Don't mean to wenge about Gina Derks, but ...
katherine williams
Looks like Bill Katovsky's time away from Triathlete magazine hasn't changed him any.
He is obviously still smitten and star-struck by Murphy and Murphy's athletes. Case in
point: his August cover profile on Gina Derks.
Yes, that's what I said: "Who???"
Katovsky has written about the first-year pro who, apparently, is easy on the eyes.
Murphy, the best salesman in the sport, spotted in her a marketable babe, and called all
his contacts at some major triathlon companies. They obliged with sponsorship.
Those companies have now gotten their money's worth, and the season's biggest races
are still ahead. (Especially as she's not in them, anyway -- I can't see her qualifying for
either the World Championships or Hawaii Ironman). This single exposure over 31/2 pages,
PLUS the cover, has done the job.
I have a database of 330 professional/elite-level women triathletes worldwide who
have done more in the sport with their performances this year and last than Derks has
ever done.
Far as I can tell, the reasons behind this article are things like -- she hangs out with the
"right" people. She joined the Boulder crowd. Lance Armstrong is her ex-boyfriend. Wes Hobson
is her current boyfriend.
And, she is held up like she is the next Wendy Ingraham or Fernanda Keller. But what
distinguishes those two women -- perhaps the two most-talked about in the sport,
when it comes to looks -- have put in the years, paid their dues and produced world-class
results beyond dispute.
I am just troubled by a magazine and a writer that dote on a woman just for her looks. I am
still waiting to read a cover story about Isabelle Mouthon, second to Karen Smyers in her
Hawaii Ironman debut last year. Maybe she's just old-hat in Europe (and the guts and soul of
Triathlete magazine eminate from Europe). But she would be a welcomed "read" here.
Don't mean to wenge about Gina, but it's just too bad that someone less glamorous, by the
name of Erin Baker, never made the cover in her last years of the sport, especially as she closed
in on her retirement.
There is other credible feature material out there, namely:
-- Brad Beven, one of the sport's winningest triathletes the last few years;
-- the New Zealand duo of Hamish Carter and Sarah Harrow;
-- Jill Newman and Anne Curi, two lawyers and fledgling pros at the same time;
-- Cassie McWiliam, one of the most exciting newcomers of '95, and now a national-team member;
-- Joy Leutner, the longest-lasting female pro out there;
-- Jane Scott, swim coach of the stars in Boulder;
-- Jack Caress, the race director who "saved" Orange County from extinction last year, staged a fine
national champs there this year; will direct the Worlds in Cleveland; and who is now also the appointed
marketing agent for USA Triathlon;
-- etc., etc.
Well, maybe Gina Derks' sponsors will continue to buy ads in the magazine. Maybe that was the whole idea
behind the article in the first place. Because otherwise, I just don't get it.
Katherine Williams
bar...@mailbag.com
TriGuy
Quit ragging on Gina. So Murphy got her some awsome promotion? SO WHAT? He is doing
his job. Gina is highly marketable. She has talent, looks, and a great personality.
While I agree that Erin and Isabelle have ranked higher in athletic prowress, neither
one of them seem to have a media image that could sell anything. Erin has had the
consistant personality of a cold cactus and it appears that Isabelle is too shy.
If you really have a problem with who managers, sponsers, advertisers and magazines deem
marketable, don't buy the product. But, for God's sake, lay off the athlete! Your
cheap shots make me wonder what your real motives are. Grow up and/or get some help!
DIANA R. MCLAUGHLIN
In article <4tgqld$5...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> TRIDICK wrote:
>SEX SELLS MAGAZINES AND PRODUCTS KATIE....YOU HAVE BEEN IN THE
MAGAZINE
>BUSINESS LONG ENOUGH. WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD PICK UP A
MAGAZINE
>WITH A PICTURE OF ERIN BAKER ON THE COVER, UNLESS THEY WANTED TO
SCARE
>THEIR DOG! GINA DERKS IS A CUTE GIRL WITH A LOT OF TALENT. SHE
MAY NOT
>HAVE DEVELOPED INTO A WORLD CLASS TALENT, BUT I WOULD RATHER LOOK
AT HER
>THAN ERIN ANY DAY.
You are an insensitive jerk. I wonder what you look like! And your
online name suits you well!
Diana McLaughlin
Rick Kent
Katherine:
Calm down! Have you ever met Gina Derks? I can tell you that she is one
of the most *positive* role models I can imagine and fully worthy of
this recognition. I challenge you to seek her out, meet with her and see
if you don't come up with the same conclusion. She wouldn't have to win
any races to sell products for sponsors either (just like the Triatlete
article says). Time will tell but I think she will win races. The big
races? Who knows....only time will tell but she certainly doesn't
deserve this meen spirited, jealous poke from you.
You seem to have some other motivation or agenda here.....what is it?
Rick
rk...@eden.com
ccor...@ma.ultranet.com
In <31FA8C...@digital.net>, TriGuy <bab...@digital.net> writes:
>Quit ragging on Gina. So Murphy got her some awsome promotion? SO WHAT? He is doing
>his job. Gina is highly marketable. She has talent, looks, and a great personality.
Actually, after reading the article, I find myself in agreement with Katherine's
comments. The article seemed fairly content free. If Gina performs at the top
of her sport, then she probably will keep the sponsor dollars flowing in. If
she doesn't do well, then perhaps the sponsor dollars will dry up. Her first
two seasons of racing should determine that, yes?
When I read the article, I found myself wishing that there had been a much
more comprehensive article covering all of the first year female and male
pros, instead of just focusing on one pretty face. I was wondering how the
other first year pros are doing with their racing and sponsorship efforts.
Cathy Corning
ccor...@ma.ultranet.com
MCMEAT1
Unfortunatly Kattie women who look like men dont sell magazines
PC
Rolf Arands
tri...@aol.com (TRIDICK) writes:
>SEX SELLS MAGAZINES AND PRODUCTS KATIE....YOU HAVE BEEN IN THE MAGAZINE
>BUSINESS LONG ENOUGH. WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD PICK UP A MAGAZINE
>WITH A PICTURE OF ERIN BAKER ON THE COVER, UNLESS THEY WANTED TO SCARE
>THEIR DOG! GINA DERKS IS A CUTE GIRL WITH A LOT OF TALENT. SHE MAY NOT
>HAVE DEVELOPED INTO A WORLD CLASS TALENT, BUT I WOULD RATHER LOOK AT HER
>THAN ERIN ANY DAY.
You are an asshole, TRIDICK.
-Rolf
--
Rolf "Ironman" Arands, PhD in ChEng
"This above all, to thine own self be true."
TRIDICK
Don't take yourself so seriously Diana....life is short....relax...Do you
know the difference between a golf ball and a women's g spot? I man will
spend 20 minutes looking for a golf ball!
TRIDICK
They do, but unfortunately the demos are small!
TRIDICK
hey rolf, you are a pussy and are not in touch with your true feelings!
TRIDICK
Thank god somebody has their head on their shoulders.
DIANA R. MCLAUGHLIN
You obviously do not have much experiance in lovemaking if you are
more interested in golf or that it takes you 20 minutes to find a
women's g spot.
So "Mr. have done ironman six times" what is your real name? Or
would you rather hind behind an email address while you slam
people. Coward!
Diana McLaughlin
TRIDICK
Cathy... perhaps you are too intellegent to read this newsgroup. you have
hit the nail right on the head. What can be more interesting that how an
upandcoming triathlete can make it into the ranks of the pros. Further,
Gena is truly gifted and may, some day, be one of the very best. I can
only imagine how the radical fem's will react when that happens.
Everybody just calm down and quite taking youselves so seriously. Really,
we don't care.
tridick...your worst nightmare.
DIANA R. MCLAUGHLIN
In article <4tijs0$o...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> MCMEAT1 wrote:
>DM get a life or something go look after your baby . stop baging
on gena it not her fault she is pleasant two the eye just because
these men hating lesbians dont lke her on the cover they would
rather have erin baker sporting a beard instead
>im out
>pc
Very funny Peter. I see you are sneaking on to the net while
Michellie is at swim practice, hummm wait until I tell her about
your antics.
As for Gina Derks, I'm not bagging on her just tridick, whomever he
is? Are you him? He is very harsh, and immature. Sounds like you.
It is a good thing we are friends Peter and 3000 miles apart or I
would comeover and kick your Aussie Arse.
