Jannik Sinner in a winning streak

[Kalevi Kolttonen]

Jannik Sinner just beat Alex De Minaur 7-5 6-4
to claim ATP500 Rotterdam title. As far as I
know, his winning streak is now 12 matches
(7 wins in the Australian open and 5 more in
Rotterdam).

I checked out ATP Live Rankings and it seems
to me that Daniil Medvedev lost 500 points
and Sinner gained 200. Sinner's championship
is just enough for reaching #3 in the ATP
Rankings. The difference between Sinner and
Medvedev is only 5 ATP points.

Well done, Sinner! You are now a Grand Slam
men's singles champion and you also have reached
The Top Three in the ATP Rankings!

br,
KK

[The Iceberg]

the rankings are kind of correct then in slam terms, although Medvedev
should be slightly above arguable since he won his slam before Sinner
and Sinner has only been to one final.

[PeteWasLucky]

kal...@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) Wrote in message:r
> Jannik Sinner just beat Alex De Minaur 7-5 6-4to claim ATP500 Rotterdam title. As far as Iknow, his winning streak is now 12 matches(7 wins in the Australian open and 5 more inRotterdam).I checked out ATP Live Rankings and it seemsto me that Daniil Medvedev lost 500 pointsand Sinner gained 200. Sinner's championshipis just enough for reaching #3 in the ATPRankings. The difference between Sinner andMedvedev is only 5 ATP points.Well done, Sinner! You are now a Grand Slammen's singles champion and you also have reachedThe Top Three in the ATP Rankings!br,KK

It's nice to have someone new in the mix that can challenge Djokovic since Alcaraz is a little lost these days.
I still would like to see Sinner repeating this win against Djokovic in any of the next few slams because I think Djokovic played really bad that day. I know he is getting older and will have more bad days, but his level that day was awful.
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[Gracchus]

Haven't you heard? Father Time caught up with Djokovic that day, reducing him from superman to average schmoe in a heartbeat. Once thus caught, he can never go back because Father Time has him by the monogalooloos. There will never be another slam or even a slam final for Djokovic.

[Whisper]

1st Italian man ever to make top 3

[The Iceberg]

yes but that's also because Sinner is the NEW YOUNG GUN of tennis, he's
about to win every slam for the next 10 years at least!

[The Iceberg]

yes from the bit I saw he was awful, like he'd been out partying with
Dan Evans or something the night before.

[Pelle Svanslös]

I think he can snatch the crumbs Alcatraz leaves on the table. Those
crumbs still make about 10 slams. Not too shabby.

--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

[PeteWasLucky]

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r
> On 19.2.2024 14.10, The Iceberg wrote:> On 19/02/2024 06:02, Gracchus wrote:>> On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 5:31:13 PM UTC-8, PeteWasLucky wrote:>>> kal...@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) Wrote in message:r>>>> Jannik Sinner just beat Alex De Minaur 7-5 6-4to claim ATP500 >>>> Rotterdam title. As far as Iknow, his winning streak is now 12 >>>> matches(7 wins in the Australian open and 5 more inRotterdam).I >>>> checked out ATP Live Rankings and it seemsto me that Daniil Medvedev >>>> lost 500 pointsand Sinner gained 200. Sinner's championshipis just >>>> enough for reaching #3 in the ATPRankings. The difference between >>>> Sinner andMedvedev is only 5 ATP points.Well done, Sinner! You are >>>> now a Grand Slammen's singles champion and you also have reachedThe >>>> Top Three in the ATP Rankings!br,KK>>>>>> It's nice to have someone new in the mix that can challenge Djokovic >>> since Alcaraz is a little lost these days.>>>>> I still would like to see Sinner repeating this win against Djokovic >>> in any of the next few slams because I think Djokovic played really >>> bad that day. I know he is getting older and will have more bad days, >>> but his level that day was awful.>>>> Haven't you heard? Father Time caught up with Djokovic that day, >> reducing him from superman to average schmoe in a heartbeat. Once >> thus caught, he can never go back because Father Time has him by the >> monogalooloos. There will never be another slam or even a slam final >> for Djokovic.> > yes but that's also because Sinner is the NEW YOUNG GUN of tennis, he's > about to win every slam for the next 10 years at least!I think he can snatch the crumbs Alcatraz leaves on the table. Those crumbs still make about 10 slams. Not too shabby.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"-- Traditional

Based on their current levels of play, I give Sinner 55% to beat
Alcaraz on hc, Alcaraz 55% chance on grass vs Sinner, and give
Alcaraz very tiny edge on clay vs Sinner (like 51-52%).

[Sawfish]

Yes!

Exactly like Alcaraz!!!

