Men's volleyball is getting boring ...
The KingPin
retired and it was the first time I actually watched a volleyball game for
the pure enjoyment of it and not on a coaching perspective.
The first thing I noticed is that men's volleyball is now purely a power
game, the players are even taller than those of basketball now (The Russian
were taller in average than any other basketball team in the Olympics) ...
the game is slow to death, except for teams like Korea and maybe Brasil.
Each team rely on a couple of heavy hitters on the outside, either right or
left. These guys only hit medium high set and they just try to crush the
ball every time, I have nothing against that but I was listening to the game
between Russia and the USA with a couple of friends (volleyball newbies) and
they were saying that women volleyball is much better because the game looks
harder to play (????) and that the rallies are longer ... The FIVB initiated
a couple of rule changes like the let serve, the one-toss only serve etc.
But after a couple of months the players are now serving like they used to,
i.e. maniacs ...
Now it's like everything has to be powerful, the finesse of the game is no
longer there. Of course there are a couple of players like Grbic (Vlad),
Papi, Gilberto, and a couple of others who still can play a finesse game
from time to time but the search for taller players has lead to more
unskilled players, and now with the Libero it's even worse, cause you can
hide a big unskilled player in the back row ... this lead to more
specialized players and more rigid plays to accomodate those overspecialized
players when they are in the frontrow attacking ...
I saw some incredible defensive plays by the Yugoslavian team in the final
and I was so happy that they destroyed Russia, Yugoslavia proved that in
order to win you need some middle-sized and very skilled players like the
Grbic brothers and Yuskevic. Not only tall oversized players like Iakovlev,
Kazakov (although very skilled for his height) and the other Russian
monsters on the floor. The young Yugos Mishkevic (I don't know if it's the
real spelling sorry) was impressive for his size because he was agile and
was hitting from the middle in the frontrow and the rightside in the back
row. The other Yugos middle was sometime defending in the back row also,
proving that tall player can have defensive skills ... Remember that in the
last World Cup Yugoslavia was one of the rare team not to use the Libero ...
Yugoslavia gold medal just prove that the most skilled and talented team won
... Size can bring you to a certain level but skill, heart and intensity
make you win gold medals.
It was not such a great tournament and the only team that impressed me was
Yugoslavia, all the top teams except Russia (not counting the final),Brasil
and Argentina underachieved. Brasil (they should have been 4 or 5) was
interesting with a combination of old (Tande, Mauricio, Giovanne) and young
(Gilberto, the two middles). Argentina was surprising but very boring to
watch (Milinkovich all the way) ... Italy choked like they always do at the
Olympics (In my opinion they had their weakest team since the last ten
years) , the Netherlands are in reconstruction and too slow to win anything,
the USA I prefer not to comment on and the others were just figuring.
The women tournament was much better and the matches were more interesting,
it seems to me that the women are playing the game now like the men used to
play it in the 80's ...
Sorry for the inconsistencies but I had a lot to say and not a lot of time
to type it ... :)
The KingPin
"Ask a question and you're a fool for three minutes;
do not ask a question and you're a fool for the rest
of your life."
- Chinese proverb
GoGoGophers
>men's volleyball is now purely a power game
>The women tournament was much better and the matches were more interesting
Defensive rallies are what I really like about the game of volleyball
and that just doesn't happen a whole lot in the men's game now.
Also, the average human can learn more useable tactics from watching
the women play than from watching the men.
hal
"The KingPin" <sinister_surfer(spamguard)@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have been coaching men's volleyball for the last 12 years, I am now
> retired and it was the first time I actually watched a volleyball
game for
> the pure enjoyment of it and not on a coaching perspective.
>
power
> game, the players are even taller than those of basketball now (The
Russian
> were taller in average than any other basketball team in the
Olympics) ...
> the game is slow to death, except for teams like Korea and maybe
Brasil.
Wow, did you see the Yugoslavia/Russia final today? Anything but
boring! Long rallies, incredible digs, every bit as exciting as the
girls with more fire. Sadly, the US is a long way from that level of
play.
> The women tournament was much better and the matches were more
interesting,
> it seems to me that the women are playing the game now like the men
used to
> play it in the 80's ...
>
> Sorry for the inconsistencies but I had a lot to say and not a lot of
time
> to type it ... :)
>
> The KingPin
>
> "Ask a question and you're a fool for three minutes;
> do not ask a question and you're a fool for the rest
> of your life."
> - Chinese proverb
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Vince Busam
>men's volleyball is now purely a power game
>The women tournament was much better and the matches were more interesting
"The Play" (Vladimir Grbic, if you missed it, you _have_ to see it) is a
good example of how exciting the men's game can be. Digs and long rallies
are fewer and farther between, but they're much more impressive than in the
women's game. And even a quick side-out (er, I guess that would be a point
now) still involves a rocket serve and a booming spike, which are few and
far between in the women's game, unless Kristee Porter is playing.
