Serve speed analysis - Graf vs. current top players

[calim...@gmx.de]

Steffi Graf served with 162 km/h on average (1st serve) in the first four rounds in Wimbledon 1999 (according to stats which were shown on TV at the start of the qf match against V. Williams)

What about the current top players?
Here are the data from the AO 2017 - average first serve speed per match of the 10 top seeds:
S. Williams 167 175 172 167 171 170 166 170
Kerber 147 133 140 151
Radwanska 146 148
Halep 148
Cibulkova 152 151 147
Muguruza 157 160 160 162 160
Pliskova 169 162 165 162 165
Kuznetsova 151 141 153 151
Konta 161 161 168 167 164
Suarez-Navarro 144 134

So Serena served about 8 km/h (5 mph) faster than Steffi with old equipment 18 years ago.
Pliskova and Konta about 3 km/h (2 mph) faster.
Muguruza as fast as Steffi.
The rest not even close ....

Now imagine Steffi with current racket technology!


Max


--
"This would have been her time."
(Capriati on Steffi Graf)

[bob]

lot of numbers there, but 23 > 22. sadly.

bob

[calim...@gmx.de]

One Golden Grand Slam (with 4 slam titles) is more than 5 slam wins against Muguruza, Safarova, Radwanska types.

But what about the serve speed? Nothing to say there?


Max

[bob]

? i'm not going to slam graf, she was my favorite player. i read the
serve speeds, but so what?

serena got that 23rd, is what it is.

would be great to see peak graf go against peak serena, but can't have
everything.

bob

[stephenJ]

On 2/12/2017 11:01 AM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> Steffi Graf served with 162 km/h on average (1st serve) in the first four rounds in Wimbledon 1999 (according to stats which were shown on TV at the start of the qf match against V. Williams)

LMAO!

You can't say "rackets and strings" when Venus and Serena, still
teenagers who hadn't peaked in power, were already hitting serves WAY
faster than Graf in 1998-1999!!! Same rackets and strings !!!

Same rackets, and Serena, just 17 years old and not anywhere near peak
power, in 1999 hit a 118 mph serve, 10 mph faster than ANY serve graf
ever hit in the entire 1990s!

Graf didn't serve any faster than SELES !!!! Even less actually!

Serena averaged 109 MPH in Wimbledon final last year! Graf's FASTEST
serve she EVER HIT DURING THE ENTIRE 1990s was 107.9 MPH!!!!

Are you kidding me?

Are you that dumb?

BYE BYE Steffi !!!!




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[soccerfan777]

Good point Max. But Stephen is hellbent on trolling on this topic. Just stop feeding him. Anyone who thinks Graf had a weak serve is plain retarded.

[stephenJ]

> On 2/12/2017 12:33 PM, soccerfan777 wrote:
> Good point Max.

Max's point is so false and stupid that rajarocker thinks he has a good
point. LMAO!

[calim...@gmx.de]

On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 7:30:17 PM UTC+1, StephenJ wrote:
> On 2/12/2017 11:01 AM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> > Steffi Graf served with 162 km/h on average (1st serve) in the first four rounds in Wimbledon 1999 (according to stats which were shown on TV at the start of the qf match against V. Williams)
>
> LMAO!
>
> You can't say "rackets and strings" when Venus and Serena, still
> teenagers who hadn't peaked in power, were already hitting serves WAY
> faster than Graf in 1998-1999!!! Same rackets and strings !!!
>
> Same rackets, and Serena, just 17 years old and not anywhere near peak
> power, in 1999 hit a 118 mph serve, 10 mph faster than ANY serve graf
> ever hit in the entire 1990s!
>
> Graf didn't serve any faster than SELES !!!! Even less actually!
>
> Serena averaged 109 MPH in Wimbledon final last year! Graf's FASTEST
> serve she EVER HIT DURING THE ENTIRE 1990s was 107.9 MPH!!!!
>

Steffi hit 110 mph in the 1996 Wimbledon final. With standard rackets.
She had several tournaments with a 100plus mph average.
Most current top players don't reach that average speed although they play with widebody rackets.

So your suggestion that Steffi would not be able to cope with the current power tennis is thoroughly debunked.