--
"It is Pointless, and endless Trouble, to cast a stone at every dog
that barks at you."

--Sawfish

[Sawfish]

This seems like the makings of a great longer term rivalry, if they
remain healthy.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sawfish: A totally unreconstructed elasmobranch.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[PeteWasLucky]

Sawfish <sawfi...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
> On 2/19/24 8:36 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r>> On 19.2.2024 14.10, The Iceberg wrote:> On 19/02/2024 06:02, Gracchus wrote:>> On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 5:31:13 PM UTC-8, PeteWasLucky wrote:>>> kal...@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) Wrote in message:r>>>> Jannik Sinner just beat Alex De Minaur 7-5 6-4to claim ATP500 >>>> Rotterdam title. As far as Iknow, his winning streak is now 12 >>>> matches(7 wins in the Australian open and 5 more inRotterdam).I >>>> checked out ATP Live Rankings and it seemsto me that Daniil Medvedev >>>> lost 500 pointsand Sinner gained 200. Sinner's championshipis just >>>> enough for reaching #3 in the ATPRankings. The difference between >>>> Sinner andMedvedev is only 5 ATP points.Well done, Sinner! You are >>>> now a Grand Slammen's singles champion and you also have reachedThe >>>> Top Three in the ATP Rankings!br,KK>>>>>> It's nice to have someone new in the mix that can challenge Djokovic >>> since Alcaraz is a little lost these days.>>>>> I still would like to see Sinner repeating this win against Djokovic >>> in any of the next few slams because I think Djokovic played really >>> bad that day. I know he is getting older and will have more bad days, >>> but his level that day was awful.>>>> Haven't you heard? Father Time caught up with Djokovic that day, >> reducing him from superman to average schmoe in a heartbeat. Once >> thus caught, he can never go back because Father Time has him by the >> monogalooloos. There will never be another slam or even a slam final >> for Djokovic.> > yes but that's also because Sinner is the NEW YOUNG GUN of tennis, he's > about to win every slam for the next 10 years at least!I think he can snatch the crumbs Alcatraz leaves on the table. Those crumbs still make about 10 slams. Not too shabby.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"-- Traditional> Based on their current levels of play, I give Sinner 55% to beat> Alcaraz on hc, Alcaraz 55% chance on grass vs Sinner, and give> Alcaraz very tiny edge on clay vs Sinner (like 51-52%).This seems like the makings of a great longer term rivalry, if they remain healthy.-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Sawfish: A totally unreconstructed elasmobranch.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think Alcaraz is more talented but for now his game plan is only about hitting winners through the defense of other players and when it doesn't work he gets reduced to a confused little kid looking at his coach for solutions.
He doesn't have the different game plans yet to handle different playing styles, and I don't know if he will develop this or not, but if he did he will dominate everyone else.

[TT]

That's how it goes in tennis.

I've even heard players getting old at ripe age of 27 when losing a
Wimbledon final to a 500 times RG champion.

[TT]

Curiously their h2h suggests otherwise...

"Carlos Alcaraz and Jannik Sinner have played each other seven times so
far, with Sinner leading 4-3 (as of November 7th, 2023).

The young Spaniard leads their clashes on hard courts 3-2, while the
Italian has won their only matches thus far on clay and grass, as well
as notching two wins on hard."

...But I do agree that Alkie is better on clay & grass. I'd favour his
chances on those surfaces much more than your 51% & 55%...

[TT]

Let's not forget Raducanu either.

[Gracchus]

Sports immortals like Radu are never forgotten. If she played baseball, the team would have already retired her jersey.

[Whisper]

Alcaraz simply plays on instinct and has no clear strategy. He's so
talented he's already won Wimbledon and USO anyway. You do need
instinct to achiever at the goat level, but you also need
strategy/tactics to get through the meat and potato games. Imo he needs
a good tactical coach, can keep Ferrero as a mentor.

[TT]

Ferrero said couple years ago that he's not coaching tactics but letting
Alkie play freely, on instinct. Reading between the lines it sounds to
me that Ferrero thought trying to make Alkie a thinking player would be
a lost cause.

