So why didn't Becker ever win AO on grass?
Raja, The Great
1985). But he loses in the second round to none other the great
Michiel Schapers (who the fuck is Schapers)
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Sc/M/Michiel-Schapers.aspx
Michiel Shapers never won a ATP title... FUCK! How can Becker lose to
this chump?
There is no AO in 1986... a waste really.
AO - 1987 is still on grass and held in January 1987. Becker still
loses early in the 4th round to none other the great Wally Masur...
WTF happened?
Both 1985 and 1987, his great grass court rival Stefan Edberg won it.
Rodjk #613
Two good reasons. One is that the grass at Kooyong was very different
than the grass at Wimbledon. Second is that Becker was very
inconsistent.
He played great in 84 at Wimbledon and was unlucky to be injured. 85
and 86 he won Wimbledon, 87 crashed out in the second round.
Consistency was never his strong point, and he was too prone to having
a bad day and bombing out.
Rodjk #613
stephenJ
> In 1985 AO he was the current Wimbledon Champion (AO was held in Dec
> 1985). But he loses in the second round to none other the great
> Michiel Schapers (who the fuck is Schapers)
>
> http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Sc/M/Michiel-Schapers.aspx
> Michiel Shapers never won a ATP title... FUCK! How can Becker lose to
> this chump?
>
> There is no AO in 1986... a waste really.
AO was far less prestigious back then and some top guys, like Becker,
just didn't take it seriously.
Lendl changed that. When the AO switched to HC he played it and promoted
it, and that helped it regain full slam status.
A shame, though, because as others have noted, the Kooyong grass could
produce excellent tennis.
--
When the facts change,
one's opinion ought to change.
- John Maynard Keynes
Raja, The Great
> Raja, The Great wrote:
> > In 1985 AO he was the current Wimbledon Champion (AO was held in Dec
> > 1985). But he loses in the second round to none other the great
> > Michiel Schapers (who the fuck is Schapers)
>
> >http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Sc/M/Michiel-Schapers.aspx
> > Michiel Shapers never won a ATP title... FUCK! How can Becker lose to
> > this chump?
>
> > There is no AO in 1986... a waste really.
>
> AO was far less prestigious back then and some top guys, like Becker,
> just didn't take it seriously.
>
> Lendl changed that. When the AO switched to HC he played it and promoted
> it, and that helped it regain full slam status.
Also Steffi Graf promoted it a lot. Aussies always liked her for that.
Quincy
> On Feb 25, 10:56 am, "Raja, The Great" <zepflo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > In 1985 AO he was the current Wimbledon Champion (AO was held in Dec
> > 1985). But he loses in the second round to none other the great
> > Michiel Schapers (who the fuck is Schapers)
>
> >http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Sc/M/Michiel-Schapers.aspx
> > Michiel Shapers never won a ATP title... FUCK! How can Becker lose to
> > this chump?
>
> > There is no AO in 1986... a waste really.
>
> > AO - 1987 is still on grass and held in January 1987. Becker still
> > loses early in the 4th round to none other the great Wally Masur...
> > WTF happened?
>
> > Both 1985 and 1987, his great grass court rival Stefan Edberg won it.
>
> Two good reasons. One is that the grass at Kooyong was very different
> than the grass at Wimbledon. Second is that Becker was very
> inconsistent.
> He played great in 84 at Wimbledon and was unlucky to be injured. 85
> and 86 he won Wimbledon,
Yeah... he played a fantastic Wimbledon 1984, being 16 years (!!!) old
and went home because a horrible injury 1-1 sets against a big name at
that time (Scanlon).
He stayed undefeated his first year in Wimbledon and so he was the
next two years.
His first 17 matches at all in Wimbledon he was undefeated, this is
absolutely GOATish, never happened before and after.
Rafael Nadal did something similar in Paris at the FO so Becker and
Nadal are comparable in many ways. But Becker never picked his ass, of
course.
stephenJ
> On Feb 25, 11:44 am, stephenJ <sjar...@pop.com> wrote:
>> Raja, The Great wrote:
>>> In 1985 AO he was the current Wimbledon Champion (AO was held in Dec
>>> 1985). But he loses in the second round to none other the great
>>> Michiel Schapers (who the fuck is Schapers)
>>> http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Sc/M/Michiel-Schapers.aspx
>>> Michiel Shapers never won a ATP title... FUCK! How can Becker lose to
>>> this chump?
