OT: Alexei Navalny, long a thorn in Russian leader Vladimir Putin's side, dies in prison

[bmoore]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/

He was 47.

[*skriptis]

bmoore <bmo...@nyx.net> Wrote in message:r
> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/He was 47.



It hurts you so much that he won't be able to destroy Russia now, doesn't it?




--




----Android NewsGroup Reader----
https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html

[bmoore]

On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:48:21 AM UTC-8, *skriptis wrote:
> bmoore <bmo...@nyx.net> Wrote in message:r
> > https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/He was 47.
>
>
>
> It hurts you so much that he won't be able to destroy Russia now, doesn't it?

I knew that you would poke your head out :-)

[Sawfish]

On 2/16/24 10:38 AM, bmoore wrote:
> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/
>
> He was 47.

It's difficult to see why  anyone here should acre about this.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If we use Occam's Razor, whose razor will *he* use?" --Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Pelle Svanslös]

On 16.2.2024 20.38, bmoore wrote:
> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/
>
> He was 47.

I never understood why he had to go back. Lenin led a comfy life in
Germany before he was ferried back for the revolution. Navalnyi could of
done the same.

--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

[guypers]

Exactly, wait for pukin to be shot!

[TT]

bmoore kirjoitti 16.2.2024 klo 20.38:
> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/
>
> He was 47.

Old age is probably out of the question then.

Putin will hopefully get what's coming to him, and I'm sure his
opponents will show as little mercy as he had for his opponents.

[*skriptis]

TT <T...@dprk.kp> Wrote in message:r
> bmoore kirjoitti 16.2.2024 klo 20.38:> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/> > He was 47.Old age is probably out of the question then.Putin will hopefully get what's coming to him, and I'm sure his opponents will show as little mercy as he had for his opponents.



https://nypost.com/2024/02/16/entertainment/snoop-doggs-brother-bing-worthington-dead-at-44/

[The Iceberg]

why are you so pro-war and killing people? oh yes cos you're a Marxist.

[bmoore]

On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 11:01:07 AM UTC-8, Sawfish wrote:
> On 2/16/24 10:38 AM, bmoore wrote:
> > https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/
> >
> > He was 47.
> It's difficult to see why anyone here should acre about this.

Well, an autocrat may well have murdered his opposition. Certainly a possibility, given what we know about Putin.

[PeteWasLucky]

*skriptis <skri...@post.t-com.hr> Wrote in message:r

> bmoore <bmo...@nyx.net> Wrote in message:r> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/He was 47. It hurts you so much that he won't be able to destroy Russia now, doesn't it?-- ----Android NewsGroup Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html

Tucker missed this greatness about Russia in his interview.

[PeteWasLucky]

TT <T...@dprk.kp> Wrote in message:r

> bmoore kirjoitti 16.2.2024 klo 20.38:> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/> > He was 47.Old age is probably out of the question then.Putin will hopefully get what's coming to him, and I'm sure his opponents will show as little mercy as he had for his opponents.

No windows?

[The Iceberg]

oh please tell us what "we" know about Putin.

[jdeluise]

Sawfish <sawfi...@gmail.com> writes:

> On 2/16/24 10:38 AM, bmoore wrote:
>> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/
>>
>> He was 47.
>
> It's difficult to see why  anyone here should acre about this.

The timing is great, a good reminder to the US Supreme Court what Trump
is asking them permission to do (via "presidential immunity").

[Sawfish]

You're missing my point. You're making this into a moral question that
will never be answered, cannot be answered.

I'm coming at it from a utilitarian, not moralistic viewpoint.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant was awful--but at least the portions
were large!" --Sawfish

[jdeluise]

Sawfish <sawfi...@gmail.com> writes:

> On 2/16/24 2:40 PM, bmoore wrote:
>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 11:01:07 AM UTC-8, Sawfish wrote:
>>> On 2/16/24 10:38 AM, bmoore wrote:
>>>> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/
>>>>
>>>> He was 47.
>>> It's difficult to see why anyone here should acre about this.
>> Well, an autocrat may well have murdered his opposition. Certainly a
>> possibility, given what we know about Putin.
>
> You're missing my point. You're making this into a moral question that
> will never be answered, cannot be answered.
>
> I'm coming at it from a utilitarian, not moralistic viewpoint.

