How do U defeat Liu Guoliang?
Charles LonerSam
Hi,
Liu might be just a good example, but see, how would U guys approach
these type of crazily close to table attacker -- not to mention using
short pips instead of normal inverted ...... He is atheletic, he is
accurate, he got tricky spins, he ... x(
Ah, also particularly for a penholder vs this kinda player -- how can U
generate the offense? I doubt even Kim Taek Soo beat Rossi that he would
be able to beat Liu.
Any ideas guys? :)
LSam
--
********************************************************
"It is not me who admits defeat, it is just God's will."
lone...@ix.netcom.com
lone...@aol.com
********************************************************
David J. Marcus
> I doubt even Kim Taek Soo beat Rossi that he would
> be able to beat Liu.
The Koreans (Yoo and Kim) have generally done better against the
Chinese (especially penholders) than against the Europeans.
--
David
Larry Hodges
How do you U defeat Liu Guoliang? You read his serve well, and are
quick enough to loop the fast deep serves. Against the short serves,
you either 1. quick push deep, and attack his (usually) pips-out loop
hard; 2. push short, and attack his return (with a loop or flip)--if he
attacks you will only have a split second to move into position to
counterattack; 3. flip to a wide angle.
You serve mostly deep. He will attack the serve; you counterattack. If
you serve short, he will either flip hard to the corner, or drop the
ball short, and attack the next ball when you are too close to the
table.
You mostly attack first to his wide forehand. He will counterattack
hard, often by smashing. You counterattack back to his backhand. By
going to his forehand first, you should be able to get at his "weaker"
backhand. If you can't handle his smash, you shouldn't be on the table
against him.
When you do get at his backhand, you play at a pace that only a few
people on the planet can rally at, and outrally him, or overpower him.
You attack hard at his middle as well, to take away some of his angle
shots and force him to decide between forehand or backhand (which he
will do even more effectively against you, if you are a shakehander,
since he uses the same side of the blade, as a penholder).
If you can rally incredibly fast, have incredible forehand and backhand
shots, have incredible footwork, have incredible serve & serve return,
are an incredible tactician... well, you have a chance.
-Larry Hodges
USATT Certified National Coach
Zaakiy Siddiqui
Charles LonerSam wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Liu might be just a good example, but see, how would U guys approach
> these type of crazily close to table attacker -- not to mention using
> short pips instead of normal inverted ...... He is atheletic, he is
> accurate, he got tricky spins, he ... x(
>
> Ah, also particularly for a penholder vs this kinda player -- how can U
> be able to beat Liu.
>
>
> LSam
> --
> ********************************************************
> "It is not me who admits defeat, it is just God's will."
> lone...@ix.netcom.com
> lone...@aol.com
> ********************************************************
Umayr (11 yrs) responds:
just keep on practicing!!
Wen Niu
mar...@rachel.read.tasc.com (David J. Marcus) wrote:
>
>
> The Koreans (Yoo and Kim) have generally done better against the
> Chinese (especially penholders) than against the Europeans.
Is it just your wishful opinion or you have the records comparing,
say, the match results between three best Koreans, Yoo Nam Kyu, Kim
Taek Soo, and kim Wan vs the three best Chinese penholders, Jiang
Jialiang, Chen Longcan, and Liu Guoliang, with those between the
Koreans and the Europeans?
Wen
Tak Y Wong
In article <1996Oct2.223204.9367@ucbeh>,
Yoo Nam Kyoo and Jiang Jia-Liang played in the 1986
Asian games. It was the first time Yoo played in a
major tournament. Jiang beat Yoo in the teams but
lost to Yoo in the quarterfinals of the singles.
Yoo then went on to beat Hui Jun in straight games
in the final. I have the video tape of the
entire match. Hui Jun was a shakehand player
with pips on both sides. Incidentally, the Chinese
lost the team championship of the Asian Games to the
Koreans - it was their first loss after a long long
streak that dated back 1979.
Kim Taek Soo encountered the Chinese for the first time
when he played in a Chinese tournament in the early-1980's.