>>> There is no AO in 1986... a waste really.
>> AO was far less prestigious back then and some top guys, like Becker,
>> just didn't take it seriously.
>>
>> Lendl changed that. When the AO switched to HC he played it and promoted
>> it, and that helped it regain full slam status.
>
> Also Steffi Graf promoted it a lot.
Honestly, no one cared about graf. men's tennis is what matters most,
and lendl set the example that got the top guys motivated to play their
best at the AO.
--
It is easier to win over people to pacifism than socialism.
We should work first for pacifism, and only later for socialism.
- Albert Einstein
Raja, The Great
> Raja, The Great wrote:
> > On Feb 25, 11:44 am, stephenJ <sjar...@pop.com> wrote:
> >> Raja, The Great wrote:
> >>> In 1985 AO he was the current Wimbledon Champion (AO was held in Dec
> >>> 1985). But he loses in the second round to none other the great
> >>> Michiel Schapers (who the fuck is Schapers)
> >>>http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Sc/M/Michiel-Schapers.aspx
> >>> Michiel Shapers never won a ATP title... FUCK! How can Becker lose to
> >>> this chump?
> >>> There is no AO in 1986... a waste really.
> >> AO was far less prestigious back then and some top guys, like Becker,
> >> just didn't take it seriously.
>
> >> Lendl changed that. When the AO switched to HC he played it and promoted
> >> it, and that helped it regain full slam status.
>
> > Also Steffi Graf promoted it a lot.
>
> Honestly, no one cared about graf. men's tennis is what matters most,
stephenJ
not really. we all know that the very best women's players would get
crushed by even the #1000 male player, so women's tennis is far inferior
in overall quality, and therefore is of less intrinsic interest.
--
"if federal judges have the final word over its meaning,
the Constitution would be a mere thing of wax in the hands
of the judiciary, which they may twist and shape into any form
they please".
- Thomas Jefferson
arnab.z@gmail
> Raja, The Great wrote:
> > On Feb 25, 12:58 pm, stephenJ <sjar...@pop.com> wrote:
> >> Raja, The Great wrote:
> >>> On Feb 25, 11:44 am, stephenJ <sjar...@pop.com> wrote:
> >>>> Raja, The Great wrote:
> >>>>> In 1985 AO he was the current Wimbledon Champion (AO was held in Dec
> >>>>> 1985). But he loses in the second round to none other the great
> >>>>> Michiel Schapers (who the fuck is Schapers)
> >>>>>http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Sc/M/Michiel-Schapers.aspx
> >>>>> Michiel Shapers never won a ATP title... FUCK! How can Becker lose to
> >>>>> this chump?
> >>>>> There is no AO in 1986... a waste really.
> >>>> AO was far less prestigious back then and some top guys, like Becker,
> >>>> just didn't take it seriously.
> >>>> Lendl changed that. When the AO switched to HC he played it and promoted
> >>>> it, and that helped it regain full slam status.
> >>> Also Steffi Graf promoted it a lot.
> >> Honestly, no one cared about graf. men's tennis is what matters most,
> > Thats very sexist.
>
> not really. we all know that the very best women's players would get
> crushed by even the #1000 male player, so women's tennis is far inferior
> in overall quality, and therefore is of less intrinsic interest.
But if someone considers women's tennis to be in a completely
different category than men's tennis, it can be intrinsically
interesting as well. This is especially true for ardent fans of
women's tennis.
Manco
prestige status.
Manco
the majors.
Raja, The Great
> Yes have to give credit to Lendl for bring the AO back to full-
> prestige status.
yep.
Raja, The Great
> the majors.
It depends. Some of the finals have high quality... for example the
2007 YEC final between Henin and Sharapova, the 1995 USO final between
Graf and Seles... those were really high quality matches.
stephenJ
to me, it's silly to consider it to be in a completely different
category, because, well, it's all tennis.
but, that doesn't mean i don't find women's tennis to be interesting. i
do. just not nearly as much so as the men's tennis.
--
Even if U.S. atom bombs were dropped on China and blasted
a hole in the earth or blew it to pieces, this might be
a big thing for the solar system, but it would still be
an insignificant matter as far as the universe as a whole
is concerned.
