Chris Evert vs Martina Navratilova H2H is misleading
Raja
Grass: Navratilova lead 10-5 (but last Nav 5 victories were post 1983)
Carpet: Navratilova lead 19-6 (total domination by Nav)
Hard: Evert leads 16-11 (domination by Chris)
So fair to say Chris won most Clay and Hard court battles, while Nav
won Grass and Carpet. But look at the #times they played each other on
surfaces
Clay = 13
Grass = 15
Carpet = 25
Hard = 27
Clay was absolutely strong surface for Chris but Navratilova wasnt
good enough to meet her there. Hence she came out the victor in that
H2H. If she played more on clay, she would have lost more to Chris.
StephenJ
are you stupid? They played EXACTLY 40 times on surfaces you say
favored MN, and 40 times on surfaces you say favored CE. Hard to be
fairer than that, you ninny.
spp
This is a stupid post - Doesnt make any sense
LOL
>
> - Show quoted text -
Clay is a dominant surface along with Hardcourt. MN avoided clay for
the most time, else the H2H would have been in Chris favor. Also most
of those carpet and grass wins came post 1982 when Evert was too old.
StephenJ
> On Jun 15, 9:04 am, StephenJ <sjar...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Jun 15, 7:51 am, Raja <zepflo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Clay: Evert leads 10-3 (total domination by Chris)
>>> Grass: Navratilova lead 10-5 (but last Nav 5 victories were post 1983)
>>> Carpet: Navratilova lead 19-6 (total domination by Nav)
>>> Hard: Evert leads 16-11 (domination by Chris)
>>> So fair to say Chris won most Clay and Hard court battles, while Nav
>>> won Grass and Carpet. But look at the #times they played each other on
>>> surfaces
>>> Clay = 13
>>> Grass = 15
>>> Carpet = 25
>>> Hard = 27
>>> Clay was absolutely strong surface for Chris but Navratilova wasnt
>>> good enough to meet her there. Hence she came out the victor in that
>>> H2H. If she played more on clay, she would have lost more to Chris.
>> are you stupid? They played EXACTLY 40 times on surfaces you say
>> favored MN, and 40 times on surfaces you say favored CE. Hard to be
>> fairer than that, you ninny.- Hide quoted text -
> Clay is a dominant surface along with Hardcourt. MN avoided clay for
> the most time, else the H2H would have been in Chris favor.
I see, so in your definition of "fair", MORE matches should have been
played on surfaces that favored CE than on surfaces that favored MN. LOL.
And obviously, grass was a dominant surface for MN, which is why she
beat CE in ALL FIVE wimbledon finals.
> Also most
> of those carpet and grass wins came post 1982 when Evert was too old.
In 1984, when MN was the same age Evert was in 1982, MN won almost
everything. Meaningless, unless you want to discount a bunch of MN's
losses to Evert in the mid-70s, when she was "too young". Evert was 14-2
versus MN between 1973 and mid-1976.
Verdict: You are a ninny.
--
Even if U.S. atom bombs were dropped on China and blasted
a hole in the earth or blew it to pieces, this might be
a big thing for the solar system, but it would still be
an insignificant matter as far as the universe as a whole
is concerned.
- Mao Tse Tung, 1957
StephenJ
yes, can't believe i got sucked in to responding - twice!
--
When the facts change,
one's opinion ought to change.
- John Maynard Keynes
TT
No. Raja is correct here. Navratilova did skip clay tournaments through
Evert's peak and we know reason for that.
Evert did not skip fast court tournaments.
Imo Evert was much greater player than Navratilova.
StephenJ
dude, they played almost the same # of times on grass as on clay.
> Imo Evert was much greater player than Navratilova.
that's an opinion you probably should keep to yourself.
TT
Navratilova skipped clay tournaments while Evert totally dominated the
surface, winning 125 mathes in a row.
They played on grass and very fast carpet total of 40 times vs 13 on
clay, dude.
>
>
>> Imo Evert was much greater player than Navratilova.
>
> that's an opinion you probably should keep to yourself.
>
I see no reason to do so.
Calimero
Navratilova avoided clay completely post-87.
Because she knew that she would have been murdered by Graf.