Kim defeated all the top Chinese players he met and only
lost to Chen Long-Can. Chinese team Coach Xu Xiao-Fa commented
Kim would be the player to challenge the Chinese dominance.
Tak
>
>Wen
>
Sandiway Fong
Zaakiy Siddiqui wrote:
> Charles LonerSam wrote:
> > Liu might be just a good example, but see, how would U guys
> > approach these type of crazily close to table attacker -- not
> > to mention using short pips instead of normal inverted ......
> > He is atheletic, he is accurate, he got tricky spins, he ... x(
> >
> > Ah, also particularly for a penholder vs this kinda player --
> > how can U generate the offense? I doubt even Kim Taek Soo beat
> > Rossi that he would be able to beat Liu.
> >
> > Any ideas guys? :)
> just keep on practicing!!
Obviously, you did not see the Korean Lee Chul Seung blow Liu
Guo Liang off the table in the World Team Cup in Atlanta last
year. The solution is quite simple: rip everything with the
loop kill, and don't miss. Liu became a helpless spectator
as ball after ball just whizzed past him. Liu flips, Lee
loop kills. Liu pushes, Lee loop kills. Liu spins, Lee loop
kills. You get the general idea. Liu was looking back at his
coach throughout the match.
And obviously you have not seen the tape of Kim Taek Soo in
his younger days play Chen Long Can in 1987(?) in the World
Championships. I believe Chen was #2 ranked player or something
like that in the world at that time. A 3-0 demolition job by
Kim who similarly turned Chen into a helpless spectator.
Chen just couldn't handle the power (or see the ball).
Returning to your question of how to beat Liu. Well, your best
bet is to get reincarnated and pick your parents wisely. Lots
of money, a couple of world champions, plus a good table tennis
school within walking distance wouldn't go amiss.
Sandiway
--
Dr. Sandiway Fong
NEC Research Institute Inc.
4 Independence Way
Princeton NJ 08540
http://www.neci.nj.nec.com/homepages/sandiway.html
Charles LonerSam
Hi guys,
The reason I asked this question is because I am a inverted rubber
penholder and I loops quite often. I don't have much trouble dealing
with people (whatever grip) attacking or give pressure on my backhand
provided that they are using normal inverted rubber; but here is the
dilemma -- short pips.
Since the coming ball tends to be 'dead' but fast, it is kinda diff. and
take some concentration for me to adjust whenever the opp push to my
backhand. If I push it back, it would tend to go under the net very
easily; if I use my backhand loop, it would not be strong enough and
most of the time is that the coming push balls on my backhand are short.
If I use my forehand loop, it would be very dangerous esp. when short
pips are fast and my far corner right hand side is open wide.
This is basically the dilemma I have: Don't have much offense
opportunity.
See, my best bet is to loop with heavy topspin to the opp. so that they
would slow down a little bit and I then would have a chance/time to
generate my offense, but once if the opp is a good defender vs looping
.... I would be very helpless.
Oh and yes, Sandiway, I haven't seen those older games that's why I
don't have much idea how Kim Taek Soo and other good penholder kick pip
players' butt. :o :p
So, any ideas? I mean, ... I don't have much problem with my atheticism
in running in front of the table when I vs the pips players, but just
that there is really a hard time to generate offense.
Thanks in advance!
LSam
David J. Marcus
I was in Germany to watch the 89 Worlds. Kim defeated Chen Longcan
easily three straight.
--
David
David J. Marcus
> Obviously, you did not see the Korean Lee Chul Seung blow Liu
> Guo Liang off the table in the World Team Cup in Atlanta last
> year. The solution is quite simple: rip everything with the
> loop kill, and don't miss.
Actually I think the key was Lee would attack (loop or loop-kill) Liu's
serves. He loop killed some serves that were so short it was
incredible. Lee was applying all the pressure.
> his younger days play Chen Long Can in 1987(?) in the World
I think it was 1989.
> Chen just couldn't handle the power (or see the ball).
Again I think the table game is key. Chen was reduced to serving long
to try to generate some offense on his serves.
I watched Yoo and Kim warming up at the 89 Worlds. My impression was
they were practicing tactics (flipping short serves) that are
especially effective against pips. Yoo doesn't flip well against
inverted, but he does against pips. This completely changes the table
game.
