mark V
Milt
watersl...@erols.com
>
> Which newer rubber is closest to mark V?
The Spintech Spin Power rubber uses the same sponge as Mark V, or
something very close to it. The top sheet of Spin Power is more elastic
than Mark V. The harder sponge Spin Power "regular" would be a good
substitute for regular Mark V, if not an improvement. The soft SV would
be more like Mark V GPS, or even softer. It's a bit more expensive, but
it lasts well. I used to use Mark V and GPS rubbers until I found the
Spin Power stuff.
Julian
BICENBKS
to find a dealer for MarkV?
marco
always support the local guy. Second of all, spintech is better than mark
V. Mark V has weird "throw angles" that spintech doesn't have. Also,
spintech rubber has all the gears, unlike innova and some other specialty
rubbers. For example, I tried innova max for the first time and I was
amazed at this "gear problem." If I didn't try it myself I wouldn't have
believe it. Innova max has slow and fast gears, nothing inbetween. So what
happens when you try to loop medium speed is that you make a crappy shot.
Then I tried some of this Thibar Maks with the ultra thin top sheet. At
first it felt great, until I realized that you can't hit hard against a slow
ball. Someone does a slow loop that I can normally attack and all of a
sudden I'm missing. Why? that was weird. Innova normal has no short game
to it. Not that mine is so great but it's even more impossible with innova.
So what are the good rubbers? Spintech Spinpower hard version is good
stuff. Blackjack is o.k. but too "spongy" for my tastes. I like the juic
999 elite and the spinspiel. Spinspiel is for lower rated play. Need more
power use 999. I like Sriver rubbers. All the rubbers that I have
mentioned in this paragraph are without "tricks" or "gimmicks." They have
all the gears. That means the rubber will act the way you think it should
whether you are doing the softest of short dead serves, pushing agressively
in a serve return, opening up softly, opening up harder, loopdriving as hard
as possible (ripping) or going for your flat kill at warp speed. All the
gears.
marco
"BICENBKS" <bice...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020101233628...@mb-ft.aol.com...
Ky H. Nguyen
I've been looking for a similar rubber to replace my GPS 2.0 on the
forehand side with some thing just as fast and a bit more spinny and
durable. According to you and some other people, Spin Power Soft 2.1
looks like the right choice. Could you tell me about the weight in
comparision to the GPS 2.0 ?
Thanks,
Ky,
PS: I should have borrowed your racket for a moment when Gerry
introduced us.
marco
thought I had you this time, I took the first 2 games but you came back to
win in the fifth with excellant blocking and looping. Next time I'm going
to have to remember not to let up on you. Haha, but good job anyway.
If you get a sheet of Soft version, make sure you also get a sheet of normal
version (or "hard version" as they label it) because I think the soft is
really too soft. I think you will love the spintech hard version, because
the sponge is very good and the top sheet is excellant. The top sheet is
grippy and very elastic. It will be good for you. The hard version, I
mean.
marco
"Ky H. Nguyen" <Ky.N...@West.Boeing.Com> wrote in message
news:3C332DF4...@West.Boeing.Com...
watersl...@erols.com
Yes, SP SV would be a good choice, but it feels even softer than GPS. It
reglues well, really corks up with a loud sound on some blades. Like GPS
it is very light in weight. Probably lighter than GPS. Try some at the
http://www.spintechnologies.com/ website. I'm sure you will like it.
Julian
Sreg W.
elite on the BTY Kong, which is made to be medium hardness. Innova UL on
the Kong just don't feel right.
"marco" <cacc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:qpwY7.97184$Wd.30...@news1.rdc1.az.home.com...
marco
think it's too fast. Actually I like the 35 side. The 45 side feels too
hard. Supposedly they hit the wood with ultraviolet radiation or something,
plus they put a coating of varnish on it. I can tell you that I've already
sanded off the varnish but still the 45 side feels too stiff. Well, I'm
speaking VERY subtelly here. It's slightly too stiff. So I use it on the
backhand side anyway, where stiffness is o.k. for blocking and pushing. But
on my forehand I like to open up softly and returning serve etc. so I must
use the 45 side.
I've said that I would love to try a blade that is like the 35 side on both
sides. I tried out the Stiga All Around Classic and the All Around Classic
WRB. I found the differences between them to be very subtle. Of all the
blades, probably All Around Classic WRB is the best one. Don Iguana labs
just did a comparison of these.
I also wish my hypertech was slightly lighter. I just weighed it on a
kitchen scale and it is 75 grams. Of course the kitchen scale is not very
precise. Maybe I feel it is too heavy because of the 999?
I tried the BTF VSG4000 and I was very impressed. When blocking strong
shots the handle really does absorb some shock. I didn't feel I lost any
touch, however, because I believe that the touch is between your thumb,
forefinger, and middle finger; not in your palm. The VSG rubber shock
absorbing ring is located where your palm grips the ball, so you still feel
the ball at low speed with the 3 aforementioned fingers. But I don't have
very good touch so maybe I'm wrong. I absolutely love the weight of the
VSG4000. It felt much lighter than my hypertech. I wonder how much it
weighs. The speed of it was very similar to my hypertech, however, if not
even slightly faster. Alas, I'm looking for slightly slower.
Lastly, you mentioned that innova didn't feel right on the Kong blade.
Innova and their similar types often feel best on a "springy" type of blade,
a blade that flexes. Rubbers that have stickier topsheets such as 999 tend
to do better on stiffer blades. This is why the Fan Yi Yong blade and 999
go well together. The fan blade is generally very stiff. Stiga blades,
especially the all wood ones, tend to be flexy. I'm not familiar with very
many butterfly blades, just the VSG4000 and the Biside and the Viscaria.
marco
"Sreg W." <ENEFSI...@spammotel.com> wrote in message
news:FRGY7.2390$3z4.9423@rwcrnsc52...
Ky H. Nguyen
As long as it's not heavier than the GPS, I think I'll like it. I'll
try to get some from spintech.
Ky,
Ky H. Nguyen
It's must be God's will that you've never beaten me 8-)). For some
reason when you're playing well, I always manage to play better; and
when I play poorly, you always manage to do worse 8-)). Anyhow, thanks
for the advice but I think I'll try out the 2.1 soft version first.
Ky,
Mark E. Wallace
>
> very good touch so maybe I'm wrong. I absolutely love the weight of the
> VSG4000. It felt much lighter than my hypertech. I wonder how much it
> weighs. The speed of it was very similar to my hypertech, however, if not
> even slightly faster. Alas, I'm looking for slightly slower.
>
The Butterfly World site lists the VSG4K at ~80g.
Mark
marco
you can try them before you decide. Because if you order the soft and you
don't like it, you'll have to wait a long time (at least a week usually)
before you get the harder. I saw the rubber you play with and I know your
style. The soft will be way too soft for you. I think you'll find the hard
version to be just right. Michael really needs to change the name of that
rubber from "hard version" to "normal version". Anyway, at least ask mike
for a trial sheet so you can try both rubbers side by side.
marco
"Ky H. Nguyen" <Ky.N...@West.Boeing.Com> wrote in message
news:3C334684...@West.Boeing.Com...
marco
2.0antispin rubber is very light? Because that is what was on the back of
the blade I tried. I glued my own sheet of 999 onto the forehand side. Or
does the WRB make a blade feel so topheavy that it gives the impression of
being heavy?
marco
"Mark E. Wallace" <Ma...@none.of.your.business> wrote in message
news:a0vl7l$72i$1...@galaxy.us.dell.com...
Waqidi
a while back. I would say that the max version does not have all the gears.
It certainly has the top end gears and has perhaps more gears than Innova (I
havn't played with it so I am basing this opinion only on reports from those
who I trust). The biggest problem I had with it was in counterlooping. I
could initiate a powerful opening loop but had trouble controlling the shot
if someone else opened up first. Of course I only tried one sheet and this
was a max sheet. If I tried a 2.1 or 2.0 mm sheet this may have better
suited my game. Also I could not get it to consistently glue up. Sometimes
it was a screamer in power and then it slowed down. This kind of surprised
me as I thought I was being very careful in the gluing process. I thought
that the rubber was a great attacking rubber but it lacked some control. I
used the rubber for about a month and found it went somewhat dead after
approximately 7 speed gluings. It also did not stay as shiny as other
rubbers on the market. (The aesthetic issue concerned me as it haunted the
ASTI rubber products and expected it too last longer. I felt that the black
color on the Spintech was not black enough for my taste.) Of course this is
not a fair test as I only tried one sheet. I know that Spintech and Michael
L. are known for only selling top quality gear and I am pleased that their
equipment has a big following in the US. However, based on the initial test
of Spinpower, I would stick with the ASTI rubber approach (the old and new
one) which in my opinion has more gears and better control than the
Spinpower approach. Of course I realize that my opinion will be viewed by
many in the group as being somewhat biased. However, I should point out
that most people on this newsgoup have a bias towards certain equipment for
a variety of reasons, even those who are connected with the "Lab" under the
direction of our fearless lizard. I look forward to some constructive
feedback from those on the group to my comments. (Marco don't bother to
tell me that you know more about this subject than anyone else. This
attitude may work in your classroom with school children but is not a
reasonable way to communicate with your peers on this newsgroup. By the way
I was a professor at four universities so I know a little bit about teacher
student interaction. I alway treated my students with respect!)
Waqidi
Dave Williams
Waqidi,
I agree quite comfortably with your impressions about Spinpower. Like Innova,
Spinpower in Max thickness (not width, thank you Victor) has in impressive top
end...but not the kind of full range like a 2.1 Sriver or 2.0 Mark V. It is,
IMO, primarily a function of the very thick, very soft sponge. The medium
sponges, when speed glued still give many flavors to intermediate shots without
needing to cork heavily on contact. The air capsule sponge in Innova (UL
especially) must cork on contact to be lively. It is possible to create
variations spin and speed with Spinpower and Innova, but they are very
sensitive to the angle of impact and the hand speed at contact. The up-side to
this "flat spot" in their response is the option to stroke solidly forward into
incoming attacks and use the reduced throw of the rubber as a control factor in
counter driving and power blocking. After a while, this stall-like place makes
you feel like you have a more control oriented rubber on your blade if you
start to "induce" it reflexively on the right shots.
