What Are The Spinniest Pips???
Sigmund
I want the speed and control of pips for my fast attack game, but
still want to generate some spin on serves. Judging by the Paddle
Palace catelog, Juic "Offense" has the highest spin rating for a pips
out rubber. What do you think?
Thanx!!!
Arno Stienen
Sigmund wrote:
"Spin Pips" by TSP is supposed to be the spinniest pips rubber.
Arno.
shay_t...@magic-sw.com
more of a determined answer your question should include the
"group" of pips you are talking about. Short, long or medium,
since every group has it's "spinniest" rubber and the characteristics
are COMPLETELY different.
Best regards
Shay Tochner
--
Posted using Reference.COM http://www.reference.com
Browse, Search and Post Usenet and Mailing list Archive and Catalog.
Sift, Inc. accepts no responsibility for the content of this posting.
Sigmund
On 5 Dec 1997 11:40:32 GMT, shay_t...@magic-sw.com wrote:
>
>On Fri, 05 Dec 1997 03:19:29 +0100, Arno Stienen <Arno.S...@kabelfoon.nl> wrote:
>> Sigmund wrote:
> > I want the speed and control of pips for my fast attack game, but
>> > still want to generate some spin on serves. Judging by the Paddle
>> > Palace catelog, Juic "Offense" has the highest spin rating for a pips
>> > out rubber. What do you think?
>> > Thanx!!!
>> "Spin Pips" by TSP is supposed to be the spinniest pips rubber.
>> Arno.
>What Arno has said is definitely right, but in order to get much
>more of a determined answer your question should include the
>"group" of pips you are talking about. Short, long or medium,
>since every group has it's "spinniest" rubber and the characteristics
>are COMPLETELY different.
>Best regards
Yes, well put. I was referring to short pips for my main side of the
paddle. I've heard some good things through e-mail about Juic 889, and
it seems to be very widely used. It looks like my decision for a
"spinny" (for pips) and quick rubber is between TSP spin pips and Juic
889.
Anybody else have useful information on this topic?
J.Waters
Shay,
Did you receive my private email to you which I sent Tues 2 Dec.
concerning tapes etc? If so, I'd appreciate an off-the NG response.
Thanks, JW
Cyberspace Architect
> > > I want the speed and control of pips for my fast attack game, but
> >> > still want to generate some spin on serves. Judging by the Paddle
> >> > Palace catelog, Juic "Offense" has the highest spin rating for a pips
> >> > out rubber. What do you think?
The spinniest pips are those that face the sponge. :=))
---
Roy SeGuine Cyberspace Architect rseg...@clark.net
*Access to power must be confined to those who are not in love with it*
David J. Roberts
Sigmund wrote:
>
> On 5 Dec 1997 11:40:32 GMT, shay_t...@magic-sw.com wrote:
>
> >
>
> >On Fri, 05 Dec 1997 03:19:29 +0100, Arno Stienen <Arno.S...@kabelfoon.nl> wrote:
>
> >> Sigmund wrote:
>
> >> > still want to generate some spin on serves. Judging by the Paddle
> >> > Palace catelog, Juic "Offense" has the highest spin rating for a pips
> >> > out rubber. What do you think?
>
>
> >> "Spin Pips" by TSP is supposed to be the spinniest pips rubber.
>
> >> Arno.
>
> >What Arno has said is definitely right, but in order to get much
> >more of a determined answer your question should include the
> >"group" of pips you are talking about. Short, long or medium,
> >since every group has it's "spinniest" rubber and the characteristics
> >are COMPLETELY different.
> >Best regards
>
> Yes, well put. I was referring to short pips for my main side of the
> paddle. I've heard some good things through e-mail about Juic 889, and
> it seems to be very widely used. It looks like my decision for a
> "spinny" (for pips) and quick rubber is between TSP spin pips and Juic
> 889.
>
> Anybody else have useful information on this topic?
Before you end your search and make a decision, try Friendship 802.
Widely used in China, they have spinny, wide, close-together pips. Good
control, a bit slower, good spin, and troubling for your opponent when
you flat hit. However...it's hard to find and even if you do you'll
likely need to find your own sponge (the softer the better). I recall
somebody advertising in the TT mag.