Even Serena average is only about 5 mph higher than Steffi's with her old racket. Today Steffi plays with a widebody racket that allows considerably faster top speeds. The difference in average speed is not very big, however.But you are too dumb to unterstand why this is the case. Since you don't play tennis quite obviously.

Max

[calim...@gmx.de]

On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 7:36:27 PM UTC+1, StephenJ wrote:
> > On 2/12/2017 12:33 PM, soccerfan777 wrote:
> > Good point Max.
>
> Max's point is so false and stupid that rajarocker thinks he has a good
> point. LMAO!
>
>

The point is that 1999 Steffi had a faster first serve speed than the current top ten.
Although she played with a standard racket while todays player use widebody rackets with which you can generate a higher top soeed.

What is so difficult to understand here?

So your suggestion that Steffi would have no chance against todays "big girls" is utter nonsense. Your nationalistic Graf hate is disgusting. No wonder that people like you vote for someone like Trump. Ugly people ...


Max

[stephenJ]

On 2/12/2017 1:10 PM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 7:30:17 PM UTC+1, StephenJ wrote:
>> On 2/12/2017 11:01 AM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
>>> Steffi Graf served with 162 km/h on average (1st serve) in the first four rounds in Wimbledon 1999 (according to stats which were shown on TV at the start of the qf match against V. Williams)
>>
>> LMAO!
>>
>> You can't say "rackets and strings" when Venus and Serena, still
>> teenagers who hadn't peaked in power, were already hitting serves WAY
>> faster than Graf in 1998-1999!!! Same rackets and strings !!!
>>
>> Same rackets, and Serena, just 17 years old and not anywhere near peak
>> power, in 1999 hit a 118 mph serve, 10 mph faster than ANY serve graf
>> ever hit in the entire 1990s!
>>
>> Graf didn't serve any faster than SELES !!!! Even less actually!
>>
>> Serena averaged 109 MPH in Wimbledon final last year! Graf's FASTEST
>> serve she EVER HIT DURING THE ENTIRE 1990s was 107.9 MPH!!!!

> Steffi hit 110 mph in the 1996 Wimbledon final

Bwahahahaahha !!! The stats are against you Steffi lover!

More desperate alternafacts from Max!

1996 IDS listings (center court)
(in MPH/KPH)

1. Brenda Schultz-McCarthy 121.8/196 Australian Open
2. Jana Novotna 115/185 US Open
3. Debbie Graham 111/178.6 US Open
4. Li Chen* 110.6/178 Olympics
4. Melanie Schnell 110.6/178 Roland Garros
6. Mariaan de Swardt 110/177 US Open
6. Ludmilla Richterova 110/177 US Open
8. Kristie Boogert 109.4/176 Australian Open
9. Steffi Graf 108/173.8 US Open
9. Miriam Oremans 108/173.8 Wimbledon

Bye Bye Steffi !!!!!

[calim...@gmx.de]

The 1996 TV broadcast said otherwise. 110 mph instead of 108 mph.

But what about the fact that Steffi with her old racket served faster on average in Wimbledon 1999 than most top 10 players with their modern widebody rackets at the AO 2017?
Nothing to say here?

Thought so ...


Max

[stephenJ]

Bwahawahawa! OFFICIAL stats!

You keep yapping about rackets and strings when 1999 stats show Serena
hitting top serve *10 mph* faster than Graf EVER EVER HIT !!! With same
rackets and strings and when Serena was still years from her power peak,
still a growing girl!!!!

Amazing what you will stoop to! Steffi power would be so weak today !!!!

[PeteWasLucky]

There are women that hit faster serves than Serena but it means nothing.

[stephenJ]

> On 2/12/2017 3:01 PM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
> There are women that hit faster serves than Serena but it means nothing.

Not many. She's usually at #1 or #2 at the slams for fastest serve. She
was #1 at last year's US Open, tied for #1 at this AO.

And it matters greatly. Serena can claim lots of free points off her
first serve.

[PeteWasLucky]

You bringing serve speed to say Graf isn't as great as Serena is the most stupid statement I have ever heard and reflect how confused you are in your life and in your knowledge.

[stephenJ]

> On 2/12/2017 4:18 PM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
> You bringing serve speed to say Graf isn't as great as Serena is the most stupid statement

What dimension are you broadcasting from?

