David Simpson (overall 8. at IM Roth) DQed for cheating
Arthur Dent
As Triathlete germany reports, the overall 8th, David Simpson from
England, has been DQed for cheating. As you might remember, Simpson
finished surprisingly in 8hrs 25 mins at IM Roth, leaving several pros
behind. Now Simpson has been diqualified because of cheating. Analysis
of video tapes, statements of referees and examination of the electronic
surveillance system showed, that Simpson apeared at none of 6
checkpoints on the marathon. Video tapes show him in the middle of the
pack while biking, but he arrived at T2 after a 4 hr 20 min bike ride (8
mins faster than Luc van Lierde and 5 mins faster than Lothar Leder). It
was concluded that Simpson took a shortcut during the bike ride.
Imagine, this guy was hard-boiled enough to show up at the party and
receive his prize ! What a poor charakter. I´m really sorry for that
guy.
Hannes
FreasWL
>As Triathlete germany reports, the overall 8th, David Simpson from
>England, has been DQed for cheating.
Nice. Way to go David "Rosie Ruiz" Simpson. Looks like all those RST'ers
in Florida were right 'eh!
I think it's now safe to flame this guy to pieces...and I'm sure we will!
Wes Freas
Iron Pete
>Wasn't he the guy that people had said cheated at a gulf coast this
>year?
>Psycho Fred
Yeah, and the fact that he gained an Ironman slot out of Gulf Coast was
the subject of intense debate here about a month and a half ago. When this
news about being DQ'ed about 3 weeks ago came through, there should have
been an investigation in Florida to look into Simpson's alleged cheating
over there as well. I know they didn't have cameras on the course and no
hard evidence will be found, but if a lot of circumstantial evidence can
be dug up against him, then USA Triathlon can have the power to DQ the guy
also. He did take one of those IMH slots away for someone who deserves it
more, so I have no mercy for him.
"Iron" Pete Priolo
Sub 10 hour IMC'97
---Countdown: 9 days until D-Day!!!
Charles J Crawford
Iron Pete (iron...@aol.com) wrote:
: Yeah, and the fact that he gained an Ironman slot out of Gulf Coast was
: the subject of intense debate here about a month and a half ago. When this
: news about being DQ'ed about 3 weeks ago came through, there should have
: been an investigation in Florida to look into Simpson's alleged cheating
: over there as well. I know they didn't have cameras on the course and no
: hard evidence will be found, but if a lot of circumstantial evidence can
: be dug up against him, then USA Triathlon can have the power to DQ the guy
: also. He did take one of those IMH slots away for someone who deserves it
: more, so I have no mercy for him.
Pete, we investigated to the best of our ability. I found that Simpson
was faster at Gulf Coast (on the bike) than anyone had ever gone before.
He was nine minutes faster than Alec Rukosuev when he set the course
record a couple of years ago. He was over fifteen minutes faster than
the three fastest guys there this year - Jay Marschall, who won the
race, James Bonney, who was the pro winner, and Troy Jacobson. I know
those guys, and I didn't think anyone could go that much faster than they
could. Still, what I *think* is really irrelevant. The fact that
Simpsons time, though improbable, was not impossible, preventedus from
taking any action there. No one saw him cut the course. There was no
verifiable evidence. There is nothing in the Rule Book, which is where I
get my authority, that allowed us (USAT) to do anything.
If the Gulf Coast performance was fraudulent, believe me, it's not the
first time we have had athletes cheat to get awards. I have a lot of
experience dealing with that (and I'm not talking about position violations).
Charlie Crawford
USAT Commissioner Of Officials
Head Referee, Gulf Coast Triathlon
Iron Pete
>Pete, we investigated to the best of our ability. I found that Simpson
>was faster at Gulf Coast (on the bike) than anyone had ever gone before.
>He was nine minutes faster than Alec Rukosuev when he set the course
>record a couple of years ago. He was over fifteen minutes faster than
>the three fastest guys there this year - Jay Marschall, who won the
>race, James Bonney, who was the pro winner, and Troy Jacobson. I know
>those guys, and I didn't think anyone could go that much faster than they
>could. Still, what I *think* is really irrelevant. The fact that
>Simpsons time, though improbable, was not impossible, preventedus from
>taking any action there. No one saw him cut the course. There was no
>verifiable evidence. There is nothing in the Rule Book, which is where I
>get my authority, that allowed us (USAT) to do anything.
