Tige models/years to avoid?
George Weiss
bewildered by the many models. Like Mastercraft, are there models and/or
years to avoid??? Thanks in advance.
Geo
George Weiss
what the "i" suffix is all about but what about the "pre" models?
Geo
George Weiss wrote in message <8h7ric$po0$1...@q.seanet.com>...
h2o....@worldnet.att.net
Years to avoid ???
All of them ???
Buy a Malibu
I researched Tige in depth for my recent purchase and there are many
other boats out there of higher quality for a similar price. IMHO.
Sit in a newer Malibu, Mastercraft or Nautique and then sit in a
comparable Tige and you will immediately notice the difference in
quality of interior and fit and finish. (At least I did) Not to mention
materials used in construction.
Anyone want to dredge up the wood vs. glass debate ???
Just Kidding !!
Don't get me wrong, Tige makes a fine boat...just make sure it's what
you really want.
In terms of years to avoid, can't help much there. I only looked at the
new ones. Although I recall some past discussions about certain models
having windshield problems from hull flexing.
Just make sure you check it good for dry rot if you buy an older model.
Mike
In article <8h7ric$po0$1...@q.seanet.com>,
"George Weiss" <geo...@georgew.seanet.com> wrote:
> Am in the market for a 20'-21' Tige open bow, mid to late `90s, but
> bewildered by the many models. Like Mastercraft, are there models
and/or
> years to avoid??? Thanks in advance.
>
> Geo
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
e...@ez-slalom.com
h2o....@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
>
> Years to avoid ???
>
> All of them ???
>
> Buy a Malibu
>
> I researched Tige in depth for my recent purchase and there are many
> other boats out there of higher quality for a similar price. IMHO.
>
> Sit in a newer Malibu, Mastercraft or Nautique and then sit in a
> comparable Tige and you will immediately notice the difference in
> quality of interior and fit and finish. (At least I did) Not to
mention
> materials used in construction.
>
> Anyone want to dredge up the wood vs. glass debate ???
>
> Just Kidding !!
>
> Don't get me wrong, Tige makes a fine boat...just make sure it's what
> you really want.
>
> In terms of years to avoid, can't help much there. I only looked at
the
> new ones. Although I recall some past discussions about certain models
> having windshield problems from hull flexing.
>
> Just make sure you check it good for dry rot if you buy an older
model.
>
> Mike
I also looked at the new Tige's before buying my boat, but my criteria
might be different from yours. I needed a boat that would be a killer
slalom boat but also make a great family boat as well. Open bow was a
must. After looking at Tige, Malibu, and the MC 205's (the boats that
met my criteria for bow room, wake quality, build quality etc.) I
bought a Supra Legacy with a play pen bow. It had the most bow room
(CC wasn't even in the running there), top notch build quality, more
STANDARD power, and (in my opinion) the best slalom wake of the bunch.
And I made a much better deal on it than I ever could have on any of
the others (I price shopped agressively). Don't overlook the Supra's,
they are every bit the boat Malibu, Tige, MC, CC etc. are.
Ed @ EZ-Slalom.com
Mark Kovalcson
> Sit in a newer Malibu, Mastercraft or Nautique and then sit in a
> comparable Tige and you will immediately notice the difference in
> quality of interior and fit and finish. (At least I did) Not to mention
> materials used in construction.
You sat them side by side and thought Malibu came ahead ???? On
materials
and Construction ?
Did you notice the little vinyl arm rest thingy that is just screwed
into
the fiberglass leaving exposed phillips head screws on the Malibu ?
Did
you notice the well integrated form fitting vinyl section extending from
foor to the top of the deck on the CC ? Notice all the guages that you
can
put down there?
Did you notice all the exposed phillips head screws in the dash board on
the Malibu ? Did you notice the nice machine screw Burnish knobs
extending around the instrument cluster on the CC for easy removal
without
tools (over and over again) and a nice finished look.where the wood
screws
will waller out over time and look ugly on the Malibu. Of course you
will
never have to touch the dash right ? Oh yeah that's right some people
are
replacing their fogged up KM Gauges pretty regularly. Funny CC isn't
having
that problem, but CC has easy dashboard access for people adding Perfect
Pass systems or just making it easier to replace a burnt out instrument
light bulb.
Did you notice the huge aluminum frame holding the engine and pylon in
place on the CC ? Did you notice the fiberglass cylinder holding the
pylon
in the Malibu ? Did you know there are just a few washers under the
fiberglass engine mounting system of the Malibu compared to about a 2
foot
long piece of 1/4" thick angle aluminum under the SN's stringers that
the
engine/pylon frame bolt to both vertically and horisontally ?
Did you notice the new electronics in the CC will dual damping rate
Speedos?
Did you notice the thicker vinyl CC uses ?
Did you notice the Heavy Duty glove box cover that you can stand on in
the
SN. Did you notice the plastic thing(glove box) they tack under the
windshield in the Malibu?
Did you notice the higher windshield on the CC that keeps wind out of
your
face?
Did you notice the much plusher and comfortable seat on the CC?
Did you notice the PCM engine guaranteed not to vapor lock on the CC?
Then there is all the stuff that isn't even remotely visable unless you
see
them building the boat.
The front lifting ring is secured to both the hull and deck on the CC.
Does a Malibu even have lifting rings anymore?
All the bolts going into a CC are backed with Metal. Check a Malibu
going
through the assembly line and see how many things are just screwed into
fiberglass. Long Term vibration will win agains screws sitting in
fiberglass.
Did you notice the simple things for easy maintenance. Pull two pegs and
the whole engine box comes off the CC.
Got some wiggle in your pylon? With the Malibu take it back to the
dealer
to have it shimmed. With the CC tighten a U-Bolt.
Most boats look great on the showroom floor. Few stand the test of time
like a CC.
I could write another page about all the things MC does better than
Malibu,
but suffice it to say CC and MC still build better boats judging by
materials and construction methods than Malibu in some very noticable
ways.
When someone tries to put them all on a level playing field, they are
just
trying to make us all look ignorant.
Performancewise I think the top 3 closed bow tournaments ski boats are :
CC's SN, Infinity's ZX-1, Malibu's Response
Tige's aren't in the running. Supra's Comp is close. MB's ProBoss 190 is
close. Hopefully performancewise MC will be on the Map again soon.
--
Mark Kovalcson
http://www.perfectpull.com
Waterski Training Equipment
h2o....@worldnet.att.net
ma...@perfectpull.com wrote:
You sat them side by side and thought Malibu came ahead ???? On
materials and Construction ?
Malibu compared to Tige, absolutely. Malibu compared to CC? I never
said Malibu was better than CC. If you actually read the content of
my post you would have understood that. Malibu compared to CC taking
into account the inflated price for CC...absolutely.
Did you notice the little vinyl arm rest thingy that is just screwed
into the fiberglass leaving exposed phillips head screws on the
Malibu?
Big Deal. I bit picky don't you think?
Did you notice the well integrated form fitting vinyl section
extending from foor to the top of the deck on the CC ? Notice all
the guages that you can put down there?
Don't get me wrong, CC makes a fabulous boat. But my buddy has a 2000
Air Natique that I've been in several times. I think the Malibu
interior is higher quality and looks better. That's just my personal
opinion.
Did you notice all the exposed phillips head screws in the dash board
on the Malibu ? Did you notice the nice machine screw Burnish knobs
extending around the instrument cluster on the CC for easy removal
without tools (over and over again) and a nice finished look. where
the wood screws will waller out over time and look ugly on the
Malibu. Of course you will never have to touch the dash right ? Oh
yeah that's right some people are replacing their fogged up KM Gauges
pretty regularly. Funny CC isn't having that problem, but CC has easy
dashboard access for people adding Perfect Pass systems or just making
it easier to replace a burnt out instrument light bulb.
Yeah, the CC owners just have to deal with those new digital gauges
that you can't read well when it's bright out.
Did you notice the huge aluminum frame holding the engine and pylon in
place on the CC ? Did you notice the fiberglass cylinder holding the
pylon in the Malibu ? Did you know there are just a few washers
under the fiberglass engine mounting system of the Malibu compared to
about a 2 foot long piece of 1/4" thick angle aluminum under the SN's
stringers that the engine/pylon frame bolt to both vertically and
horisontally ?
I don't see that as a major issue. Haven't heard of any problems with
the Malibu pylon mount. Not that it matters much to me since I have
a tower on mine and mostly wakeboard.
Did you notice the thicker vinyl CC uses ?
Can't tell the difference if you ask me.
Did you notice the Heavy Duty glove box cover that you can stand on in
the SN. Did you notice the plastic thing(glove box) they tack under the
windshield in the Malibu?
Yeah, and I'll be standing on my glovebox all the time!
Did you notice the much plusher and comfortable seat on the CC?
Now that I definately disagree with.
Did you notice the PCM engine guaranteed not to vapor lock on the CC?
Then there is all the stuff that isn't even remotely visable unless you
see them building the boat.
I've actually been on the Malibu Factory tour. I was very impressed.
The front lifting ring is secured to both the hull and deck on the CC.
Does a Malibu even have lifting rings anymore?
Don't need them.
All the bolts going into a CC are backed with Metal. Check a Malibu
going through the assembly line and see how many things are just
screwed into fiberglass. Long Term vibration will win agains screws
sitting in fiberglass.
I'll admit you may have a point there. I revert to my price argument.
Did you notice the simple things for easy maintenance. Pull two pegs
and the whole engine box comes off the CC.
Convenience, but not neccessity.
Most boats look great on the showroom floor. Few stand the test of time
like a CC.
I agree that CC makes an excellent boat. If you can afford it.
But you'll notice in the original post that the guy is interested
in a Tige, which is more in the price range of a Malibu. That's why
I reccommended he look at the Malibu.
Mike
John Anderson
Did you notice... how H2O didn't use any kind of quote marks to indicate
what he was writing and what he was quoting? Pretty confusing eh?
