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Edited (The Machine) : 6/16/2003 3:59:30 AM GMT
One of the reasons that worked for Spear in Pistols' story is because he
Spear has a reputation. One could not walk up to the table and start
shooting moving straights and expect them to work. They might get one or
two right off the bat, but even an average goal would start to become hip to
it and then you would have to start working something else.
There definitely is a time and a place for moving straights and I believe
they are not utilized as much as they could be. Another good point by
Pistol....deception. If you do not know how to sell your moving straight
you might be doing more yourself more harm than good by shooting it. One
problem with the moving straight is that people move the ball too far. It
is imperative to keep the ball in the one hole (or even less, off the post)
and have a quick release because more often than not, it has to do with
timing. Don't hesitate. It is a shot that has to be committed to. If you
hesitate, you will give them time to jump back.
There are a few ways to shoot a moving straight. Learn them and then learn
what straights work on what defenses. They will make your scoring process a
lot easier. You would be surprised at how big the net looks after scoring a
couple of these puppies.
Moya
Pistol <den...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:A914E607D60C42B9...@xforum.forum...
That statement is clearly false
Steve Dupre
I actually read past the first 3 lines of a Moya response (post) and found it
to be very interesting..Damm..Now i have to go into the archives and pull up
all the previous post by Moya..I just might learn something..: )
Be nice to me Moya , it's a compliment !
Steve T
Steve, You are correct. Often times you can and must work the inside holes even
more on the better goalies because they will not allow you to repeatedly tee
off on longs. It really all depends on the goalie and how you set your shots up
and many other factors that will determine what you will shoot. You had better
be able to hit ALL the holes on a good goalie if you want to successfully score
a decent percentage.
On to the moving straight. One point that is lost is that you really don't
need to move the ball to be effective. In fact if done correctly is the most
successful straight on a jumpy goalie is a lift straight where you make an
exaggerated up then down motion striking the ball into a very tight straight
hole. Much tighter then is possible with any type of moving straight. The
slightest flinch on the goalies part and the ball is in the hole. It's a very
effective shot and under many situations a better more effective option then a
moving straight, yet very under utilized by most pull shooters. In fact most
pull shooters are unable to properly execute this shot.
Moya is 100% correct when she says it is important to be sure to not pull the
ball too far and to make sure your hitting it in the 1 hole when executing a
moving straight. Your goal is to get them to move out of the way and the
tighter in the corner you make it the better off you are.
Dave Gummeson
>On to the moving straight. One point that is lost is that you really don't
need to move the ball to be effective. In fact if done correctly is the most
successful straight on a jumpy goalie is a lift straight where you make an
exaggerated up then down motion striking the ball into a very tight straight
hole. Much tighter then is possible with any type of moving straight. The
slightest flinch on the goalies part and the ball is in the hole. It's a
very
effective shot and under many situations a better more effective option then
a
moving straight, yet very under utilized by most pull shooters. In fact most
pull shooters are unable to properly execute this shot.
Dave,
I totally agree with you here, however, don't you find that some people key
in on ball movement and some key in on man movement? I would shoot a really
good "lift straight" at times, only to find the goalie not bail. I know I
sold it really well. They just didn't react to the man. Then, I would do a
moving straight and nudge the ball a bit, (now granted, my moving straight
tucks right back to the one hole, off the post on most occasions) but found
them to bail quite nicely.
Maybe the difference is between a racer and a jumpy goalie. I would think
the lift straight would work better on a jumpy goalie and the moving
straight would work better on a racer. Would you agree with that?
>Streights & short middle don't really have a chance on a good goalie
I don't agree with this either. A better way to say it would be....a good
goalie will make you execute very accurate straights and middles. People
seem to forget there are more than just 3 holes (straight, middle and long).
There is also the 2-hole and the 3/4, which are both very effective, if
timed well. Not to mention the spray middle on a reverse-d (two bar lead).
Like Dave says, learn to shoot ALL the holes and on command.
Timing, timing, timing.....if you hesitate you get blocked....specially on a
good baiting goalie.
Moya
DLGumby2000 <dlgum...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030616163243...@mb-m04.aol.com...
