Jumping off one foot vs. two
Anthony Chan
I've always been curious about this. Most people
I know jump higher off one leg than two. In fact,
they usually get much higher off one leg, around
3-5 inches. I, myself, am quite the opposite; I
jump much higher off two legs than one. And it's
not due to lack of practice, I used to do a million
lay-ups in basketball practice in H.S.. Yet,
I can jumper higher vertically, without running
or anything, than a full sprinted one leg take-off.
Maybe it's my form; maybe I'm not converting all
my forward momentum to vertical momentum. Or, maybe,
you use different muscles. I'm not sure either way.
Oh well, I'd love to be able to jump higher off one
leg, then, maybe, I could actually dunk one of these
days.:)
-Anthony
Stanley Chang
Good question!!
I've been wondering the same too!!
Any help???
Personally, I am abou the same in both conditions.
--
Stanley Chang - #9
LCI Vball STARTER!!
LCI Bowling club MEMBER!!
LCI STUDENT!!
Marc A. Runkel
: Good question!!
: I've been wondering the same too!!
: Any help???
: Personally, I am abou the same in both conditions.
: --
Who jumps higher off one leg than two? Not I. Besides, in what part
of volleyball do you jump off of one leg? I'm a little confused by
this question.
--
Marc A. Runkel marc....@registrar.umass.edu
Network Analyst Of course, this is just my
Registrar's Office * Systems Support Group tiny, insignificant, humble
University of Massachusetts, Amherst opinion. If you don't like it....
Michael Rogers
: ... Besides, in what part
: of volleyball do you jump off of one leg? I'm a little confused by
: this question.
Spikers do when hitting the (slow) "slide" (not the same as the slide
described by Steve Timmons in the recent Volleyball magazine). The
takeoff is similar to that of a layup in basketball.
Marc A. Runkel
But even in a layup in basketball, you're still jumping with both
legs, one just jumps ahead of the other...
Anthony Chan
: : Spikers do when hitting the (slow) "slide" (not the same as the slide
: : described by Steve Timmons in the recent Volleyball magazine). The
: : takeoff is similar to that of a layup in basketball.
: But even in a layup in basketball, you're still jumping with both
: legs, one just jumps ahead of the other...
What? You take off on one leg during a lay-up. It is impossible
to jump off both legs, when one leg is in front of the other,
on a lay-up....
-Anthony
Craig Spring
I do! Try slam dunking a ball and see which is easiest (or in my case,
which way you get the closest).
For me, jumping off two feet allows me to use my entire body when
hitting. Again, think about slam dunking in basketball. How many times
have you seen someone slam dunk hard enough to break the backboard when
jumping off one foot?
There are times when it is appropriate to jump off one foot. Some plays
require a quick change of direction on the approach and are easier to do
off one foot (e.g. fake a front approach and then run around back and
hit a four). It can also be useful when the set is way inside and you
have to run like hell just to get to the ball (not that that ever
happens at the level I play :)).
Marc A. Runkel
I think I'm misunderstanding what you are all saying, or you're
misunderstanding what you are doing.. In a layup, you jump with both
legs, first the front leg and then the second... If you don't, you end
up dragging that second leg behind you... Which will NEVER let you
jump as high.. As for dunking, and spiking, I find that jumping with
both legs at the same time lets me jump higher, it could be that for
some people, jumping with one leg first lets them swing that leg up
faster, giving them more "lift."
Anthony Chan
: I think I'm misunderstanding what you are all saying, or you're
: misunderstanding what you are doing.. In a layup, you jump with both
: legs, first the front leg and then the second... If you don't, you end
: up dragging that second leg behind you... Which will NEVER let you
: jump as high.. As for dunking, and spiking, I find that jumping with
: both legs at the same time lets me jump higher, it could be that for
: some people, jumping with one leg first lets them swing that leg up
: faster, giving them more "lift."
My point was that when you do a layup, as opposed to a
spike, one foot leaves the ground before the other. You
do use both legs when doing a lay-up, but not in the same
fashion as in a spike.
Most people I know or have seen are able to slam dunk off
a one-leg takeoff, but not a two leg one. The same rule
applies to high-jumpers, as they jump higher off one leg,
obviously, than two. I think it is a much more efficient
way to transfer horizontal momentum to vertical momentum.
-Anthony
Kevin C. Almeroth
True, but jumping off one leg doesn't mean your other leg is useless.
Both legs do essentially the same thing, just not at the same time.
So while it looks like only one leg is doing the work, the other is
actually contributing to your upward and forward momentum.
Ever since Mikey Jordan quite basketball, I wonder what he would have
been like playing volleyball. It seems to me that he does just fine
using a "one-legged jumped" (quotes because you don't really jump
with just one leg, see above). Besides, what would he look like taking
a 3 step approach...
I think that using a "one-legged jump" gives more horizontal momentum,
either forward (like a 10) or to the side (like a slide). And horizontal
momentum (at least forward) isn't always desired.
-Kevin Almeroth
(K.L. I tried sending you mail, but it bounced...)
Michael Rogers
: >Marc A. Runkel (mru...@twain.ucs.umass.edu) wrote:
: >
: >: But even in a layup in basketball, you're still jumping with both
: >: legs, one just jumps ahead of the other...
: True, but jumping off one leg doesn't mean your other leg is useless.
: Both legs do essentially the same thing, just not at the same time.
The legs do different things. On a layup-style, one-legged take-off,
one leg is extending while the other is being raised (as in kneeing
someone in the stomach). In a traditional spike-approach, two-legged
take-off, both legs are extending.
In both cases both legs are aiding the jump. But so are the arms.
But no one has objected that jumping is at least a four-limbed affair.
And you've really got to wonder about a previous assertion that if you
jumped with only one leg, the other one would be left behind. Let's
not get too silly.
Eric Wang
>Ever since Mikey Jordan quite basketball, I wonder what he would have
>been like playing volleyball.
His arm backswing needs a little work. Watch him on alley-oops, or
celebrating in Phoenix (just before he chases the ball into the
stands): he pulls his arms back barely 45 degrees, with his forearms
pointing only about 30 degrees back from vertical, instead of the
Karch-like 95+ degrees. Then again, he knows he just has to get his
hands up to 11' or so, and he can do most of that with his legs
alone. Put him up against Holland's double-block and he'd *really*
start jumping.
>... what would he look like taking a 3 step approach ...
Like Joel Despaigne, maybe, only taller and more mobile ...
He'd just *have* to be a swing hitter, so he could alternate between
left shoots and right shoots on successive hits within the same
rally. Make those blockers chase him back and forth! They'd be
sucking wind by the time he broke a sweat :-) Pro vb players don't
condition themselves to run a court for 48 minutes -- MJ's mobility
and endurance would bewilder them.
Fringe benefit: nobody would be able to accuse him of not passing
the ball! :-)
Eric Wang
wa...@sml0.ge.uiuc.edu
Eric A Stout
>
>I think I'm misunderstanding what you are all saying, or you're
>misunderstanding what you are doing.. In a layup, you jump with both
>legs, first the front leg and then the second... If you don't, you end
>up dragging that second leg behind you... Which will NEVER let you
>jump as high.. As for dunking, and spiking, I find that jumping with
>both legs at the same time lets me jump higher, it could be that for
>some people, jumping with one leg first lets them swing that leg up
>faster, giving them more "lift."
>
Okay, this isn't rec.sport.basketball, but when you shoot a layup, you
approach the basket in a running stride, and the last step you take with your
ball-side foot never hits the ground, as you explode upward with the opposite
leg. I don't consider this jumping with both legs, as all the explosive power
comes from one leg, and momentum. If you stand on one leg in the position
from which you would normally shoot a layup, you can precisely duplicate the
layup motion, but without the power generated by the momentum of the approach.