--
David
Wen Niu
Sandiway Fong <sand...@research.nj.nec.com> wrote:
>Zaakiy Siddiqui wrote:
>> Charles LonerSam wrote:
>> > Liu might be just a good example, but see, how would U guys
>> > approach these type of crazily close to table attacker -- not
>> > to mention using short pips instead of normal inverted ......
>> > He is atheletic, he is accurate, he got tricky spins, he ... x(
>> >
>> > Ah, also particularly for a penholder vs this kinda player --
>> > how can U generate the offense? I doubt even Kim Taek Soo beat
>> > Rossi that he would be able to beat Liu.
>> >
>> > Any ideas guys? :)
>> Umayr (11 yrs) responds:
>> just keep on practicing!!
>
>Guo Liang off the table in the World Team Cup in Atlanta last
>year. The solution is quite simple: rip everything with the
>as ball after ball just whizzed past him. Liu flips, Lee
>loop kills. Liu pushes, Lee loop kills. Liu spins, Lee loop
>kills. You get the general idea. Liu was looking back at his
>coach throughout the match.
True, the Chinese team didn't do well as a team in that particular World
Team Cup, not just Liu Guoliang. The tables were turning against them.
Oh, yeah. The Korean men's coach ought to come to seek advice on how to
resist the temptation of NOT selecting younger guys to defeat Chinese in
large international tournaments, such as the Olympics, 'cause when those
players get more mature, their "loop kill" skills become less effective.
So keep doing "loop kills" and keep letting Chinese winning one world
champion after another.
Nevertheless, great coaching candidate indeed.
>
>And obviously you have not seen the tape of Kim Taek Soo in
>his younger days play Chen Long Can in 1987(?) in the World
Chen Longcan is a member of the Chinese team who won the Men's Team's
title in the 87 World Championship, which means he could not be beaten
3-0 by someone in a team competition (best of 3 format, got that?).
Besides, China and Korea didn't meet in the team's event. Chen did lose
in the quarter, but to a player other than Kim Taek Soo.
Tak Y Wong
In article <78enjer...@rachel.Read.TASC.COM>,
Masuda, a Japanese college player around 2600 (in 1992 when I
met him), defeated Liu Guo-Liang in the 1993 World Championship
singles 3 straight games.
Liu also lost to Desmond Douglas in the 1995 Worlds in the team
event.
Johnny Huang has beaten Liu in the Asian circuits.
I would not equate Liu with Jiang Jia-Liang in the mid 80's
or Waldner in the early 90's, yet.
Tak
Sandiway Fong
> Wen Niu <ni...@ucbeh.san.uc.edu> writes:
> > Sandiway Fong <sand...@research.nj.nec.com> wrote:
> > And obviously you have not seen the tape of Kim Taek Soo in
> > his younger days play Chen Long Can in 1987(?) in the World
> Chen Longcan is a member of the Chinese team who won the Men's
> Team's title in the 87 World Championship, which means he could
> not be beaten 3-0 by someone in a team competition (best of 3
> format, got that?). Besides, China and Korea didn't meet in the
> team's event. Chen did lose in the quarter, but to a player other
> than Kim Taek Soo.
As David Marcus kindly pointed out, I was right to be unsure of
the year. It was 1989. It was also the individuals event.
If you want to see the "tables turned" on Kim Taek Soo, just watch
the way Grubba beat Kim 3-0 in the same worlds (unless I've gotten
my years mixed up again). Grubba made Kim look like a lower level
blocker.
Now contrast Kim's backhand then to now, e.g. Gilbert Cup
or Atlanta Olympics. What a difference.
Even though Kim has amazing footwork to step around to use that
big forehand, he obviously found it useful to develop his backhand
to a much higher level.
Tak Y Wong
In article <1996Oct4.121654.9369@ucbeh>,
Wen Niu <ni...@ucbeh.san.uc.edu> wrote:
>Sandiway Fong <sand...@research.nj.nec.com> wrote:
>
>True, the Chinese team didn't do well as a team in that particular World
>Team Cup, not just Liu Guoliang. The tables were turning against them.
