Tornado/Valley has turned foosball into an exclusive, expensive hobby
Foosnut2
Tornado/Valley has put their 5 major tourneys well out of the reach of
the average player's economic means. I can't see the fact that they have
to have their series of tourneys in a plush hotel with average room rates
from $75. to $90 a night. These hotels are for large, expense-accounted
corporations. Frequently the hotel service is lax, you can't even get
extra towels w/out a 1 day notice, the food is usually quite expensive
(and in meager proportions), and the rates require sharing a room with an
outlandish amount of people just to be able to afford to eat and pay
quarters for matches. Christ, you have to pay quarters for a damn jukebox
now or there wouldn't be any music at all at one of their tournaments!
The USTSA fee of $25. is just a cash cow for Tornado and I don't even get
my Table Talk half of the time anyways. I don't benefit from the USTSA in
any way, nor does any other player I know.
Give me a chance of winning a reasonable amount of prize money for a
reasonable entry fee, a cheap yet clean room with reasonable food prices,
and the peace of mind knowing that I'm not going to run out of money
before the end of the tournament.
I am a local promoter here in Buffalo, N.Y. who has been playing
foosball for about 4 years now. I love this game tremendously (it has
outlasted several girlfriends) and do my best to teach and promote the
sport wherever there is a table to be found. Even if there is a competing
bar w/ a table I will go there and show the owner how to maintan it
properly. Anything for the game... I will continue
to promote the game here in western New York and support the promoters
throughout the northeast region of the country (usually at my own
expense). But I truly regret that this will year's World Championships
will be my last Tornado major tourney unless some big changes take
place...oh yeah, I should specify...POSITIVE changes.. take place.
I am the last player here in Buffalo to attend a Tornado sponsered
major and I am truly saddened by the fact that many of my friends
throughout the country also will not be attending this or any other
Tornado events in the future.
Tornado/Valley has priced me out of their major tournament series. I
cannot continue to play in these tourneys paying through the nose to play
on a national level when you have to win everything just in order to break
even. Coin play will kill this tour and much of the potential of further
tours.
I now am starting to question the validity of the major titles too.
This game has become so expensive that it is driving many of the
competitors away from touring. A championship now means that out of all
the players in the nation, only the ones who make a supreme financial
sacrifice have a chance to win. It has become an exclusionary hobby that
now fewer and fewer players can see spending money on.
Tornado/Valley have taken the FUN out of the game. I started playing
BECAUSE it is a fun game, but not on a national level any longer. I will
miss seeing all my friends throughout the country. Maybe I'll see them if
they go to Mary's tourneys... I am truly disheartened by this continued
lack of leadership in the Tornado/Valley regime.
farewell foosers,
Jim McKenney
(Full Ninja Snap)
Foos rky
more smaller tourneys in smaller city's and one or two big events a year
would = more players playing. the reason the whole thing is out of hand is
the overall greed of the big guys in managment. they dont care enough
about getting more people involved in foosball. try donating tables for
the youth to play on. get the product to market without charging more than
50 cents to play. the tables are built like tanks. its not like they need
constant repair. simple adjustments to create more interest could mean
many more players and that could = better payouts with less entry money
and less hotel stay and reducing the cost of feeding yourself. cmon
tornado dont let this sport die!!!!!!
Foosnut2
Hey Roger, I guess you'll have to stay in my room too. Let's see...that
makes six so far...
Bill D. Henderson
Lippydude wrote:
> And another thing, some of you got it righht some didnt. TS never went out
> business because of foosball. They spent hundreds of thousands on 8ball,
> darts, air hockey. There big $400,000 tournament in Chicago was there
> biggest foosball of all time. GET YOUR STORY RIGHT!!! the new games they
> develeped and the cost of it hurt them. It killed them at the same time
> because the video craze took off at the SAME TIME. Pacman gobbled up
> foosball!!! Dont make your stupid comments when you know nothing about it.
> Tornado was always SMALL POTATOES and still would be if not because of
> that. Tornado didnt earn the player base they INHERITED IT. Comments
> aybody? LIPPYDUDE
That is exactly right! Small Potatoes because of Ed. Ed McCloud milked
Tornado for all its was worth without taking on any "business" chances.