I think the better hands one has, the less this "persnickity" nature of
Spinpower and Innova would distract. It is no surprise that Julian and Tahl
enjoy Spinpower, because they both generate lots of hand speed and delicate
impacts compared to other players of their repsective levels. Many times our
ability as lizard lads to comment and observe about many rubbers is their
availability to our test crews. Many companies and brands are not able (or
interested) to donate the testing samples. Our exposure to them is limited and
thus we tend to talk about them less. In the case of Innova and Spinpower,
they are rubbers that we are using as our daily drivers and tend to offer
reactions that go a little deeper than a rubber we tested for only a few
sessions.
Lefty
John Schneider
cacc...@aol.com says...
> I'm using the Stiga Hypertech CR 45/35. It's an Off- blade, but I still
> think it's too fast. Actually I like the 35 side. The 45 side feels too
> hard. Supposedly they hit the wood with ultraviolet radiation or something,
> plus they put a coating of varnish on it. I can tell you that I've already
> sanded off the varnish but still the 45 side feels too stiff. Well, I'm
> speaking VERY subtelly here. It's slightly too stiff. So I use it on the
> backhand side anyway, where stiffness is o.k. for blocking and pushing. But
> on my forehand I like to open up softly and returning serve etc. so I must
> use the 45 side.
>
> I've said that I would love to try a blade that is like the 35 side on both
> sides. I tried out the Stiga All Around Classic and the All Around Classic
> WRB. I found the differences between them to be very subtle. Of all the
> blades, probably All Around Classic WRB is the best one. Don Iguana labs
> just did a comparison of these.
What about the Allround CR? I thought it had the 35 degree hardness on
both sides.
Mark E. Wallace
as I was on my 79g SpinTech Spin Touch. This combo does indeed feel a tad
bit heavier than the actual 1g difference. I suspect, as you've suggested,
that it feels different due to the WRB-ish head. The Spin Touch has their
"patented Speed Core Energy Absorbing handle" technology. What that really
is and how it compares to the construction & weight of the BTY VSG handle is
beyond me. Perhaps Lefty knows more about the handle construction on these
two blades.
Mark.
"marco" <cacc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3OIY7.97349$Wd.30...@news1.rdc1.az.home.com...
Dave Williams
"Mark E. Wallace" wrote:
> I'm using Mark V 2.0 on my FH and Innova UL 2.0 on my BH with my VSG4K, just
> as I was on my 79g SpinTech Spin Touch. This combo does indeed feel a tad
> bit heavier than the actual 1g difference. I suspect, as you've suggested,
> that it feels different due to the WRB-ish head. The Spin Touch has their
> "patented Speed Core Energy Absorbing handle" technology. What that really
> is and how it compares to the construction & weight of the BTY VSG handle is
> beyond me. Perhaps Lefty knows more about the handle construction on these
> two blades.
>
> Mark.
>
Intimately. Both technologies were developed by Sunflex. Speed Cores are like
WRB's but the cut out as is filled with liquid styrofoam (like the insulation
stuff that comes in aerosol cans for home use. The result is a dampened WRB
and decreased secondary vibrations.
The VSG handle goes on step further in energy transfer. The handle base is
sawed off the blank. An anchor hole is drilled in the blade ready to receive a
rubber grommet and a carbon tube. The milled out handle is assembled around
two similar holes that also enclose identical rubber grommets. The blade is
reassembled with the carbon tube anchoring the blade and handle together
through the three grommets. No wood to wood. The twisting component between
blade and handle is secured by strongly glued sponge rubber washer. This is
the ultimate insulation between blade and handle to date. We ended up
(unintentionally in some cases) disassembling three Project X prototypes and
were very impressed with the cleverness of it all. The blades are fast and
soft, different from anything else out there. The best ones in our early
testing were the thinnest, most delicate ones. As soon as MK forwards our
testers we'll compare the production models.
Lefty
marco
like you are talking about asti rubber. But I wouldn't know from direct
experience, only from what I've heard from about 9 people all rated over
2000. But of course they are talking about your "old" batch of rubber so we
are all waiting to see what happens with your new batch.
I've never tried max version but I doubt it is so different than the others,
though of course the thicker the sponge the harder it is to control. However
spintech certainly does have all the gears, and ESPECIALLY is very good for
looping and counterlooping. It is ridiculous for you to say that spintech
doesn't counterloop well. What the hell is Musa doing with it? Chopping?
Spintech has always glued up just fine, though I never glued it using asti
glue or booster. I have glued it with spintech glue, and stiga energy. No
problems there, not on the 7th or the 40th gluing. I never noticed the top
sheet to go dead, in fact I thought it lasts pretty well. Like I said
before, the only reason I stopped using it is because I changed my game and
my style. I became more of a control player, spin oriented, and so I went
to a very sticky topsheet rubber (999). If I was 50 pounds lighter and 10
years younger and I wanted to play a more youthfull type of game like musa
etc. then I would be using spintech right now. Oh and by the way professor
its spinpower not powerspin.
marco
"Waqidi" <fali...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:a0vmt6$ov6$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
Waqidi
lives in (and is from) Germany but comes to Sunflex (China) on a regular
basis. He is also (I am told) an excellent player. I also find the quality
control at Sunflex blades on their high-end blades to be excellent. I have
visited their plant and am very impressed with the company. They produce
something like 5 million rackets a year from low to high quality!
Waqidi
"Dave Williams" <da...@mcclarranwilliams.com> wrote in message
news:3C337D62...@mcclarranwilliams.com...
marco
the hypertech. I haven't tried the all around cr. I was very surprised
actually to feel what a subtle difference there is between the hypertech and
the all around classic and the all around classic wrb. I wonder if my eyes
were blindfolded would I be able to tell. The wrb part makes a bigger
difference than the surface part. And I can say that I held many factors
under control in this "experiment" because I glued my own rubber onto all of
the blades and tested them all within a few hours of each other. So it was
my rubber in the same venue on the same day with 3 different blades. Still
it was hard for me to tell the differences. I mean, I could tell, but the
differences were so subtle.
I was looking for big differences. I was looking for more control, more
ball "feel." Possibly vegas concrete was not the best testing site, because
I had trouble feeling the ball over there. Maybe if I brought all 3 blades
back to phoenix I could do a better job with the test. In vegas, my slow
loops off of no spin flew right off the table. I had to change my whole
game. I'm not used to these "chalkboard" butterfly tables. I'm used to
stiga expert. Totally different bounce. Spin reacts totally differently on
those butterfly tables. I'd serve my 1800 level david zuang side-corkscrew
spin kicker and get more kick than david gets on a stiga table. It was
ridiculous.
I was also looking for something significantly lighter, hoping for a 10 gram
difference. But didn't find it. All of these blades seem to be around 75
grams. The WRB's are slightly ligher than the non-wrb's.
Oh well, guess I'll stay with my blades and work on improving my skills,
losing yet more weight, etc. etc. etc.
marco
"John Schneider" <js2100[NOSPAM]@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.169d172c...@news.la.sbcglobal.net...
marco
about off-. If they would make an all+ blade I'd be all over that.
marco
"Dave Williams" <da...@mcclarranwilliams.com> wrote in message
news:3C337D62...@mcclarranwilliams.com...
>
>
Ky H. Nguyen
If you (or Julian) or anyone has used the Spinpower, can you explain in
details the characterstics of the top sheets? I am not too concerned
with the sponge. Any sponge that is reasonably light, soft, and elastic
is good enough for me. I've tried the Innova Ultra Lite before and
really hate it on the very first try. Its top sheet, like most
"synthetic" rubbers, does seem to grab the ball that well despite its
grippy feel. For me, a player of 1800-1900 level, I prefer GPS and the
likes (which offer a feel of "natural" rubber) because I can easily spin
the ball at low and intermediate speed.
Thanks,
Ky,
marco
elastic. I'd say from memory that it is equally "grippy" though I haven't
seen a sheet of gps in some years. I know you will like it.
Also, please don't publicly announce that you don't care about what type of
sponge you use; and that you beat me; in the same newsgroup. That shows
people what type of competitor I just got beat by.
marco
"Ky H. Nguyen" <Ky.N...@West.Boeing.Com> wrote in message
news:3C3385FF...@West.Boeing.Com...
marco
This is how I immediately knew you must be using either lighter fluid, some
illegal glue, or your new booster. I have heard that your booster destroys
sponge integrity. You have just proved it.
Next time you have some time, play with 2 sheets of any soft sponge rubber
(hard sponge is more resistant to chemicals). Glue one of them with stiga
energy glue, no lighter fluid. Glue the other with your asti glue and
booster. After 7 nights of playing check out the difference. Please report
to the newsgroup what you discovered.
And to keep your rubber topsheet looking new, clean it before you store it
and store it with clear plastic pressed tightly to get all the air bubbles
out. Oh yeah, remove the sponge from the blade each night, so you don't have
to pull and tear so hard the next day. And be carefull what cleaner you
use, make sure it is very mild. I like the mark V cleaner, seems to work
well much better than the buterfly cleaner (bioclean?) which smelled like
alcohol and stripped my topsheets. Also I don't like foams, they are too
greasy.
Finally, if you hit 2500 level or above and train multiball 6 hours a day,
there is no rubber in the world that is going to feel as good as new after 7
days of playing. But since we are about the same level, then you should be
getting approximately 25 days of use out of your rubber like I am.
marco
> "Waqidi" <fali...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:a0vmt6$ov6$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
marco
Damn I can't go back and edit like I can in other groups.
marco
"marco" <cacc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:X_LY7.97391$Wd.30...@news1.rdc1.az.home.com...
Waqidi
Thanks for correcting my spelling error. Being a "former" professor does
not guarantee my posts will be free of grammar and spelling errors.
I make my comments based on my experience which in this regard is somewhat
different than most of the participants in this group, as I designed and
manufacturered table tennis rubber. Further, I had the priviledge of having
the wisdom of many players and coaches in testing of a wide range of table
tennis rubber, blades, tables, etc. I don't assume to have all the answers
but have a reasonable background in the how table tennis equipment performs.