I didn't make anything a moral question. What could be more utilitarian
than the identification of what the absence of the rule of law, or the
dereliction of duty of those that apply the law, can lead to?

[*skriptis]

jdeluise <jdel...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
> Sawfish <sawfi...@gmail.com> writes:> On 2/16/24 2:40 PM, bmoore wrote:>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 11:01:07 AM UTC-8, Sawfish wrote:>>> On 2/16/24 10:38 AM, bmoore wrote:>>>> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/>>>>>>>> He was 47.>>> It's difficult to see why anyone here should acre about this.>> Well, an autocrat may well have murdered his opposition. Certainly a>> possibility, given what we know about Putin.>> You're missing my point. You're making this into a moral question that> will never be answered, cannot be answered.>> I'm coming at it from a utilitarian, not moralistic viewpoint.I didn't make anything a moral question. What could be more utilitarianthan the identification of what the absence of the rule of law, or thedereliction of duty of those that apply the law, can lead to?



What are you blabbering about?

Navalny commited crimes and was serving his sentence.

What absence of the rule of law are you referring to?

[TT]

*skriptis kirjoitti 17.2.2024 klo 6.42:
> jdeluise <jdel...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
>> Sawfish <sawfi...@gmail.com> writes:> On 2/16/24 2:40 PM, bmoore wrote:>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 11:01:07 AM UTC-8, Sawfish wrote:>>> On 2/16/24 10:38 AM, bmoore wrote:>>>> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/>>>>>>>> He was 47.>>> It's difficult to see why anyone here should acre about this.>> Well, an autocrat may well have murdered his opposition. Certainly a>> possibility, given what we know about Putin.>> You're missing my point. You're making this into a moral question that> will never be answered, cannot be answered.>> I'm coming at it from a utilitarian, not moralistic viewpoint.I didn't make anything a moral question. What could be more utilitarianthan the identification of what the absence of the rule of law, or thedereliction of duty of those that apply the law, can lead to?
>
>
>
> What are you blabbering about?
>
> Navalny commited crimes and was serving his sentence.
>

He did not commit crimes, those were made up charges to silence him up.

Putin ordered him killed, hence the prison change.

> What absence of the rule of law are you referring to?

To Putin and Trump, I suspect.

[TT]

*skriptis kirjoitti 16.2.2024 klo 20.48:
> bmoore <bmo...@nyx.net> Wrote in message:r
>> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/He was 47.
>
>
>
> It hurts you so much that he won't be able to destroy Russia now, doesn't it?
>

What's there to destroy...

[*skriptis]

TT <T...@dprk.kp> Wrote in message:r

> *skriptis kirjoitti 17.2.2024 klo 6.42:> jdeluise <jdel...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r>> Sawfish <sawfi...@gmail.com> writes:> On 2/16/24 2:40 PM, bmoore wrote:>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 11:01:07 AM UTC-8, Sawfish wrote:>>> On 2/16/24 10:38 AM, bmoore wrote:>>>> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/>>>>>>>> He was 47.>>> It's difficult to see why anyone here should acre about this.>> Well, an autocrat may well have murdered his opposition. Certainly a>> possibility, given what we know about Putin.>> You're missing my point. You're making this into a moral question that> will never be answered, cannot be answered.>> I'm coming at it from a utilitarian, not moralistic viewpoint.I didn't make anything a moral question. What could be more utilitarianthan the identification of what the absence of the rule of law, or thedereliction of duty of those that apply the law, can lead to?> > > > What are you blabbering about?> > Navalny commited crimes and was serving his sentence.> He did not commit crimes, those were made up charges to silence him up.Putin ordered him killed, hence the prison change.> What absence of the rule of law are you referring to?To Putin and Trump, I suspect.



lol

[The Iceberg]

zero difference compared with Trump or the people who attended the Jan
6th fun outing to the Capitol in the USA.