[PeteWasLucky]

stephenJ <sja...@cox.net> Wrote in message:

Aren't you the one that started with a post about Steffi low speed
serve? Yes or no?
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[stephenJ]

On 2/12/2017 5:11 PM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
> stephenJ <sja...@cox.net> Wrote in message:
>> > On 2/12/2017 4:18 PM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
>>> You bringing serve speed to say Graf isn't as great as Serena is the most stupid statement
>>
>> What dimension are you broadcasting from?
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>
> Aren't you the one that started with a post about Steffi low speed
> serve? Yes or no?

You ask that as if either way, the answer could absolve you of
broadcasting from another dimension. A dimension filled with dumbness.

[PeteWasLucky]

Honestly you are the one that's too dumb.
Your posts are in the border of mental retardation and your
arguments reflects very low IQ with the inability to comprehend
simple things triggering your frustration and anger.

[stephenJ]

On 2/12/2017 10:46 PM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
> stephenJ <sja...@cox.net> Wrote in message:
>> On 2/12/2017 5:11 PM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
>>> stephenJ <sja...@cox.net> Wrote in message:
>>>> > On 2/12/2017 4:18 PM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
>>>>> You bringing serve speed to say Graf isn't as great as Serena is the most stupid statement
>>>>
>>>> What dimension are you broadcasting from?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Aren't you the one that started with a post about Steffi low speed
>>> serve? Yes or no?
>>
>> You ask that as if either way, the answer could absolve you of
>> broadcasting from another dimension. A dimension filled with dumbness.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>
> Honestly you are the one that's

Your brain is very low-powered, probably too dumb to know difference
between honest and dishonest.

Your posts are truly ridiculous. You say the dumbest things and with the
tone and authority of a convinced moron. It's very sad.

[heyg...@gmail.com]

Average serve speeds don't tell the whole story. One of Serena's best serves is out wide on the duece court. She hits it about 95mph, but gets a ton of aces with it due to disguise and placement. When you factor in speed, disguise, placement, and big point clutch serves, Serena's serve is in another league from Graf's. Adding 10mph to Graf's serve wouldn't change that. IMO Graf would serve around Clijster's level with modern equipment---great but still not close to the best.

[*skriptis]

stephenJ <sja...@cox.net> Wrote in message:
> On 2/12/2017 10:46 PM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
>> stephenJ <sja...@cox.net> Wrote in message:
>>> On 2/12/2017 5:11 PM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
>>>> stephenJ <sja...@cox.net> Wrote in message:
>>>>> > On 2/12/2017 4:18 PM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
>>>>>> You bringing serve speed to say Graf isn't as great as Serena is the most stupid statement
>>>>>
>>>>> What dimension are you broadcasting from?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Aren't you the one that started with a post about Steffi low speed
>>>> serve? Yes or no?
>>>
>>> You ask that as if either way, the answer could absolve you of
>>> broadcasting from another dimension. A dimension filled with dumbness.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Honestly you are the one that's
>
>
> Your brain is very low-powered, probably too dumb to know difference
> between honest and dishonest.
>
> Your posts are truly ridiculous. You say the dumbest things and with the
> tone and authority of a convinced moron. It's very sad.

lol

[PeteWasLucky]

lol, let's start step one, you go back to elementary school and learn what 5℅ and 10℅ chance means.

Once you understand this and I really doubt it, I will tell you what to do next.

[stephenJ]

> On 2/12/2017 11:35 PM, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> Average serve speeds don't tell the whole story. One of Serena's best serves is out wide on the duece court. She hits it about 95mph, but gets a ton of aces with it due to disguise and placement.

Good point, and don't forget about spin. E.g., back in the 90s, while
Sampras had a very big serve, there were a few guys who hit with a
little higher MPH. But just about everyone said Sampras's serve was the
best because it was a "heavy" ball, meaning combining a lot of spin with
the speed, whereas most other big servers hit a much flatter ball, which
is easier to handle. Courier once said Sampras's serve "exploded" into
your racket, making it much harder to handle.

Serena likewise combines pace with a lot of spin, which also gives her
better control so that like Sampras, she doesn't have to take as much
pace off the second serve either.

