New Don Iguana Rubber Chart
Dave Williams
rubber comparison chart, evolving steadily (if slowly :) since January
2002.
http://www.mcclarranwilliams.com/~client/NewChart.jpg
Some Quick Notes:
The new Yasaka rubbers are not in the chart because we have not yet had
the opportunity to test them.
The speed-spin paradigm is breaking down somewhat with the introduction
of new full featured, small cell sponge sponge "tensioned" products.
Unlike early attempts at "Glue Sound", the latest generation of super
rubbers are combining fast recovering small cell sponge into sandwiches
that offer new levels of speed and spin together. They are
categorically different from F1/Tensor etc. As the chart tries to
suggest visually, more traditional attacking rubber like Mendo MP and
Bryce is just plain fast and plays fast on anything you put under it.
In contrast, Cermet/Tempest/Makss/Hammond Pro Alpha/Driva Smash Ultima
are more sensitive to blade choice as they are softer and more
elastic. On slower softer blades they play much like traditional soft
sponge rubbers...but on fast blades they use quick rebounding sponge and
mechanical grip together to create speed and spin choices that are not
easily obtained with older style rubber. Tempest and Makss especially
offer super rubber speed only on fast blades and, as such, have the
widest "gearbox" of any rubbers now on the market.
Generally, spin attacking and spin control players above 1600 or so
should be loving life right now, with the availability of numerous
versatile new tools that ease the difficulty of choosing between spin,
speed and control.
This is by no means the final word, nor an objective rating system. We
think it does, however, generally group the rubbers in a useful way.
Thoughts and feedback are welcome. Hope this helps.
Lefty
Peter Moo Young
newsgroups...THANKS!!!!!
"Dave Williams" <da...@mcclarranwilliams.com> wrote in message
news:3E2554D9...@mcclarranwilliams.com...
Ken
I have admired your writing and reviews for two years now. Thanks a
lot for your contribution to our wonderfully sport.
That's a very lovely chart, very informative. However, it would be
even better to explain what the various colour dots stand for. There
is blue (e.g. Bryce), purple (e.g. Stiga Mendo MP), green (e.g.
Spintech Dynasty), white (e.g. Joola Telum), gray (e.g. Nittaku
Midship SC), black (e.g. Yasaka Mark V GPS), pink (e.g. Avalox
Pronte), and deep blue (e.g. Tibhar Rapid).
At first, I thought that's just to make it easy on the eyes or it's by
company but there's got to be some reasons behind having mostly purple
dots in the Small Cell Sponge or Tensioned Rubbers catagory.
Thanks.
Ken the PPMAN
Ken
Looper
Don, I think Blackjack Ace deserve a better speed rating than Innova
and its pedigree. Having tried Ace and Innova breeds on the same blade
(Joola K5) I found Ace to have more oomphs (glued or unglued ) than
Innova's. Ace also has more spin than Innova's. I hope this helps you
reformulate your rating.
Looper
Dave Williams
The colors represent brands. That sea of purple is an indication of
Stiga's leadership in creating small cell sponge variants and the blue
icing at the top shows how strong Butterfly's high end offerings really
are, in our estimation.
Dave Williams
Looper wrote:
>
> Don, I think Blackjack Ace deserve a better speed rating than Innova
> and its pedigree. Having tried Ace and Innova breeds on the same blade
> (Joola K5) I found Ace to have more oomphs (glued or unglued ) than
> Innova's. Ace also has more spin than Innova's. I hope this helps you
> reformulate your rating.
>
> Looper
We'll get right on that :) Our test crew really likes Blackjack Ace and, truth be known, we assisted in
developing and naming the product. Looking at the chart, we rate Ace as having more spin than all of the Innova
products, but is faster only than Innova Ultralight. The "other" Innovas all have slightly stiffer sponge and
earn slightly higher speed ratings as a result. Give us Dynasty in SV form and then you'll see a Spintech
product lodged squarely among the fastest and spinniest offerings available.