>> What absence of the rule of law are you referring to?
>
> To Putin and Trump, I suspect.

jdeluise/bmoore hate both but can't explain why. It like why jdeluise
won't mention how he supported the illegal 2003 Iraq war.

[bmoore]

On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 8:26:28 PM UTC-8, Sawfish wrote:
> On 2/16/24 2:40 PM, bmoore wrote:
> > On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 11:01:07 AM UTC-8, Sawfish wrote:
> >> On 2/16/24 10:38 AM, bmoore wrote:
> >>> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/
> >>>
> >>> He was 47.
> >> It's difficult to see why anyone here should acre about this.
> > Well, an autocrat may well have murdered his opposition. Certainly a possibility, given what we know about Putin.
> You're missing my point. You're making this into a moral question that
> will never be answered, cannot be answered.
>
> I'm coming at it from a utilitarian, not moralistic viewpoint.

You don't mind that Putin murders people who try to cross him? I know, it's way over there in Russia, but still...

[*skriptis]

bmoore <bmo...@nyx.net> Wrote in message:r

> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 8:26:28 PM UTC-8, Sawfish wrote:> On 2/16/24 2:40 PM, bmoore wrote: > > On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 11:01:07 AM UTC-8, Sawfish wrote: > >> On 2/16/24 10:38 AM, bmoore wrote: > >>> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/ > >>> > >>> He was 47. > >> It's difficult to see why anyone here should acre about this. > > Well, an autocrat may well have murdered his opposition. Certainly a possibility, given what we know about Putin.> You're missing my point. You're making this into a moral question that > will never be answered, cannot be answered. > > I'm coming at it from a utilitarian, not moralistic viewpoint. You don't mind that Putin murders people who try to cross him? I know, it's way over there in Russia, but still...

A birdie told you that Putin killed him?

Or was it Jewish owned media?

[Pelle Svanslös]

On 17.2.2024 16.52, *skriptis wrote:
> bmoore <bmo...@nyx.net> Wrote in message:r
>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 8:26:28 PM UTC-8, Sawfish wrote:> On 2/16/24 2:40 PM, bmoore wrote: > > On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 11:01:07 AM UTC-8, Sawfish wrote: > >> On 2/16/24 10:38 AM, bmoore wrote: > >>> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/ > >>> > >>> He was 47. > >> It's difficult to see why anyone here should acre about this. > > Well, an autocrat may well have murdered his opposition. Certainly a possibility, given what we know about Putin.> You're missing my point. You're making this into a moral question that > will never be answered, cannot be answered. > > I'm coming at it from a utilitarian, not moralistic viewpoint. You don't mind that Putin murders people who try to cross him? I know, it's way over there in Russia, but still...
>
>
>
> A birdie told you that Putin killed him?

As with his own two hands.

[bmoore]

Riiight. He must have tripped. Believe whatever you want but don't count on anyone to agree.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/02/16/canadas-un-ambassador-on-putins-hit-list-this-is-a-regime-that-murders-its-opponents-00142028

Rae said Navalny’s death sends a “critical message” to global leaders gathering in Munch for an annual defense conference this weekend that a “horrendously destructive tyrant remains in charge of a significant government in the world.”

Russia’s tyranny is causing enormous hardship to its own people, and to the people of the world, Rae said. “You don’t succeed against tyrants by appeasing them. You succeed against tyrants by defeating them.”

Navalny, 47, who was seen around the world as the most significant domestic political opponent to Putin, is reported to have died in a Siberian prison today.

It comes a week ahead of the two-year anniversary of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and a month ahead of the presidential election.

Rae said Navalny joins a long list of regime opponents “whose death over which Putin has presided.”