This is a one-legged jump.
Eric
Steve Mundro
>Stanley Chang (aj...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
>
>
>: Good question!!
>: I've been wondering the same too!!
>: Any help???
>: Personally, I am abou the same in both conditions.
>: --
>
>Who jumps higher off one leg than two? Not I. Besides, in what part
>of volleyball do you jump off of one leg? I'm a little confused by
>this question.
>
playing basketball (i.e. doing layups) for a large portion of my life. Most
people I know who have played predominately volleyball have difficulty jumping
off one foot. As an example: a) off 2 feet [with an approach] I can easily
grab a regulation basketball rim with one hand (and occaisionally dunk a vball)
b) off 1 foot [with an approach] I can reach high enough to hold a vball above
the hoop; and do other dunks (not bad for a 6'2" polish guy, eh).
The only time this would come into play (in my experience) is when you run a
slide. I haven't seen a slide run in a while, and for those of you who don't
know what it is: picture a back 31 set (i.e. back shoot, or whatever you want to
call it) but the middle hitter instead of running sideways-then-forward runs
forward-then-sideways with the set. Off one leg most middles can get enough
altitude to hit over any block.
One word of warning: I have jumpin-off-one-leg (i.e. dunking) to thank for
most of my knee problems. When jumping off one foot, your body rotates around
your placement foot, and the knee undergoes a lot of torsion. Ouch.
Joanna Lee
>In article <2j8js9$s...@nic.umass.edu> mru...@twain.ucs.umass.edu (Marc A. Runkel) writes:
>>Stanley Chang (aj...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
>>
>>
>>: Good question!!
>>: I've been wondering the same too!!
>>: Any help???
>>: Personally, I am abou the same in both conditions.
>>: --
>>
>>Who jumps higher off one leg than two? Not I. Besides, in what part
>>of volleyball do you jump off of one leg? I'm a little confused by
>>this question.
>>
> I, personally, get more vert. off one leg. I think this probably comes from
>playing basketball (i.e. doing layups) for a large portion of my life. Most
>people I know who have played predominately volleyball have difficulty jumping
>off one foot. As an example: a) off 2 feet [with an approach] I can easily
>grab a regulation basketball rim with one hand (and occaisionally
I think it's fairly obvious that most people have a higher vertical
jumping off one leg instead of two because of the fact that high
jumpers only jump off one leg. They do this because it raises their
torso higher off the ground than does a two foot take-off.
The reason why volleyball players do a two foot take-off because it
allows for better balance in the air to adjust to sets for hits, or to
adjust for blocking. As well, by jumping off with two feet when spike
approaching, one transfers the power from going forward, upwards,
thereby getting more power to hit with. Yes, you reach higher when
jumping off one foot, but can you get as much power from your hips?
Jim Beers
I think it's fairly obvious that most people have a higher vertical
jumping off one leg instead of two because of the fact that high
jumpers only jump off one leg. They do this because it raises their
torso higher off the ground than does a two foot take-off.
The reason why volleyball players do a two foot take-off because it
allows for better balance in the air to adjust to sets for hits, or to
adjust for blocking. As well, by jumping off with two feet when spike
approaching, one transfers the power from going forward, upwards,
thereby getting more power to hit with. Yes, you reach higher when
jumping off one foot, but can you get as much power from your hips?
How to jump? I read some stuff on this subject here, but I cannot find it
now and I cannot find it in the FAQ.
Can somebody help me out? My questions are, how should I jump when I hit?
And why? Most right handed hitter plant with there right foot and then
left foot to hit. Some do it the opposite,
Did anyone save that discussion?
Thanks,
Jim
Han Hung
: I think it's fairly obvious that most people have a higher vertical
: jumping off one leg instead of two because of the fact that high
: jumpers only jump off one leg. They do this because it raises their
: torso higher off the ground than does a two foot take-off.
This has a lot to do with center of gravity and inertia. As a person
takes off with one foot the other leg is bent. This raises the center of
gravity in the person. This is also more efficient in translating forward
motion to vertical motion. As a person goes upward, the bent leg slowly
straightens out. This serves a double purpose of increasing "hang time"
and increasing their vertical. But as some people have pointed out, jumping
off one foot also has the unwanted forward motion for volleyball.
(see below)
: The reason why volleyball players do a two foot take-off because it
: allows for better balance in the air to adjust to sets for hits, or to
: adjust for blocking. As well, by jumping off with two feet when spike
: approaching, one transfers the power from going forward, upwards,
: thereby getting more power to hit with. Yes, you reach higher when
: jumping off one foot, but can you get as much power from your hips?
: How to jump? I read some stuff on this subject here, but I cannot find it
: now and I cannot find it in the FAQ.
: Can somebody help me out? My questions are, how should I jump when I hit?
: And why? Most right handed hitter plant with there right foot and then
: left foot to hit. Some do it the opposite,
That's funny. All throughout my vball career (high school and college),
I have been taught as a right hander to plant my left and bring my right
leg together with the left and jump. Hmmmmmm.
The footstep goes as follows:
Start from the net and take three big steps towards the attack line. This
should be the right place for anyone to start their approach. From this
position, the three step approach goes as follows:
1) start with both feet together;
2) step with left foot (small step)
3) step with right foot (bigger than the first)
4) step with left foot (very big), and start compression of legs
5) bring right foot together with left and swing both arms back
6) uncompress legs and setup arms for spike.
The step pattern serves to build momentum as you read the set. These are
the basic step patterns. As to when to start your approach relative to
the set, for a high outside, the approach begins with the ball reaches its
apex. For a low two ball, the approach begins once the setter touches the
ball. The one ball is more difficult. But basically, when the setter
touches the ball, you want to be in the motion of compressing your legs
for the jump. The angle of approach depends a lot on the set too, but
typically is between 20-30 degrees where 0 is facing the net.
As your skills improve, you might want to start a little further back and
use a running approach. A running approach only works if you have a good
and consistent setter. Also to try to increase "hang time", try to bring
your heels up as you feel yourself reaching the top of your jump.
Enjoy.
: Did anyone save that discussion?
: Thanks,
: Jim
Han
--
The opinions expressed are my own and do not reflect those of my employer.
+-----------------------------------+------------------------------------+
| Han Hung | The Wharton School of |
| Internet: hu...@wharton.upenn.edu | The University of Pennsylvania |
| Office #: (215)-573-5113 | Philadelphia, PA |
+-----------------------------------+------------------------------------+
Dave Taylor
>misunderstanding what you are doing.. In a layup, you jump with both
>legs, first the front leg and then the second...
No, this is incorrect. When going for a layup, you are not jumping with
both legs. One leg (the first one up) swings. It does not *push* against
the ground as it is behind your body. It's comparable to using your arms
to increase your verticle. The momentum of the leg swings you upward.
Only the second leg actually pushes against the ground.
For the record, I've always been able to jump higher using one leg.
Dave
--
Dave Taylor UUCP: ...!{uunet,boulder}!stan!davet
Solbourne Computer, Inc. Domain: da...@solbourne.COM
J.X. Rodenberg
>I think it's fairly obvious that most people have a higher vertical
>jumping off one leg instead of two because of the fact that high
>jumpers only jump off one leg. They do this because it raises their
>torso higher off the ground than does a two foot take-off.
There is a major difference between jumping for high jumping and jumping
for volleyball: in high jumping you're trying to get the lowest part of
your body as high as possible, and in volleyball you're only concerned
about the highest part of your body (and keeping balance, of course).
So for high jumping, having one leg already swinging upward as you're
jumping off of the other leg will give you an advantage, but not
necessarily for volleyball.