>
>If the Gulf Coast performance was fraudulent, believe me, it's not the
>first time we have had athletes cheat to get awards. I have a lot of
>experience dealing with that (and I'm not talking about position
violations).
>
>Charlie Crawford
>USAT Commissioner Of Officials
>Head Referee, Gulf Coast Triathlon
>
>
Thanks for the reply Charlie. I guess that if he did cheat on the bike
course and no one saw him, then there is no way to punish him for his
actions because maybe it didn't happen (no evidence).
Although I might not like it, Simpson is rightfully innocent until proven
guilty in Florida also. I guess maybe I can be satisfied by the fact that
he did get caught in IMG and that his punishment will be that his
reputation will be harmed for the next several years at least. The fact
that everyone now will be keeping an eye on him when he enters a race will
be a sort of punishment too.
"Iron" Pete Priolo
Sub 10 hour IMC'97
---Countdown: 8 days until D-Day!!!
Jay Crooker
Arthur Dent (TRI...@t-online.de) wrote:
: As Triathlete germany reports, the overall 8th, David Simpson from
: England, has been DQed for cheating. As you might remember, Simpson
I aree with Pete that somkething needs to be done about David Simpson's
"performance"??? at Gulf Coast, and I have e-mailed Jerry Lynch three
times regarding this, but have gotten no response.....Should others in
RST-land do the same?? Should we find his phone number and give a call?? I
know he is a wierd situation, but based on all the facts drummed up here
this past month, now combined with what happened at IM Germany, I believe
he needs to do some investigating!
I think even if his Gulf Coast status remains untouched (i.e., first in
30-34), David Simpson's IMH opportunity should be viscously revoked. Isn't
this something that can be handled by the Ironman administration?? Since
IM Germany is a "sanctioned" event, shouldn't his IMH slot be
automatically revoked?
-Jay Crooker
STIDuraAce
That bastard. Well, it'll be interesting to see how he cheats at IMH. On
an out and back course there aren't any short cuts to take, especially
when there's 1400 athletes coming in the other direction to see him.
Chris Rushing
_O_
I I
I_I\/I_I
Christian
What is this cheater thinking about us real IM. I still cant believe he was
trying to go for top 10 ... hey take this stupid guy out off all IMC for
livetime not only for two years... otherwise he is planning to make better
shortcuts!
apropos, to all you finishers in roth 97 - well done!!
Christian
Dane
I think if David had any decency at all, he wouldn't even show up at
IMH.
It'll need a lot of nerve to show up after being publicly shamed like
that, so maybe a lifetime ban won't even be necessary.
Blackball him - let him know that he's brought the entire sport into
disrepute.
There's enough cheating and lying and backstabbing going on in the world
without this sort of behaviour in sports.
Dane
The Hope Foundation
Since no one can actually prove that Mr. Simpson actually cheated at
Gulf Coast (despite the highly suspcious circumstantial evidence),
withdrawing his IMH slot would not be appropriate. I think the proper
thing is for the IMH people to contact the person who lost their spot to
Mr. Simpson at Gulf Coast and give him an IMH slot. One more person in
a field of 1500 is not going to make a difference.
This allows the person who, most likely, lost their IMH spot to race
IMH. It also does not penalize Mr. Simpson for something we believe he
did, but cannot prove. If Mr. Simpson decides to show up at IMH
anyone/everyone present can give him a piece of their mind and vocalize
(to his face) their own personal view of him as a person and triathlete.
--Eric
--
Failure Is Not The Inability To Succeed;
Rather, The Unwillingness To Put Forth The Effort.
Just Tri iT!
katherine williams
About David Simpson, who was disqualified for cheating in Ironman Europe:
Before his eighth-place result was publicized last month, after the race, I had
never heard of him as a world-class, or even national-class competitor.
