CYCLIST and Legendary Sportscar driver hit and Killed in Florida
Tom Price
common with us, his death on the roads of Florida (Which leads the US in
cycling deaths BTW) only underscores the stupidity of placing our USAT training
center there.
Godspeed Bob
Tom P
See Speedvision article at
http://www.speedvision.com/pub/articles/racing/06road/010317f.html
Fred Sommer
It is always sad to hear of the loss of a cyclist on our roadways,
especially here in Florida.
I'm not sure what his death has to do with the "stupidity of placing our
USAT training center there". Florida does lead the nation in bicycle
deaths, but that does not mean that cycling is dangerous in all areas of the
state. Sebring is two hours south of Clermont, the home of the USAT
Training Center. Bob was struck and killed on a major east-west highway
close to Sebring International Speedway. I have traveled HWY 98 and I would
not even think of riding a bicycle on it. This is race week down in Sebring
and it is dangerous to even be in a car near the speedway.
As someone who is actively involved in cycling related issues at the state
and county level, I can tell you that very few of the deaths involve
recreation cyclists. You would be surprised to see how many deaths involve
cyclists that are riding under the influence. Florida's year round cycling
weather and rapid growth also contribute to the large number of deaths.
I encourage everyone to get involved in cycling related issues in your
community or state. You can make a difference.
Fred Sommer
"Tom Price" <mayaw...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010318003442...@ng-md1.aol.com...
Brian Wagner
>
> common with us, his death on the roads of Florida (Which leads the US in
> cycling deaths BTW) only underscores the stupidity of placing our USAT training
> center there.
Could it be that they lead in cycling deaths because they lead in
cycling? It's always good cycling weather there. Statistics are
dangerous when wielded carelessly and without understanding them.
Marty Gaal
respect for cyclists out in CA (when I was there anyway), while here in FL the
drivers consider us a nuisance and treat us as such. Add to that the large number of
retirees, very few cycling lanes (but that's a problem everywhere), and drunks (don't
forget FL is the playland of the US).
The area in question, Clermont (where the training center is located) and it's
surrounding towns, have a lower population and, for the most part, the people are
aware that lots of cyclists are in the area. However, they are developing the area
at a rapid pace and unless that is limited, then the area will be just as bad as the
rest of the state in 10-15 years.
I'm all for having the training center here because it will ramp up the level of
athletes and competition in the area, but I'm pissed that the developers in this
state are totally out of control. For shame...
Marty
Robert H. Diday, Jr.
unfamiliar with the problems. The roads are narrow, the drivers
frequently speed, are occasionally on drugs or alcohol, and are
often uninsured (I believe Florida has the highest uninsured motorist
rate in the nation.). Rt. 50 from Orlando to Ocoee has some narrow
spots and the sand trucks, whose drivers are paid per load, fly
through Ocoee and West Orlando on 50. I was struck once by one of them
and fortunately not seriously injured. (He clipped my handlebar.) I
was also struck by an uninsured, uncoordinated, unlicensed, and
uncooperative female in a pickup truck 3 years ago. Broke my back in
two places, and cracked 7 teeth. I've lost 4 of the teeth and wasn't
able to start running seriously again until last September.
The old people aren't a problem on Florida's roads.
The problems are:
1. A lack of money and resources at the State and County levels to
fund separate bike lanes for cyclists;
2. A general sense that bikers are second class citizens and that real
men drive pickup trucks and NEVER wear lycra (this ain't Cali);
3. A lack of commitment to public safety in terms of educating the
public about the rights of cyclists and educating cyclists about their
duties.
4. A large population of people who have lost their licenses, or never
got one, but drive anyway.
5. Too much traffic for a lot of narrow, old, and poorly maintained
roads. (But Florida does not have the worst roads in the nation, by
far.)
I hope Fred doesn't stick his head in the sand on this bike lane
issue. Clermont has an opportunity to put up some safe areas to
support our sport, but much more needs to be accomplished. Although
roads around Clermont are still fairly safe, the place is growing
rapidly. Bike lane rights of way should be purchased by the State and
County for as many local roads as possible and as soon as possible.
The small bike path in West Orange County is a step in the right
direction, but is also an attempt to avoid putting cyclists on the
roads where they have a right to be. Bike lanes should be built on the
roads, in my view.
Clermont is a great spot for USAT, although I was born in Colorado
Springs and am partial to it. Clermont is NOT the rest of Florida,
but soon will be unless the city gets its act together. Let's hope
USAT and guys like Fred can continue to be successful in promoting our
sport's SAFETY.
-Robert
"Tactics is knowing what to do when there is something to do.
Strategy is knowing what to do when there is nothing to do."
- Savielly Tartakover, Chess Grandmaster
John Hansen
>Date: 3/24/01 10:13 PM Easte
>The old people aren't a problem on Florida's roads.
>
you have got to be kidding, We are in the land of the driving dead. Old people
ARE a problem in Florida. and our licensing policies do not help. just send in
your $$ and you get a sticker to update your license, "one" could be legaly
blind here and still obtain a legal license.
