Steve Flink's Greatest matches and strokes of all time

[grif]

Been reading this interesting book, but haven't bought it yet, so some
of this is from memory. And yes, he does say that a list like this is
highly subjective:

Greatest Matches
----------------
1. Wimbledon 2008: Nadal bt Federer

2. Wimbledon 1980: Borg bt McEnroe

...

7. AO 2012 Djokovic bt Nadal

Think the above are the top 3 open era matches that he ranks in the top 10.

Honourable mentions:
2001 US Open Sampras bt Agassi (4 tiebreaks)
1996 Hanover Sampras bt Becker
2005 AO Safin bt Federer
2011 Rome Djokovic bt Murray

Greatest Strokes
----------------
1st Serve
1. Sampras
2. Gonzales
3. Becker
4. Ivanisevic
5. Federer/Isner

2nd serve
1. Sampras
2. Kramer
3. Newcombe
4. Roddick
5. Rafter

Return of Serve
1. Agassi
2. Connors
3. Djokovic
4. Hewitt
5. Murray

Forehand
1. Federer
2. Nadal
3. Lendl
4. Tilden
5. Borg/Sampras/Del Potro

Backhand
1. Budge
2. Rosewall
3. Connors
4. Djokovic
5. Hoad/Kuerten

FH Volley
1. Kramer
2. Newcombe
3. Emerson
4. Rafter
5. McEnroe

BH Volley
1. Edberg
2. Roche
3. Rosewall
4. Laver
5. Sampras

Overhead
1. Sampras
2. McEnroe
3. Gonzales
4. Federer
5. Trabert

Lob
1. Nastase
2. Borg
3. Santana
4. Wilander
5. Connors/Murray

Passing Shot
1. Nadal
2. Borg
3. Agassi
4. Hewitt
5. Djokovic

mental toughness
1. Nadal
2. Connors
3. Gonzales
4. Sampras
5. Laver

Interesting to see how highly he was regarding some of Murray's shots,
even though at the time of publication Murray had yet to win a major.

Some of Steve's comments (again, from memory):
----------------------------------------------
-Sampras was the best big match player he's ever seen. Thought Sampras
at his best was better than anyone that had achieved eminence on a
tennis court. His comment in the tennis channel's 100 greatest players
of all time was that he still believed that Sampras at his best would
beat Federer at his best.

- Steve gives Federer the edge over Nadal for the best forehand ever,
but it is a very close call.

- Del Potro is changing the face of the modern game with his explosive
flat forehand, the biggest in the sport today

-Djokovic may yet finish as the greatest returner of all time, but he's
already establised himself near the top of the list

Tignor interviewing Steve Flink about his book:
http://blogs.tennis.com/thewrap/2012/06/book-club-the-greatests.html

[grif]

Forgot to mention that he ranks the Greatest players of all time as:
1. Federer
2. Sampras
3. Laver

[Pelle Svanslös]

On 24.9.2012 18:27, grif wrote:
> Been reading this interesting book, but haven't bought it yet, so some
> of this is from memory. And yes, he does say that a list like this is
> highly subjective:
>
> Greatest Matches
> ----------------
> 1. Wimbledon 2008: Nadal bt Federer
>
> 2. Wimbledon 1980: Borg bt McEnroe
>
> ...
>
> 7. AO 2012 Djokovic bt Nadal

No AO 2009?

> Greatest Strokes
> ----------------
> 1st Serve
> 1. Sampras

Yup.

>
> 2nd serve
> 1. Sampras

Yup.

> 4. Roddick

This is hogwash. A horrendous pick. Rogi's second is in a different planet.

> Return of Serve
> 1. Agassi
> 2. Connors
> 3. Djokovic
> 4. Hewitt
> 5. Murray

THis is a pretty good list. I'd throw Hewitt out and put Rafa in third
or fourth, and drop Connors to 5.

>
> Forehand
> 1. Federer
> 2. Nadal
> 3. Lendl
> 4. Tilden

Why include these guys from the stoned age?

> 5. Borg/Sampras/Del Potro
>
> Backhand
> 1. Budge
> 2. Rosewall

Both of these are nonsense.

> 3. Connors
> 4. Djokovic
> 5. Hoad/Kuerten

NOw were talking.

> FH Volley

Not much need to rate those.