Graf had none of those qualities. A generic serve.

[soccerfan777]

On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 9:35:15 AM UTC-6, StephenJ wrote:
> > On 2/12/2017 11:35 PM, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Average serve speeds don't tell the whole story. One of Serena's best serves is out wide on the duece court. She hits it about 95mph, but gets a ton of aces with it due to disguise and placement.
>
> Good point, and don't forget about spin. E.g., back in the 90s, while
> Sampras had a very big serve, there were a few guys who hit with a
> little higher MPH. But just about everyone said Sampras's serve was the
> best because it was a "heavy" ball, meaning combining a lot of spin with
> the speed, whereas most other big servers hit a much flatter ball, which
> is easier to handle. Courier once said Sampras's serve "exploded" into
> your racket, making it much harder to handle.
>
> Serena likewise combines pace with a lot of spin, which also gives her
> better control so that like Sampras, she doesn't have to take as much
> pace off the second serve either.
>
> Graf had none of those qualities. A generic serve.
>

Serena's serve is nowhere as effective as Sampras. She gets broken quite often. It was almost impossible to break Sampras' serve

[stephenJ]

That is ridiculous, but coming from you, normal.

[soccerfan777]

I wrote three short lines. You snipped two of them and responded to my online thus stripping off the context and explanation... You should be a politician!

[stephenJ]

And in the very first one, proved yourself an idiot. For the 1,000th
time in 13 years.

[soccerfan777]

You always take trolling to the next level...Roast

[PeteWasLucky]

At times I thought he has been trolling, but unfortunately I learned this is the real thing, poor creature.

[calim...@gmx.de]

Somehow you forgot to address the question why Graf with old racket equipment served faster in Wimbledon 1999 than most the current top ten players did at the AO 2017 with modern widebody rackets.

Where are all the big powerful girls against whom Steffi would have no chance?
Lol ...


Max

[stephenJ]

Somehow you keep harping on stupid idiocy. Let me give you the facts
again, they show Serena and Venus hitting WAY harder serves than Graf
with SAME 90s Rackets and Strings!:

WTA fastest serves 1999

1-Venus Williams (USA) - 197.9 km/h - Wimbledon
2-Serena Willimas (USA) - 188.3 - US Open
3-Mariaan de Swardt (South Africa) - 186.6 - Wimbledon
4-Evie Dominikovic (Australia) - 184 - Australian Open
5-Jana Novotna (Czech Rep.) - 183.4 - Wimbledon
6-Alexandra Stevensson (USA) - 181.8 - Wimbledon
7-Amelia Mauresmo (France) - 181 - Australian Open
7-Alicia Molik (Australia) - 181 - Australian Open
9-Mirjana Lucic (Croatia) - 178.5 - Wimbledon
9-Mary Pierce (France) - 178.5 - US Open
11-Nadejda Petrova (Russia) - 179 - Australian Open
12-Lindsay Davenport (USA) - 177 - Chase Championships
12-Alexandra Fusai (France) - 177 - Hilton Head
12-Miriam Oremans (Ned.) - 177 - US Open
15-Jennifer Capriati (USA) - 175.3 - Wimbledon
15-María Antonia Sánchez Lorenzo (Spain) - 175.3 - US Open
17-Monica Seles (USA) - 173.8 - Amelia Island
17-Irina Spirlea (Romania) - 173.8 - US Open
19-Anna Kournikova (Russia) - 173 - Australian Open
19-Magui Serna (Spain) - 173 - Australian Open
19-Sandrine Testud (France) - 173 - Australian Open


... NO GRAF AT ALL so stop spewing German AlternaFact nonsense!

BYE BYE Steffi !!!!!!

[soccerfan777]

Seems like some cherry-picking BS to me...

[stephenJ]

That's because you're a dumb biased grafanatic.

[PeteWasLucky]

stephenJ <sja...@cox.net> Wrote in message:

You are still posting your stupid shit?

[calim...@gmx.de]

Somehow you still forgot to address the question why Graf with old racket equipment had a faster average serve speed in Wimbledon 1999 than most the current top ten players did at the AO 2017 with modern widebody rackets.