David
Seattle
shay_t...@magic-sw.com
PF4 652, which I use. But it all is a matter of taste.
You have to realize one thing: In ALL pips rubbers the amount of
spin you send back absolutely depends on the spin your oponent
sent to you originally, and strictly depends on the length
of your "contact time" your bat has with the ball while hitting it.
You can achive "almost" everything using any of the mentioned
rubbers, and generally - YOU are "fine tunning" the final effect
and not the rubber, thus no matter which rubber you are using,
you need to practice hard to get the absolute control of it.
Good luck
Ming ^_^
Sigmund wrote:
>
>
> Yes, well put. I was referring to short pips for my main side of the
> paddle. I've heard some good things through e-mail about Juic 889, and
> it seems to be very widely used. It looks like my decision for a
> "spinny" (for pips) and quick rubber is between TSP spin pips and Juic
> 889.
>
> Anybody else have useful information on this topic?
A lot of my friends told me TSP spin pip is spinnest and also much
better than 889 in every dimension. have you think about TSP Spectol?
It is faster than spin pips but not that spinny, it may be something
you are looking for.. Wang Tao (CHN) use Spectol on his BH
Kelvin Cheung
Generally speaking, pips out rubber can be classified into two groups based on the
materials: the classic Chinese pips generates more spin but less speed (called "SOU"
rubber, that's the chinese pronounciation). Another type is mostly represented by the
Japanese pips, generally, they creates less spin but they are faster (called "SAN"
rubber). So, 889 and Spinpips are all "SOU" rubbers (and they are all made in China
despite they are carried by Japanese manufacturers).
Spinpips has three versions (regular, speed-sponge, chop) while 889 has two (regular,
SV). I have used both regular versions. Personally, I like Spinpips better. On the
regular version, Spinpips has a softer sponge and it is easier to generate spin and
offers better control. Although the sponge is soft, it does not affect the speed too
much (I have also used the speed-sponge version and its sponge is a little bit more
dynamic but it is still softer compared to the semi-hard sponge found on regular 889).
What I observed on these two rubbers is that Spinpips also creates a more sinking effect
when you hit or push the ball. That is also something Johnny Huang points out in a
conversation with me (he usese Spinpips as well as Liu Guoliang).
I just read a post regarding another pips-out rubber (Friendship 802). It is a very
tradition "SOU" rubber and those wide, large pips creates sustensial spin. The problem
is that you might get different sponge on it (that's the quality control problem you
might find in Friendship). The version I used is not that fast and I do not like the
sponge too much.
Kelvin
shay_t...@magic-sw.com
the Chinese Double Happiness PF4 652 into this classification,
since it has some spin (I will rate it 3-4 of 10) but 9+
speed - it is faster than the inverted rubbers I use (Donic
Desto or even Donic Waldner)...
Yunfei Chen
My experience has been: the Chinese pips rubbers are good for both speed and
spin, but the Japanese sponge gives speed and stability. I tried JUIC889,
Spinpips and Butterfly Impartial (both only briefly), Double Happiness
PF4-652, DH651, and Globe 889. I liked the JUIC889 and Spinpips best because
the combination of Chinese rubber and Japanese sponge gives good spin,
speed, and stability. They are also good for looping backspin balls. The
Globe 889 (which has the same rubber as JUIC889 but Chinese sponge I
suppose) is very fast, but lacks stability, and is hard to loop with. The
DH pips are spinny, but not as fast (still faster than most inverted
though). However, the loss in speed with these DH rubbers must be from the
sponge, and not the rubber themselves. I don't like the Impartial very
well, because the Jap pips seem to be slightly longer than the Chinese pips,
and the feel with the rubber is somewhat too soft.
Y CHEN
--
shay_t...@magic-sw.com
In article <66h6l1$sij$1...@news.iastate.edu>,
What did you find wrong with the Double Happiness PF4 652??
It is slowly becoming the most popular short pips rubber here, since it
combines most of the characteristics you mentioned. IMHO this is
definitely the best choice for twiddlers (those who change sides of the
racket).
Shay Tochner
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Yunfei Chen
To answer Shay Tochner's question:
I think DH PF4-652 is a good rubber. In fact I used it for many years. But
the Chinese sponge is what I dislike after comparing with Japanese ones.