Last winter I culled the top 10 (and beyond in many cases) results of hundreds of
international-caliber triathlons and duathlons, all as part of research for
Triathlon Sourcebook.
My research turned up details on 660 or so pro men with national- or world-class
results. But David Simpson wasn't listed (by me), because I never saw any
world-class results by him. Not a single one for all of 1996.
Katherine Williams
Triathlon Sourcebook
Christian
I am still fascinated, ... this guy must have been waiting behind the trees
and after Luc, Juergen, Lothar and Thomas he decided to take up the race.
He cheated not only for a Hawaii slot (bad enough!) but for a top 10
ranking. What is it, this cheater must think of us real IM. Take him out of
IMC for livetime, not only for two years.
Alison Keple
Although I would be very much in favour for a lifetime ban for David
Simpson, I'm not sure it is necessary. I can't see him getting
any sponsors after his disgusting attempt at making people think he
is an elite athlete deserving of respect and admiration. If he has
any intelligence at all, he will issue a public apology, and retire from
the sport. We don't need people like him in our sport.
Alison
CHS1950
It is so unfortunate that the system in place for qualifying for IMH can
reward such a blatant and arrogant cheater with a spot to Hawaii.
How feasible would it be for all qualifying races to have one or two
video surveillance spots on the bike and run course which can later be
looked to if such an obvious result occurs. Come on Charlie, if this guy
had the fastest bike split by the margin you mentioned I believe you have
an argument regardless of what the rule book says.
I believe Ironman Corporation owes it to the athletes that each
qualifing race lives up to certain standards including accountability of
all qualifiers. At Mrs. T's , a woman in the 30-34 or 35-39 age group was
very upset that the woman collecting first place had obviously not won and
probably had only done one loop of a two loop bike course. I do not know
the outcome, but the point is the athletes should not have to worry about
this.
Ironman corporation is as much as fault as the race organizer for
letting something like this happen. As I am sure everyone can see, if a
race is given IMH qualifying status it is gauranteed that the race will
draw 25, 50 or even 100% more racers than it would otherwise. You would
therefore think that race directors would bend over backward and jump
through hoops in order to run a flawless cheat- proof race. The only
problem is that Ironman Corporation has not set forth a list of rigorous
standards that must be met in order to attain qualifier status and maybe
it is about time they do.
Does anyone have a e-mail address for Ironman Corporation? I believe we
owe it to the sport to individually write or e-mail them concerning the
David Simpson situation and see how they intend to address the problem.
Like Charlie Crawford said , it isnt the first time he's seen cheating in
a race before.
Sorry for being so long winded, it's just such a shame when something like
this happens. Sincerely, Charlie Smith
carlos...@grace.com
> I think even if his Gulf Coast status remains untouched (i.e., first in
> 30-34), David Simpson's IMH opportunity should be viscously revoked. Isn't
> this something that can be handled by the Ironman administration?? Since
> IM Germany is a "sanctioned" event, shouldn't his IMH slot be
> automatically revoked?
>
> -Jay Crooker
Does anyone know who can revoke this guy's IMH slot? I believe if it is
revoked, Lynch may not be able to award the slot to the next person in
the results. My view is based on the IH strict guidelines with slots
awarded to races.
BTW, GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE DOING CANADA THIS COMING WEEKEND!!!! SEE YOU
THERE NEXT YEAR.
Regards,
Carlos Torres de Navarra
Coral Gables, Florida
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Grant Schofield
Seems like Simpson is a bit like his namesake OJ. In reality guilty, but
no one can doo anything about it. A pity that he won't lose his Knoa spot.
If I see the guy at Kona I'll certainly give him an earful of my opinion on
his bike splits. For those of us who are fortunate enough to acheive the
qualifying standard through some lucky genetics and plenty of hard work it
seems pretty ridiculous that someone can get away with something like this.
(Dr) Grant Schofield
Qld Australia
...i wonder if he (like OJ) left a bloodied [cycling] glove at the scene!
Iron Pete <iron...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970816182...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Simon Haigh
In article <5svebe$os$1...@news01.btx.dtag.de>, TRI...@t-online.de says...