[stephenJ]

> Somehow you still forgot to address the question why Graf with old racket equipment

Somehow you forgot to address the question that Steffi's serve speed at
Wimbledon 1999 (which you have NO evidence for save for claim that it
was shown on German TV - LMAO!) was *nothing special at all* by today's
standards and she couldn't overpower ANYBODY today whereas she routinely
overpowered EVERYONE in the 90s except for Seles/Davenport types, who
beat her in slam finals.

NOBODY today cares at all about a 100 mph serve! But in 1993 it was a
BIG deal!

You are a silly desperate GraFan ... LMAO !!!!

Bye Bye Steffi !!!!!

[heyg...@gmail.com]

Max spent all those years arguing against Seles woulda coulda scenarios, but now he's stuck with Graf woulda coulda for all time. His mourning is going to take awhile...

[calim...@gmx.de]

It was on the BBC broadcast, too.

> was *nothing special at all* by today's
> standards and she couldn't overpower ANYBODY today whereas she routinely
> overpowered EVERYONE in the 90s except for Seles/Davenport types, who
> beat her in slam finals.
>
> NOBODY today cares at all about a 100 mph serve!

Most current top 10 players serve slower than Steffi back then with OLD STANDARD-SIZE racket frames, dummy!

Are you dense or just a Trumper?


Max

[Tier3]

>
Good point, and don't forget about spin. E.g., back in the 90s, while
Sampras had a very big serve, there were a few guys who hit with a
little higher MPH. But just about everyone said Sampras's serve was the
best because it was a "heavy" ball, meaning combining a lot of spin with
the speed, whereas most other big servers hit a much flatter ball, which
is easier to handle. Courier once said Sampras's serve "exploded" into
your racket, making it much harder to handle.

Serena likewise combines pace with a lot of spin, which also gives her
better control so that like Sampras, she doesn't have to take as much
pace off the second serve either.

Graf had none of those qualities. A generic serve. <

Graf's super-high toss didn't lend itself to generating max power.

[TT]

14.2.2017, 0:10, calim...@gmx.de kirjoitti:
> It was on the BBC broadcast, too.

Fake News

[TT]

13.2.2017, 23:53, stephenJ kirjoitti:
>
> Somehow you forgot to address the question that Steffi's serve speed at
> Wimbledon 1999 (which you have NO evidence for save for claim that it
> was shown on German TV - LMAO!)

Max has been known to make fake claims about Steffi before.

[calim...@gmx.de]

Er, no.
It was this Jaros Trumper who claimed the great Steffi would stand no chance against the big strong clowns of the current WTA (while old midget Kimiko Date beat Serena era slam winners right and left! .... lol ...)


Max

[calim...@gmx.de]

Just rewatched it.
The insert was in English, so obviously from the original BBC broadcast.
It read Venus 100 mph, Steffi 98 mph first serve average.
Steffi with standard frame!

Today she plays widebody rackets. She would serve with at least 105 mph on average.
Her forehand would be devastating!!

Max


--
"This would be her time."
(Capriati on Steffi Graf)

[calim...@gmx.de]

You mean that Steffi is one of the most beautiful female tennis players of all time?

Well, that is a FACT!


Max

[stephenJ]

Good point.

[stephenJ]

> On 2/13/2017 4:02 PM, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> Max spent all those years arguing against Seles woulda coulda scenarios, but now he's stuck with Graf woulda coulda for all time. His mourning is going to take awhile...

It is poetic justice, LOL.

Bye Bye Steffi !!!

[Fans and Friends]

On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 10:31:16 PM UTC+5:30, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> Steffi Graf served with 162 km/h on average (1st serve) in the first four rounds in Wimbledon 1999 (according to stats which were shown on TV at the start of the qf match against V. Williams)
>
> What about the current top players?
> Here are the data from the AO 2017 - average first serve speed per match of the 10 top seeds:
> S. Williams 167 175 172 167 171 170 166 170
> Kerber 147 133 140 151
> Radwanska 146 148
> Halep 148
> Cibulkova 152 151 147
> Muguruza 157 160 160 162 160
> Pliskova 169 162 165 162 165
> Kuznetsova 151 141 153 151
> Konta 161 161 168 167 164
> Suarez-Navarro 144 134
>
> So Serena served about 8 km/h (5 mph) faster than Steffi with old equipment 18 years ago.
> Pliskova and Konta about 3 km/h (2 mph) faster.
> Muguruza as fast as Steffi.
> The rest not even close ....
>
> Now imagine Steffi with current racket technology!
>
>
> Max
>
>
> --
> "This would have been her time."
> (Capriati on Steffi Graf)

Good finding. But I read the fastest serves list in 1999. Fine, but she faced ranked 1 and 3 in the list, who won against them? Steffi.