>
>Oh, yeah. The Korean men's coach ought to come to seek advice on how to
>resist the temptation of NOT selecting younger guys to defeat Chinese in
>large international tournaments, such as the Olympics, 'cause when those
>players get more mature, their "loop kill" skills become less effective.
>
>
>So keep doing "loop kills" and keep letting Chinese winning one world
>champion after another.
>
have lots of problems against North and South Koreans,
more so than any European country except Sweden. The Chinese
are great players, but from being invincible. The Koreans
have had a long history of success against the Chinese,
primarily because their training goal was to beat the
Chinese. In 1983, the Koreans went 4-5 against the Chinese
team in the worlds. Jiang Jia-Liang saved the team by
winning last match. In 1986, the South Koreans beat
the Chinese in the Asian games, ending a long streak
of Chinese dominance in international team events. The
CHinese had Jiang Jia-Liang, Chen Long-Can, Cehn Xin-Hua,
and Hui Jun, who was the Chinese national champion at the
time. The Chinese team lost 4-5 after a hard-fought battle.
In 1990, the Chinese played the North Koreans in the
Asian Games and lost again. This time it was Ma Wenge,
Chen Zi-Bin, and Chen Long-Can vs Lee Gsng San, Kim Song Hui,
and some young guy named Choi. I saw the video of the match
and my opinion is the Koreans had a stronger team.
Then, most recently, the Koreans beat the Chinese in
World Cup Teams competition.
These, I believe, are not accidental.
>
>Nevertheless, great coaching candidate indeed.
>
>
Koreans and Japanese have very good coaches, some even
surpass the Chinese. One of my coaches, Zhuang ZeDong,
a 3-time world champion himself, actually has very
few good words about most Chinese coaches. It might
be mostly his personal opinion, but it is an indication
that Chinese coaches are not absolutely flawless. I have
personally interacted with a couple of Japanes coaches -
all former Japnese national champions - and I was very
impressed by them.
>
>>
>>And obviously you have not seen the tape of Kim Taek Soo in
>>his younger days play Chen Long Can in 1987(?) in the World
>
David Marcus is getting old and forgetful, beside having
reduced his loop to an arm-centric swing. Chen Long Can
get clobbered by Kim Taek Soo in 1989; the match was
featured in one of the Reflex Sports tapes. Chen did not
play badly at all; Kim was just unstoppable.
Chen lost to Waldner in the semi's in 1987.
Tak
Chung Lau
Sandiway Fong wrote:
>
>
> Obviously, you did not see the Korean Lee Chul Seung blow Liu
> Guo Liang off the table in the World Team Cup in Atlanta last
> year. The solution is quite simple: rip everything with the
> loop kill, and don't miss. Liu became a helpless spectator
> as ball after ball just whizzed past him. Liu flips, Lee
> loop kills. Liu pushes, Lee loop kills. Liu spins, Lee loop
> kills. You get the general idea. Liu was looking back at his
> coach throughout the match.
>
>
I'm not convinced that the Korean forehand-looping style is always
successful against Liu. Liu's coming-out party was the 1992 China Open
in Chengdu, where he, barely 16 years old, beat Lindh, Waldner, Kim and
Lee Gun-Sang, all in 2 days. Kim and Waldner were excellent loopers. Liu
became an overnight sensation in China. The 1995 World Cup match he
played against Lee Chul Seung was a huge mental lapse, in my opinion. He
has beaten Kim several times recently in Asian/Chinese tournaments, if I
remember correctly, and Kim is a much stronger player than Lee. By the
way, when Liu was only 13 years old in 1989, he was already 5th in the
Chinese Nationals. You do not get to be that good with an obvious
weakness against strong loopers.