Anxiously awaiting your flame!
Diana
TRIDICK
TRIDICK
By the way, Mr. Rolf "Ironman" Arhole. Does the Ironman mean you
finished the most prestigious, second to none-i-am-bitchen hawaiian
ironman? you must be a lottery fag.....i have done ironman more than six
times, but i do not add that title to my name. i think i have more to
offer as a human being than being a self-absorbed asshole that can train
40 hours a week, year in and year out, ignore my family and job and brag
about what a bitchen guy i am. kill your bike, kiss your wife (if you
like girls) and get your ass to work on time when you wake up!
Jeffrey Justice
>> In <31FA8C...@digital.net>, TriGuy <bab...@digital.net> writes:
>> >Quit ragging on Gina. So Murphy got her some awsome promotion? SO
WHAT? He is doing
>> >his job. Gina is highly marketable. She has talent, looks, and a
great personality.
>>
>> Actually, after reading the article, I find myself in agreement with
Katherine's
>> comments. The article seemed fairly content free. If Gina performs at the top
>> of her sport, then she probably will keep the sponsor dollars flowing in. If
>> she doesn't do well, then perhaps the sponsor dollars will dry up. Her first
>> two seasons of racing should determine that, yes?
>>
IMHO: I thought Gina Derks was a great cover choice. That type of healthy
athletic image sells magazines and is positive for the sport. For a good
cover it really doesn't matter if she is world class talent or not.
I'd much rather view Derks' cover rather than the two orange-haired
nipple-pierced freaks featured the month before.
As far as the Derks article goes... I didn't know anything about Gina
Derks before the article and I still don't know anything significant about
her after reading it.
The article was vintage Katovsky限 pseudo People magazine style限a breezy,
nonsensical stroll down candy-ass lane.
--
JJ
Jeffrey Justice
Oceanside, CA
Thomas Roehr
TRIDICK (tri...@aol.com) wrote:
: hey rolf, you are a pussy and are not in touch with your true feelings!
I believe his is in touch with his feelings, that's why he assigned such
a descriptive label to you.
A person with such demonstrated poise and finesse as yourself should
have no difficulty in accepting such a name graciously, I'm sure you
have heard it a few trillion times before.
Tom Roehr "The Javanator"
tro...@ritz.mordor.com
Km40
I agree with you Jeffery!...........Triathlete Mag is a joke....
Sam
Km40....cheers! (was ZippSam)
TRIDICK
actually, i gave it to myself....someone needs to be a dick and i wear
that title with honor.
katherine williams
tro...@ritz.mordor.com (Thomas Roehr) wrote:
> Seems to be an extremely large amount of noise from someone who hides
> behind just an email address.
He's Bernie Sher from Florida.
Katherine Williams
Bar...@mailbag.com
MCMEAT1
jj you mean CAGA
MCMEAT1
JEFFERY YOU ARE JUST A PISS OFF EX EMPLOYE
StnkyDogg
looks like a bunch of tri-geeks w/ too much extra time and too many
opinions. oh well, everyone has those, and something else too.
Rolf Arands
Tri-ing
No, it was not Bernie Sher. Bernie graciously loaned me his terminal
since mine was down. I replied under the Tri Guy handle.
Patti Sponsler
Florida
TriDork
Well, I'm pretty pissed at this tridick weenie. I thought I was
the asshole here on rst?! He's raggin' on our man "Ironman" and
is too new to know that when we dump on dear Rolfy boy we put a
smilie after it! At least us Canadians do. :-)
Hitler was the one taht proved that no all Germans are nice. And
tridick (sounds too close to TriDork for my taste :-) ) proves
that not all Americans are nice either. Thankfully tridick isn't
likely to inspire anyone to invade Poland or some equally stupid
plan.
Tridick? if you're listening, get a grip pal, and wipe your chin,
you're starting to slobber when you talk.
TriDork
Pat Brug
> There is other credible feature material out there, namely:
> -- Brad Beven, one of the sport's winningest triathletes the last
few years;
> -- the New Zealand duo of Hamish Carter and Sarah Harrow;
> -- Jill Newman and Anne Curi, two lawyers and fledgling pros at the
same time;
<snip>
How about the male/female overall champs at Orange County? Or better yet
a group photo of the amatuer Team USA (from Nationals of course).
---------------------------------------------
__-------__
W.Patrick Brug, Ph.D. _- -_
Los Alamos National Lab -__ __-
\ /
internet: br...@lanl.gov | |
cis: 72410,3372 / \
-----------------..-^--^--..-.- --^.-----
---------------------------------------------
Pat Brug
<snip>
> Actually, after reading the article, I find myself in agreement with
Katherine's
> comments. The article seemed fairly content free. If Gina performs at the top
> of her sport, then she probably will keep the sponsor dollars flowing in. If
> she doesn't do well, then perhaps the sponsor dollars will dry up. Her first
> two seasons of racing should determine that, yes?
<snip>
I think there is a fundamental misconception on why people receive
sponsorship. A lot of emphasis has been put solely on performance
(winning races) in the thread. Past and present history tells us that
performance is just one important piece of the puzzle. Marketing,
sales(wo)manship, personality, and perhaps politics are certainly key
components as well. No-one can deny that "looks" and "sex-appeal" don't
cut accross some of these non-performance related aspects.
Take bike frames for example, this is why, IMHO, everyone is drooling over
Zipps, Softride Power V's, Kestrels etc. They look cool and sexy.
There's been endless debates of the actual performance merits of these
types of bikes. However, in this years TdF, yet again all the fast TT
times were turned in on "traditional" looking bikes with aerobars/disc
wheels/deep V's etc.
I believe these bikes sell for the same combination of factors that Gina
Derks will probably sell. Remember, the only money that is truly dicated
by performance is prize money. With triathlon prize money being so small
compared to almost any other sport, it isn't hard to figure out the
dominating factors in the triathlon sponsorship equation.
Pat
Bruce Ackman
> JEFFERY YOU ARE JUST A PISS OFF EX EMPLOYE
and yew ar a reel gud speler
I hate people who can type faster than they think.
I presume, therefore, you are the "hunt and peck"
sort.
Bruce Ackman
Bruce Platt
Jeffrey Justice wrote:
>
> IMHO: I thought Gina Derks was a great cover choice. That type of healthy
> athletic image sells magazines and is positive for the sport. For a good
> cover it really doesn't matter if she is world class talent or not.
>
> I'd much rather view Derks' cover rather than the two orange-haired
> nipple-pierced freaks featured the month before.
>
> As far as the Derks article goes... I didn't know anything about Gina
> Derks before the article and I still don't know anything significant about
> her after reading it.
>
> The article was vintage Katovsky限 pseudo People magazine style限a breezy,
> nonsensical stroll down candy-ass lane.
>
> --
> JJ
>
> Jeffrey Justice
> Oceanside, CA
Wow, JJ is back!
I agree that Derks on the cover is better than the previous month, but
all i learned about Derks is that she used to date Lance Armstrong and
now dates Wes Hobson, If thats all it takes to get big sponsorship
bucks I'd date Lance, Wes is too tall for me ;-)
TriRef
Ventoux
In article <4t8bb0$e...@grandcanyon.binc.net>, katherine williams
<bar...@mailbag.com> writes:
>Don't mean to wenge about Gina,
Call me stupid - but what does "wenge" mean?
I agree with Ms. Williams comments generally. What's going on with
Triathlete is what has happened to Runner's World. As long as the glitzy
cover doesn't reduce content quality, it's OK with me. The article on Ms.
Derks aside - which wasn't too terrible - the rest of the issue seemed
pretty good. So, if it makes a profit - which means the mag stays around
for me to enjoy - I can put up with some fluff.
BTW, anyone care to compare Triathlete with Inside Triathlon? Which is
better?
Bob Johnson
Pat Brug
In article <4timij$9...@epx.cis.umn.edu>, dav...@hiv.med.umn.edu (David
LaPorte (Biochem)) wrote:
> TRIDICK (tri...@aol.com) wrote:
> : actually, i gave it to myself....someone needs to be a dick and i wear
> : that title with honor.
>
>
> MCMEAT1 (mcm...@aol.com) wrote:
> : JEFFERY YOU ARE JUST A PISS OFF EX EMPLOYE
>
>
> On a related note, does anyone know if there's a capacity limit for a kill
> file? It seems to be getting updated a lot lately. :-(
>
>
Dave,
I agree. Seems like we need to create a new sandbox for these guys to play...
