Too many events in London?

[Professor X]

Don't get me wrong, as a brit i'm not complaining, and obviously the olympics was a one off. But this year we have had

Queens (arguably biggest 250 event along with Doha.)
and then 3/7 of the biggest tournaments of the year.

Wimbledon, Yec, and the olympics.

Oh, and I forgot boodles, which is sorta London ;-)

Won't be so much next year though, although looks like o2 will prob be re-contracted for another few years after 2013

[DavidW]

You want to get rid of Wimbledon then?

[*skriptis]

Boodles? Nevermid that..yes, I agree with you but then again, if
Paris(France) can have RG+Bercy(+Monte Carlo) London certainly deserves
Wimbledon+YEC+Queens.

It's all marketing and money which makes the world go around. But the
solution is bad from a global perspective just as it was bad having masters
in NYC for ages. Tennis needs to expand, but also, we can't move around
established tournaments. But YEC is not an ordinary or an established
tournament in a geographical sense. Ideally, we would be having YEC being
held in the countries/cities from which the last year's winner originated,
something like Eurosong. That would be both *fun and fair*.

Imagine headlines before the 2012 yec final.
"Next year's World Tour Finals..."Glasgow or Belgrade"

[felangey]

> Imagine headlines before the 2012 yec final.
> "Next year's World Tour Finals..."Glasgow or Belgrade"
>
>

....."Argentina or Switzerland".

[soccerfan777]

Nonsense, YEC should have never moved from Madison Square Garden. The
day it moved, it's prestige automatically went down a notch. How about
moving Wimbledon to Kenya? We need to promote tennis in Africa don't
we? We can build grass-courts there.... with all the grass growing
down there.

[Iceberg]

what a bizarre post from Prof X, mind you, he's a northerner so he
probably has issues with London and us southerners :) the fact is
London is a major international transport hub + it has all the
infrastructure necessary already. Can remember when they selected
Shanghai and thought sounded quite good, but practically it was very
difficult to get to for fans. Also the final Masters is in Paris, the
players also much prefer travelling to London rather than another
continent.

[Dave Hazelwood]

We need to move YOU back to PAKISTAN where you belong !

Oh, and take your FAT and UGLY wife with you !!!

[*skriptis]

This is a great post to show people why you belong to bottom tier
posters/thinkers around here.
Wimbledon is an istitution just as all other grand slams and big tournaments
which are international championships of some sort. USA, Canada, Italy,
China, France, etc. They aren't "movable".

YEC? An exo in its worst, or a tournament that is basically an example of a
"pro-slam" at its best.
Regardless of the position one might take here, it's a fact that YEC is a
tournament unlike any other in the ATP/ITF calendar.
It's an exception. It was created "rather artifically", it's related to the
ATP tour in general, and unlike other toutnaments it's unrelated to any
specific area in geographic sense, therefore it's a "world's" tournament.

As such, it's best suited to have it switch venues like UEFA Champions
League final,. FIFA World Cup, Euro and other continental championships or
Eurosong. And it works that way, it does switch venues, just not at the pace
one would like/feel it's best in the interest of the game.

[Sakari Lund]

On Tue, 6 Nov 2012 20:27:50 +0100, "*skriptis"
<skri...@post.t-com.hr> wrote:

>As such, it's best suited to have it switch venues like UEFA Champions
>League final,. FIFA World Cup, Euro and other continental championships or
>Eurosong. And it works that way, it does switch venues, just not at the pace
>one would like/feel it's best in the interest of the game.

Maybe they should do like Eurosong and have it in the country that won
the previous year. It would have been in Basel many times :-)

I guess it makes sense to have it a few years in the same place.

[*skriptis]

London has it all, financially+infrastructure and is close to Paris so
players preffer to travel from there, we know that and I agree.
It's just that that particular combo already happens in June. :)

My suggestions.
Paris should be scrapped or moved to February and the Tour should end with
asian swing.
Hold YEC in the last year's winner country.

Equalize women with men in grand slam tournaments.
Make them play best-of-5, or pay them 66.666% of what men earn in slams.

