Top 5 Kim moments

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Sakari Lund

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May 6, 2007, 9:39:17 AM5/6/07
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Oh well. It seems it is good I did this already a few weeks ago.
Didn't think it would be time to post it already. Anyway, my top 5 Kim
moments:


1. USO F 2005 Kim def. Pierce 6-3,6-1

No need to explain. I still get tears in my eyes thinking about that
night. After all the disappointments and missed opportunities. There
was a feeling from the beginning of the match that this time nothing
is going to go wrong. Just watch and enjoy. The match itself was too
one-sided to be a great match, but who cares.

2. USO SF 2005 Kim def. Sharapova 6-2,6-7,6-3

The match where Kim was at her mentally strongest ever. This was the
key match in the tournament, because the final opponent would be much
easier. Kim played the way she played in 2005, a bit more defensively
than before, and a bit too defensively for my taste. But it worked a
treat. In this match Sharapova hit a bit harder, but everything came
back with interest. If she took a little bit of power off, Kim started
dominating the point. If she added even more power and went closer to
the lines, she eventually made a mistake. Kim won the first set
easily, and looked like winning the second, when she had five match
points. Sharapova played those points with high risk, and it worked
for her. There would have been a chance to collapse having lost the
second set after five match points, but this time Kim didn't do that.
She kept playing her game, and Sharapova couldn't keep winning with
that high risk game for a long time.

3. Kim on North American hard courts in 2005

This is not really understood how great this season was.

Almost right after coming back after a year out with a wrist injury.

Match record 36-1.

As it says in her bio in WTA site "incredible dominance on North
American hardcourts, going 36-1 (only loss coming to Peng in QF of San
Diego) for the most matches won on hardcourts in a season ever"

Started with winning Indian Wells and Miami back-to-back. Then won
Stanford, Los Angeles, Toronto and US Open.

Including against top players at the time

Kim - Sharapova 2-0
Kim - Davenport 1-0
Kim - Dementieva 2-0 (6-4,6-2 and 6-2,6-1 in Miami QF)
Kim - Myskina 2-0
Kim - Mauresmo 1-0 (6-1,6-0 in Miami SF, Mauresmo was #2)
Kim - Venus 2-0
Kim - Henin 1-0 (7-5,6-1 in Toronto F)
Kim - Pierce 1-0

Only loss to Shuai Peng in San Diego.

No sets lost in Miami, Stanford, Los Angeles and Toronto. Especially
the Miami scores are amazing.


4. YEC 2006 Round Robin Kim def. Kuznetsova 6-1,6-1

Probably the best I have ever seen her play. It is amazing that it
came so late in her career. She had played good matches before, but
always made more errors. In this match everything worked. She did just
what she wanted and everything worked. And only 4 unforced errors.

5. Filderstadt 2003 F Kim def. Henin 5-7,6-4,6-2

The best Kim - Justine match I ever saw, and in my favourite
tournament (which sadly doesn't exist any more in that venue). In
Filderstadt it was a very fast indoor surface, which was great for
women's tennis. This was a match where both for once played really
well against each other. The fast surface undoubtedly helped Kim, who
always liked indoor events more than Justine. Very high level match.


Thanks Kim for everything. I wish all the best for your life. And
remember, if you get bored of the cooking and cleaning, you can always
come back.


Calimero

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May 6, 2007, 10:14:26 AM5/6/07
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Sakari Lund schrieb:

By Kim you mean?

> ....


>
> Thanks Kim for everything. I wish all the best for your life. And
> remember, if you get bored of the cooking and cleaning, you can always
> come back.

Bye, Kim.
She was one of the good ones.

Max

Calimero

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May 6, 2007, 10:15:44 AM5/6/07
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On May 6, 4:14 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:

...


> Bye, Kim.
> She was one of the good ones.


And the 2nd-highest-ranked player retiring.