Liu's style is a high risk style. He hits the ball early, flat-kills
frequently, stays close to the table, and basically depends on his very
quick reflexes against loops (he seldom counter loops, but quick
counters with forehand). When he is on, he can appear to be lightning
fast, and with his very tricky serves, he is very dominant with his
accurate 3rd ball play. However, if his timing is only slightly off, he
can be missing a lot of balls, like he did against Lee in 1995. And I
think he committed the cardinal sin of under-estimating his opponent,
Lee, in that match. I have watched the 96 Olympics tapes, and I noticed
that he has improved a lot. He now loops more frequently (with either
pips-out or inverted side on forehand), his backhand loops are more
consistent, and his serve placements are even better than before. He has
become a much more stable, consistent player. He has a lot more finesse
now, and does not depend on his raw speed as much. He can even counter
loop with his inverted rubber away from the table, if he needs to, to
stay in the rally. He has also become a very good doubles player.
Witness the winning point against Liu-Lee in the Olympic semi-finals;
that was the best doubles-point I have seen. It was no fluke, or gift,
that Liu/Kong beat the ex-champions Wang/Lu.
The player who consistently beats Liu is his doubles teammate, Kong
Linghui. Kong owns Liu. In fact, I don't think Kong has lost to Liu in
the last 3 years in any major tournament. Kong's strategy is simple:
very consistent forehand and backhand loops and blocks, very good read
on Liu's serves, and spread the ball so that Liu has to watch out for
the deep forehand quick-returns. And, by the way, very good read on
pips-out spin. The last point is important because most European players
cannot judge the spin and the trajectory of pips-out shots well, because
the ball carries less top-spin. It was also surprising that Liu beat
Wang Tao in the Olympics, since Wang also has won most of his matches
against Liu in the past. But Wang looked tired in that final.
Someone mentioned the Koreans have done well against China, but ever
since Wang Tao started playing for the Chinese men's team, the 1995
World Cup was the only time China lost to Korea in a team event. Korea
always plays well against China in teams, but China always comes out on
top because of that 3rd team player (in the 95 Worlds, it was Kong).
Wang Tao beats Yoo consistently, and most of the time beats Kim, too.
That's 2 sets and you only need 3 to win the match.
Chung.
mn...@waikato.ac.nz
achievement that he won the Olympics, but he is hardly unbeatable, remeber, he
is not the current No. one in the world or in China, KongLingHui is, and I
believe Kong is a better all around player than Liu. Liu is very inconsistent,
on his day, he is a world beater, but he can also be very ordinary at times.
there will be young chinese players emerging in china already who will
overshadow both Kong and Liu.
Cheers
mn...@waikato.ac.nz
>
> The player who consistently beats Liu is his doubles teammate, Kong
> Linghui. Kong owns Liu. In fact, I don't think Kong has lost to Liu in
> the last 3 years in any major tournament. Kong's strategy is simple:
> very consistent forehand and backhand loops and blocks, very good read
> on Liu's serves, and spread the ball so that Liu has to watch out for
> the deep forehand quick-returns. And, by the way, very good read on
> pips-out spin. The last point is important because most European players
> cannot judge the spin and the trajectory of pips-out shots well, because
> the ball carries less top-spin. It was also surprising that Liu beat
> Wang Tao in the Olympics, since Wang also has won most of his matches
> against Liu in the past. But Wang looked tired in that final.
another reason Kong beat Liu so frequently is because that he can read Liu's
play very well, since those two often play and practice togather during
training and tournaments. That is another reason why a player as dominant as
DengYaPing having a lot of trouble beating players like Chen Jing and He Zhi
Li, much of it is due to the familarity with each other's play during their
times in chinese national team, when they often practice with each other. it
also explains why players like Deng, Kong, and Liu are less dominant in chinese
domestic competitions than they are interantionally, in fact, world No.2
QiaoHun hardly features in a lot of chinese domestic competitions, often being
knocked out in the earlier round by other chinese players.
In fact, i think the statement that to win China Cup is probably harder than
winning World Championchips would not be a false one.
Wen Niu
I agree your conclusion although I doubt that Deng Yaping and He Zhili
(Chire Koyoma) really praticed a lot together, 'cause He is Deng's
senior by some half generation.