Jens
Eric Wang
>All throughout my vball career (high school and college), I have been
>taught as a right hander to plant my left and bring my right leg
>together with the left and jump.
>2) step with left foot (small step)
>3) step with right foot (bigger than the first)
>4) step with left foot (very big), and start compression of legs
>5) bring right foot together with left and swing both arms back
>6) uncompress legs and setup arms for spike.
Note that Han uses "step" in the sense of "step forward with", not
"push backwards off of" (which is how I use it). Technically, Han
is describing a "goofy-footed" approach because the order of the
footsteps is inverted (pushing off of RLR instead of LRL), but its
overall effect is almost exactly like the "traditional" LRL approach
because the right foot slides up to just behind the left foot but
doesn't go forward beyond it, so the hitter jumps off of the same
left-foot-forward foundation as in the traditional approach. I've
seen one hitter here at UIUC who used exactly this footwork, and he
was a gun of substantial caliber, so it does work well if you do it
right.
In comparison, the "traditional" approach goes something like this.
Arm angles are relative to 0 degrees being arms hanging straight
down, -90 being horizontal backwards, +90 begin horizontal forwards.
1. Push off right foot. Swing arms slightly forward.
2. Push BIG off left foot. Swing arms straight back to -80 degrees
or so, winding your shoulders like clock springs.
3. In mid-air, begin to swing arms down and forward HARD.
4. Plant right heel, begin to absorb forward momentum with right
leg. Arms have swung to about -45 degrees.
5. Plant right toes. Arms have swung to around 0 degrees.
6. Plant left toes (only!) half a stride in front of right toes.
Arms have swung to about +30 degrees. Push down with legs.
Pull hips forwards.
7. When toes leave floor, arms should have ALREADY swung to +60
degrees, above and in front of your head. Cock hitting arm.
8. In mid-air, pull shoulders and legs back to curl body away from
net.
This approach results in the classic spiker's "drawn bow" aerial
pose, the one you've seen a hundred times (or a million times) on
magazine covers and ads, and frozen in memory in high-level indoor
(and beach) competition. IMHO, it's slightly superior at
transferring momentum upwards than the approach Han describes. In
both approaches, the first leg whose foot comes down is the
"stopper" leg; it pushes forwards and down, absorbing most of the
body's initial forward momentum, then pushes down to jump. The
second leg is the "jumper"; it can push more nearly straight down,
providing upwards thrust (because the stopper leg has already
absorbed most of the forward momentum). The "traditional"
right-left-jump approach steps *forward* from the stopper leg onto
the jumper leg, so the center of gravity moves through a smooth
curve from forwards to upwards. In contrast, the left-right-jump
approach leaves the jumper leg *behind* the stopper leg. Then the
stopper leg must spend more of its thrust in stopping the body so
that the jumper leg can get its full push against the ground. Or if
the body keeps moving forwards over the stopper leg, the jumper
leg must perforce be more fully extended just to reach the ground
behind the jumper leg, and so can't contribute its full push. I
don't know exactly what you'd call this approach; the feet *are*
reversed, but the body position in the air is the same as in the
traditional approach. Maybe "rocking-horse", to reflect the fact
that the stopper leg has to rock the body backwards (or, at least,
less forward-ly than usual) to set up the jumper leg.
Based on this gibberish, I predict that the "rocking-horse" approach
would be better for jumping straight up w/o drifting forwards, but
at the expense of putting more stress on the stopper leg, especially
its knee. Conversely, this approach would be worse if you *want* to
broad-jump forwards, especially from the back row. Overall, it
would tend to reduce the jumper's vertical by a small amount
compared to the traditional approach because more of the stopper
leg's thrust is being expended forwards instead of downwards.
But as I wrote earlier, we had one big hitter who used this approach
very well. (Just that one, though, out of a couple hundred I've
seen since then.) Unless you've got a few months of spare time to
spend retraining your approach, just use whichever you're
comfortable with now. (Retraining your approach is NOT easy.)
Eric Wang
wa...@sml0.ge.uiuc.edu
Han Hung
: hu...@ticker.wharton.upenn.edu (Han Hung) writes:
: >All throughout my vball career (high school and college), I have been
: >taught as a right hander to plant my left and bring my right leg
: >together with the left and jump.
: >2) step with left foot (small step)
: >3) step with right foot (bigger than the first)
: >4) step with left foot (very big), and start compression of legs
: >5) bring right foot together with left and swing both arms back
: >6) uncompress legs and setup arms for spike.
I thought I described the LRL approach?
: [stuff deleted]
: In comparison, the "traditional" approach goes something like this.
: Arm angles are relative to 0 degrees being arms hanging straight
: down, -90 being horizontal backwards, +90 begin horizontal forwards.
: 1. Push off right foot. Swing arms slightly forward.
: 2. Push BIG off left foot. Swing arms straight back to -80 degrees
: or so, winding your shoulders like clock springs.
: 3. In mid-air, begin to swing arms down and forward HARD.
: 4. Plant right heel, begin to absorb forward momentum with right
: leg. Arms have swung to about -45 degrees.
: 5. Plant right toes. Arms have swung to around 0 degrees.
: 6. Plant left toes (only!) half a stride in front of right toes.
: Arms have swung to about +30 degrees. Push down with legs.
: Pull hips forwards.
: 7. When toes leave floor, arms should have ALREADY swung to +60
: degrees, above and in front of your head. Cock hitting arm.
: 8. In mid-air, pull shoulders and legs back to curl body away from
: net.
: [more stuff deleted]
I see, this is the two step approach is it? Anyway, just a little
background, my high school coach was on the Philippine national team and
my College coach was a US Junior Olympic national coach. No flames
intended Eric, and thanks for your compliments on my middle blocking
footwork. I saved your article on MB technique because I thought that
that was the best description on how to do middle blocking. I'll pass that
along to my USBVA team.
That's funny, I have seen a lot of volleyball players and almost always,
if I do get a chance to observe their approaches, they take a three step
approach leading off with their left foot. I'll try to be more observant
next time I watch a volleyball match.
Mike Schneider
: Can somebody help me out? My questions are, how should I jump when I hit?
: And why? Most right handed hitter plant with there right foot and then
: left foot to hit. Some do it the opposite,
Han Hung (hu...@wharton.upenn.edu) replied:
>> That's funny. All throughout my vball career (high school and college),
>> I have been taught as a right hander to plant my left and bring my right
>> leg together with the left and jump. Hmmmmmm.
>>
>> The footstep goes as follows:
>>
>> Start from the net and take three big steps towards the attack line. This
>> should be the right place for anyone to start their approach. From this
>> position, the three step approach goes as follows:
>>
>> 1) start with both feet together;
>> 2) step with left foot (small step)
>> 3) step with right foot (bigger than the first)
>> 4) step with left foot (very big), and start compression of legs
>> 5) bring right foot together with left and swing both arms back
>> 6) uncompress legs and setup arms for spike.
This approach is known as "goofy-footed" if it is an approach for a
right-handed hitter. It is a great description of an approach for a
left-hander though.
If you are a right-handed hitter, then change all the lefts with rights
and all the rights with lefts in the above steps 1-6.
Of course, if you are a totally awesome but goofy-footed hitter,
don't change your approach. Why fix it if it ain't broke? But if you
are just learning, try to stick with the proper approach.
--
=== Mike Schneider **** sch...@tellabs.com === "This is not music,
=== 532 Software Development Team === this is a trip." - Prince
=== Digital Systems Division ===
=== Tellabs Operations, Inc. === #include <std/disclaimer.h>
Eric Wang
>I see, this is the two step approach is it? ...