Max

nicksa...@gmail.com

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May 6, 2007, 10:22:18 AM5/6/07
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On 6 mai, 23:39, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
> Thanks Kim for everything. I wish all the best for your life. And
> remember, if you get bored of the cooking and cleaning, you can always
> come back.

i will give you 3 matches which summed up clijsters for me, and
signified what kind of a player she was - a huge waste of talent,
possibly the biggest since novotna and sabatini. i think they're
career definers for her:

RG 2001 F Capriati d. Clijsters 1-6 6-4 12-10
AO 2003 SF S.Williams d Clijsters 4-6 6-3 7-5
RG 2005 QF Davenport d. Clijsters 1-6 7-5 6-3

Sakari Lund

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May 6, 2007, 10:58:28 AM5/6/07
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According to WTA "most matches won on hardcourts in a season ever." I
thought you might find that part interesting.

Calimero

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May 6, 2007, 11:15:39 AM5/6/07
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On May 6, 4:58 pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:


Even if we take only outdoor HC matches we come up with:

Graf (1988) 38-1
Graf (1989) 37-0
Seles (1991) 40-3
Davenport (2000) 38-7

Graf isn't called the best HC player ever for no reason.

Max

Sakari Lund

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May 6, 2007, 11:50:43 AM5/6/07
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On 6 May 2007 08:15:39 -0700, Calimero <calim...@gmx.de> wrote:

>> >> 3. Kim on North American hard courts in 2005
>>
>> >> This is not really understood how great this season was.
>>
>> >> Almost right after coming back after a year out with a wrist injury.
>>
>> >> Match record 36-1.
>>
>> >> As it says in her bio in WTA site "incredible dominance on North
>> >> American hardcourts, going 36-1 (only loss coming to Peng in QF of San
>> >> Diego) for the most matches won on hardcourts in a season ever"
>>
>> >By Kim you mean?
>>
>> According to WTA "most matches won on hardcourts in a season ever." I
>> thought you might find that part interesting.
>
>
>Even if we take only outdoor HC matches we come up with:
>
>Graf (1988) 38-1
>Graf (1989) 37-0
>Seles (1991) 40-3
>Davenport (2000) 38-7
>
>Graf isn't called the best HC player ever for no reason.

I took the quote straight from Kim's WTA bio, and even though they say
"hardcourts" I think they must mean "North American hardcourts" like
they say just before, and like I say in my post. Kim was still injured
during the Australian events, so her numbers for all hardcourts can't
be that big. In fact, if your numbers include Australian events, I am
surprised they haven't won more. 36-1 is winning Indian Wells, Miami,
Stanford, Los Angeles, Toronto and US Open, and one loss in San Diego.
Did Steffi ever have a season like that on North American hardcourts?
Anyway, I think this was an amazing achievement.

Calimero

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May 6, 2007, 12:17:17 PM5/6/07
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On May 6, 5:50 pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:

Steffi usually played only USO and one or two tune-ups on American
hard-courts.

> Anyway, I think this was an amazing achievement.

Without a doubt.
But always be wary when you read that someone other than Graf is "best
ever" in anything.
It well could be wrong .....
;-)

For me Clijsters was the best indoors player of the open era after
Graf and Navratilova, BTW. The best winning percentage in the last 10
years by far at least.

Max

wenquan lee

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May 6, 2007, 12:19:12 PM5/6/07
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how did she manage to lose to farmer giles on the red stuff?

all the best,

wenquan lee

wenquan lee

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May 6, 2007, 12:20:56 PM5/6/07
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it was good to see her win a slam, although i wouldn't have picked the
uso. she did tend to play too defensively for my liking - and i say
that because with her general athleticism, she had other options.
still feel she could have been a 3-5 slam player... ah well, good luck
to her.

stephenj

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May 6, 2007, 1:08:04 PM5/6/07
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Sakari Lund wrote:
> Oh well. It seems it is good I did this already a few weeks ago.
> Didn't think it would be time to post it already. Anyway, my top 5 Kim
> moments:
>
>
> 1. USO F 2005 Kim def. Pierce 6-3,6-1
>
> No need to explain. I still get tears in my eyes thinking about that
> night. After all the disappointments and missed opportunities. There
> was a feeling from the beginning of the match that this time nothing
> is going to go wrong. Just watch and enjoy. The match itself was too
> one-sided to be a great match, but who cares.

when i think of USO 2005, i recall how Venus had Clijsters beat and let
her off the hook. Very sad, since had she won that match Venus would
have won the title, giving her 3 years with W/USO titles in the same
year, a very impressive feat indeed.