It's never too big a deal, in the minds of Chinese coaches, for a
player to win Chinese nationals. Only major internationals, such as
World Championships and Olympics, are what the coaches really aiming
at when they cultivate their pupils. A good example is the success of
Ding Song. The biggest blackhorse he was in the '95 WTTC as he knocked
out several top European players, Ding Song was hardly a prominent
player on the Chinese national team, partly because of his playing
style, partly because of his introversive nature (a result of his
mother's remarriage after the loss of his father in his early age).
Thanks to the wisdoms of the coaches, there is nobody among Chinese tt
fan who doesn't respect him and no foreign players who doesn't wish to
avoid to play him in any competition.
Wen
David J. Marcus
> If you want to see the "tables turned" on Kim Taek Soo, just watch
> the way Grubba beat Kim 3-0 in the same worlds (unless I've gotten
> my years mixed up again). Grubba made Kim look like a lower level
> blocker.
Different table game. The Koreans are very adept at attacking pips
serves. Against inverted they don't attack as well and Grubba can open
using his double winged attack. I remember watching Primorac play Yoo
at a US Open many years ago. Primorac won just with his backhand flip
of short balls. Yoo couldn't get into the points.
--
David
David J. Marcus
> David Marcus is getting old and forgetful, beside having
> reduced his loop to an arm-centric swing. Chen Long Can
> get clobbered by Kim Taek Soo in 1989; the match was
> featured in one of the Reflex Sports tapes. Chen did not
> play badly at all; Kim was just unstoppable.
Thank you Tak for your coaching advice, but it wasn't me who said
1987. I was in Germany in 1989 and I had an excellent seat to see Kim
defeat Chen. I thought Chen looked the most solid of the Chinese that
year, but Kim didn't give him a chance to play. Watching the Chinese
it was quite clear how important it was to be able to handle their
table game. The Swedes were playing completely different table game
tactics from earlier years and so could now play with the Chinese.
The Swedes, Koreans, and a few isolated players such as Dimitri
Mazunov could play the Chinese. Everyone else couldn't even get into
the points.
--
David
David J. Marcus
> Someone mentioned the Koreans have done well against China, but ever
> since Wang Tao started playing for the Chinese men's team, the 1995
> World Cup was the only time China lost to Korea in a team event.
Wang Tao has a different style table game compared to the pips style
of Liu, Chen, and Jiang. Wang plays an inverted style table game
despite his backhand pips. The Koreans do well against pips. It just
happens that most top pips players are from China (or if you prefer,
the Chinese have had many top pips players, so the Koreans have
emphasized beating that style).
--
David
Tak Y Wong
In article <MARCUS.96...@obiwan.read.tasc.com>,
That wasn't entirely true, if you were referring to the
1991 US Open at Midland. In the Mens Single final, Yoo
was dominating Primorac and was leading 2-1 in games
and 20-18 in the 4th. Primorac got lucky and went to
deuce with an edge ball. He then won the 4th and the
5th game.
Tak
>
>--
>David
LCHUI
mn...@waikato.ac.nz wrote:
>
> In article <Dyrn...@world.std.com>, info...@world.std.com (Tak Y Wong) writes:
> >>easily three straight.
> >>--
> >>David
> >
> > Masuda, a Japanese college player around 2600 (in 1992 when I
> > met him), defeated Liu Guo-Liang in the 1993 World Championship
> > singles 3 straight games.
> >
> > Liu also lost to Desmond Douglas in the 1995 Worlds in the team
> > event.
> >
> > Johnny Huang has beaten Liu in the Asian circuits.
> >
> > I would not equate Liu with Jiang Jia-Liang in the mid 80's
> > or Waldner in the early 90's, yet.
> >
> > Tak
> >
> >
> It is interesting to see so much interest in Liu Guo Liang, it is a great
> achievement that he won the Olympics, but he is hardly unbeatable, remeber, he
> is not the current No. one in the world or in China, KongLingHui is, and I
> believe Kong is a better all around player than Liu. Liu is very inconsistent,
> on his day, he is a world beater, but he can also be very ordinary at times.
> there will be young chinese players emerging in china already who will
> overshadow both Kong and Liu.
>
> Cheers
I would not use adjectives like, "very ordinary",
"inconsistant".. to describe a great player like Liu, who just past 20
years old, he may become the greatest champion yet.