>
>As Triathlete germany reports, the overall 8th, David Simpson from
>England, has been DQed for cheating. As you might remember, Simpson
>finished surprisingly in 8hrs 25 mins at IM Roth, leaving several pros
>behind. Now Simpson has been diqualified because of cheating. Analysis
>of video tapes, statements of referees and examination of the electronic
>surveillance system showed, that Simpson apeared at none of 6
>checkpoints on the marathon. Video tapes show him in the middle of the
>pack while biking, but he arrived at T2 after a 4 hr 20 min bike ride (8
>mins faster than Luc van Lierde and 5 mins faster than Lothar Leder). It
>was concluded that Simpson took a shortcut during the bike ride.
>Imagine, this guy was hard-boiled enough to show up at the party and
>receive his prize ! What a poor charakter. I´m really sorry for that
>guy.
>Hannes
>
proven that he DELIBERATLY took the wrong course then calling him a cheater is
an unfounded (not to mention unfair) accusation. In a sport that prides itself
on giving everybody a fair go, we're being extremely hard on a guy that may
have made an honest mistake. From what I've seen, all thats been proven is that
he didn't appear to complete the course. Certainly not conclusive grounds for
calling him a cheater.
Granted, if its ever proven that it was a deliberate action then he should be
banned from the sport forever but till then I think that he should be left
alone.
Personally the question I'd like answered is "How could a cyclist in such a
major event even manage to leave the course and then re-enter the course
without ANYBODY seeing him do it?" They had to rely on the video evidence that
he didn't go through the checkpoints.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Simon Haigh, Information Consultant - Web Services Group
BHP Information Technology
151-155 King Street Warrawong NSW 2502, AUSTRALIA
Phone: +61-042-75-5570 E-mail: haigh.s...@bhp.com.au
TRNRT
Whew...
After his 4:20 bike split at IM Germany, I began to second guess myself.
I began to wonder, "maybe somebody DID pass me at Gulf Coast at 30mph and
I was so amazed, I blocked it from my conscious memory."
It's sort of ironic that this same exact incident happened again at "The
Triathlon- formally known as Fairmount Park". The only difference was
that it was handled with common sense, although it did take some
discussion and debate.
The "overall" winner of the race did a 3:45 (a half IM World record to my
knowledge) on a very technical, hilly course on a typical humid August
day. His swim split was around 29 min. and he had a good 1:26 or so run
(I think these are close). His bike split... 1:50!! Another Jan Ulrich
among the Triathlete ranks who outsplit me and some other good riders by
over 20 minutes in a Half IM (I've gotta ride more:)! This individual
from the New England area claimed that his split was legit and he did NOT
skip a loop of the 56 mile course! He was questioned by the race director
and the real winner (pro- James Curwen) myself and Jamey Yon, all of us
around 4 hrs.
He (the alleged winner) was livid. He claimed that he did the entire
course and even produced a bike computer that showed 56 miles on the trip
meter. I felt bad for the guy because he really thought that he did that
time. Again, If it turns out that he did, I will be the very first to
apologize to him publicly.
There were actually a few people who had bike splits that were impossibly
fast. Why? Because there was no one taking bike numbers on each loop!
This is another issue regarding some sort of standardization for IM
Qualifiers that should be addressed for next season! Anyway, there are
probably some people who took slots who didn't earn them because they
purposely or inadvertantly missed a loop. The only reason this guy got
DQ'ed at the end was because his name was at the top of the list and we
had a solid case against a USCF Cat. 4 rider (which he said he was) who
had previously never done a 1/2 IM riding that fast. I feel very bad
for people who may of missed a slot because someone wasn't noticed.
Bottom line is that things like this may happen more then we notice. The
David Simpson incident(s) just brings it to light. Solutions? Who knows.
Maybe we should all have to carry a list of results and athletic
backgrounds with us to major events. If someone disputes a result, we can
produce our history to prove it justified. I would do it.
Good Luck!
Troy Jacobson
Grant Schofield
Isn't it the athlete's responsibility to remain on the course? I think it
would be fairly obvious to anyone in an IM distance race if they had left
the course or not. Come on - I think he knows exactly what he did. As for
not showing up at any of the 6 run check points??