Hence this surprising H2H between Graf and Navratilova (9-9).
LOL
I agree. Stephen Haros is a moron who is biased to Martin Navratil.
LOL
Fucking moron.. how many clay court tournaments in a year and how many
grass court tournaments in a year? How many times have Nadal-Fed faced
on clay vs grass... Get a clue, douche!
>
> > Imo Evert was much greater player than Navratilova.
>
> that's an opinion you probably should keep to yourself.- Hide quoted text -
LOL
>
> - Show quoted text -
I agree. She avoided clay a lot during Evert and completely avoided it
once Graf came into the picture. Her H2H against Evert/Graf is
distorted. It should have been in favor of Evert/Graf, if Navratilova
didnt pull that trick!
StephenJ
> StephenJ wrote:
>>> Imo Evert was much greater player than Navratilova.
>>
>> that's an opinion you probably should keep to yourself.
> I see no reason to do so.
9 wimbledons to 3 is a good reason.
--
The Constitution does not prohibit legislatures from
enacting stupid laws.
- Thurgood Marshall
TT
> TT wrote:
>> StephenJ wrote:
>
>>>> Imo Evert was much greater player than Navratilova.
>>>
>>> that's an opinion you probably should keep to yourself.
>
>> I see no reason to do so.
>
> 9 wimbledons to 3 is a good reason.
>
>
French Open defines who is the best player though.
StephenJ
some random years for each, and the # of clay events played:
1975, Evert 4, MN 6
1977: E 2, MN 3
1980: E 3, MN 2
1983, E 4, MN 3
1986, E 4, MN 2
Neither played many clay events. Overall, Evert played 298 clay matches
in her career, MN played 275 in hers. Not a big difference.
--
"the purpose of the Russian campaign is to reduce the Slavic
population by 30 million".
- Heinrich Himmler, 1941
jdeluise
So Federer is the best player this year? ;)
TT
Nice, maybe not so random since Evert won 125 clay matches in a row
while Navratilova won...?
TT
Yes, but with an idefix.
jdeluise
Whatever that is, it has no real-world relevancy in tennis.
StephenJ
not sure that anyone else, even evert, would agree. she for sure would
have rather won wimbledon.
StephenJ
Fact is, neither MN or Evert played much on clay during the 70s. And
not just tune-ups, both skipped the FO as well.
Heck, Evert skipped the FO three straight years, 76-78, when she would
have been the prohibitive favorite. MN didn't play it from 76-80. Was
she dodging Evert? Obviously not, otherwise she'd have played it from
76-78 when Evert was skipping it!
The FO just wasn't nearly as prestigious back then as it is now, so
not a lot of reason to play clay events.
Raja
Dont be a retard. Evert won 125 straight matches in clay.
Raja
> TT wrote:
> > StephenJ wrote:
> >>> Imo Evert was much greater player than Navratilova.
>
> >> that's an opinion you probably should keep to yourself.
> > I see no reason to do so.
>
> 9 wimbledons to 3 is a good reason.
Are you really a grown up man? Making such childish posts... I guess
Navratilova is three times better than Evert then... what a petard...
lets all discount all the slams and only count the fucking Wimbledon.
By that logic Ken Rosewall, Pancho Gonzales, Ivan Lendl, Monica Seles,
Justine Henin were journeymen/journeywomen.
Whisper
>>>> No. Raja is correct here. Navratilova did skip clay tournaments
>>>> through Evert's peak and we know reason for that.
>>> dude, they played almost the same # of times on grass as on clay.
>> Navratilova skipped clay tournaments while Evert totally dominated the
>> surface, winning 125 mathes in a row.
>
>
> Navratilova avoided clay completely post-87.
> Because she knew that she would have been murdered by Graf.
To be fair in 1987 MN was already older than Graf when she retired.
TT
> On Jun 15, 4:23 pm, StephenJ <s...@pix.net> wrote:
>> TT wrote:
>>> StephenJ wrote:
>>>>> Imo Evert was much greater player than Navratilova.
>>>> that's an opinion you probably should keep to yourself.
>>> I see no reason to do so.
>> 9 wimbledons to 3 is a good reason.
>
> Are you really a grown up man?
Good question.