First, if you want equal speed, the Chinese sponge has to be quite hard, and
that makes it difficult to loop the backspins. But the Japanese hard
sponges can still loop well.
Then if you go to softer Chinese sponge, you can loop well, but it will be a
slower rubber, and more affected by opponent's spin, especially when I
(penholder) block on backhand (you know it's not a natural thing to do for a
regular backhand block).
The Japanese sponge kind of combines the advantages. The only disadvantages
I can think of is:
1. The ball that is blocked back may be not as dead as the Chinese sponge.
2. You get less feeling when hitting the ball, especially when you are not
hitting with power.
Does that explain why many top Chinese players use Chinese rubber plus
Japanese sponge combinations? CHEN Longcan -- JUIC889, LIU Guoliang --
used to use JUIC889 and now Spinpips? What about Wang Tao's Spectol?
Of course for players who want a dead effect and never loop with pips, the
Chinese sponge may actually be a better choice.
Y CHEN
--
shay_t...@magic-sw.com
Hi Chen!
This is a very nice analysis. Do you know if any of the European
top players use the mentioned JUIC rubber?
Shay Tochner
tigerman
Guys,
Thanks for enlightening me with all the discussions on spinny pips. My
questions is, where can I find/purchase some of these, especially ASTI
Spinpips? I don't see Paddle Palace or Sunmark carry it. Any pointers
will be appreciated.
bty
On 8 Dec 1997 16:18:41 GMT, yu...@iastate.edu (Yunfei Chen) wrote:
>My experience has been: the Chinese pips rubbers are good for both speed and
>spin, but the Japanese sponge gives speed and stability. I tried JUIC889,
>Spinpips and Butterfly Impartial (both only briefly), Double Happiness
>PF4-652, DH651, and Globe 889. I liked the JUIC889 and Spinpips best because
>the combination of Chinese rubber and Japanese sponge gives good spin,
>speed, and stability. They are also good for looping backspin balls. The
>Globe 889 (which has the same rubber as JUIC889 but Chinese sponge I
>suppose) is very fast, but lacks stability, and is hard to loop with. The
>DH pips are spinny, but not as fast (still faster than most inverted
>though). However, the loss in speed with these DH rubbers must be from the
>sponge, and not the rubber themselves. I don't like the Impartial very
>well, because the Jap pips seem to be slightly longer than the Chinese pips,
>and the feel with the rubber is somewhat too soft.
>
>Y CHEN
>
what you think about out pips
such as Friendship RITC 799
and Friendship 802
>--
>
bty
>Sigmund wrote:
>>
>> On 5 Dec 1997 11:40:32 GMT, shay_t...@magic-sw.com wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> >On Fri, 05 Dec 1997 03:19:29 +0100, Arno Stienen <Arno.S...@kabelfoon.nl> wrote:
>>
>> >> Sigmund wrote:
>>
>> > > I want the speed and control of pips for my fast attack game, but
>> >> > still want to generate some spin on serves. Judging by the Paddle
>> >> > Palace catelog, Juic "Offense" has the highest spin rating for a pips
>> >> > out rubber. What do you think?
>>
>> >> > Thanx!!!
>>
>> >> "Spin Pips" by TSP is supposed to be the spinniest pips rubber.
>>
>> >> Arno.
>>
>> >What Arno has said is definitely right, but in order to get much
>> >more of a determined answer your question should include the
>> >"group" of pips you are talking about. Short, long or medium,
>> >since every group has it's "spinniest" rubber and the characteristics
>> >are COMPLETELY different.
>> >Best regards
>>
>> Yes, well put. I was referring to short pips for my main side of the
>> paddle. I've heard some good things through e-mail about Juic 889, and
>> it seems to be very widely used. It looks like my decision for a
>> "spinny" (for pips) and quick rubber is between TSP spin pips and Juic
>> 889.
>>
>> Anybody else have useful information on this topic?
>
>Before you end your search and make a decision, try Friendship 802.
>Widely used in China, they have spinny, wide, close-together pips. Good
>control, a bit slower, good spin, and troubling for your opponent when
>you flat hit. However...it's hard to find and even if you do you'll
>likely need to find your own sponge (the softer the better). I recall
>somebody advertising in the TT mag.