Michael
Firstly, you personally deserve the credit for helping us come up with the
"Ace" name suffix to the Blackjack rubber.
At the recently held US Nationals in Las Vegas, Spintech launched our newest
top of the line power spin rubber called Spintech Dynasty Gold our S.V.
version of our top of the line rubber, Spintech Dynasty. Kindly advise us
your preference of the sponge thickness so that we may ship you this product
for your lab enthusiasts.
At the US Nationals, we received a tremendous response to our Spintech
Dynasty Gold rubber. This rubber is truly a high tension rubber for the
power spin player who reglues and demands the fastest and spinniest rubber.
Incidently, at your convenience would yhu kindly include our Spintech
Blackjack rubber in your latest rubber chart. I think this particular
Spintech rubber matches the speed of some of the Air Pocket sponge rubbers
offered by other manufacturers.
Best regards,
Michael - Spintech
"Dave Williams" <da...@mcclarranwilliams.com> wrote in message
news:3E26E4FA...@mcclarranwilliams.com...
Dave Williams
Michael wrote:
> Hi Dave,
> Firstly, you personally deserve the credit for helping us come up with the
> "Ace" name suffix to the Blackjack rubber.
Aw shucks, Michael :) T'was nothin', really. Glad to do it. The Don Iguana
team thinks your approach to product development as a high-end rubber
impresario is quite clever and quite valuable to players worldwide. Time after
time, you've proven that you can source and select great products. Spin Power,
Dynasty and Blackjack are "solid citizens" on the US rubber scene and Enduro
Gold/Enduro Booster is, for our money, still the undisputed king of single
session speed gluing systems.
>
>
> At the recently held US Nationals in Las Vegas, Spintech launched our newest
> top of the line power spin rubber called Spintech Dynasty Gold our S.V.
> version of our top of the line rubber, Spintech Dynasty. Kindly advise us
> your preference of the sponge thickness so that we may ship you this product
> for your lab enthusiasts.
>
Max is most popular these days. We'll be glad to test red and black, thank you
:)
>
> At the US Nationals, we received a tremendous response to our Spintech
> Dynasty Gold rubber. This rubber is truly a high tension rubber for the
> power spin player who reglues and demands the fastest and spinniest rubber.
>
> Incidently, at your convenience would yhu kindly include our Spintech
> Blackjack rubber in your latest rubber chart. I think this particular
> Spintech rubber matches the speed of some of the Air Pocket sponge rubbers
> offered by other manufacturers.
>
Hmmmm. Better refresh our memory here. Red and black max, thank you :)
>
> Best regards,
>
> Michael - Spintech
>
PS Don't forget more glue, thank you :)
PSS And booster, thank you :)
watersl...@erols.com
credit for coming up with the Dynasty brand name, after having suggested
a bunch of choices. Naming stuff is fun.
Looking forward to the Dynasty Gold. A while ago I had Cheng Yinghua try
the normal Dynasty, and he was so impressed with it that he thought it
did everything better than his normal Bryce. He was also impressed with
a Blackjack Ace prototype sheet, but the Dynasty really fit him like a
glove. In one session Cheng liked it so much on one of my Spintech
blades, that he would not give it back -- he used it for my whole lesson
and I had to use his! The addition of a soft version of the high end
"Bryce Plus" Dynasty is an important event. I think many of us wish
there was a somewhat softer version of Bryce. If it is everything we've
heard, Dynasty Gold will more than fill the bill and make Spintech's
line more or less complete. They now have a very wide range of blades of
all speeds and feels, hard and soft, large and compact heads, thick and
thin, carbon and all wood, and most major types of rubbers, from hard to
soft sponge, short pips, long pips, Chinese style, Japanese style, air
pocket sponge etc etc, and the best glue & booster system around.
Although I am always tempted to switch, I still usually revert the
"plain ol" Spinpower SV on a fast wand, currently the Absolute Power
blade. It has carried me well through many an ironman session. :-)
Julian
Scott L. Burson
>
> By popular demand....here's a link to an update of Don's famous soft
> rubber comparison chart, evolving steadily (if slowly :) since January
> 2002.