It proved that Steffi can beat who serves faster than her. But we should respect every champion. 23 is greater than 22. But it's just one case. Steffi still leads in many other cases.

Steffi forever.

[stephenJ]

As the serve stats show, Steffi's power would be nothing today. And she
won 99% of her matches with power.

Bye Bye Steffi !!!

[Fans and Friends]

On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 11:52:28 AM UTC+5:30, StephenJ wrote:

> It is poetic justice, LOL.
>
> Bye Bye Steffi !!!
>
>

You used "bye bye Steffi" tons of times, but you still go with Steffi. Steffi will always be in GOAT discussion just as Serena and Navratilova. Hope you're not a hater.

[Fans and Friends]

I always wonder if anybody says like you can win if you serve faster. But we have tons of proves that you can win even if your serve is not fastest.

By the way, do you know who holds the fastest serve record in ladies tennis? Name top-10 list if you can. Thanks.

[stephenJ]

LMAO you dummy! These are OFFICIAL WTA stats, not bogus TV listings.

Read that list again! Top servers of 1999 - same rackets, same strings,
same Radar Guns!

Steffi NEVER EVER hit a serve as much as 108 mph, not ever, from
1990-1999! Those are the documented WTA facts you dumb AlternaFact
Trumpasaurus!

Steffi's serve would be WEAK SAUCE today Max, and imagine her trying to
run around backhands!

Bye Bye Steffi !!!!

[Fans and Friends]

Can you find out Justin Henin's serve speeds when she was ruling?

[calim...@gmx.de]

BS.
She mostly hit backhands, slice backhands. And her forehand was very fast but her placement was even better. Now imagine her with a modern widebody racket!

Max


--
"This would be her time."
(Capriati on Steffi Graf)

[calim...@gmx.de]

Giants like Schultz-McCarthy, Lisicki and Görges are among them.

Max

[stephenJ]

LMAO!

Slice backhands would get destroyed today! She used slice to stay in
rally so as to run around and hit Forehand!

Imagine graf trying to run around backhands these days ... hilarious !!!!

Steffi power - NOTHING today !!!

Bye Bye Steffi !! !

LMAO !!!

[calim...@gmx.de]

> Slice backhands would get destroyed today! ....

Lol, how so?

I mean in real life, not in your Trumper parallel universe?


Max

[soccerfan777]

The jackass doesn't know slice can stay really row and throw you off-balance and off-pace. A good slice actually puts the opponent into defensive.

[heyg...@gmail.com]

True, but the tour now has slower, higher bouncing surfaces than the 90s, with the biggest difference at W. And newer strings allow players to rip balls just a foot off the court (anyone ever watch Rafa?). Graf's slice bh would be much less effective as a rallying shot today.

[stephenJ]

You are so sad!

Steffi's game was to hit a "big" serve and then run around her slice BH
to hit "big" forehands.

But Steffi's serve AND forehand would be NOTHING today and she couldn't
run around anyone's baseline shots to hit forehands anyway!

How could she win anything at all??

LMAO!

Bye Bye Steffi !!!!

[calim...@gmx.de]

You todays players are faster abd could easily reach Steffi's forehands?
Especially the old black hippo ....?
Lol ...

> and she couldn't
> run around anyone's baseline shots to hit forehands anyway!
>
> How could she win anything at all??
>

Well, if a 40/44-year-old pusher from the Steffi era can beat five different slam winners of the Serena era - I'd say a young Steffi could do some, er, damage ... ? Perhaps ...?

LOOOOOOOOL!!!!


Max

[stephenJ]

Easily, because many girls today hit forehands harder than Steffi ever
did !!!

LMAO!

Bye Bye Steffi !!!