>1. A lack of money and resources at the State and County levels to
>fund separate bike lanes for cyclists;
again not so, every city and county in this state has munincipal golf courses,
the resources to maintain a golf course for 1 year would build miles and miles
of lanes.
>2. A general sense that bikers are second class citizens and that real
>men drive pickup trucks and NEVER wear lycra (this ain't Cali
finally something accurate...
>3. A lack of commitment to public safety in terms of educating the
>public about the rights of cyclists and educating cyclists about their
>duties.
again something true
>The small bike path in West Orange County is a step in the right
>direction, but is also an attempt to
actually orange county is celebrating 100 miles of multi use pathways,, not
really intended for "cyclists" to train on. but useful for commuting and
families.
john
John Hansen Sarasota Fl.
Jhans...@aol.com
Robert H. Diday, Jr.
What evidence do you have that old people are a problem? How many
bikers have been killed by old people? I've only been hit by 20-40
year olds. Most of the really atrocious driving I see is by young
males (although young females have done their best to catch them) who
drive like they have NO brains. Few of the Gen Xers drive the speed
limit, have discovered the joys of turn signals, or learned where the
brake pedal is located. Go to traffic court and take a look at the
scofflaws queing up to receive their punishment. Old people are scarce
in traffic court. And they are a large percentage of the population.
Old people obey the traffic laws, unlike the Gen Xers who think the
roads were built just for them and they are the only ones on them.
Fortunately, we won't have an old person problem in 20-30 years
because the Gen Xers will have self-immolated on the highways.
The licensing policies in Florida are lenient, but that's why we still
have so many completely brain dead Gen Xers still driving and killing
people. Why people shouldn't lose their driver's license after the
second speeding ticket in a year is beyond my ken. That may be the
best way to get more bike riders on the highways.
All cities and counties DON'T run golf courses in Florida, but that
misses the point, which is this is a democracy and the citizens are
entitled to golf courses if that's what THEY want to pay for. We don't
have the money to do everything, and bike lanes are very low on the
political agenda. I'd rather have bike lanes than golf courses but I
prefer our republican form of democracy to whatever political system
you seem to think might work better.
If you want bike lanes, instead of golf courses, what are you doing
about it? Bitching in rec.sport. triathlon? You are lucky to have the
bike trail down there in Tampa/St.Pete. Most of the state is not so
lucky. Put your skills to work helping Fred and USTA to find the money
to get bike lanes put in in Clermont and the rest of the state. And
quit blaming old people who like to play golf. Most of them died in
two world wars so you'd have the right to bitch. They can play golf
all they want and drive till they are 190 as far as I'm concerned.
-Robert
On 25 Mar 2001 12:52:25 GMT, jhans...@aol.compost (John Hansen)
wrote:
"Tactics is knowing what to do when there is something to do.
Mike Tennent
>>From: "Robert H. Diday, Jr." rdi...@cfl.rr.com
>>Date: 3/24/01 10:13 PM Easte
>
>
>>1. A lack of money and resources at the State and County levels to
>>fund separate bike lanes for cyclists;
>
>again not so, every city and county in this state has munincipal golf courses,
>the resources to maintain a golf course for 1 year would build miles and miles
>of lanes.
>
That's not a real good analogy. The municipal golf courses are not
free so they pay for themselves (or a substantial part) or even make a
profit. Or are you advocating paying tolls for bike lanes? <g>
There is (or was) a FL state law that required the addition of a bike
lane when State roads were re-paved. The intent was to gradually add
bike lanes to all state roads as part of their routine maintenance. It
didn't apply to county/city roads, tho, which is where a lot of biking
is done. Did Baby-Bush, Jr. do away with that law?
Mike Tennent
"IronPenguin"
Ironman Canada '98
Great Floridian '99, '00
timhigdogspot
>I've been struck three times by trucks on Florida roads.
<snip>
>The old people aren't a problem on Florida's roads.
My experience is that the old people are the problem. I have also been hit 3
times on Florida roads each time was by an old man in a large sedan, all well
over 60, all feeble minded, all at fault. Alot of the voters here are old and
the govt. knows this and caters to them. Stricter laws on who should be
driving, retesting old drivers more often are the first things that need to be
done in FL. The other problmes you mention, congestion, narrow roads, poor
attitudes are also issues but it's the large old folk population in FL that
distinguishes FL as the most dangerous place in the country (if not the world)
for Bike riding.
Tim
buaidh no bas
John Hansen
>
>What evidence do you have that old people are a problem? How many
>bikers have been killed by old people? I've only been hit by 20-40
>year olds. Most of the really
I drive here daily, sure the Gen Xers as you call them drive scary,,, at high
rates of speed. The elderly drive 20 MPH below the limit, in the left lane,
usually stop in the road to turn right into parking lights, soometimes turn
left in to the oncoming traffic into oncoming traffic.