>That's funny, I have seen a lot of volleyball players and almost
>always, if I do get a chance to observe their approaches, they take a
>three step approach leading off with their left foot.
Well, my usage of terms such as "traditional", "goofy-foot", and
"rocking-horse" is based only on the order and orientation of the
very last two steps that forms the hitter's jumping platform, not on
the total number of steps in the approach. The number of steps in
each approach can be adjusted in mid-rally (and often is), depending
on how far the hitter has to go to chase the set. But for the vast
majority of hitters, those last two steps for the take-off platform
is a deeply-ingrained habit, and they couldn't reverse the foot
sequence or form the mirror-image platform during play, even if the
match depended on it. The jumping platform footwork is very
difficult to change, even through training, and in fact there is no
guaranteed method through which coaches can change somebody's
platform. So that's what I look at to classify an approach.
Eric Wang
wa...@sml0.ge.uiuc.edu
Urs Bertschinger
|> Who jumps higher off one leg than two? Not I.
High jumpers jump off one leg. Since the object of the sport is to jump as
high as possible, I have to assume high jumpers are able to jump higher off
one foot. Another sport in which participants attempt to jump as high as
they can by jumping off one leg is team handball, with which few Americans,
but most Europeans should be familiar.
|> Besides, in what part
|> of volleyball do you jump off of one leg? I'm a little confused by
|> this question.
From my observations, hitters usually execute back-slides by jumping off one
foot.
--
u...@objy.com
Terry Quinn
> In article <2j8js9$s...@nic.umass.edu>, mru...@twain.ucs.umass.edu (Marc A. Runkel) writes:
> |> Who jumps higher off one leg than two? Not I.
>
> High jumpers jump off one leg. Since the object of the sport is to jump as
> high as possible, I have to assume high jumpers are able to jump higher off
> one foot. Another sport in which participants attempt to jump as high as
> they can by jumping off one leg is team handball, with which few Americans,
> but most Europeans should be familiar.
and have some ideas to share.
I was watching the Olympic figure skaters in slo-mo, and noted
that many of them, in addition to vaulting over the toe of one of
their skates on liftoff to translate horizontal speed to vertical
momentum, would also swing a free leg up just prior to the final
spring of the still planted leg. It is apparent they are doing
this just as a volleyball hitter swings his arm up to achieve
upward momentum of some of his body mass prior to liftoff.
Two weeks ago, the young female Japanese pro skater (I believe her
last name is Ito, but I'm not sure), did an amazing triple jump
that achieved astounding height. The announcers were blown away
by it. When I reviewed it in slow motion, I could see that she
used almost perfect arm motion. She back swung slightly, then
swung forward rapidly and then suddenly stopped her arms just
after liftoff at about 45 degrees (between level and pointed
down). In an old Sports Illustrated article on jumping, they
noted that the best basketball jumpers (eg., Spud Webb at that
time), use a similar technique, which is even more effective
because they are holding the added mass of the ball.
Both of these techniques develop kinetic energy of body mass in an
upward direction that will then convert to additional height as
the velocity of the body part drops to zero.
Getting back to the original argument, I can see how one could use
different muscle groups to jump higher with one leg than two. The
jumper (be it basketball, high jump, or skating) is probably using
muscle groups that swing and lift the free leg to impart upward
momemtum as stored kinetic energy (1/2mv**2) prior to liftoff,
when the other leg is still grounded.
Done properly, that may be more effective in imparting lift than
the final liftoff jump with the still planted leg. The swinging
leg, if swinging fast enough, probably has enough kinetic energy
due to velocity from the swing and lift action to raise more than
it's own weight when that energy is converted to an mgh term. And
legs are a significant part of our body weight (I learned that
when I used to work in a hospital and carried amputated legs from
surgery to the morgue).
Basketball players, high jumpers, and skaters have the luxury of
being able to continue traveling forward during the jump, which
volleyball hitters obviously cannot do. But it does make me
wonder whether a liftoff technique could be developed for
volleyball that involves a free leg swing.
The plant leg would have to bring the body mass to more of a stop,
which means either more stress there, or a slower approach. But
once the liftoff occurs, the swinging leg could be forced back
down to parallel with the liftoff leg, which would further raise
the torso in reaction to the thrusting down of the swinging leg
(which is similar to the benefit that comes from dropping the non-
hitting arm before you hit).
Any opinions? Maybe tradition is keeping us from inventing the
best method. That has happened before. (Fosburry (sp?) flop).
--
Terry Quinn
Germantown Hills, IL
tqu...@heartland.bradley.edu
Wayne Hathaway
ago there was a tumbler who could clear a high jump bar at the
end of a tumbling run that was considerably above the current
high jump world record. Unfortunately, the tumbler used a TWO
foot take-off and high jumping rules REQUIRE only one. The
tumbler tried for a while to generate the required height off of
a single leg but couldn't do it.
Wayne Hathaway Internet: wa...@auspex.com
Auspex Systems Phone: 408-986-2044
5200 Great America Parkway FAX: 408-986-2020
Santa Clara, CA 95054
Brendan Mahony
You should definitely be able to jump higher off one leg.
You may note that there are not too many two-footed takeoffs in high
jump competition. The reason for the greater lift is the drive of the
non-takeoff foot. You should concentrate on driving it up into you ribcage
on take-off and then kicking down with it to give some hang.
Unfortunately it is also very difficult not to jump farther on one leg
as well so it is not a good idea in most VB situations. :-(
Eric Wang
>High jumpers jump off one leg. Since the object of the sport is to
>jump as high as possible, I have to assume high jumpers are able to
>jump higher off one foot.
High jumpers are required by the rules of their sport to jump off
one leg, so the point is moot.
>Another sport in which participants attempt to jump as high as they can
>by jumping off one leg is team handball, with which few Americans, but
>most Europeans should be familiar.
>
>From my observations, hitters usually execute back-slides by jumping
>off one foot.
The term "slide" is overloaded, with two different meanings. In the
women's game, the "back slide", or "step-out", is a one-foot
take-off with hips and shoulders at an angle to the net. In the
men's game, "slide" is a generic term used for horizontal
broad-jumping, where a hitter plants two feet roughly horizontally
and jumps sideways to the left or right to drift parallel to the net
away from the blockers. The "step-out" isn't as common in the men's
game, probably because they don't think they need it.
Team handball is conducive to the step-out jump because the
attackers can run tangentially around the arc, similar to the way a
step-out hitter runs parallel to the net. The two-foot plant might
be the best compromise to maximize vertical reach while minimizing
forward drift.
Eric Wang
wa...@sml0.ge.uiuc.edu
Eric Wang
>I was watching the Olympic figure skaters in slo-mo, and noted
>that many of them, in addition to vaulting over the toe of one of
>their skates on liftoff to translate horizontal speed to vertical
>momentum, would also swing a free leg up just prior to the final
>spring of the still planted leg. It is apparent they are doing
>this just as a volleyball hitter swings his arm up to achieve
>upward momentum of some of his body mass prior to liftoff.
From empirical evidence, a lutz begins with the plant leg extended
behind, then brought forward and down and driven toe-first into the
ice while jumping off both feet. I think a toe loop starts with the
plant leg down and the other leg whipping around. I haven't figured
out the salchow. These jumps take off from and land on the same
leg, usually the right leg (so skaters circulate counterclockwise
around the rink during their jumps). The axel is unique in that the
skater faces forwards and jumps off the other leg, the non-landing
one; this is what forces the extra half-revolution. The axel is
pretty much the same as the one-foot take-off seen in basketball,
back slides, high jumping, etc. You need some big air to do a
triple axel.
Consider, though, that skating jumps need to generate angular
momentum for the spin, so the free leg isn't just swinging up, it's
swinging around, too.