Jeffrey Justice
>> JEFFERY YOU ARE JUST A PISS OFF EX EMPLOYE
Actually not at all. I still write for Triathlete on occassion, and I
think it is usually better than Inside Triathlon. Four years there was
good enough for me.
Rick Teichler
In article <4tgqld$5...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, tri...@aol.com (TRIDICK) writes:
[along with other pointless and gratuitous remarks]
[SNIP]
> GINA DERKS IS A CUTE GIRL WITH A LOT OF TALENT. SHE MAY NOT
>HAVE DEVELOPED INTO A WORLD CLASS TALENT, BUT I WOULD RATHER LOOK AT HER
>THAN ERIN ANY DAY.
Which only proves that you know nothing about Ms. Baker, and chose
your magazines by their flashy covers.
This is a troll from a puberty-addled kid with an AOL account, right?
After reading some more of his adolescent drivel, I've decided that
he (or it) has earned the honor of being the first contributor to
r.s.t. to make it onto my kill-file list. Congratulations, TinyDick!
You've earned it.
Rick Teichler
teic...@sweng.stortek.com (StorageTek Software Engineering--
Louisville, Colorado)
"Usual disclaimers: blame me, not the company that keeps me."
katherine williams
Katherine Williams here:
No, indeed, TriGuy/Bernie Sher is not TriDick/asshole. My sincere apologies to Bernie;
my mistake, too. I used the Alta Vista search engine to look up TriGuy last night,
hopeful to see who is was who responded initially to my post, without signing a name.
When all the TriDick crap occurred this morning, I thought back to my search last night
and thought I was so clever for figuring out this new nuisance.
I have e-mailed apologies to Bernie separately.
Sorry, folks. Just trying to help out. I feel dumb.
Katherine Williams
Bar...@mailbag.com
MCMEAT1
David LaPorte (Biochem)
TRIDICK (tri...@aol.com) wrote:
: actually, i gave it to myself....someone needs to be a dick and i wear
: that title with honor.
MCMEAT1 (mcm...@aol.com) wrote:
: JEFFERY YOU ARE JUST A PISS OFF EX EMPLOYE
On a related note, does anyone know if there's a capacity limit for a kill
file? It seems to be getting updated a lot lately. :-(
Dave LaPorte
Beginning Road Racing Program
St. Paul Bicycle Racing Club
SIETE
The majority of you need to take a freakin break from your pathetic
lives to analize what you are doing to our sport. Lets just wait and see
what happens to the Derk's and Beaman's of our minute world we call
multisport. If they turn out to be sour....they'll just be spit out. If
they're careers turn out sweet....good for them. Maybe it's jealousy,
envy, or even regret....whatever, we all have it...even ME! But if that
is the emotion I feel, I'll take it out on myself at the next race. Who
knows...maybe I'll see my cute little ass on some mag one day and say, "Is
THIS all worth it?"
I remain.......
Walk it easy!
"7"
El Siete
Rolf Arands
teic...@sweng.stortek.com (Rick Teichler) writes:
>This is a troll from a puberty-addled kid with an AOL account, right?
Yup. I think TRIDICK, MCMEAT, and SIETE are all the same
little jerk who really needs some parenting.
Paulo Ferreira de Sousa
MCMEAT1 wrote:
>
> JEFFERY YOU ARE JUST A PISS OFF EX EMPLOYE
Does this belong to RST ???
I thought that this newsgroup was different, but not anymore...
Paulo
Paulo Ferreira de Sousa
Does this belong to RST ???
Paulo Ferreira de Sousa
TRIDICK wrote:
>
> actually, i gave it to myself....someone needs to be a dick and i wear
> that title with honor.
Does this belong to RST ???
katherine williams
Tim Carlson writes:
> 2. Gina Derks was second at worlds last year, has improved her game and
> might make it as a pro, and is extremely pretty and in our capitalistic
> culture she can sell magazines and products. This in itself is an
> interesting phenomenon. Katovsky got that idea immediately, I just wish he
> had taken her deeper into the subject in the interview. How self aware is
> she about all of this?
This is an excellent point, as well as Tim's points about Erin.
If I were writing the piece, I would have waited a few more races before annointing
her 31/2 pages. Like I said before, the cover is okay. It's the inside stuff/fluff that
follows.
My problem isn't with Gina; it's with whoever decided she deserved 31/2 pages at this
point in her career!
And now let's really stop all the "wenging"!
Katherine Williams
Bar...@mailbag.com
Jeff Cook
In article <4tgqld$5...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, TRIDICK (tri...@aol.com) writes:
>SEX SELLS MAGAZINES AND PRODUCTS KATIE....YOU HAVE BEEN IN THE MAGAZINE
>BUSINESS LONG ENOUGH. WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD PICK UP A MAGAZINE
>WITH A PICTURE OF ERIN BAKER ON THE COVER, UNLESS THEY WANTED TO SCARE
>THEIR DOG! GINA DERKS IS A CUTE GIRL WITH A LOT OF TALENT. SHE MAY NOT
>HAVE DEVELOPED INTO A WORLD CLASS TALENT, BUT I WOULD RATHER LOOK AT HER
>THAN ERIN ANY DAY.
>
internationally ranked athletes too (rowing and aerobics (I think)).
Yes I'd pick up the magazine with a pic of any ar all of them on the
front.
As they say down here, "Get in behind, tridick" (this phrase relates to
sheepdogs!!)
--
Jeff Cook je...@aspect.co.nz
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Tri-Git
Blimey. You leave RST for a couple of weeks and what happens? People
go and get all silly and nasty with each other. Let calmness and
serenity reign...peace to the lillies, hullo birds, hullo trees etc.
...and if you're going to abuse each other, you could at least make an
effort at being entertaining....whatever happened to wit? (to woo)
Oh yeah, and wot's "wenge"ing? Sounds rude to me...
Tri-Git
TGCarlson
OK OK OK!
RST took an unfortunate detour into the Howard Tri-Stern sewer.
Except for Katherine Williams and Cathy Corning and some reasoning from
Rolf, and a nice blast, which I do not agrtee with, from JJ on author
Katovsky, my skin was crawling with the same kind of repulsion I felt when
I first took up AOL and ventured into the Sports opinion Chat rooms which
are filled with voyeuristic perverts and sub-cretinous sponge heads who
keep utilizing basic swear words as their badge of belonging.
Now for a few points:
1. With all due envy to Scott Molina, who married that Fabulous Baker
Girl, in my book Erin Baker is a babe. She has a great body and obviously
a great heart and even more important, courage to speak the truth both in
sports and in the world arena. Note her stand on apartheid, and her
willingness to speak her mind on absolutely anyone who in her opinion is
misusing their authority. It is these qualities, in addition to her finely
sculpted chassis, in addition to her fierce devotion to sport, and now an
even more fierce devotion to her children, that makes her beautiful. To
me, it is those qualities that make her beautiful and certainly worthy of
stories and covers even now, well into her retirement, her almost
unmatchable record still makes her a fascinating person and well worthy of
a cover story. In my book, real men aren't afraid of fearless women with
smart mouths who will take on people who say dumb, cruel or stupid things.
TYoo bad she is not on RST.
2. Gina Derks was second at worlds last year, has improved her game and
might make it as a pro, and is extremely pretty and in our capitalistic
culture she can sell magazines and products. This in itself is an
interesting phenomenon. Katovsky got that idea immediately, I just wish he
had taken her deeper into the subject in the interview. How self aware is
she about all of this?
Timothy Carlson
katherine williams
And here's one more thing:
Some of you think Erin Baker didn't deserve the cover because she didn't look fantastic.
I was really disappointed when she failed to make it, particularly after she won Zofingen
after announcing her retirement (1994).
Cover choices are so strange! Take, for example, the 17 times that
Mark Allen appeared on the cover since 1985. Editor-at-the-time CJ Oliveres
definitely had an Allen fixation. No wonder he later became Allen's agent after
exiting Triathlete's revolving door.
So, for those of you who would never want Erin on the cover -- you want "stars" (you
got Mark Allen 17 times), yet you don't want Erin Baker?
You say people like Derks on the cover sell magazines -- yet Mark Allen gets the cover
17 times? That's as frequently as the Princess of Wales makes the People magazine cover!