>
> Overhead
> 1. Sampras

Anything hit above the head and it's Sampras.

>
> Passing Shot
> 1. Nadal
> 2. Borg
> 3. Agassi

Agassi was never a defender. Agassi has to go.

> 4. Hewitt

Hewitt has to go too. He punches off a punch, feed him junk and his
passes will be junk too. Anybody with a clay pedigree kicks his ass.

> 5. Djokovic

Yup.

> mental toughness
> 1. Nadal
> 2. Connors
> 3. Gonzales
> 4. Sampras
> 5. Laver
>
> Interesting to see how highly he was regarding some of Murray's shots,
> even though at the time of publication Murray had yet to win a major.

Some people see the game for what it is, not through bandwagoners lenses.

> Some of Steve's comments (again, from memory):
> ----------------------------------------------
> -Sampras was the best big match player he's ever seen. Thought Sampras
> at his best was better than anyone that had achieved eminence on a
> tennis court. His comment in the tennis channel's 100 greatest players
> of all time was that he still believed that Sampras at his best would
> beat Federer at his best.
>
> - Steve gives Federer the edge over Nadal for the best forehand ever,
> but it is a very close call.
>
> - Del Potro is changing the face of the modern game with his explosive
> flat forehand, the biggest in the sport today

I doubt that. Otherwise I like his calls.

--
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/FEDERER_Roger-24x30-1998.jpg

[Joe Ramirez]

On Sep 24, 12:27 pm, grif <griffin_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Been reading this interesting book, but haven't bought it yet, so some
> of this is from memory. And yes, he does say that a list like this is
> highly subjective:
>
> Greatest Matches
> ----------------
> 1. Wimbledon 2008: Nadal bt Federer
>
> 2. Wimbledon 1980: Borg bt McEnroe
>
> ...
>
> 7. AO 2012 Djokovic bt Nadal
>
> Think the above are the top 3 open era matches that he ranks in the top 10.

Are you saying that of Flink's top 10 greatest matches, only three are
from the open era? That would strike me as odd, given that by Flink's
own admission, he didn't start following the sport until just before
the open era began. Is he including older matches based on their
reputation, rather than his own contemporaneous viewing?

At 44 years, the open era is now just about as old as the "modern"
segment of the pre-open era (roughly, from the time of Tilden vs. The
Four Musketeers until 1968). And a nice chunk of that segment was lost
to WWII. Given the absurdly better level of documentation of tennis in
the last several decades, one would expect that "all-time" lists of
this type should be dominated by open era matches.

[grif]

No, I meant the three highest ranked open era matches, but you made me
realise that I did miss out the 1969 match between Pancho Gonzales
against Charlie Pasarell. I think that was at #4 on his list. I can't
remember what was 6th ranked, but he did also mention the Laver vs
Rosewall 1972 WCT final somewhere in the top 10 I think.

[Ulysses]

Anyone putting the AO 2012 Djokovic-Nadal match on a "top 10 list"
needs their head examined. It was 2.5 hours of utter time wasting
between points and one hour of towelling-off, which leaves 90 mins. of
boring, unimaginative tennis. The only interesting thing about the
match was seeing Rafa miss that sitter FH up the line which would have
put him in a position to serve for it. One of the few times Nadal has
ever choked in a huge match. Also interesting was Nole's repulsive
winning celebration, where he morphs into a gorilla and rips off his
shirt.

[TT]

I'd include Lendl-Mac RG final.
That Safin-Fed has no place in top 10...

[TT]

24.9.2012 19:37, grif kirjoitti:
> 2011 Rome Djokovic bt Murray

Nah.

Nadal-Coria 2005 Rome, one of best matches ever played.

[Ulysses]

Any list which omits the Becker-Lendl 1989 Masters Cup is whacked.
Highest quality tennis match maybe EVER!

[grif]

The honourable mentions, like the Safin-Fed match, are matches that he
ranked outside the top 10. The Wimbledon Fed-Roddick 5 set was another
honourable mention I think. He may also have listed the AO 2012
Djokovic-Murray match. I'll try to check the list tomorrow and see if I
can get some other matches he mentioned, unless someone with the book
wants to post some stuff beforehand.

