Malibu Sunsetter LXi Problem
Paul Smith
However, there is a serious problem. The boat is taking on water, and a lot
of it. Enough to kick on the automatic bilge.
All drain plugs were in.
Any ideas? I'm going back out tomorrow to finish the break-in hours. I'll
remove all drain plugs and re-install them to make sure they are threaded
right and tight.
Tom Ruta
wrote:
...
>However, there is a serious problem. The boat is taking on water, and a lot
>of it. Enough to kick on the automatic bilge.
...
I'd start with fittings (raw water, packing gland, etc.) After that,
exhaust and maybe the dampening system. Do you have the Perfect Pass
paddle wheel? Check that too.
Tom
Paul Smith
news:t8rg7uomidgrgmifv...@4ax.com...
> I'd start with fittings (raw water, packing gland, etc.) After that,
> exhaust and maybe the dampening system. Do you have the Perfect Pass
> paddle wheel? Check that too.
Yes, I have a paddle wheel. And, I just went out to the garage and there is
a little pool of water directly under the paddle wheel. That's gotta be it.
Suggestions?
Tom Ruta
wrote:
...
>Yes, I have a paddle wheel. And, I just went out to the garage and there is
>a little pool of water directly under the paddle wheel. That's gotta be it.
>Suggestions?
>
Assuming the water is ingressing there. why not see if it egresses
there as well?? Can your pour some water into that area and see if it
drains out? Maybe they didn't seal it well (or used some sealant
instead of silicone)
Tom
Doug Meredith
"Paul Smith" <pes...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a0%d8.36111$4x.11...@typhoon.san.rr.com...
> Yes, I have a paddle wheel. And, I just went out to the garage and
there is
> a little pool of water directly under the paddle wheel. That's gotta
be it.
> Suggestions?
When my friends Response leaked, we filled the bilge with water and
looked for the leak. Found it by the hydro damping system. Should work
the same for the paddle wheel, if that is where its leaking. Water has
a way of going all over, so you have to watch closly to see where it is
really leaking.
Paul Smith
water definitely got in through the paddle wheel assembly. What a bummer.
Tom Ruta
wrote:
>There is more than a little pool under the paddle wheel, actually. The
>water definitely got in through the paddle wheel assembly. What a bummer.
>
Don't panic - could be something very simple like a bad seal (easily
fixable since the whole is there already. BTW, was it factory
installed?) or maybe a crack in the paddle wheel itself. Here's some
shots that might help http://www.malibuboatowners.com/ppass2.htm or
http://www.perfectpass.com/ppinstallation.html#Step%203
Tom
Paul Smith
a bucket of water in the bilge and it looks like there is a slow drip from
the drain plug. I got under the boat and watched it drip straight from the
plug. I unscrewed it and screwed it back in prior to the test and it
dripped.
So, this stinks. My dealer is an hour and a half away. Now I have to make
a trip up there (they are closed on Sunday and Monday, by the way) before my
20 hour checkup.
$46k for a boat and it leaks. My lord.
Tom Ruta
wrote:
>Actually, thanks for the recommendations, guys. As you suggested, I dumped
>a bucket of water in the bilge and it looks like there is a slow drip from
>the drain plug. I got under the boat and watched it drip straight from the
>plug. I unscrewed it and screwed it back in prior to the test and it
>dripped.
>
Dripping from the plug itself? What happens (not that you should, but
bear with me) if you use Teflon plumber's tape on the plug?
Maybe they could just Fedex one up? Or is it leaking from the fitting
itself?
>So, this stinks. My dealer is an hour and a half away. Now I have to make
>a trip up there (they are closed on Sunday and Monday, by the way) before my
>20 hour checkup.
>
>$46k for a boat and it leaks. My lord.
>
Since Malibu tests water tests them, it is surprising, but not unheard
of. And your dealer should have noted it as well. It sucks to be
sure. Bad on someone.
Tom
Kevin R Baugh
complain about this system leaking
Kevin
"Doug Meredith" <dou...@rcn.net.com> wrote in message
news:a59v6n$l7m$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
Paul Smith
> Since Malibu tests water tests them, it is surprising, but not unheard
> of. And your dealer should have noted it as well. It sucks to be
> sure. Bad on someone.
Here's the interesting scenario on this. The sales guy is taking me through
the boat. He shows me the drain plug in the bilge. I happen to notice
there is a plug sitting in the cup holder by the observer seat. I ask him
about it. He doesn't know why its there and says it must be an extra for
me.
I'll bet anything someone at my dealer DID notice there was a problem and
figured he'ds replace the plug. But, he forgot two things. First, he
forgot to test the second plug. Second, he left the old plug sitting in the
cup holder.
So now, instead of finishing my break-in hours tomorrow so that I can ski
next weekend, my new $46k investment will sit in my garage. I'm going to
call them when they open on Tuesday and demand that someone come down here
and pick the boat back up from my house and deliver it back to me after its
been fixed and fully checked. We'll see how far that gets me.
Not a good experience so far, Mr. Malibu. You've been building top-tier
boats for how long now and you don't know how to ensure drain plugs don't
leak??????
Mark Kovalcson
difference in the world on my Ski Supreme's center plug. No matter how hard I
tightened it, water still seeped in. With the teflon tape it was water tight.
Give this a shot and enjoy your weekend instead of fuming about it. You'll be
glad you did. There are much bigger things in life to waste getting upset on.
Tom Ruta
wrote:
...
>Here's the interesting scenario on this. The sales guy is taking me through
>the boat.
Did your dealer do a water test? Malibu's delivery protocol is to do
an "on water" walk through with the customer. They brag about it in
the last WSM BBG. WHen I got my boat my dealer spent 1n hour and a
half with me, even though I had a pretty good idea what all was
involved. I appreciated the info and time.
>He shows me the drain plug in the bilge. I happen to notice
>there is a plug sitting in the cup holder by the observer seat. I ask him
>about it. He doesn't know why its there and says it must be an extra for
>me.
A brass plug? Your PerfectPass should have come with a spare plug to
replace the paddle wheel in transit, but a drain plug? (Note to self:
maybe I should have an extra one in the toolkit incase I accidentally
drop it into the lake or something).
>
>I'll bet anything someone at my dealer DID notice there was a problem and
>figured he'ds replace the plug. But, he forgot two things. First, he
>forgot to test the second plug. Second, he left the old plug sitting in the
>cup holder.
Let's hope that is not the case. I'd give him a chance to make it
right then I'd call Merced.
>
>So now, instead of finishing my break-in hours tomorrow so that I can ski
>next weekend, my new $46k investment will sit in my garage.
If the water is handy, do some R&D (yeah, I know it is not your fault,
but on the water is better than off it)
>I'm going to
>call them when they open on Tuesday and demand that someone come down here
>and pick the boat back up from my house and deliver it back to me after its
>been fixed and fully checked. We'll see how far that gets me.
>
He sure as heck should make it "right" if it is his fault.
>Not a good experience so far, Mr. Malibu. You've been building top-tier
>boats for how long now and you don't know how to ensure drain plugs don't
>leak??????
>
Keep us posted.
Tom
Brent Bland
I feel your pain. I bought a new Response last year that had MAJOR leakage.
I took it back to my dealer (hour and a half one way) and picked it up a
week later. After I brought it back home guess what....yeah that's right it
still leaked and over the next few weeks it got much worse. When I took it
back to the dealer the 2nd time I called Malibu and explained the problem to
Don Woods who assured me it would get taken care of. I called the dealer a
few days later to check in and they told me that their tech had a fire at
his house and was taking a week off. As you know for yourself Pissed Off
didn't even begin to describe my feelings at the time. When I finally picked
up the boat the 2nd time it was fixed. I was barely able to keep my temper
under control mainly because I feel I'm better off having the best
relationship possible with my dealer. You never know you could wind up at
his mercy.