Why can't this Triathlete do for covers what they do in Europe? A recent German Triathlete
featured Annaleah Emmerson on the cover. She's a mid-level pro with a sprinkling of mid-level
results. But she's great looking, very natural, and the pic they used showed her really
enjoying the sport.
But there wasn't 31/2 pages to follow, just the notation that it was Britain's Emmerson
on the cover.
OR -- if people are so into well-sponsored atheletes, why not put Daryl Haley on the cover?
He was one of the biggest stories of 1995.
Katherine Williams
Bar...@mailbag.com
Tricia Richter
Timothy!
I'm so glad to see you hanging 'round these parts again! You've obviously
been a busy man of late, and I, for one, have sorely missed you.
Any chance we might get to meet this season? I'll be at the following venues:
Santa Barbara County
Pacific Grove
Bass Lake
Santa Cruz Sentinel
Please say you'll be making a personal appearance at at least one of
these! I won't feel my season is complete 'til we meet.
Take care!
Tricia
Tri-Baby
_
- o
' - __o - </\_
` ' - \< - __/\
/\o_ - (()) (()) - /
^^^^^^^^^^
"REAL Triathletes don't draft!"
Stephen A. Judice
If you are so high on yourself to degrade and riticule others without even
knowing them,why don't you find the shift key on your keyboard and capitalize
your "I's".
TRIDICK (tri...@aol.com) wrote:
: By the way, Mr. Rolf "Ironman" Arhole. Does the Ironman mean you
bill katovsky
this posting will shock people; i've been in hiding from the tri-scene
and multisport scene for awhile, as the powers that be will soon grant
the resurrection of multisport. BUT HAVING BEEN RESPONSIBLE FOR CHOOSING
1/3 of all covers in the history of Triathlete magazine, I will share
with everyone some little known facts.
1. In 1984, I put Mark Allen on the cover for the first time, because he
was a shy, nice and talented guy. He had yet to win Nice or Ironman.
2. In 1983, I place Joanne Ernst on the cover because I made a friendly
bet with her before the start of Gulf Coast. If she won, she'd get the
cover.At the time, she was a complete unknown. The next year or so, she
won the Ironman and secured a fat Nike sponsorship contract.
3. In 1986, I put John duPont on the cover. He liked it so much that he
sent a personal copy to his "good friend President Ford' by helicopter.
Having too much money is a very bad thing, and duPont will probably make
the cover of Prison Life.
4. Mike Pigg's bald head--one of the best-selling covers in Triathlete's
history. Before the photo shoot, he told me that he was going to let his
hair grow back. In fact, he was initially shocked by the bald head
cover. However, soon after, it became his trademark, his sponsors had a
great marketing hook, and you can bet wife Marcie will always have
plenty of razors on hand in the shower.
5. My favorite cover was the three Molina boys. Sean and Phil however
flamed out.
6. Worst-selling cover was Julie Moss dressed as Madonna. Triathletes, I
discovered, didn't share my sense of humor.
7. HERE's why I suggested Gina Derks: she's a good athlete, she's very
polite and well-mannered, and one of the few triathletes I have met and
interviewed who is not so self-absorbed in herself that she can't take
the time to inquire about others. As a sweet, nice woman, she's tops in
my book. And yes, she'll sell Speedos. Just as Joanne Ernst sold Nikes.
8. I was responsible for placing the DeBooms on the cover, and in
retrospect that was a mistake. Why? Because of their lack of gratitude
and unfriendliness. Perhaps they are too immature. Getting a cover is a
big thing in this sport, and a thanks, while not expected, is
appreciated. Tim walked right past me at the Ironman, as if I didn't
exist. Bad form. Tony at least said hello.
9. I have placed old men, twins, no-names, age-groupers, body parts such
as legs and backs on the cover of Triathlete, and Gina was a delight to
work with.
10.FINALLY, WHEN I WAS AT INSIDE TRIATHLON AS THE FOUNDING
EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, I arranged a cover photo shoot to place ERIN BAKER on
the cover. All went well, but it was overruled by the publisher. The
next month or so, I did the same with Dave Scott before his comeback,
but the publisher was on vacation. He then fought me every way about not
putting Dave on the cover. That battle I won.
SO NEVER JUDGE A BOOK OR MAGAZINE BY ITS COVER OR EDITOR.
bill katovsky
TGCarlson
Things have been very very very rocky in these parts on many fronts but I
truly love the Santa Barbara County Triathlon and hope to be there.
Great to hear your success at Vineman. I hear conditions there were as
ideal as they get and if not for a crush of work would have appeared. I
have run 200 mioles last month, but biked almost nil amnd same for
swimming.
i hope to meet you and love ya dearly, matey
tim
Chip James
If I can de-lurk for a quick question about the article.
Did I just get a copy that got screwed up in printing, or
is the 1st page of the article completely blank for the
top 2/3rds of the page? Seems like there ought to be a
picture or some kind of graphic.
By the way, I'm not only de-lurking on this newsgroup but
also on the triathlon world. After veggin' out for the
last 4 years since my 2nd child was born, I'm shooting
for a sprint distrance triathlon on 10/6. I look forward
to catching up on the triathlon world here.
Chip
Tricia Richter
> Ventoux (Bob Johnson)wrote:
> >
> > BTW, anyone care to compare Triathlete with Inside Triathlon? Which is
> > better?
> >
Triathlete gets points for pix. Except that they quite frequently fail to
caption many of them, which can be annoying. I'm afraid they definitely
lose points for lousy editing and proofreading; I have yet to read an
issue that didn't make me cringe at the numerous and glaring errors in
spelling, grammar, and punctuation, not to mention frequent mislabelling
of photos. That goes DOUBLE for their Website, it's absolutely atrocious;
whoever's putting that stuff up obviously got no further in school than
the 5th grade. They definitely get demerits for sloppy presentation.
Inside Tri isn't perfect, but such errors are significantly fewer and
farther between in IT. Content-wise, I think Inside Tri tends to be a
little more "hard hitting" and a bit less fluffy. IT covers more (and
more varied) races, and is more flexible in allowing for longer articles
when the material warrants it.
As far as regular columnists, I'll take Triathlete's Tinley over IT's Dave
Scott any day. Dave Scott is just too damned serious, and I've always
found him rather smug and arrogant. There's no denying his talent and
success, and truly competitive triathletes may appreciate his intensely
focussed and detailed training advice, but that's one page of IT that I
consistently ignore every month. That, of course, is just personal
preference, so take it for what it's worth!
Both magazines have their plusses and minuses. I actually have a
subscription to IT, and I'll probably end up subscribing to Triathlete as
well because I find myself buying the damned thing every month anyway! I
just can't get enough when it comes to the sport I love.
If I had to choose between the two, I'd probably go with IT, though I'd
sorely miss the color and photographs in Triathlete. Although I must say
that the photography frequently disappoints me; there just aren't enough
action shots. And considering that the photos are one of Triathlete's
"plusses", that's kind of sad. How many of you have seen the Triathlete
1996 Calendar? Who in the hell chose those photographs?? Maybe it's just
me, but most of them are awfully dull; perhaps they're meant to be "art
shots".
Anyway, just my $.02. For all my criticizing, I'm glad to have multiple
periodicals available that cover triathlon, and I hope both continue to
grow and improve.
p.s. I think the best race photograph I've seen in YEARS was the cover of
the June (I think it was June!) Competitor Magazine that featured Spencer
Smith looking over his shoulder at a barely-recognizable Greg Welch
grimacing in pain as they sprint for the line at one of the Australian GP
races. God, what a shot!
Fabien Pichard
I prefer inside tri at triathlete. more complete...
If you like velonews, you will like inside triathlon
-- fabien "ZeBigFrenchMan"
fabi...@msn.com
For the joy of Triing
> Shirer <shi...@cyberramp.net> wrote in article
<3200C7...@cyberramp.net>...
> Ventoux (Bob Johnson)wrote:
> >
> > BTW, anyone care to compare Triathlete with Inside Triathlon? Which
is
> > better?
> >
> > Bob Johnson
>
> IMHO, Inside Triathlon is far better.
>
> Bill Shirer
>
Bruce Platt
bill katovsky wrote:
>
...
> 7. HERE's why I suggested Gina Derks: she's a good athlete, she's very
> polite and well-mannered, and one of the few triathletes I have met and
> interviewed who is not so self-absorbed in herself that she can't take
> the time to inquire about others. As a sweet, nice woman, she's tops in
> my book. And yes, she'll sell Speedos. Just as Joanne Ernst sold Nikes.