- Mao Tse Tung, 1958
number_six
> Yes have to give credit to Lendl for bring the AO back to full-
> prestige status.
Much credit to Lendl, I agree, but also to Wilander for high-profile
AO wins against McEnroe, Lendl, Cash.
Lendl, Wilander, and Edberg all contributed to upgrading the AO's
status.
Raja, The Great
Not really, AO gained importance in 1988.
Quincy
> Raja, The Great wrote:
> > On Feb 25, 11:44 am, stephenJ <sjar...@pop.com> wrote:
> >> Raja, The Great wrote:
> >>> In 1985 AO he was the current Wimbledon Champion (AO was held in Dec
> >>> 1985). But he loses in the second round to none other the great
> >>> Michiel Schapers (who the fuck is Schapers)
> >>>http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Sc/M/Michiel-Schapers.aspx
> >>> Michiel Shapers never won a ATP title... FUCK! How can Becker lose to
> >>> this chump?
> >>> There is no AO in 1986... a waste really.
> >> AO was far less prestigious back then and some top guys, like Becker,
> >> just didn't take it seriously.
>
> >> Lendl changed that. When the AO switched to HC he played it and promoted
> >> it, and that helped it regain full slam status.
>
> > Also Steffi Graf promoted it a lot.
>
> Honestly, no one cared about graf. men's tennis is what matters most,
> and lendl set the example that got the top guys motivated to play their
> best at the AO.
Good point, but Lendl was Becker's bitch, especially at slams.
He used to bent over any say to Becker: Please fuck me hard, and don't
use a condom.
Iceberg
news:ea2b4afe-5f10-4690...@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
this is very interesting, is sounds like people think Becker could have won
Wimbledon 1984? was that the case back then? at 16 that would be amazing.
Iceberg
news:IdAhn.27843$OJ6....@newsfe22.iad...
> Raja, The Great wrote:
>> On Feb 25, 12:58 pm, stephenJ <sjar...@pop.com> wrote:
>>> Raja, The Great wrote:
>>>> On Feb 25, 11:44 am, stephenJ <sjar...@pop.com> wrote:
>>>>> Raja, The Great wrote:
>>>>>> In 1985 AO he was the current Wimbledon Champion (AO was held in Dec
>>>>>> 1985). But he loses in the second round to none other the great
>>>>>> Michiel Schapers (who the fuck is Schapers)
>>>>>> http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Sc/M/Michiel-Schapers.aspx
>>>>>> Michiel Shapers never won a ATP title... FUCK! How can Becker lose to
>>>>>> this chump?
>>>>>> There is no AO in 1986... a waste really.
>>>>> AO was far less prestigious back then and some top guys, like Becker,
>>>>> just didn't take it seriously.
>>>>> Lendl changed that. When the AO switched to HC he played it and
>>>>> promoted
>>>>> it, and that helped it regain full slam status.
>>>> Also Steffi Graf promoted it a lot.
>
>>> Honestly, no one cared about graf. men's tennis is what matters most,
>> Thats very sexist.
>
> not really. we all know that the very best women's players would get
> crushed by even the #1000 male player, so women's tennis is far inferior
> in overall quality, and therefore is of less intrinsic interest.
with the current clown era, that's debatable. Steffi would prob prevail vs
half of the top 100 men these days, they'd just crack under the pressure.
Raja, The Great
A past it crippled Lendl manhandled Becker in 1992 USO. LOL. Becker
got lucky he was never good enough to meet Lendl in FO or USO between
1985 and 1987 when Lendl was playing peak.
Iceberg
news:ff7ce473-17c9-4498...@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Henin vs Serena Wimbledon 2008 was a great match too.
Quincy
Ahem.. He wasn't far from being beaten at Wimby 1984, bagelled some
guys in the first rounds and mainly owned peaking, grass court
specialist Scanlon. He did win Wimbledon being 17, so with 16 it would
be possible, too.
Quincy
We all know that Becker was fat and not interested in Tennis at the
beginning of the 90ies. His own fault, but there are no arguments for
any losses he had between 91 and 94, where he was only interested in
fecundating whatever sluts in whatever places.