Vince
--
-----------------------------------
Vince Busam
vi...@sixpak.org
http://sixpak.org/vince/
The KingPin
>boring! Long rallies, incredible digs, every bit as exciting as the
>girls with more fire. Sadly, the US is a long way from that level of
>play.
Yeah but it is due toYugoslavia's playing, not Russia by any means, I don't
remember them even digging a ball succesfully ... the only thing exciting
about Russia is their power and height and even that gets boring after a
while ... Yugoslavia is the perfect blend of tall and skilled players right
now, that's why their the best in the world.
As long as the USA (and Canadian also) players won't have the opportunity to
play professionally here in America it'll be a very long shot for them to
even crack the top 5 in the world on a consistent basis ...
Professional play allow your average player to get better and your good
player to get exceptional, right now only the exceptional players get a
chance to play in Italy (pressure and quality) or even Japan (for the
pressure) ... the other leagues are not as strong and competitive as these
two ...
The KingPin
>"The Play" (Vladimir Grbic, if you missed it, you _have_ to see it) is a
>good example of how exciting the men's game can be. Digs and long rallies
>are fewer and farther between, but they're much more impressive than in the
>women's game. And even a quick side-out (er, I guess that would be a point
>now) still involves a rocket serve and a booming spike, which are few and
>far between in the women's game, unless Kristee Porter is playing.
I know Vince but almost all the damn spectacular plays came from the Yugos,
that's my point. There is only a couple of team now that are interesting, a
few years back you had different style of play, now even the Koreans and
Japenese are trying to emulate the Europeans style of play, Team USA gave us
a spectacular and very interesting way to play the game in the 80's, now
every damn team in the world is looking to build on the same premise, and
that's what makes it a boring game ... did you see a shoot set to the
outside in the entire tournament, except by the Koreans ? Now the game is
slower than ever, it's like we're back in the sixties with high sets
eveywhere and a couple of quick middle attacks from time to time ...
BTW it was a hell of a play by Grbic, that guy is reminiscent of Kiraly
sometimes because of his intensity on the floor, he is more vocal but the
look is the same ...
Kim Blanksö Pedersen
The KingPin wrote:
> >Wow, did you see the Yugoslavia/Russia final today? Anything but
> >boring! Long rallies, incredible digs, every bit as exciting as the
> >girls with more fire. Sadly, the US is a long way from that level of
> >play.
>
> Yeah but it is due toYugoslavia's playing, not Russia by any means, I don't
> remember them even digging a ball succesfully ...
You should take a look again at the end of the second set (sorry game) in the
Final. There the Russians have several excellent digs. KBP
The KingPin
don't
> remember them even digging a ball succesfully ...
Kim Wrote :
> You should take a look again at the end of the second set (sorry game) in
the
>Final. There the Russians have several excellent digs. KBP
Yeah I know, I was exagerating a little to get my point across ;-)
Christian Perrier
> You should take a look again at the end of the second set (sorry game) in the
>Final. There the Russians have several excellent digs. KBP
As well as they had durgint the tournament, also. Mitkov is a very good
player at libero position...
Argentina is also one of the top teams in the defensive area. This is why
they have beaten Brazil in 1/4 final.
--
Christian Perrier
French VB Referee
Maurepas, France (Paris area)
Taylor Smith
In basketball, all it is.... back and forth... back and forth.... college
basketball is much more fun to watch b/c it's pure and they're not doing it
for money.
Even though i love men's volleyball, the women's volleyball is a lot more
exciting to watch.
But that is the evolution of sport. People get stronger and faster and
better, and we cant stop it.... so why not just live with it.
The KingPin
>Yea, i'm sorry to say, isn't that what is happening in most sports?
>In basketball, all it is.... back and forth... back and forth.... college
>basketball is much more fun to watch b/c it's pure and they're not doing it
>for money.
You know it seems like every damn sport is getting boring, it seems like the
defensive aspect of each major sport has evolved to a degree where only
defense matters, basketball and hackey are the two sports that comes to mind
... it seems that with the evolution of coaching and all the other
specialist out there that sports is now only a question of winning and that
the end justify the means ... pretty painful to see that happenning
particurlarly since the 80's was such a great decade in almost every sports,
volleyball included ...
College sport is beginning to mimick pro sports and that's a damn shame in
every way ... just too bad !
Volleyball on the other end suffer from the opposite problem, the offense is
much better than the defense ... One the main problem with men's volleyball
I think is that the athletes of today have surpassed the game as it is right
now, and it's not a liberace, a let serve or even an
anything-goes-first-contact that will do the trick, I really think that the
men's game need more drastic changes than these ones ... just raising the
net a little would improve play because balls would be spiked in less sharp
and devilish angles so the defense would be able to read it better and dig
it a little more often etc. I don't want to get into this cause it would be
too long and I want to sleep tonight ;)
Just my 2 cents worth anyway
Andy Read
as well put my two cents in.