>
I dont think anyone had a problem with her cover or that she got a 3
page article. What we wanted was an indepth article, not fluff about
dating Lance, we were interested in her traing regimes her race resume,
her future goals. You know the tough questions.
thanks for ringing in ,bill
TriRef
Shirer
Chuckrun
One major advantage that Inside Tri has, is that they are usually a month
or two faster in getting coverage of major events out. I received the
latest issue of both Triathlete and Inside Tri this week. Triathlete had
a big spread on Memphis In May, while Inside Tri had coverage of Mrs. T's
and Ironman Germany, both of which took place about 3 weeks ago. I am not
trying to criticize Triathlete. As someone who works in the printing
industry, I understand that their format, with four color photos printed
on coated stock is much more expensive and time consuming to produce.
Inside Tri uses a cheaper and quicker printing method. It's a tradeoff
between quick turnaround and classier looking product.
As far as content, I have to agree with Tricia, with the expection of
"Tinley Talks", Inside Tri wins for me. I commute to work by bus, so one
of the ways I judge a magazines depth is by how many trips it takes me to
go through it. I can stretch a Triathlete for 2 days, to and from work,
while an Inside Tri can usually last 3 or 4. As far as Dave Scott's
column, I think that a few issues ago, even he admitted that it was a
little to hardcore, and promised to try to lighten up a bit.
One thing that I've noticed about both magazines is that they each seem to
have a regional bias. Inside Tri, being based in Boulder does a fantastic
job of covering the Colorado racing and training scene. Triathlete,
coming out of California seems to emphasize San Diego. I'm sort of hoping
that some prospective publisher in Florida is getting jealous, and we
could get a third publication on the market :).
Chuck Berghoefer
Bill Webber
tri...@forsythe.stanford.edu (Tricia Richter) wrote:
>
>As far as regular columnists, I'll take Triathlete's Tinley over IT's Dave
>Scott any day.
...two totally different purposes in their writing...
Dave Scott is just too damned serious, and I've always
>found him rather smug and arrogant. There's no denying his talent and
>success, and truly competitive triathletes may appreciate his intensely
>focussed and detailed training advice, but that's one page of IT that I
>consistently ignore every month. That, of course, is just personal
>preference, so take it for what it's worth!
Oh...man!! I just have to take issue with this, I'm sorry! I have
been in this sport since 1983 and have had the good fortune to have met
Dave Scott several times, and had several discussions about all kinds of
subjects with him. Concurrently, I have had the misfortune to have run
into Scott Tinley as well and been brushed off every single time.
Hey! Maybe it's just me...I do not doubt for a minute that Dave and
I had more to relate to each other than Scott and I do... and admittedly I
stopped trying to talk with Tinley after the third successive brush-off.
But my observations of Dave cause me to conclude that he is one of the
most down-to-Earth elite athletes on the planet.
A couple of stories leaps to mind...in 1995, I raced the Gulf Coast
Triathlon in Panama City, Florida. Dave was there for the week as a
friend of the race (he raced there as early as 1983), and hosting a
triathlon camp as well. On race day, Dave was out on the course on his
bike (riding the course in the opposite direction that the athletes were
going), and passing out encouragement to all the athletes. In 1992, he
was there again...but this time he was giving run splits to the athletes
at a couple of points on the run course, again shouting encouragement.
Here's a guy that I could have for a neighbor and count on him to
pick up my newspaper and mail when I'm on vacation. I have always, and
will continue to, refer to Dave as "the six-time Ironman champ next-door."
cheers, Bill Webber (trichi)
SteveBlum
For what it's worth, I subscribe to Triathlete and not Inside Tri for
three, highly subjective, and probably not very good reasons:
1. I started reading Triathlete back when it was Triathlon and it was
just getting started, circa 1983. Old habits are hard to break.
2. For all the faults of its website (please, somebody, update those
events listings -- I don't think they changed all winter), Triathlete lets
you subscribe online. Inside Tri just gives you an 800-number to call
(anyway, that's the way it was the last time I tried to subscribe online).
3. Velonews pissed me off with its little trademark tantrum last year.
Yes, I know they backed off and apologized (sorta), but I consider the
mere act of unleashing the dogs of law as antisocial as, say, dumping Les
McDonald in Monterey Bay (why do you think we go to all the trouble and
expense of building class 3 toxic waste sites, for heaven's sake?). They
annoyed me, and as a sovereign consumer, that's enough.
I've read Inside Tri once or twice, and it seems pretty good. IMHO, Dave
Scott makes a fine columnist. Yes, he's very serious and intense, and
operates on a level far beyond my mortal powers and abilities, but I get
psyched just reading it. And I'll hasten to add that Scott Tinley's
column does the same sort of thing for me, but in a different way. It's
good to have the benefit both their points of view every month, which is
why I may someday subscribe to Inside Tri. Maybe.
Anyway, just my two cents worth.
Steve Blum (stev...@aol.com)
The Carmel Group
"Of course the game is rigged, but if you don't play you can't win."
R.A.H.
RSchm41268
I agree whole heartedly. I know Dave fairly well now and he is always very
pleasant. I met him briefly about six years ago and six months later he
came up to me at an airport, called me by my first name and talked for at
least 30 minutes. Since then, he has always been the model of
friendliness.
I did talk with him about his training articles. Part of the problem stems
from his publisher editing his articles to the point that they can become
confusing. He tries to write to all levels of abilities, which can also
lead to problems.
Anthony Epstein
If you ever get the chance, have a look at the Australian version of
Triathlete. It is a fine example of people who love the sport but have no
idea of how to put together a magazine.
It is a very glossy & colourful spread, but is pathetic in comparison to
it's U.S. version. It seems like most of the photos are taken by the
competitor's mothers & friends as they zoom by. For a sport which is so
visually exciting and full of photogenic bodies the photos are very
amateur. It is quite disappointing that a large glossy format is wasted
on photo's that are exceptionally bad.
Unfortunately, the articles are not much better. They are very light
weight and lack anything like the witt and reflection of Tinley. As a
result the magazine has no personality.
The main advantage to me is it's Australian focus. It's
understandably rare for the U.S. version to mention anything about the
Australian season.
It's quite a pity that although we have many world class triathletes, we
have a very second class magazine.
Anthony Epstein
katherine williams
bill katovsky <msport@well.> wrote:
> 8. I was responsible for placing the DeBooms on the cover, and in
> retrospect that was a mistake. Why? Because of their lack of gratitude
> and unfriendliness. Perhaps they are too immature. Getting a cover is a
> big thing in this sport, and a thanks, while not expected, is
> appreciated. Tim walked right past me at the Ironman, as if I didn't
> exist. Bad form. Tony at least said hello.
Hey, Bill:
Thanks for un-lurking. Now why don't you ask your friend Murphy to do
the same?
Don't mean to shock anyone here, but what Bill doesn't know is that I was
responsible for writing half the article about the DeBooms -- the half that
wasn't under Phil Maffetone's byline.
Phil and I were doing some stuff together at the time; Phil said that Bill
wanted an article all about the fast rise of the DeBooms, etc., etc. So, with
Phil's help and guidance, I wrote the guts of the piece.
Bill loved it, I was told.
It wasn't exactly how I might have chosen to profile the pair, but it had all the
"glamour" elements that Bill gets off on.
My biggest problem with the piece was that -- the DeBooms had been profiled
only 14 or 15 months earlier! Jim Ferstle spent a weekend with the two guys in
October 1993. Except, I don't think he's been paid for the article yet.
Katherine Williams
Bar...@mailbag.com
Shirer
Tricia Richter wrote:
>"Dave Scott is just too damned serious, and I've always found him rather
>smug and arrogant."
I recently attended a Dave Scott tri-camp in Shreveport, La. where the group
had the opportunity to receive instruction and advice from "The Man" for two
days. I concur with Ms. Richter's comment.
I feel Dave Scott has lost perspective of the fact that the vast majority of
triathletes are in this sport for fun and do not compete on a championship
level.
Mr. Scott was long on the learning and short on the fun. IMO, it was very
apparent that Dave Scott was not enjoying himself either.
Joanna Cain
ROSE PATOU
I have just titled another article on one specific reason why
Triathlete magazine is not worth buying, but I think I have a few more
reasons.