>Two weeks ago, the young female Japanese pro skater [Midori Ito], did
>an amazing triple jump that achieved astounding height. The announcers
>were blown away by it. When I reviewed it in slow motion, I could see
>that she used almost perfect arm motion. She back swung slightly, then
>swung forward rapidly and then suddenly stopped her arms just after
>liftoff at about 45 degrees (between level and pointed down).
Midori Ito is a phenomenal jumper. She surprised the field by
winning gold at Calgary, then came up with her own definition of the
term "gut check" to take the silver medal at Albertville. After a
week of terrible, terrible practices in which she couldn't find her
rhythm and fell on most of her trademark triple axel attempts, she
entered the long program in 4th place, fell on her opening triple
axel attempt, went through the motions for another four minutes,
then on depleted legs, with all of the pressure of being the
favorite weighing down on her head and the dread that she'd lost her
knack, she decided on the spot to upgrade her very last jump to
another triple axel, nailed it like a textbook, the joy on her face
was like the sun coming out from behind the clouds, and she *danced*
through the end of her routine. That one triple axel, that was the
silver medal jump, and to me the enduring image of Albertville. Ito
was the first woman to land a triple axel in international
competition, and hers is the only triple axel ever landed by a woman
in the Olympics. Harding and Bonaly will probably join her in this
regard by the end of the week, but Ito made them believe it was
possible.
My informal list of complex athletic actions performed in zero-g now
includes the volleyball spike, ice skating jumps, gymnastics
tumbling runs and dismounts, diving, and aerials freestyle skiing.
Any others?
Eric Wang
wa...@sml0.ge.uiuc.edu
J. Victor Kim
: tqu...@heartland.bradley.edu (Terry Quinn) writes:
[observations on figure skating jumping]
Regarding the figure skating jumps..
Actually, the jumper uses the legs to give the vertical height,
and the augular rotation is given by the arms. In all the "pick"
jumps, the pick is used to momentarily stop the backward motion
so as to give the non-picking leg to push off the ice and thus
jump up. The arms are then moved inward to spin the body.
The legs may contribute to the angular momentum only by
bringing themselves closer to the body.
-victor-
Anthony Chan
: I'm sorry, but all this talk is ridiculous. Who should you watch to find
: out how to jump high? Not someone who jumps up and plans to land on their
: back. You watch Karch Kiraly. You watch Steve Timmons. You watch
: Charles Barkley dunking. If you've ever seen slow motion dunks (since it
: seems the regular speed is too fast for some), you will notice that almost
: everyone, even Larry Johnson loves to pull up the trailing foot, plant,
: and take off of both feet. Why? So that he can impress everyone by
: not jumping as high as he could had he taken off with just one leg?
: Have you ever seen MJ with one leg pulled, as hard as he can, up into his
: chest?
And yet, how many people do you know that can slam-dunk
off two legs and not one? Just about anyone who is able
to slam-dunk finds it much easier to slam off one leg
than using both.
The reason why, I think, that they (NBA players) sometimes
slam off both legs is that you decrease horizontal momentum
in doing so, and therefore are better able to display the
verticality of the jump. Also, although Larry Johnson may
slam-dunk occasionally using both legs, that, in fact, he,
more times than not, will usually slam off one leg. It
is not necessarily that you get higher, but that you showcase
the verticality of the jump better, and, also, is just another
variation of the slam-dunk: two legs or one, it's just
another way to slam.
-Anthony
P-fost
many things to consider about jumping off one foot or two. In my
experience as a high jumper, when you approach the mats, you have a lot of
speed. I feel this is best for jumping off of one foot. In addition, you
use the driving force of your weak knee coming up, and your arms swinging
from behind you to above your head.
In basketball, I use a two footed takeoff when I am at a
standstill or am not moving very fast (if I'm moving fast and try a two
footed takeoff, I usually attempt a face plant). In comparison. I use a
single footed takeoff on a layup or similar speed movement.
I'm 6' 1 1/2" tall, I have jumped 6'6" in high jump (coach thinks
I can go 6' 10") and can do a lot of different dunks. (and I'm white!!)
James Benjamin St.John
Think a second! There is NO evidence that you can jump higher off
of one leg. Let's just talk about the kind of jumping that you want
to do. Jump up, facing forward, no rotation.
[snip]
I'm sorry folks, but this is stupid. Your legs are made to push. You
will get more velocity pushing down with both legs than trying to pull
one of them up. The slide in volleyball is not made for height. It
is made for movement to fool blockers, and with the way it is run (hit
back into the court) taking off one foot, like a layup, allows you to
more easily rotate.
Well sorry to add more to this apparently uninteresting debate,
but I can tell you that personally, I can jump about five inches
higher using a one-footed jump with approach, vs a two-footed
jump with approach.
Without an approach, I can jump higher with two feet (obviously,
I think, the image of standing still and trying to jump off
of one foot seems rather ludicrous).
The issue really does seem to be the translation of forward
momentum into upward energy. When I try and take of on two feet
I really feel that I lose a fair bit of energy.
Similarly, I think a lot of the dunks you're talking about are
being done from relatively stationary positions, where it makes
sense to use two feet.
Summary: one foot makes the transfer of horizontal to vertical
momentum easier, and more than makes up for the loss of not having
another foot pushing.
Caveat: it may just be that my two foot approach is not as smooth
and as practiced as my one-footed jump. Maybe with more practice
I'll be able to convert better.
Later,
Ben
Link Verstegen
> People, people, people! What the **** are you all talking about?
> Think a second! There is NO evidence that you can jump higher off
> of one leg. Let's just talk about the kind of jumping that you want
> to do. Jump up, facing forward, no rotation.
>
> [snip]
>
> I'm sorry folks, but this is stupid. Your legs are made to push. You
> will get more velocity pushing down with both legs than trying to pull
> one of them up. The slide in volleyball is not made for height. It
> is made for movement to fool blockers, and with the way it is run (hit
> back into the court) taking off one foot, like a layup, allows you to
> more easily rotate.
>
>
> Well sorry to add more to this apparently uninteresting debate,
> but I can tell you that personally, I can jump about five inches
> higher using a one-footed jump with approach, vs a two-footed
> jump with approach.
>
[more snip]
> Later,
> Ben
As a former NCAA high jumper (& high school basketball player) I believe I can
provide some insight to why one foot is used for the takeoff. The knee of the
leading leg is driven up and blocked slightly above above the waist to translate
forward momemtum into vertical momemtum. This blocking action, along with a
similiar blocking action with the arm(s) can actually provide up to 50% of the
total vertical height for the high jumper/bball player. Try it; lock the trailing
leg and drive the leading leg & arms up as hard as possible. You may be surprised
at the height derived w/o using any direct muscular push from the trailing leg.
We actually used this exercise to improve control over our auxiallary actions
while jumping.
sorry to diverge so much from the vball discussion...
linkv
Dave Taylor
>one foot. We are NOT trying to do pirouettes nor reverse somersalt back
>flips. We ARE trying to get the most height with both our arms extended
>up at some point se we can crush a ball straight down over a blocker
>trying to jump off one leg.
No, this is definitely NOT a silly or stupid discussion. Of course you
must jump off both legs when you play vball. That's only because of the
position you need to be in when hitting. From a STANDING position, I'm
sure everyone would agree that two legs pushing gives you more height.
However most people hit while utilizing a RUNNING start. That's what
the difference is here.
>I'm sorry folks, but this is stupid. Your legs are made to push. You
>will get more velocity pushing down with both legs than trying to pull
>one of them up.