--
"when i visited Aden before collectivization,
all the markets were full of fish product. After
collectivization, the fish immediately disappeared."

- Aleksandr Vassiliev, Soviet KGB official

Bart op de grote markt

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May 6, 2007, 1:32:52 PM5/6/07
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On 6 mei, 19:08, stephenj <s...@cox.net> wrote:
> Sakari Lund wrote:
> > Oh well. It seems it is good I did this already a few weeks ago.
> > Didn't think it would be time to post it already. Anyway, my top 5 Kim
> > moments:
>
> > 1. USO F 2005 Kim def. Pierce 6-3,6-1
>
> > No need to explain. I still get tears in my eyes thinking about that
> > night. After all the disappointments and missed opportunities. There
> > was a feeling from the beginning of the match that this time nothing
> > is going to go wrong. Just watch and enjoy. The match itself was too
> > one-sided to be a great match, but who cares.
>
> when i think of USO 2005, i recall how Venus had Clijsters beat and let
> her off the hook. Very sad, since had she won that match Venus would
> have won the title, giving her 3 years with W/USO titles in the same
> year, a very impressive feat indeed.
>


bad loosers exist everywhere :)

mimus

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May 6, 2007, 3:27:13 PM5/6/07
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On Sun, 06 May 2007 16:39:17 +0300, Sakari Lund wrote:

> Oh well. It seems it is good I did this already a few weeks ago.
> Didn't think it would be time to post it already. Anyway, my top 5 Kim
> moments:
>
> 1. USO F 2005 Kim def. Pierce 6-3,6-1
>
> No need to explain. I still get tears in my eyes thinking about that
> night. After all the disappointments and missed opportunities. There
> was a feeling from the beginning of the match that this time nothing
> is going to go wrong. Just watch and enjoy. The match itself was too
> one-sided to be a great match, but who cares.

Pierce earned my _deepest_ admiration in the SF [1], so I reely reely
_reely_ enjoyed that one . . . .

[1] See

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.tennis/browse_frm/thread/d4fb3c0c59fe5e1b/a0f400473a694543?lnk=st&q=Pierce+Dementieva+group%3Arec.sport.tennis+author%3Amimus+author%3A%3Ctinmimus99%40hotmail.com%3E&rnum=5#a0f400473a694543

--

Take a deep breath, take a walk, cool off, plot a bit, and serve again.


Sakari Lund

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May 6, 2007, 4:04:36 PM5/6/07
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And Indian Wells and Miami?

>> Anyway, I think this was an amazing achievement.
>
>Without a doubt.
>But always be wary when you read that someone other than Graf is "best
>ever" in anything.
>It well could be wrong .....
>;-)
>
>For me Clijsters was the best indoors player of the open era after
>Graf and Navratilova, BTW. The best winning percentage in the last 10
>years by far at least.

Maybe I am in a bit sentimental mood, but this might just be your best
post ever :-)

EFill4Zaggin

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May 6, 2007, 4:05:03 PM5/6/07
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On 6 May 2007 07:22:18 -0700, nicksa...@gmail.com wrote:


>RG 2005 QF Davenport d. Clijsters 1-6 7-5 6-3

That one she definitely should've one.


Sakari Lund

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May 6, 2007, 4:12:23 PM5/6/07
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On 6 May 2007 09:20:56 -0700, wenquan lee <wenqua...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

She didn't play that defensively earlier, or she never would have
become my favourite. But as I mentioned, I feel that she started
playing a bit more defensively after the long injury break.

>still feel she could have been a 3-5 slam player... ah well, good luck
>to her.

There are so many cases to talk about, choked slam finals, choked
semis, missed chances because of injuries (Myskina winning FO 04 and
Kuznetsova USO 04, arghh...), and of course retiring at 23...

Calimero

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May 6, 2007, 4:48:01 PM5/6/07
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On May 6, 10:04 pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:

I know, I felt the same on Friday, August 13th, A.D. 1999 ....

> but this might just be your best
> post ever :-)


I'm lifting a glass of champagne for Kim now!
Cheers!!