It's not boring to coach, and I can tell you for a fact it is not boring
for our players to play both in practice and in matches.
So it simply must be for some of you to watch... that's too bad that you
aren't able to enjoy the athletic ability and effort the players put
forth at both the collegiate and international level. Perhaps a
stirring game of lawn bowling might be better suited to your taste.
But if that's not quite your cup of tea, let's design a game where the
ball goes across a net, back and forth at a speed somewhere near that of
paint drying, that way people can sit in the stands and use it as a cure
for insomnia... heck we dont' need to invent that game we already have
it, and its played by a couple of hundred teams at the collegiate
level. Yet, there is always the rare exception spread throughout the
country where the game looks different, in fact it looks very much like
the game everyone is complaining about which is so boooring.... and its
those teams, that play that booooring style that always seem to make it
a whole lot closer to the finals than most of there others sitting in
the stand complaining their bored. Maybe sitting on the sidelines is
all the excitment some people need.
I for one, prefer life in the fast lane...so if your the person infront
of me driving a lowly 55, kindly move over, pull over but at least get
out of the way.
--
Andy Read
Assist. Coach, Men's Volleyball, Long Beach State
L. Ravi Narasimhan
> Since this topic has seemed to continue on for far too long ... I might
> as well put my two cents in.
>
> It's not boring to coach, and I can tell you for a fact it is not boring
> for our players to play both in practice and in matches.
Simple pleasures for simple minds.
Of course, the thread was about what the game has become under the
present "watch" and not a screed on what the game once was. That subtle
difference between "being" and "becoming." But that's it, isn't it?
You lot are not much for subtlety. Wouldn't hurt you to look it up
though. Just to see what you're missing.
By the way, the 'b' is silent.
--- Oski
Webster? I don't even know 'er
---
Ravi Narasimhan
Dept. of Physics and Astronomy, UCLA
http://www.physics.ucla.edu/~oski
JSVBA
>net a little would improve play because balls would be spiked in less sharp
>and devilish angles so the defense would be able to read it better and dig
>it a little more often etc.
How about lowering the net so that the smaller players would also be able to
hit the ball straight down, then you could allow smaller, quicker, and better
defensive players to still play the game. Eveyone suggests raising the net but
how about lowering it?
Anyone have any real data or idea on what would happen if the men played on a
women's height net? Would it be more of an equalizer in terms of getting away
from needing TALL players?
MIchael Borga
JSVBA
The KingPin
>Since this topic has seemed to continue on for far too long ... I might
>as well put my two cents in.
Oh Andy you're quite grumpy aren't you ?...
>It's not boring to coach, and I can tell you for a fact it is not boring
>for our players to play both in practice and in matches
I know I love it, I am an ex-coach mn's coach, I wouldn't coach women's
volleyball because it wasn't fast enough ... but you react like a good men's
coach ... I was once like that not long ago ;-)
>So it simply must be for some of you to watch... that's too bad that you
>aren't able to enjoy the athletic ability and effort the players put
>forth at both the collegiate and international level. Perhaps a
>stirring game of lawn bowling might be better suited to your taste
I still enjoy it a lot, but I was enjoying a lot more before ... lawn
bowling could be exciting if they cut the grass a little to speed it up ;-)
>I for one, prefer life in the fast lane...so if your the person infront
>of me driving a lowly 55, kindly move over, pull over but at least get
>out of the way.
That's exactly my point Andy, I was saying that I preferred yesterday's
men's volleyball because it was faster and more creative, now it's almost
exclusivly high balls. Brasil and Korea were exciting to watch because of
the variation that they used in their offense ...
Men's volleyball is still better than 99% of the sports out there, it's just
that sometimes we are more sever with the sports we love ...
Bye
S.Gilbert alias The KingPin
lurker@home
Taylor Smith wrote in message ...
>Yea, i'm sorry to say, isn't that what is happening in most sports?
>In basketball, all it is.... back and forth... back and forth.... college
>basketball is much more fun to watch b/c it's pure and they're not doing it
>for money.
>
>exciting to watch.
>
men's high school team in the country!
Collin Powers
0.5 seconds. I love the mens game ... I love that you have got to be able
to see-react-execute the very same things as in a womens game ... but in
one-quarter of the time. I often watch a simple termination play in a mens
match and see three things that could have been done better, and trained
better. Some people see it as a simple, fast, athletic play that is not
representative of the sport of volleyball. I see it as a fast, athletic
play that represents all of volleyball.