Many of those who fell out of Putin’s favor died under mysterious circumstances. The ambassador made a list: Businessman Boris Berezovsky was found dead in his home in 2013, former deputy prime minister Boris Nemtsov was shot dead near the Kremlin in 2015, former Russian press minister Mikhail Lesin died from blunt-force trauma in 2015, journalist Anna Politkovskaya was murdered in an elevator in 2006 and secret service defector Alexander Litvinenko was poisoned to death with polonium the same year.

More recently, Yevgeny Prigozhin, leader of the Wagner mercenary group who attempted and failed at a coup, died in a jet plane crash near Moscow.

“It’s astonishing the number of people who have been killed,” Rae said “It’s incredible. This is a regime that murders its opponents.

[*skriptis]

bmoore <bmo...@nyx.net> Wrote in message:r

> On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 6:53:00 AM UTC-8, *skriptis wrote:> bmoore <bmo...@nyx.net> Wrote in message:r> > On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 8:26:28 PM UTC-8, Sawfish wrote:> On 2/16/24 2:40 PM, bmoore wrote: > > On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 11:01:07 AM UTC-8, Sawfish wrote: > >> On 2/16/24 10:38 AM, bmoore wrote: > >>> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/ > >>> > >>> He was 47. > >> It's difficult to see why anyone here should acre about this. > > Well, an autocrat may well have murdered his opposition. Certainly a possibility, given what we know about Putin.> You're missing my point. You're making this into a moral question that > will never be answered, cannot be answered. > > I'm coming at it from a utilitarian, not moralistic viewpoint. You don't mind that Putin murders people who try to cross him? I know, it's way over there in Russia, but still...> A birdie told you that Putin killed him? > > Or was it Jewish owned media?Riiight. He must have tripped. Believe whatever you want but don't count on anyone to agree. https://www.politico.com/news/2024/02/16/canadas-un-ambassador-on-putins-hit-list-this-is-a-regime-that-murders-its-opponents-00142028Rae said Navalny’s death sends a “critical message” to global leaders gathering in Munch for an annual defense conference this weekend that a “horrendously destructive tyrant remains in charge of a significant government in the world.”Russia’s tyranny is causing enormous hardship to its own people, and to the people of the world, Rae said. “You don’t succeed against tyrants by appeasing them. You succeed against tyrants by defeating them.”Navalny, 47, who was seen around the world as the most significant domestic political opponent to Putin, is reported to have died in a Siberian prison today.It comes a week ahead of the two-year anniversary of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and a month ahead of the presidential election.Rae said Navalny joins a long list of regime opponents “whose death over which Putin has presided.”Many of those who fell out of Putin’s favor died under mysterious circumstances. The ambassador made a list: Businessman Boris Berezovsky was found dead in his home in 2013, former deputy prime minister Boris Nemtsov was shot dead near the Kremlin in 2015, former Russian press minister Mikhail Lesin died from blunt-force trauma in 2015, journalist Anna Politkovskaya was murdered in an elevator in 2006 and secret service defector Alexander Litvinenko was poisoned to death with polonium the same year.More recently, Yevgeny Prigozhin, leader of the Wagner mercenary group who attempted and failed at a coup, died in a jet plane crash near Moscow.“It’s astonishing the number of people who have been killed,” Rae said “It’s incredible. This is a regime that murders its opponents.




Politico, lol

[bmoore]

It's common practice around here to deny the most likely conclusion, or at least admit that it's possible. No logic or thought involved. Oh well.

[bmoore]

Twistis, lolouder.

[*skriptis]