[*skriptis]

Few years in the same place? It's ok...the problems is when it's being held
in NYC, London, etc.. kinda unwise and weird.

Eurosong soltution sounds great to me. If they can organize 50-singers to
sing for a few days, having 8 players play few matches in one week is not
that dificult at all.

[TT]

6.11.2012 21:39, Sakari Lund kirjoitti:
> On Tue, 6 Nov 2012 20:27:50 +0100, "*skriptis"
> <skri...@post.t-com.hr> wrote:
>
>> As such, it's best suited to have it switch venues like UEFA Champions
>> League final,. FIFA World Cup, Euro and other continental championships or
>> Eurosong. And it works that way, it does switch venues, just not at the pace
>> one would like/feel it's best in the interest of the game.
>
> Maybe they should do like Eurosong and have it in the country that won
> the previous year. It would have been in Basel many times :-)
>

Or maybe not... Imagine Rafa winning it once in whatever location and
then taking it to indoor clay on Spanish bullring for the next 15 years.

[soccerfan777]

*dipshit with his usual clownish comments

>, or a tournament that is basically an example of a
> "pro-slam" at its best.
> Regardless of the position one might take here, it's a fact that YEC is a
> tournament unlike any other in the ATP/ITF calendar.
> It's an exception. It was created "rather artifically", it's related to the
> ATP tour in general, and unlike other toutnaments it's unrelated to any
> specific area in geographic sense, therefore it's a "world's" tournament.
>
> As such, it's best suited to have it switch venues like UEFA Champions
> League final,.

Why not make it even funnier? 50% grass andf 50% clay? I am sure all
the *dipshits will buy tickets immediately.

>FIFA World Cup, Euro and other continental championships or
> Eurosong. And it works that way, it does switch venues, just not at the pace

> one would like/feel it's best in the interest of the game.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[soccerfan777]

YEC was officially the indoor carpet championships of the world. It
was a fast surface where the best and most powerful players always
won. And it was especially favorable to players who shone on indoor
carpet which was a major surface back then No wonder it was dominated
by McEnroe, Lendl and Becker. They got rid of carpet, moved it out of
NY and made it look silly. It is still considered the 5th biggest
tournament but it does not have the same charm.

It was held for 13 years in NY in a gigantic stadium and was covered
as a major event. Moving it out NYC was a big mistake, both Lendl and
McEnroe have attributed to that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATP_World_Tour_Finals#Venues

Tokyo 1970 Carpet Tokyo Metropolitan Gymnasium 6,500
Paris 1971 Stade Pierre de Coubertin 5,000
Barcelona 1972 Palau Blaugrana 5,700
Boston 1973 Boston Garden 14,900
Melbourne 1974 Grass Kooyong Stadium 8,500
Stockholm 1975 Carpet Kungliga tennishallen 6,000
Houston 1976 The Summit 16,300
New York City 1977–1989 Madison Square Garden 18,000
Frankfurt 1990–1995 Festhalle Frankfurt 12,000
Hanover 1996–1999 Carpet (1996)
Indoor Hard (1997–99) Hanover fairground 15,000
Lisbon 2000 Indoor Hard Pavilhão Atlântico 12,000
Sydney 2001 Acer Arena 17,500
Shanghai 2002 SNIEC
Houston 2003–2004 Outdoor Hard Westside Tennis Club 5,240
Shanghai 2005–2008 Carpet (2005)
Indoor Hard (2006–08) Qizhong City Arena 15,000
London 2009–2013 Indoor Hard O2 Arena[4] 17,500

[Sakari Lund]

He would have to win it somewhere else first, and that seems to be a
big problem.

And second, as Robbie Koenig and his friend were discussing today
(they were actually talking about the location and surface issues
today) YEC should be played on HC, because all the autumn is played on
HC, so it is not a good idea to change the surface for YEC.

