Knee injuries from table tennis?
Michael Moy
Is Chondromalacia common among table tennis players? This injury
is also known as runner's knee and tennis knee.
Michael Moy
Pablo Teodoro wrote:
>
> What are the symptoms? I have had some knee pain and a sensation of
> looseness under the kneecap.
Pain or soreness under or behind the kneecap. I sometimes get
clicking laterally too.
mehran & hagop Kabraelian
Michael Moy wrote:
>
> Is Chondromalacia common among table tennis players? This injury
> is also known as runner's knee and tennis knee.
I had a knee injury while I was playing, but it is not the same one I
hurt my cartlige my ligament and the minuscus, I stopped for 2 years but
now I got back to play it's been a year, I wear a brace when I play,
knee injuries are frequent in table tennis these days.
Robert Mayer
> Pain or soreness under or behind the kneecap. I sometimes get
> clicking laterally too.
>
>
known several other players with similar problems. However, I cannot blame
this on table tennis as I first noticed it prior to getting involved with
the sport. I do, however, have difficulties with it when I'm playing
sometimes. I have found that doing leg extensions at the gym apparently
strengthens the muscles around the knee and offers a significant amount of
relief to the problem.
- Robert -
shay_t...@magic-sw.com
This is a very important jubject that you brought up.
Unfortunately, having done many kinds of sports for many years (I am now 47),
I had the experience with almost all of the common sport injuries . My main
sports for years were basketball (32 years)and martial arts (karate do - 25
years) thus table tennis was only the third in priority.
Summarizing my experience taking into consideration my friends' experience
as well, it is absolutely clear to all of us that the most destructive sport
for your body is basketball, which constantly ruins your knees and your lower
back, besides the fact that you are exposed all the time to the hazzards of
traumatic injuries, which really occur the higher your level of playing
is. This explains the fact that basketball career is usually very short,
with some exceptions.
An interesting fact is that the number of traumatic (accidental) injuries
from karate is very neglectible (despite the reputation it has...) and there
is some sort of accumulative damage to your knees, which can be considerably
reduced if you have a good instructor which puts an emphasize on the subject
how to avoid it by controlling your kicks...
Let's get back to our subject- Table Tennis.
At the age of 42 I had to drop karate and basketball due to a severe knees
damage (caused by the other sports) and concentrated on TT as a heavy player
(I practice and play about 15 hours a week or more). I consulted with few
sports medicine specialists (doctors,trainers and physical therapists) before
having started in order to get an answer to the question you have just
posted.
The answer I got was that the sport CAN CAUSE a damage to the knees, both
traumatic (bad moves, falling etc...) and accumulative, but it can be
considerably reduced if you do the following: Warm up correctly before
playing, learn how to move correctly mainly to the sides but also in and out
from the table, be cautious, but MAINLY: Wear the special protective knee
pads.
There are special orthopedic pads with silicon around your knee that prevent
your knees from moving in wrong directions. I have to admit that I never play
without them and since having started using them the condition of my knees
has not got worse despite of my heavy playing, and actually got better, thus
acts like climing up stairs (and going down), long distance walking etc. are
done much more easily now.
In the beginning I felt like I was a bit limited on my TT playing because of
the pads, but having got used to them the limitation does not exist now any
more.
So my advice to you is: There is hope. You must consult an orthopedic
surgeopn in order to get the most suitable knees accessory for you, learn how
to move correctly and .... Enjoy the game.
Best regards
Shay Tochner
In article <350685...@juno.com>,
m_...@juno.com wrote:
>
> Is Chondromalacia common among table tennis players? This injury
> is also known as runner's knee and tennis knee.
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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Michael Moy
shay_t...@magic-sw.com wrote:
> At the age of 42 I had to drop karate and basketball due to a severe knees
> damage (caused by the other sports) and concentrated on TT as a heavy player
> (I practice and play about 15 hours a week or more). I consulted with few
> sports medicine specialists (doctors,trainers and physical therapists) before
> having started in order to get an answer to the question you have just
> posted.
>
> The answer I got was that the sport CAN CAUSE a damage to the knees, both
> traumatic (bad moves, falling etc...) and accumulative, but it can be
> considerably reduced if you do the following: Warm up correctly before
> playing, learn how to move correctly mainly to the sides but also in and out
> from the table, be cautious, but MAINLY: Wear the special protective knee
> pads.
I have been wearing the neoprene open patella supports but these only
helped a little. I tried another type with velcro supports above and
below the kneecaps (I believe that these also have lateral supports
too) because someone else here showed me one (she was recovering from
ACL/MCL surgery and a broken kneecap). The brace limits the knees
movement and provides more support. I wore this thing for about half
the day yesterday (including about 30 minutes of table-tennis) and
the leg with the velcro brace was much better than the leg with
the non-velcro brace. Only negative is that it's a little harder
to step on the clutch when I drive.