>
>David
>Seattle
I used RITC 802 and RITC 799
sold for about $13 from a local dealer here in LA.
Sponge and rubber sheet are not separated as you described.
I like RITC 799 better.
Yunfei Chen
I don't know any European players who use short pips. Sounds like almost
all Europeans use inverted both sides.
To answer the question (sent to me by e-mail, but I could not send the reply
out) about 799 and 802, sorry I haven't used Friendship 799, and only
briefly 802. That 802 had a thin sponge so was not very good for attack
play. But the rubber itself looked right for attacking, maybe just needs a
good sponge.
Y CHEN
--
Arno Stienen
Yunfei Chen wrote:
> I don't know any European players who use short pips. Sounds like almost
> all Europeans use inverted both sides.
Indeed, I also can't name any authentic European players with short pips in the
men game. Although many European women do use them and then mostly on the
backhand.
Arno.
Diego Schaaf
In article <3488AF...@u.washington.edu>, robe...@u.washington.edu wrote:
> Before you end your search and make a decision, try Friendship 802.
> Widely used in China, they have spinny, wide, close-together pips. Good
> control, a bit slower, good spin, and troubling for your opponent when
> you flat hit. However...it's hard to find and even if you do you'll
> likely need to find your own sponge (the softer the better). I recall
> somebody advertising in the TT mag.
>
> David
> Seattle
For those of you interested in more info about Chinese pips, check out
www.loop.com/~ds and navigate to the pips page.
Diego Schaaf
Ming ^_^
How about Carl Prean from England? Is he using pips on his BH?
David J. Roberts
Prean's using long pips, not short pips. I agree with Arno, there seem
to be no top European men using short pips on the backhand. Considering
China's success (Wang Tao) with this style (aside from Wang Tao, a lot
of province team players still use this combination, and Ma Wenge won
the Chinese National Championships with short pips on the backhand), I
wonder why no European players have used it.
I once posited that several top European players might profit from short
pips on the backhand, especially those with close-to-the table
fast-attack styles, and not-especially strong backhand loops. I'm
thinking primarily of Gatien (though I can think of a few others). I
would be curious to hear what any of the Europeans on this ng have to
say about the complete lack of this style in Europe. Just wondering.
David
Seattle
Arno Stienen
David J. Roberts wrote:
> I once posited that several top European players might profit from short
> pips on the backhand, especially those with close-to-the table
> fast-attack styles, and not-especially strong backhand loops. I'm
> thinking primarily of Gatien (though I can think of a few others). I
> would be curious to hear what any of the Europeans on this ng have to
> say about the complete lack of this style in Europe. Just wondering.
Probably because evolution processes keep them from becoming world-class. I do not know
this for sure but it is likely players who try short-pips are structurally beaten
because of the lack of topspin, and so pressure, which can be given.
Here in the Netherlands there are short-pips players in all levels but relatively less
at the top. The world-class level could just be to high for (European, not Asian)
short-pips players. For instance TT-developments have also closed out the use of
Anti-topspin.
Arno,
Nederland.
Larry Hodges
Ming ^_^ wrote:
>
> How about Carl Prean from England? Is he using pips on his BH?
Carl Prean uses long pips on his backhand, and attacks with it, similar
to Deng Yaping. (I'm not totally certain if his pips would be
classified as long or medium, but I'm pretty certain they are regular
long pips.)
-Larry Hodges
Larry Hodges
David J. Roberts wrote:
>
> I agree with Arno, there seem
> to be no top European men using short pips on the backhand.
The only one I can think of is Michael Frank, former member of the
Swedish team in the 1980s and possibly early 1990s. (I don't think he
ever played at the Worlds representing Sweden, however.) Can we count
the Czech Milan Orlowski from the 70s, and Sweden's Stellan Bengsston at
the end of his career? (Quarterfinals of 1977 worlds with pips on
backhand.)
-Larry Hodges
LoopLoop
I believe Sonnet from Belgium uses short pips on the backhand. He played for
Belgium at the 1993 Worlds. I don't know if he still represents Belgium. He
came to NJ Westfield club about a year ago so I had a chance to see him play.
David Zhuang played him a match and won 3-0.