[PeteWasLucky]

Whisper <whi...@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r
> On 20/02/2024 6:08 am, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Sawfish <sawfi...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r>> On 2/19/24 8:36 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r>> On 19.2.2024 14.10, The Iceberg wrote:> On 19/02/2024 06:02, Gracchus wrote:>> On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 5:31:13 PM UTC-8, PeteWasLucky wrote:>>> kal...@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) Wrote in message:r>>>> Jannik Sinner just beat Alex De Minaur 7-5 6-4to claim ATP500 >>>> Rotterdam title. As far as Iknow, his winning streak is now 12 >>>> matches(7 wins in the Australian open and 5 more inRotterdam).I >>>> checked out ATP Live Rankings and it seemsto me that Daniil Medvedev >>>> lost 500 pointsand Sinner gained 200. Sinner's championshipis just >>>> enough for reaching #3 in the ATPRankings. The difference between >>>> Sinner andMedvedev is only 5 ATP points.Well done, Sinner! You are >>>> now a Grand Slammen's singles champion and you also have reachedThe >>>> Top Three in the ATP Rankings!br,KK>>>>>> It's nice to have someone new in the mix that can challenge Djokovic >>> since Alcaraz is a little lost these days.>>>>> I still would like to see Sinner repeating this win against Djokovic >>> in any of the next few slams because I think Djokovic played really >>> bad that day. I know he is getting older and will have more bad days, >>> but his level that day was awful.>>>> Haven't you heard? Father Time caught up with Djokovic that day, >> reducing him from superman to average schmoe in a heartbeat. Once >> thus caught, he can never go back because Father Time has him by the >> monogalooloos. There will never be another slam or even a slam final >> for Djokovic.> > yes but that's also because Sinner is the NEW YOUNG GUN of tennis, he's > about to win every slam for the next 10 years at least!I think he can snatch the crumbs Alcatraz leaves on the table. Those crumbs still make about 10 slams. Not too shabby.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"-- Traditional> Based on their current levels of play, I give Sinner 55% to beat> Alcaraz on hc, Alcaraz 55% chance on grass vs Sinner, and give> Alcaraz very tiny edge on clay vs Sinner (like 51-52%).This seems like the makings of a great longer term rivalry, if they remain healthy.-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Sawfish: A totally unreconstructed elasmobranch.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> > I think Alcaraz is more talented but for now his game plan is only about hitting winners through the defense of other players and when it doesn't work he gets reduced to a confused little kid looking at his coach for solutions.> He doesn't have the different game plans yet to handle different playing styles, and I don't know if he will develop this or not, but if he did he will dominate everyone else.Alcaraz simply plays on instinct and has no clear strategy. He's so talented he's already won Wimbledon and USO anyway. You do need instinct to achiever at the goat level, but you also need strategy/tactics to get through the meat and potato games. Imo he needs a good tactical coach, can keep Ferrero as a mentor.

Does Ferrero have what Alcaraz needs in the next stages of his career?

[Sawfish]

Taking that and running with it, looking back it becomes clear that his
talent is so great that even with very sloppy, or non-existent tactical
or even strategic sense, could could beat almost anyone in profession al
tennis, especially before they played him enough to come up with
strategies to counter his tendencies.

This allowed opponents to play him closer, and if we add to that either
a mechanically off day, or a special number of boneheaded plays, he now
loses some.

But he's still maybe the best raw talent I've seen. And I think he's
likely to become smarter, over time.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"To the average American or Englishman the very name of anarchy causes a shudder, because it invariably conjures up a picture of a land terrorized by low-browed assassins with matted beards, carrying bombs in one hand and mugs of beer in the other. But as a matter of fact, there is no reason whatever to believe that, if all laws were abolished tomorrow, such swine would survive the day."

--H. L. Mencken
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[undecided]

Ferrero was a counterpuncher which requires strategy so I think he does,

[Whisper]

Ferrero is still needed as a small cog in a bigger wheel, bit like Goran
and Djokovic relationship. Carlos needs a real strategic coach not just
a mentor if he's going to really maximize his success. If he doesn't
change anything he'll still win a few slams, but only a 3rd of what he's
fully capable of, and Sinner could also dominate Carlos with no changes.

[Whisper]

On 21/02/2024 5:11 am, Sawfish wrote:
> On 2/20/24 1:23 AM, TT wrote:
>
> Taking that and running with it, looking back it becomes clear that his
> talent is so great that even with very sloppy, or non-existent tactical
> or even strategic sense, could could beat almost anyone in profession al
> tennis, especially before they played him enough to come up with
> strategies to counter his tendencies.
>
> This allowed opponents to play him closer, and if we add to that either
> a mechanically off day, or a special number of boneheaded plays, he now
> loses some.
>
> But he's still maybe the best raw talent I've seen. And I think he's
> likely to become smarter, over time.
>

Yes, or at least surround himself with smarter people who know how to
get the best out of him. His team is excellent but not complete.

It's funny because what many of us thought was innate strategic ability
eg his amazing charges to net from behind baseline on big points v
Sinner and Ruud in 2022 USO was really just his instinct. Instinct and
talent can be enough to win big slams, but not enough to wring
everything you can out of this game.

[TT]

So we need to downgrade Alkie's slam total to 7?