I don't blame him, it was his money. But, he did have the entire USA
foosball vending business fall into his lap. Look what we have now after
all these years!
The business grew some inspite of Ed. I am still amazed that Dave
Courington was able to do what he did with it... taking it from small
potatoes too well... it didn't fold up.
Seriously Dave did a good job considering the boss/company he worked
for.
Bill " Dead-man Potatoe ball shooter" Henderson
HiTeckie
It's sad, but true. I just competed in my first major tournement at the
Master's in Atlanta. To be perfectly honest, if my brother did'nt live in
Atlanta, I could never had justified attending. I spent well over $250 and
that did'nt include airfare, lodging or food (Thanks to my Bro). The whole
trip with airfare cost around $600 and again my brother footed the bill
for alot of my meals and, of course, the lodging. Don't get me wrong, the
experience was quite worthwhile, but I did'nt attend to win anything, I
just wanted to see what a major tournement was like and, what the hell... I
got to visit with my Bro. I'm just at a loss to see how the promoters
expect to instill enthusiasm in the sport if they price the major
tournements out of reach of the younger rookie players (you know, those
player's that go on to become semi-pro and, eventually, pro player's). It
would be interesting to see ifV alley is keeping track of how many rookie's
ever attend more than one major tournement. If I did'nt know better, I
would think that they are trying to make foosball into a prestige sport,
like golf or tennis. I tell you what... Next time you go to a major
Tornado tournement, count the number of people wearing 'slacks' and
country club sweaters. Sorry, Valley... It's a jeans and t-shirt crowd.
(Gee, I wonder if I can find a sponser for my next major tournement ...
mental note... call Lexus Corporation in the morning :) Let's get a grip,
and try to focus on where the vast majority of tables are located in the
world... Lets all close our eyes for a second... Can you smell the smoke
and hear the sounds of the band? Sorry, no leather covered bars and baby
grand piano. Only alot of working class people enjoying a beer and the
competition of other local foosers who most likely will have to get up
early tomorrow morning and go to work. Meanwhile, I've just decided to
try and attend this years world's. I've improved a little since the
Master's and maybe, if I can find a decent forward, I may win a trophie or
ribbon or something. Besides, I've heard that it's quite an event, and
from what everyone's been saying, willl be the last major foosball
tournement attended by a lot of the players. I think I'll see if I can
find a vender in Dallas to set up a couple of 25 cent tables in my room.. I
know I won't get alot of sleep, but what the hell, it'll help pay for the
trip.:)
Roger Morella
Buffalo, NY
PS I'm 34, make a decent living, and am single, therefore I have no
family to support. If it's too expensive for me, think how expensive it
must seem to the younger players who undoubtably are the future of the sport.
Lippydude
>Subject: Tornado/Valley has turned foosball into an exclusive, expensive
>hobby
>From: foos...@aol.com (Foosnut2)
>Date: 18 Aug 1997 02:08:16 GMT
>Message-ID: <19970818020...@ladder02.news.aol.com>
Yep thats how it is and it aint gonna change. Do you think Tornado doesnt
know this already? The big problem I see is NO COMMUNICATION between the
players and Tornado. WAKE UP THEY DONT WANT YOUR OPINION. They alredy know
these things. Its up to the local people to keep it live. Its sloooowly
dieing.
Lippydude
First, Tornado-Valley hasnt made foosball what it is today, the LOCAL
promoters & players have. All Tornado-Valley does is bring the circus to
town for a few tournaments, make money, leave. what have they done for you
LOCALLY? I must say they have better cheerleaders then NFL, Mary Grason,
Mike Archer, dradack, Tracey Hill. too name a few.
Eric Seger
Foos rky wrote in article <19970818053...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
Whats next... Admission to watch the play?
E <G>
DRadack
>Tornado was always SMALL POTATOES and still would be if not because of
>that. Tornado didnt earn the player base they INHERITED IT. Comments
>aybody? LIPPYDUDE
Considering maybe 10% of the current player base has ever even seen a
tournament soccer table i don't see how that can be an accurate statement.
Tornado was small potatoes and may still be.They've done nothing but grow
in players and prize money every year i've been playing. If you don't like
it don't come and i always have the utmost respect for someones opinions
when they don't even sign them.