bmoore <bmo...@nyx.net> Wrote in message:r
> On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 7:33:55 AM UTC-8, *skriptis wrote:> bmoore <bmo...@nyx.net> Wrote in message:r> > On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 6:53:00 AM UTC-8, *skriptis wrote:> bmoore <bmo...@nyx.net> Wrote in message:r> > On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 8:26:28 PM UTC-8, Sawfish wrote:> On 2/16/24 2:40 PM, bmoore wrote: > > On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 11:01:07 AM UTC-8, Sawfish wrote: > >> On 2/16/24 10:38 AM, bmoore wrote: > >>> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/ > >>> > >>> He was 47. > >> It's difficult to see why anyone here should acre about this. > > Well, an autocrat may well have murdered his opposition. Certainly a possibility, given what we know about Putin.> You're missing my point. You're making this into a moral question that > will never be answered, cannot be answered. > > I'm coming at it from a utilitarian, not moralistic viewpoint. You don't mind that Putin murders people who try to cross him? I know, it's way over there in Russia, but still...> A birdie told you that Putin killed him? > > Or was it Jewish owned media?Riiight. He must have tripped. Believe whatever you want but don't count on anyone to agree. https://www.politico.com/news/2024/02/16/canadas-un-ambassador-on-putins-hit-list-this-is-a-regime-that-murders-its-opponents-00142028Rae said Navalny’s death sends a “critical message” to global leaders gathering in Munch for an annual defense conference this weekend that a “horrendously destructive tyrant remains in charge of a significant government in the world.”Russia’s tyranny is causing enormous hardship to its own people, and to the people of the world, Rae said. “You don’t succeed against tyrants by appeasing them. You succeed against tyrants by defeating them.”Navalny, 47, who was seen around the world as the most significant domestic political opponent to Putin, is reported to have died in a Siberian prison today.It comes a week ahead of the two-year anniversary of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and a month ahead of the presidential election.Rae said Navalny joins a long list of regime opponents “whose death over which Putin has presided.”Many of those who fell out of Putin’s favor died under mysterious circumstances. The ambassador made a list: Businessman Boris Berezovsky was found dead in his home in 2013, former deputy prime minister Boris Nemtsov was shot dead near the Kremlin in 2015, former Russian press minister Mikhail Lesin died from blunt-force trauma in 2015, journalist Anna Politkovskaya was murdered in an elevator in 2006 and secret service defector Alexander Litvinenko was poisoned to death with polonium the same year.More recently, Yevgeny Prigozhin, leader of the Wagner mercenary group who attempted and failed at a coup, died in a jet plane crash near Moscow.“It’s astonishing the number of people who have been killed,” Rae said “It’s incredible. This is a regime that murders its opponents. > > > > > Politico, lolTwistis, lolouder.

Will you finally post something of significance if you want to discuss?

Or not?

[Sawfish]

Unless I misread this, I was addressing what bmoore said.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"He who talks the talk must also walk the walk."

--Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[bmoore]

You really don't find it significant that Putin's main opponent died at age 47 in a Siberian prison, after being transferred from another prison?

This is not the first time such things have happened.

>
> Or not?

[Sawfish]

Not really, and here's why.

We'll never know with even a chance of certainty whether he was murdered
or not. You can choose to believe published innuendo and have a good
time carping, maybe, but we just won't *know* to my satisfaction, and I
hope that you're fairly skeptical too, b. I *think* you are...

Now, given that, and the fact that it's an internecine event concerning
a country we have very little to do with directly, at best, I don't
think it makes any sense, at all, to get on one side or the other of
this issue. It's much less an issue than when a large chunk of Chinese
rocketry falls to earth and everyone can just cross their fingers and
rub their rabbit's foot.

https://news.usni.org/2023/03/09/chinese-rocket-that-delivered-military-spy-satellites-breaks-up-over-texas#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20track%2C%20the,to%20the%20Texas%20Demographic%20Center.

To me, this has utilitarian implications where as minor national
squabbles do not.

Just sayin'.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandpa, not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car."

--Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Sawfish]

It's possible, for sure, and maybe even likely. But I sure don't see the
need to dwell on it simply because there's nothing in it for us, other a
topic to argue over.

But I guess that's what we're all here for, huh?...

[Sawfish]

OK. I see what's going on...same old, same old. The topic could have
been Justin Troudeau wearing plaids and stripes together.

I'm slow on the uptake this AM...