Only partially. I haven't run into to many goalies that can effectively react
to the movement of the ball. If the goalie can wait for the ball to move and
still get to the long then (in my opinion) the long is not fast enough. I think
most racers are in fact also anticipating and/or also very jumpy which allows
them to get to the long on time. The other thing that happens a lot with
goalies is they react quicker to the long with the goalie and a bit slower with
the 2 bar which can cause them to get to the long and not get out of your way
on a lift straight. In this case a short middle usually does the trick. The
third cause for the goalie not jumping on the lift straight could be that your
not properly executing the shot. This is easier to show then explain but, you
need to have sort of a exaggerated "pop" on the backswing that makes the goalie
flinch. And a flinch is usually all it takes to score the shot. Finally, if
your shooting at the wrong time(when the goalie is using a more random D) and
they're not looking or reacting to your shot then the shot will not be
effective. It sounds like this is not the case in your example since you had
said the goalie moved when you moved the ball but, not when you used the lift
straight unless when you used the lift straight they just happened to not be
using a reaction type D and then they were using one when you tried the moving
straight.
Anyway those are my thougts on the shot. I just find that for me the lift
straight seems to work better in most cases(not all) but, most.
Dave
I agree and that is why I'm guessing I have found the moving straight to be
effective for me. Being a woman, my shot is slower to the long hole in
comparison to men, generally speaking. (Of course, technique has a lot to
do with the shot, but you will get no arguement from me that women are going
to have a slower shot.)
>The other thing that happens a lot with
> goalies is they react quicker to the long with the goalie and a bit slower
with
> the 2 bar which can cause them to get to the long and not get out of your
way
> on a lift straight. In this case a short middle usually does the trick.
I use that quite a bit myself. Especially against racers because they
usually race faster with the goalie and drag the 2 bar.
>The third cause for the goalie not jumping on the lift straight could be
that your
> not properly executing the shot. This is easier to show then explain but,
you
> need to have sort of a exaggerated "pop" on the backswing that makes the
goalie
> flinch. And a flinch is usually all it takes to score the shot.
I can visualise what the shot looks like. Tom Yore shoots it quite well. I
must admit, I'm not the best at executing that shot. I do find it more
natural for myself to shoot the moving straight over the lift straight.
Maybe that is because I have more security with it as I haven't used the
lift straight on account that I know I don't execute it well.
Hmmm....something else to work on. :-/
>Finally, if your shooting at the wrong time(when the goalie is using a more
random D) and
> they're not looking or reacting to your shot then the shot will not be
> effective. It sounds like this is not the case in your example since you
had
> said the goalie moved when you moved the ball but, not when you used the
lift
> straight unless when you used the lift straight they just happened to not
be
> using a reaction type D and then they were using one when you tried the
moving
> straight.
Usually, my timing is my strong point. I think it has more to do with
execution.
>I just find that for me the lift
> straight seems to work better in most cases(not all) but, most.
One can never have enough in their repertoire (or would arsenal be a better
word? :-P)
> Anyway those are my thougts on the shot.
Thanks Dave. I, for one, appreciate your time. Especially having a first
hand glimps at your typing speed. J/K. :-P Btw..when you gonna make it into
chat again? Haven't seen you around for a while. I hope all my ribbing
didn't scare you off. :-P
Moya
No, you didn't scare me off :)
I just haven't had enough time to go in there lately. I usually hop on and off
pretty quick and sometimes my daughter uses my account to play games at
ZoogDisney.com. It's usually when I'm stuck at home with the kids and caught up
on all my household chores(Mr. Mom) I'll try and check it out. I've got some
time off over the next week and a half so, I might be able to get on here a
little more. Maybe I should be using all my extra time to practice though?
Hmmmm...
Dave
How about Adrian's straight? would you guys label that one as a lift straight?
or is he simply timing the hole?
Adrian has a really quick release on his straight. I can't recall seeing
him do a lift straight with hesitation. I think he times the hole well.
Moya
FOOSER25 <foos...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030617005128...@mb-m03.aol.com...
Shouldn't we all!!!
Moya
DLGumby2000 <dlgum...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030616193916...@mb-m16.aol.com...
That
statement is clearly false
Steve Dupre..................................................................................................................................................................Those
5 words kinda cut like a kniife,have'nt you ever played someone that would'nt
let you beat them straight?
"Pistol" <den...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:63502BE3D96D463A...@xforum.forum...
Steve Dupre
P.S., Dave, Lets start a thread about spray deadbar.
Then the long game is open all day, period. Pretty basic, really; if
you're always camped on the straight, then there are 4 holes being
blocked by 1 man. Not good odds. If you're camped on the straight
and short, then the long holes are all open. Unless you think you can
race out there you're in trouble. If you think you can race out, good
luck blocking a good shooter....and if you're _not_ camped, then
straight is open for good shooters with good timing. (But a lot of
pull shooters with good longs can't hit the straight anyway; it's
actually pretty hard to do well.)
Sumner
Hmm....that's the interesting part of this game. Reverse psychology.