Manco
Melbourne Park and giving a first-class stadium Rod Laver Arena and
upping the prize money. If they didn't step up, we wouldn't have an
Australian Open today. Also the Aussie fans stepped up by showing up
and buying tickets.
number_six
1988 was the year Wilander beat Cash 8-6 in the fifth. I see it as a
process -- not a one-year epiphany -- and getting the new tennis
center was a big part of it, but the field began to strengthen in
1983, and those stronger fields were building more prestige in the
final years of Kooyong.
Tanking a set
Too slow?
Manco
semis in a row, 18/19 finals.
Tanking a set
Raja, The Great
lame excuse. After losing to Lendl in 1992 USO fourth round, within
three months he convincingly won YEC. He also beat Stefan Edberg (in
the YEC) the same guy who won USO 1992.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_ATP_Tour_World_Championships_%E2%80%93_Singles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_ATP_Tour_World_Championships_%E2%80%93_Singles
Raja, The Great
then why was Edberg winning it?
Quincy
Exactly this shows Becker's incredible talent.
He was fat, washed-up and completely out of form.
But nontheless he was able to win YEC and any other tournament, just
for raw talent.
Quincy
Edberg is another incredibly talented guy. People just don't
understand what Great the Golden Era 1985 to 1991 has been.
Edberg, Becker, McEnroe, Lendl, Wilander, Stich, Cash... Those are
sound names!
No wonder, Sampras couldn't win hardly slams or even tourneys the
first years of his career!
Tanking a set
On 25 feb, 21:53, "Raja, The Great" <zepflo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> then why was Edberg winning it?
Edberg reached the final of RG..... when RG was slow, no?
stephenJ
by inference we know this isn't so: serena or venus would crush steffi,
and yet serena and venus were at one time crushed by some spastic german
(kaaarstenn braschshsh?), so we know steffi would be mulched in to the
playing surface.
--
I wanted to see the powerful, mystical Elvis
that had crash-landed from a burning star onto
American soil .. that's the Elvis that inspired us
to all the possibilities of life. But that Elvis
had left the building.
- Bob Dylan
Quincy
> Iceberg wrote:
> > "stephenJ" <sjar...@pop.com> wrote in message
Ahem... This is fact for you? That any of the Williams would crush
steffi?!
> and yet serena and venus were at one time crushed by some spastic german
> (kaaarstenn braschshsh?), so we know steffi would be mulched in to the
Karsten Braasch.
Raja, The Great
Steffi was beating reigning USO (Serena) champion and USO finalist
(Venus) as late as 1999 in her career. And she was making a comeback
after 1.5 years of injury. My inference is peak Steffi of 1988, 1989,
1995, 1996 would crush both Serena and Venus on all surfaces.
Also I watched the mixed masters where she competed with Lendl against
McEnroe and Zina Garrison. She was outhitting McEnroe.
stephenJ
steffi never beat serena after serena won the USO. when steffi beat
serena one time, 7-5 in the 3rd set, serena had barely been playing on
the regular tour for a year.
steffi was far closer to her peak than either sista was to hers when
they played, and steffi barely won 4 matches to 3 combined.
02 venus or serena would have beat 88-89 graf like a drum on any surface.
--
Duty largely consists of pretending that the trivial is critical.
- J. Fowles
Whisper
>>>>> Thats very sexist.
>>>> not really. we all know that the very best women's players would get
>>>> crushed by even the #1000 male player, so women's tennis is far
>>>> inferior in overall quality, and therefore is of less intrinsic interest.
>>> with the current clown era, that's debatable. Steffi would prob prevail
>>> vs half of the top 100 men these days, they'd just crack under the
>>> pressure.
>> by inference we know this isn't so: serena or venus would crush steffi
>
> Steffi was beating reigning USO (Serena) champion and USO finalist
> (Venus) as late as 1999 in her career. And she was making a comeback
> after 1.5 years of injury. My inference is peak Steffi of 1988, 1989,
> 1995, 1996 would crush both Serena and Venus on all surfaces.
>
> Also I watched the mixed masters where she competed with Lendl against
> McEnroe and Zina Garrison. She was outhitting McEnroe.
There's little doubt Graf would beat sistas pretty handily most of the
time. Jaros is more a USA fucker than objective tennis fan, so best to
ignore his posts most of the time.