For example, some of the very language you (and others) are using in
newsgroup such as gears, throw angle, stall angle, etc. I was the first to
use in the industry. This nomenclature was developed by myself and C.W.
Smith at ASTI. If it was coined before us I don't know. However, I just
thought you should be aware of this fact.
With regard to your comment about the ASTI rubber, you (you have never even
tried a sheet) and whoever else you are speaking to, are way off the mark
with regard to the characterisitics of the original ASTI rubber. (Comments
such as those from Tahl are clearly based on some facetious or even
malicious comments. Such as "it plays like antispin " when players such
Fan Yi-Yong, Sean O'Neill and Jimmy Butler and numerous others where able to
compete with it at their usual level and with their ususal style.) The main
strength of the ASTI rubber was an increased dynamic range of gears,
especially at the low end. Some players found the top end gears of ASTI as
hard to tap, others found the top end of the rubber to equal to the fastest
rubbers on the market at the time. (For example Wack Sport of France, a
very large and respected dealer in Europe rated the ASTI Attack Plus as
faster than Mark V.) Almost everyone agreed that the ASTI rubber was easy to
control and was especially good for counterlooping, blocking and serve
return. The grip of the rubber was in between Japanese and Chinese rubber.
For example, a fresh sheet of the Attack version could pick a ball upside
down for 5 to 10 seconds. This is hardly the way anti-spin rubber behaves.
(I await the usual ranting from Beavis and Butthead who is bitter at the
principals at ASTI because he claims we indirectly or in his view directly
were responsible for the loss of a table tennis related job. To him I say I
hope you are happier in the New Year.)
I prefaced my remarks about the Spinpower with the fact that I only tested
one sheet and that it was the max version. It went dead and discolored more
quickly than I expected. Perhaps the ASTI glue is not compatible with this
rubber and prematurely aged it. Perhaps it was a bad sheet not typical of
what is availble. All I can do is report what I found and the conditions
under how I tested it. I was no longer an owner of ASTI and had no pressure
on me at the time. In fact at the time ASTI was essentially non existent
and for all I knew at the time the ASTI rubber was never going to be
produced ever again. It was an honest and unbiased appraisal. Period! I
made a statement about it at the time of testing and I mostly said positive
things as I thing this is the best way to help Spintech which I believe
deserves support. I made some incredibly big shots with the rubber. But my
control was lacking. The rubber did not play consistently. I had one 2000
player try it on several occasions, Ron Spencer. He independently commented
to me that the rubber was not as fast the second time as the first time he
tried it. The first time he tried it was the second time I glued it up.
The second time he tried it was the fourth or fifth time I glued it up. I
was very careful how I did my tests using a consistent amount of
glue/Booster.
I did not say that the rubber did not counterloop well. I said that I had
trouble controlling the ball when counterlooping. As an 1800 level player
with some higher level skills at counter looping all I can say is I had
trouble with it. It may be great for other players with better or different
skills than my own. My guess is that I would like the 2.1 mm much better
for this type of stroke.
Are you seriously claiming that you speed glue the Spintech rubber 40 times
without a loss any loss of performance? This is a highly unlikely
statement based on the physics of rubber and sponge.
By the way what subject or subjects do you teach at school?
Waqidi
Waqidi
Our "new " Booster has been out for around over 7 years and has been used on
hundreds of brands of rubber. Sometimes there has been a compatibility
problem but this was not a common problem.
I never use lighter fluid.
I just checked my records and I used the Spintech glue given to me by
Spintech for the my tests. So much for your theory. I also played with the
rubber on the Spintech Musa blade and the Spintech Kontrol blade the entire
time I did the tests. Both these blades are made in Germany. (by a company
who ASTI used to make rubber for.)
In cleaned the rubber every time I used sometimes more than once a session.
Certainly at the end of the session. I covered the sheets with plastic when
they were stored away.
Waqidi
Waqidi
Marco,
I wrote a 15 page booklet on how to glue and take care of tt rubber. Tips
(included in the ASTI booklet) such as removing your speed glued rubber
immediately after playing with it was common knowledge to me as late as 1993
when we designed and produced the first American (and still only) made table
tennis rubber. (The first players to tell me tip his was Mas Hashimoto and
C. W. Smith.) This was the same year that ESN's first German produced rubber
came out under the name of Donic Desto.
Waqidi
Waqidi
Most players at the level we are at should notice a degradation of the
performance of the rubber after 40 hours of use, at which time most players
replace the sheets with new ones. (Some of the new long lasting rubbber
sheets can go longer than this.) I and almost else can tell a change in
performance after a couple of hours of use. (grip on the rubber is the most
usual change and the rubber stretches a bit.) As we all know the rubber does
improve after a few speed gluings. The first time out there is a noticeable
lack of spin and sometimes speed. After the rubber stretches and breaks in
a bit it really improves. By the third speed gluing the maximum perfromance
is achieved. After 10 regluings every rubber I have tried, except a few,
starts to drop in performance. So if you play 3 hours a session you get
really good performance for 30 hours of play and somewhat reduced perfomance
for 10 hours of play. You can go longer but with more reduction. It is not
always the top sheet being the limiting factor but the sponge which a
combination of polyisoprene and a filler called calcium carbonate. Do you
know what compression set is? I hope you teach science so that we can
converse in more depth on this subject.
Waqidi
"marco" <cacc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:L6MY7.97396$Wd.30...@news1.rdc1.az.home.com...
Ky H. Nguyen
If the two tope sheets are fairly similar, I'll give power spin a try.
Ky,
Waqidi Falicoff
drive a certain type of rubber. A head heavy blade that weighs 75 grams
that is a medium head size, will feel quite head heavy with a couple of
sheets of rubber on it such as 999 or even lighter rubber. In my experience
(for me) any blade weighing below 80 grams that is head heavy will have a
balance problem with a wide range of rubbers. My best blades have weighed
between 80 to 84 grams. I try to have the handle (on its own) weigh a
minimum of 25 grams, optimum is 27 to 28 grams. Also the location of the
handle relative to the head will make a big difference. Some manufacturers
locate the blade low relative to the racket head and this further
exacerbates the problem. I test the balance of the blade with and without
the rubber by putting the racket on a round dowel and finding the balance
point. After you do this a number of times you get a feel for what works
for you. I have played with rackets that are 89 grams that feel "lighter"
with rubber than blades that weigh 79 grams. Clearly racket head size and
shape also makes a big difference. Also there is a minimum weight for
certain rubber below which some rubber will not perform well. For example,
the ASTI Euroflex needed to be above 85 grams to work well with the ASTI
rubber.
When you speak of Fan's blade are you referring to what he actually plays
with or the blades made and sold by Juic which carry his name. As with most
top players they don't usually play with the blade that has their name on it
in the catalog. The blade that Fan actually plays with is not stiff and is
locally quite soft. He does play with one side being 999. I think the
blade he plays with is 85 grams, give or take one gram. This weight blade
can drive 999. Players like Sean O'Neill play with even heavier blades
Sean liked a weight of 90 to 92 grams. Christian Lillieroos used to like
light blades around 75 grams. However, he currently plays with a custom
Polaris blade that is probably around 85 grams for the 40 mm ball. This
works better for the bigger ball.
I know that quite a few manufacturers are making very light blades (under 80
grams) with a hollowed out handle. Personally I don't like this approach.
That is just my personal opinion.
Waqidi
Waqidi
Dave Williams
Waqidi wrote:
> I have met the designer of these blades and he is very knowledgeable. He
> lives in (and is from) Germany but comes to Sunflex (China) on a regular
> basis. He is also (I am told) an excellent player. I also find the quality
> control at Sunflex blades on their high-end blades to be excellent. I have
> visited their plant and am very impressed with the company. They produce
> something like 5 million rackets a year from low to high quality!
>
They are an impressive company. They do development and sales in Germany but
manufacture in Asian and it would seem that they have provided excellent
technology and inventory to Butterfly (Speed Core blades, VSGs and probably
many others sold at Martin Kilpatrick), Andro (early VSG Project X prototypes
were likely milled and reassembled blades cobbled from that brand's sweet red
stain center wood Speed Core line, Stiga (rec lines maybe) and Spintech in the
U.S. They made (and maybe still make) a very large percentage of the early 40
mm balls and we've tested some rubber sheets they made, although we don't know
if they made it to production, or under whose name. The rubber was very, very
sticky and not real fast. Sheets were mounted on myriad of sponges, from dark
orange to cream. I believe one sheet made it to Ashu at Ann Arbor through Alex
Chien and his reptilian entourage.
Talking with folks to who do business with them, Sunflex sounds very
professional....building and testing samples that are remarketed by major
brands, ....licensing them technology and then selling well made batches made
to the customer's specifications. SPO is a trusted hand and tests both rubber
and blades for them at times.
The Sunflex house brand is a good value, IMO. I worked with a few customers at
the Teams from the TT Pioneers booth and when you start comparing the handful
of Sunflex models on the rack with similar quality in the major brands, the
Sunflex stuff seems a bargain. Most of the house models seem to be kinda
compact headed and lightweight. Their triple carbon is a real sleeper, lots of
pop for modest bucks. They make a few other cool hobby products, maybe darts.
Lefty who carries the lizard's water
watersl...@erols.com
and people mistakenly assumed that meant the rubber was dead, which it
certainly was not. I hope the next incarnation of Asti rubbers will not
have this problem and I wish them luck with the endeavor. Waqidi is a
reasonable and knowledgable person, but obviously biased toward his
products. I would hope he would not pass judgement on a competitor
rubber based on trying one sheet of Max with (??) kind of glue. I think
if he tried the 2.1 Spintech Spin Power, it might fit his game better
than the Max.
I don't particularly like Max in any rubber because there's not enough
feel. On the other hand, both Spintech's Michael Lalvani and our
intrepid Lefty both DO like Max. It also depends on what blade you use,
whether and how you glue and play the game.
I switched from Mark V GPS to the Spin Power rubbers almost two years
ago and I have not found anything I like any better. This has been with
the 2.1, which I find DOES give me "all the gears" on the right blades.
This really means that the rubber is predictable to the point where it
will do what you are trying to make it do, naturally, at least within
the limitations of your technique and level. With some other rubbers, I
find some of the gears missing. I found this especially so with Innova.