Your example is a pretty stupid one, Van. When you dunk a basketball
you are not "pulling" one of your legs up, you are SWINGING it up, giving
you more upward momentum. Why do you think you swing your arms up when
you hit? MORE UPWARD MOMENTUM! I know a lot of people that can dunk a
basketball jumping off of one leg. Most of those people cannot dunk it
jumping off of both legs.
>What a silly discussion.
Then why are you reading it?
_Floor_
Eric Wang <wa...@sml0.ge.uiuc.edu> wrote:
] My informal list of complex athletic actions performed in zero-g now
] includes the volleyball spike, ice skating jumps, gymnastics
] tumbling runs and dismounts, diving, and aerials freestyle skiing.
] Any others?
These activities may be performed off of the ground, but they most
certainly are not performed in zero-g! Free fall isn't even zero-g.
If you're inside a C130 which is doing a parabolic dive, you are in
zero-g relative to the plane and what's inside. But there's a downward
acceleration of one g with respect to the environment in every single
one of the activities you listed above. So if you're listing complex
athletic actions performed off the ground (in the air), your list is
valid. Might I add jumping in the air while patting your head and
rubbing your belly and humming CBS's Olympic theme music?
_____ "But you can't really call that a dance. It's a walk." - Tony Banks
/ ___\ ___ __ ___ ___ _____________ ge...@cs.wustl.edu
| / __ / _ \ | / \ / _ \ | physics | ge...@camps.phy.vanderbilt.edu
| \_\ \ | __/ | /\ | | __/ |racquetball| squ...@mitlns.mit.edu
\_____/ \___/ |_| |_| \___/ | volleyball| squ...@mit.edu
Gene Van Buren, Kzoo Crew(Floor), Washington U. in St. Louis, and MIT(Squonk)
Arne Bjerge,o92a
Jumping off on one foot can be very effective in volleyball.
The captain on my team varies on jumping off on one and two feet.
He is one of our strongest attackers. He has got the one-foot-jump
from many years of playing handball.
One advantage that we have in him, is that we can play a lot of
quick attacks behind the setter (me). He often tricks the blockers
by running towards me, and suddenly turn. He runs almost parallell
with the net, and hits the ball almost out by the antenna. These
movements from him tear the opponents block apart. It's very seldom
that they get a good, tight, two-man-block against him. Their blockers
must move towards the middle of the net.
A small try on illustrating how he sometimes does this:
|___________________________________|
| X |
| | \-------->o |
| | \ |
| Z Y |
X: The setter. Y: My captain Z:Middle hitter.
o: The point were he jumps.
(Difficult to draw with ASCII-signs.)
He is also very effective on our three-meter-attacks, because he has
got a lot of speed towards the net. I usually set the ball 1,5 - 2
meters from the net. These attacks are often more successful than
attacks from front-row-players.
There is one drawback with him: if the set is short, he can't stop
his movement, and can't reach the ball. He would reach it if he had
jumped on two feet. So: rather a too long set, than a too short set.
There are not many VB-players that uses this one-foot-jump, but those
who can use both one and two feet when jumping, have got a big
advantage!
***************************************************************
* Arne Bjerge * Volleyball *
* Vestbyen Racers * er *
* Trondheim, Norway * drittgoey!! *
* E-mail: ar...@edb.tih.no * Drikk stygg sterk kaill karsk! *
***************************************************************
Jan Zoellner
sch...@tellabs.com (Mike Schneider) writes:
|>>> 1) start with both feet together;
|>>> 2) step with left foot (small step)
|>>> 3) step with right foot (bigger than the first)
|>>> 4) step with left foot (very big), and start compression of legs
|>>> 5) bring right foot together with left and swing both arms back
|>>> 6) uncompress legs and setup arms for spike.
|>
|>This approach is known as "goofy-footed" if it is an approach for a
|>right-handed hitter. It is a great description of an approach for a
|>left-hander though.
|>
|>If you are a right-handed hitter, then change all the lefts with rights
|>and all the rights with lefts in the above steps 1-6.
|>
|>Of course, if you are a totally awesome but goofy-footed hitter,
|>don't change your approach. Why fix it if it ain't broke? But if you
|>are just learning, try to stick with the proper approach.
|>--
|>=== Mike Schneider **** sch...@tellabs.com === "This is not music,
|>=== 532 Software Development Team === this is a trip." - Prince
|>=== Digital Systems Division ===
|>=== Tellabs Operations, Inc. === #include <std/disclaimer.h>
|>
sion, moving the right leg to the left to gain power. Then I jump off, mainly
with the LEFT foot. (The right leg acts more like a "swinger" ;-)) Would I get
more height if I retrain my approach? I tried it, but the "normal" approach
really confuses me. Would it be worth the hassle to try to change it?
Greetings
IAN
Arne Bjerge,o92a
>What's going on here? I just jump that way. Last step with left, leg compres-
>sion, moving the right leg to the left to gain power. Then I jump off, mainly
>with the LEFT foot. (The right leg acts more like a "swinger" ;-)) Would I get
>more height if I retrain my approach? I tried it, but the "normal" approach
>really confuses me. Would it be worth the hassle to try to change it?
>
>Greetings
>IAN
I don't think you should throw that one-foot-jump away, but you should train on
the "normal" approach as well. It can be very useful to be able to do both
approaches. For right-handers it is easier to do the two-foot-jump when you are
in front of the setter(position 4), and easy with one-foot-jump in position 2.
If a right-hander uses the one-foot-jump in position 4, he would probably lose
strength. I have not yet seen a left-hander use the one-foot-jump in position 4.
I think this would be very confusing for the opponents block-players.
Why do you all scream for "more height, more height?!!" When you have reached
a certain level of how high up you can reach the ball, about 3 meters or so,
it would probably be better for you to run quicker attacks.
Arne Bjerge,
Trondheim, Norway
Norbert Heindl
>In article <2ksus9$3...@irz404.inf.tu-dresden.de>, j...@irz.inf.tu-dresden.de (Jan Zoellner) writes:
>>What's going on here? I just jump that way. Last step with left, leg compres-
>>sion, moving the right leg to the left to gain power. Then I jump off, mainly
>>with the LEFT foot. (The right leg acts more like a "swinger" ;-)) Would I get
>>more height if I retrain my approach? I tried it, but the "normal" approach
>>really confuses me. Would it be worth the hassle to try to change it?
>>
>>Greetings
>>IAN
I tried a similar approach last night. I planted with the LEFT foot and
started leg compression as I brought the RIGHT foot together with the LEFT.
Then I jumped mainly pushing with the LEFT foot and leg. I was able to get
more height and get higher quicker, even though it did feel awkward. I am
right-handed but my left leg is stronger than my right. So, I guess one
should use an approach that uses his/her strongest leg to push off with. Or,
build up the strength of the leg you would like to push off with.
>I don't think you should throw that one-foot-jump away, but you should train on
>the "normal" approach as well. It can be very useful to be able to do both
>approaches. For right-handers it is easier to do the two-foot-jump when you are
>in front of the setter(position 4), and easy with one-foot-jump in position 2.
>If a right-hander uses the one-foot-jump in position 4, he would probably lose
>strength. I have not yet seen a left-hander use the one-foot-jump in position 4.
>I think this would be very confusing for the opponents block-players.
>Why do you all scream for "more height, more height?!!" When you have reached
>a certain level of how high up you can reach the ball, about 3 meters or so,
>it would probably be better for you to run quicker attacks.
This is probably true for people that are 6'+, but for the shorter
people(me being 5'9") trying to get more height is a big deal. I have
tendency to hit lots of balls into the top of the net, that with more height,
might be good hits.
