Long Pimpled Rubber Reviews
Dean Stretton
manufacturers' descriptions are seldom detailed enough to give you
much of an idea what you're purchasing -- I thought it might be useful
(to somebody, somewhere) to have a page with more detailed
descriptions. So, I've written a few reviews of long pimpled rubbers
I have used:
http://www.tip.net.au/~dean/lp-rubbers.html
This is very much in the spirit of Boris's "Tactical Table Tennis"
site:
http://www.terra.es/personal5/borissm/ttt/articles.htm
I'd be interested to hear whether people think this sort of thing is
interesting, useful, and/or accurate. I'm hoping that, as a result of
such reviews, people might waste less money on buying long pimples
that ultimately turn out not to suit their game. More reviews will be
added in due course (time and finances permitting!). (Can anyone
perhaps help by writing reviews of long pimples that I haven't yet
reviewed?)
Best,
Dean Stretton.
PérRµ§h
de...@tip.net.au (Dean Stretton) verruimde onze geest met:
>
>I'd be interested to hear whether people think this sort of thing is
>interesting, useful, and/or accurate. I'm hoping that, as a result of
>such reviews, people might waste less money on buying long pimples
>that ultimately turn out not to suit their game. More reviews will be
>added in due course (time and finances permitting!). (Can anyone
>perhaps help by writing reviews of long pimples that I haven't yet
>reviewed?)
>
I have thought about such thing for over a year now, never found the
time. Work is in progress now :-)
ps : you've got mail
PérRµ§h
--
Software is developed for profit, but it is cracked out of passion. In my
book passion is a better motivator than profit.
Arno Stienen
Nice work! Keep this comming.
Arno.
"Dean Stretton" <de...@tip.net.au> wrote in message
news:541221ea.0302...@posting.google.com...
Dave Williams
Arno Stienen wrote:
> Dean,
>
> Nice work! Keep this comming.
>
> Arno.
>
Ditto. Bravo. Excellent analysis that's very consistent with the thinking
I am beginning to process from speaking with long pipsters. On the
Continent, Uncle 'Erbert seems to have a very sophisticated theory for at
the table play with long pips.
Dr. Tom, our own world traveling mole, speaks about how, with a completely
stationary blade, a long pips practitioner can "creep" the landing spot of
successive at-the-table blocks to force mistakes at the cross-over elbow
point. Dr. Neubuer's best sheet at the table is vexing to the opponent but
quite predictable to its owner.
Lefty who still can't resist an occasional ill-fated attempt to reloop :)
Dick Schneiders
Thanks for a great review of these long-pips rubbers. I have come back to the
game about 3 months ago after 20 years of not touching a bat. I started my
come back by playing with my old stand-by anti-spin rubber, Sriver-Killer, on
the backhand but since it is no longer manufactured, needed to find something
else. After trying several of the modern anti-spin rubbers, and not liking any
of them, I have recently gone to long-pips.
Unfortunately, the only long-pips that I have tried is one that you didn't
review - Friendship 755 with 1.0 sponge. Is that one on your future list? I
have been hitting with it for a few weeks now, both on my robot and in our
twice weekly club play, and really like how it plays. I have used it in two
sanctioned tournaments the past two weekends, in Lincoln Nebraska and
Hutchinson Kansas. I did rather poorly in the first tournament, but improved
considerably for the second one.
The 755 seems to have many of the positive qualities that you mention in some
of your reviews. However, since it is the only long-pips that I have ever
played with, I have nothing to compare it to. It seems to be very good in the
basic spin reversal that long-pips are known for. Simple pushes of backspin
shots result in considerable topspin for the opponent. I, just last week, have
learned how to consistently hit out against long pushes or chops by lifting the
ball with an open blade (scooping it, as you say). This seems very easy and
consistent and I am getting almost as much speed on the ball as I do with my
forehand fast loops and kills. Close to the table blocks and chop blocks are
also very effective, but I have not yet achieved consistency with my placement
on these shots. Simply by putting the blade into the way of the oncoming
topspin shots seems to be an excellent reply that results in very short and
controlled backspin returns. This rubber also seems to create considerable
knuckling effect on the ball when I block hard topspin shots or put some side
spin on my returns. I also like to hit full fledged chops while back away from
the table several feet. This 755 rubber, while different than using anti or
inverted, does seem to chop well. I still am a ways from being able to control
the distance on these longer shots, as I often float the ball to far, but they
are effective.
I like this rubber!! I probably should get some of the Dr. Neubauer Super
Special and compare them, but I am really happy with where I am going with this
Friendship 755.