There was a big gap between the light touch gear and hard to control
upper gears. When I looped or blocked, I often found the ball sailing
long. What I didn't find was a comfortable three-quarter mode. That was
me, and that was only from a few tests. Maybe if I had tried it for
longer I would have got used to it. Others certainly like it very much.
I think we have to be careful not to denegrade particular rubbers in
favor of others. It's all a personal feel.
Spintech has several things going for its rubbers. They are custom made
and shipped in small quantities from Japan. Hence, they might be more
expensive than some rubbers such as Mark V, but it also means they are
relatively fresh. They have not been sitting in a warehouse for months.
On the other hand, when you buy a popular rubber, how do you know how
old it is? I have also found the Spintech Spin Power rubber top sheet to
last very well compared with others. I have been using the Spintech
Enduro glue almost exclusively and just recently started to use a little
of the booster. Both are thin and have very little smell. I hope Ky will
report back to the group in a few weeks and tell us how he likes this
rubber compared to what he was using before.
Julian
Waqidi
<watersl...@erols.com> wrote in message news:3C33C1...@erols.com...
Yes the new ASTI rubber lasts and lasts visually. (at least the test sheets
have done very well.) I have one sheet that I have used fairly regularly
since April of 2001 with no sign of discoloring or loss of grip. None. Of
course I have seen such things before only to be frustrated when a product
goes into production. However, I think the new product should be much
better than before in this regard.
I have always have the greatest respect for Michael Lalvani and Spintech and
continue to do so. However, I was a bit disturbed by the wording used to
advertise the new Spintech Booster. I do not consider the ASTI Speed glue
products as having an obnoxious smell. This is of course just a subjective
opinion. I certainly don't think the smell of existing speed glue or
Booster products from ASTI or other companies limit their use to those
players who don't play often. This is the jist of the Spintech ad. I would
argue that the new Spintech glue does have a smell, every solvent other than
water has a discernable smell. The spintech product may even using a
masking smell agent. (For an expert this is easily sensed.) In this
approach even a foul smelling solvent is masked by another smell which fools
the human sensory apparatus. The solvents are still there in the air. It
still ends up to be a subjective issue and really a personal preference.
The important issue is whether the solvents used are safe. We tried in the
ASTI formulae to use only class one solvents. In the case of D-Limonene
this is a class one solvent used in the quantity in the formulae that is
derived from citrus fruit. This solvent is used in many modern household
cleaning formulae and is very safe. I guess if one does not like this
fruity smell than you probably won't like the smell of the Booster. The
amount of D-Limonene is reduced in the ASTI Speed GLue EX and it has a very
minimal smell as solvent systems go. We could have employed a masking agent
to fool the nose but decided against it for safety purposes. The reason is
simple. If you forget to close the lid you will know it is open by the
smell. Secondly if the top is not properly tightened and is leaking you
will be given a warning. This was our thinking.
I think I told this group that Butterfly (1997) attempted to get the ASTI
glue banned by the ITTF on the basis that they didn't like its smell. The
ITTF Equipment Committee just didn't even respond. And rightly so.
With regard to my bias. I heartily agree. However, since you have designed
some of their packaging (I assume for pay), I would suggest that you now
have a bias as well. I can tell you that I am not paid at all for my work
on the new rubber. It is totally academic to me. Even if the rubber is a
great success in the future, I will not likely see a penny from its sale.
My bias is intrinsic in that I worked on something for many years. You no
doubt have a relationship with Spintech at this point. Be honest. Even if
you did the design for free, in some way it is your baby.
I would also agree that it is not really fair to judge a product by using
one sheet. I will hopefully get a chance to try some more Spintech rubber
again in the future. I wish Spintech the very best success in the New Year.
Waqidi
marco
>
"With regard to my bias. I heartily agree. However, since you have
designed
some of their packaging (I assume for pay), I would suggest that you now
have a bias as well".
Oh come on man. So where's my bias Waqidi. I don't work for them, get paid
by them, or even use their products anymore. But I know good stuff when I
try it. That I don't use it doesn't mean it isn't good stuff. I think
Bryce is pretty awesome rubber and I don't use that either. Actually, maybe
I will go back to some spintech 2.0 hard version on my backhand. I'm using
999 elite SV on both sides now, 2.0 both sides. Glued up with stiga energy,
which is a nice medium strength glue.
Since we're analyzing stuff, I think that BTF Fairchack is really good glue,
but just too thick. That's what I use to start new rubbers. Now I heard
they got some Fairchack lite. I'd be real interested to try some, b/c I
like the feel of BTF Fairchack and I think it makes a superior cork yet
still remains undamaging to the sponge and is easy to peel. All things that
are very important to me. I tried the spintech glue and found it impossible
to peel off. Same thing happened with BTF Long Chack when I used to use it.
Good glues, but impossible to peel. And slightly damaging to the sponge.
marco's 12 year rubber history:
Friendship 729 RITC (bth wings) [after less than 1 year rating is 1590],
Sriver FX (bth wings with a carbon blade how stupid eh?), Mark V GPS (bth
wings), Mendo Energy (bth wings), [[[moved to arizona]]], Nittaku Midship SC
(bth wings), Juic 999/Sriver FX, Spintech Spin Power 2.0 (bth wings)[rating
starting to climb out of the 1600's for the first time in years], Spintech
SpinPower/Short Pips [funny, 2 tournaments with the pips and rating didn't
move + or - 10 points], [[[Enter Big Ball]]], Spinspiel Soft Version (bth
wings) [instantly getting consistent with this rubber combination; big ball
helping serve return BIGTIME], Spinspiel Medium Version/Spinspiel Soft
Version, Spinspiel Medium Version/Innova, Juic 999 Elite/China Extreme[went
up 150 points in SanDiego Pro Tour with this combo; kicked ass in San Diego
warmup and Vegas beating 2100 chopper and 4 people over 1950 but lost to my
1600 training partner Felix (ugghhh) ], Juic 999 Elite 2.0 (bth wings).
marco
marco
"Waqidi Falicoff" <fali...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:a10bji$ef9$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
marco
forehand preparation quickly. However, if you have a style that is off the
table it doesn't seem to matter Also I find that heavy blades block and
smash better but don't have as much touch as light blades. If fan is
playing with 85 grams right on the table that is impressive. But he really
is a special case. One shot that seems really hard to do with a heavy blade
is looping or flipping over the table, such as returning short dead balls or
short sidespin balls.
marco
"Waqidi Falicoff" <fali...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:a10bji$ef9$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
marco
slightly. Also I find that it doesn't peel off of soft sponge at all. It
takes many coats to start a new sheet with it.
My method of using BTF Fairchack just 2 coats on the rubber and 1 on the
blade to start new rubber has yet to be beaten. In addition, it peels very
easily when the time comes to peel.
marco
"Waqidi" <fali...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:a104hh$mi2$1...@slb1.atl.mindspring.net...
marco
early 90's. They had the balsa carbon blades, and the "topsheet fluids."
Those topsheet fluids never took off, but the balsa carbon blades weren't
too bad. Very light blades with good touch. I think they made rubber too.
Don't really remember. Does anyone know who was behind that company?
There's a good chance it was a friend of someone in this newsgroup.
marco
"Waqidi" <fali...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:a1057t$85v$1...@slb5.atl.mindspring.net...
marco
dead spot where the sweet spot of my rubber is once a rubber sheet gets
worn. It happens on my forehand a lot faster than on my backhand. I
noticed that looping tends not to do this as much as flat hitting. In a
game I do more looping and pushing than finishing strokes. Consequently, I
have 2 paddles and 2 sets of rubber. My good rubber is my tournament
rubber. It is also used for leagues. Once this gets old it goes to my
spare paddle. I use the spare paddle (exact copy of the tournament paddle)
for multiball and other drills. By the time my good paddle needs new
rubber, the old paddle is completely dead. I then take it off and sell it
for about $5 a sheet to someone, or give it away. New players think its
great. The fact is that really old 999 still has as much grip in the
topsheet as brand new innova. Anyway, by the time I finally sell or give
away a rubber, it probably has close to 70 hours on it if not more. But my
tournament rubber only has probably 20 hours or 25 hours on it before it
goes to my spare paddle. I do much more multiball and training than league
or tournament play.
marco
"Waqidi" <fali...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:a10603$ke2$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
John Schneider
cacc...@aol.com says...
> Who remembers the SITCO (???) line of american products from around the
> early 90's. They had the balsa carbon blades, and the "topsheet fluids."
> Those topsheet fluids never took off, but the balsa carbon blades weren't
> too bad. Very light blades with good touch. I think they made rubber too.
> Don't really remember. Does anyone know who was behind that company?
> There's a good chance it was a friend of someone in this newsgroup.
>
> marco
I believe Waqidi was involved with Sitco and that there's some connection
between Sitco and ASTI. Maybe ASTI bought out Sitco?
Waqidi
>
> "Waqidi" <fali...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:a10t07$2os$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
> >
> "With regard to my bias. I heartily agree. However, since you have
> designed
> some of their packaging (I assume for pay), I would suggest that you now
> have a bias as well".
>
> Oh come on man. So where's my bias Waqidi.
>I don't work for them, get paid
> by them, or even use their products anymore. But I know good stuff when I
> try it. That I don't use it doesn't mean it isn't good stuff. I think
> Bryce is pretty awesome rubber and I don't use that either. Actually,
maybe
> I will go back to some spintech 2.0 hard version on my backhand. I'm
using
> 999 elite SV on both sides now, 2.0 both sides. Glued up with stiga
energy,
> which is a nice medium strength glue.
>
> Since we're analyzing stuff, I think that BTF Fairchack is really good
glue,
> but just too thick. That's what I use to start new rubbers. Now I heard
> they got some Fairchack lite. I'd be real interested to try some, b/c I
> like the feel of BTF Fairchack and I think it makes a superior cork yet
> still remains undamaging to the sponge and is easy to peel.
>All things that
> are very important to me. I tried the spintech glue and found it
impossible
> to peel off. Same thing happened with BTF Long Chack when I used to use
it.
> Good glues, but impossible to peel. And slightly damaging to the sponge.
>
You of course don't need to peel off the solids if you make proper use of a
solvent based speed glue product such as a Booster.