John
Mark Kovalcson
> Did you notice... how H2O didn't use any kind of quote marks to indicate
> what he was writing and what he was quoting? Pretty confusing eh?
Yeah, but he makes a couple good points. In the price range of a
Tige'/Malibu the Malibu wins hands down for performance and construction.
The other good point he makes is about what "he" is willing to pay for.
This is the area where you will get the most debate. Once a product is good
enough for an individual everything past that point is deemed overkill.
Now the other end of this issue gets interesting. You can try to break a
boat down into its constituents and say I don't care about the money spent
here or there or I don't use that item. The other end of the spectrum has to
do with having the best of the breed. Here is where all the effort spent
really pays off. Let's say that there are only 6 things that an individual
sees as improvements. Now lets say this hypothetical person puts a price tag
of a few thousand on those improvements and can't justify the rest of the
difference. Now you may want these features and not to pay for the others,
but you can't retrofit most of these into the cheaper boat. So now the
dilemma. Do I get what I want even though I think it is over priced or do I
settle for less. Everyone has to make these decisions. This is one reason
I own a used BMW. I wanted certain features and certain quality and
performance, but I couldn't afford new. Now someone could argue that I
should have spent my money on a new say Nissan Maxima with a warrantee and
for some that would be a good argument. I've owned my BMW for 10+ years now
and am glad I bought it. After 205K miles this car fits me just about
perfect and I will probably keep it another 50K+miles longer. The leather in
my 15 year old BMW looks better than the leather in my wife's 80K mile 4
year old Toyota Avalon. I would much rather drive my car than hers and I
trust it. It is built like a Sherman tank, is very maintainable and drives
very nicely.
Brian Lehmann
<ma...@perfectpull.com> wrote:
<snip>
<snip>
Mr CC is the best boat in the world, Do we have to fight about this
again? Give us all a break, this is just your opinion on how you
perceive things as being built better. Last year I spent every
Thursday night in an SN and hated it, I would not spend that much
money on their boats. No Way. The boat wasn't junk by no means, but
it isn't Gods gift of a ski boat either!!! Just because they do
things different doesn't make it better! It's Your Opinion that it
is better not fact!
Ski now, Work Later
Brian
Tom Ruta
>...this is just your opinion on how you
>perceive things as being built better. ...
My twenty dollar Timex keeps better time than my buddies 5k
Rolex <g>
Tom
Glen Reeder
if not what do you base your opinion on? I'm betting that
Infinity won't be around 5 years. The market is too small and
Infinity is going to have a tough time getting a big enough
chunk of it to stay in business.
MC is living on reputation. Maybe in the near future it will
again be deserved.
CC, no argument here. I do think they are very over-priced in
my little corner of this world. I also think that they are IMO,
UGLY.
As far as Malibu goes, your bias is so blatantly obvious I have
a tough time reading your bullshit post about them.
Glen
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The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
e...@ez-slalom.com
THE BUCK, and what my (or your) perception of Bang For The Buck
entails. Individual criteria, how much you're willing to spend vs.
what you're willing to settle for, necessity vs. utility vs. desire all
enter the debate. I guess if everyone's tastes were the same there
would be an awful lot of Supra's parked in my driveway, huh?
Mark Kovalcson
> As far as Malibu goes, your bias is so blatantly obvious I have
> a tough time reading your bullshit post about them.
Thankyou sir, may I have another.
For the record I think Malibu builds a better boat then they ever have and that
they perform very well on the water. I know a number of very happy Malibu
owners as well.
Now please explain what I wrote that qualifies as BS.
Specifically.
Do they not have exposed phillips heads screws in the dash and arm rest?
Is it not common knowledge that a small black painted phillips head screw much
costs less than a burnish knob does ? Is it not easier to drive a wood screw
right into the fiberglass then to put in backing and use a machine screw?
It is easy to make sweeping statements. I in no way said that a Malibu sucks,
but there are differences that some consider worth the extra money. If you don't
think a CC is worth it than you voted with your wallet. That's way there is more
than one manufacturer.
Edward F.Weber
Kris Lapoint
Brad,R.Ph.
I ski behind a '96 pre and I prefer it over the '98 and '99 SN I've skied.
I've seen complaints about a bump at 22 off but I didn't notice it.
Brad
lakewood...@yahoo.com
next week.
Let me see, my family had a Bayliner POS 19 foot I/O for over 23
years. I'm thinking that Bayliner POS was built slightly inferior to
my Malibu but lets say they are the same (but its hard to overlook all
the wood,screwed into wood parts and inferior just about everything,
but anyway). My family heavily abused that boat every weekend of the
summer for just over 20 years. We left it at the cabin and everyone
that used the cabin also had free use of the boat. It had very little
maintenance and it sat outside its whole life. The boat was at Lake
Chelan which is 55 miles long and a mile wide at our spot and tends to
see 4 foot waves at the mooring buoy. Needless to say this boat did
not have an easy life especially while I was a teenager partying with
all my buddys. Other than a few minor boat seat items that I repaired
with a screwdriver and replacing parts of the outdrive (log damage) and
general maintanence the boat hung together. Now the beauty of all this
is we sold it for almost the same price we paid for it back in 1972 and
the people who bought it are still driving it around.
Now my Malibu has a lifetime warrantee, the Bayliner did not. I went
thru your laundry list and even though I am known for being extremely
picky I really didn't come up with anything alarming. I still think it
will float. I looked into SN but it seemed to me overkill for the
extra $6,000 and more importantly it didn't come close in the usability
department for the way my family uses a boat. (weenie wakeboard wakes,
shallow playpen, storage, etc.) Things in particular, I hated the
gauges, they were very hard to read at a glance and the graphics have
to go, they are fat-butt-ugly.
Now my boat will get extremely good care unlike the Bayliner (it sits
on a lift and gets wiped down and cleaned out after every outing to the
slalom course) and being mechanically inclined if anything minor does
go wrong I will fix it, if its major off to the dealer who has been
extremely customer service oriented.
SN is extremely well built but I have personally seen on a 95 a 20"
hull crack on the hull on a SN that just showed up in spring of last
year. No one including the dealer could figure out why or how it split
open. To their credit they fixed it and all is ok. Now he also has
alot of engine problems but I think that is really a reflection on PCM
not CC. Unfortunately the owner of this boat is one of my ski partners
and he always wants to ski behind my boat instead of his.
Honestly, I think any of the top boats out there will last a extremely
long time with very little to worry about. With good care and
maintenance they could easily last your lifetime. The construction and
materials used in the boats these days are far superior to that of the
30 year old Bayliner we once owned.
Rod
In article <393B95B2...@perfectpull.com>,
ma...@perfectpull.com wrote:
> h2o....@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
> > Sit in a newer Malibu, Mastercraft or Nautique and then sit in a
> > comparable Tige and you will immediately notice the difference in
> > quality of interior and fit and finish. (At least I did) Not to
mention
> > materials used in construction.
>
> You sat them side by side and thought Malibu came ahead ???? On
> materials
> and Construction ?
>
> Did you notice the little vinyl arm rest thingy that is just screwed
> into
> the fiberglass leaving exposed phillips head screws on the Malibu ?
> Did
> you notice the well integrated form fitting vinyl section extending
from
> foor to the top of the deck on the CC ? Notice all the guages that
you
> can
> put down there?
>
> Did you notice all the exposed phillips head screws in the dash board
on
> the Malibu ? Did you notice the nice machine screw Burnish knobs
> extending around the instrument cluster on the CC for easy removal
> without
> tools (over and over again) and a nice finished look.where the wood
> screws
> will waller out over time and look ugly on the Malibu. Of course you
> will
> never have to touch the dash right ? Oh yeah that's right some people
> are
> replacing their fogged up KM Gauges pretty regularly. Funny CC isn't
> having
> that problem, but CC has easy dashboard access for people adding
Perfect
> Pass systems or just making it easier to replace a burnt out
instrument
> light bulb.
>
> Did you notice the huge aluminum frame holding the engine and pylon in
> place on the CC ? Did you notice the fiberglass cylinder holding the
> pylon
> in the Malibu ? Did you know there are just a few washers under the
> fiberglass engine mounting system of the Malibu compared to about a 2
> foot
> long piece of 1/4" thick angle aluminum under the SN's stringers that
> the
> engine/pylon frame bolt to both vertically and horisontally ?
>
> Did you notice the new electronics in the CC will dual damping rate
> Speedos?
> Did you notice the thicker vinyl CC uses ?
> Did you notice the Heavy Duty glove box cover that you can stand on in
> the
> SN. Did you notice the plastic thing(glove box) they tack under the
> windshield in the Malibu?
>
> Did you notice the higher windshield on the CC that keeps wind out of
> your
> face?
> Did you notice the much plusher and comfortable seat on the CC?
> Did you notice the PCM engine guaranteed not to vapor lock on the CC?
>
> Then there is all the stuff that isn't even remotely visable unless
you
> see
> them building the boat.
>
> The front lifting ring is secured to both the hull and deck on the CC.
> Does a Malibu even have lifting rings anymore?
>
> All the bolts going into a CC are backed with Metal. Check a Malibu
> going
> through the assembly line and see how many things are just screwed
into
> fiberglass. Long Term vibration will win agains screws sitting in
> fiberglass.
>
> Did you notice the simple things for easy maintenance. Pull two pegs
and
> the whole engine box comes off the CC.
>
> Got some wiggle in your pylon? With the Malibu take it back to the
> dealer
> to have it shimmed. With the CC tighten a U-Bolt.
>
> Most boats look great on the showroom floor. Few stand the test of
time
> like a CC.
>
> I could write another page about all the things MC does better than
> Malibu,
> but suffice it to say CC and MC still build better boats judging by
> materials and construction methods than Malibu in some very noticable
> ways.
>
> When someone tries to put them all on a level playing field, they are
> just
> trying to make us all look ignorant.
>
> Performancewise I think the top 3 closed bow tournaments ski boats
are :
>
> CC's SN, Infinity's ZX-1, Malibu's Response
>
> Tige's aren't in the running. Supra's Comp is close. MB's ProBoss 190
is
> close. Hopefully performancewise MC will be on the Map again soon.