Hi Dave!
Very interesting.
I have tried very few of these rubbers, but I have recently tried Pronte
and Mendo Energy, both on an ALL+ blade. The Mendo Energy seemed to be
the slower of the two, and I didn't notice that it made any less spin,
at least on hard shots; it does seem to have a bit of trouble making
spin on slow balls. I found I liked it, though. Compared to what I had
been using (Skitt Absolut, no longer available) it has a less extreme
throw angle, which makes it easier to place the ball accurately
depth-wise (for instance, when aiming for the sides).
Maybe I didn't give Pronte a fair chance -- my first reaction was that
it was too fast, as the sponge was too firm, so I didn't hit with it
very much. (I got it with the "medium" sponge, which I assume is what
you tested it with as well; I would love to try it with the "soft"
sponge, but Diego was out of these, last I checked.)
Are all of the points on your chart arrived at with similar applications
of speed glue or booster?
-- Scott
Dave Williams
"Scott L. Burson" wrote:
> Dave Williams wrote:
> >
> > By popular demand....here's a link to an update of Don's famous soft
> > rubber comparison chart, evolving steadily (if slowly :) since January
> > 2002.
>
> Hi Dave!
>
> Very interesting.
>
>
> Maybe I didn't give Pronte a fair chance -- my first reaction was that
> it was too fast, as the sponge was too firm, so I didn't hit with it
> very much. (I got it with the "medium" sponge, which I assume is what
> you tested it with as well; I would love to try it with the "soft"
> sponge, but Diego was out of these, last I checked.)
I found that the slower the blade the better Pronte works. It also really
loosens up after two or three good gluings, feeling less fast and more
spinny.
>
> Are all of the points on your chart arrived at with similar applications
> of speed glue or booster?
>
Yes, most all the test results are based on fresh glue jobs, primed sheets
and about a 15 mm dome using Spintech Enduro and Enduro Booster blended
50/50. Some of the newer rubbers were first tested with Tibhar Rapid
DeLuxe, but have since been used with Enduro.
Welcome back to The Game!
Scott L. Burson
>
> Welcome back to The Game!
Thanks!!
On my return to TT I found that neither of the rubbers I was using --
Skitt Absolut on the forehand and Donic Contact on the backhand -- is
still available. I think I can probably come up with a superior
replacement for Absolut, but how to replace my beloved Contact is a
puzzle. (I do have one unopened sheet left, so I can hold out for a few
more months.) It's an ALL+ super-spin rubber with great control, great
for serving and pushing, just fast enough to loop with and just slow
enough to chop with (even with a light dose of booster). Counters and
hits well too. The sponge is quite soft, and the topsheet manages to be
simultaneously sticky and elastic.
Desto F3 seems to be aimed at a similar target and might work okay,
though they say not to speed glue it (maybe it doesn't need it). I've
tried Chinese rubbers but they don't have the control of the Contact. I
see several things to try, like Spinspiel SV and Nittaku Magical Spin SC
(if Diego gets any more of it in), but I tried a lot of things before I
found the Contact.
Anyway, all these rubbers are probably slower than anything on your chart.
Suggestions welcomed...
I am going to give Desto F2 a try on my forehand. I'll report my
impressions of it vis-a-vis Mendo Energy and Pronte in a few weeks.
Thanks for all your work on this chart!
-- Scott
Andrew Gooding
thin, tacky Chinese topsheet and a medium Japanese sponge. Loosens up nicely
with a small amount of speedglue/booster and works with my very fast blades,
so it shouldn't be too fast for you. Might only come as 2.1 though.
Other options include Palio CJ8000A, which is not as consistent and Winning
738 with 21 sponge. Both have extremely soft sponges, are light with sticky
surface. The soft version of Avalox Pronte might also be up your alley.
-- Andrew
"Scott L. Burson" wrote:
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Arno Stienen
Tackiness D (Drive).