> marco's 12 year rubber history:
> Friendship 729 RITC (bth wings) [after less than 1 year rating is 1590],
> Sriver FX (bth wings with a carbon blade how stupid eh?), Mark V GPS (bth
> wings), Mendo Energy (bth wings), [[[moved to arizona]]], Nittaku Midship
SC
> (bth wings), Juic 999/Sriver FX, Spintech Spin Power 2.0 (bth
wings)[rating
> starting to climb out of the 1600's for the first time in years], Spintech
> SpinPower/Short Pips [funny, 2 tournaments with the pips and rating didn't
> move + or - 10 points], [[[Enter Big Ball]]], Spinspiel Soft Version
(bth
> wings) [instantly getting consistent with this rubber combination; big
ball
> helping serve return BIGTIME], Spinspiel Medium Version/Spinspiel Soft
> Version, Spinspiel Medium Version/Innova, Juic 999 Elite/China
Extreme[went
> up 150 points in SanDiego Pro Tour with this combo; kicked ass in San
Diego
> warmup and Vegas beating 2100 chopper and 4 people over 1950 but lost to
my
> 1600 training partner Felix (ugghhh) ], Juic 999 Elite 2.0 (bth wings).
>
> marco
>
I guess I am supposed to be impressed by all the different kinds of rubber,
blades and glue you have tried.
My comments are these:
1) You have no business commenting about any of the ASTI products past or
present. You apparently have never even tried a single product from ASTI.
Your direct knowledge of the ASTI products is zero.
2) Your experience in experimenting with equipment is not any more than the
average player who has played as long as you have and has some extra cash to
spend.
3) You have no particular qualifications that make your opinion worth any
more than any one elses opinion on this newsgroup. Indeed I would say that
your qualifications are somewhat less significant than many on this group.
(For instance many of the players I used for the evaluation of ASTI products
were rated in the top 100 in the world or were at least National class
level. Some of the coaches I used were former World Champions or coached
World Champions. These I consider to be good qualifications. )
4) I have no way of the determining the quality of your observations with
regard to their objectivity, accuracy and insightfulness. I have much
greater faith in other players and coaches who I know and have had a chance
to see the value of their comments. Perhaps if I met you and spent time
with you I would have more faith in your prognostications. I do know of
some 1800 to 1900 level players who are excellent reviewers. You may have a
gift and perhaps you don't. But just because you tell me how great you are
and how much you know this means nothing to me.
5) You have no way of knowing the skill I have in determining the playing
characteristics of table tennis equipment. Therefore, when you claim that I
am unfairly biased and am not objective, your statement is based on pure
conjecture and in my view wishful thinking.
Marco in short I have designed and manufactured more types of rubber (over
100 versions) , blades (over 200 versions) and speed glue (over 10 versions)
than you apparently have used or perhaps even tried in your entire career.
Quantity is not always an indicator of quality but experience is somewhat of
a teacher. I learned a little something from my years as a table tennis
equipment designer and manufacturer.
I will continue to treat your views and opinions with respect. However, I
don't need any lectures from you on the basic science of table tennis
equipment, and I don't need a lecture on the proper way tt rubber should be
taken care of. If you can at least extend this mimimum courtesies then I am
sure we can continue to be newsgroup friends.
I have heard good things about your game and wish you the best in the New
Year in your attempt to make it to 2200 by the end of the year.
Waqidi
Waqidi
> For me, I find that heavy blades make it hard for me to do my backhand and
> forehand preparation quickly. However, if you have a style that is off
the
> table it doesn't seem to matter Also I find that heavy blades block and
> smash better but don't have as much touch as light blades. If fan is
> playing with 85 grams right on the table that is impressive. But he
really
> is a special case. One shot that seems really hard to do with a heavy
blade
> is looping or flipping over the table, such as returning short dead balls
or
> short sidespin balls.
>
> marco
>
sponsored. Last time I looked (a few weeks ago) he was still playing with
an 85 gram blade. In my experience this weight is quite common for world
class players. I think that you would be very surprised how many world
class players use a blade which is over 80 grams. Personally I can't think
of one top player who uses a blade below this weight. Perhaps other people
on this newsgroup can shed some light on this.
Waqidi
Waqidi
> In article <s3UY7.98663$Wd.31...@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>,
> cacc...@aol.com says...
> > Who remembers the SITCO (???) line of american products from around the
> > early 90's. They had the balsa carbon blades, and the "topsheet
fluids."
> > Those topsheet fluids never took off, but the balsa carbon blades
weren't
> > too bad. Very light blades with good touch. I think they made rubber
too.
> > Don't really remember. Does anyone know who was behind that company?
> > There's a good chance it was a friend of someone in this newsgroup.
> >
> > marco
>
> I believe Waqidi was involved with Sitco and that there's some connection
> between Sitco and ASTI. Maybe ASTI bought out Sitco?
> >
for Sitco were designed and manufactured by C.W. Smith, except for the
Lillieroos model which was jointly designed by CW. and Christian Lillieroos.
The blades were the CarboFlex Tetra, Carboflex Stratos and the Carboflex
Lillieroos. These were 9 ply blades with a single core of carbon one ply of
balsa on either side, and 3 plies on either side of birch. They also sold a
blade called the Omni which was a 3 ply blade. I was the go between for CW
and Sitco. (I designed the packaging and did the technical writeups for the
blades with the help of CW and his son Lowell.) He later came and was one of
the people who started ASTI. (Along with his son Lowell.) He taught me much
of what I know about blade design and manufacturing. The Carboflex line of
blades sold very well in this country and in Scandinavia. They are still
being manufactured by BJ Seda.
I "invented" the top sheet fluids "Tak-it-up" and "Speed-it-up" that was
sold by Sitco prior to it becoming part of ASTI. (I stumbled upon the idea
upon using a specialty solvent used to rejuventate tape recorder rubber
bushings.) Sitco sold a few thousand top sheet fluid kits and we still had
requests for these kits for many years after we stopped producing them. (we
could find any plastic containers that could hold the fluids without some
degradation.)
No Sitco never produced or sold any table tennis rubber. They produced a
good line of table tennis robots. The top of the line beast was the first
computerized table tennis robot (which was partially funded by a research
grant from the USOC science and equipment committee - a project which I was
priveledged to be a co-principal investigator along with Markus Bureker of
Sitco. )
Sitco also produced the Grand Champion Table (which I designed). There
were only a few of these high end tables produced. The only ones sold were
in Concord, Sacremento and Seatlle. There are two now residing at the Newgy
factory in Tennessee. The tops were 1 inch with five coats of a medium
light blue paint. The top was cantilevered using double curved leg supports
so you couldn't hit your knees on the legs. The design was later employed
by the subsidiary ASTI UK and was sold throughout the UK.
I hope this information answers all your questions.
Waqidi
marco
It makes sense otherwise their wrists would hurt from all the impact of
those 80mph+ balls. But for us, I think it is excessive and unnecessary, if
not downright inhibitive.
marco
"Waqidi" <fali...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:a115ch$njd$1...@slb3.atl.mindspring.net...
Alan & Erin Williams
> "marco" <cacc...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:%BTY7.98371$Wd.31...@news1.rdc1.az.home.com...
> kicked ass in San
> Diego
> > warmup
http://www.natabletennis.com/ppplayer.asp?Pid=4
Larry Hodges
> kicked ass in San Diego
> warmup and Vegas beating 2100 chopper and 4 people over 1950 but lost to
my
> 1600 training partner Felix (ugghhh) ], Juic 999 Elite 2.0 (bth wings).
Where exactly did you "kick ass" in San Diego? Below are your results
(excluding hardbat, where you lost both matches played).
Wins: 1644, 1620, UR
Losses: 1745, 1871, 1915, 1930, 2092, 2113, 2219, 2247, 2292, 2324
-Larry Hodges, just the messenger
watersl...@erols.com
of thicker glue, then switch to thinner stuff for play, eventually
transitioning to even thinner mixes and eventually booster, as the glue
builds up. It's probably best to remove the glue build up after a while.
But as Marco points out, it is difficult to remove some glues from some
rubbers, especially very soft sponge. This is probably more to do with
the sponge type than the glue. Think about it. The softer the sponge,
the more porous and fragile it is. I've seen people try to remove glue
from fx, Samba, GPS, Spin Power SV etc, end up accidentally removing
giant chunks of sponge, basically destroying the sheet in frustration.
I just removed some Spintech glue from two sheets of the "regular" Spiun
Power and it came off like a breeze. Not a single "pock" and very
quickly. Removing glue from the softer Spin Power SV is MUCH more
difficult.
Julian
Michael Lalvani
Spintech offers two versions of Spin Power.
1) Spin Power (Normal version) and not hard version.
2) Spin Power S.V.
I think someone on the newsgroup may have pointed out incorrectly that we
have Spin Power Hard Version.
Sorry for the confusion.
Regards,
Michael - Spintech
"marco" <cacc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:WLIY7.97347$Wd.30...@news1.rdc1.az.home.com...
> Hey Ky, ask Michael at Spintech if he can send you trial sheets of both so
> you can try them before you decide. Because if you order the soft and you
> don't like it, you'll have to wait a long time (at least a week usually)
> before you get the harder. I saw the rubber you play with and I know your
> style. The soft will be way too soft for you. I think you'll find the
hard
> version to be just right. Michael really needs to change the name of that
> rubber from "hard version" to "normal version". Anyway, at least ask mike
> for a trial sheet so you can try both rubbers side by side.
>
> marco
>
> "Ky H. Nguyen" <Ky.N...@West.Boeing.Com> wrote in message
> news:3C334684...@West.Boeing.Com...
> > Marco,
> > It's must be God's will that you've never beaten me 8-)). For some
> > reason when you're playing well, I always manage to play better; and
> > when I play poorly, you always manage to do worse 8-)). Anyhow, thanks
> > for the advice but I think I'll try out the 2.1 soft version first.
> > Ky,
> >
> > marco wrote:
> > >
> > > Ky, what's up. Damn I lost to you again! That's 4 times in a row? I
> > > thought I had you this time, I took the first 2 games but you came
back
> to
> > > win in the fifth with excellant blocking and looping. Next time I'm
> going
> > > to have to remember not to let up on you. Haha, but good job anyway.