Triathlete magazine is written for beginner triathletes. It
seems to be written for those people who are in the sport to tell people
that they are in the sport. I'm sure you know the type- the person who
brings his swim bag to dinner when he did not even swim. I'm sure that I
am missing a few authors, but Roy Wallack seems to be the only constant
expert writer. Although, Alex's recent article on running was
informative, even for an ex-college runner. The magazine seems to pick
and choose races it wants to cover by a strange method. Almost every
little 20 minute California tri is covered while Ironman Qualifiers
(Lubbock) are overlooked.
I believe that although the magazine is prettier, or
fluffier; Inside Tri's authors seem to have a hold on the sport. I
really only read triathlete mag because someone in my family always gives
me a subscription.
I am sure that the 2nd tier of pros (not the Mark Allens)
like Nate L., McMartin are not exact;y excited about their lack of
coverage. There are many fast pros and amatuers who get snubbed by
triathlete magazine so that a 60 yr old who races in 17:00 can get
complete race event and life coverage. Don't misunderstand me, these
athletes are also incredible; but, when there are only two major mags one
would believem that the fast would be covered first - not the Ripley's
believe it or nots.
I was lucky enough to meet one of Triathlete's mostly female
crew at Powerman Al. The gal was very nice and attractive. She proceeded
to groupee over the fact that Lars was talking to her. She also quickly
told Lars how her buddy (what's his no-name) was his competition. I, on
the other hand was an unknown, despite the fact that I came out 10th
overall before the only drafting penalty of my life was awarded to drop me
back to 13th.
Triathlete magazine is for groupees who want to know what is
the cover story of the sport: Alen wins, Spencer gets a penalty, the kid
with the red hair will make the olympics. Inside tri is the small shop
magazine that delivers quick coverage of a much more wide variety of
races.
Triathlete magazine is also for the guy ( I really don't know
his name) who I first encountered last year at Buffalo Springs. HE was
loud mouthing before the race how he was the daddy. At the awards,
despite having no chance of qualifying, he stood up and responded to a
funbled anouncer statement as if he should get the slot. Then at MR's T's
last year in one of the lines this goateed green haired x-slacker (yellow
wetsuit) asked me if I was fast. He asked the question as if I sucked and
was supposed to cringe at the thought of him asking it. Well I was glad
to pass this sack at .5 on the run he seemed to be running 1 minute slower
than my 5:49 pace. I also overheard him when he was crowding the national
team table (despite not even being close) complaining about 2 flat tires
(and he still biked 1:00).
As luck would have it I saw this waste of air at the Full
Vineman in his yellow suit, and running his mouth. I am surprised that he
could finish a full seing that all I was trying to do was finish. Well, I
did much better than just finish (but I relaize it is nothing to brag
about). But because I am sure that this sack is reading this message -
where were you when they were handing out wine, buddy?
This guy is the kind of guy that reads and devours Triathlete
magazine; someone who races but obviuosly does not train and certainly
does not realize that the training is not just that. The training is a
lifestyle that is not about walking around after a race making up excuses
or talking about how fast they are. I myself am still learning what
triathlon is all about, but I feel that Inside Tri wins. M. Patout
G.holmes
> Dave Scott is just too damned serious, and I've always
when he writes he is not smug and arrogant.
In fact he's far from it.I've been to Dave's camp in Colorado the
last 2 years.I've learned alot and am swimming better and biking
better than I ever have. I will probably go back next year but
notonly for the training. If you talk to anybody thats been to
Dave's Camps you'll get the same response. He's one of the
nicest and modest guys in the sport. He really cares about every
camper and takes time with each and everyone. Most of the people
from the first camp have kept in touch with dave. In fact he
helps train some of them. If I need some advice All I have to do
is call his office or send some email and he will return the call
and help. I had a great time. We would be running up the sides of
the mountain in Vail and Copper Mountain and Dave would run back
and forth makeing sure everyone was okay and giveing some form
tips etc. Last year when someone had a flat he would be the one
to stop and wait till they fixed it. Next time you are at a race
or where Dave's putting on a camp just go talk to him. Then try
that with Tinley. I have no problem with Tinley I enjoy his
column. Dave's last 2 column's have been a bit more layed back.
Don't judge someone by the way they write...
Gary Holmes.
Tricia Richter
In article <4u58qj$ho8$1...@mhade.production.compuserve.com>, G.holmes
<7266...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
Well, you're right about that last point. But I'm not really "judging"
Dave. It's just been the impression I've received, both from his writing
and from interviews with him I've seen/read. Sure, if I met him in
person, maybe I wouldn't find him quite so impersonal and dull. I don't
deny that likelihood. I just find his writing and his focus more
hard-core than I'm interested in. I *did* say that was just my opinion,
and in no way had anything to do with what other people should/do think
about him.
I, too, have actually heard some negative things about Tinley from a
number of sources. And to tell you the truth, even his writing is getting
a little old! But as a choice between two writers, I'd rather read Tinley
than Scott. I don't think I'm "way off base" on that one, really, 'cause
even Dave himself has recognized the need to lighten up a bit of late!
Personally, I'm excited to hear that Karen Smyers will be writing a
regular column for IT in the near future. I'm willing to bet she'll
succeed in combining the best of both worlds in her writing.
In any case, as I said in my initial posting, I really do wish the best
for both Inside Triathlon and Triathlete; I want BOTH publications to
flourish and continue to cover our sport from all angles.
Rob Holt
tri...@forsythe.stanford.edu (Tricia Richter) wrote:
>Personally, I'm excited to hear that Karen Smyers will be writing a
>regular column for IT in the near future. I'm willing to bet she'll
>succeed in combining the best of both worlds in her writing.
>
Any triathlete who also owns a bar is bound to have an interesting
perspective on the sport. Can't wait!
By the way, do you have any info on Scott's training camp (place, date,
$$$). You can e-mail me the info, or post it if you think others might
be interested.
LeePublish
Finally a topic I know a little about (as opposed to triathlon, a fact
I've proven in many races!).
I'll say quickly that I prefer Inside Triathlon...but appreciate and also
subscribe to Triathlete. Let's recognize that we are blessed with having
two national magazines on triathlon in the US (as well as a number of fine
regional publications, too).
Why do I prefer Inside Tri? It's timely and highly factual. The VeloNews
crew in taking over and remaking Triathlon Times have done their best to
bring us what has made VeloNews so successful--in depth, timely coverage.
The staff has busted their butts to get us Ironman and other coverage in
extraordinarily fast time--using special printing schedules and air
delivery. I really appreciate this.
I also like IT's attitude. Its not written for a beginner. But neither
is it meant to be exclusive. The idea is that as a participant in the
sport you, the reader, are an insider. You know who Mark and Pigg and the
Queen of Kona, etc., etc. are. You know what the Ironman and ITU and QR,
etc., etc., are. The magazine talks to us like we are at the races,
talking with these folks, our peers (hah!), and picking up scuttlebutt and
racing tips and much more.
IT's layout and tabloid format work well to present a load of information.
Tabloids are typically more suitable for delivering "news" than standard
format magazines and IT is no exception.
I agree that four-color photography sometimes makes Triathlete a winner
(especially on the covers). But I find the layout confining, a bit boring
and dated. And I often feel that the magazine really doesn't have an
overiding theme or feel or attitude. It's just a bunch of articles about
triathlon somehow tossed together. The ingredients are sometimes quite
good--such as Tinley and Wollack--but the salad just doesn't taste good
enough to suit me.
IT just needs to refine its format a little--get a couple of great
columnists to whom we can pledge allegiance. Triathlete ought to study
Runner's World. It is a great example of how a standard format four-color
sports magazine can serve the wide range of readers in its sport.
--Lee ("I was a paperboy so I could read the paper first; I'm a publishing
consultant so people will send me magazines!) Crumbaugh
LeePu...@aol.com
LeePublish
Bill Katovsky wrote:
>HAVING BEEN RESPONSIBLE FOR CHOOSING
>1/3 of all covers in the history of Triathlete magazine, I will share
>with everyone some little known facts.
>1. In 1984, I put Mark Allen on the cover for the first time, because he
>was a shy, nice and talented guy. He had yet to win Nice or Ironman.
So what does shy and nice have to do with picking a cover, Bill? You sure
were right about the talented part!