>
> --
>
> Mark Kovalcson
> http://www.perfectpull.com
> Waterski Training Equipment
>
lakewood...@yahoo.com
ma...@perfectpull.com wrote:
> h2o....@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
> > Sit in a newer Malibu, Mastercraft or Nautique and then sit in a
> > comparable Tige and you will immediately notice the difference in
> > quality of interior and fit and finish. (At least I did) Not to
mention
> > materials used in construction.
>
> You sat them side by side and thought Malibu came ahead ???? On
> materials
> and Construction ?
>
> Did you notice the little vinyl arm rest thingy that is just screwed
> into
> the fiberglass leaving exposed phillips head screws on the Malibu ?
No, my boat does not have that feature.
> Did
> you notice the well integrated form fitting vinyl section extending
from
> foor to the top of the deck on the CC ? Notice all the guages that
you
> can
> put down there?
What additional guages would I want and do I have to stand on my head
to read em?
>
> Did you notice all the exposed phillips head screws in the dash board
on
> the Malibu ?
No, mine are machine allen screws.
Did you notice the nice machine screw Burnish knobs
> extending around the instrument cluster on the CC for easy removal
> without
> tools (over and over again) and a nice finished look.where the wood
> screws
> will waller out over time and look ugly on the Malibu. Of course you
> will
> never have to touch the dash right ?
Once again machine allen screws.
Oh yeah that's right some people
> are
> replacing their fogged up KM Gauges pretty regularly.
Is this a reflection on Malibu or Kysor? MC, MB and many others use
Kysor too as they are the best analog on the market. (Minus the fog
problem)
Funny CC isn't
> having
> that problem, but CC has easy dashboard access for people adding
Perfect
> Pass systems or just making it easier to replace a burnt out
instrument
> light bulb.
>
Um-you just cant read the gauges maybe they should just go without.
> Did you notice the huge aluminum frame holding the engine and pylon in
> place on the CC ? Did you notice the fiberglass cylinder holding the
> pylon
> in the Malibu ? Did you know there are just a few washers under the
> fiberglass engine mounting system of the Malibu compared to about a 2
> foot
> long piece of 1/4" thick angle aluminum under the SN's stringers that
> the
> engine/pylon frame bolt to both vertically and horisontally ?
Yes, now this would be very alarming if the drivetrain experienced the
solid hookup us say drag slicks on pavement, or perhaps the first
experience of a teenager trying to drive a stick shift with a clutch on
pavement.
>
> Did you notice the new electronics in the CC will dual damping rate
> Speedos?
Nope, couldnt read em.
> Did you notice the thicker vinyl CC uses ?
Not really that much difference.
> Did you notice the Heavy Duty glove box cover that you can stand on in
> the
> SN. Did you notice the plastic thing(glove box) they tack under the
> windshield in the Malibu?
I rarely stand on anything other than the floor or the swim platform.
>
> Did you notice the higher windshield on the CC that keeps wind out of
> your
> face?
Yes, but I like the look of my boat better.
> Did you notice the much plusher and comfortable seat on the CC?
Hmmm...could almost fall asleep there.
> Did you notice the PCM engine guaranteed not to vapor lock on the CC?
I have only experienced vapor lock on a holley 4 barrel on my car on
REALLY hot days after sitting for a bit and it wasn't that big of
deal.
>
> Then there is all the stuff that isn't even remotely visable unless
you
> see
> them building the boat.
>
> The front lifting ring is secured to both the hull and deck on the CC.
> Does a Malibu even have lifting rings anymore?
Oh yeah, now how am I going to hang the boat off the back of my yacht?
>
> All the bolts going into a CC are backed with Metal. Check a Malibu
> going
> through the assembly line and see how many things are just screwed
into
> fiberglass. Long Term vibration will win agains screws sitting in
> fiberglass.
Uh, most of the stuff was SS machine screws with washers and nuts. For
the few things that were screwed I'm checked out to operate a
screwdriver.
>
> Did you notice the simple things for easy maintenance. Pull two pegs
and
> the whole engine box comes off the CC.
Nice touch there.
>
> Got some wiggle in your pylon? With the Malibu take it back to the
> dealer
> to have it shimmed. With the CC tighten a U-Bolt.
Not an issue even on older heavily used boats with skylons on our lake.
John Bendig
<f_r_...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> Given CCs blatant Christianity
News to me. Can you elaborate?
h2o....@worldnet.att.net
Poor George, I don't think he's gotten a single useful tip about buying
differnt models of tige which is why he posted. I guess I started a new
topic direction instead, sorry George. Although it was my intent to do
so. The group seemed in a lull (except for the swim platform debate)
and it's nice to see a new (or older revived) debate topic to spice
things up.
I spoke to the people over at the Malibu plant and they assured me that
they will be creating a glovebox that you can stand on for the 2001
models. They are very concerned about the possible loss of market share
due to this issue. They may even be able to retrofit older models but
that is still on hold until they do a cost/benefit analysis.
O.K., Just a little more flame on the fire. (all in good fun)
The malibu sunsetter lxi has a 40 qt. built in ice chest- which is a
huge convenience. I don't recall my friend's Air Nautique having a
similar ice chest.
Also, personally, I thought that the recessed interior lighting in the
Malibu was a classy addition. Creates a cool ambiance on the way back
from an evening set or on a booze cruise.
The other thing is, I noticed a difference in the appearance of the
interior within different Malibu models. (Now this is just my opinion)
but the LXI compared to the regular sunsetter or the sportster was a
noticeable difference. I sat in the sunsetter and thought, "yeah, this
is nice." and then I sat in the LXI and it felt like a Lexus compared
to a camry. I can't give specifics, but a lot of little things made a
big difference in appearance.
Also, the CC versus Malibu debate depends on application. For an all
around boat, both boarding and skiing, the LXI wins hands down. For
such a big boat, it has a suprisingly small and soft wake. (for it's
size) and with the MLS and wedge, it throws a huge wake. My buddy with
an Air Nautique has agreed, as have others, after riding behind each
boat one after the other, that mine has as big of a wake and nicer
shaped ramp. Throw up the wedge, and back to great slalom wakes,
instead of waiting for all of the ballast to drain and then have to
fill it again. My wife is a skier and I'm a boarder who still likes to
tear it up on a ski when the water is glass. CC couldn't offer what
malibu has on versatility. Then you look at price and there is nothing
else to say. (especially with the new ugly "N" graphics CC came out
with)
Also, the LXI has a larger rear storage trunk and it opens from the
swim platform instead of inside the boat. The LXI has the advantage
because the skis and boards never go into the boat and thus no chance
of hacking up the interior.
O.K., so what's my point?
I might be thinking of and comparing an LXI compared to Air Nautique
and Mark might be thinking of and comparing ski nautique compared to
response. Both those comparisons will draw vastly different conclusions
between the two manufacturers. (assuming the construction and materials
are the same)
I think what everyone seems to agree with is that no one has much
positive things to say about tige.
(they're not bad.......just not.....Good)
Mike
lakewood...@yahoo.com
f_r_maier
used to do things like:
feature the icthus symbol prominently
mention "God" or "blessing" frequently
refused to participate in competitions sponsored by beer companies
etc.
I bet if you check their website or a recent brochure you'll find at least
the first two of these.
Frank - CC may not be a corporate Elmer Gantry, but then again...
John Bendig <jbendigD...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:jbendigDontSpamMe...@10.1.23.88...
jac...@my-deja.com
"f_r_maier" <f_r_...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> Well, I haven't looked at their advertising materials in years; but
they
> used to do things like:
>
> feature the icthus symbol prominently
> mention "God" or "blessing" frequently
> refused to participate in competitions sponsored by beer companies
> etc.
>
> I bet if you check their website or a recent brochure you'll find at
least
> the first two of these.
>
I seem to remember a couple years back that all new CC's came with a
copy of a book entitled "God and the Boatbuilder" or something to that
effect.
Tim J.
> Frank - CC may not be a corporate Elmer Gantry, but then again...
>
> John Bendig <jbendigD...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
> news:jbendigDontSpamMe...@10.1.23.88...
> > In article <edJ3CS2z$GA.310@cpmsnbbsa07>, "f_r_maier"
> > <f_r_...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Given CCs blatant Christianity
> >
> > News to me. Can you elaborate?
>
>
f_r_maier
> "f_r_maier" <f_r_...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> > Well, I haven't looked at their advertising materials in years; but
> > they used to do things like:
> >
> > feature the icthus symbol prominently
> > mention "God" or "blessing" frequently
>
>
> I seem to remember a couple years back that all new CC's came with a
> copy of a book entitled "God and the Boatbuilder" or something to that
> effect.
Yeah, they definitely *push* their brand of radical, right-wing, soi-disant
Christianity; but most significantly, they sneer at BEER! I mean, come on,
beer's been around longer than Christianity has. Hell (pardon my
non-Christian French), beer's been around longer than Judaism.
Besides, Ieshua's first-ever miracle was to turn water into wine. For a
party. And he hung out with a hooker. Now that's my kind of religion.
Frank - No, I'm not a Christian; I'm also not a beer drinker. I do, however,
enjoy a nice glass of wine now and then; but I won't comment about hookers.
:-)
Mark Kovalcson
> > Did you notice the little vinyl arm rest thingy that is just screwed
> > into the fiberglass leaving exposed phillips head screws on the Malibu ?
>
> No, my boat does not have that feature.
I just saw a brand new Response LX in a showroom yesterday and it had them.
I'm not saying that they don't function. I just think they look unfinished
and tacky. I also see long term service of the instruments as being more
difficult.
> > Did you notice the well integrated form fitting vinyl section extending
> from foor to the top of the deck on the CC ? Notice all the guages that
> you can put down there?
>
> What additional guages would I want and do I have to stand on my head
> to read em?
Did you notice that Malibu and CC both moved the radio to make more room on
the dash or make leg room ?