My leak was coming from the Hyrophonic Dampening System. When you put water
in the boat it dripped (poured is a better word) from where the shaft comes
through the hull. The bilge pump ran all the time.
If you can take Mark's advice and try not to get too upset. Speaking from
having the same experience I know exactly how you feel but don't worry they
will get it fixed for you. You'll be much better off spending your energy
enjoying your boat rather than on being pissed.
Good Luck
Brent
"Paul Smith" <pes...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pS0e8.36496$4x.11...@typhoon.san.rr.com...
Tom Ruta
wrote:
...
>
>My leak was coming from the Hyrophonic Dampening System. When you put water
>in the boat it dripped (poured is a better word) from where the shaft comes
>through the hull. The bilge pump ran all the time.
...
Was that an Tennessee built boat?
I'm surprised to hear that last year there were any incidents at all
since M had this issue a few years back and would have been expected
to straighten that out once and for all.
Tom
Paul Smith
I guess my concern over all of this, and especially hearing stories like
yours, is how in the heck a reputable boat dealer can continue putting out
leaky boats. I mean, these aren't Bayliners. They are $40k boats. They
say they test every boat on the water, but I guess I can't believe they do,
otherwise I wouldn't (and you wouldn't have had) a leaky boat.
I'm also concerned over Tom's input that Malibu claims it does on-water
inspection witht he customer when they deliver the boat. That was NEVER
offered to me at all. On top of that, they took my old boat on consignment
three weeks ago and as PART OF THE DEAL they said they would detail it,
including waxing, and get it sold. Well, I show up to pick up my boat
yesterday and take a walk out to the lot to take a gander at my old boat.
It was sitting there without the cover on, completely filthy as it
apparently was rained on, and it literally hasn't been touched since I
dropped it off. YIKES! I was not pleased, to say the least. Their
response: "my boat wash guy has been flaking out on me and not showing up,
but I'll get it over to where we do the new boats and have them clean it up
right away." We'll see.
I'm going back out to the water today and we'll see what happens. I'm
putting teflon tape on the drain plug I suspect is leaking and we'll see
what happens. As I put the boat into the water I'm going to have everything
open so that I can observe any water coming in.
Thanks for the help everyone! Without this forum I probably would have to
be institutionalized for insanity.
Tom Ruta
wrote:
...
>I guess my concern over all of this, and especially hearing stories like
>yours, is how in the heck a reputable boat dealer can continue putting out
>leaky boats.
Both the mfg. and dealer need to share the responsibility for this and
many other issues.
>I mean, these aren't Bayliners. They are $40k boats. They
>say they test every boat on the water, but I guess I can't believe they do,
>otherwise I wouldn't (and you wouldn't have had) a leaky boat.
They have (they claim) a 40 point lake test done at the factory and I
have pictures of my boat being tested in Merced (so they tested mine
<G>)
>
>I'm also concerned over Tom's input that Malibu claims it does on-water
>inspection witht he customer when they deliver the boat. That was NEVER
>offered to me at all.
Pg 108 of the WSM BBG - "on water orientation... recommended but not
mandatory".
>On top of that, they took my old boat on consignment
>three weeks ago and as PART OF THE DEAL they said they would detail it,
>including waxing, and get it sold. Well, I show up to pick up my boat
>yesterday and take a walk out to the lot to take a gander at my old boat.
>It was sitting there without the cover on, completely filthy as it
>apparently was rained on, and it literally hasn't been touched since I
>dropped it off. YIKES! I was not pleased, to say the least. Their
>response: "my boat wash guy has been flaking out on me and not showing up,
>but I'll get it over to where we do the new boats and have them clean it up
>right away." We'll see.
NLATC - you shouldn't have to, but I guess it needs to be in the
contract with a penalty clause. Who's the dealer?
>
>I'm going back out to the water today and we'll see what happens. I'm
>putting teflon tape on the drain plug I suspect is leaking and we'll see
>what happens. As I put the boat into the water I'm going to have everything
>open so that I can observe any water coming in.
>
One other thing to keep in mind is that you'll need to go back and
tighten things like hose clamps. Even *I* can do that maintenance.
>Thanks for the help everyone! Without this forum I probably would have to
>be institutionalized for insanity.
I can understand the frustration but hang in there! Enjoy it (go for
a ski!!)
Tom
Kevin R Baugh
System.
Kevin
"Tom Ruta" <ru...@cadvision.com> wrote in message
news:1n8i7ugftqce24sk5...@4ax.com...
Tom Ruta
<krb...@ezlspam.com> wrote:
>That problem won't go away until they stop using Hyrophonic Dampening
>System.
You won't get an argument from me on that - I thought it was a bad
idea from the get-go.
Tom
Tom Ruta
<krb...@ezlspam.com> wrote:
>That problem won't go away until they stop using Hyrophonic Dampening
>System.
Interesting how the V-drives don't use it...
Tom
Paul Smith
Prepping the boat for the water today, I stepped on the platform step on the
trailer and it went flying off and I almost killed myself.
Dropped it in the water and it continued to fill up with water in the bilge.
Perfect pass paddle wheel seems to be leaking a small amount. Center drain
plug seems to be leaking a little. Somewhere up near the MLS in the ski
locker it is leaking a lot. It leaks when sitting at idle. It pours in
when you take the boat up to speed. It seems to leak worse the faster you
go.
Filled up the MLS sack to test that out. Then went to drain it and it won't
drain. Now I have about 400lbs of water sitting in the middle of the boat
that won't drain.
We noticed a sharp odor along the lines of burning wires coming from the
engine compartment.
We pulled up to the dock to take a restroom break and found that there was
enough water in the bilge, DESPITE RUNNING THE BILGE PUMP ALMOST THE ENTIRE
TIME, to seep up through the back of the carpet into a puddle. Needless to
say we immediately put the boat on the trailer and came home.
This whole thing has been a disaster. From being told at the boat show that
"you really can't put enough options on this boat to put it much, if any,
above $38k" and then being quoted $42k as an actual quote (from which they
refused to come down at all), to showing up and finding my old boat hadn't
been covered up in three weeks of sitting on their lot and was not at all
detailed as they promised, but rather was in much, much worse shape then
when we left it, to finding that the new boat leaks badly, to the MLS not
draining, to.... what's next?
Has anyone ever actually returned a ski boat as a "lemon"?
Mark Kovalcson
> The comedy continues....
OK, I have to admit at this point that I would be pissed off at Malibu for
putting out a boat like that. I've had my share of beating Malibu up over the
years because I don't like how they build boats and this only reaffirms my
feelings about their workmanship. Well at least they can guarantee the boat and
maybe even give you a new one if it is really screwed up. Malibu does have a
good track record in that department. Since Malibu says that they water test
each of their boats before they ship them to the dealership, this not only shows
poor manufacturing techniques, but also a lack of promised QA from Malibu and
your dealership.
I won't repeat my suggestion for you to have fun with that boat, since I don't
want anyone to get hurt. The electrical smells sound scary. Make sure they are
traced down so you don't have something bite you later. The best I can suggest
now is to make sure your dealer or Malibu cleans up this mess and then try to
enjoy it afterwards. Hopefully you will get the fun you hoped for and this will
eventually because a bad memory in the past.
Brent Bland
know a potential for this problem exists I was very disappointed to get a
boat that did this. It's down right unacceptable and gives good reason to
question their quality control. Still, I love the boat. I just went to a
boat show last weekend and can honestly say I didn't see a boat that would
suit me better than the Malibu Response.
When I picked up my boat my dealer had no access to water on which to run it
because of high water. He offered for me to bring it back later for a demo
run but it seemed rather silly for me to take it home, run it, and then take
it back for an "on the water test." I guess he could have offered to travel
somewhere to do it but he didn't. I don't know if I should have expected
him to or not. At the time I was so exited about getting the boat that I
didn't care but if I had it to do over I'd probably insist on it before
parting with the cash.