Max

(Actually I was having champagne this evening because of Sarkozy's win
- but Kim deserves some, too)

Sakari Lund

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May 6, 2007, 5:00:44 PM5/6/07
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On 6 May 2007 13:48:01 -0700, Calimero <calim...@gmx.de> wrote:

>> >For me Clijsters was the best indoors player of the open era after
>> >Graf and Navratilova, BTW. The best winning percentage in the last 10
>> >years by far at least.
>>
>> Maybe I am in a bit sentimental mood,
>
>I know, I felt the same on Friday, August 13th, A.D. 1999 ....

No, I don't feel anything like that. Remember Kim is only my #2
all-time favourite. Actually I am surprised how little sentimental I
feel.

>> but this might just be your best
>> post ever :-)
>
>
>I'm lifting a glass of champagne for Kim now!
>Cheers!!
>
>Max
>
>(Actually I was having champagne this evening because of Sarkozy's win
>- but Kim deserves some, too)

Sarkozy is scary. Royal is stupid. I am glad I am not French and
didn't have to choose from those two.


Calimero

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May 6, 2007, 5:05:23 PM5/6/07
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On May 6, 11:00 pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:

> On 6 May 2007 13:48:01 -0700, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> >> >For me Clijsters was the best indoors player of the open era after
> >> >Graf and Navratilova, BTW. The best winning percentage in the last 10
> >> >years by far at least.
>
> >> Maybe I am in a bit sentimental mood,
>
> >I know, I felt the same on Friday, August 13th, A.D. 1999 ....
>
> No, I don't feel anything like that. Remember Kim is only my #2
> all-time favourite. Actually I am surprised how little sentimental I
> feel.

Who is your #1 favourite?
Emma Laine?

Max

wenquan lee

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May 6, 2007, 5:32:24 PM5/6/07
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On May 6, 9:12 pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
> On 6 May 2007 09:20:56 -0700, wenquan lee <wenquanten...@yahoo.co.uk>
> Kuznetsova USO 04, arghh...), and of course retiring at 23...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

she's only 23? wow, didn't realise - seems like she's been a contender
for so long.

who will be your favourite active player now?

Sakari Lund

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May 6, 2007, 6:03:28 PM5/6/07
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I never know about you, you really don't know or just playing games.
Dominique Van Roost.

Sakari Lund

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May 6, 2007, 6:04:44 PM5/6/07
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On 6 May 2007 14:32:24 -0700, wenquan lee <wenqua...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

>she's only 23? wow, didn't realise - seems like she's been a contender


>for so long.
>
>who will be your favourite active player now?

Daniela Hantuchova.

R*A*J*A*

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May 6, 2007, 6:31:14 PM5/6/07
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On May 6, 5:04 pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
> On 6 May 2007 14:32:24 -0700, wenquan lee <wenquanten...@yahoo.co.uk>

> wrote:
>
> >she's only 23? wow, didn't realise - seems like she's been a contender
> >for so long.
>
> >who will be your favourite active player now?
>
> Daniela Hantuchova.

Is it me or you seem to prefer chokers over real champions?

Whisper

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May 7, 2007, 4:09:51 AM5/7/07
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She can easily come back anytime in next 3 yrs - her game is still the
same, but mentally she's burnt out - much like Sampras last couple yrs,
though he was old in tennis terms.

Whisper

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May 7, 2007, 4:28:17 AM5/7/07
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Seems that early blooper set the tone for her big matches.

Whisper

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May 7, 2007, 5:05:07 AM5/7/07
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Sakari Lund wrote:
>
>> still feel she could have been a 3-5 slam player... ah well, good luck
>> to her.
>
> There are so many cases to talk about, choked slam finals, choked
> semis, missed chances because of injuries (Myskina winning FO 04 and
> Kuznetsova USO 04, arghh...), and of course retiring at 23...


She only choked 1 slam final - her 1st.

Sakari Lund

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May 7, 2007, 7:01:54 AM5/7/07
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I guess part of it is that being a fan of dominant #1's is not my cup
of tea. What fun is it to be a fan of Steffi Graf or Pete Sampras?
Another slam, yawn...

But I don't know if that's the real reason. If I really liked Steffi
Graf, she would have been my favourite player. But something has to
click, and that happened in a big way with Dominique, in a smaller way
with Kim, and yet smaller way with Daniela.