>2. In 1983, I place Joanne Ernst on the cover because I made a friendly
>bet with her before the start of Gulf Coast. If she won, she'd get the
>cover.At the time, she was a complete unknown. The next year or so, she
>won the Ironman and secured a fat Nike sponsorship contract.
You pick cover subjects based on bets? I'd rather use the criteria: What
will readers want to see?
>4. Mike Pigg's bald head--one of the best-selling covers in Triathlete's
>history. Before the photo shoot, he told me that he was going to let his
>hair grow back. In fact, he was initially shocked by the bald head
>cover. However, soon after, it became his trademark, his sponsors had a
>great marketing hook, and you can bet wife Marcie will always have
>plenty of razors on hand in the shower.
Pigg--the classic hard worker who wins--is someone we want to read
about...and the bald look just made him even more interesting.
>7. HERE's why I suggested Gina Derks: she's a good athlete, she's very
>polite and well-mannered, and one of the few triathletes I have met and
>interviewed who is not so self-absorbed in herself that she can't take
>the time to inquire about others. As a sweet, nice woman, she's tops in
>my book. And yes, she'll sell Speedos. Just as Joanne Ernst sold Nikes.
Come on, admit it, Bill. Gina was pictured because she looks so good and
because it was felt she would sell magazines. Sure, as a pro she is valid
to write about, but without the looks she would not be a cover topic.
(BTW, I agree with the critics who say that the article was too fluffy.
But perhaps I'm more interested in "gritty, factual stories" from which I
can take away more that I can use myself as a MOP'er-to-BOP'er
triathlete.)
>8. I was responsible for placing the DeBooms on the cover, and in
>retrospect that was a mistake. Why? Because of their lack of gratitude
>and unfriendliness. Perhaps they are too immature. Getting a cover is a
>big thing in this sport, and a thanks, while not expected, is
>appreciated. Tim walked right past me at the Ironman, as if I didn't
>exist. Bad form. Tony at least said hello.
So to get continuing coverage you have to kiss up to the media? I would
hope that the cover subject earns that position due to performance, not
because he or she is "good" to a journalist. Sure, we all like to be
thanked and often deserve it. In fact, thanks, Bill, for all the great
stories you've written that I've enjoyed. Can I get on the cover now?
:-)
>9. I have placed old men, twins, no-names, age-groupers, body parts such
>as legs and backs on the cover of Triathlete, and Gina was a delight to
>work with.
Again, so what? Gina is not running for Ms. Personality at Atlantic City.
She's a pro triathlete from whom through your coverage we readers are
supposed to gain something. (Hopefully more than just a "rush" from her
good looks.)
>10.FINALLY, WHEN I WAS AT INSIDE TRIATHLON AS THE FOUNDING
>EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, I arranged a cover photo shoot to place ERIN BAKER on
>the cover. All went well, but it was overruled by the publisher. The
>next month or so, I did the same with Dave Scott before his comeback,
>but the publisher was on vacation. He then fought me every way about not
>putting Dave on the cover. That battle I won.
I've been both an editor and a publisher. I know the battles that go on
about cover subjects. I'm glad to hear that you kept fighting for what
you thought was right. Have you ever thought about polling r.s.t folks
about who they most want to a) see on the cover and b) read about? It
might give you some ammunition the next time you are in the position of
picking or selling a cover subject.
>SO NEVER JUDGE A BOOK OR MAGAZINE BY ITS COVER OR EDITOR.
I disagree. Ultimately the magazine is branded by its cover and the
editor takes the credit or the blame, whether or not he or she controlled
the selection.
--Lee ("From one who has picked 80+ magazine covers: If you are sensitive
about criticism, don't pick magazine covers") Crumbaugh
LeePu...@aol.com
Tim
> > > Dave Scott is just too damned serious, and I've always
> > >found him rather smug and arrogant.
That is why he won six Ironman World Championships. I believe it was in
'83 when he remarked to ABC "I am going to bury him on the run!"(speaking
of Tinley) he did. Is that arrogant ? Dave is "The Man" He took triathlons
to new levels;
first one to break 11 hrs
first one to break 10 hrs
first one to break 9 hrs
first one to break 8.5 hrs
he said it was possible to reach the 8 hr mark and it has been proven.
Do you find the above comments arrogant as well?
In an article describing Dave Scott...
*** You drove four hours through a horrible rainstorm to visit Bailey,
managing to find the place despite confusing directions. "I remember Dave
walking into my room," smiles Bailey. "It was like sunshine."He looked so
healthy , and he had this big smile. I'm thinking what am I going to say
to Dave Scott ?" It wasn't more than a minute and I was at ease. I can't
even tell you what we talked about. Just seeing him was enough. What I do
remember is that
he stayed for a long time. And there was this special feeling ... I could
seeit in his eyes. It was like he wanted to get me up and out of there all
by himself."
(Bailey was in hospital following an accident, He is a former motocross
racer and nowappears on the wheelchair racing circuit)
Tim
only true Dave Scott fans rinse their cottage cheese.
anders randrup III
Rob Holt wrote:
> Any triathlete who also owns a bar is bound to have an interesting
> perspective on the sport. Can't wait!
>
She owns a bar? Where? I gotta go there. Anyone for an off season RST
meeting this winter? How's about a bar workout... if your not sure what
that is you train too hard! The intervals are great!!!!
> >
> >"REAL Triathletes don't draft!"
Anders
MCMEAT1
I guess we have to thank bill for a lot why what would we have done
without scott molina on the cover shaving his legs ? this is the same guy
who wanted to put my wife on the cover naked with a body painting, Bill
puts on the cover what he think wiil sell I guess we dont all think the
same as bill.Bill what would we have done with out you?
PC
Cesar Valverde
On 8 Aug 1996, MCMEAT1 wrote:
> I guess we have to thank bill for a lot why what would we have done
(Bill) (.)(Why,)
> without scott molina on the cover shaving his legs ? this is the same guy
(Scott Molina) (legs?) (This)
> who wanted to put my wife on the cover naked with a body painting, Bill
(naked, except for body paint.)
> puts on the cover what he think wiil sell I guess we dont all think the
(thinks will) (.) (don't)
> same as bill.Bill what would we have done with out you?
(Bill. Bill,) (without)
> PC
The weak sarcasm of "what would we have done without Molina" and "what would
we have done without Bill" is further wilted by the tentative "I guess we
don't all think the same as Bill." Knot that i em w(h)enging....
CV
DIANA R. MCLAUGHLIN
In article
<Pine.SOL.3.91.960808...@rigel.oac.uci.edu> Cesar
Valverde wrote:
>On 8 Aug 1996, MCMEAT1 wrote:
>
Stuff correcting MCMEAT1's writing SNIPPED!
>
>The weak sarcasm of "what would we have done without Molina" and
"what
> would
>we have done without Bill" is further wilted by the tentative "I
guess we
>don't all think the same as Bill." Knot that i em w(h)enging....
>
>CV
Cesar,
I didn't know that we have to make sure we use correct english and
grammar on RST. I'm tired of seeing corrections of other's writing.
Maybe the person is from another country and has difficulty with
english. Or maybe they don't want to spend much time online and
type quickly. Whatever the case, I think we have better things to
focus on.
Diana McLaughlin
Paulo Ferreira de Sousa
Cesar Valverde wrote:
>
> On 8 Aug 1996, MCMEAT1 wrote:
>
> (Bill) (.)(Why,)
>
> > without scott molina on the cover shaving his legs ? this is the same guy
> (Scott Molina) (legs?) (This)
>
> > who wanted to put my wife on the cover naked with a body painting, Bill
> (naked, except for body paint.)
>
> > puts on the cover what he think wiil sell I guess we dont all think the
> (thinks will) (.) (don't)
>
> > same as bill.Bill what would we have done with out you?
> (Bill. Bill,) (without)
>
> > PC
>
> we have done without Bill" is further wilted by the tentative "I guess we
> don't all think the same as Bill." Knot that i em w(h)enging....
>
> CV
Please do Cesar!
Am I the only one who admires Michellie Jones a lot more since PC
started to post on RST ?
John Walker
--
John Walker Jackson & Tull Chartered Engineers, Seabrook, Maryland
email: jn...@rs733.gsfc.nasa.gov, john...@jnt.com, or wal...@cs.stanford.edu
WWW URL: http://xenon.stanford.edu/~walker
John Walker
After my last (empty) attempt, let's try again.
