little on the maneuverability and
wake characteristics of your boat will get you a family who is more
willing and interested in enjoying skiing with you.

Good luck.

--
- Donna | Pardon me, but did you say
d...@dana.ucc.nau.edu | you were a neuropsychologist
Hit It! | or a psycho-neurologist?

[Steve Cobb]

The wake of the 97 SNOB really IS different from the 97 closed-box, because
the SNOB retains the same 16 degree prop shaft angle that the 90-96 boats
had (due, I believe, to having to mount the engine further back than in the
closed bow), whereas the angle on the 97 closed-bow has been reduced to 14
degrees (which puts the prop clser to the hull and, as a result, reduces
the height of the rooster tail).

> All Ski Nautique Open Bow models regardless of year are built on the
> same hull as the closed bow. Wake characteristics are probably altered
> slightly due to a difference in weight and trim. The Open Bow is
> slightly heavier than the closed, and I would guess that the weight is
> oriented slightly forward of the original. Or so I understood.

[Scooter]

Who told you that the back cleat could not be used? For experienced
slalom and wakeboarders, I wouldn't try it because they will pull the
back of the boat and you'll have terrible tracking, but for your wife at
full line, open water and kids tubing, no problem. Watch the rope, it's
probably easier to run over.

Scooter

[CRMUSE]

According to the CC web site both boats are identical in weight. I
thought that was odd that the boats would be exactly the same. I think
someone probably just assumed something.

[Kris Trahan]

One other consideration.... we found that we had trouble keeping the
rope out of the water while kneeboarding using the rear cleat. It was
awful. The rope would drag in the water every now and then and yank the
handle right out of your hands. I highly recommend an open bow.... we
just bought a Malibu Response LX (with a "step through" open bow). The
hull is exactly the same as the closed bow. In addition to the bow
seating, you've still got a full two person observer seat. The pricing
wasn't much different and we've loved having the extra seating as an
option. I believe Nautique also makes the "step through" open bow.
Good luck!

[BBradstr]

Another perspective on sking off the rear cleat:

Normally the cleat is lower (closer to the water & rooster tail/wakes)
when sking off the rear cleat as compared to sking off the pylon. This
raises the possibility of the rope snagging on the wake as the skier is
going back and forth. For little kids where they do not have the weight to
pull the rope tight, this is even more important.

We will use the rear cleat - sometimes - when we are pulling a bumper
tube. Any time pulling a skier, especially a child or beginner, we pull
off the pylon. This gives a better pull.

Brad
BBradstr @ aol.com

[david lawrence baxter]

We have found the a extended pylon helps. As long as you are not
putting hard cuts on the extended pylon is great for about everything.
It is great for teaching beginners because of the upward pull it just
lifts them out of the water. My only skis a couple of times a year (on 2
skis) found the extended pylon to be great. He said that his arms used
to hurt and getting up was harder on him. He skied more this year that
he has in the past 2 combined because of the extended pylon. It is nice
to use when you have a lot of people in the boat since the back seat it
open and the bow still can still hold people too. You get the benefits
of it being easier and you have more room at the same time.

david
dlba...@uiuc.edu

[Scott Lippman]

Kevin Clark <cla...@aud.alcatel.com> wrote:

>SkiinDean wrote:
>>
>> Dear Fellows Enthusiasts,
>> I've been beating myself up over the decision to buy an open bow MC or

>> CC. <snip> ..but I ask "Why not use the rear cleat for the rest of

>> my family, which mostly do recreational skiing"? And continue to look to
>> buy the smaller, more nimble ski boats that are ideal for skiing. I would
>> be interested in your opinions. Thanks, Dean

>Dean,

> Sure, the rear cleat is O.K. for kids and such...

> Another thing you might try for times when you are skiing...

> I always use the pylon and when faced w/ a full boat, I have 1 or 2
>passengers sit facing backward w/ their backs leaning up against the
>engine housing and butts on the floor. The rope will go right overhead
>as you ski unless you have Dennis Rodman skiing w/ you. Be careful as
>your pulling up your skier to make sure the rope is clear. Also, for
>some engine housing (those w/ cup holders and such) this may not work
>too well.

>Kevin Clark
>Dallas, Texas
>'86 MC ProStar

Dean:

You might want to give some thought to how much more nimble the closed
bow is over an open bow, like a MC Prostar 205. It's only 1ft. longer
and you've got the space if you need it. Plus, it skis almost exactly
the same or better than most closed bows.

S.L.
Gainesville, Ga.
'93MC ProStar 205

[crm...@aol.com]

In article <5de9il$8...@usenet81.supernews.com>, st...@ilinks.net (Scott
Lippman) writes:

>
>You might want to give some thought to how much more nimble the closed
>bow is over an open bow, like a MC Prostar 205. It's only 1ft. longer
>and you've got the space if you need it. Plus, it skis almost exactly
>the same or better than most closed bows.

I notice a definite difference in a Sport Nautique and a Ski Nautique
closed or open bow. the Sport is clearly more sluggish and less nimble
when turning around or manuevering at the dock. I don't have experience
in the MC open bows so I can't comment.