> > >
> > > If you get a sheet of Soft version, make sure you also get a sheet of
> normal
> > > version (or "hard version" as they label it) because I think the soft
is
> > > really too soft. I think you will love the spintech hard version,
> because
> > > the sponge is very good and the top sheet is excellant. The top sheet
> is
> > > grippy and very elastic. It will be good for you. The hard version,
I
> > > mean.
> > >
> > > marco
>
>
marco
Sometimes good play doesn't convert into giant rating increases, but I
firmly believe that once the level increases the ratings will follow. Got
sidetracked a little at this tournament because Ashu insisted that we were
using Stiga balls. So I warmed up friday with stiga balls, practiced my
serves and push with stiga balls, showed up early on saturday and warmed up
with stiga balls, and then 20 minutes before my first match found out that
actually we were using Nittaku balls. Thanks ashu.
The other funny thing that happened is that I brought mostly all white
shirts and only 3 colored shirts to the tournament. 5 minutes before my
first match the ref came up to me and informed me that we were using white
balls. I had to play soaking wet for the whole day. Sometimes I tried
rotating shirts by putting the wet ones outside to dry but the whether was
not cooperating. After 3 hours outside the shirts were still not dry.
Anyway I got to the 1/4 finals of the U-1900, losing in a nasty 7-game
heartbreaker to 1745 Grady Kenneth a combination long pips player. I should
have beaten him and I think it's fair to say that if I weren't completely
exhausted at that point (it was past 5:00pm for that match and I had been
competing all day) he would be toast. I think he knew it too but we shook
hands with smiles on our faces.
I had match points against 2113 rated combo long pips player David Umel.
David said that he felt he got very lucky against me which was nice. He
also called me a sandbagger at 1876 which made me very happy.
The significance of these two matches is that I am improving against a style
that would normally have killed me a few years ago. I've never been
particularly good at reading spin or handling junk, so these matches show
real progress.
I also had 2 deuce games against 2092 rated Sun Wade, both of those games I
was leading for much of the way. He is a penholder with a funky style-
hitting a lot of flat backhands very fast a la Chiang Peng Lung style and
also posseses a really nasty hooking forehand loop. I was able to hang well
with him and my serves especially messed him up. He killed me mostly with
his serves too though. After that match I got some good compliments from
him.
Probably my favorite match of the tournament besides my David Umel
heartbreaker was my 4th attempt at beating Ky Nyguyen, my nemisis. I
started out losing the first close and then winning the next 2, but Ky came
back.
Other highlights of my play were going deuce with 2292 rated Idan Levi. I
think he was surprised. And taking a game from 2324 rated Courtney Roberts.
Courtney was surprised that he couldn't lob me down. I'm just to strong
against lobs. I'm able to smash or loop them at will. I used the smash to
send him deep to his backhand, and then I jumped up and looped wide to his
forehand, the topspin bring him in close to the forehand. Then it's another
smash to the backhand.
All in all, I played 5 lefty's at this tournament. I played 2 really tricky
combo players. The only person who totally befuddled me was Tim Boggan. I
need to practice against some hardbat but 1500 rated Wayne Johnson hasn't
been showing up to the club anymore with his hardbat. I'll have to figure
out a way to handle hardbat players with my sponge somehow, despite not
having any hardbat players to train against. Anyone have any ideas?
Pretty soon I will solidify the final little gaps in my game and then I will
be playing solid 2000. There is a good chance that I will be rated over
1950 after my Vegas wins. If I didn't drop that one match to Felix, I'd be
over 2000.
marco
"Alan & Erin Williams" <will...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C344FF4...@yahoo.com...
Waqidi
An 85 gram blade is not considered a heavy blade but a normal weight blade.
A well balanced 84 or 85 gram blade with typical weight rubber with 2.0 mm
sponge can be used by a wide variety of players.
The fact that you have trouble wielding this weight racket is most likely
because you are just not used to this weight or the blades you have tried
are very head heavy. I would recommend to almost anyone a blade which
weighs between 80 and 85 grams.
The current blade I am playing with weighs around 85 grams. Larry and the
group, what weight blades are you playing with? Perhaps I am out of step
with what players are using these days.
Waqidi
"marco" <cacc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:LsVY7.99209$Wd.31...@news1.rdc1.az.home.com...
Larry Hodges
> Marco,
>
> An 85 gram blade is not considered a heavy blade but a normal weight
blade.
> A well balanced 84 or 85 gram blade with typical weight rubber with 2.0 mm
> sponge can be used by a wide variety of players.
>
> The fact that you have trouble wielding this weight racket is most likely
> because you are just not used to this weight or the blades you have tried
> are very head heavy. I would recommend to almost anyone a blade which
> weighs between 80 and 85 grams.
>
> The current blade I am playing with weighs around 85 grams. Larry and the
> group, what weight blades are you playing with? Perhaps I am out of step
> with what players are using these days.
I've never weighed a blade or paid attention to the weight. When I try out a
blade, I simply see if it feels right, and the weight is part of that. I've
used the Oberon blade from Butterfly since 1987 (discontinued many years
ago), and have no idea what it weighs.
Most weight really comes from the sponge. So a thin but large blade will
usually end up weighing more in total weight than a smaller but thicker (and
heavier) blade, once the sponge is put on.
-Larry Hodges
Larry Hodges
> Hey thanks for taking the time to post all those result!
>
> Sometimes good play doesn't convert into giant rating increases, but I
> firmly believe that once the level increases the ratings will follow. Got
> sidetracked a little at this tournament because Ashu insisted that we were
> using Stiga balls. So I warmed up friday with stiga balls, practiced my
> serves and push with stiga balls, showed up early on saturday and warmed
up
> with stiga balls, and then 20 minutes before my first match found out that
> actually we were using Nittaku balls. Thanks ashu.
This is not a big deal. I warmed up with Butterfly balls for my final with
Steve Berger (over 40 hardbat), which was played with Nittaku's, and won
3-0. It only takes a moment to adjust to such a minor difference. Don't
blame losses on something as silly as this! Think of it this way: you had a
lot of practice with a 2450-2500 player (Ashu Jain) just before these
tournaments. I think that more than makes up for practicing with the wrong
type of ball! In the future, you'll get the ball right, but not have such
good practice. I don't get such good practice before tournaments!
> I had match points against 2113 rated combo long pips player David Umel.
> David said that he felt he got very lucky against me which was nice. He
> also called me a sandbagger at 1876 which made me very happy.
Although you lost 3-2, the online scores indicate you never had match point.
You were up 2-1, and lost the last two games 11-8, 11-8.
With 11-point games, getting to deuce or even getting games is no longer a
big deal. For example, you cited all your close games with higher rated
players, but you also had to struggle against lower rated players. Your two
wins in the tournament, against players rated 1620 and 1644, were 3-1.
Against the 1620 player, you won 10-12, 15-13, 11-9, 11-6, so you had to
pull out 15-13 and 11-9 games. Similarly, I had to go 11-9 or deuce with a
number of lower-rated players at the Nationals and Teams, and did the same
to higher-rated players. It doesn't mean much these days with shortened
games.
-Larry Hodges
watersl...@erols.com
Mark V. You have turned it into a promotion for Asti, at the expense of
Spintech. This is not fair or fruitful.
> I was a bit disturbed by the wording used to
> advertise the new Spintech Booster. I do not consider the ASTI Speed glue
> products as having an obnoxious smell.
If you go to http://www.spintechnologies.com/glues.htm, it says "Non
pungent odor." It does NOT mention Asti or any other company's product.
At About.com, Michael's post said his booster had an "absence of pungent
odor". Again, no mention of Asti or any other company. Michael has never
compared his products to Asti in any of his promotional materials or
ads. I can't understand why you are trying to do that now.
> This is of course just a subjective
> opinion. I certainly don't think the smell of existing speed glue or
> Booster products from ASTI or other companies limit their use to those
> players who don't play often. This is the jist of the Spintech ad.
This is not the jist of the ad. He only mentions his own product and
does not compare it to anyone else's.
> With regard to my bias. I heartily agree. However, since you have designed
> some of their packaging (I assume for pay), I would suggest that you now
> have a bias as well. I can tell you that I am not paid at all for my work
> on the new rubber. It is totally academic to me. Even if the rubber is a
> great success in the future, I will not likely see a penny from its sale.
> My bias is intrinsic in that I worked on something for many years. You no
> doubt have a relationship with Spintech at this point. Be honest. Even if
> you did the design for free, in some way it is your baby.
I have done some designs for Spintech (including the labels for the new
boosters and glue), for which I have NOT been paid. I am happy to help
support an American company which is producing quality products. I am
not the only one. People such as Tahl, Musa, McCool, Wally Green and
Eric Boggan also like and use Spin Power and recommend it. I have done
free designs for t-shirts and logos for plenty of tournaments and clubs.
This is all to contribute to the general cause of table tennis. If I
have a bias, it is only that I like the Spintech stuff. If I didn't like
it, I wouldn't have wasted my time using it the last two years! I have
tried several other blades and rubbers during that time and I always
come back.
Another plus for Spintech is their policy of letting people try their
equipment and return it if they don't like it. No other company does
this. Spintech is also very open to input from players at different
levels. If someone like me gives them suggestions it is useful because
at my level I represent the majority of the TT buying public. I am
certainly not wed to Spintech. I am open to whatever will be best for my
game. If I try the new Asti rubber and prefer it to what I use now, I'll
certainly switch. Hopefully the new Asti stuff will be part of a future
Iguana test.
> I would also agree that it is not really fair to judge a product by using
> one sheet. I will hopefully get a chance to try some more Spintech rubber
> again in the future. I wish Spintech the very best success in the New Year.
I would suggest trying 2.1. I would also humbly suggest you refrain from
making comparisons between the two companies. There's plenty of room for
everyone, and I think most of us want to see American companies be
successful, especially considering the heavy international competition
from large established European and Asian companies.
Julian
watersl...@erols.com
> With 11-point games, getting to deuce or even getting games is no longer a
> big deal. For example, you cited all your close games with higher rated
> players, but you also had to struggle against lower rated players. Your two
> wins in the tournament, against players rated 1620 and 1644, were 3-1.