Now I will admit that having a 4 in one instrument makes this less of an
issue, so Malibu has a different applicable solution to CC and it has just
as much merit.
> > Did you notice all the exposed phillips head screws in the dash board
> on the Malibu ?
>
> No, mine are machine allen screws.
What model is your boat again ? The Response LX sure has them.
> > Oh yeah that's right some people are
> > replacing their fogged up KM Gauges pretty regularly.
>
> Is this a reflection on Malibu or Kysor? MC, MB and many others use
> Kysor too as they are the best analog on the market. (Minus the fog
> problem)
True enough. I still think Infinity's Kysors look the best.
> Funny CC isn't having that problem, but CC has easy dashboard access for
> people adding
> Perfect Pass systems or just making it easier to replace a burnt out
> instrument
> > light bulb.
> >
> Um-you just cant read the gauges maybe they should just go without.
Well that is a pretty off base comment. What good is reading an instrument
if it isn't accurate?
Coming up to speed the CC will definitely read more accurately and if you
want to get into a legibility contest the Infinity wins hands down. Their
gauges are the easiest I have ever seen to read. I also like their layout
for other things like the Perfect Pass better than either CC or Malibu.
I have heard that if you have glare off the water or get bright light in
your eyes that the new CC gauges are hard to read under those
circumstances. I can tell you that while I was skiing at 6:00AM this
morning they would have been very easy to read. Under most conditions they
are very easy to read. There are a few exceptions, but I would rather have
the accuracy.
> > Did you notice the thicker vinyl CC uses ?
>
> Not really that much difference.
None at all. Funny you hear about these Supra's with vinyl that doesn't last
2 or 3 years... But I guess if you haven't seen it yourself it can't
matter.
> > Did you notice the Heavy Duty glove box cover that you can stand on in
> > the SN. Did you notice the plastic thing(glove box) they tack under the
> > windshield in the Malibu?
>
> I rarely stand on anything other than the floor or the swim platform.
OK, it is still flimsy by comparison. Obviously you don't care.
> > Did you notice the higher windshield on the CC that keeps wind out of
> > your face?
>
> Yes, but I like the look of my boat better.
Appearence over function, good choice.
> > Did you notice the much plusher and comfortable seat on the CC?
>
> Hmmm...could almost fall asleep there.
Did you notice how water drains from this seat ? The base cushion is tilted
back and there is a notch in the back... Did you notice how it looks next to
the much cheaper looking Malibu seat? I'd recommend anyone buying a
Response try to order the Corvette seats instead. They are much better
looking.
> > Did you notice the PCM engine guaranteed not to vapor lock on the CC?
>
> I have only experienced vapor lock on a holley 4 barrel on my car on
> REALLY hot days after sitting for a bit and it wasn't that big of deal.
I have a houseboat that sits by a ski course and there is nothing more
embarrassing than for a skier to tear up the course, idle over and stop the
engine and have a drink and talk while their engine heat soaks. Then it is
time to go home and funny the damn thing won't start.... As long as you
don't mind getting your ass towed back to the dock or don't mind being
forced to wait another 45 minutes or so for your enigine to cool down it is
no big deal..
> > All the bolts going into a CC are backed with Metal. Check a Malibu
> > going through the assembly line and see how many things are just screwed
>
> into fiberglass. Long Term vibration will win agains screws sitting in
> fiberglass.
>
> Uh, most of the stuff was SS machine screws with washers and nuts. For
> the few things that were screwed I'm checked out to operate a
> screwdriver.
Are you checked out to fix up the holes with fiberglass later or fix
hairline cracks formed when the holes aren't drilled ?
> > Got some wiggle in your pylon? With the Malibu take it back to the
> > dealer to have it shimmed. With the CC tighten a U-Bolt.
>
> Not an issue even on older heavily used boats with skylons on our lake.
Define older ? I regularly see 10+ year old MC's and CC's that are in GREAT
shape. I saw a 1991 ProStar and a 1990 SN last weekend that had high hours
and looked new right out of the box.
It is easy to look at any boat with rose colored glasses. We can take all
the pieces we like and praise them, ignore what we don't like and then call
anything different weird, bad or ugly.
As I have said before there is no perfect boat out there for me. I really
like the Infinity's Layout and dash. I really like the speedo electronics
(not necessarily the gauges) of CC and CC's build quality. I really like
MC's trailer and interior design recently.
Now if I could get CC to build a boat with an Infinity functional layout, a
recent MC interior and a TSC hull I would be in buisness. The bottom line
is that they all have strengths and weaknesses.
Malibu does seem to sell their comparible boats for 3-8K less than a
comparable CC depending on the dealers and options. I have seen this from at
least half a dozen people. I will defend the fact that the CC is worth the
difference between it and the Malibu. That doesn't mean that they build the
perfect boat for everyone. I know they aren't building my "perfect" boat.
They may be the closest though depending on my priorities that day. Some
days I lean towards a better ergonomic match for me(not a CC), other days I
am thinking only about performance. The Infinity may be the best compromise
of close to SN performance with much better ergonomics or maybe a MC. Once
again this is a priorities decision. Infinity is lacking some of the spit
and polish of MC and CC, but they appear to build a solid boat and yes I
think they will be a force in this industry. They will not fade away in 5
years. I predicted Cobalt's tournament boat demise a year early, but I think
Infinity will be around and stand the test of time.
Glen Reeder
efw...@aol.com (Edward F.Weber) wrote:
>>if not what do you base your opinion on?
>
> Kris Lapoint
Ed, BFD. His brother Bob (remember him) was pushing Centurians.
Mark Lenox
Mark Kovalcson wrote:
> Well that is a pretty off base comment. What good is reading an instrument
> if it isn't accurate?
>
What good is an accurate instrument if you can't read it? I'll take a plain
old Airguide any day over the electronic speedos CC is currently using.
>
> > > Did you notice the Heavy Duty glove box cover that you can stand on in
> > > the SN. Did you notice the plastic thing(glove box) they tack under the
> > > windshield in the Malibu?
> >
> > I rarely stand on anything other than the floor or the swim platform.
>
> OK, it is still flimsy by comparison. Obviously you don't care.
He must not enter/exit his boat over the bow very much. We do that fairly
often when pulled up onto a sandbar somewhere. The HD glovebox lid, especially
with the rubberized/nonskid top is a great idea for this.
>
>
> > > Did you notice the higher windshield on the CC that keeps wind out of
> > > your face?
> >
> > Yes, but I like the look of my boat better.
>
> Appearence over function, good choice.
>
Alot depends on the conditions you ski in. Obviously he's a fair weather skier
or it would be more important to him.
> Malibu does seem to sell their comparible boats for 3-8K less than a
> comparable CC depending on the dealers and options. I have seen this from at
> least half a dozen people.
Hey, it's a living. It's pretty obvious that is how Malibu sells their
products. Price/Performance. The people that generally buy new boats don't
usually keep them long enough, or put them through enough runtime punishment for
them to notice the difference between a real quality rig like CC builds, and any
of the lesser brands. The also generally don't spend enough time in them to
really profoundly understand all the little ergonomic things that can really
make their entire skiing experience so much nicer. If all of those things are
true, and the buyer doesn't notice the difference, and they "saved" $3-$8K in
the process, well that's fine. Those that do spend alot of time in their boats
in all kinds of conditions very often end up realizing how important some of
these "little things" tend to be and buy a CC the next time around. That is
also just fine.
For me, I really don't care what kind of rig anybody else runs, but I am damn
glad that CC builds such a fine machine, and I couldn't possibly care less how
much they cost. The depreciation on my boats has been so low that the actual
purchase price is really a moot point. They are definitely not perfect; I
really dislike that whiney transmission, the new LCD speedometers, and that
really ugly new graphics "N" design they've got. However, once you've put a
few thousand hours on Ski Nautiques over the years like I have, you realize that
there isn't a better ski boat made. It's all in the design, CC deeply
understands what skiers do, and it shows.
If Malibu is "good enough" for the money you "saved", good for you. They
definitely are not good enough for me at any price.
Mark Lenox
Tom Ruta
...
>but there are differences that some consider worth the extra money. ...
How much money? As much as the delta that comes with sold
out CCs??
Tom
Tom Ruta
...
>> OK, it is still flimsy by comparison. Obviously you don't care.
>
>He must not enter/exit his boat over the bow very much. We do that fairly
>often when pulled up onto a sandbar somewhere. The HD glovebox lid, especially
>with the rubberized/nonskid top is a great idea for this.
>
I use the step through (standard, BTW -- not extra cost)
walk through on my Response regularly. The glove box ain't
anywhere near the walk through. Just solid fiberglass.
..
>Hey, it's a living. It's pretty obvious that is how Malibu sells their
>products. Price/Performance. The people that generally buy new boats don't
>usually keep them long enough, or put them through enough runtime punishment for
>them to notice the difference between a real quality rig like CC builds, and any
>of the lesser brands.
That must explain why you never see Malibu boats at ski
schools (not).
>The also generally don't spend enough time in them to
>really profoundly understand all the little ergonomic things that can really
>make their entire skiing experience so much nicer.
After 6 or eight ours in a boat they are all damn
uncomfortable. I'd rather ski.
> If all of those things are
>true, and the buyer doesn't notice the difference, and they "saved" $3-$8K in
>the process, well that's fine. Those that do spend alot of time in their boats
>in all kinds of conditions very often end up realizing how important some of
>these "little things" tend to be and buy a CC the next time around. That is
>also just fine.
There are proportionately less and less (4wise) each year
buying Correct Crafts. why is that you figure??
>
>For me, I really don't care what kind of rig anybody else runs, but I am damn
>glad that CC builds such a fine machine, and I couldn't possibly care less how
>much they cost.
Bob Burn's wet dream...
>The depreciation on my boats has been so low that the actual
>purchase price is really a moot point.
That seems to be the case for just about any boat over the
last three years.