>The licensing policies in Florida are lenient, but that's why we still
>have so many completely brain dead Gen Xers still driving and killing
I work retail I frequently see elderly get out of the car waddle to the door
and be unable to open the door.
they cannot see, their hearing is shot, ask any local fireman about the old
peole that see the firetruck speeding toward them and stop dead in the middle
of the road,
>Why people shouldn't lose their driver's license after the
>second speeding ticket in a year is beyond my ken. That may be the
>best way to get mo
Why people who cannot hear or see have a license is beyond me.
>money to do everything, and bike lanes are very low on the
>political agenda. I'd rather have bike lanes than golf courses but I
>prefer our republican form of democracy to whatever political
funny those same golf courses are full of the politicians every lunch hour,
>If you want bike lanes, instead of golf courses, what are you doing
>about it? Bitching in rec.sport. triathlon? You are lucky to have the
>bike trail down there in Tampa/St.Pete. Most of the state is not so
>lucky. Put your skills to work helping Fred and USTA to find the money
>to get bike lanes put in in Clerm
you have no idea what I may or may not do to support bike lanes in the state of
florida
Robert you really seem angry, you sound like my father he had hatred for
anyone "X" amount of years older and younger than he...
I suggest you seek help perhaps try St. Johns wort....
Robert H. Diday, Jr.
You need to stop training at night in your retirement village. :)
What do you pay a year for insurance? I pay $500, about, per year for
two vehicles. I'll bet yours is twice as high. Why?
Hansen:
You have managed to turn a discussion about the need for bike lanes in
Florida into a rodomontade against golfing politicians. You get the
bikers' bi-polar disorder award for the month of March.
I doubt Wolcott was killed by an old person. He was probably killed by
some drunk, cigarette smoking race car fan about age 30.
Don't trust anyone under 50! :)
-Robert
On 27 Mar 2001 01:33:26 GMT, slater...@aol.comram2k
(timhigdogspot) wrote:
"Tactics is knowing what to do when there is something to do.
John Hansen
>some drunk, cigarette smoking race car fan about age 30.
>
>Don't trust anyone under 50! :)
>
The driver of the car who killed him was 88 years old. check your facts
Robert H. Diday, Jr.
Do you have a cite for that news?
88 is a little old, yes. If true, it is doubly tragic.
But your point isn't proven. The vast majority of accidents are caused
by males under the age of 50.
Several years ago a 90 year old man who had just had double bypass
surgery and purchased a new Cadillac to celebrate his recovery hit me
in a parking lot, ending the life of a very old station wagon,
mercifully. He was so old and decrepit he couldn't get out of the car.
His daughter was very apologetic, but I couldn't believe the guy was
driving. He was wearing coke bottle bottoms for glasses. Now those
guys definitely shouldn't be driving unless they can pass a driving
test. If those are the people you mean, then, yes, I agree they
shouldn't be driving. But the vast majority of accidents, deaths, and
traffic violations are by much younger people, who act as though they
don't know any better.
Anyway, this entire discussion is off point. The original poster's
point that USTA shouldn't have moved to Clermont because of the high
incidence of bicycle accidents in the state is not well-founded in my
view. (Although Colorado wouldn't have been a bad place to stay.)But
much needs to be done to make our roads safe for cyclists. And
Clermont is hardly immune or so country that we have nothing to worry
about when cycling there. But, for the race, I've noticed a very heavy
police presence. Their cooperation has been essential, I'm sure, in
keeping the racers safe from drivers who try to get on the course.
Please take some of those golfer politicians to lunch and give them
our point of view about the way tax dollars should be spent. The vast
majority of us here can only do the same. With the exception of
Wagner, none of us are politicians. :) !!
-Robert
On 28 Mar 2001 17:29:23 GMT, jhans...@aol.compost (John Hansen)
wrote:
>>I doubt Wolcott was killed by an old person. He was probably killed by
"Tactics is knowing what to do when there is something to do.
timhigdogspot
>Tim:
>You need to stop training at night in your retirement village. :)
I wish I could ride at night, though it is obviously out of the question around
here (except on the trails!)
>What do you pay a year for insurance? I pay $500, about, per year for
>two vehicles. I'll bet yours is twice as high. Why?
I'm guessing your point is I'm young and pay more because young people are more
dangerous drivers? I'm 34 and pay a hair under $500 FWIW. My point is 5 out
of 6 times I have a near crash(or crash) it is an old person to blame. I am
not across the board saying old people are bad drivers, just suggesting they
need to tested and retested much more, for obvious reseons (aging sucks).
>I doubt Wolcott was killed by an old person.
He was.
>He was probably killed by
>some drunk, cigarette smoking race car fan about age 30.
Another dangerours group of bad drivers.
>Don't trust anyone under 50! :)
Don't trust anyone over 30!
Oops wait that includes me. Hey and no more lumping me in with Hansen:)
John Hansen
>Oops wait that includes me. Hey and no more lumping me in with Hansen:)
>
>
hey now.....