--
--Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I wouldn't want to belong to a club that would accept someone like me
as a member." --G. Marx

[The Iceberg]

On 17/02/2024 16:30, Sawfish wrote:
> On 2/16/24 8:40 PM, jdeluise wrote:
>> Sawfish <sawfi...@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 2/16/24 2:40 PM, bmoore wrote:
>>>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 11:01:07 AM UTC-8, Sawfish wrote:
>>>>> On 2/16/24 10:38 AM, bmoore wrote:
>>>>>> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He was 47.
>>>>> It's difficult to see why anyone here should acre about this.
>>>> Well, an autocrat may well have murdered his opposition. Certainly a
>>>> possibility, given what we know about Putin.
>>> You're missing my point. You're making this into a moral question that
>>> will never be answered, cannot be answered.
>>>
>>> I'm coming at it from a utilitarian, not moralistic viewpoint.
>> I didn't make anything a moral question.  What could be more utilitarian
>> than the identification of what the absence of the rule of law, or the
>> dereliction of duty of those that apply the law, can lead to?
>
> Unless I misread this, I was addressing what bmoore said.

bmoore and jdeluise are "very good friends"

[The Iceberg]

what does the leader of your country behave like??!

[The Iceberg]

On 17/02/2024 16:43, Sawfish wrote:
> On 2/17/24 7:37 AM, bmoore wrote:
>> On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 7:13:12 AM UTC-8, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
>>> On 17.2.2024 16.52, *skriptis wrote:
>>>> bmoore <bmo...@nyx.net> Wrote in message:r
>>>>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 8:26:28 PM UTC-8, Sawfish wrote:>
>>>>> On 2/16/24 2:40 PM, bmoore wrote: > > On Friday, February 16, 2024
>>>>> at 11:01:07 AM UTC-8, Sawfish wrote: > >> On 2/16/24 10:38 AM,
>>>>> bmoore wrote: > >>>
>>>>> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/ > >>> > >>> He was 47. > >> It's difficult to see why anyone here should acre about this. > > Well, an autocrat may well have murdered his opposition. Certainly a possibility, given what we know about Putin.> You're missing my point. You're making this into a moral question that > will never be answered, cannot be answered. > > I'm coming at it from a utilitarian, not moralistic viewpoint. You don't mind that Putin murders people who try to cross him? I know, it's way over there in Russia, but still...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A birdie told you that Putin killed him?
>>> As with his own two hands.
>> It's common practice around here to deny the most likely conclusion,
>> or at least admit that it's possible. No logic or thought involved. Oh
>> well.
>
> It's possible, for sure, and maybe even likely. But I sure don't see the
> need to dwell on it simply because there's nothing in it for us, other a
> topic to argue over.
>
> But I guess that's what we're all here for, huh?...

yet you keep denying it's highly likely that Trump is being persecuted &
prosecuted solely for political reasons by the Biden government!

[The Iceberg]

yet you keep denying Trump is being persecuted and prosecuted solely for
political reasons!

[Sawfish]

Oh, no. I've never said that, Ice. It's a war and Trump gives them
ammunition all the time. You can see that for sure.

Look. I feel about the same as you do about people like Biden and his
ilk, but just because Trump is his enemy does not make Trump OK, by any
stretch. Trump's got his own brand of shit.

--
--Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The big print gives it to you; the small print takes it away."

Andy, from Amos 'n' Andy, on legal contracts...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[jdeluise]

Sawfish <sawfi...@gmail.com> writes:

> Oh, no. I've never said that, Ice. It's a war and Trump gives them
> ammunition all the time. You can see that for sure.
>
> Look. I feel about the same as you do about people like Biden and his
> ilk, but just because Trump is his enemy does not make Trump OK, by
> any stretch. Trump's got his own brand of shit.

Oddly, I'd be willing to bet you have a lot more in common with Biden
than Trump when it comes to principles, values and beliefs. You're just
so enmeshed in "culture war" you can't admit it.