> There are special orthopedic pads with silicon around your knee that prevent
> your knees from moving in wrong directions. I have to admit that I never play
> without them and since having started using them the condition of my knees
> has not got worse despite of my heavy playing, and actually got better, thus
> acts like climing up stairs (and going down), long distance walking etc. are
> done much more easily now.
>
> In the beginning I felt like I was a bit limited on my TT playing because of
> the pads, but having got used to them the limitation does not exist now any
> more.
> So my advice to you is: There is hope. You must consult an orthopedic
> surgeopn in order to get the most suitable knees accessory for you, learn how
> to move correctly and .... Enjoy the game.
I went to a doctor that knew about orthopedics though he wasn't a
specialist and he gave me a book with exercises and stretches and
I've been taking a break from running. I've cut back on my table-tennis
but have picked up on weight training and using a windjammer to
compensate. If the brace does the job, then I may go back to playing
tt more.
Thanks for your post.
michael
Pablo & Lynda Teodoro
Michael -
What was the brand name of the brace that seems to help?
Pablo.
Michael Moy
Pablo & Lynda Teodoro wrote:
>
> Michael -
>
> What was the brand name of the brace that seems to help?
Tru-Fit. They make quite a variety. I tried the plain neoprene
but there isn't much support. I then tried the three piece
velcro and found that the edges dug into the skin. I tried
the neoprene with two velcro straps and this has worked well
for the two days that I've worn it. I used the plain neoprene
on the other leg as a control.
These things range from $10 to $26 at Sports Authority. I
probably could have gotten them from my health plan next
to nothing but didn't want to go through the paperwork for
durable medical equipment.
I'm sure that more sophisticated braces are available at
medical supply stores.
I'm also strengthening the quads (though they seem strong to
me) and stretching the quads, hams and calfs.
michael
Mikhail Sushchik
Pablo Teodoro wrote:
> What are the symptoms? I have had some knee pain and a sensation of
> looseness under the kneecap.
>
> Michael Moy wrote:
>
> > Is Chondromalacia common among table tennis players? This injury
> > is also known as runner's knee and tennis knee.
>
Ask *me* about knee injuries in table tennis. I have torn ACL and one other
ligament after one clumsy jump.
ACL, of course, did not heal and I did not have the surgery, so I have to
ware a brace when I play.
What I recently found out is that there may be many people out there who have
torn ACL but never found out about it. ACL tears with a pop (which I did not
hear) and this usually causes the knee to collapse. However after this
happens, about 1/3 of all people are able to resume their normal activities.
For many of them the only way to find out that they have this condition is to
go to an orthopedic specialist and do the test with the device called
something like KT-9000. The subjective tests that the doctor might want to
limit his examination to sometimes fail to detect the torn ACL. If you do not
belong to this fortunate 1/3, you will feel some instability and looseness in
the knee joint. If you have the ACL deficiency and continue abusing your
knee without any protection, you may cause further deterioration of the
meniscus and, perhaps, arthritis.
If you have knee or lower back problems, try softer shoes (volleyball shoes
rather than TT shoes) and try not to put your weight on the heels. I
recently had some lower back problems and was amazed by how much difference
moving on the tips (?) of your feet makes.
Misha.
Wye Shimamura
I'm putting this in from Tokyo. How do I get hold of a pair of Tru-Fit? Am
63 and can use them. Thanks.
Wye
shay_t...@magic-sw.com
I guess you do not have to go to the brand name Tru-fit. There are many
similar accessories made in different countries and I am sure that there are
very good Japanese made ones.
The most important is to understand what the differens braces and pads do and
which models does what. I figured out that the fastest, most reliable and
cheapest way to choose the right one is by consulting a sports-medicine
specialist who can analyse exactly what is your need. The moment you
understand exactly what kind of support is needed you have a variaty of names
to choose from, like we have over here.
There is no doubt about the fact that strengthening the supporting muscles
below and above the knees are the best complementary action to wearing the
braces, and together it makes an incredible improvement to your quality of
life, including of course sport and TT particularly...
Best regards
Shay Tochner
In article <B130C34...@210.132.184.154>,
xxyzz
shay_t...@magic-sw.com wrote:
> The most important is to understand what the differens braces and pads do and
> which models does what. I figured out that the fastest, most reliable and
> cheapest way to choose the right one is by consulting a sports-medicine
> specialist who can analyse exactly what is your need. The moment you
> understand exactly what kind of support is needed you have a variaty of names
> to choose from, like we have over here.
I guess I need to see your Doctor :) I have seen about 6 "sports medicine"
doctors across the country and my right knee is still giving me fits. One doctor
said my right leg was a bit longer than the other. 2 other doctors said my back
is messed up. The rest of the doctors said "Of course your knee is going to
hurt, you rotate your body when you hit the ball." Anyone know of any good
Doctors in the New York area?