Paul - I think it's time for you to get on the phone w/ Malibu. I know
you're frustrated. You shouldn't have to be dealing with these problems.
Nevertheless, I'm confident Malibu will come through and do what's necessary
to make your boat right.
Brent
"Tom Ruta" <ru...@cadvision.com> wrote in message
news:1n8i7ugftqce24sk5...@4ax.com...
Kevin R Baugh
Definitely a problematic design with very questionable results.
Kevin
Tom Ruta <ru...@cadvision.com> wrote in message news:<t4di7ug0t30pe9djv...@4ax.com>...
Mark Kovalcson
Brent Bland wrote:
> Yes. My boat was built in Tennessee about this time last year.
Since Paul lives in CA, it is pretty likely that his boat came out of Merced.
> Since they know a potential for this problem exists I was very disappointed to
> get a
> boat that did this. It's down right unacceptable and gives good reason to
> question their quality control.
Absolutely!
> When I picked up my boat my dealer had no access to water on which to run it
> because of high water. He offered for me to bring it back later for a demo
> run but it seemed rather silly for me to take it home, run it, and then take
> it back for an "on the water test." I guess he could have offered to travel
> somewhere to do it but he didn't.
My dealer delivered the boat and water tested it here. Of course my boat had
over 3 hours on the engine already and had been dialed in on a record tolerance
slalom course. I would NEVER have parted with money without water testing the
boat. The following day I went out with a full crew and we SKIED!
> Paul - I think it's time for you to get on the phone w/ Malibu. I know
> you're frustrated. You shouldn't have to be dealing with these problems.
> Nevertheless, I'm confident Malibu will come through and do what's necessary
> to make your boat right.
I agree with Brett 100%. Malibu has a good history of standing behind their
product and fixing problems. My guess is that they already know about this issue
just from watching this forum or will know about it on Monday.
> "Tom Ruta" <ru...@cadvision.com> wrote in message
>
> > I'm surprised to hear that last year there were any incidents at all
> > since M had this issue a few years back and would have been expected
> > to straighten that out once and for all.
Tom, there is a saying that you are a fool if you expect things to improve
without making changes. Tell me how Malibu is building their hydrophonic damping
systems differently now than they did before and explain how that will fix this
problem.
Kelvin
from Walmart (approx $1.98 US). This could keep you skiing until your
20 hour checkup.
I agree it should not leak, but once this is past, you will enjoy
your new M.
Tom Ruta
wrote:
...
>> Yes. My boat was built in Tennessee about this time last year.
>
>Since Paul lives in CA, it is pretty likely that his boat came out of Merced.
Perhaps. But over the last several years, it has been the TN plant
with all the "issues". Although the boats I saw come off the line
this model year are much improved (at least cosmetically).
>
>> Since they know a potential for this problem exists I was very disappointed to
>> get a
>> boat that did this. It's down right unacceptable and gives good reason to
>> question their quality control.
>
>Absolutely!
Er... one or even a few out of thousands is not prima facie evidence
of poor control (although zero defect should be the goal).
...
>My dealer delivered the boat and water tested it here.
For the amount you paid, sure.
>Of course my boat had
>over 3 hours on the engine already and had been dialed in on a record tolerance
>slalom course. I would NEVER have parted with money without water testing the
>boat. ...
I agree with you there.
>
Tom
Tom Ruta
>No what's the fun in that ! :-)
>Definitely a problematic design with very questionable results.
Well, every then we can agree on some things. My objection to this
goes back several years and is well documented.
Speaking of changes, I did at one time predict changes to this and am
sorry it has not yet happened. Notice that M has now added (optional
in some models) sound suppression technology to the lay up. I hope
they dump the live well before I shop again!
Tom
Tom Ruta
>If the teflon tape on the plug doesn't work try a rubber tipped plug
>from Walmart (approx $1.98 US). This could keep you skiing until your
>20 hour checkup.
I'd send the bill to the dealer.
Tom
Tom Ruta
wrote:
...
>Has anyone ever actually returned a ski boat as a "lemon"?
>
AFAIK there are no lemon laws in any state for boats. In fact the
NMMA is fighting the potential introduction of one in GA or SC or
abouts there.
Tom
Paul Smith
> AFAIK there are no lemon laws in any state for boats. In fact the
> NMMA is fighting the potential introduction of one in GA or SC or
> abouts there.
No, I'm not asking whether there are lemon laws. I'm asking whether anyone
has ever successfully returned a lemon. I'm not saying (at this point at
least, my mind may change) that they are under a legal obligation to take
the boat back and refund my money, although that may be something I pursue
if they do not aggressively try to rectify this entire disastrous situation.
Tom Ruta
wrote:
...
>No, I'm not asking whether there are lemon laws. I'm asking whether anyone
>has ever successfully returned a lemon.
Without a law dictating such aa thing, your recourse is mfg./dealer
benevolence or a private civil action. Of course a lemon law would
allow that to happen much more easily. Info on laws here:
http://63.236.237.146/government/lemon.html
> I'm not saying (at this point at
>least, my mind may change) that they are under a legal obligation to take
>the boat back and refund my money,
There's practically no legal obligation for them to do so without a
lemon law.
>although that may be something I pursue
>if they do not aggressively try to rectify this entire disastrous situation.
I think you need to find out why this thing is the way it is. I know
it would PMO beyond belief. I'd get on the phone to Merced ASAP
tomorrow AM.
Tom
Glen Reeder
> be institutionalized for insanity.
Paul,
I understand that you are upset but come on, stuff happens. You need
to give your dealer and M a chance to make things right. I gaurantee
you that this isn't the worst thing that will happen to you during
your "boating life". Relax and everything will work out just fine. If
it doesn't you can "get even" at the time of your next boat purchase.
Glen
Paul Smith
news:3c1875b7.02022...@posting.google.com...
> I understand that you are upset but come on, stuff happens. You need
> to give your dealer and M a chance to make things right. I gaurantee
> you that this isn't the worst thing that will happen to you during
> your "boating life". Relax and everything will work out just fine. If
> it doesn't you can "get even" at the time of your next boat purchase.
Stuff happens? The boat almost sinks? The MLS won't drain? Something
smells like burning wire? My dealer forgot to put on the CF numbers? My
dealer let my old boat rot in the lot without a cover in the rain for three
weeks despite promising to wash, wax and detail it for me?
We'll see how right they make things. If they do it right, I'll be the
first one to come on here and sing their praises.
Tom Ruta
...
> I understand that you are upset but come on, stuff happens. You need
>to give your dealer and M a chance to make things right.
"Stuff" is like Mark's shower cracking because it was not drained.
This is not my definition of "stuff".
>I gaurantee
>you that this isn't the worst thing that will happen to you during
>your "boating life".
I sure hope it is!
> Relax and everything will work out just fine.
Let's hope M and the dealer do step up to the plate (I know M likely
will)
> If
>it doesn't you can "get even" at the time of your next boat purchase.
I have to disagree. For the kind of cash we are talking this should
not happen.
Tom
Deke
dealer is an hour and a half away. My bet is that the dealer will travel to
the customer's site and if they can't repair on the spot will tow back to
their shop. This is embarrassing but you have to tell the guy what's going
on. Save the emotions for when he doesn't respond. As to M stepping to the
plate... they will, but not without involving the dealer.
--
Deke
Bob McMahon
Malibu and this guys dealer. It should not have gotten past the factories
prepping. Or Much less the dealer. Shame on them both.
So I'll put my two cents worth in. Malibu has had some problems with the
Hydro box leaking in the past. But let me ask this, does the boat have a
heater?
My boat leaked from day one after I purchased it. I took the boat to the
factory in TN to have it repaired. Picked it up and they said it was the box
leaking and they tightened the packing. Checked it and no leaks.
Picked up the boat and first time out, within 30 minutes had several gallons
of water in the bilge. I was pissed.