>They are definitely not perfect; I
>really dislike that whiney transmission, the new LCD speedometers, and that
>really ugly new graphics "N" design they've got. ...
I agree - and then would also agree they are one outstanding
ski boat.
Tom
f_r_maier
...snip...
> YOU GUYS BROUGHT THIS UP! BUT IF WOULD LIKE TO KEEP RELIGION OUT OF
> THIS---------THAN DO!
...snip...
> If you dont like to hear about religion than dont bring it up.
...snip...
No, *they* brought it up, every time they printed a brochure or took out
advertising loaded with the trappings of self-serving pseudo-Xtianity. I'm
merely responding to their publicizing their personal religion and pushing
it in my face when I'm just trying to buy a skiboat.
Tell me, what were Ieshua's comments about the Pharisees and Saducees and
their public displays of their faith?
The Melons would be "gracious" to me? Like "sponsoring queer groups" is, I
suppose, your idea of reasonable, righteous, gracious Christian rhetoric? I
seem to have missed the passage where it says we should hate one another.
Probably old testament, huh?
Frank
P.S. All teleology, and epistomology aside, I still refuse to forgive CC for
demonizing beer. Their god (and yours, obviously), changed water to wine for
a party. Why, then, do the Melons denigrate beer?
pet...@my-deja.com
wrote: "I think what everyone seems to agree with is that no one has
much positive things to say about tige. (they're not bad.......just
not.....Good)"
Sorry Mike, but I for one am a very satisfied Tige 21V Riders Edition
owner. For my needs, 95% wakeboarding it's the perfect solution. I'd
buy it again in a heartbeat. The other boats, CC, Mailbu and others
are fine boats and may meet other peoples needs better than the
Tige...but not my needs.
In article <8hjir0$fga$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
h2o....@worldnet.att.net
pet...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <8hjir0$fga$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, h2o....@worldnet.att.net
> wrote: "I think what everyone seems to agree with is that no one has
> much positive things to say about tige. (they're not bad.......just
> not.....Good)"
>
> Sorry Mike, but I for one am a very satisfied Tige 21V Riders Edition
> owner. For my needs, 95% wakeboarding it's the perfect solution. I'd
> buy it again in a heartbeat. The other boats, CC, Mailbu and others
> are fine boats and may meet other peoples needs better than the
> Tige...but not my needs.
Sorry, you are right. I made a very generalized statement based on my
opinion and that of a few others who have been conversing specifically
in this post. I was in a hurry and trying to finish quickly and didn't
quite express my thought the way I wanted. I hereby retract my last
paragraph.
Edward F.Weber
>Christianity;
You call that right wing huh? Well guys if you want to start bashing them for
their Christian evangelism you are definitely barking up the wrong tree.They
could sponser all the other queer groups like Corparate America and the like.
You call that radical huh. Well remember that on your last day when all you
have between you and Hell is Jesus Christ.
YOU GUYS BROUGHT THIS UP! BUT IF WOULD LIKE TO KEEP RELIGION OUT OF
THIS---------THAN DO!
They are not tryng to make a buck by selling JESUS they are trying to
help their fellow man because they honestly care about where you may spend
eternity and it wont be behind the boat.
If you dont like to hear about religion than dont bring it up. Because
I'll never let you bash them. I'd throw my lot in with the Melloons anyday. You
better read the bible a little closer. He saved the "hooker" from a certain
death.
"The bible is as foolishneth to the unsaved " ( go look that one up) You
better get yourself right friend. I personally dont care what you think about
the Melloons but I can bet that they would have been more gracious to you
than you have them.
Mark Kovalcson
> P.S. All teleology, and epistomology aside, I still refuse to forgive CC for
> demonizing beer. Their god (and yours, obviously), changed water to wine for
> a party. Why, then, do the Melons denigrate beer?
As a Catholic who married Baptist I have noticed a lot of differences in how
these two Christian religions handle the whole concept of alcohol. Catholics
are well known for having alcohol at weddings etc... where the Baptists seem as
a whole to consider this a bad thing. I rarely drink, so this subject really
doesn't impact me much, but I hardly think that my wine collection is evil
either. A sweet white wine with Spicy Indian food is a great combination and a
glass of wine or beer for that matter even appear to be healthy to have
according to the recent cardiovascular studies on alcoholic beverages reducing
the chance of heart attacks.
Now all that aside I consider mixing alcohol and boating/skiing a bad mix.
Obviously many on the lake see this another way. I have no problem with people
out on a boat that is anchored down or in dock drinking and being merry, but
driving or pulling skiers or skiing while drinking can be dangerous. I'm not
sure who at CC decided that the beer sponsors were something that they didn't
want to be associated with. Obviously MC didn't have a problem with this and I
don't see them as bad for doing so. I also don't have a problem with a family
owned company standing up for what they believe in. Most people don't have the
guts to put their faith into practice and even if I don't see alcohol as evil, I
respect a company for being willing to take an unpopular stance on something
that they believe in. This stance didn't serve the best interest of their
company financially, yet they did it anyway.
Edward F.Weber
Friend-I dont hate queers,unforunately I deal with them on a daily basis.
Seeing that you know the old testament you must know God's views on
homosexuality.He couldn't be more explicit. He doesn't hat e the sinner he
hates their sin.
You have got to be joking if you think they are blatant evangelists. They
have a few biblical references and you cant handle it.
I'll will guess you are Jewish .Well you should know then that salavation
will come from the jews .Of course Jesus is Jewish.
>Tell me, what were Ieshua's comments about the Pharisees and Saducees and
>their public displays of their faith?
>
You must be joking if this is a comparison to Meloons. Is this what you
consider them "White washed tombs"? Get real.
I guess St.Stephen said it best "you stiff necked brood of vipers"
Meloons have done nothing to cram religion down your throat they are simply
devout christians. Those are no class comments about Meloons.
God loves Israel and he loves you too.
John Anderson
"Edward F.Weber" <efw...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000607081329...@ng-ce1.aol.com...
> Meloons have done nothing to cram religion down your throat they are
simply
> devout christians.
Give it a rest. Wasn't it enough to simply have made that statement. Very
few people take someones comments seriously about not buying a CC because
the company publicly displays their Christian bias. Besides most companies
probably don't want people with fanatical viewpoints buying their products
anyway. They are probably the same people who will blow any little issue
with the product out of proportion, and somehow turn a profit from the sale
into a liability.
John
lakewood...@yahoo.com
the course with 2 people in the boat. The best wake I found was with
the taps setting on 3. Still too much wake to shorten much line. I
also boarded behind it with 8 people in the boat and the wake was
AWESOME ( sorry, I know that word is overused). Great ramps, huge
wake, just a little wider than I was used to but excellent overall.
Rod
In article <8hkcb1$2sp$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
pet...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <8hjir0$fga$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, h2o....@worldnet.att.net
> wrote: "I think what everyone seems to agree with is that no one has
> much positive things to say about tige. (they're not bad.......just
> not.....Good)"
>
> Sorry Mike, but I for one am a very satisfied Tige 21V Riders Edition
> owner. For my needs, 95% wakeboarding it's the perfect solution. I'd
> buy it again in a heartbeat. The other boats, CC, Mailbu and others
> are fine boats and may meet other peoples needs better than the
> Tige...but not my needs.
>
> In article <8hjir0$fga$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> h2o....@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> >
> >
> > I think what everyone seems to agree with is that no one has much
> > positive things to say about tige.
> > (they're not bad.......just not.....Good)
> >
> > Mike
lakewood...@yahoo.com
ma...@perfectpull.com wrote:
> lakewood...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > Did you notice the little vinyl arm rest thingy that is just
screwed
> > > into the fiberglass leaving exposed phillips head screws on the
Malibu ?
> >
> > No, my boat does not have that feature.
>
> I just saw a brand new Response LX in a showroom yesterday and it had
them.
> I'm not saying that they don't function. I just think they look
unfinished
> and tacky. I also see long term service of the instruments as being
more
> difficult.
Mark, I just ran down to the boat in the rain (Washington State, we get
used to it) and pulled the cover off just to make sure I wasn't
mistaken. If you are talking about the vinal arm rest over the stereo
then no, there are no exposed screws there. The hinge is to the inside
and there are no exposed screws along that panel. I have a 99 Malibu
Response LX. Maybe the news ones have them, I will have to check my
buddy's as he has a 2000 model. The only other thing I can think of is
that there is a difference between the boats that come out of Merced
and the ones from Tenn.
>
> > > Did you notice the well integrated form fitting vinyl section
extending
> > from foor to the top of the deck on the CC ? Notice all the guages
that
> > you can put down there?
> >
> > What additional guages would I want and do I have to stand on my
head
> > to read em?
>
> Did you notice that Malibu and CC both moved the radio to make more
room on
> the dash or make leg room ?
> Now I will admit that having a 4 in one instrument makes this less of
an
> issue, so Malibu has a different applicable solution to CC and it has
just
> as much merit.
>
> > > Did you notice all the exposed phillips head screws in the dash
board
> > on the Malibu ?
> >
> > No, mine are machine allen screws.
My wife wanted the fake wood grain panels so....that is what we have
and the screws holding it in are allen screws with machine thread.
>
> What model is your boat again ? The Response LX sure has them.
>
> > > Oh yeah that's right some people are
> > > replacing their fogged up KM Gauges pretty regularly.
> >
> > Is this a reflection on Malibu or Kysor? MC, MB and many others use
> > Kysor too as they are the best analog on the market. (Minus the fog
> > problem)
>
> True enough. I still think Infinity's Kysors look the best.
>
> > Funny CC isn't having that problem, but CC has easy dashboard
access for
> > people adding
> > Perfect Pass systems or just making it easier to replace a burnt out
> > instrument
> > > light bulb.
> > >
> > Um-you just cant read the gauges maybe they should just go without.
>
> Well that is a pretty off base comment. What good is reading an
instrument
> if it isn't accurate?
I ski between 7AM and 10AM depending on the day and also evenings
anywhere between 4PM till dusk. My comment should have been if you
can't read them it doesn't matter how accurate they are.