[calim...@gmx.de]

Lol, who would those "many girls" be, dummy?

Max

[stephenJ]

At least 50%!

Bye Bye Steffi !!!!

LMAO !!!!

[calim...@gmx.de]

LMAO !!!!


Max

[stephenJ]

You are ignorant! Watching Graf/ASV 1996 is slo-mo tennis !!!!

Bye Bye Graf !!!!!!

LMAO!!!!

[christopher5819]

On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 2:10:32 PM UTC-5, calim...@gmx.de wrote:

> Steffi hit 110 mph in the 1996 Wimbledon final. With standard rackets.

Hey I just downloaded that final. One of my favorite Steffi matches. I remember her serving really well and having a very high first serve percentage that day. However I don't remember her hitting a 110 mph serve. What point in the match was that?

Thanks!

[calim...@gmx.de]

Can't say that since I got this 110 mph from a German tennis magazine report on that Wimbledon final.
Actually Steffi served up to 180 km/h (112 mph) according to many internet sources.

http://www.ontennis.com/player/steffi-graf
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/quora/who-would-win-a-match-bet_b_10050856.html
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/56521-tennis-players-that-changed-the-game-steffi-graf
http://www.stevegtennis.com/greatest-female-tennis-players-of-all-time/

Although Huffingtonpost might be lying as usual - at least they are considering their claim that Serena serves consistently with 200 km/h (125 mph).


Max

[Alexis Woolwine]

Did Serena ever win the "Grand Slam?". NO
Did Serena ever with the "Golden Slam?" NO
Did Serena win all 4 majors at least 4 times? NO
Does Serena hold the all-time record for men & women being #1 for 377 weeks? NO
Guess who has ALL of those things? GRAF

So if Steffi can hold the all-time record being #1 in the world for a total of 377 weeks (a record for both men and women) and Serena is still playing 10 YEARS, yes 10 YEARS LONGER than Graf and she still can't beat her, then I just laugh my ass off about you "Serena has a much faster serve" temper tantrum.
Do you realize how retarded you come across?? NO

On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 9:35:15 AM UTC-6, StephenJ wrote:
> > On 2/12/2017 11:35 PM, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Average serve speeds don't tell the whole story. One of Serena's best serves is out wide on the duece court. She hits it about 95mph, but gets a ton of aces with it due to disguise and placement.
> Good point, and don't forget about spin. E.g., back in the 90s, while
> Sampras had a very big serve, there were a few guys who hit with a
> little higher MPH. But just about everyone said Sampras's serve was the
> best because it was a "heavy" ball, meaning combining a lot of spin with
> the speed, whereas most other big servers hit a much flatter ball, which
> is easier to handle. Courier once said Sampras's serve "exploded" into
> your racket, making it much harder to handle.
>
> Serena likewise combines pace with a lot of spin, which also gives her
> better control so that like Sampras, she doesn't have to take as much
> pace off the second serve either.
>
> Graf had none of those qualities. A generic serve.

[Sawfish]

I was watching Berrettini losing to Rudd last night and again marveled
at Berrettini's service grip. It's maybe the most exaggerated eastern BH
grip used on serve I've ever seen, and yet the ball trajectory and what
I could see of the bounce indicated that it was flatter than
most--something like Kyrgios.

If true, it would have to mean some unusual body mechanics (wrist or
ball toss placement?) to hit flat with that kind of grip.

I employed something like that grip (not as extreme) on 2nd serves to
achieve kick or twist. I'm not sure what it would take to hit flat with
that grip--maybe excessive wrist pronation, early? Maybe the toss a bit
behind you?

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If we use Occam's Razor, whose razor will *he* use?" --Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Alexis Woolwine]

Fact check for Retards:

1995 US Open Final: Graf consistently hit aces 105,106, & 107 against Seles.
1996 US Open Final: Graf hit 110 against Seles.

And the best stats which your little mind has no answer for are:

"Grand Slam" =GRAF
"Golden Slam" =GRAF
*377 weeks at #1 in the world (record for both men & women) =GRAF
Won each major at least 4 times =GRAF
*Graf achieved #1 in the world for a record 377 weeks when she was still just 27 years old. Serena, at age 40!- is nowhere close and she will never be #1 again. HMMM.....