After about a hour I noticed that the water did not get much deeper while
sitting. Only got worse while running it. Then it hit me!!! The dam heater
is leaking.
Sure enough, I crawled under the dash while the wife drove the boat. It was
a gusher. Turned off the engine and no water.
Evidently the dealer had never drained the heater prior to my receiving it.
The boat had set outside covered for months before I bought it.
Malibu sent me a new heater and I installed it myself to keep from having to
travel to far to the dealer. They threw in a couple of super nice beach
towels and other accessories to make up for it. I was happy once again. Now
my boat never gets water in the bilge.
Bob
"Tom Ruta" <ru...@cadvision.com> wrote in message
news:afsi7ukgfl74a77id...@4ax.com...
Paul Smith
the hockey game didn't help things) my wife and I went out and got in the
boat, turned on some tunes, and just sat there, learning the stereo controls
better, admiring all the features, whiping things down, just chatting. I do
love this boat. It just leaks (and the MLS won't drain, although it drained
now that I got home with the boat on a hill with the bow facing uphill).
Hopefully when I talk to the dealer on Tuesday morning he will come down to
my house and pick it up, fix it, test it thoroughly on the water, and then
deliver it back to me once he's sure it doesn't leak anymore (and the MLS is
fixed and there is no burning wire smell coming from the engine box).
I still think it in inexcusable that a boat could get to the customer in
this kind of condition, but hopefully they will knock my socks off by making
things right.
Thanks again for all the help guys and I will keep you informed.
Paul Smith
point I'm done trying to figure it out. I just want the dealer to come and
get it and bring it back to me when it doesn't leak.
Peter Brown/Smooth Water Sports
Paul has gotten the raw deal at this point, for his new boat is extremely
unsatisfactory. But the first call, at the first sign of ANY problem, is to
the dealer you purchased it from. This is their responsibility first. If
you don't, the aggravation will likely continue to a much higher level, as
this situation has.
Malibu does test each boat. But since we do not know the cause yet of this
water leak, everyone is speculating on the cause. That's the wrong way to
solve a problem.
Call the dealer. Call him at work, call him at home, doesn't matter where,
just call him. If he cannot handle the issue promptly and professionally,
then you need to call the manufacturer.
Paul, there are a few areas that could bring water into the boat at that
rate. There is a drain plug under the ballast system in the main locker.
There is also the potential for the ballast pumps or bladder fittings to be
the culprit, after your comment about not being able to drain it. Tell the
dealer about everything you've tried, to help them determine what's causing
the problem. A cracked fitting on the pump for the MLS would cause all of
your problems. But, I don't know, nor does anyone else on this forum.
Please call your dealer.
FYI - After the water test Malibu drains the engine and components, prior to
shipping to the dealer. From that point on it's the dealer's responsibility
to properly prep, test, and deliver the boat. I'm sure that when Paul gets
his customer survey, he'll indicate his feelings accurately, and Malibu will
take action as needed.
Thanks,
Peter.
Smooth Water Sports
> From: "Bob McMahon" <b...@mcmahon.com>
> Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
> Newsgroups: rec.sport.waterski
> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 19:34:31 -0600
> Subject: Re: Malibu Sunsetter LXi Problem
>
Brent Bland
of poor control (although zero defect should be the goal)."
I would agree with your statement. On the other hand quality control is a
slam dunk here. A simple test will detect this problem with ease. This
isn't a nit pick issue, we're talking about a guy that just shelled out 40K+
for a boat that literally will not hold water.
I don't know what kind of testing was done to my boat before I picked it up
but since my hour meter read .1 my guess would be very little.
I have a question for you more tech savvy guys about this hydrophonic
dampening system. Why is it a bad idea? What's wrong with it?
Brent
"Tom Ruta" <ru...@cadvision.com> wrote in message
news:etri7ucdgi1diioh1...@4ax.com...
Tom Ruta
wrote:
>After spending the afternoon in a quiet depression (watching the USA lose
>the hockey game didn't help things) ...
And the Canadian women's victory didn't help either.... Ca-na-da!!!
Tom
Paul Smith
know I've been venting here on this forum but had to do it somewhere and I
appreciate that everyone has been understanding. It has been very helpful
to me.
Even if my dealer does cartwheels all the way down here to get the boat,
fixes it in 10 minutes, then does cartwheels all the way back, this still
should never have happened in my opinion. Although, I'll be very
appreciative if he comes and gets it, fixes it promptly, and gets it back to
me without it leaking anymore.
Everyone should know (and I think I made this clear earlier) this is not
some kind of isolated incident. My entire experience in getting this boat
has been a real downer. Imagine showing up at the dealer 3 weeks after you
dropped off your boat for consignment and finding it uncovered and untouched
and rained upon and filthy dirty after they promised to get it all cleaned
up and sold!? That doesn't exactly instill optimism in me that my current
problems with this new boat that I just shelled out $45K+ to get out the
door will be fixed efficiently and thoroughly. But I remain hopeful they
will surprise me.
As someone else pointed out, however you or Malibu or anyone else wants to
spin this, the bottom line is I'm a guy who just paid $45k+ for a boat that
can't hold water out.
Mark Kovalcson
> "Stuff" is like Mark's shower cracking because it was not drained.
> This is not my definition of "stuff".
Actually I think that was just a defective handle since it was a pin hole
(or air pocket in the plactic) and not a crack. I ran my fingernail down
the black part of the handle and it started to mist a little. I can't
fault the dealer for that. He had a new one to me in 3 days and the one I
had was functional.
Brent Bland
dealer until AFTER he has a chance to make it right.
Brent
"Paul Smith" <pes...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2fhe8.38659$4x.12...@typhoon.san.rr.com...
Tom Ruta
wrote:
>"Er... one or even a few out of thousands is not prima facie evidence
>of poor control (although zero defect should be the goal)."
>
>I would agree with your statement. On the other hand quality control is a
>slam dunk here. A simple test will detect this problem with ease. This
>isn't a nit pick issue, we're talking about a guy that just shelled out 40K+
>for a boat that literally will not hold water.
I agree. Since the boats are tested at the factory and one expects
the dealer to do final prep, it shouldn't leave the showroom or boat
yard.
>
>I don't know what kind of testing was done to my boat before I picked it up
>but since my hour meter read .1 my guess would be very little.
>
That the hour meter shows .1 means nothing. You need to hook it up to
a scan tool to see the real hours. BTW, the hour meter on my engine
and aire/water gauge do not agree.
Tom
Tom Ruta
wrote:
..
>I have a question for you more tech savvy guys about this hydrophonic
>dampening system. Why is it a bad idea? What's wrong with it?
I challenge anyone to show me that water dampens sound. The v-drives
don't have it so it is likely not a structural necessity.
Here's my theory: they use the box to strengthen the hull. They
could do this a lot of ways, but chose this and then the marketing
guys got a hold of it....
Tom
Tom Ruta
wrote:
...
>Actually I think that was just a defective handle since it was a pin hole
>(or air pocket in the plactic) and not a crack. I ran my fingernail down
>the black part of the handle and it started to mist a little. I can't
>fault the dealer for that. He had a new one to me in 3 days and the one I
>had was functional.
Well, he didn't drain the system in freezing temps, but no matter,
this is still "stuff".
Tom
Doug Meredith
> Stuff happens? The boat almost sinks? The MLS won't drain?
Something
> smells like burning wire? My dealer forgot to put on the CF numbers?
My
> dealer let my old boat rot in the lot without a cover in the rain for
three
> weeks despite promising to wash, wax and detail it for me?
>
> We'll see how right they make things. If they do it right, I'll be
the
> first one to come on here and sing their praises.
As Peter at Smooth Water Sports said, wait until you talk to the dealer
to see what they say/do. If they don't help you, then its time to call
Malibu, but not until the dealer is talked to, and has his chance. He
will probably make it right.