I guess it may be an issue if the glove box was in the center of the
walk thru but the glovebox is on the passenger side under the
windshield. The Response LX has a step thru with anti skid tape
through the center. Why would I stand on the glovebox when it is
almost impossible to get to to stand on because of the windshield
overhang? What reason would I stand there in a precarious position?
>
> > > Did you notice the higher windshield on the CC that keeps wind
out of
> > > your face?
> >
> > Yes, but I like the look of my boat better.
>
> Appearence over function, good choice.
It also fits my wife well who is fairly short. It was one of the few
boats she could sit comfortably in and still see all around. For me I
just scoot the seat back a bit and there is no problem with wind
catching my baseball cap.
My point was that I have not experienced this problem in any of the
boats I've been in no matter what brand it was.
>
> > > All the bolts going into a CC are backed with Metal. Check a
Malibu
> > > going through the assembly line and see how many things are just
screwed
> >
> > into fiberglass. Long Term vibration will win agains screws
sitting in
> > fiberglass.
> >
> > Uh, most of the stuff was SS machine screws with washers and nuts.
For
> > the few things that were screwed I'm checked out to operate a
> > screwdriver.
>
> Are you checked out to fix up the holes with fiberglass later or fix
> hairline cracks formed when the holes aren't drilled ?
I doubt this will be a problem but if it is I will either glass it or
let the dealer do it under warrantee. They are extremely service
oriented. The same for CC handling the 20" hull crack that came from
nowhere on my ski partners SN. The dealer did a nice job repairing it.
>
> > > Got some wiggle in your pylon? With the Malibu take it back to
the
> > > dealer to have it shimmed. With the CC tighten a U-Bolt.
> >
> > Not an issue even on older heavily used boats with skylons on our
lake.
>
> Define older ? I regularly see 10+ year old MC's and CC's that are
in GREAT
> shape. I saw a 1991 ProStar and a 1990 SN last weekend that had high
hours
> and looked new right out of the box.
I think the quality of the Malibu boats are much better than they once
were. The specific boat I was thinking of was a 94 Echelon. This boat
is severly abused, it's had a hard life, over 2000 hrs, most notable to
me is the 7 foot pylon with the web strap that the kids never bother to
tighten up. Once again, I go back to my Bayliner story. I think any
one of the top quality boats can last a lifetime. Especially with good
care and regular maintenance. We sure got our moneys worth out of that
old Bayliner and it wasn't near the boat that is manufactured by the
top tournament skiboat companies today. The rest just comes down to
personal preference and versatility. I like a lot of things about the
SN. It's a great boat. It just doesn't have the versatility that my
family needs. Even at the same price I would have had to chose the top
quality boat that had greater utility for my family.
When I was looking at boats Infinity was still trying to work the bugs
out of their product. They also had no presence here, no dealer, no
service, along with the fact that they are a new and unproven company
that was an easy decision.
Rod
>
> --
>
> Mark Kovalcson
> http://www.perfectpull.com
> Waterski Training Equipment
>
>
f_r_maier
>
> Friend-I dont hate queers,unforunately I deal with them on a daily basis.
Yeah, right.
> I'll will guess you are Jewish.
...snip...
Bad guess. Raised Catholic, now basically an atheist.
> >Tell me, what were Ieshua's comments about the Pharisees and Saducees and
> >their public displays of their faith?
> >
> You must be joking if this is a comparison to Meloons. Is this what you
> consider them "White washed tombs"? Get real.
Ieshua said it; don't you believe Him? It's a pretty straightforward comment
on public displays of "faith."
Frank - And no, I'm not "queer" either, not in the sense that you use that
unpleasant word.
P.S. Again, what about the alcohol question? What's wrong with beer and
wine?
f_r_maier
agree with your basic points. My point is that, while they are indeed free
to demonstrate their religion, I am free to choose not to give them my
money.
Frank
Mark Kovalcson
> Mark, I just ran down to the boat in the rain (Washington State, we get
> used to it) and pulled the cover off just to make sure I wasn't
> mistaken. If you are talking about the vinal arm rest over the stereo
> then no, there are no exposed screws there. The hinge is to the inside
> and there are no exposed screws along that panel. I have a 99 Malibu
> Response LX. Maybe the news ones have them, I will have to check my
> buddy's as he has a 2000 model. The only other thing I can think of is
> that there is a difference between the boats that come out of Merced
> and the ones from Tenn.
There may be a LOT more to that than I originally realized. Heck I have
talked to Malibu Boat dealers that will not take a boat from TN. Also based
on the number of replacement boats I have heard about (most on the East
Coast) from Perfect Pull customers I have talked too and the information Tom
Ruta has given me about how his boat was built, I would definitely say he
has a better boat then some I have seen out here. It was already mentioned
that they use different resins on each coast, I guess they may have
different bolt suppliers and possibly different jigging and QA/QC
practices. This wouldn't surprise me in the least, but they use black
phillips head screws and secure that vinyl arm rest with exposed screws at
least here in TN. I have seen it on a few boats now and I know this is a
piddly little thing, but it isn't finished looking and digging deeper there
are lots more little things that I don't like. There is just no reason to
have stuff like that in a still fairly expensive boat.
> When I was looking at boats Infinity was still trying to work the bugs
> out of their product. They also had no presence here, no dealer, no
> service, along with the fact that they are a new and unproven company
> that was an easy decision.
It sounds like you had some good reasons for your decisions. I personally
agree that ergonomics of a Response are better for family use than a SN. I
think not having the grab handles is a big minus. The SN is more of a hard
core skier boat and in three events it excels. You are right that
wakeboarding is not something is does well. I also think that the wedge
makes sense for this nitch. It doesn't make the best defined wakes or affect
handling in a possitive way, but it is a quick conversion to get some kind
of wake to use in a hurry. I'll give Malibu a lot of credit for that one.
As I said earlier build quality is only one of many aspects involved in
selecting a boat and I would not fault someone for buying a boat that I
wouldn't want. They are not buying it for me.
I think Infinity has come a long way since the early model I saw at IMTEC in
1999. A year ago I definitely would not have considered them either. They
definitely don't have a large dealer presence and I am be pretty sure it
will be hard for them to get into the Knoxville area, but they are viable.
Time will tell.
Mark Kovalcson
I thought that was understood, unless America become a communist regime while I
wasn't paying attention.
Frankly it wouldn't matter to me if CC was owned and operated by Budist Monks
as long as they built a good product.
It sounds like you are looking for a religious debate on what beliefs are
"correct". I don't think that questioning a persons faith and convictions will
do anything but piss a lot of people off. I don't think I have met many people
who completely agree on these matters. I know enough poeple who are Muslims,
Budists, and other less common religions (in the US) to judge a person by their
upbringing. Most parents teach their children the religion that they were
raised into and so on and so on. I honestly don't think I have the right to
judge what they believe or have any reason to be sure that the religion that my
parents raised me with is any better or more enlightened than theirs.
So if you want to judge them for their beliefs and boycott them for their
feelings about beer, be my guest.
I would show a little more respect even if I have a different viewpoint.
pet...@my-deja.com
of similar length. Hence, if you ride behind other boats you'll notice
the difference. I presume that is because the boat itself if wider
(100" beam) which results in one of the several reasons I really like
the Tige'... noticeably more room in the interior.
In article <8hlrdn$5ib$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
news-server.triad.rr.com
From: "f_r_maier" <f_r_...@email.msn.com>
-snip-
> P.S. Again, what about the alcohol question? What's wrong with beer and
> wine?
>
>
Frank,
Nothing's wrong with beer in the right setting, but drunkeness surely
doesn't mix with boating. I don't know what percentage of fatal boating
accidents are associated with drinking, but I bet it's higher than with
automobiles.
At beer company promotional events there is a lot of beer flowing. If I
owned a boat company, I might feel funny about promoting boats and offering
test drives in association with a beer promotion. I know nothing about CC's
stand on alcohol, so I can't comment on their reasoning.
Lee
f_r_maier
news-server.triad.rr.com <lb...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:qvA%4.35057$Ad6.2...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
Thanks, Lee,
There's an explanation which is plausible. I'm not sure I buy it,
personally. After all, beer companies sponsor other competitions, like
unlimited hydros. I don't think anybody's too worried about hydro drivers
getting drunk during the event.
But it is a reasonable comment; so, thanks.
Frank
Glen Reeder
>P.S. Again, what about the alcohol question? What's wrong with
beer and
>wine?
Probably nothing, if consumed in moderation. The problem with
beer, wine and any substance that may cloud your judgement is
that- it may cloud your judgement. Have you never done things
that you have regretted later while intoxicated? How much good
has come from alcohol use compared to the bad?
I really don't care if someone uses alcohol, drugs or any mind
altering substances, as long as it does not effect myself or
others in a negative way.
As for the Meloons, they probably don't want drunks in their
boats anyway:)
lakewood...@yahoo.com
ma...@perfectpull.com wrote:
> lakewood...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > Mark, I just ran down to the boat in the rain (Washington State, we
get
> > used to it) and pulled the cover off just to make sure I wasn't
> > mistaken. If you are talking about the vinal arm rest over the
stereo
> > then no, there are no exposed screws there. The hinge is to the
inside
> > and there are no exposed screws along that panel. I have a 99
Malibu
> > Response LX. Maybe the news ones have them, I will have to check my
> > buddy's as he has a 2000 model. The only other thing I can think
of is
> > that there is a difference between the boats that come out of Merced
> > and the ones from Tenn.
>
have
> talked to Malibu Boat dealers that will not take a boat from TN.
Also based
> on the number of replacement boats I have heard about (most on the
East
> Coast) from Perfect Pull customers I have talked too and the
information Tom
> Ruta has given me about how his boat was built, I would definitely
say he
> has a better boat then some I have seen out here. It was already
mentioned
> that they use different resins on each coast, I guess they may have
> different bolt suppliers and possibly different jigging and QA/QC
> practices. This wouldn't surprise me in the least, but they use black
> phillips head screws and secure that vinyl arm rest with exposed
screws at
> least here in TN. I have seen it on a few boats now and I know this
is a
> piddly little thing, but it isn't finished looking and digging deeper
there
> are lots more little things that I don't like. There is just no
reason to
> have stuff like that in a still fairly expensive boat.