Calimero

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May 7, 2007, 7:31:36 AM5/7/07
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On May 7, 12:03 am, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:

Of cooouuuuurse!!!!
But she is retired - get over it!
;-)

Max


Sakari Lund

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May 7, 2007, 7:35:44 AM5/7/07
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You had too much champagne last night :-)

wenquan lee

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May 7, 2007, 10:40:56 AM5/7/07
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> Seems that early blooper set the tone for her big matches.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -


difficult to argue against that. whatever happened to capriati anyway?
in party mode?

wenquan lee

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May 7, 2007, 10:41:51 AM5/7/07
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On May 6, 9:05 pm, EFill4Zaggin <EFill4Zag...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On 6 May 2007 07:22:18 -0700, nicksalzb...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >RG 2005 QF Davenport d. Clijsters 1-6 7-5 6-3
>
> That one she definitely should've one.


better movement, better defence, red clay, yup, amazed this actually
happened.

nemanja

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May 7, 2007, 11:53:24 AM5/7/07
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On May 6, 9:39 am, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
> Oh well. It seems it is good I did this already a few weeks ago.
> Didn't think it would be time to post it already. Anyway, my top 5 Kim
> moments:

Thanks for the post.
I'll just mention here my top 1 Clijsters moment, the 2005 USO QF
against Venus Williams. When it seemed like she was totally down and
out, she came up with the required tenacity under pressure and made a
successful comeback with some gutsy play.

Nemanja

Whisper

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May 7, 2007, 4:12:09 PM5/7/07
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...especially when she led 61 53.

Sakari Lund

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May 7, 2007, 6:22:11 PM5/7/07
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On 7 May 2007 08:53:24 -0700, nemanja
<nemanja.d...@discreet.com> wrote:

Yes, that too. I think it is overshadowed in my mind by the next two
matches (which are #1 and #2 in my list), but this was a big win too.

John P

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May 7, 2007, 8:39:48 PM5/7/07
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my favorite Kim moment was when she served as a net ballgirl during a
Flipper-Hewitt practice session before a 2003 Davis Cup tie against
Sweden. she seemed to enjoy that much more than she ever did playing.

bob

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May 9, 2007, 11:10:50 AM5/9/07
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"Calimero" <calim...@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:1178484481.8...@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

> Max
>
> (Actually I was having champagne this evening because of Sarkozy's win
> - but Kim deserves some, too)

so saving the "good stuff" for guiliani?

bob

Yama

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May 14, 2007, 5:42:46 AM5/14/07
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Sakari Lund <sakar...@welho.com> wrote:
: 2. USO SF 2005 Kim def. Sharapova 6-2,6-7,6-3

Hmm - not sure I'd have listed that one, it was pretty embarrassing quality
overall, though better player won fair & square.

Anyways, sad to see her quit, but hey, if Hingis can come back...

Kim will probably make comeback at AO 2010 and make QF, and then we can all cry on our beers
how women's tennis has regressed... :)

And hey, there's new Belgians coming up for ya:
http://www.itftennis.com/juniors/players/player.asp?player=100090160

Sakari Lund

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May 14, 2007, 7:39:54 AM5/14/07
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On Mon, 14 May 2007 09:42:46 +0000 (UTC), Yama
<tj...@NOSPAMpajuoulu.fi> wrote:

>Sakari Lund <sakar...@welho.com> wrote:
>: 2. USO SF 2005 Kim def. Sharapova 6-2,6-7,6-3
>
>Hmm - not sure I'd have listed that one, it was pretty embarrassing quality
>overall, though better player won fair & square.

I remember you didn't like the quality of the match back then. I don't
think it was that bad, but most of all as I said it was the match
where she was really tough mentally for once, and because it was a key
match for the title.

>Anyways, sad to see her quit, but hey, if Hingis can come back...
>
>Kim will probably make comeback at AO 2010 and make QF, and then we can all cry on our beers
>how women's tennis has regressed... :)

To me it will be a sure sign that she would have won all the slams in
2007, 2008 and 2009 :-)

>And hey, there's new Belgians coming up for ya:
>http://www.itftennis.com/juniors/players/player.asp?player=100090160

Yes, well, I have heard of Tamaryn Hendler, but I will break the
tradition of being a fan of Belgian players now.