As far as your old boat, the best I can say is that I've been in almost
that same situation with other boats. My mistake was that the dealer
"told" me that he was going to do something. I ended up pulling it, and
selling it myself for the same thing he would have gotten. I'm not
gonna pick on all dealers, and say this is true, because it isn't, but
remember, he already has your money. If he can sell a new boat or a
trade boat that he owns, he is going to sell it long before he tries to
sell yours.
Tom Ruta
<dou...@rcn.net.com> wrote:
...
>As Peter at Smooth Water Sports said, wait until you talk to the dealer
>to see what they say/do. If they don't help you, then its time to call
>Malibu, but not until the dealer is talked to, and has his chance. He
>will probably make it right.
...
Regardless, I'd still write or call Malibu and let them know. This
kind of thing, no matter how it is fixed up, deserves comments.
Alkema reads the (e)mail.
Tom
Paul Smith
doesn't quite float <G>, I've posted them at the following address. Click
on the Malibu folder.
http://photos.yahoo.com/peslaw
I have to say that if you take the MLS and leak problems away, we're
ecstatic about the boat. I'm so glad we sprung for all the options. Can't
think of one so far I don't want. The heaters were AWESOME on our first
trip out when it got pretty chilly around dusk but we didn't want to get off
the water. My daughter found her new favorite place when its chilly, in the
walk-through with the glass windshield in next to the heater.
Doug Meredith
> By the way, if anyone wants to check out a few pictures of our new
boat that
> doesn't quite float <G>, I've posted them at the following address.
Click
> on the Malibu folder.
>
> http://photos.yahoo.com/peslaw
at least the wife and kids look happy in the pictures. Thats a VERY
good thing. <g> and the boat IS floating in the pictures. <vbg>
Kevin R Baugh
Kevin
"Deke" <de...@tohellride.not> wrote in message
news:B89ED68C.3291%de...@tohellride.not...
Kevin R Baugh
make sure they understand. Make sure you stay calm and give them a chance to
fix the problems.
Kevin
"Brent Bland" <bab...@socket.net> wrote in message
news:u7j8m5e...@corp.supernews.com...
Kevin R Baugh
factor in a boat purchase. Most if not all of this could have been and
should have been caught at the dealership, Not to mention the other problems
at the dealership.
Kevin
"Paul Smith" <pes...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:RTee8.38637$4x.11...@typhoon.san.rr.com...
Kevin R Baugh
stop noise. The box introduces another point for the boat to leak sine it
does not work as advertised then it is only a potential problem. IMHO
Kevin
"Tom Ruta" <ru...@cadvision.com> wrote in message
news:sq8j7ukctai605qt7...@4ax.com...
Mark Kovalcson
Kevin R Baugh wrote:
> Now this is getting disturbing. Tom You are right water does not nor will it
> stop noise. The box introduces another point for the boat to leak sine it
> does not work as advertised then it is only a potential problem. IMHO
Not only that but this new breakthrough was introduced when they started using a
hull with liner. Since the weight didn't jump through the ceiling, this means
the hull is thinner which may have been why they did this originally.
Tom Ruta
wrote:
...
>Not only that but this new breakthrough was introduced when they started using a
>hull with liner. Since the weight didn't jump through the ceiling, this means
>the hull is thinner which may have been why they did this originally.
So what?
Tom
Glen Reeder
> This is not my definition of "stuff".
I don't mean to play down Pauls problems with his new boat as minor or
trivial with calling things "stuff", but it seems to me that if a boat
is leaking so badly that there is a possibility of it sinking it
shouldn't be tough to find out where the water is coming in. It
sounds like Paul can't exactly tell where the water is coming from,
hasn't even talked to the dealer, and is on this forum asking for
answers to questions that none of us can answer without seeing his
boat. Next he is talking about "lemon laws" etc., possibly returning
the boat and talking about QC issues with M. It seems to me that Paul
may not be too "mechanically inclined" and he should first let his
dealer try to solve his problems. If the dealer can't satisfy him go
to M, if M can't make him happy then start talking lemon laws, returns
or legal action.
I'm only saying that I think he should give his dealer an opportunity
to correct any problems before getting too worked up.
P.S. If nothing else Paul you have truly made Mark K's day:)
Glen
Tom Ruta
...<points well taken snipped>
>I'm only saying that I think he should give his dealer an opportunity
>to correct any problems before getting too worked up.
>
Agreed. A rational approach.
>P.S. If nothing else Paul you have truly made Mark K's day:)
Yeah, well, we won't tell him about other boats problems, shall we?
<G>
Tom
Tom Ruta
wrote:
>Would you be so sanguine if you bought a new car and the brakes only
>worked half the time when you stepped on the pedal?
>
Clearly you've never checked the NTSB or Alldata sites. ALL mfg.'ed
goods have a DOA/defect rate.
>That's kinda like what we're talking about here - something that could
>conceivably sink the boat (cause an accident.)
Hardly - we are talking about water inflow of an unknown origin (yes,
cause for concern to be sure) and of a consumer who seems to have
leaks from all points (strikes me as odd, but anything is possible I
guess)
>
>Why do people put up with this level of non-quality in the marine space?
Look - we are talking about ONE boat out of thousands. What's that
percentage wise? Besides, there are literally tens of thousands of
M's floating quite nicely TYVM. I'm not saying this situation is
acceptable but some facts might be nice.
>IMHO, a manufacturer who can't get this right should be run out of town on
>a rail - period, end of discussion, end of game, set and match.
That would include them all if you want to be exhaustive.
.
Tom
Mark Olesen
> By the way, if anyone wants to check out a few pictures of our new boat
that
> doesn't quite float <G>, I've posted them at the following address. Click
> on the Malibu folder.
>
> http://photos.yahoo.com/peslaw
>
She's a good looking boat. I'm sure that between your dealer and Malibu you
will get the problems fixed and you will really enjoy the boat.
> I have to say that if you take the MLS and leak problems away, we're
> ecstatic about the boat. I'm so glad we sprung for all the options.
Can't
> think of one so far I don't want. The heaters were AWESOME on our first
> trip out when it got pretty chilly around dusk but we didn't want to get
off
> the water. My daughter found her new favorite place when its chilly, in
the
> walk-through with the glass windshield in next to the heater.
>
My daughter likes it there as well.
Mark
Michael Rothwell
got cold enuf (usually doesn't here, but I wasn't willing to take that chance).
Anyway, when I put the heater hose back on, I didn't tighten it enuf. after
about a half hour of running, I had several gallons of water in my bilge. This
concerned me - but when I stuck my hand in and felt that it was quite warm
water, it scared me to death. I thought that maybe I had left some water
somewhere and had cracked the block water jacket. Took it out of the water and
home - found that the hose had come off and was pumping water straight into the
bilge. I now double check that hose after putting it back on.
Michael
Bob McMahon wrote:
> Well after reading all the post about this, I must say I am disappointed in
> Malibu and this guys dealer. It should not have gotten past the factories
> prepping. Or Much less the dealer. Shame on them both.
> So I'll put my two cents worth in. Malibu has had some problems with the
> Hydro box leaking in the past. But let me ask this, does the boat have a
> heater?
> My boat leaked from day one after I purchased it. I took the boat to the
> factory in TN to have it repaired. Picked it up and they said it was the box
> leaking and they tightened the packing. Checked it and no leaks.
> Picked up the boat and first time out, within 30 minutes had several gallons
> of water in the bilge. I was pissed.
> After about a hour I noticed that the water did not get much deeper while
> sitting. Only got worse while running it. Then it hit me!!! The dam heater
> is leaking.
> Sure enough, I crawled under the dash while the wife drove the boat. It was
> a gusher. Turned off the engine and no water.
> Evidently the dealer had never drained the heater prior to my receiving it.
> The boat had set outside covered for months before I bought it.
> Malibu sent me a new heater and I installed it myself to keep from having to
> travel to far to the dealer. They threw in a couple of super nice beach
> towels and other accessories to make up for it. I was happy once again. Now
> my boat never gets water in the bilge.