> Against the 1620 player, you won 10-12, 15-13, 11-9, 11-6, so you had to
> pull out 15-13 and 11-9 games. Similarly, I had to go 11-9 or deuce with a
> number of lower-rated players at the Nationals and Teams, and did the same
> to higher-rated players. It doesn't mean much these days with shortened
> games.
By the same token, Cheng also led in the first two games against Eric
and lost. I think the 3rd game was also very close. He ended up losing
5-1, but the match was closer than that would indicate.
Julian
Scott Gordon
an obnoxious smell. Perhaps the word "obnoxious" is in the eye of
the beholder, and perhaps some players actually like the smell of
certain speed glues. But to me, it remains a distraction and an
irritant that I have no choice but to live with, because I am out-
numbered. I would be shocked if Asti, Spintech, or any other company
ever managed to make a speed glue that doesn't stink up the whole area.
The Nationals smelled like a formula-1 racetrack... always does.
Scott
watersl...@erols.com wrote:
: Waqidi, this thread started with someone looking for a substitute for
Gene Schwartz
> >
> > marco
> Marco,
>
> hundreds of brands of rubber. Sometimes there has been a compatibility
> problem but this was not a common problem.
>
> I never use lighter fluid.
>
> I just checked my records and I used the Spintech glue given to me by
> Spintech for the my tests. So much for your theory. I also played with the
> rubber on the Spintech Musa blade and the Spintech Kontrol blade the entire
> time I did the tests. Both these blades are made in Germany. (by a company
> who ASTI used to make rubber for.)
>
> In cleaned the rubber every time I used sometimes more than once a session.
> Certainly at the end of the session. I covered the sheets with plastic when
> they were stored away.
>
> Waqidi
I am currently again using the regular version of Spintech SpinPower
rubber after experimenting with some other rubbers over the last few
months. One thing which continues to impress me is its durability. I'm
not an elite player, so perhaps I am not sensitive to the most subtle
changes, but I play a lot, and I haven't noticed degradation in 40+
hours of using SpinPower. I do speed glue, and have used both the
Tibhar Rapid Clean, and the Spintech long lasting.
I've never heard anyone else comment negatively about the durability
of the Spintech rubber line...so perhaps you got a bad sheet.
Beavis and Butthead
Apparently Marco got the words "kicked" and "ass" inadvertently
reversed. Either that or he misspelled "kissed".
B&B
Larry Hodges
news:cb389374.02010...@posting.google.com...
The thing that irritated me is that he spent weeks and weeks bragging about
how he was a 2000 player, and then in San Diego lost to players rated 1745,
1871, 1915 and 1930, with no wins against anyone over 1650. He told me he
did better at the U.S. Nationals, but he obviously wasn't a 2000 player at
San Diego, contrary to what he posted about his play there (with enough
excuses to last a long, long time). We'll see how he did at the Nationals -
hopefully much better. I know he beat one 2110 player in a best of five to
11.
-Larry Hodges
marco
pick up 200 points in vegas. However I lost 50 over there too.
No matter what the scores or the ratings do, the point is that I'm finally
learning to read spin, and make better shot selection. I'm working the
pushes and the blocks to keep myself from just playing one way all the time,
so in other words versatility is working too. In the past I could only play
a topspin game and any junk or pips would kill me.
I will be around 1950 after vegas. I said I would be 2000 and I missed it by
50 points. That Umel match could have been my 50, or at least not losing to
Felix could have been my 50. Anyway, it's close enough that you can't say
I'm bullshitting anyone. And I think that 1950 is exactly what I'm playing
right now. I need to iron out a few very minor things to reach 2000. Mostly
2000 means that I don't lose to Felix, not even when I'm tired. And when
I'm up 7-3 against Umel in the deciding game, that I don't choke. I'm
scheduling a hernia operation right now so I'm not really training, just
maintaining. However when this is over I will come back strong and I will
take it to the next level.
Remember that 6 months ago I was a 1750 player. That's 200 points in 6
months, without the luxuries that you have in maryland, or a youthful skinny
body. And that's not just 200 rating points won by luck. That's a full
increase in SKILL LEVEL won with blood and sweat and in some cases tears. I
dieted like a monk, ran up and down mountains and football bleachers with a
hernia, spent hours in a garage with a robot and 1600 level friends with
boxes of nittaku 1 star balls, drove 1 and 1/2 hours each way to Tucson to
take lessons with a 2072 rated Ukranian once a week, spent 30 minutes a day
spinning balls onto a carpet and trying to create spin on a bed that served
as a make believe table, etc. etc. for that level increase. So I deserve
every hard fought one of those delicious little rating points.
marco
"Larry Hodges" <la...@larrytt.com> wrote in message
news:uq2Z7.47829$fo.15...@news1.rdc1.md.home.com...
marco
marco
"marco" <cacc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:yk%Y7.100443$Wd.31...@news1.rdc1.az.home.com...
Kagin
> Marco,
>
> An 85 gram blade is not considered a heavy blade but a normal weight blade.
> A well balanced 84 or 85 gram blade with typical weight rubber with 2.0 mm
> sponge can be used by a wide variety of players.
>
> The fact that you have trouble wielding this weight racket is most likely
> because you are just not used to this weight or the blades you have tried
> are very head heavy. I would recommend to almost anyone a blade which
> weighs between 80 and 85 grams.
>
> The current blade I am playing with weighs around 85 grams. Larry and the
> group, what weight blades are you playing with? Perhaps I am out of step
> with what players are using these days.
I've been using blades that are about 90 grams, or lighter blades with
added lead tape. However, i use anti and it's very light in weight.
When i play shakehands inverted on both sides, i use an 85-90 gram
blade with 2.0 japanese rubber.
kagin
Gene Schwartz
> With all due respect, I've never met a speed glue that didn't have
> an obnoxious smell. Perhaps the word "obnoxious" is in the eye of
> the beholder, and perhaps some players actually like the smell of
> certain speed glues. But to me, it remains a distraction and an
> irritant that I have no choice but to live with, because I am out-
> numbered. I would be shocked if Asti, Spintech, or any other company
> ever managed to make a speed glue that doesn't stink up the whole area.
> The Nationals smelled like a formula-1 racetrack... always does.
>
> Scott
>
Scott - I'll have to let you sniff a little of the Spintech glue...it
really doesn't have a strong smell. I've even drunk some before
matches with no adverse affects.
Waqidi
that all your hard work will bring you continued success on the court.
Waqidi
"marco" <cacc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:104Z7.100527$Wd.31...@news1.rdc1.az.home.com...
Kagin
> an obnoxious smell. Perhaps the word "obnoxious" is in the eye of
> the beholder, and perhaps some players actually like the smell of
> certain speed glues. But to me, it remains a distraction and an
> irritant that I have no choice but to live with, because I am out-
> numbered. I would be shocked if Asti, Spintech, or any other company
> ever managed to make a speed glue that doesn't stink up the whole area.
> The Nationals smelled like a formula-1 racetrack... always does.
Wow. So now that i've been to the nationals, when someone asks if
i've experienced live formula-1 racing, i can say "a little." I would
guess that formula-1 racing is a little faster and has slightly higher
rpms than table tennis, but at least we have the smell!
I went to a demolition derby once, it had just rained. I had to leave
after ten minutes or so because my head was killing me - all the
burning rubber.
kagin
marco
asked a few times about you but each time you weren't around. We were
supposed to hit in San Diego but I guess we were both overloaded.
marco
"Waqidi" <fali...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:a12meh$34q$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
Larry Hodges
My only objections are 1) weeks and weeks of boasting about your playing
level being 2000 (so you have to expect someone to point out that you lost
to players rated 1745, 1871, 1915, 1930; 2) posting of false statements,
such as the match points you claimed, or having a "kick-ass" tournament in
San Diego when obviously you did not. As I've posted several times, and
you've rejected, don't talk - just do! If you did as well as you say you did
in Las Vegas, good - but the actions are enough. You don't need to post for
weeks in advance alerting us to your playing level. Also, after just about
any tournament, players can say "what if?" The key thing is that opponents
have a way of forcing reality on you. You questioned why I hadn't broken
2300; I could easily have pointed out that I've broken 2300 three times - in
the middle of tournaments! Unfortunately, I continued in each one, and ended
up under 2300. I could then post all the "what ifs?" I want, but the point
was that I was unable to hold the 2300 - and similarly, after weeks and
weeks of bragging, you were definitely far from 2000 in San Diego. Hopefully
your statements about Las Vegas are more accurate, and you will have had a
fine tournament there. And guess what? Wouldn't it be nicer to have others
talk about you, rather than you doing it all the time?
-Larry Hodges, with hundreds and hundreds of "what ifs" and "almosts" in his
past, and who realizes that "almosts" are rarely as close as some think. (I
played very close at the Teams with two 2450-2500 players; does that make me
nearly 2450? No - it means they raised their level of play when they were
challenged.)
"marco" <cacc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:104Z7.100527$Wd.31...@news1.rdc1.az.home.com...
Dave Williams
door and going through it, when it comes to determining one's own level of
play. Here's a personal example from Baltimore...
Williams, Dave 1725+44=1769
WINS
+20 1824 Huang, Dana Xiao Dan -9,5,6,8
+20 1822 Myers, Neil 9,4,7
+20 1816 Nadmichettu, Raghu 7,9,11
+13 1780 Hodgson, Robert E. -9,5,-3,9,9 ------Down mid game in fourth and
fifth...won from down 9-7 in the fifth
+10 1750 Miller, Gerry 9,3,-3,-9,5 -------------Tie clinching 9th match
+6 1673 Bailey, Christopher T. -12,8,6,6
+1 1527 Kuznetzow, Irving 4,5,-5,-8,5 -----Struggled in mid match, recovered
for key early match in eventual 9 game tie win
COMPETITIVE LOSSES
-13 1676 Fuller, Michael 1,-5,9,7
-7 1754 David Elliot -7,8,-6,3,9 ------Played badly in fourth and early in
fifth as David found my pocket, almost pulled it out out with Boggan no look.