Diana McLaughlin (DBMc...@gnn.com) wrote:
> I didn't know that we have to make sure we use correct english and
> grammar on RST.
Pg vpitdr upi fpm
t/ Kpdy dpm
y rc[rvy yp nr imfrtdyppf/
Oops! I just discovered that my fingers were shifted on the keyboard,
but I'm in too much of a hurry to correct it now. I'm sure all of
you can figure out what I had to say.
...
If I were to just leave it at that, would you just ignore my post?
What if you thought I had something worthwhile to say (a long shot,
I know) and wanted to read it? Would you consider it an insult that I
am implicitly saying that the few seconds it would have taken me to
correct it is so much more valuable than the few seconds each it would
take everyone else to decipher it?
I don't believe the backlash against poor spelling and grammar have
much at all to do with the spelling and grammar themselves. Instead, it
is a backlash against the apparent arrogance of a writer who doesn't care
enough about the readers to make an effort to be easily understood.
I believe this is why I have seen so few non-native English speakers targeted
this way. In such cases, it is usually quite evident that the writer has
tried very hard to convey their message. So while the grammar and spelling
is not perfect, the effort is clearly there (and their English grammar
is certainly much better than my grammar would be in any other language).
As to being concerned about connect time, I would hope that anyone
who can connect has also figured out that it is possible to compose
messages off-line.
Now, I'm not going to flame anyone for poor grammar or spelling. I don't
even think twice about a few mistakes now and then (everyone is probably
guilty of this). But I will make the plea, "If it's important enough to
say, isn't it important enough to say well?"
-- John
PS - Translation of the above "finger shifted" quote:
"Of course you don't. Just don't expect to be understood."
Tricia Richter
In response to John's post (below):
Hear, hear!
Thank you, John. I was rather uncomfortable with Diana's sort of
finger-wagging at Cesar. His whole point was not to bitch about the poor
spelling & grammar, but to point out that it doesn't help a POOR message
to be presented poorly. One might give it a little more serious attention
is the original writer would take the time to present it better.
In article <4unq0s$q...@Radon.Stanford.EDU>, wal...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
(John Walker) wrote:
Tri-Baby
_
- o
' - __o - </\_
` ' - \< - __/\
/\o_ - (()) (()) - /
^^^^^^^^^^
"REAL Triathletes don't draft!"
Kazez
Whaddya know? It's a real word, spelled whinge. On page 30 of
"Tracks" written by Robyn Davidson, she says "Arrogant p...k, I
thought. Miserable, lousy, tight, obsessional, whingeing little creep."
I think its usage is pretty local. The author is Australian.
Ruth Kazez
ex...@psu.edu
Rolf Arands
tri...@forsythe.stanford.edu (Tricia Richter) writes:
>In response to John's post (below):
>Hear, hear!
>Thank you, John. I was rather uncomfortable with Diana's sort of
>finger-wagging at Cesar. His whole point was not to bitch about the poor
>spelling & grammar, but to point out that it doesn't help a POOR message
>to be presented poorly. One might give it a little more serious attention
>is the original writer would take the time to present it better.
Well, I must side with Diana on this one. I think that publicly
correcting someone's grammar is rude and arrogant. I think that
this is insulting and counter to the whole informal nature of
the net. I didn't find that hidden message in Cesar's grammar lesson
posting. I found it to be annoying and condescending. If he meant
what Tricia wrote, then perhaps he himself was not being clear and
should be chastised since his message was not clear to all of us
as the above quoted argument implies ... ?
If clarity of message was truly Cesar's point, then we must also yell at those who don't hit carriage returns at the end of lines, or else the lines are
interrupted by
short lines due to different line lengths among different computer systems'
screen editors
and formats of the various newsreaders.
Perhaps we should chastise them for using different computer
systems that make their messages unclear.
And while we're at it, I suppose we should be correcting those
who don't delete lines of text from messages to which they are
replying. After all there is an excess of words to read.
>
>
>
In the USENET protocol that I have read it is explicitly stated
that correcting grammar publicly is generally considered rude,
right up there with spamming and posting someone's message
without his/her consent.
-Rolf
--
Rolf "Ironman" Arands, PhD in ChEng
"This above all, to thine own self be true."
Steven Paul Adelman
Hey buddy, Your forgetting somthing...I am Dislexic and spelling and
grammer are things that don't come to me at all. If I stopped to check
every word I can't figure out how to spell I would never write anything.
It is people like you who make me not want to post. it's not that I don't
have anything worthwhile to say, it's that when it comes down to it,
people like you will just flame my misspellings and miss the point of the
message completely. I for one have never seen a post where the meaning
was missed because of spelling or grammer error's. If these type's of
error's give you troubles maybe you should spend a little less type with a
dictionary and grammer checker and a little more type improving your
deductive reasoning.
SPA
JWalth1590
And who says that the 'net will be the death of writing? It breathes new
life into this aspect of written communication. Only the reader can
decide if spelling, grammar, word selection and phrasing (not to mention
content) reveal the writer.
Byron
J. Byron Walthall, Jr.
Charlotte, NC, USA
Paul Big Ears Menon
> I don't believe the backlash against poor spelling and grammar have
> much at all to do with the spelling and grammar themselves. Instead, it
> is a backlash against the apparent arrogance of a writer who doesn't care
> enough about the readers to make an effort to be easily understood.
I agree. However, I find it a cheap shot when people nit pick about the
occasional mis-spelt word, especially when the real spelling is in doubt.
Take for example "wenge" :-). An alleged true blue Australian attempted
to stick it up Katherine William's nose, only to use "winge" instead of whinge.
That left me fuming because:
(i) Katherine's "error" was through an attempt to convert an aural
message into script (albeit from a Kiwi source :-)), with no
written reference. If the corrective poster genuinely wished to
correct Katherine, he/she would have mailed her in private. It appeared
that this person was just out to score points.
(ii) It isn't good form to publicly correct people's spelling or grammar
(see above and general netiquette).
(ii) The twit didn't bother finding out what the real spelling was! I would
have left it alone, but for the fact he/she was being a smart arse.
Consider me a meta nit-picker.
> I believe this is why I have seen so few non-native English speakers
> targeted this way. In such cases, it is usually quite evident that the
> writer has tried very hard to convey their message. So while the grammar
> and spelling is not perfect, the effort is clearly there (and their
> English grammar is certainly much better than my grammar would be in any
> other language).
> Now, I'm not going to flame anyone for poor grammar or spelling. I don't
> even think twice about a few mistakes now and then (everyone is probably
> guilty of this). But I will make the plea, "If it's important enough to
> say, isn't it important enough to say well?"
OK, here's where I'll probably get flamed. I'm in an educational environment.
We have a huge number of non native speaking students (and a huger number
of supposed English speaking students). When I see repeated spelling
or grammar errors from the same source (especially from a faculty member!),
I endeavour to correct the situation - privately. I cringe every time I
see the following errors from University staff (and to a lesser extent
students):
it's <-> its, your <-> you're, there <-> they're <-> their
missle <- missile (very much MacDonald's culture)
affect <-> effect (confusing to many)
The reason? Not totally snobbery - non English speaking students use those
who *are* "fluent" as role models. What I do not want is the propagation of
such (lazy) habits or errors. Consider it damage control :-) Again,
I try to do this privately. I am also open to correction.
Lazy composition is one thing, and I suppose we'd also complain if an
article was in UPPER-CASE. But to do so publicly reeks of point scoring.
What's wrong with (private) email? At times I tend to take the Micky out of
a piece of text, using alternate interpretrations or double entendres, but
it's an attempt at fun, that's all (which I s'pose is also point scoring).
Did anyone attempt to contact MCMEAT privately? He is new to the net and may
not be aware of the "sophisticated" demands being placed on RST articles.
--
Paul Menon
Marty Miller
I'm away for a month or so and this is the kind of stuff I've missed??? Who
cares if you have trouble spelling or don't have your Elements of Style beside
your computer? I cannot begin to count the number of e-mails I've received
from triathletes around the world who have found my web site. Many have
difficulty with English, and I do not know any other languages. I read their
messages intently, and decipher when needed. It has never distracted from the
message they are conveying to me, nor has it ever caused me to demean them in
any way. When I read unfounded or rude comments on the other hand...
-----------------------------
Marty Miller
tri...@one.net
Proprietor of The Triathlete's Web
http://w3.one.net/~triweb