>
>
> Bob
> "Tom Ruta" <ru...@cadvision.com> wrote in message
Paul Smith
> I don't mean to play down Pauls problems with his new boat as minor or
> trivial with calling things "stuff", but it seems to me that if a boat
> is leaking so badly that there is a possibility of it sinking it
> shouldn't be tough to find out where the water is coming in. It
> sounds like Paul can't exactly tell where the water is coming from,
> hasn't even talked to the dealer, and is on this forum asking for
> answers to questions that none of us can answer without seeing his
> boat. Next he is talking about "lemon laws" etc., possibly returning
> the boat and talking about QC issues with M. It seems to me that Paul
> may not be too "mechanically inclined" and he should first let his
> dealer try to solve his problems. If the dealer can't satisfy him go
> to M, if M can't make him happy then start talking lemon laws, returns
> or legal action.
> I'm only saying that I think he should give his dealer an opportunity
> to correct any problems before getting too worked up.
We'll have to agree to disagree as to whether its appropriate to get
worked up after paying $46k for a boat that doesn't float from a
manufacturer and dealer that obviously did not test it as they say
they do. The boat leaks from the perfect pass, drain plug, and badly
from somewhere around the center ski locker. I sure hope my dealer
doesn't take your attitude, or this thing is going to get very ugly.
You must have missed my post which outlined some of the other problems
I've had with my dealer. Remember, I just took delivery of a screwed
up boat (in addition to the minimum of three leaks I've pinpointed,
the MLS doesn't discharge and there is a smell of burning wire (very
strong) coming from the engine compartment) from a dealer who left my
old boat uncovered in the baking sun and some rain for three weeks
after promising me he would detail and wax it and get it sold.
As to making Mark's day, you don't think it greatly disappoints me
that I've lost any faith in or respect for Malibu? I was hoping to
get the best, or at least one of the best, boats out there. Now I am
starting to see why people talk so much about Nautique's quality.
Hopefully Malibu and/or my dealer will restore my faith and regain my
trust in them.
Doug Meredith
> We'll have to agree to disagree as to whether its appropriate to get
> worked up after paying $46k for a boat that doesn't float from a
> manufacturer and dealer that obviously did not test it as they say
> they do.
Remember, the dealer isn't required to put the boat in the water.
Malibu's quote in BBG says that the boat should be ready to be un
shrinkwrapped, and delivered to you. What M may or may not have missed
in the in water test is an other issue. Nonj of us are there to see
your problem close up, so we can't say what caused it or how M missed
it. (and I am NOT saying that you shouldn't be mad, but I am saying wait
till Tuesday and you talk to your dealer before screaming to loud) and
a small hint. When you call your dealer, don't start the conversation
by screaming at him. That won't get anything except a blood pressure
increase for you. Take it from someone who has been there <g>,
>The boat leaks from the perfect pass, drain plug, and badly
> from somewhere around the center ski locker.
Again, as we have all said, we aren't there to look at it, but the PP,
and the drain plug are easy leak fixes, and if its leaking around the
locker where the MLS is, that could simply be a loose fitting.
> I sure hope my dealer
> doesn't take your attitude, or this thing is going to get very ugly.
If your dealer takes a bad attitude, THEN is when you call Malibu.
Don't go into this assuming that your dealer is going to have a bad
attitude about it.
> You must have missed my post which outlined some of the other problems
> I've had with my dealer. Remember, I just took delivery of a screwed
> up boat (in addition to the minimum of three leaks I've pinpointed,
> the MLS doesn't discharge and there is a smell of burning wire (very
> strong) coming from the engine compartment) from a dealer who left my
> old boat uncovered in the baking sun and some rain for three weeks
> after promising me he would detail and wax it and get it sold.
You HAVE to keep the new boat and the old boat in seperate
conversations. one has nothing to do with the other. Get the new one
fixed, then fight with thedealer about the old one. One problem at a
time will work out much better for you in the long run.
>Now I am
> starting to see why people talk so much about Nautique's quality.
ALL boats can have problems. from a bayliner to a $10 million yacht. If
you have been reading RSW for a while, I'm sure that you have noticed
there are very few complaints about any of the big 3 ski boats.
> Hopefully Malibu and/or my dealer will restore my faith and regain my
> trust in them.
On or the other will make it right.
Mark Kovalcson
> Look - we are talking about ONE boat out of thousands. What's that
> percentage wise? Besides, there are literally tens of thousands of
> M's floating quite nicely TYVM. I'm not saying this situation is
> acceptable but some facts might be nice.
True this is ONE boat, or course how many others are out there. They are
certainly not all talked about in this forum. Taken from a sample size of
people who have posted on rec.sport.waterski the percentages seem to be a lot
worse than that. We all know that Malibu looked at your boat carefully as did
CC with mine, but keep in mind that we each have ONE boat out of thousands.
Now look at all the complaints and failures over the years taken as a whole.
Malibu has by far and away fielded the most complaints about dash electricals,
vinyl splitting, reoocurring gelcoat cracks, and other issues over the years.
Many are obvious QA issues others are just statistical averages because of
their construction techniques.
Mark Kovalcson
Glen Reeder wrote:
> P.S. If nothing else Paul you have truly made Mark K's day:)
He didn't make my day. I feel bad for him. I wouldn't wish that kind of
problem on anyone. Glen, I understand that there are some good reasons
that people buy Malibu's. They have a number of really good designs that
seem to satisfy a lot of needs. There are large numbers of very happy
Malibu owners out there, and they have a right to be proud of their
boats. I just hate it when someone becomes a statistic and just gets the
unlucky card of the draw.
Tom Ruta
wrote:
...
>True this is ONE boat, or course how many others are out there.
Good Q. The closest to a DB is that of BoatUS. No idea what it might
represent though in terms of completeness.
>They are
>certainly not all talked about in this forum. Taken from a sample size of
>people who have posted on rec.sport.waterski the percentages seem to be a lot
>worse than that.
Worse as it two or ten or ??? Many folks are hesitant to post so we
will likely never know.
> We all know that Malibu looked at your boat carefully as did
>CC with mine, but keep in mind that we each have ONE boat out of thousands.
>
That should be the MO for everyone's boats, not just yours or mine,
irrespective of mfg.
>Now look at all the complaints and failures over the years taken as a whole.
>Malibu has by far and away fielded the most complaints about dash electricals,
>vinyl splitting, reoocurring gelcoat cracks, and other issues over the years.
I will certainly agree that the Kysor gauges have not lived up to
their billing and the vinyl seems to be a problem that forced a
change.
>Many are obvious QA issues others are just statistical averages because of
>their construction techniques.
And how do we really know the difference?
Tom
Doug Meredith
"Mark Kovalcson" <kova...@usit.net> wrote in message
news:3C7A7A70...@usit.net...
> True this is ONE boat, or course how many others are out there. They
are
> certainly not all talked about in this forum. Taken from a sample
size of
> people who have posted on rec.sport.waterski the percentages seem to
be a lot
> worse than that. We all know that Malibu looked at your boat carefully
as did
> CC with mine, but keep in mind that we each have ONE boat out of
thousands.
CC or M didn't look at your boat or Tom's any more carefully than they
did any others. If you believe that, you are sadly mistaken. Do you
think Walt was out there watching them build your boat?
> Now look at all the complaints and failures over the years taken as a
whole.
> Malibu has by far and away fielded the most complaints about dash
electricals,
> vinyl splitting, reoocurring gelcoat cracks, and other issues over the
years.
> Many are obvious QA issues others are just statistical averages
because of
> their construction techniques.
Interesting problems about Malibu. Strange, that the Response I ski
behind had 2 problems. one was Malibus fault, and that was the leak in
the hydro system. The other was a leaking water pump. thats an indmar
problem. and we use this boat hard, with 2 kids running all over it.
no vinyl problems, no gel problems, no electrical problems.