Arno.
"Scott L. Burson" <I.get.t...@spam.already> wrote in message
news:3E29B037...@spam.already...
Peter Moo Young
tried them both (I glue)..These should be superior replacements to your
present rig..
Moo
"Scott L. Burson" <I.get.t...@spam.already> wrote in message
news:3E29B037...@spam.already...
Michael
Your test package will be shipped to you folks on Tuesday. We look forward
to your feedback.
Best regards,
Michael - Spintech
"Dave Williams" <da...@mcclarranwilliams.com> wrote in message
news:3E27E8C2...@mcclarranwilliams.com...
Scott L. Burson
>
> I think you are right on the money with the Donic F2 and F3 combo...I have
> tried them both (I glue)..These should be superior replacements to your
> present rig..
You glue the F3? I had a suspicion this could be made to work, though
T.G. Enterprises (aka American Table Tennis) warns against it. Do you
use acetone to remove the rubber, or is the risk of tearing the sponge
not really all that great?
-- Scott
Scott L. Burson
>
> You could try Spintech Spinsonic SV. Very spinny and fairly slow with a
> thin, tacky Chinese topsheet and a medium Japanese sponge. Loosens up nicely
> with a small amount of speedglue/booster and works with my very fast blades,
> so it shouldn't be too fast for you. Might only come as 2.1 though.
>
> Other options include Palio CJ8000A, which is not as consistent and Winning
> 738 with 21 sponge. Both have extremely soft sponges, are light with sticky
> surface. The soft version of Avalox Pronte might also be up your alley.
Thanks for the suggestions. I don't see Spinsonic on the Spintech Web
site -- are you sure they're still making it?
I have tried several Chinese topsheet/Japanese sponge combos over the
years, including 729 and Avalox Purot. I think my favorite of this
genre is TSP 730 with the "Power" sponge -- Robbins (the official TSP
importer) doesn't carry it; a guy here in the SF Bay area sells it out
of the back of his van. It's pretty good, but all of these rubbers seem
to me to have a greater sensitivity to angle of attack than the Contact,
which makes them harder to control when spinning the ball hard
(particularly on fast pushes, which are a staple of my backhand game).
So my guess is that my next favorite backhand rubber is more likely to
have a Japanese than a Chinese topsheet. As I mentioned, I would love
to try Pronte Soft, if Diego gets any more of it in.
-- Scott
Scott L. Burson
>
> Contact sounds a bit like Butterfly Tackiness C (Chop) or Butterfly
> Tackiness D (Drive).
It's probably intermediate in speed between those two. I've never tried
Tackiness C and it's been years (like 15) since I tried Tackiness D, so
I can't really say.
Has anyone here tried Yasaka Extreme Spin or Nittaku Magical Spin?
Those seem like possible replacements. Alpha TT carries Magical Spin in
a soft-sponge SC version, though they're out of stock on it at the moment.
-- Scott
John Schneider
says...
of the top sheet wears off very quickly. Have you tried JUIC 999 Elite
SV?
Dave Williams
John Schneider wrote:
>
> >
> Extreme Spin is rather slow, even when speed glued. And the stickiness
> of the top sheet wears off very quickly. Have you tried JUIC 999 Elite
> SV?
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. John makes a good call for Scott here, IMO. The
problem with (even lightly) gluing the Donic Formula line is the life of the
top sheets. Once they stretch a couple times, they seem to get very dull and
almost slippery in our experience with them. No problems over wise, but they
do not seem to be up to the expanding and contracting part of speed gluing.
Velocity
from the sponge.
"Scott L. Burson" <I.get.t...@spam.already> wrote in message news:<3E2A3D9B...@spam.already>...
Arno Stienen
The
> problem with (even lightly) gluing the Donic Formula line is the life of
the
> top sheets. Once they stretch a couple times, they seem to get very dull
and
> almost slippery in our experience with them. No problems over wise, but
they
> do not seem to be up to the expanding and contracting part of speed
gluing.