Sung
Ola Agren
On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Arno Stienen wrote:
Stellan Bentsson used to play with short pips on his backhand side (he
might still do it, I'm not sure). He didn't do that back in 1971 when he
won the world championship, but when he got to no 3 at a later world
championship he did.
> Arno,
> Nederland.
/Ola
--
Ola Ågren * co...@ts.umu.se * o...@cs.umu.se
General Preprocessing Perceptron -
How to put an awful lot of "knowledge" in a weighted sum.
Larry Hodges
Ola Agren wrote:
>
> Stellan Bentsson used to play with short pips on his backhand side (he
> might still do it, I'm not sure). He didn't do that back in 1971 when
> he won the world championship, but when he got to no 3 at a later
> world championship he did.
Stellan Bengsston used inverted on both sides when winning the 1971
Men's Singles World Championship at age 17. He later switched to short
pips on the backhand. His best result with pips was the 1977 World
Championships, where he lost 19 in the 5th in the quarterfinals to
eventual champion Mitsuro Kohno of Japan. Most observers considered
that quarterfinal match the "real" final, as the two clearly were
outplaying the rest of the field at that time. I watched and studied
Bengsston on that tape many, many times (50+ times?) in the late 1970s
as I was developing my game. Even though he lost, it was an
inspirational match to watch (just as I'm sure Kohno was an inspiration
to pips-out penholders).
-Larry Hodges
s-...@usa.net
Windows 98 & Windows NT-5 Megasites , Freewares
New players click here for TT links , clubs, FAQs, rules
>>http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/qxjanc/Kiss2ColorRuleGoodBye.html
You seem to be new to this newsgroup & I don't want to jump all over
you. I am not happy about the crap you posted here.
I suggest you recheck the facts again as to who started what
My next posting on this won't be very nice.
s-...@usa.net
Windows 98 & Windows NT-5 Megasites , Freewares
New players click here for TT links , clubs, FAQs, rules
>>http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/qxjanc/Kiss2ColorRuleGoodBye.html
Larry's endless obsession with the 97 US Open has me wondering about
the tournament circuit.
Would you rather have no tournament at all or would you accept a
presence of a tournament even if it is not run perfectly ?
I am talking about all types of tournaments no star thru five star
What are the factors involved ?
What happened to tournaments like Augusta Hall of Fame , St.Joseph's ,
Sears, & th one in Missouri etc ?
sha...@netusa1.net
In article <349880b3...@news.erols.com>,
s-...@usa.net wrote:
>
> What happened to tournaments like Augusta Hall of Fame , St.Joseph's ,
> Sears, & th one in Missouri etc ?
Hearsay information:
1. Sears continues to be run as before
2. St. Joe Valley used to be a four-star tournament. It is now a
two-star tournament. I think that the USATT used to do a couple
of things making it possible for the St. Joe Valley tournament to
be big - the USATT does not do this anymore. The two things are:
a. Give some money for running the tournament
b. Award the four-star tournament to the South Bend club
sufficiently early so that their financial risk is (somehow)
minimized.
Without the above two, a four-star tournament is not possible.
(Notre Dame's Joyce Center - where the tournament used to
be held - costs about $5000/day.]
Larry Hodges
sha...@netusa1.net wrote:
>
> In article <349880b3...@news.erols.com>,
> s-...@usa.net wrote:
>
> >
> > What happened to tournaments like Augusta Hall of Fame , St.Joseph's ,
> > Sears, & th one in Missouri etc ?
>
> Hearsay information:
>
> 1. Sears continues to be run as before
Sears tournament was cancelled this year. As far as I know, it, along
with the St. Joseph Valley Open, Missouri Open, Chinese New Year Open,
Hall of Fame Open, Junior Regionals, and (last year, at least) College
Team Championships have all died in the past few years. There are now
very few 4-star tournaments compared to before. (The only ones left,
besides the national tournaments, are the Louisiana Open, Pac-Rim Open,
Sun TV Open, and - if it still exists? the Vietnamese New Year Open. Did
I miss any?)
"Arch-Rivals" of the current USATT leaders Dan Seemiller & myself are
reviving some 4-star touraments. Dan keeps running the Sun TV Open in
Pittsburgh, and I heard he may try to run the St. Joseph Valley Open as
a 4-star tournament again. I am setting up the first Eastern Open since
I think 1990 or 1991.