> Making such childish posts... I guess
> Navratilova is three times better than Evert then... what a petard...
> lets all discount all the slams and only count the fucking Wimbledon.
> By that logic Ken Rosewall, Pancho Gonzales, Ivan Lendl, Monica Seles,
> Justine Henin were journeymen/journeywomen.
--
But what we can't measure is his intensity, and this is what separates
him on the gritty shale, where sweat oils the hair and points are like
discussions.
StephenJ
yes, and she still swept W/USO. 88/89 graf benefitted from worst
competition ever - her top rival was practically a grandmother.
Calimero
So?
1987 was just 6 years after Navratilova's 3rd slam win.
Comparable of Graf avoiding one surface post-94.
Max
Calimero
1988 was just 6 years after Navi's third slam win and 6 years before
her last slam final.
Comparable to Graf in the mid-90ies.
Max
wen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
<32e1c72f-06ee-4176...@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
calim...@gmx.de (Calimero) wrote:
> Subject: Re: Chris Evert vs Martina Navratilova H2H is misleading
> From: Calimero <calim...@gmx.de>
> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:56:45 -0700 (PDT)
>
> On 16 Jun., 14:13, StephenJ <sjar...@cox.net> wrote:
> > On Jun 16, 3:21�am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
> >
> > > Calimero wrote:
> > > >>>> No. Raja is correct here. Navratilova did skip clay
> > tournaments
> > > >>>> through Evert's peak and we know reason for that.
> > > >>> dude, they played almost the same # of times on grass as on
> > clay.
> > > >> Navratilova skipped clay tournaments while Evert totally
> > dominated the
> > > >> surface, winning 125 mathes in a row.
> >
> > > > Navratilova avoided clay completely post-87.
This simply is not true. She skipped the FO from 1989 on, though she
played singles in 1994 and again in 2004. But she went on playing events
like Hilton Head and Amelia Island, and she played Rome in 1990, 1991,
1993, and 1994. She didn't avoid clay as much as avoid the FO because it
would interfere with her goal of winning Wimbledon again.
wg
StephenJ
> In article
> <32e1c72f-06ee-4176-9d2e-5eb9b6149...@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> calimero...@gmx.de (Calimero) wrote:
> > Subject: Re: Chris Evert vs Martina Navratilova H2H is misleading
> > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:56:45 -0700 (PDT)
>
> > On 16 Jun., 14:13, StephenJ <sjar...@cox.net> wrote:
> > > On Jun 16, 3:21 am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> > > > Calimero wrote:
> > > > >>>> No. Raja is correct here. Navratilova did skip clay
> > > tournaments
> > > > >>>> through Evert's peak and we know reason for that.
> > > > >>> dude, they played almost the same # of times on grass as on
> > > clay.
> > > > >> Navratilova skipped clay tournaments while Evert totally
> > > dominated the
> > > > >> surface, winning 125 mathes in a row.
>
> > > > > Navratilova avoided clay completely post-87.
>
> This simply is not true. She skipped the FO from 1989 on, though she
> played singles in 1994 and again in 2004. But she went on playing events
> like Hilton Head and Amelia Island, and she played Rome in 1990, 1991,
> 1993, and 1994. She didn't avoid clay as much as avoid the FO because it
> would interfere with her goal of winning Wimbledon again.
max never lets fax get in the way of his grafan lunacy.
LOL
What kind of a sorry ass are you! She is not only the greatest tennis
player of all time, she is also one of the greatest athletes of the
century and her winning all 4 slams at least 4 times, being #1 for 377
weeks, 22 professional slams are gonna be unmatched for a long long
time. And above all, she was one the most gracious athletes of all
time and is respected all over the world and had immense support
wherever she played.
And yet you hate her! Just because is not American. You are a sick and
sad puppy.
LOL
retarded post. She won Wimby 1990. And she was pretty much at the top
of her game in 1988/89. She won a bunch of tournaments and had a great
win loss record for both years.