[jdeluise]

Sawfish <sawfi...@gmail.com> writes:

> On 2/16/24 8:40 PM, jdeluise wrote:
>> Sawfish <sawfi...@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 2/16/24 2:40 PM, bmoore wrote:
>>>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 11:01:07 AM UTC-8, Sawfish wrote:
>>>>> On 2/16/24 10:38 AM, bmoore wrote:
>>>>>> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He was 47.
>>>>> It's difficult to see why anyone here should acre about this.
>>>> Well, an autocrat may well have murdered his opposition. Certainly
>>>> a possibility, given what we know about Putin.
>>> You're missing my point. You're making this into a moral question
>>> that will never be answered, cannot be answered.
>>>
>>> I'm coming at it from a utilitarian, not moralistic viewpoint.
>> I didn't make anything a moral question. What could be more
>> utilitarian than the identification of what the absence of the rule
>> of law, or the dereliction of duty of those that apply the law, can
>> lead to?
>
> Unless I misread this, I was addressing what bmoore said.

True, my fault.

[Sawfish]

I doubt that Trump has any values other than his own success. Biden
*may* have some values, somewhere, but they take a back seat to getting
elected. So if he has them, I can't tell what they are, to my satisfaction.

I don't see why you need to put me into either the Trump basket or the
Biden basket, j. Things that are important to me mostly happen much
closer to me, at the state/local level. Local policies are something I
have to live with daily. Whether the US sends money to Israel and
Ukraine doesn't affect me as immediately. I might think it's a poor
idea, so far a value for dollars, but it's less important to me than
landlord-tenant laws here in PDX.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Shit <-----------------------------------------------------> Shinola
"Which is which?" --Sawfish

[TT]

Why can't you people pick a nominee that can walk & chew gum at the same
time...

Someone like Blinken, for example.

[*skriptis]

TT <T...@dprk.kp> Wrote in message:r

> jdeluise kirjoitti 17.2.2024 klo 23.07:> Sawfish <sawfi...@gmail.com> writes:> >> Oh, no. I've never said that, Ice. It's a war and Trump gives them>> ammunition all the time. You can see that for sure.>>>> Look. I feel about the same as you do about people like Biden and his>> ilk, but just because Trump is his enemy does not make Trump OK, by>> any stretch. Trump's got his own brand of shit.> > Oddly, I'd be willing to bet you have a lot more in common with Biden> than Trump when it comes to principles, values and beliefs. You're just> so enmeshed in "culture war" you can't admit it.Why can't you people pick a nominee that can walk & chew gum at the same time...Someone like Blinken, for example.


Of course you want Jew.

[The Iceberg]

On 17/02/2024 03:10, jdeluise wrote:
> Sawfish <sawfi...@gmail.com> writes:
>

>> On 2/16/24 10:38 AM, bmoore wrote:
>>> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/
>>>
>>> He was 47.
>>
>> It's difficult to see why  anyone here should acre about this.
>

> The timing is great, a good reminder to the US Supreme Court what Trump
> is asking them permission to do (via "presidential immunity").

well every other President has been given that, so that's fair enough.
Wonder if Russia could offer him political asylum, as the USA under the
Democrats doesn't allow political opponents of the government at all.

[bmoore]

On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 8:43:14 AM UTC-8, Sawfish wrote:
> On 2/17/24 7:37 AM, bmoore wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 7:13:12 AM UTC-8, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
> >> On 17.2.2024 16.52, *skriptis wrote:
> >>> bmoore <bmo...@nyx.net> Wrote in message:r
> >>>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 8:26:28 PM UTC-8, Sawfish wrote:> On 2/16/24 2:40 PM, bmoore wrote: > > On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 11:01:07 AM UTC-8, Sawfish wrote: > >> On 2/16/24 10:38 AM, bmoore wrote: > >>> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-putin-critic-dies-in-prison/72625624007/ > >>> > >>> He was 47. > >> It's difficult to see why anyone here should acre about this. > > Well, an autocrat may well have murdered his opposition. Certainly a possibility, given what we know about Putin.> You're missing my point. You're making this into a moral question that > will never be answered, cannot be answered. > > I'm coming at it from a utilitarian, not moralistic viewpoint. You don't mind that Putin murders people who try to cross him? I know, it's way over there in Russia, but still...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> A birdie told you that Putin killed him?
> >> As with his own two hands.
> > It's common practice around here to deny the most likely conclusion, or at least admit that it's possible. No logic or thought involved. Oh well.
> It's possible, for sure, and maybe even likely. But I sure don't see the
> need to dwell on it simply because there's nothing in it for us, other a
> topic to argue over.