Sandiway Fong
xxyzz <xx...@idt.net> writes:
I have seen about 6 "sports medicine" doctors across the country
and my right knee is still giving me fits. One doctor said my
right leg was a bit longer than the other. 2 other doctors said my
back is messed up. The rest of the doctors said "Of course your
knee is going to hurt, you rotate your body when you hit the ball."
Anyone know of any good Doctors in the New York area?
You might want to see a really good chiropractor and have x-rays
taken of your spine. I used to have a annoying (functional) leg
length discrepancy that people used to comment on when I got
(precision) fitted for cycling. Turns out the leg length
discrepancy was only apparent, my spine was out of kilter - which
asymmetrically pulled my pelvis - creating the appearance of unequal
leg length. After a number of months, this not only cleared up that
problem, but also other residual problems due to the unequal stress
in my right leg that I'd been ignoring for a few years.
Of course, you might have trained through pain and permanently
busted up your knee, but you're still young anyway, so it might
be worth checking out...
My two cents,
Sandiway
.
--
Dr. Sandiway Fong NEC Research Institute Inc.
(609) 951-2733 4 Independence Way, Princeton NJ 08540
(609) 951-2482 (FAX) sand...@research.nj.nec.com
http://www.neci.nj.nec.com/homepages/sandiway/
xxyzz
Sandiway Fong wrote:
> You might want to see a really good chiropractor and have x-rays
> taken of your spine. I used to have a annoying (functional) leg
> length discrepancy that people used to comment on when I got
> (precision) fitted for cycling. Turns out the leg length
> discrepancy was only apparent, my spine was out of kilter - which
> asymmetrically pulled my pelvis - creating the appearance of unequal
> leg length. After a number of months, this not only cleared up that
> problem, but also other residual problems due to the unequal stress
> in my right leg that I'd been ignoring for a few years.
>
Thanx for the advice Dr. Fong :)
Michael Moy
Mikhail Sushchik wrote:
>
> Pablo Teodoro wrote:
>
> > What are the symptoms? I have had some knee pain and a sensation of
> > looseness under the kneecap.
> >
> > Michael Moy wrote:
> >
> > > Is Chondromalacia common among table tennis players? This injury
> > > is also known as runner's knee and tennis knee.
> >
>
> Ask *me* about knee injuries in table tennis. I have torn ACL and one other
> ligament after one clumsy jump.
> ACL, of course, did not heal and I did not have the surgery, so I have to
> ware a brace when I play.
We have two people at work that just went through the surgery. One tore
it skiing and the other playing hockey. I would not like to go what they
had to go through.
I did have a doctor check out my problem (both knees) and he said that
the
ligaments seemed fine. My problem has been quite gradual with a lot of
running
and table tennis. Originally I thought that it was the running but the
problem persisted after I stopped. I have cut way back on table tennis
too
and have worn a brace for a few days which has helped quite a bit.
> What I recently found out is that there may be many people out there who have
> torn ACL but never found out about it. ACL tears with a pop (which I did not
> hear) and this usually causes the knee to collapse. However after this
> happens, about 1/3 of all people are able to resume their normal activities.
> For many of them the only way to find out that they have this condition is to
> go to an orthopedic specialist and do the test with the device called
> something like KT-9000. The subjective tests that the doctor might want to
> limit his examination to sometimes fail to detect the torn ACL. If you do not
> belong to this fortunate 1/3, you will feel some instability and looseness in
> the knee joint. If you have the ACL deficiency and continue abusing your
> knee without any protection, you may cause further deterioration of the
> meniscus and, perhaps, arthritis.
>
> If you have knee or lower back problems, try softer shoes (volleyball shoes
> rather than TT shoes) and try not to put your weight on the heels. I
> recently had some lower back problems and was amazed by how much difference
> moving on the tips (?) of your feet makes.
I change shoes every five to six months for running and other activities
and do a lot of situps and weight training for the back. The only times
that I've had back problems was in carrying home a set of weights and
when
trying to scratch an itch while leg-pressing about 180 pounds on a
machine.
Wye Shimamura
I appreciate your advice. I only thought that particular brand was
something ingenious worth trying out.
(My mailer seems to be having some trouble and if you have already read
this message, kindly discard this.)
Sincerely,
Wye Shimamura
△I guess you do not have to go to the brand name Tru-fit. There are many
△similar accessories made in different countries and I am sure that there
△are
△very good Japanese made ones.
△
△The most important is to understand what the differens braces and pads do
△and
△which models does what. I figured out that the fastest, most reliable and
△cheapest way to choose the right one is by consulting a sports-medicine
△specialist who can analyse exactly what is your need. The moment you
△understand exactly what kind of support is needed you have a variaty of
△names
△to choose from, like we have over here.