There must be some reason why so many 4-star and other high-level
tournaments have died. I know the Seemiller administration was very
good in helping out these tournaments, as that was one of his
priorities.
-Larry Hodges
Larry Hodges
s-...@usa.net wrote:
>
> Windows 98 & Windows NT-5 Megasites , Freewares
> New players click here for TT links , clubs, FAQs, rules
> >>http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/qxjanc/Kiss2ColorRuleGoodBye.html
>
> Larry's endless obsession with the 97 US Open has me wondering about
> the tournament circuit.
>
> Would you rather have no tournament at all or would you accept a
> presence of a tournament even if it is not run perfectly ?
> I am talking about all types of tournaments no star thru five star
For U.S. Opens, I'd like USATT to go back to the well-run U.S. Opens in
1991, 1992, 1993 and 1995. The major thing they all had in common was
that they were all run/organized by Donna Sakai, who was replaced by
Y.C. Lee when Timmins was elected President in 1995.
> What happened to tournaments like Augusta Hall of Fame , St.Joseph's ,
> Sears, & th one in Missouri etc ?
They've all died, as have many other major tournaments (Sears
Invitational, Chinese New Year, Junior Regionals, last year's College
Team Championships, etc.) Perhaps you should contact USATT and ask them
why they believe these tournaments have all died, with few new ones, or
whether it is just a coincidence?
-Larry Hodges
Director, 1998 Eastern Open
March 20-22, 1998
http://jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu/~rtl1/eastern/
Terry Canup
The 4 star Southern Open is still run every year.
Scott Priess could probably tell us more about the former Sears
Tournament series.
It has been several years since the Easterns was last run. It was
always very popular and it is good to see it back.
T.C.
Larry Hodges
Ooops, I missed the Southern Open. That should have been an obvious one
to remember.
-Larry
djma...@tasc.com
> There must be some reason why so many 4-star and other high-level
> tournaments have died.
They are a lot of work and you have to be a little nuts to run a
tournament. Some of the folks who used to run such tournaments don't any
more and no new fools have appeared. Dennis Masters, Yvonne Kronlage, and
Jay Harris were to blame for many of the large tournaments in the 80's
and early 90's.
We actually cancelled the Teams one summer several years ago, but then
uncancelled it a couple of months later. It is on for next year, by the
way. Mark your calendars: November 27-29, 1998.
--
David Marcus
sha...@netusa1.net
In article <349EBB...@erols.com>,
ttw...@erols.com wrote:
< snip >
> Sears tournament was cancelled this year. As far as I know, it, along
> with the St. Joseph Valley Open,
< snip >
At the moment, it looks like the St. Joseph Valley Open will be held
as a four-star tournament in 1998, at the Joyce Center on the Notre
Dame campus.
Secor1
I think it is a shame that so few big events other then the majors (Nationals,
Open, Detriot). I am left wondering if the USATT is to concerned with "other
matters" then with promoting what I feel is one of the best ways to promote the
sport within the US borders.
Of course on this NG everything must be supported so let me support.
Personally have played in two Sun TV Opens I have found that not only did it
attract most of the top US players it was also locally successful and made
quite a draw from the whole Eastern Seaboard. SUch participation raises
memberships and increases the competive level of US Table Tennis as a whole.
4 star tournaments also seem more devoid of "political interests". I am sorry
to say this but each major seems to be surronded in some type of political
fury. Because I am rather new to the sport(2 years) I am not sure if this is a
new trend or a rather disturbingly methodical one. At any rate 4 star
tournaments give top players exposure and competive tournaments to tune for
majors and improve their game. They also allow other players to enjoy the top
players at their best(abset of political murk).
I metioned I thought the current USATT administration lacked support for four
star tournaments. If I am incorrect please point out my err. However I do
know, as Larry Hodges said that Danny Seemiller made it a point that four star
Tournamnets wewre prevelant and diverse. By that I mean they were located in
areas for all players and not localized as they are unfortuantley becoming.
The Sun TV and Easterns are held in adjancent states because the people with
the motivated to have this events are there. It is not a clear effort or the
administration but instead the will of few that keep the modest number of 4
star tournaments alive.
Respect to All,
Jon O'Donnell
GVTTC