I did run into one player last Saturday who knew how to take advantage of my
long-pips. He would hit fairly high, no-spin balls into my backhand side and I
had not yet learned how to deal with this tactic. I was unable, during the
match, to learn how to hit out on these shots with the long-pips. After losing
the first two games easily, I started to move way over and hit as many of these
shots as I could with my inverted forehand. However, that opened me up to
other wide replies that I had difficulty in covering. I then started to
flip/twiddle my combo racquet when he used this tactic. I had never done that
in any match before, even a practice one, but it did seem to confuse my
opponent some. I ended up losing the match in 6 games (best of 7), but felt as
if I would have won it if I knew how to hit those shots with the long-pips. I
suspect that I should have used some open blade shots with strong side spin
motion to return these shots, but that didn't occur to me in the heat of the
match. Any thoughts on this?
Thanks again for the review and I am looking foreward to seeing some more as
you are able to audition the rubbers.
Dick Schneiders
Scott L. Burson
>
> [Lots of stuff about 755]
I'm not a long-pips expert -- I usually play with inverted -- and I
haven't tried lots of kinds of long pips, but I have tried 755. I agree
with you that it is good for spin reversal, though it's not the best in
that category. But I found it hard to control.
What I use now, when I use long pips at all, is Andro Clou. It's easier
to control than the 755, particularly when hitting against backspin. It
may not have quite as much spin reversal but it's pretty close. I would
encourage you to give it a try. You can get it from California Table
Tennis (www.catabletennisco.com).
-- Scott
Kagin
I haven't used long pips in perhaps six years, and i was never
very good at using them, but i'm considering using them again.
I like boris' reviews in that he provides a sort of measure of
a variety of different physical characteristics. It doesn't need
to be numerical, but i'd be interested in seeing comparisons or
rankings of rubber sheets based on individual characteristics.
Amount of spin reversal/spin absorption, spin immunity (how much
you need to adjust angle/stroke to incoming spin), and some sort
of measure of low-impact touch (speed, softness, whatever) would
all be very helpful. Also nice would be information about speed
absorption/rebound speed (when blocking or chopping) and spin
generation (when serving and when attacking).
Your reviews are still very helpful. Reviews are of course
dependent on the reader's understanding of the reviewer, and
hough we can't watch you play, after reading all of your reviews
and comparing with our own experiences we can get a feel for how
the equipment we haven't used will behave. It's certainly no
more innacurate than reading music or movie reviews, and i read
those too.
MFBaltaxe
>Continent, Uncle 'Erbert seems to have a very sophisticated theory for at
>the table play with long pips.
>
>Dr. Tom, our own world traveling mole, speaks about how, with a completely
>stationary blade, a long pips practitioner can "creep" the landing spot of
>successive at-the-table blocks to force mistakes at the cross-over elbow
>point. Dr. Neubuer's best sheet at the table is vexing to the opponent but
>quite predictable to its owner.
>
>Lefty who still can't resist an occasional ill-fated attempt to reloop :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
LONG PIPS !.I FIND IT TEDIOUS (:
Prean_Disciple
I've noticed that Chinese pimple design, in general, the pips are
much closer together on the topsheet, more pimples bendingon
conatactwiththe ball. While Japanese long pips seem to be more widely
spaced on the top sheet, giving them more leeway to bend. I have
found that Chinese long pips in general have more disturbing effects,
whether it be spin reversal or a wobbling effect. I play with Stiga
Destroyer 1.5 sponge its great for blocking and hitting. I have
played with RITC 755, my main complaint on those pips is, over time, 2
to 3 months the pips start to break off. In 6 months playing with the
Destroyer not yet have I lost a pip (These pips are long and thick,
kinda like Curl P-2. but longer) however the pip topsheet did start
peeling off the sponge. I took it as a bonus, I wanted to try
Destroyer OX anyway.
de...@tip.net.au (Dean Stretton) wrote in message news:<541221ea.0302...@posting.google.com>...
sgordon
: WELL WHAT DO YOU HARD RUBBER PLAYERS THINK OF THIS ? TECHNICAL DISCUSSIONS
: OF LONG PIPS !.I FIND IT TEDIOUS (:
I find technical discussions of any table tennis equipment tedious.
Long pips are kinda squishy too :P But not as squishy as inverted :)
And definitely not as squishy as what's her name... but I digress...
Scott
PérRµ§h
<ka...@accessus.net> verruimde onze geest met:
>I like boris' reviews in that he provides a sort of measure of
>a variety of different physical characteristics. It doesn't need
>to be numerical, but i'd be interested in seeing comparisons or
>rankings of rubber sheets based on individual characteristics.