[TT]

6.11.2012 23:55, Sakari Lund kirjoitti:
> On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 23:18:32 +0200, TT <as...@dprk.kp> wrote:
>
>> 6.11.2012 21:39, Sakari Lund kirjoitti:
>>> On Tue, 6 Nov 2012 20:27:50 +0100, "*skriptis"
>>> <skri...@post.t-com.hr> wrote:
>>>
>>>> As such, it's best suited to have it switch venues like UEFA Champions
>>>> League final,. FIFA World Cup, Euro and other continental championships or
>>>> Eurosong. And it works that way, it does switch venues, just not at the pace
>>>> one would like/feel it's best in the interest of the game.
>>>
>>> Maybe they should do like Eurosong and have it in the country that won
>>> the previous year. It would have been in Basel many times :-)
>>>
>>
>> Or maybe not... Imagine Rafa winning it once in whatever location and
>> then taking it to indoor clay on Spanish bullring for the next 15 years.
>
> He would have to win it somewhere else first, and that seems to be a
> big problem.
>

Not if was played say for example in Argentine on clay in 2006.

> And second, as Robbie Koenig and his friend were discussing today
> (they were actually talking about the location and surface issues
> today) YEC should be played on HC, because all the autumn is played on
> HC, so it is not a good idea to change the surface for YEC.
>

And Rafa says it doesn't make sense to play it on indoors hard if it's
supposed to be end of year event while players qualify on outdoors hard,
grass and clay. It's irrelevant event now.

But we see that commentators are at least considering that it would be
played on different conditions, so there's a reason why they're talking
about that.

DC finals are played on any surface but everybody is ok with it.

[Joe Ramirez]

The exact surface used for the YEC is less important than the style of
tennis associated with the event. The YEC has almost always been an
indoor tournament (the outdoor years in Houston felt very inauthentic,
IMO); indeed, with the demise of the WCT, the elimination of the semi-
bogus Grand Slam Cup, and the continual problems with scheduling
tournaments after the U.S. Open, the YEC is really the last remaining
indoor event of significance. Indoor tennis traditionally has been
fast and attack-oriented. There are plenty of slow and slower events
on the tour already; no need to deracinate the YEC just to add another.

[TT]

I reckon you voted already... how long did it take?

[Joe Ramirez]

Counting parking the car and walking to and from the parking lot?
Maybe 10 minutes. Not counting that? Five minutes.

[TT]

That's horrible. :)

[Sakari Lund]

There was once again someone on TV today saying that there were 6
pages of paper to fill when you go to vote. I hear it every time
during US elections, but it is so different from here. We have always
the number of one candidate to fill in the card, and that's it.

What are all the questions there? What kind of flowers do you want in
the window a city hall or what?

[Joe Ramirez]

Every state has a different ballot (and usually every county within a
state, due to local races). If your precinct (voting district) uses
electronic voting machines, there are no papers to fill out.
Typically, all you have to do is sign your name on a card, then cast
your votes digitally. If your precinct still uses some form of paper
ballot, then its length will depend on the number of races and the
number of referenda or initiatives (both of these terms refer to
legislative questions that will be decided by popular vote). E.g.,
should gay marriage be approved? Should a ceiling on property taxes be
imposed? Should the county issue bonds to finance a new transportation
project? Some places have many such questions for voters to answer,
because their states tend to use those devices frequently to decide
major public policy issues. But there were zero referenda on my ballot
-- just the normal races for public office.

[Court_1]

On Nov 6, 5:20 pm, TT <as...@dprk.kp> wrote:

> 6.11.2012 23:55, Sakari Lund kirjoitti:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 23:18:32 +0200, TT <as...@dprk.kp> wrote:
>
> >> 6.11.2012 21:39, Sakari Lund kirjoitti:
> >>> On Tue, 6 Nov 2012 20:27:50 +0100, "*skriptis"
> >>> <skrip...@post.t-com.hr> wrote:
>
> >>>> As such, it's best suited to have it switch venues like UEFA Champions
> >>>> League final,. FIFA World Cup, Euro and other continental championships or
> >>>> Eurosong. And it works that way, it does switch venues, just not at the pace
> >>>> one would like/feel it's best in the interest of the game.
>
> >>> Maybe they should do like Eurosong and have it in the country that won
> >>> the previous year. It would have been in Basel many times  :-)
>
> >> Or maybe not... Imagine Rafa winning it once in whatever location and
> >> then taking it to indoor clay on Spanish bullring for the next 15 years.
>
> > He would have to win it somewhere else first, and that seems to be a
> > big problem.
>
> Not if was played say for example in Argentine on clay in 2006.
>
> > And second, as Robbie Koenig and his friend were discussing today
> > (they were actually talking about the location and surface issues
> > today) YEC should be played on HC, because all the autumn is played on
> > HC, so it is not a good idea to change the surface for YEC.
>
> And Rafa says it doesn't make sense to play it on indoors hard if it's
> supposed to be end of year event while players qualify on outdoors hard,
> grass and clay. It's irrelevant event now.

WTH are you talking about? The couple of events before the WTF are on
indoor HC--i.e. Basel, Paris. The WTF indoor HC is supposed to be
exactly like the Paris indoor HC. Rafa says? Who cares what he says?
If it were up to him all events would be on outdoor clay. That is not
how it works. He has to be able to play on indoor hc as well and he
has not proven that he can very well. The WTF is far from an
irrelevant event. You just want everybody to believe that because Mr.
"silent suspension" can't win there.
As long as it has 1500 points attached to it, it is far from
irrelevant.

[TT]

Yeah, you have one day to vote.

Quite some questions if you're not prepared...

[Iceberg]

not bad ideas!

[TT]

It's WTF actually.

[Iceberg]

don't forget the 6 hours outside the booth threatening other voters to
vote Obama, in classic violent Fedfan style! ;)

[Iceberg]

thanks for the interesting info, wondered why the ballot papers would
be so long.

[phamqu...@optusnet.com.au]

I think there's a good case for siting it permanently in Asia, since the last part of the season is there (Paris will have to be moved). Asia's fan base is growing and it will become less and less tenable not to have a permanent major event there, but a fifth slam is rather out of the question due to tennis traditions.

[Ted S.]

On Tue, 6 Nov 2012 15:11:57 -0800 (PST), Joe Ramirez wrote:

> Every state has a different ballot (and usually every county within a
> state, due to local races). If your precinct (voting district) uses
> electronic voting machines, there are no papers to fill out.
> Typically, all you have to do is sign your name on a card, then cast
> your votes digitally. If your precinct still uses some form of paper
> ballot, then its length will depend on the number of races and the
> number of referenda or initiatives (both of these terms refer to
> legislative questions that will be decided by popular vote). E.g.,
> should gay marriage be approved? Should a ceiling on property taxes
> be imposed? Should the county issue bonds to finance a new
> transportation project? Some places have many such questions for
> voters to answer, because their states tend to use those devices
> frequently to decide major public policy issues. But there were zero
> referenda on my ballot -- just the normal races for public office.

In my small town in New York, we use a ballot on card stock that's
roughly the size of an A3 sheet, I'd guess. It's roughly a grid with
the various races across the top, and the political parties along the
side. We had President, US House, US Senate, state Assembly and Senate
races, a judge race, and a town councillor running unopposed to fill out
the term of one who died earlier this year. There was also one
referendum on changing the county charter, so eight races overall. Each
space within the grid has the name of the candidate from that particular
party running for that particular office, if there is one, and a little
oval to fill in. When you're finished filling out the ballot, you feed
it into an electronic tabulator (although they can check the physical
ballots if there has to be a recount).

The main difficulty with US elections, I think, is that we run them all
(executive, legislative, state and local) at the same more or less.
(Some local races are generally in odd-numbered years, with probably a
majority of states having their governors' races held two years apart
from the presidential race.) I don't know that having separate days for
the various levels of elections would make things better; turnout would
probably decrease precipitously.

--
Ted Schuerzinger
tedstennis at myrealbox dot com
If you're afraid of the ball, don't sit in the front row. --Anastasia
Rodionova