>Arne Bjerge,
>Trondheim, Norway
Mike Mulvaney
da...@solbourne.com writes:
>Your example is a pretty stupid one, Van. When you dunk a basketball
>you are not "pulling" one of your legs up, you are SWINGING it up, giving
>you more upward momentum. Why do you think you swing your arms up when
>you hit? MORE UPWARD MOMENTUM! I know a lot of people that can dunk a
>basketball jumping off of one leg. Most of those people cannot dunk it
>jumping off of both legs.
>
If that were true, try swinging up ALL of your appendages. See if you
can dunk that way. You must push down; momentum is not a force.
Anyone who knows how to jump off of two legs can jump higher than using
one. look at Shaq in the Blue Chips commercial. He dunks off of both
feet.
If you want to hit a slide, jump off of one foot. If you ever do it any
other time, you are not reaching your full potential. When was the last
time you saw Karch sky off of one leg? (except on maybe a broken play)
Or Whitmarsh or Dodd, former basketball players?
Thierry G. Thelliez
Normal hit -> 2 legs
Hit a Slide -> 1 leg
However, I have an other suggestion to jump higher:
use legs (1 or 2 :) AND feet
Explanation:
When I jump I have found that I can decompose my jump into 2 phases:
1- The first phase of my jump use my quadriceps.
2- The second phase use the extension of my feet (just before leaving
the ground when my legs are already straight).
I have found that I can easily gain several centimeters
if I insist on this second phase.
Advantage: head above the net...
Drawback: more stress on the Achilles' tendon...
(my feet size: 13)
Thierry
t...@lanl.gov
Doyen T. Klein
In respect to jumping high I have found the most overlooked aspect to
be arm swing and upper body motion. At the lowest and most crouched
position, unweight you legs by getting your upper body in motion first.
This added several inches to my jump, but be careful of lower back strain.
Lolita
>ro...@violet.ccit.arizona.edu posits:
>|> One leg gives you so much jumping power. Two legs (assuming they have
>|> the same strength) gives you twice as much power to jump, period.
>I posted this point some months ago, but since this thread won't die, here
>it is again: If you're so certain that one can jump higher off two feet (which
>appears to be your point), how do you explain the fact that high jumpers, whose
>sole goal in life is to jump as high as possible, jump off one foot? I have a
>little trouble believing that the world of high jumping just hasn't yet
>discovered your postulate.
High jumpers use an approach which allow them to elevate their body over a
pole which is set at a certain height (if I am thinking the same high jump
event that you are. Their bodies are nearly horizontal as they pass this
pole. It is a different type of jumping than spiking or block jumping.
It's part leverage as one leg swings up while the other leg drives
off the ground. High jumpers do not need to elevate their upper torso as
high as long as their body can pass over the bar. If they were to stay
vertical during their one-legged leap, they would not jump as high as
someone using two legs. Just thought I'd relay this observation.
Bryan
--
"He who stops being better, stops being good."
-Oliver Cromwell
John Vergo
take off is because a two-legged take off is ILLEGAL! I have no idea why
the rule exits. Having participated in both sports, I can say with certainty
that you can carry a lot more speed into your jump using a one-legged take
off. This is especially true using the Fosbury flop. The same applies to
a lay-up in basketball.
It seems like this thread needs a good dose of empirical evidence. I suggest
the next time any of you interested parties are in a gym, actually try both
jumping techniques against a wall, and compare the results. Then everyone can
post them, and we should have an answer.
John
Nick Giannios
>High jumpers use an approach which allow them to elevate their body over a
>pole which is set at a certain height (if I am thinking the same high jump
>event that you are. Their bodies are nearly horizontal as they pass this
>pole. It is a different type of jumping than spiking or block jumping.
> It's part leverage as one leg swings up while the other leg drives
>off the ground. High jumpers do not need to elevate their upper torso as
>high as long as their body can pass over the bar. If they were to stay
>vertical during their one-legged leap, they would not jump as high as
>someone using two legs. Just thought I'd relay this observation.
I'm not sure that's accurate. A friend of mine was high jump champion and
record holder in Greece in the mid-80's with a record of 2.26 m (7-5) and
he told me once that he was never much of a 2-foot jumper. He said he
could always jump higher ie touch things like the headlights on top
of the finish line in the Piraeus stadium 1-footed. He said that he
could never jump as high on 2-feet. I guess that's why he was such a
useless basketball player for his size (6-4).
--
Nick Giannios | GS Warriors in '95, '96, '97, '98, '99 ...
Computer Science IV | Panathinaikos in '94 and forever
University Of Manitoba |--------------------------------------------
umgi...@cc.umanitoba.ca | Famous last words 'You can't shoot me punk'
Jim Beers
a lay-up in basketball.
Perhaps the lay-up in basketball is done that way because you are running at
high speed towards the net and you do not want to slow down to shoot the ball
because there is another guy right behind you trying to block it.
I often hit off of one foot in v-ball because I do not have time to plant
both feet and jump, get get stuck going a sort of a one footed hop instead.
J I M B O
: I posted this point some months ago, but since this thread won't die, here
: it is again: If you're so certain that one can jump higher off two feet (which
: appears to be your point), how do you explain the fact that high jumpers, whose
: sole goal in life is to jump as high as possible, jump off one foot? I have a
we define "jump" as vertical displacement of a point, like the center of
your body, your torso, let's say, then you can obviously see that when a
high jumper peaks on his jump he'd have to be pretty damn flexible to hit
a ball down on a court.
Yes, the debate is about getting more air off of one leg vs. two
legs. But really, this is still rec.volleyball and not alt.jumping, so
as long as you put a ball down every time, what does it matter how many
legs you use to jump?
p e a c e
j i m b o
S. Lee
: Also, I bet that some of the higher jumping volleyball players, those
: who are rumored to get their waste to the top of the net, could clear
: the net if they just pike and have some forward drift. They would
: easily clear the ~8' world record in high jump. I've also heard
: that Michael Jordan frequently bumped his head the basketball rim.
: I think he could easily clear 8'.
So what? Michael Jordan is 6'6", and a basketball rim is 10'. If he
hit his head, then that means he got up 42". Big whoop. Compare that
to a typical 6'6" high jumper like Patrick Sjoberg of Sweden who can
raise his 3' high centre of gravity to 8' = 60"!!! We're obviously
comparing apples to papayas in any attempt to relate high jumping and
JUMPING (as in the basketball/volleyball sense), so let's drop the
Jordan references...I am SO sick of hearing about him.
Hoping he actually gets to play major league game so he can be embarrassed...
-- Sam (Zeke for Short)
Jim Beers
As long as someone else choose to continue the thread,
I noticed this weekend, while watching somw of the way to much basketball
that was on, that most of the time, bb players jump off two feet. Almost
all dunks are off two feet. So since just high jumpers jump off one foot
because the rules require it, clearly we can end the discussion.
Although I found it an interesting discussion.
Dave Taylor
>you that this argument was previously knocked down.
What I want to know is who started this damn thread, anyway...
And why do I keep following it, and posting to it, and READING IT AND, AND...
AAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
Samuel Chon
players and try to imitate them( except for the lifts and stuff on sets
and hits). My friends at school can never jump higher than me off two
feet but off one foot they can reach much higher. It is something that
you have to get used to, it is like two foot take off, you didn't pick
that up that easy did you? Once you can get a good one foot take off
you could probably get some quicks and change directions in the the air
like that one chick on the Womens' usa volleyball team.( Weishof or
something like that) She does this thing from the strong side , she
jumps towards the line off one foot and then turns in the air and pounds
it hard cross court. It is one of the only one foot take off plays i
ahve seem on tv.
Sam
Evil Twin
> It started out with a simple question: since I jump
> higher off two feet than one, how can I improve my
> one footed jump? Well, the topic has changed quite
> a bit since then. And, anyway, no one ever answered
> my question.:)
Then let's just go with the simple answer. Practice, practice, practice.