[grif]

Checked Steve's book today and need to make some corrections to the
greatest matches I posted initially. I'll expand the list as well, since
I noted down a lot more matches today. The other stuff in the original
post about the greatest strokes and his comments still seemed about right.

He lists about 30 greatest matches of all time (the list includes
women's matches as well as men's). His honourable mentions are those
that just missed out on his top 30 list.

I'm only going to list the open era's men's matches in his top 30
greatest matches of all time.

So, Steve Flink's greatest matches of all time (for men's open era):

1. Wimbledon 2008: Nadal bt Federer
2. Wimbledon 1980: Borg bt McEnroe

4. WCT Final 1972: Rosewall bt Laver

7. AO 2012: Djokovic bt Nadal

8. Wimbledon 1969: Gonzales bt Pasarell
9. US Open 2001 Sampras bt Agassi

The above seem to be Steve's highest rated men's open era matches in his
top 10.

Carrying on with his 30 greatest matches in the men's open era, we have:

13. Hanover 1996: Sampras bt Becker
16. AO 1969: Laver bt Roche
19. US Open: 1976 Connors bt Borg
22. DC 1982: McEnroe bt Wilander
27 Wimbledon 1972: Smith bt Nastase
28 Wimbledon 2009: Federer bt Roddick
30 Wimbledon 1975: Ashe bt Connors

Some of the men's Honourable Mentions (those just outside his top 30 list)
US Open 1984: McEnroe bt Connors
AO 1985: Edberg bt Lendl
US Open 1995: Sampras bt Agassi
AO 2005 Safin bt Federer
Rome 2011 Djokovic bt Murray
US Open 2011 Djokovic bt Federer

The AO 2012 Djokovic bt Murray match wasn't an honourable mention after
all.

Of all the notable matches that weren't mentioned, maybe it's the 1984
French Open final where Lendl bt McEnroe that seems to be the most
glaring (well spotted TT). It doesn't seem to be even an honourable
mention. If anyone has the book, feel free to post any corrections.

[Joe Ramirez]

On Sep 25, 12:12 pm, grif <griffin_...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Carrying on with his 30 greatest matches in the men's open era, we have:
>
> 13. Hanover 1996: Sampras bt Becker
> 16. AO 1969: Laver bt Roche
> 19. US Open: 1976 Connors bt Borg

Wow -- highly overrated. It was a tight match through three sets, with
a great tiebreak in the third, but after that it fizzled. Didn't even
go five sets. Borg was too passive and not really at his best.

> 22. DC 1982: McEnroe bt Wilander
> 27 Wimbledon 1972: Smith bt Nastase
> 28 Wimbledon 2009: Federer bt Roddick
> 30 Wimbledon 1975: Ashe bt Connors

Great, historic win for Ashe, and a great triumph of tactics, but
certainly not a great match by conventional standards. No fifth set,
and the first two sets weren't even competitive.

[Carey]

On Sep 25, 9:12 am, grif <griffin_...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> Of all the notable matches that weren't mentioned, maybe it's the 1984
> French Open final where Lendl bt McEnroe that seems to be the most
> glaring (well spotted TT). It doesn't seem to be even an honourable
> mention. If anyone has the book, feel free to post any corrections.

Great, great match unaccountably missed, along with Mac/ Connors USO
'84
as mentioned above; sensational.

[Whisper]

'84 Wimbledon final Mac d Connors 61 61 62 deserves to be there too.
Modern day masterpiece.

[Joe Ramirez]

Great play by one player /= great match.

[Court_1]

On Sep 25, 12:12 pm, grif <griffin_...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Carrying on with his 30 greatest matches in the men's open era, we have:
>
> 13. Hanover 1996: Sampras bt Becker
> 16. AO 1969: Laver bt Roche
> 19. US Open: 1976 Connors bt Borg

You also have to put 1977 Borg vs Connors at Wimbledon in there IMO
where Connors was down 0-4 in the fifth and he fought back to level it
and then Borg came back and won it 6-4. Two ultimate fighters of the
game in an intense match, doesn't get better than that.

[grif]

His 10 greatest male players of all time:

1. Federer
2. Sampras
3. Laver

4. Kramer
5. Tilden
6. Borg
7. Nadal
8. Budge
9. Gonzales
10 Connors/Agassi

Some of Steve's reasoning behind his choices is mentioned here:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/tennis/news/20120924/greatest-matches-book/