The moving straight, you say, is not worthy of a crucial point? That is one
of the main reasons why I would use it at such a time. I can't tell you how
many times I have shot a moving straight on a crucial point. There are a
couple of points here. One, I believe most goalies expect their opponent to
want to close with a long. Nothing says finishing like a long. So, I
believe goalies are more inclined to expect a long on a crucial point. Two,
there is more chance of a goalie being a little more jumpy on a crucial
point. These two reasons (plus previous shot selection) makes the moving
straight a very good shot for a crucial point.
Laurette and I were playing Cindy and Gena in WD in Vegas last year.
We were on the winners side and they were on their way to double dipping us.
It was the second game of the second set, they won the first game and we
were down 4-2. Pretty much do or die for us. Anyway....I passed, shot a
moving straight, scored. 4-3. Stole the ball, passed the ball, shot a
moving straight. 4-4. Stole the ball, passed the ball, shot a????? Yup,
you guessed it...a moving straight. Now, there was nothing more critical
than those last three points. One question, does anyone think she would
have blocked it the third time?? I basically thought, "there is no way she
is going to think I will shoot this again." Plus, she jumped every other
time...what would make me think she wouldn't do it again??
Another interesting, but painful story about my match against Gummeson
in Mixed playing with Todd. It was match ball. I had the ball on my five.
Dave was sitting in the lane...well..he was moving, but only slightly. I
was sitting there looking at the gigantic wall that was open in front of me.
I thought, "there is no way he is leaving me a wall this big on match
point." "Everyone knows you make someone go up on a crucial point." "He is
totally baiting me for the wall." So...what do I do?? I pass right into
his man thinking he is going to bail to the wall. He knocks the ball
forward and Todd was so stunned that Dave didn't jump to the wall, the ball
fell into the goal, off the post behind Todd's goalie. I'm sure we both had
the most stunned looks on our faces as we were shaking hands. Todd said to
me after, "well, if it's any consolation...I woulda bailed." I said, "yeah,
I would have too." I talked with Dave about it a while ago and asked him
what the hell he was thinking to leave me such a huge wall on match point.
He said, "everyone knows you are supposed to force the up on a crucial
point, so I sat on the up." There you have it....reverse psychology.
Moya
Pistol <den...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:90BDB74A7ECD4BA4...@xforum.forum...
The best memory I have of you and I was when we were in that cab, I forget
where it was, and we were sure the cabbie ran over someone. Do you remember
that? You must. We laughed our asses off for forever. I think you even
went back to check. OMG...that was some funny shit.
You are hysterical to hang with. I had a great time in Texas...would love
to do it some more.
*kisses*
Moya
REPOuTWO <repo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030616153231...@mb-m16.aol.com...
I understand what you are saying totally. And I agree with you for the most
part. BUT...I wonder why Adrian shoots his straight so much?? Is it
because his long isn't very fast?? I'm being a tad sarcastic here..please
excuse me..:-) But seriously, his long is fast enough to beat anyone, yet
he still chooses to use the straight a lot. Another person off the top of
my head is Tom Yore. He uses the straight quite a bit as well. Horton does
too.
The straight may not be a shot that works very well on you, or even others.
And...I'm not saying that the straight is the best shot or should be the
main shot. I just believe it is an option that isn't utilized as much as it
could be.
> I still won't let the inside game beat me though,but your long better be
> extra speacial.
I would love to see about that. You just might be surprised. :-)
>Tell Laurette I said hello,I haven't seen her since she
> lived in Vegas.
Will do, Chuck. She has retired. :-( She hasn't played since Vegas this
year.
>Also I heard about your finals match in WD Texas,sounds
>like it was exciting.
It would have been more exciting if I had scored that last point. I'm
wondering if you mean WS...that was a pretty good one too...more than WD.
Take Care,
Moya
Pistol <den...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:6B0D550D8B9841D8...@xforum.forum...
>I do think it to be a filler,not a go ahead or winner shot.not to say it
>does'nt ever work,but when I play goal,it disheartens me if my foreward
>shoot a straight & misses it on meat ball,when he has a very high percentage
>pullshot. I am not at all bothered by missing that shot,at least there
>is a strong effort to win the game.[team pshycological factor] Do you see
>what I'm getting at?
Pete,
In many cases, a pullshooter has a high percentage pullshot because they read
a defense and anticipate the goalie's bait and switch scheme well. It is pure
folly to try to race a strong pull shooter since you can't react fast enough or
will just bail, leaving the straight open.