And keep in mind that just because you may reach higher if you jump off of
one leg, it doesn't mean that your spike is going to be worth beans.
Tony -
--
Evil Twin - one_spike
the Man, the Myth, the Legend in His Own Mind - //~____/ ~\\
mul...@hornet.ag.uiuc.edu \\~ \ ~//
one_kill!
Mike Kwan
: |>Before you get defensive, did you see the 5 minute article on biomechanics
: |>of a volleyball spike jump during the 1988 Olympics. They took an Olympic
: |>team member, I think it was Angela Rock, and did the biomechanics of her
: |>approach and jump and TAUGHT HER TO JUMP MORE CORRECTLY and the result was
: |>4 MORE INCHES of vertical. This is from someone that was already an
: |>Olympic team starter. I think we can all learn to jump better and shouldn't
: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: Sure we can! Is there any material available?? I wasn't able to find such things
: yet :-(( I just retrained my approach and do have now a much better position to
: the ball, but my vert didn't increase by more than 1 inch, I think. Can someone
: give me a direction, where one can find effective hints (esp. in germany) on
: correct jumping?
Try finding material on Plyometrics training (sometimes called rebound
training). This area of training concentrates on contracting a muscle
that is in the process of stretching. This action is key to blocking
the horizontal momentum that you build with your approach, and
redirecting it vertically. Your quadraceps must block and then extend
effectively while they are in the process of stretching. And this block
and extension must be done QUICKLY...like on the order of .1 seconds.
If I remember right, this is the area of biomechanics that led to
Angela Rock's increase vertical. The increase was NOT JUST DUE TO
STRONGER EXTENSION, BUT DUE TO MORE EFFECTIVE BLOCKING.
This action is also extremely difficult to train since it defies static
jumping or weight lifting. Just the mechanics of contracting a muscle
that is stretching is hard to replicate, and then you throw in the
quick time factor of the action you are training for, and then on top
of it all you have to overload it to strengthen the action. All this
adds up to make the excersize difficult to design.
The two basic ways of this type of training are to jump (a pre-jump,
either from a standing still position, or from an approach),
and then when you land you jump again. This second jump will require
you to contract and then extend your quadraceps while they are
stretching from landing from the pre-jump. This type of excersize
replicates the mechanics (contracting a stretching muscle) and the
jumping action replicates the required time factor. If you do this
from progressively higher jumps, faster horizontal approaches, or
on only one leg at a time, you start to get the overloading.
The other basic way to do this training, and I don't recommend this,
is called "depth jumping." It is the same basic thing, except that the
pre-jump comes from jumping off of things. You start with small boxes
and progress to higher ones, all the time jumping upon landing. This
increases the overloading. Reports are that the old USSR and the Cuban
national volleyball teams use depth jumping as regular training. Al
Scates used it at UCLA for one year, got good results, but higher than
normal instances of knee injuries.
I'm not an Excersize Physiologist (but my wife is working on her Master's
degree in just that) so take this as only an overview. Research this
yourself and consult an expert before you start this sort of training
because it is prone to injury.
Good luck and be careful with your knees,
Mike Kwan
Head Coach, Boy's 16s
Dig To Win USVBA Jr. Olympic Volleyball Club
ps. Sound footwork in your approach will also help. If you are right
handed, a good BLOCK with your RIGHT HEEL on your next to last step will
do a world of good. If you do a lot of rebound training and yet your
footwork mechanics fail you, you won't get much out of it.
pps. For more information, try contacting your National Governing Body
for volleyball. In the US this is the USVBA. They have a lot of
information on training and training techniques and can point you to
some good resources.
Scott Bell
>|>Olympic team starter. I think we can all learn to jump better and shouldn't
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Sure we can! Is there any material available?? I wasn't able to find such things
sorry, forgot the name, but I'll get back to you when I look for it
tonight ) has a frame-by-frame drawing of approaching the net, the
actual swing, and the follow-thru. A great book.
Another decent book, even though it's geared towards strategy rather
tahn technique, IMHO, is Arnie Selengier's Power Volleyball.
SHWING!
Scott Bell
(206)834-8425
BTW, if anyone knows of League play anywhere in the Portland, OR or
Vancouver, Battleground, or Camas WA areas please give me a buzz!
Scott Bell
>The two basic ways of this type of training are to jump (a pre-jump,
>either from a standing still position, or from an approach),
>and then when you land you jump again. This second jump will require
>you to contract and then extend your quadraceps while they are
>stretching from landing from the pre-jump. This type of excersize
(sand court ) play. I would sometimes have ankle weights on or wear a
backpack w/ approx. 2-3 lbs. of sand, and then skip rope. If you time it
right you can go thru the full calve streatch mid-air and then quickly
bounce off when I contacted the ground.
Another good regime for those calves is the calve raise one day, with
running/playing outdoors/biking the next day, etc. Worked for me( I
think! :) ).
na...@sketchgrowl.com
> I've always been curious about this. Most people
> I know jump higher off one leg than two. In fact,
> they usually get much higher off one leg, around
> 3-5 inches. I, myself, am quite the opposite; I
> jump much higher off two legs than one. And it's
> not due to lack of practice, I used to do a million
> lay-ups in basketball practice in H.S.. Yet,
> I can jumper higher vertically, without running
> or anything, than a full sprinted one leg take-off.
> Maybe it's my form; maybe I'm not converting all
> my forward momentum to vertical momentum. Or, maybe,
> you use different muscles. I'm not sure either way.
> Oh well, I'd love to be able to jump higher off one
> leg, then, maybe, I could actually dunk one of these
> days.:)
>
> -Anthony
I'm sorry for bumping this old thread, found it while searching on Google and I really think I have something to add here.
Basic answer: Train your legs for explosive jumping. Note that explosive jumping, like what you need for dunking a basketball, is not the same as the jumping you’d do for skipping rope, for example.
When it comes to the actual training, there are myriad programs, systems and recommendations out there, so I’ll make my advice general and simple for you.
Practice jumping explosively. Play b-ball and jump for the rim. Box jumps. Hurdles.
Train your legs for explosion in the weight room, with lifts (squat, deadlift, calf raises, etc) that utilize heavy weight that is heavy enough to challenge you but not so heavy that you can’t move it explosively.
Train your upper body for explosion. Dunking is not just in the legs.
You need your arms and core activated as well for it. If you were to jump really high right now without a ball, notice how you use your arms to propel you upward. You can simulate this in training with medicine ball tosses straight up in the air (probably donthis outside, and watch out for he falling ball!).
Train for speed. In b-ball, you’ll often be running before your dunk attempt; the more speed you can build up, the harder and higher you can explode (thibknof an airplane on a runway, for example). Jumping rope helps train for speed and quickness. You can do sprints with a speed parachute strapped to your waist (one of my favorites for speed training). Same for a weighted vest. Sprint up inclines like hills, bridges and treadmills in high inclines and stair master machines.
Make your body aerodynamic. In other words, be in shape. Don’t be on the court with a beer gut, wondering why you can’t jump high. Reduce body fat and build lean muscle. Simplest ways: Eat right (use your best judgement at the dinner table), reduce/eliminate processed food intake (google these if you need help) as much as possible, drink lots of water (not juice and not sports drinks — just water). Make your body look like what you’d call an “explosive athlete”.
Take care of your body otherwise. No alcohol or illicit drugs. Get ample rest (8+ hours sleep daily).
All that should be a good start. For specific programs, see:
- Vert Shock by Adam Folker: vertshockbb.nabillionaire.com
- The Jump Manual by Jacob Hiller: jumpmanualbb.nabillionaire.com