Not just that.... H2H between Seles and Navratilova is very
respectable for Navratilova... Navratilova would have been winning a
bunch of slams if not for Seles and Graf.
http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/HeadToHead/0,,12781~5744~7354,00.html
0 (2) 1989VS CHAMPIONSHIPSCARPETQM.NAVRATILOVA6-3 5-7 7-50 (6)
2 (1) 1989VS OF DALLASCARPETFM.NAVRATILOVA7-6(2) 6-310 (5)
2 (1) 1990VS OF LOS ANGELESHARDFM. SELES6-4 3-6 7-6(6)3 (2)
2 (1) 1990ITALIAN OPENCLAYFM. SELES6-1 6-14 (2)
2 (1) 1990VS OF CALIFORNIACARPETFM. SELES6-3 7-6(5)3 (2)
2 (1) 1990VS OF WASHINGTONCARPETSM.NAVRATILOVA6-3 6-06 (3)
4 (4) 1991VS CHAMPIONSHIPSCARPETFM. SELES6-4 3-6 7-5 6-01 (1)
4 (2) 1991MILANOCARPETFM. SELES6-3 3-6 6-41 (1)
3 (2) 1991VS OF PALM SPRINGHARDFM.NAVRATILOVA6-2 7-6(6)2 (1)
5 (5) 1991US OPENHARDFM. SELES7-6(1) 6-12 (1)
4 (2) 1991VS OF CALIFORNIACARPETFM.NAVRATILOVA6-3 3-6 6-31 (1)
0 (4) 1992VS CHAMPIONSHIPSCARPETFM. SELES7-5 6-3 6-10 (1)
4 (4) 1992WIMBLEDONGRASSSM. SELES6-2 6-7(3) 6-41 (1)
4 (2) 1992VS OF LOS ANGELESHARDFM.NAVRATILOVA6-4 6-21 (1)
4 (2) 1992OAKLANDCARPETFM. SELES6-3 6-41 (1)
4 (2) 1993PARISCARPETFM.NAVRATILOVA6-3 4-6 7-6(3)1 (1)
3 (2) 1993VS OF CHICAGOCARPETFM. SELES3-6 6-2 6-11 (1)
StephenJ
well, she says MN is. LOL.
Graf clearly has the best slam record, but my gosh, you have to put an
asterisk by it due to the Seles stabbing. Knock off 5-6 slams right
there and it looks far less impressive.
StephenJ
> On Jun 16, 7:13 am, StephenJ <sjar...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 16, 3:21 am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> > > Calimero wrote:
> > > >>>> No. Raja is correct here. Navratilova did skip clay tournaments
> > > >>>> through Evert's peak and we know reason for that.
> > > >>> dude, they played almost the same # of times on grass as on clay.
> > > >> Navratilova skipped clay tournaments while Evert totally dominated the
> > > >> surface, winning 125 mathes in a row.
>
> > > > Navratilova avoided clay completely post-87.
> > > > Because she knew that she would have been murdered by Graf.
>
> > > To be fair in 1987 MN was already older than Graf when she retired.
>
> > yes, and she still swept W/USO. 88/89 graf benefitted from worst
> > competition ever - her top rival was practically a grandmother.
>
> retarded post. She won Wimby 1990. And she was pretty much at the top
> of her game in 1988/89. She won a bunch of tournaments and had a great
> win loss record for both years.
MN was older than Graf was when she retired. It's a no-brainer you
dumbbell - graf 88/89 played nobody.
Calimero
You never explained which "5-6 slams" you mean. And I don't expect
anything coming from you in this regard.
Max
LOL
>
> - Show quoted text -
Age doesnt matter. Navratilova was playing some of her best tennis in
88 and 89 and dominating everyone except Steffi.
LOL
>
> - Show quoted text -
I would rather knock your front teeth off, if ever see you.
Calimero
Yes, she had a 67-3 win/loss streak in 1989/90.
Her only 3 losses being the Wim, USO and YEC finals.
Opponent: Steffi Graf. If it weren't for Graf 1989 would have been one
of Navi's greatest years.
Easy to imagine how many slams Navi would have if Graf had been born
10 years earlier ...
Max
StephenJ
you, a pissant little punkass? rajarocker? lol.
LOL
you will cry like a bitch, if you ever cross my path.
LOL
Yep and she would have continue to win at least 8 slams more if Steffi
was born 10 years later. Navratilova hates Graf for a reason.