I don't think that Russia is exactly a minor player on the world stage.

[guypers]

Appeasement: Did it work?

[The Iceberg]

HAAHHAHAHAHHA! good one

[The Iceberg]

do you mean like with Mexico, Iran? cos if you're talking about Russia,
organising a US backed coup in 2014 against their pro-Russian
democratically elected president and then provoking a proxy war with
them when you get back in power after the world-peace-prize guy(Trump)
leaves, is much more a case of aggression than appeasement.

[bmoore]

Not really, just tired of the lazy practice of "refuting" an argument by dismissing the publication as LOL and leaving it at that, as Twistis and others here like to do.

[Sawfish]

Yes, at the level you're talking about on RST, it's basically sniping.

Every now and then people will engage and kick it around for a while,
and I almost always get something positive from it. To stimulate this
sort of response I'll throw out an observation, and it's usually a
serious, repeated phenomenon that I've see over and over. Since I use
direct experience over statistics/studies(I find that these are
routinely "cooked" to favor the side providing them as "proof")  as the
epistemological basis for my version of reality, my stuff needs to be
tested, because, you know, the stats/studies/competing observations
might just be correct.

I'm getting less and less of this over time, which of course leads to
another observation: people are becoming increasingly entrenched in
their beliefs/illusions and want to remain that way.

Yet another cultural change to adapt to...

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"To the average American or Englishman the very name of anarchy causes a shudder, because it invariably conjures up a picture of a land terrorized by low-browed assassins with matted beards, carrying bombs in one hand and mugs of beer in the other. But as a matter of fact, there is no reason whatever to believe that, if all laws were abolished tomorrow, such swine would survive the day."

--H. L. Mencken
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[bmoore]

i have a mathematics professor friend who once took on a graduate student who insisted that the real numbers are countably infinite. If someone won't respond to basic truth, and presents no reasonable response, forget it.

[Sawfish]

I'm not sure I get this.

Doesn't something have to be *finite* to be countable, else you will
never reach the full count?

--
--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...well, I have others."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[bmoore]

Countable, to a mathematician, means something you can order. For example, the set of postive integers is infinite, but countable: 1,2,3... there is a way to order the set.

[bmoore]

https://mathinsight.org/definition/countably_infinite

Countably infinite definition

A set is countably infinite if its elements can be put in one-to-one correspondence with the set of natural numbers. In other words, one can count off all elements in the set in such a way that, even though the counting will take forever, you will get to any particular element in a finite amount of time.

For example, the set of integers {0,1,−1,2,−2,3,−3,…}
is clearly infinite. However, as suggested by the above arrangement, we can count off all the integers. Counting off every integer will take forever. But, if you specify any integer, say −10,234,872,306
, we will get to this integer in the counting process in a finite amount of time.

Sometimes, we can just use the term “countable” to mean countably infinite. But to stress that we are excluding finite sets, we usually use the term countably infinite.

Countably infinite is in contrast to uncountable, which describes a set that is so large, it cannot be counted even if we kept counting forever.

[Sawfish]

OK, thanks!

So if you were counting something the count would be ordinal, right?

--
--Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Life is a tragedy to those who feel, a comedy to those who think."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[bmoore]

Yup!

There is a fundamental difference between integers and real numbers. It gets more interesting when we try to classify rational numbers in this way.

[Sawfish]

This is very interesting, b., and it's an example of some of the
positive stuff I can get out of exchanges here.

I can now go online and look for some of the terminology. I know almost
nothing about this sort of stuff and I'd have to come up to speed to
even have a longer discussion.

Thanks!

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandpa, not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car."

--Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[bmoore]

Sure. So, are the rationals countable? :-)