-6 1766 Langseth, Abraham -10,5,10,8
-3 1840 Jackson, Marcus 8,7,-7,1
-2 1883 Wei, Barbara 9,-12,-9,9,8 -------Came back from 8-10 in second. Was
up 9-8 in the fourth and up 5-7 in the fifth. Revenge burns :)
-1 1921 Ma, William 8,-10,-7,10,4 -----Up 2-1 in games, I had match point 10-9
with the serve in the fourth
-1 1951 Mak, Henry Y. 9,-11,5,6 -----Sunday fatigue
NON COMPETITIVE MATCHES
-5 1810 Smith, Elbert 7,10,3 ----Sunday fatigue
-2 1880 Zimmerman, James W. 7,7,5 ----long pips
-4 1835 Kennedy, George D. Gus 6,6,5 -----long pips
-2 1888 Roskos, Ken 5,3,2 ----lefty Seemiller
-0 1980 Miller, Greg 4,4,4
-0 2031 Endicott, Scott 8,4,8
-0 2042 Yeung, Daniel 6,8,6
-0 2100 Brown, Dennis 4,6,4
-0 2131 Charles, Grantley 5,6,6
-0 2174 Berrios, Hector 4,1,4
I think my results can be used to illustrate both the Marco theory and the
reality checks that followed.
Viewed in one way, I can say about myself that I "should be" or "almost" was
1900...for the want of two points against David Elliott, three against Barbara
and that match point I held against Bill Ma...I would have been another 65 or
so rating points up...and would have been adjusted.....etc, etc.
But, the pattern of play over the three days would indicate that I am right
where I belong, perhaps with upside potential. I didn't get a game from
anybody over 1951. I lost to three players under 1800, beat three players over
1800. I am roughly playing at 1800, don't you guys think?
"Almosts" do not automatically place one in the league of the guy we almost
got. Consistent results over time are the only real way to demonstrate "I'm
XX00"
Marco did grab a couple wins in Vegas that will push him up and this is not to
say that Marco is not a good player or does not have potential...only that the
numbers reveal much. We can interpret them any way we want, but, given
sufficient sample size...that are pretty damn accurate as to predicting likely
match outcomes.
Lefty XX00
Waqidi
>
> I've never heard anyone else comment negatively about the durability
> of the Spintech rubber line...so perhaps you got a bad sheet.
I now suspect that this is the case. Also playing style and conditions also
effect longevity. I suggest that people try the Spintech rubber and see how
it works for them. Based on the number of positive feedback on this
newsgroup it sounds like Spintech has some excellent products.
I also played with my first sheet of Avalox AVX Pronte (2.2 mm) last night
and enjoyed the first session with it.
Waqidi
Kagin
> NON COMPETITIVE MATCHES
> -2 1888 Roskos, Ken 5,3,2 ----lefty Seemiller
>
> Lefty XX00
Do you have trouble playing against lefties, or trouble playing
against seemiller style?
kagin
Dave Williams
Dave Williams
partner...but, man, it must look ugly bystanders. The thing about Ken
is...his head up forehand block and the expected Seemiller windshield
wiper backhand can both go to both corners with absolutely no
telegraphing. I spend the entire match playing the last point instead
of the one I'm in. He even pushes for winners against me...there is
clearly something I am not seeing. Ken beat all three Iguana Dons, even
though we downed his South Park Club Dye Hard team 5-3. I think he has
given Julian fits over the past year or so, also.
watersl...@erols.com
>
> Seriously, I do OK lefty to lefty because I have a good lefty practice
> partner...but, man, it must look ugly bystanders. The thing about Ken
> is...his head up forehand block and the expected Seemiller windshield
> wiper backhand can both go to both corners with absolutely no
> telegraphing. I spend the entire match playing the last point instead
> of the one I'm in. He even pushes for winners against me...there is
> clearly something I am not seeing. Ken beat all three Iguana Dons, even
> though we downed his South Park Club Dye Hard team 5-3. I think he has
> given Julian fits over the past year or so, also.
Yes! Ken has definitely given me fits for several years. I have beaten
him, but mostly he tends to beat me, and it's always close. It used to
always be in 3. Now it's in 5! He's always around my rating or a little
lower. The last time was his close win in 5 at the Teams. His quick
angle blocks were just amazingly acurate and I was on my heels
constantly, except when I helplessly watched the ball wizz by out of
reach. Grrrrr.
I guess at 5, 3 & 2, Lefty must have even more problems!
Julian
Mark E. Wallace
Mark
"Milt" <botw...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20020101133135...@mb-fw.aol.com...
> Which newer rubber is closest to mark V?
Andrew Gooding
higher as advertised?
I've still got a couple sheets of Asti Lightspeed Sp 2.2 I'm using on light
blades. The sponge is a little harder than I like, but it serves great and
opening loops are fast and low. I had a chance a month ago to play with a
protype sheet of the new Asti rubber, with green sponge, which I rather liked.
Let us know when it gets closer to being marketed.
-- Andrew
Waqidi wrote:
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Alan & Erin Williams
> Seriously, I do OK lefty to lefty because I have a good lefty practice
> partner...but, man, it must look ugly bystanders. The thing about Ken
> is...his head up forehand block and the expected Seemiller windshield
> wiper backhand can both go to both corners with absolutely no
> telegraphing. I spend the entire match playing the last point instead
> of the one I'm in. He even pushes for winners against me...there is
> clearly something I am not seeing. Ken beat all three Iguana Dons, even
> though we downed his South Park Club Dye Hard team 5-3. I think he has
> given Julian fits over the past year or so, also.
>
Because Mr. Ken Roskos is a repeat and frequent entrant at the Maryland
Medallion Championships, I've had the opportunity to see him play 'up
close'. I can;t really comment on Lefty vs Roskos, I've always happened to
miss that one.
A. Roskos is tenacious, and has 'No Quit'.
B. I've never ever seen him more than 24 inchs from the edge of the table.
C. The seemiller grip makes an excellent 'hidden angle' blocking weapon.
Given that, and Larry's advice to play Seemillers wide to their backhands,
some educated guesses, re: your matchup.
If your strokes are 'big' or if you don;t recover as fast as you once did,
that 'at the table blocking' will rush you, maybe even winning points
outright by going to 'the same spot twice'. Because you have to use your
backhand to find his wide BH (lefty to lefty), and your BH wide is more hit
than spin, he can keep the ball in play. You need a BH loop or at least a
topspin counter to make his return 'rise more'. That should set-up this
sequence: You BH topspin wide, he Seemiller blocks crosscourt, you step
around FH down the line. I can only see that working if you can force
'more air under his return', if he can snap block or deadblock your BH,
it's not going to be easy to find the steparound opening.
Alan
Larry Hodges
> Given that, and Larry's advice to play Seemillers wide to their backhands,
Actually, wide to both corners.
-Larry Hodges
Waqidi
The rubber was slower on the first gluing compared to the experimental ASTI
rubber but the control was excellent and I got good spin. I expect the
rubber will speed up once it is broken in. This is typical of many rubber
sheets. I need to play with it a bit more before I make any more comments.
My first impression is I like it.
The green sponge rubber you tried will not likely be the one chosen.
Unfortunately the version you have tried has the E4 topsheet which did not
wear well. It playes great for a while but losses its grip way too early.
The G type top sheet is the one which will be the one to go into production.
This topsheet lasts and lasts and has a bigger dynamic range than the E4
Waqidi.
"Andrew Gooding" <good...@marshall.edu> wrote in message
news:3C361A3E...@marshall.edu...
watersl...@erols.com
I've lost to Roskos at least the last 3 times, at least. He just eats up
loops. Next time I might try pushing and/or lobbing. - Julian
Djgambeat
>combo players. The only person who totally befuddled me was Tim >Boggan. I
>need to practice against some hardbat but 1500 rated Wayne >Johnson hasn't
>been showing up to the club anymore with his hardbat. I'll have to >figure
>out a way to handle hardbat players with my sponge somehow, >despite not
>having any hardbat players to train against. Anyone have any >ideas?
>
I played Tim Boggan at the Last Stiga Open. I think I won 3-1 or something. I
play an offensive game so I didn't do much adjustment except for serving more
deep in his backhand then 3rd ball attacking as much as possible. I also tried
to end the point early as he seems to get better as the rally goes longer.
When I think of it, I didn't think he took our game seriously. I think he was
fooling around too much ie., he took a lot of no look fh drive. My friend who
was watching from the sideline had a lot of laugh watching him. He was even
talking to her and Rocky (who was watching also) during the game. I don't know
if this was his usual game or just a tactic, but it actually worked coz there
were times when I would actually lose concentration because of this.
Diego
Djgambeat
On a different topic but somewhat related to what is discussed in this message,
Marco's skill could very well be 2000. He may be having a bad day or week or
felt sick or didn't like the playing area or accustomed to a certain playing
style or played a nemesis or a slow start, etc. My point is, there might be
several factors as to why he lost all those matches which led to him not
getting all those points.
My .02 cents.
Thanks.
Diego
Larry Hodges
news:20020111122551...@mb-ch.aol.com...
Tim is "famous" for his "no-look forehand." It's how he hits his forehand.
His game is basically backhand block and forehand no-look swatting. Don't
laugh - many years ago (1960s?) I believe he was around #10 in the country!
These days, he's just as likely to play with his hardbat as with his normal
pips-out sponge on both sides.
-Larry Hodges
Larry Hodges
Definitely. However, when someone who is rated about 1850 plays about 1850,
the most common cause is that he's 1850.
-Larry Hodges
marco
Thankyou.
marco
"Larry Hodges" <la...@larrytt.com> wrote in message
news:RMF%7.65997$fo.23...@news1.rdc1.md.home.com...
Larry Hodges
> Larry, please save this post and repost it when the Vegas ratings come
out.
Why? We were talking about San Diego. See the heading above. At San Diego,
you were far from a 2000 player. Apparently, you will come out about 1950
after the Nationals (according to your judgement, which could be correct),
which is also less than 2000. I have no difficulty in believing you may be
rated 1950 after the Nationals, based on what you have posted. Of course, I
don't have first-hand results, and so will wait and see myself.
Note that just as a 2000 player can have a bad tournament, an 1850 player
can have a good one. It works both ways. We'll see in future tournaments,
won't we?
-Larry Hodges