The Tenn Malibu boat doesn't sound like the Malibu I know. If they are
truely that much different and I had to choose the Tenn model I may not
be a Response owner. I test drove and heavily inspected numerous boats
from Supra, MC, Tige, CC, M, and there was a bunch of other makes that
my friends have that I passed on even seriously looking at.
>
> > When I was looking at boats Infinity was still trying to work the
bugs
> > out of their product. They also had no presence here, no dealer, no
> > service, along with the fact that they are a new and unproven
company
> > that was an easy decision.
>
> It sounds like you had some good reasons for your decisions. I
personally
> agree that ergonomics of a Response are better for family use than a
SN. I
> think not having the grab handles is a big minus. The SN is more of
a hard
> core skier boat and in three events it excels. You are right that
> wakeboarding is not something is does well. I also think that the
wedge
> makes sense for this nitch. It doesn't make the best defined wakes or
affect
> handling in a possitive way, but it is a quick conversion to get some
kind
> of wake to use in a hurry. I'll give Malibu a lot of credit for that
one.
Actually, if you put about 200-250lbs in the bow it takes the hard peak
off the wake and gives you a much better ramp along with an even bigger
wake. That weight gives you more hull in the water plus gives the foil
(wedge) even more angle (by keeping the bow down) for even larger
wakes. I wouldn't say the handling was much different than any other
boat that I've driven with similar weighting in the form of people and
fat sacs. Just don't forget the wedge is down when you take your wife
for a slalom run. (She wasn't too happy about that) :-)
> As I said earlier build quality is only one of many aspects involved
in
> selecting a boat and I would not fault someone for buying a boat that
I
> wouldn't want. They are not buying it for me.
>
> I think Infinity has come a long way since the early model I saw at
IMTEC in
> 1999. A year ago I definitely would not have considered them either.
They
> definitely don't have a large dealer presence and I am be pretty sure
it
> will be hard for them to get into the Knoxville area, but they are
viable.
> Time will tell.
>
Edward F.Weber
No it wasn't. I went back through that thread and no one sticks up for Meloons
while he throws crack after crack at them and then can't even own up to the
fact he brought it up. If you care at all about anything that's good ( or
anyone) dont just sit there and let people verbally abuse the innocent.If you
people want to fine- but I wont.
h2o....@worldnet.att.net
You'll probably get a lot of responses and an involved discussion
on the religion topic.
Edward F.Weber
What's that crack mean?
> now basically an atheist.
So--hence your hostility towards Christians-that's wonderful.
>Ieshua said it; don't you believe Him? It's a pretty straightforward comment
>on public displays of "faith."
You took that out of context---- and you know it.
If you want to quote scripture you had better compare scripture to scripture
and not one passage that you want to twist.
>And no, I'm not "queer" either, not in the sense that you use that
>unpleasant word.
I didn't ask you if you were or weren't. That's your buisness.
That unpleasant word? What word?
>P.S. Again, what about the alcohol question? What's wrong with beer and
>wine?
You like to read the bible obviously right?
You better start reading it a little closer then to answer your question.(
hint -try Proverbs)
Guys --let me give you a brief description of my day yesterday. Well while
taking my lunch I went into - low and behold a CORRECT CRAFT dealership-(Seager
Marine) to purchase some parts for my boat. Well the owner comes out and were
talking about the new Nautique rudder and on my way out he gave me a 2000 CC
brochure. ( this is after he had me on the floor in a full Nelson trying to
cram the New Testament done my throat---Little sarcasm there.) Well I get
back in the truck and while looking through the brochure I see some of their
references to God and Jesus.( And we are talking minor here) So I am thinking
to myself how nice that is of them not to forget to give thanks to the Lord
for thier lives.
Well guess what the first post I read was?
I'll give you one guess.
It'll be a cold day in Hell before I quit standing up for things I
believe in. And if you guys dont like it that's too bad.
Dont bring up religion here if you dont want to hear about it.
You know I just cant figure you guys out -here are Meloons --decent people
and no one but Mark K. and myself stick up for them. At what point do you feel
some one should or would you?
Drew & Bonnie Bailey
would appear that some people just like to shake others chain now and again
to get a reaction. Yes, I don't have a problem with someone telling me
about there beliefs. I does bother me when I answer the door at my parents
to listen to the 5'th pair of JW's on a Saturday. Thats a little much. Its
a fine line, but I think the world would be a whole lot beter if people
approached the line rather than run away from it in fear that they might
offend someone. Christian values and Beliefs are what this country was
built on. We need to see more of it. Does the fact that a professing
Christian made my boat change how I feel about it...NO. At least I know
that he wasn't hung over when he was laying the fiberglass. Or putting in
the floor...(don't go there Larson Man). Why are there hard fellings toward
atheists from Christians or vice versa? I have no idea, I thought
Christians were supposed to be try to be like Christ. He loved everybody.
He had enemies, but he never recipricated. He just demonstrated Love.
NOW CAN WE GET BACK TO TALKING ABOUT BOATS AND SKIING!!
I looked at an american skier this weekend and wondered if there were any
concerns about a 1987 American skier 800 hrs.
Edward F.Weber <efw...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000608015440...@ng-fx1.aol.com...
Brad Bradstreet
I looked at CC as seriously as I did was the Meloons' strong beliefs. I don't
have to agree with someone else to respect them and their opinions. I would
rather see someone think about a topic and stand by their opinion rather than
see a mental couch potato.
The Meloons believe strongly that their religious beliefs have an impact on how
they should do business. This translates, to me, to a conviction towards
quality and customer service. I want to do business with someone who stands by
their word and wants to make sure their product meets the customer's needs and
expectations. The fact they realize their blessings are due to God not their
own individual actions is great. And I am happy to be one more happy customer
on their list.
Brad
bigdav160
Umm, I beleive the founding fathers were Deist, not necessarily
Christian. In fact, not one of the first thirteen Presidents of
the US belonged to a Christian church.
<NOW CAN WE GET BACK TO TALKING ABOUT BOATS AND SKIING!! >
Right ON!
Edward F.Weber
>own individual actions is great. And I am happy to be one more happy customer
>on their list.
>
Thank you Brad
Edward F.Weber
>atheists from Christians or vice versa?
I dont disilke the individual , I simply dont like his comments .I'm free to
respond like he is to post.
> He just demonstrated Love.
Do you remember what he did in the temple to the moneychangers? He was standing
up for principle, he immediately showed his displeasure w/what was happening.
>NOW CAN WE GET BACK TO TALKING ABOUT BOATS AND SKIING!!
When people talk about Mp3 or beer (and I was one of them) that is ok.
But when a topic comes up that someone dislikes then were supposed to be quiet.
You can not have it both ways.
lakewood...@yahoo.com
>
> > > > Did you notice the higher windshield on the CC that keeps wind
out of
> > > > your face?
> > >
> > > Yes, but I like the look of my boat better.
> >
> > Appearence over function, good choice.
> >
>
weather skier
> or it would be more important to him.
Or maybe I'm just not a weenie. :-)
Todd Smith
questions yet.
George - Im a Tige owner. I bought a 22V new in 1998. We use if for
wakeboarding, airchair, kneeboard & the occasional inflatable. When my wife
wants to slolom, my neighbor pulls her behind his centurion. We frequently
carry many passengers (up to 12) in remarkable comfort. I don't have time
to enumerate the reasons as to why I chose the Tige, but I would like to say
that I spent about 4 months researching the alternatives on the market in
1998. I consider myself a well-informed consumer, and after 2 years of
frequent use, I'm still elated with my decision.
I don't participate in the notorious 'my boat is better' threads that
inevitably get dominated by sometimes pompous, highly opinionated and highly
intelligent and articulate individuals who IMO are implying with their
arguments that the average towboat consumer is not educated enough if they
choose to buy a brand other than their chosen favorite. But since your post
was obviously not intended to go that direction, I would like to address
your questions.
Q - "Like Mastercraft, are there models and/or years to avoid???"
A - Not that I'm aware of. I know and have met many Tige owners. Except
for the Tige-bashing by some in the 'my boat is better' threads, I have not
heard of any problem models or model years.
Q - "...found out what the "i" suffix is all about but what about the "pre"
models?"
A - You know the "i" designates a direct drivetrain and the "v" represents a
V-drivetrain. The "PRE" prefix stands for Precision. I think they stopped
using this prefix on their 1999 model numbers. There is no difference in
manufacture that I'm aware of. They still refer to their boats as
"PREcision Watersports Towboats". As a note, prior to '99, they also
carried the 'wt' suffix in their model numbers which stands for watersports
towboat. As an example, the model number for my 98 22v is PRE2200Vwt.
I'm sure you're an intelligent individual and have good reasons for being in
the market for a Tige. Best of luck to you in your boat purchase, whatever
you choose to buy, happy boating!
Todd
"George Weiss" <geo...@georgew.seanet.com> wrote in message
news:8h83vl$qd0$1...@q.seanet.com...
> P.S. I'm looking at 22 footers as well. Went to the Tige site and found
out
> what the "i" suffix is all about but what about the "pre" models?
>
> Geo
>
> George Weiss wrote in message <8h7ric$po0$1...@q.seanet.com>...
> >Am in the market for a 20'-21' Tige open bow, mid to late `90s, but
> >bewildered by the many models. Like Mastercraft, are there models and/or
> >years to avoid??? Thanks in advance.
> >
> >Geo
> >
> >
>
>
Ray Pulley
> h2o....@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
> > Sit in a newer Malibu, Mastercraft or Nautique and then sit in a
> > comparable Tige and you will immediately notice the difference in
> > quality of interior and fit and finish. (At least I did) Not to mention
> > materials used in construction.