Now lets talk about CC. On my street, there were 2, mine and a friends
twin to mine. Bought from the same dealer at the same time. Mine was
fine. on the second time my friend lifted his engine cover, the
attaching point for the strut riped out of the glass. Does that mean
that 50% of CC's boats are bad? I don't think so.
Tom Ruta
<dou...@rcn.net.com> wrote:
...
>Now lets talk about CC. On my street, there were 2, mine and a friends
>twin to mine. Bought from the same dealer at the same time. Mine was
>fine. on the second time my friend lifted his engine cover, the
>attaching point for the strut riped out of the glass. Does that mean
>that 50% of CC's boats are bad? I don't think so.
>
WHAT??? A CC with a defect??????
Tom ;=)
Doug Meredith
> WHAT??? A CC with a defect??????
I know, hard to believe. <g> Of course when they took the plant tour,
they told them about it. CC told them to see the dealer for a new
engine box, and if the dealer wouldn't take care of it, CC would. In
their infinate stupidness, they haven't done it yet. Duh.
Mark Kovalcson
> Now lets talk about CC. On my street, there were 2, mine and a friends
> twin to mine. Bought from the same dealer at the same time. Mine was
> fine. on the second time my friend lifted his engine cover, the
> attaching point for the strut riped out of the glass. Does that mean
> that 50% of CC's boats are bad? I don't think so.
Not trying to nit pick here, but a hydrolic strut to help lift the clam
shell part of the engine box would hardly keep me from skiing, or be
construed as a safety issue. I'd have something like that fixed when it was
convenient and no sooner. I seen CC manufacturing defects, but they have all
been pretty minor to date.
Mark Kovalcson
> Now lets talk about CC. On my street, there were 2, mine and a friends
> twin to mine. Bought from the same dealer at the same time. Mine was
> fine. on the second time my friend lifted his engine cover, the
> attaching point for the strut riped out of the glass. Does that mean
> that 50% of CC's boats are bad? I don't think so.
Not trying to nit pick here, but a hydrolic strut to help lift the clam
shell part of the engine box would hardly keep me from skiing, or be
construed as a safety issue. I'd have something like that fixed when it was
convenient and no sooner. I've seen CC manufacturing defects, but they have
Tom Ruta
The dealer or CC? And why is the customer not raising holy heck?
Tom
Tom Ruta
wrote:
...
>Not trying to nit pick here, but a hydrolic strut to help lift the clam
>shell part of the engine box would hardly keep me from skiing, or be
>construed as a safety issue.
Until it slams down on your kid's foot.
Tom
Doug Meredith
> >I know, hard to believe. <g> Of course when they took the plant
tour,
> >they told them about it. CC told them to see the dealer for a new
> >engine box, and if the dealer wouldn't take care of it, CC would. In
> >their infinate stupidness, they haven't done it yet. Duh.
> >
> The dealer or CC? And why is the customer not raising holy heck?
no, the dumb a** customer hasn't had the time to take it to the dealer.
Doug Meredith
> Doug Meredith wrote:
> Not trying to nit pick here, but a hydrolic strut to help lift the
clam
> shell part of the engine box would hardly keep me from skiing, or be
> construed as a safety issue. I'd have something like that fixed when
it was
> convenient and no sooner. I seen CC manufacturing defects, but they
have all
> been pretty minor to date.
Never said it was a stop skiing issue, just a major issue. I don't want
to know how much you would have to pay if you had to pay for a new clam
shell.
None of the issues you raised about M would stop you from skiing either.
Nor were they safety related.
Doug Meredith
> Until it slams down on your kid's foot.
or mine. Ouch!
Tom Ruta
<dou...@rcn.net.com> wrote:
...
>no, the dumb a** customer hasn't had the time to take it to the dealer.
>
Is he waiting for a larger problem?
Tom
Doug Meredith
dealer.
> >
> Is he waiting for a larger problem?
I have no clue. I've told him a 100 times to get it fixed. Hardly ever
uses the boat. IIRC, it has about 35 hours on a 1999 Air.
Glen Reeder
> worked up after paying $46k for a boat that doesn't float from a
> manufacturer and dealer that obviously did not test it as they say
> they do. The boat leaks from the perfect pass, drain plug, and badly
> from somewhere around the center ski locker. I sure hope my dealer
> doesn't take your attitude, or this thing is going to get very ugly.
Paul, You had better hope that your dealer doesn't take YOUR
attitude. My attitude is to try and be rational and get issues
resolved. I don't care if you payed 46k for your Malibu or 13k on a
Bayliner, IMO you are taking the wrong approach toward getting these
problems resolved.
>
> You must have missed my post which outlined some of the other problems
> I've had with my dealer. Remember, I just took delivery of a screwed
> up boat (in addition to the minimum of three leaks I've pinpointed,
> the MLS doesn't discharge and there is a smell of burning wire (very
> strong) coming from the engine compartment) from a dealer who left my
> old boat uncovered in the baking sun and some rain for three weeks
> after promising me he would detail and wax it and get it sold.
I don't beleive that I have missed any of your posts. I really don't
think that your boat is "screwed up", just some issues that I'm sure
will be dealt with and taken care of (if you don't screw things up by
mouthing off). As for your old boat why don't you just take it home
and sell it yourself.
>
> As to making Mark's day, you don't think it greatly disappoints me
> that I've lost any faith in or respect for Malibu? I was hoping to
> get the best, or at least one of the best, boats out there. Now I am
> starting to see why people talk so much about Nautique's quality.
> Hopefully Malibu and/or my dealer will restore my faith and regain my
> trust in them.
Situations like this is how I gain faith and respect for a
manufacturer. How you are taken care of when there is a problem is
what counts, sure it would be nice if there were never problems, but
this is not a perfect world with perfect people. I am confident in M
(and any of the major players in this market) that your problems will
be solved, if you just let them. It's more than likely that all of
these issues are minor and can be fixed with minor adjustments, and as
for the burning wire smell- I'm betting it is only paint etc. burning
off of your new engine.
P.S. Nautique's have problems too.
Glen
Mark Kovalcson
Tom Ruta wrote:
> >Not trying to nit pick here, but a hydrolic strut to help lift the clam
> >shell part of the engine box would hardly keep me from skiing, or be
> >construed as a safety issue.
>
> Until it slams down on your kid's foot.
I guess the whole concept of a clam shell has escaped you.....
The whole idea is that the top part which never comes in contact with the
floor opens to allow you to look inside without allowing stuff to get under
the engine box like feet.
But I guess your kids step on the sides the engine box while the cover is
up.... And I thought you were a safety advocate.
Mark Kovalcson
> None of the issues you raised about M would stop you from skiing either.
> Nor were they safety related.
I guess this whole HDS boat sinking thing doesn't matter. The Sunsetter is
large enough that it doesn't have to float when it takes on water which
compounds this issue..
Tom Ruta
wrote:
...
>> Until it slams down on your kid's foot.
>
>I guess the whole concept of a clam shell has escaped you.....
>
>The whole idea is that the top part which never comes in contact with the
>floor opens to allow you to look inside without allowing stuff to get under
>the engine box like feet.
Oh - so then the hands get crushed. Gee - a limp or a claw... what to
choose.
>
>But I guess your kids step on the sides the engine box while the cover is
>up.... And I thought you were a safety advocate.
>
For a guy that takes a dog that can't swim aboard, that is funny.
Tom
Tom Ruta
wrote:
...
>I guess the whole concept of a clam shell has escaped you.....
I like the idea of a clam shell motor box, but I sure don't like the
idea of struts breaking off. Is that endemic to that style? Frankly,
I can't see the need for a strut. How often do you really need to
open the motor box?
Tom
Tom Ruta
wrote:
...
>Tom, there is a saying that you are a fool if you expect things to improve
>without making changes. Tell me how Malibu is building their hydrophonic damping
>systems differently now than they did before and explain how that will fix this
>problem.