I think WTC should ban him form any of their races for life. Set down a
contingency for those who cheat.
Grant Schofield
Qld
Australia
Simon Haigh
In article <01bcac39$cf4d6340$291d...@schofieg.cqu.edu.au>, you say...
>
>
>Isn't it the athlete's responsibility to remain on the course?
> I think it
>would be fairly obvious to anyone in an IM distance race if they had left
>the course or not.
One would think so but just as an example didn't the first 2 cyclists (one of
them Thomas Hellrigel - who should have known better) miss a turnaround at
Forster this year and lost somewhere between 2-3 minutes while the officials
caught them and got them to turn around. I don't know the German course but is
it possible that a similar thing happened and that instead of riding away from
the course he actually rejoined the course futher on and didn't notice.
> Come on - I think he knows exactly what he did. As for
>not showing up at any of the 6 run check points??
>I think WTC should ban him form any of their races for life. Set down a
>contingency for those who cheat.
Don't get me wrong, I not defending the guy. If he cheated then throw the full
strength of the rule book at him. I'm just saying that until its proven, give
him a fair chance.
>Grant Schofield
>Qld
>Australia
>
AJ
aka
Elizabeth Hug
In <5t4jhs$s...@ultranews.duc.auburn.edu> cra...@mail.auburn.edu
(Charles J Crawford) writes:
>
-snip-
>
>If the Gulf Coast performance was fraudulent, believe me, it's not the
>first time we have had athletes cheat to get awards. I have a lot of
>experience dealing with that (and I'm not talking about position
violations).
>
>Charlie Crawford
>USAT Commissioner Of Officials
>Head Referee, Gulf Coast Triathlon
What kind of satisfaction can a person possibly derive from receiving a
reward by cheating??? I don't know who to feel sorrier for - the
person who deserves the award but doesn't get it because of the cheater
or the cheater him/herself who should be pitied for having such low
self-esteem and no morals?
-hug
Mario Illgen
Hi Simon,
haigh.s...@bhp.com.au (Simon Haigh) wrote:
>One would think so but just as an example didn't the first 2 cyclists (one of
>them Thomas Hellrigel - who should have known better) miss a turnaround at
>Forster this year and lost somewhere between 2-3 minutes while the officials
>caught them and got them to turn around.
>
It was Thomas first time in Australia, so he just didn't know the course...
> I don't know the German course but is
>it possible that a similar thing happened and that instead of riding away from
>the course he actually rejoined the course futher on and didn't notice.
>
Assuming it was by accident but then he could figure that something got wrong
(looking at the bike computer or checking the bike split) and decide not to attend
the award ceremony and collect the prize money...
Ciao, Mario
--
Mario Illgen, TU Chemnitz-Zwickau
"I laughed in the mirror for the first time in a year..."
CBerghoefe
How about this for a possible way to handle the Simpson situation?
1 WTC offers a slot to the competitor who lost his to Simpson at Gulf Coast.
2 Simpson is allowed to race at Kona. Since everyone will be watching
him, he will have the perfect opportunity to prove he is as fast as his
Gulf Coast/Kona splits showed him to be. If not, that confirms everyones
suspicions in a very public way.
Chuck Berghoefer
Ken
Perhaps the rules should state that if someone is found to be guilty of
fraudulent activity at any IMH qualifier of sanctioned event, he is
disqualified for all similar events within the same calendar year. Any
other ideas?
Ken
The Hope Foundation <hop...@sprynet.com> wrote in article
<33F741...@sprynet.com>...
> Since no one can actually prove that Mr. Simpson actually cheated at
> Gulf Coast (despite the highly suspcious circumstantial evidence),
> withdrawing his IMH slot would not be appropriate. I think the proper
> thing is for the IMH people to contact the person who lost their spot to
> Mr. Simpson at Gulf Coast and give him an IMH slot. One more person in
> a field of 1500 is not going to make a difference.
>
> This allows the person who, most likely, lost their IMH spot to race
> IMH. It also does not penalize Mr. Simpson for something we believe he
> did, but cannot prove. If Mr. Simpson decides to show up at IMH
> anyone/everyone present can give him a piece of their mind and vocalize
> (to his face) their own personal view of him as a person and triathlete.