"L. Ravi Narasimhan" <os...@planck.physics.ucla.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.0010052033010.7131-100000@gauss...
> On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, Andy Read wrote:
>
> > Since this topic has seemed to continue on for far too long ... I might
> > as well put my two cents in.
> >
> > It's not boring to coach, and I can tell you for a fact it is not boring
L. Ravi Narasimhan
> The people who are not much for subtlety are those who can't see a world in
> 0.5 seconds. I love the mens game ... I love that you have got to be able
Point taken. I should have withheld comment until I had seen a men's vb
match. Any idea where I could find one in the Los Angeles area?
--- Oski
Slim pickins
> to see-react-execute the very same things as in a womens game ... but in
> one-quarter of the time. I often watch a simple termination play in a mens
> match and see three things that could have been done better, and trained
> better. Some people see it as a simple, fast, athletic play that is not
> representative of the sport of volleyball. I see it as a fast, athletic
> play that represents all of volleyball.
>
>
>
> "L. Ravi Narasimhan" <os...@planck.physics.ucla.edu> wrote in message
> news:Pine.GSO.4.21.0010052033010.7131-100000@gauss...
> > On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, Andy Read wrote:
> >
> > > Since this topic has seemed to continue on for far too long ... I might
> > > as well put my two cents in.
> > >
> > > It's not boring to coach, and I can tell you for a fact it is not boring
> > > for our players to play both in practice and in matches.
> >
> > Simple pleasures for simple minds.
[ Snip ]
Andy Read
match. Any idea where I could find one in the Los Angeles area?"
--- Oski
Slim pickins
On Friday, October 27 at the Pyramid, all day there will be a 6 team tournament with UCLA, USC, CSUN, UCSD, UCI and Long Beach State. 3 courts in the morning, feature matches in the late afternoon and evening, including UCI vs UCSD, CSUN vs USC and UCLA vs Long Beach.
Just trying to help illuminate the ill informed.
Ravi Narasimhan
>
>--------------33F5F24B2A283E7D0B37FA83
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>"Point taken. I should have withheld comment until I had seen a men's
>vb
>match. Any idea where I could find one in the Los Angeles area?"
> --- Oski
> Slim pickins
>
>On Friday, October 27 at the Pyramid, all day there will be a 6 team
>tournament with UCLA, USC, CSUN, UCSD, UCI and Long Beach State. 3
>courts in the morning, feature matches in the late afternoon and
>evening, including UCI vs UCSD, CSUN vs USC and UCLA vs Long Beach.
On second thought, I've never seen a men's vb match and never had any
fundamental interest in it, so why start now?
>Just trying to help illuminate the ill informed.
You need some more alcohol in that spirit lamp, Diogenes.
--- Oski
Read rage
--
Ravi Narasimhan
Dept. of Physics and Astronomy, UCLA
http://www.physics.ucla.edu/~oski
Joe Rooney
"Ravi Narasimhan" <os...@w6yx.stanford.edu> wrote in message
news:8rnoa6$np1$1...@nntp.Stanford.EDU...
schnip:
> In article <39DF3992...@csulb.edu> Andy Read <ar...@csulb.edu>
writes:
>"Point taken. I should have withheld comment until I had seen a men's
>vb
>match. Any idea where I could find one in the Los Angeles area?"
> --- Oski
> Slim pickins
>
>On Friday, October 27 at the Pyramid, all day there will be a 6 team
>tournament with UCLA, USC, CSUN, UCSD, UCI and Long Beach State. 3
>courts in the morning, feature matches in the late afternoon and
>evening, including UCI vs UCSD, CSUN vs USC and UCLA vs Long Beach.
On second thought, I've never seen a men's vb match and never had any
fundamental interest in it, so why start now?
>Just trying to help illuminate the ill informed.
You need some more alcohol in that spirit lamp, Diogenes.
--- Oski
Read rage
Dear Unverklempt,
I didn't need smiley's to assess the tongue in cheek nature of that
"affrontage."
Joe
It only takes an idiot to raze a village<bg>.
lurker@home
Collin Powers wrote in message
<8xvD5.57033$Q56.1...@news-east.usenetserver.com>...
>The people who are not much for subtlety are those who can't see a world in
>0.5 seconds. I love the mens game ... I love that you have got to be able
>one-quarter of the time. I often watch a simple termination play in a mens
>match and see three things that could have been done better, and trained
>better. Some people see it as a simple, fast, athletic play that is not
>representative of the sport of volleyball. I see it as a fast, athletic
>play that represents all of volleyball.
>
Well put...... and conversely, for those of us who are accustomed to the
men's game, it can be dull to watch the ball go back-and-forth,
back-and-forth, not because of the lightning responses on both sides of the
net, but rather because there isn't enough muscle on either side to put the
ball away.