>Amount of spin reversal/spin absorption, spin immunity (how much
>you need to adjust angle/stroke to incoming spin), and some sort
>of measure of low-impact touch (speed, softness, whatever) would
>all be very helpful. Also nice would be information about speed
>absorption/rebound speed (when blocking or chopping) and spin
>generation (when serving and when attacking).
>
reviews of players are always very subjective. Some players plays
good with that sheet, another with another sheet, it much depends on
their style and level.
Although I see merit in individual players reviews, I see more meaning
in comparing the sheets technically. And by this I mean :
* length of pips
* width of pips
-> aspect ratio
* diameter of pips
* density of the pips
* stifness of pips
* thickness of rubber base
* hardness of sponge
* ...
Then you should know how these properties influence the rubber when
it's played. When you already played one rubber ond know what you
like, you can look up the properties of that rubber and see what must
be changed -> then look for another rubber which has the desired
properties.
This would be much better then just players review.
Dean Stretton
[...]
> I like boris' reviews in that he provides a sort of measure of
> a variety of different physical characteristics. It doesn't need
> to be numerical, but i'd be interested in seeing comparisons or
> rankings of rubber sheets based on individual characteristics.
> Amount of spin reversal/spin absorption, spin immunity (how much
> you need to adjust angle/stroke to incoming spin), and some sort
> of measure of low-impact touch (speed, softness, whatever) would
> all be very helpful. Also nice would be information about speed
> absorption/rebound speed (when blocking or chopping) and spin
> generation (when serving and when attacking). [...]
Good point! The reviews I wrote are based on what particularly struck
me about the rubbers in question, but it would certainly be useful (as
you say) to give ratings on a defined set of characteristics. Reverse
rubbers generally have ratings for speed, spin and control. Perhaps
long pimples should have three ratings for spin, one for speed and one
for control (all of which could be further subdivided if, in relation
to a particular category, a rubber plays differently for different
shots):
* spin reversal
* spin immunity
* spin generation
* speed
* control
Question: are many long pips players worried much by the "spin
generation" rating? One would have thought that (virtually) all long
pips generate either no spin of their own, or at best very weak spin,
so that the "spin generation" category would not be of much
consequence? Although, if one likes to do short, low serves with the
pips, I guess even a small amount of backspin would assist in
preventing the ball from sitting up too high...
Best,
Dean.
PérRµ§h
de...@tip.net.au (Dean Stretton) verruimde onze geest met:
>Question: are many long pips players worried much by the "spin
>generation" rating? One would have thought that (virtually) all long
>pips generate either no spin of their own, or at best very weak spin,
>so that the "spin generation" category would not be of much
>consequence? Although, if one likes to do short, low serves with the
>pips, I guess even a small amount of backspin would assist in
>preventing the ball from sitting up too high...
spin generation and spin reversal are clossely related as a slick
sheet would reverse much spin but also couldn't generate much spin.
A more roughly surfaced sheet will slowdown the rotation of the ball
and therefore kill more spin (less spin return) but will be capable of
at least generate some own spin.
If you don't attack yourself and play close to the table, spin -
gerenation isn't really needed. For attacking players it's almost a
must.
As for me I like the above in combination with the stifness of the
pips. So when the pips don't bend, I need a slick surface. The more
the pips bend the more grip I want. In that way it's possible for me
to generate a weak top spin ball when I hit it really hard but in the
same time I'm playing with an anti-like sheet when i struck the ball
softly.
So I like that the spin (and spin return) is subject to the force I
play with.
The only rubber I found with which this is possible is the TSP Bamboo
0.5 mm red, and this only for about 15 to 30 sessions, than he becomes
to rough and pips are not stiff enough anymore. The 1.0 mm is to
slick. The ox can't stand the hitting -> pips break out very rapidly.
Perrush
Alexander J. Chien
To this equipment junkie, it's all kind of fun. Over the course of a
month last year, one combo player in my area must have put together
20+something various combinations trying to get feedback from me as to
which rubber was "most difficult" to handle. Short pips, medium pips,
long pips, sponge, no sponge, soft blade, hard blade, whew! He settled
on a medium-slow Palio blade, one side inverted, and the other side
Winning NP-2. A long pips spin "continuation" sheet that actually has
short-pips-like flat hitting/drive characteristics.
sgordon <sgo...@sonic.net> wrote:
--
Alexander J. Chien
ajc...@umich.edu