△
△There is no doubt about the fact that strengthening the supporting muscles
△
Kenny J Owens
Knee Pain sufferers,
18 years ago we made a major medical discovery and have developed a
treatment for knee (and all joints) pain. The problem is tight muscles,
mainly in the quads. It pulls the kneecap down to rub on the retinaculum
beneath the kneecap. This causes cartilage wear and ligaments to tear and
pain and swelling. By pressing the muscles in a systematic way the muscles
stretch beneath the pressure. This stretching lengthens the muscle and
increases clearance, relieving the symptoms.
We have a large clinic in Houston which exclusively treats pain with this
Delos Treatment (see our www.delosnmt.com - unfinished web), and hope some
of you might come to our clinic at the US Open. We can show you how it all
works and you can in most cases treat yourself. The alternative is an
eventual knee replacement, which still will not loosen the muscles causing
the problem.
I have had the good fortune to work with Evander Holyfield, Carl Lewis,
Warren Moon, Hakeem Olijawon, Fred Couples and many thousands more and also
named the US Therapist for the US TT Team to Manchester in 1997. I always
give free treatments at TT Tournies and free advice. This info is very rare
and not even in any medical university. It is the most successful system to
treat pain in the world.
Kenny Owens
Michael Moy <m_...@juno.com> wrote in article <350685...@juno.com>...
shay_t...@magic-sw.com
This is very common that different doctors have different opinions, and
sometimes even if they agree on the reason for the problem their decision
about the treatment is absolutely different. This is true to all fields of
medicine.
But even much more than that, you have to realize that general orthopedic
surgeons and sports-medicine specialists have a completely different attitude
regarding the treatment needed for people that suffer either from traumatic
or from accumulative sport injuries. While orthopedic surgeons usually "rush"
to operate on you in extreme cases or trying to give you other kinds of
therapy in order to cure your body or improve your quality of life, and they
will sometimes advise you to stop doing the sport that causes you the
problems, the sports-medicine oriented doctor try to recover you as fast as
posible and to extend your sport career as much as possible and they consider
the fact that the problem is usually caused by sport and that you want to
continue doing it despite of the potential further damage that can be caused.
Of course they are usually clever enough to advise you to stop doing it in
sone extreme cases...
We are very fortunate over here to have the very best sports-medicine doctors
thus 95% of the problems are being take care locally. But still, the highest
level professional sport people usually go to Belgium to see a world known
Knee specialist Prof. Martenes.
By the way: Look into the american site: http://www.sprts-medicine.com
Best regards
Shay Tochner
In article <350C16AF...@idt.net>,
xx...@idt.net wrote:
>
>
> shay_t...@magic-sw.com wrote:
>
> > The most important is to understand what the differens braces and pads do
and
> > which models does what. I figured out that the fastest, most reliable and
> > cheapest way to choose the right one is by consulting a sports-medicine
> > specialist who can analyse exactly what is your need. The moment you
> > understand exactly what kind of support is needed you have a variaty of
names
> > to choose from, like we have over here.
>
> I guess I need to see your Doctor :) I have seen about 6 "sports medicine"
> doctors across the country and my right knee is still giving me fits. One
doctor
> said my right leg was a bit longer than the other. 2 other doctors said my
back
> is messed up. The rest of the doctors said "Of course your knee is going
to
> hurt, you rotate your body when you hit the ball." Anyone know of any good
> Doctors in the New York area?
>
>
Arno Stienen
Shay wrote:
> We are very fortunate over here to have the very best sports-medicine doctors
> thus 95% of the problems are being take care locally. But still, the highest
> level professional sport people usually go to Belgium to see a world known
> Knee specialist Prof. Martenes.
If I am correct his name is Martens. He's known here in Holland for his treatment
of many well known soccer players, including '92 ('91, '93, ?) world's best
soccer player, Dutchman Marco van Basten.
Maybe Yves can clearify even further...
Arno.
yve...@softcell.be
Indeed Arno,
Dr Martens was very known for his treatment of soccer players' and
cyclists' knee and ankle injuries. I guess he has almost retired (or
medical evolution has passed him).
He was Marco Van Basten's last hope a few years ago. Van Basten said
that "if Dr Martens can't fix me up, nobody 'll ever fix me up". He
never played soccer again.
Yves.
Steve Gibson
Here's the message:
Steve Gibson
On 16 Mar 1998 05:05:09 GMT, "Kenny J Owens" <kenny...@delos.net>
wrote:
to reply, remove nospam from address
kkchou...@gmail.com
marlonwi...@gmail.com
> Is Chondromalacia common among table tennis players? This injury
> is also known as runner's knee and tennis knee.