You are right - they haven't changed a thing (LOL) Really, you need
to get out more. Go see what they've done for resins, for sound
suppression, speed control, vinyl, etc.
Tom
Tom Ruta
wrote:
>Doug Meredith wrote:
I think you want to go back and reread what you've been talking about.
Things like vinyl don;t affect skiability or safety except in the most
obtuse sense.
And the boat is an LXi which has about the same wetted surface as your
boat.
Tom
Mark Kovalcson
Tom Ruta wrote:
>
> >I guess the whole concept of a clam shell has escaped you.....
>
> I like the idea of a clam shell motor box, but I sure don't like the
> idea of struts breaking off. Is that endemic to that style? Frankly,
> I can't see the need for a strut. How often do you really need to
> open the motor box?
I actually open mine twice each time I take the boat out. Once to put the
plug in and once to take the plug out. I also do that with the clamshell
open and the strut holding the cover up is. It is also handy if you want
to check the water level in the bilge or just look at something.
You can always remove the strut from your boat if you don't like it.
So let me get this right from your comments.
1. You let your kids put their hands in there when you open the clam shell
on your boat.
2. Not having a strut could give them a claw hand...
3. But you don't see why anyone would need this strut.
For starters the clam shell is pretty light and not likely to hurt
someone. Second my kids wouldn't be around if there were danger to them.
Oh and third my greyhound can swim. Just not very well and not on purpose.
Are we done slagging at each other yet or should I let you take one more
round and just be a good sport ?
Mark Kovalcson
Tom Ruta wrote:
> Go see what they've done for resins, for sound suppression, speed control, vinyl,
> etc.
OK Tom,
What has Malibu done for resins ?
What have they done for sound suppression ?
What have they done for vinyl ?
I didn't realize that Malibu was helping so many products evolve. This could be
interesting.
Mark Kovalcson
Tom Ruta wrote:
> And the boat is an LXi which has about the same wetted surface as your
> boat.
Yes, but there is ONE very important difference. My boat by virtue of its length
is required by the USCG to float. The LXi is just on the other side of this line
drawn in the water and it is perfectly legal for that boat to sink to the bottom
of the lake if it takes on water. Now CC states that ALL of their boats meet
this floatation requirement even if they are longer. Tell me where Malibu says
that all their boats will do this.
Mark Olesen
"Doug Meredith" <dou...@rcn.net.com> wrote in message
news:a5dsuh$ldc$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
>
> "Paul Smith" <pes...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1e146957.02022...@posting.google.com...
> > We'll have to agree to disagree as to whether its appropriate to get
> > worked up after paying $46k for a boat that doesn't float from a
> > manufacturer and dealer that obviously did not test it as they say
> > they do.
>
> Malibu's quote in BBG says that the boat should be ready to be un
> shrinkwrapped, and delivered to you.
Any dealer with his salt should still be doing a PDI on the boat along with
a tank test and should not be delivering the boat to the customer without a
thorough lake test. I presume none of these were done? If there is a
"significant" leak under the locker, wouldn't this have been noticed at
least on the lake test??
Mark
Doug Meredith
NMMA says so. So does the USCG
http://www.nmma.org/certification/about/chart.asp
Doug Meredith
Mark, read what I wrote. I said the issues that YOU raised, not the
"sinking" boat, which BTY unless I missed a post, it hasn't sunk yet,
even with the launch system full, and a leak somewhere.
Doug Meredith
> It is also handy if you want
> to check the water level in the bilge or just look at something.
Mark, I hate to tell you, but you are supposed to be checking the oil
level in th engine. There isn't supposed to be a water level in the
bilge
Doug Meredith
"Mark Olesen" <marko...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:IiBe8.6048$M8.3...@news2.rdc1.ab.home.com...
> > Remember, the dealer isn't required to put the boat in the water.
> > Malibu's quote in BBG says that the boat should be ready to be un
> > shrinkwrapped, and delivered to you.
>
> Any dealer with his salt should still be doing a PDI on the boat along
with
> a tank test and should not be delivering the boat to the customer
without a
> thorough lake test.
shoulda woulda coulda, this dealer didn't.
> I presume none of these were done?
not according to the buyer.
poormana2
vette engine. He finally got a brand new boat from Malibu. Call and
complain, tell them about the bad press they are getting in this newsgroup,
and see what they do. I'm sure they will tell you to "take it back to the
dealer" but maybe you'll get lucky.
Andy
"Paul Smith" <pes...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Rwce8.38200$4x.11...@typhoon.san.rr.com...
> The comedy continues....
>
> Prepping the boat for the water today, I stepped on the platform step on
the
> trailer and it went flying off and I almost killed myself.
>
> Dropped it in the water and it continued to fill up with water in the
bilge.
> Perfect pass paddle wheel seems to be leaking a small amount. Center
drain
> plug seems to be leaking a little. Somewhere up near the MLS in the ski
> locker it is leaking a lot. It leaks when sitting at idle. It pours in
> when you take the boat up to speed. It seems to leak worse the faster you
> go.
>
> Filled up the MLS sack to test that out. Then went to drain it and it
won't
> drain. Now I have about 400lbs of water sitting in the middle of the boat
> that won't drain.
>
> We noticed a sharp odor along the lines of burning wires coming from the
> engine compartment.
>
> We pulled up to the dock to take a restroom break and found that there was
> enough water in the bilge, DESPITE RUNNING THE BILGE PUMP ALMOST THE
ENTIRE
> TIME, to seep up through the back of the carpet into a puddle. Needless
to
> say we immediately put the boat on the trailer and came home.
>
> This whole thing has been a disaster. From being told at the boat show
that
> "you really can't put enough options on this boat to put it much, if any,
> above $38k" and then being quoted $42k as an actual quote (from which they
> refused to come down at all), to showing up and finding my old boat hadn't
> been covered up in three weeks of sitting on their lot and was not at all
> detailed as they promised, but rather was in much, much worse shape then
> when we left it, to finding that the new boat leaks badly, to the MLS not
> draining, to.... what's next?
>
> Has anyone ever actually returned a ski boat as a "lemon"?
>
>
Mark Kovalcson
Mark Kovalcson
> NMMA says so. So does the USCG
>
> http://www.nmma.org/certification/about/chart.asp
Exactly. If you read it you will see that Floation is:
"Required in monohull inboard and I/O's, outboards 2 hp and below, and
unpowered boats under 20' "
The Sunsetter is over 20' and therefore not required to have floation.
Malibu could add it, but it is completely optional and at their discretion.
So I repeat, "Where does Malibu say that they continue this floatation above
20' ?"
Paul Smith
=> not according to the buyer.
I talked with Malibu this morning and they say they water tested it. They
had a problem with MLS sacks being out of stock and may have installed it
after the water test, but they don't know as of right now.
As for the dealer, I don't know for sure they didn't water test it but it
wasn't offered to me and I'd be pretty surprised if they did.
Paul Smith
Yesterday, I sent an email to Guy Coward explaining what had happened and
expressing muted outrage.
This morning, I called him. He was fairly responsive and understanding and
said he was sure the boat was water tested and they always do that after
installing the MLS. However, they had a problem with the MLS sacks being
out of stock and that may have affected my boat.
He said he also knew my dealer is closed on Mondays but would leave them a
voice mail and was sure that they would get back to me tomorrow morning.
A rep from my dealer called this afternoon, explained that the head honcho
was out of town but he had gotten my message, was very concerned, and was
going to address things ASAP.
An hour or two later, a "tech" called and got some information on what was
wrong.
Another hour later, he called and said he wanted to come and pick the boat
up, if that was okay with me.
As I write this, he is due here tonight at 7pm or shortly thereafter.
Needless to say, so far the response has exceeded my best expectations. No
matter what happens, I don't think the boat should have gotten to me but it
did and they seem to be taking the problem very, very seriously.
I'll keep you guys updated.