>
> You sat them side by side and thought Malibu came ahead ???? On
> materials
> and Construction ?
>
> Did you notice the little vinyl arm rest thingy that is just screwed
> into
> the fiberglass leaving exposed phillips head screws on the Malibu ?
> Did
> you notice the well integrated form fitting vinyl section extending from
> foor to the top of the deck on the CC ? Notice all the guages that you
> can
> put down there?
>
> Did you notice all the exposed phillips head screws in the dash board on
> the Malibu ? Did you notice the nice machine screw Burnish knobs
> extending around the instrument cluster on the CC for easy removal
> without
> tools (over and over again) and a nice finished look.where the wood
> screws
> will waller out over time and look ugly on the Malibu. Of course you
> will
> never have to touch the dash right ? Oh yeah that's right some people
> are
> replacing their fogged up KM Gauges pretty regularly. Funny CC isn't
> having
> that problem, but CC has easy dashboard access for people adding Perfect
> Pass systems or just making it easier to replace a burnt out instrument
> light bulb.
>
> Did you notice the huge aluminum frame holding the engine and pylon in
> place on the CC ? Did you notice the fiberglass cylinder holding the
> pylon
> in the Malibu ? Did you know there are just a few washers under the
> fiberglass engine mounting system of the Malibu compared to about a 2
> foot
> long piece of 1/4" thick angle aluminum under the SN's stringers that
> the
> engine/pylon frame bolt to both vertically and horisontally ?
>
> Did you notice the new electronics in the CC will dual damping rate
> Speedos?
> Did you notice the thicker vinyl CC uses ?
> Did you notice the Heavy Duty glove box cover that you can stand on in
> the
> SN. Did you notice the plastic thing(glove box) they tack under the
> windshield in the Malibu?
>
> Did you notice the higher windshield on the CC that keeps wind out of
> your
> face?
> Did you notice the much plusher and comfortable seat on the CC?
> Did you notice the PCM engine guaranteed not to vapor lock on the CC?
>
> Then there is all the stuff that isn't even remotely visable unless you
> see
> them building the boat.
>
> The front lifting ring is secured to both the hull and deck on the CC.
> Does a Malibu even have lifting rings anymore?
>
> All the bolts going into a CC are backed with Metal. Check a Malibu
> going
> through the assembly line and see how many things are just screwed into
> fiberglass. Long Term vibration will win agains screws sitting in
> fiberglass.
>
> Did you notice the simple things for easy maintenance. Pull two pegs and
> the whole engine box comes off the CC.
>
> Got some wiggle in your pylon? With the Malibu take it back to the
> dealer
> to have it shimmed. With the CC tighten a U-Bolt.
>
> Most boats look great on the showroom floor. Few stand the test of time
> like a CC.
>
> I could write another page about all the things MC does better than
> Malibu,
> but suffice it to say CC and MC still build better boats judging by
> materials and construction methods than Malibu in some very noticable
> ways.
>
> When someone tries to put them all on a level playing field, they are
> just
> trying to make us all look ignorant.
>
> Performancewise I think the top 3 closed bow tournaments ski boats are :
>
> CC's SN, Infinity's ZX-1, Malibu's Response
>
> Tige's aren't in the running. Supra's Comp is close. MB's ProBoss 190 is
> close. Hopefully performancewise MC will be on the Map again soon.
>
> --
>
> Mark Kovalcson
> http://www.perfectpull.com
> Waterski Training Equipment
Ah, some things never change. I have not visited here in something like a
year due to the seemingly never ending and boorish bashing by some regular
posters, and when I come back for a brief visit? More of the same.
Mark, as usual a portion of your post is total BS, and you do look ignorant,
but how can you blame that on someone else?
For the record:
The Maxwell Smart armrest has no exposed screws. If you lift the cover, the
hinge has screws. The last time I checked, most hinges are screwed down.
Duh.
My boat has nice allen screws in the dash, and they are screwed into machined
threaded inserts, not wood or fiberglass. Removal is simple, and can be
accomplished over and over again. Strangely, I have only had to remove it
once to put in a depth sounder. Maybe CC was planning for failure and
replacement of the electronics module? I see no reason why a dash should be
removable without a screwdriver or an allen wrench. I keep both on board,
don't you? By that logic, you could not screw down anything you might ever
want to remove (as it is not likely that you will need to remove the dash any
more often than say, the distributor cap).
No problems with my engine mounting system, either, nor any with the '94 I
used to own (now resting comfortably in my sister's garage).
No vapor lock problems with my engine either. In fact, this problem seems to
have been solved throughout the industry in general, and was never a problem
associated with just one brand of boat, so what is your point? Demagoguery,
plain and simple.
Try doing a little research before posting something like "Does a Malibu even
have lifting rings anymore?" Asking a snide question proves nothing but that
you can be snide. If they are not offered and you know that for a fact, and
you have some knowledge that bears upon the subject at hand as to why, please
state it.
My pylon is going strong, even with heavy use of an extended pylon for two
years now. Do any wakeboarding Mark? Have any EXPERIENCE with extra stress on
the pylon beyond slalom skiing? Oh, I forgot, you looked at one once or
twice, and your insider network of boating operatives (read: CC dealers and
owners) leaked the true story only to you.
You left out the stupid Nike N swoosh and Ruta's Bayliner tape stripes, the
dumb and unnecessarily expensive electronics dash, the cramped interior and
ugly motorbox with cup holders tacked on to the outside, the pedestrian
stitching of the interior, the unbound edges of the carpet, the cramped
trunk, the inability of a single hull to slalom and wakeboard equally well,
the time it takes to convert a CC ballast system from wakeboard to slalom
(unlike the 10 seconds it takes with The Wedge), the tiny platform, the ugly
bustle butt rear end that is difficult to step over and no better than the
old angle design to sit on, the significantly slower top end, the whiny
tranny, just to name a few.
Have you bought a CC yet Mark, our are you just still just a CC wannabe?
Just curious.
Ray
Ray Pulley
Mark,
I posted this after signing on with a few minutes to spare, and had not seen your
apology that even included a reference to me! I must be a legend in my own
mind.<smile>
As usual, I was a bit tough on you too, but you cannot expect me to not comment
on things that are simply not true or that you completely mis-characterized in
that post.
As I have stated before, there is no question that CC makes a more solidly
designed boat in some ways, than any other on the market. It appears that they
have the best slalom hull going as well. This does not mean that it is the best
boat on the market.
It is decidedly more expensive, and has at least as many objectionable attributes
as many other boats. I am also not convinced that there is any proof (read:
failure rate stats) available that allow a meaningful comparison as to whether
the apparently more solid design of some aspects of the boat add up to a lower
failure rate in actual use. I would suspect that the failure rates of components
supplied by sub-contractors (gauges, engines, trannies, etc...) fail at similar
rates industry wide, and that failure of other components like structural
elements is anecdotal and not useful without the whole picture and the installed
base to compare it to. We can all point to someone who has had almost every
conceivable type of failure in almost every brand of boat.
As a Malibu owner, apology accepted! Back to skiing, working and living.
Ray
Tom Ruta
....
>Ah, some things never change. I have not visited here in something like a
>year...
OH NO! IT'S ALIVE! Welcome back Ray!
Tom
Kevin Baugh
In article <r03aks8967l8lfbvv...@4ax.com>,
ru...@cadvision.com wrote:
> Ray Pulley <r...@rational.net> wrote:
>
> ....
> >Ah, some things never change. I have not visited here in something
like a
> >year...
>
> OH NO! IT'S ALIVE! Welcome back Ray!
>
> Tom
>
--
Kevin R Baugh
krb...@ezl.com
http://www.ezl.com/~krbaugh
http://www.ezl.com/~krbaugh/carla
RWalk...@aol.com
question....are there years of Tiges to avoid??? He didn't seem to care
about, Glvoe boxes, exposed screws, etc....
Well George YES I believe there are years to avoid. And the little
history lesson below will explain why.
Tige was started about ten years ago by longtime (and well traveled)
boat man Charlie Pigeon...they guy has worked at just about every
inboard builder in his career (is this good or bad?).
From 1991 -1995 Tige offered two models the 2000slm closed bow and the
2002slm open bow. These boats were actually Ski Centurion Falcons with
different graphics and colors. Built right along with the Centurions at
Fineline Industries in Merced CA. The boats sold well in California and
were known as excellent slalom boats. I had a 1993 Falcon OB and at
that time its wake was hard to beat especially considering it was an
open bow! And like the Centurions the Tiges had nice gel coat work, Fit
and Finish was very good.
In 1995 Charile patented the concept of TAPS an adjustable ride plate
on the back of the boat. Some say it was his idea, others believe it
was Rick Lee's at Fineline, still others talk about a Hydrodyne that
never was produced, but Tige got to the patent office first. Until that
time Tiges were sold as 'Tournament Boats' but the trim plate is not
allowed in competetion so Tige chose to create it's own catagory PREws.
Precision Watersports Boats, or something like that.
Also that year Tige built it's own factory in Abline TX. A slowly
ramped up production of 2002s, 2100s, and 2050s. This is where IMO
quality took a nose dive for a couple of years. I know of owners and a
former dealer that expereinced numberous problems first hand. Boats
were shipped with poor gel finish, tape lines were sloppy, engine
rigging wasn't up to par etc.
They seem to have solved most of the problems and I've hear very good
things about the 2100i & v of recent years. They dropped the 2002 a
couple years ago and now have a 2000i but I know very little about it.
So I'd suggest either going for an early 90's Tige (just look at the
manufacture plate) if it says Fineline Industries I'd say your OK.
If it was built by Tige in TX I'd make sure you are looking at a late
97-98 or newer. All the boats have wood floors so that's not really an
issue here. The TAPs is kinda neat and if you want the best of slalom
and wakeboarding or plan on being on large lakes...it's a plu
Tom Ruta
>hot boat has numerous tests on the tige' on their website
Except that they are all older than dirt -- hardly fair to
Tige.
Tom