Pips-out rubber's surface area is about 1/3 of that of inverted.
Following the laws of physics, a pips out player will always be less
consistant than a equivalent inverted player... however the pips creates
a "slightly warbed" trajectory (as compare to a more "well behaved" one
that is usaually generated by inverted surfaces).
Lim
David J. Marcus
> That wasn't entirely true, if you were referring to the
> 1991 US Open at Midland.
Actually I was referring to one of the Miami Opens. Must have been 88
or 89. I didn't go to any of the Midland Opens.
--
David
Tak Y Wong
In article <MARCUS.96O...@obiwan.read.tasc.com>,
I believe in that US Open in Miami, Yoo Nam Kyoo lost
to Erik Linh in the finals, 3-1. Where did he get beat
by Primorac, in the teams?
Tak
>--
>David
David J. Marcus
> Pips-out rubber's surface area is about 1/3 of that of inverted.
> Following the laws of physics, a pips out player will always be less
> consistant than a equivalent inverted player
Hmm, I must have missed that law when I took physics.
--
David
Sandiway Fong
Tak Y Wong wrote:
> Liu also lost to Desmond Douglas in the 1995 Worlds
> in the team event.
Ha! I forgot about this one. Who has videotape?
How can the Liu worshippers explain this one away?
Let's see.
(1) Liu was having a bad tournament like in the world team cup.
No, that can't be right. He made finals and China did win teams.
(2) Douglas was faster than Liu.
No, that can't be right either. Look at the difference
in age and fitness (and Desmond was retired).
(3) ...
Hmm, not easy. Or could it be that Liu's lightning kills,
penhold backhand loop, and excellent serves were completely
neutralized by Desmond blocking him down? Would be interesting
to see the video. Perhaps LonerSam, this is the answer you've
been searching for. Don't try to outgun Liu Guo-Liang, play like
Desmond Douglas instead...
Tak Y Wong
In article <325ECCFE...@research.nj.nec.com>,
Sandiway Fong <sand...@research.nj.nec.com> wrote:
>Tak Y Wong wrote:
>> Liu also lost to Desmond Douglas in the 1995 Worlds
>> in the team event.
>
>Ha! I forgot about this one. Who has videotape?
>How can the Liu worshippers explain this one away?
>
>Let's see.
>
>(1) Liu was having a bad tournament like in the world team cup.
> No, that can't be right. He made finals and China did win teams.
>
>(2) Douglas was faster than Liu.
> No, that can't be right either. Look at the difference
> in age and fitness (and Desmond was retired).
Desomnd Douglas was a great player at his prime, and is
still in excellent form, retired or not. However, it is
rather unconcerting that Liu should lose to him in a
world championship, especially in China.
Liu had his best day when he beat Waldner, Perrsen, and
Li GangShang in the same tournament in China when he was
only 16. However, I don't think we can use this to predict
how great a player Liu would be. All top players have their
great moments. Perssen won all his team matches in the
1989 worlds and defeated 5 Chinese players to reach the
final, only losing 1 match to Waldner. Waldner won the
1992 Olympics without losing 1 single game. I think these
are even more impressive than Liu's wins. Incidentally,
Perssen had a miserable time in the 1993 worlds, when he
lost in the first round of the singles to an unknown
player when he was the defending champion; one of the
games he lost was 21-1.
It is not very accurate to make a judgement based on just
a handful of wins or losses.
Tak
Peter Ho
info...@world.std.com (Tak Y Wong) wrote:
> Liu had his best day when he beat Waldner, Perrsen, and
> Li GangShang in the same tournament in China when he was
> only 16. However, I don't think we can use this to predict
> how great a player Liu would be. All top players have their
> great moments. Perssen won all his team matches in the
> 1989 worlds and defeated 5 Chinese players to reach the
> final, only losing 1 match to Waldner. Waldner won the
> 1992 Olympics without losing 1 single game. ....
Waldner did lose one game in the '92 Olympics before winning the title. The
only game that he lost was to Jörg Rosskopf before beating Rosskopf 3-1. That
game was very close with Rosskopf taking the game with his classic backhand
loop kill.
Pete