>
Whereas the Butterfly Tackiness C or D series seem to have very 'natural
rubber' topsheets which will last a very, very long time. It aint fast, but
it is durable as hell.
Arno.
Scott L. Burson
>
> John Schneider wrote:
>
> > Extreme Spin is rather slow, even when speed glued.
Hmm, yeah, I see that T.G. rates it only a tick faster than Skitt
Anaconda Medium, which was my favorite before I found Contact. (Not to
suggest that T.G.'s ratings are perfectly reliable, but they are
indicative.) Anaconda does the control and spin thing really well, but
it's somewhat harder to end the point with than Contact.
> > And the stickiness of the top sheet wears off very quickly.
That's certainly a problem.
> > Have you tried JUIC 999 Elite SV?
>
> Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. John makes a good call for Scott here, IMO. The
> problem with (even lightly) gluing the Donic Formula line is the life of the
> top sheets. Once they stretch a couple times, they seem to get very dull and
> almost slippery in our experience with them. No problems over wise, but they
> do not seem to be up to the expanding and contracting part of speed gluing.
Interesting! Okay, I'll add the 999 Elite SV to my list.
I've already bought a sheet of Desto F2. I'll see if I have the same
experience with it. The topsheet seems very elastic -- I have a hard
time believing that the simple mechanics of expanding and contracting is
giving it trouble. Is it possible it's more compatible with one glue
solvent formulation than another? I'm sure the solvent gets into the topsheet...
-- Scott
Peter Moo Young
rubber comes off pretty easily.I have never torn a sheet nor seen one torn
so I dont know why the catalogue makes such a big deal about not regluing
these rubbers.
Formula Donic and in particular F3 has gotten pretty popular in Jamaica and
almost everybody (3 of 5 on the national mens squad) reglues it with pretty
decent results. I love Donic as a backhand rubber because of the high
mechanical grip and high throw.
"Scott L. Burson" <I.get.t...@spam.already> wrote in message
news:3E2A3D9B...@spam.already...
MFBaltaxe
extreme spin is from Yasaka
Scott L. Burson
>
> I have been doing this for years! My blade is lightly lacquered so the
> rubber comes off pretty easily.I have never torn a sheet nor seen one torn
> so I dont know why the catalogue makes such a big deal about not regluing
> these rubbers.
> Formula Donic and in particular F3 has gotten pretty popular in Jamaica and
> almost everybody (3 of 5 on the national mens squad) reglues it with pretty
> decent results. I love Donic as a backhand rubber because of the high
> mechanical grip and high throw.
Okay, I'll give it a try. What kind of glue do you use?
-- Scott
Kagin
>
> Dave Williams wrote:
> > life of the top sheets. Once they stretch a couple times, they seem
> > to get very dull and almost slippery in our experience with them. No
> > problems over wise, but they do not seem to be up to the expanding
> > and contracting part of speed gluing.
>
> Interesting! Okay, I'll add the 999 Elite SV to my list.
>
> I've already bought a sheet of Desto F2. I'll see if I have the same
> experience with it. The topsheet seems very elastic -- I have a hard
> time believing that the simple mechanics of expanding and contracting is
> giving it trouble. Is it possible it's more compatible with one glue
> solvent formulation than another? I'm sure the solvent gets into the
> topsheet...
From my experience F2 is the best of the line by far, as it is the only
one whose topsheet doesn't wear down after a month. For me, the F1 and
F3 topsheets quickly wore down regardless of whether or not i reglued.
I would argue that the desto f-series rubbers should only be used
with speed glue. If you're not speed gluing, don't use this rubber,
or any other rubber that has a reverse dome in its inert state.
Without speed glue, they'll make some sound and have some of the
same feel as speed glued rubber but the dynamics will be worse;
not as much speed or spin as speed glued rubber, not as much touch
as normal rubber.
Peter Moo Young
times.
"Scott L. Burson" <I.get.t...@spam.already> wrote in message
news:3E2C3986...@spam.already...