To be a successful pull shooter, you need to have a strong and accurate
straight option. That open-handed crap that you see some guys try or the old
"John Wayne" move won't cut it at the pro level either. A decent shooter
should be able to hit the straight hole fast and clean. To get a goalie to
open up the hole you have to have an unraceable long and middle. Establish the
long and you get more straights to open up. A really good pull shooter should
be able to pound the straight if even a glimmer of chrome shows on the 2 rod
(standard defense) if not a deadbar straight. A reverse defense is probably a
mistake on a good pull shooter in my opinion, unless you are really just
performing a bait and switch defense. A rolling pull cutback straight is more
of a novelty type shot that is more of a "I caught you not paying attention"
type shot.
Some of the best guys to watch for on a good straight are Adrian Zamora, Tom
Yore, Dave Gummeson, Tracy MacMillin (should use his long more than he does),
and Tom Spear. Todd Loffredo can do it all too but likes the straight on a
rolling pull the most :-)
Jim (Full-Ninja-Snap) McKenney
Jeez, I gotta proofread a little more ;-)
<SNAP>
In many cases, a pullshooter has a high percentage pullshot because
they read
a defense and anticipate the goalie's bait and switch scheme
well. J.M......................................................................................................................................
Well Jim I race a great pullshot well,how many time must I repeat that?
Now granted I don't just sit still & let them settle in their thoughts,I
work to make them think straight,because it is an easier[in my case]shot
to defend. But all the while I expect anything. That way I don't get caught
thinking I've convinced them. Sure I don't block everything all the time,who
does? But I do seem to block the most important shots during the course
of the game more than anyone around here,& seemingly everywhere I've been.
Getting credit for that is hard as a goalie,because no matter how good
a player I've beaten because of my defence,they always have an excuse why
they did'nt drill me.[big ego] But instead the after a match if credit
is offered,my foreward gets it,as if to insult me for shutting them down.
I'm sure their are some great goalies that know what I'm talking about.
I've been working on scoring from the back more often[less passig]because
I've lost some big matches due to the forewards lack of ability to put
a crucial point away & poor judgement on when he should switch. I agree
that there are several masters,pros,& experts that have amazing dinks,straights,&
middles that I will have to ajust to occasionally. I don't always shut
them down right away & need to see there style 1,2,maybe 3 times before
I start to block it,but I will block it before it's too late. I'm not a
young jumpy awestruck sucker in goal,I've learned to control my nerves
& stay focused on the ball. I just started posting on this newsgroup,I've
only read it in the past & did'nt really want to get caught up talking
about strategy,because I saw how many people throw there 2 cents in & the
problem of answering every Tom,Dick,& Harry that has a sarcastic opinion.[not
speaking of you] I know you Jim,but so far the only other person that I've
met is Gumby[it's been awhile] So I will probably not post here & just
go back to reading it occasionally.[I have no typing skills & this wears
me out]
I guess so....oopsie..my bad. :-)
Moya
This has nothing to do with your game personally, Pete. We were talking
about how a straight should be more utilized. That not enough people use it
as an option, which could help them win more matches. You personally don't
agree based on your own defense and that is totally fine, however no one
else has your defense. Like I said before...it may not work on you, but it
will work on a lot of other players.
Another thing...there's a lot more to shooting, than just scoring goals.
There is a whole lot of strategy involved. For example, sometimes it is a
good idea to shoot a straight, whether they are there or not, just to "keep
them honest" so to speak. (Of course you would do this at a inconsequential
point in the game.)
A forward generally is going to have a high percentage pull shot because
they have an array of accurate shots, they know how to read a defense and
time holes well. <insert Jim's post here> :-p A straight is one of those
shots that will open up a few other holes for the shooter.
Just as you think it is the easiest shot to block...I think it is the
easiest shot to time. If you know you can't leave that straight for one
second or it's gone..then there is a whole lot of net open to shoot at.
But...if someone doesn't ever attempt to shoot a straight, then the goalie
can feel a lot more confident about leaving it, which makes the net a whole
lot smaller.
>but I do think it to be a filler,not a go ahead or winner shot.
I disagree for reasons I have previously stated. I think it can be a great
time to use that shot, given your previous shot selection has set that up
for you.
>Do you see what I'm getting at?
I'm sure I must be missing something. :-)
>By the way,I was talking about you & Becky playing
> Cindy Head & Dawn Foust. I thought I heard that you were meat ball away
> from double dipping them!
Yes, that is true. It was a pretty intense match. Cindy and I's WS match
was much the same only match ball managed to find it's way into her net that
time.
Moya
Pistol <den...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:455202E4475F4C2B...@xforum.forum...
BTW As someone who has always hit the post on ANY pull short I try on
key balls, I can definitely attest to the importance of having one
when needed. (Of course I never was a forward anyways).
foosMEISTER
Gerry Meister
the foosMEISTER