>
>
> --Eric
>
> Jay Crooker wrote:
> >
> > Arthur Dent (TRI...@t-online.de) wrote:
> > : As Triathlete germany reports, the overall 8th, David Simpson from
> > : England, has been DQed for cheating. As you might remember, Simpson
> > : finished surprisingly in 8hrs 25 mins at IM Roth, leaving several
pros
> > : behind. Now Simpson has been diqualified because of cheating.
Analysis
> > : of video tapes, statements of referees and examination of the
electronic
> > : surveillance system showed, that Simpson apeared at none of 6
> > : checkpoints on the marathon. Video tapes show him in the middle of
the
> > : pack while biking, but he arrived at T2 after a 4 hr 20 min bike ride
(8
> > : mins faster than Luc van Lierde and 5 mins faster than Lothar Leder).
It
> > : was concluded that Simpson took a shortcut during the bike ride.
> > : Imagine, this guy was hard-boiled enough to show up at the party and
> > : receive his prize ! What a poor charakter. I´m really sorry for that
> > : guy.
> > : Hannes
> >
> > I aree with Pete that somkething needs to be done about David Simpson's
> > "performance"??? at Gulf Coast, and I have e-mailed Jerry Lynch three
> > times regarding this, but have gotten no response.....Should others in
> > RST-land do the same?? Should we find his phone number and give a
call?? I
> > know he is a wierd situation, but based on all the facts drummed up
here
> > this past month, now combined with what happened at IM Germany, I
believe
> > he needs to do some investigating!
> > I think even if his Gulf Coast status remains untouched (i.e., first in
> > 30-34), David Simpson's IMH opportunity should be viscously revoked.
Isn't
> > this something that can be handled by the Ironman administration??
Since
> > IM Germany is a "sanctioned" event, shouldn't his IMH slot be
> > automatically revoked?
> >
> > -Jay Crooker
>
Chris Carpenter
Hi there,
I am with Joel on this one, I really don't like the lynch mob attitude
towards David Simpson. I have read in Triathlete magazine that he had
the fastest bike split at Munchie last year and the 8th fastest at Roth
last year. Is it not just posssible that he might JUST be a fast biker?
Also I really find it hard to believe that he could 'skipped' the course
at Roth, I mean woth 250,000 spectators lining the course, I don't think
so. Let the man speak, would be disgusted to hear if the guy gets
harrased at IMH over his spot.
Chris
--
Chris Carpenter at the Max-Planck-Insitut fuer Polymerforschung
email: car...@mpip-mainz.mpg.de : Duathlon is==>run..bike..run
voice: +49 6131 379217 : Quintana Roo, Just Roo it!!!
fax: +49 6131 379100 : Saucony, Loyal to the sport
www: http://www.mpip-mainz.mpg.de/~carpent
ex...@psu.edu
(Bill: are you lurking here? You should be talking about Simpson, not
I.)
Bill and V. were having lunch sometime between IM Roth and the award
ceremonies when David Simpson, whom they had never met, came to their
table, sat down, and gave a long story about the race and the
accusations. His speech appeared heartfelt and he was close to tears.
B and V felt entirely sympathetic. Also they were impressed that a
body seemingly devoid of superior mechanical advantage could have done
so well. Anyway, he won them over sufficiently so they were surprised
and confused by the actions of the first seven placers who walked off
when 8th place finisher Simpson was called up.
This story suggests to me that Simpson, if he is guilty of cutting the
course, may be lying and cheating not to the world but to himself. He
might very well believe he has done the course, whether or not he has.
If so, he gets my sympathy for sure.
Ruth Kazez
ex...@psu.edu
TriGuy
CBerghoefe wrote:
This guy would have to be pretty ballzi to show his face in Kona. Which
brings up another interesting question. Has his IQ slot for Kona been
withdrawn? Doubtful since he won it at Gulf Coast and DQ'ed in Roth.
While RST knows he probably cheated at Gulf Coast there hasn't been a
word written in any Tri publications about him or his DQ at Roth.
Could be interesting if he shows his face in Kona.
Bernie Sher