Ted of Ted's Tennis

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May 14, 2007, 8:51:41 AM5/14/07
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Somebody claiming to be Sakari Lund <sakar...@welho.com> wrote at Mon,
14 May 2007 11:39:54 GMT:

> Yes, well, I have heard of Tamaryn Hendler, but I will break the
> tradition of being a fan of Belgian players now.

That's too bad, since Caroline Maes just won the $100K Challenger in
Rome, beating Marta Marrero in the final.

Emma Laine lost in the first round to Sara Errani.

--
Ted Schuerzinger <http://tedstennis.tripod.com/index.html>
Are you children so hung up on finally achieving puberty that you
can't ever discuss tennis in grown-up language?
pltrgyst, in <frrf42h0va9he9fju...@4ax.com>

Sakari Lund

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May 14, 2007, 5:54:17 PM5/14/07
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On Mon, 14 May 2007 12:51:41 -0000, "Ted of Ted's Tennis"
<tedst...@myrealbox.com> wrote:

>Somebody claiming to be Sakari Lund <sakar...@welho.com> wrote at Mon,
>14 May 2007 11:39:54 GMT:
>
>> Yes, well, I have heard of Tamaryn Hendler, but I will break the
>> tradition of being a fan of Belgian players now.
>
>That's too bad, since Caroline Maes just won the $100K Challenger in
>Rome, beating Marta Marrero in the final.
>
>Emma Laine lost in the first round to Sara Errani.

But won the doubles title. I heard couple of weeks ago that Emma has
been on antibiotics pretty much all year, which explains bad results
early in the year, and then a break of few weeks. Hopefully she is
starting to get the results now.

Yama

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May 14, 2007, 7:33:51 PM5/14/07
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Sakari Lund <sakar...@welho.com> wrote:
: Yes, well, I have heard of Tamaryn Hendler, but I will break the

: tradition of being a fan of Belgian players now.

So, are you finally going to start gloryhunting Russian players like
rest of us?

mimus

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May 14, 2007, 8:10:57 PM5/14/07
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Or start haunting Chinese tennis websites?

--

Take a deep breath, take a walk, cool off, plot a bit, and serve again.

Sakari Lund

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May 15, 2007, 7:27:19 AM5/15/07
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Hantuchova is my #1 favourite active player now.

Of the Russian players, Kirilenko is the most beautiful player on
Tour, but her tennis is not at the level to be a fan. Dementieva does
nothing to me, like she seems to do to most of you. OTOH, I like
Sharapova more than most here, but not THAT much. Petrova and
Kuznetsova are not that interesting. Zvonareva is crazy. None of the
lower ranked Russians have made a big impression on me.

mimus

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May 15, 2007, 12:26:30 PM5/15/07
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On Tue, 15 May 2007 14:27:19 +0300, Sakari Lund wrote:

> On Mon, 14 May 2007 23:33:51 +0000 (UTC), Yama
> <tj...@NOSPAMpajuoulu.fi> wrote:
>
>>Sakari Lund <sakar...@welho.com> wrote:
>>
>>: Yes, well, I have heard of Tamaryn Hendler, but I will break the
>>: tradition of being a fan of Belgian players now.
>>
>>So, are you finally going to start gloryhunting Russian players like
>>rest of us?
>
> Hantuchova is my #1 favourite active player now.
>
> Of the Russian players, Kirilenko is the most beautiful player on
> Tour, but her tennis is not at the level to be a fan. Dementieva does
> nothing to me, like she seems to do to most of you. OTOH, I like
> Sharapova more than most here, but not THAT much.

Count me in the Hantuchova and Sharapova camps-- may their head-to-head
continually increase!-- as well as the Dementieva camp.

> Petrova and
> Kuznetsova are not that interesting. Zvonareva is crazy.

Yep.

> None of the
> lower ranked Russians have made a big impression on me.

Count me in the Schiavone camp, too, who when she's goin' good is
Dementieva Light, and _much_ more demonstrative with it, up _and_ down--
right down to the serve, unfortunately (I wonder whether either one has
done an actual right-angle serve during an actual match).

I do admit Dementieva seemed to have improved hers for awhile.

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