-David
John Morse
On 18 Aug 1997 17:05:55 GMT, lipp...@aol.com (Lippydude) wrote:
>First, Tornado-Valley hasnt made foosball what it is today, the LOCAL
>promoters & players have. All Tornado-Valley does is bring the circus to
>town for a few tournaments, make money, leave. what have they done for you
>LOCALLY? I must say they have better cheerleaders then NFL, Mary Grason,
>Mike Archer, dradack, Tracey Hill. too name a few.
Gimme a break....You've left out Tom Spear.... Have you ever seen the
way he dresses half the time...WOW!!! Any where from rock crystals
the size of your fists hangin from his neck, to the tongues of his
tennis shoes ripped out to the size 7 baggy checker board pants.
Auuuhhh, maybe I'm being to harsh...all in all, he's OK...I guess...
>
>And another thing, some of you got it righht some didnt. TS never went out
>business because of foosball. They spent hundreds of thousands on 8ball,
>darts, air hockey. There big $400,000 tournament in Chicago was there
>biggest foosball of all time. GET YOUR STORY RIGHT!!! the new games they
>develeped and the cost of it hurt them. It killed them at the same time
>because the video craze took off at the SAME TIME. Pacman gobbled up
>foosball!!! Dont make your stupid comments when you know nothing about it.
>Tornado was always SMALL POTATOES and still would be if not because of
>that. Tornado didnt earn the player base they INHERITED IT. Comments
>aybody? LIPPYDUDE
John Morse
PC/UNIX Administrator
Symbios Logic - Ft. Collins, CO
john....@symbios.com
Lippydude
>Subject: Re: Tornado/Valley has turned foosball into an exclusive,
expensive
>hobby
>From: dra...@aol.com (DRadack)
>Date: 19 Aug 1997 00:49:38 GMT
>Message-ID: <19970819004...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
>
> >Tornado was always SMALL POTATOES and still would be if not because of
>>that. Tornado didnt earn the player base they INHERITED IT. Comments
>>aybody? LIPPYDUDE
>
>tournament soccer table i don't see how that can be an accurate
statement.
>Tornado was small potatoes and may still be.They've done nothing but grow
>in players and prize money every year i've been playing. If you don't
like
>it don't come and i always have the utmost respect for someones opinions
>when they don't even sign them.
>
>-David
>
you fail to know the TS players went to Dynamo then went to tornado after
a merger of player asociations. Jonny Lott kept it going but changed the
Dynamo table to much. Then Kathy Brainerd took over and merged wityh
Courington. The asociation has been taken over by the tornado company
which had no right to do that. I would sign my name but learned from the
mistakes of Mike and Kathy Warman and Charles Macintosh that IF YOU SOUND
OFF YOU GET CUT OFF. Where have you been dradack? get back inside Links
pocket and dont come out till he tells you. you do not know the history of
foosball. you only might know foosball in Texas acording to tornado. Oh
yes, the player base might been expanding but not these days. wait till
next year it will be worse. the lippydude knows what youll never know.
I have the inside info that you lack.
DRadack
>my name but learned from the
>mistakes of Mike and Kathy Warman and Charles Macintosh that IF YOU SOUND
>OFF YOU GET CUT OFF. Where have you been dradack? get back inside Links
>pocket and dont come out till he tells you. you do not know the history
of
>foosball. you only might know foosball in Texas acording to tornado. Oh
>yes, the player base might been expanding but not these days. wait till
>next year it will be worse. the lippydude knows what youll never know.
>I have the inside info that you lack.
How can you expect anyone to believe anythign you say if you don't sign
your name. Charles seems not to be cut off, as far as why Cathy and Mike
aren't around it has nothing to do with Tornado thats for sure. Please you
claim to know all the inside info, but alot of people claim to know alot
of stuff. Put up or shut up.
DRadack
>From: buck...@aol.com (Buckfoos)
>Date: 20 Aug 1997 04:17:51 GMT
>Message-ID: <19970820041...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
>
>Dave get back in Tornado's pocket
As chris takes time away from his pro master "worship" to chime in. It's
not polite to talk with your mouth full.
Blake Irwin
Lippydude wrote:
> I would sign my name but learned from the
> mistakes of Mike and Kathy Warman and Charles Macintosh that IF YOU
> SOUND
> OFF YOU GET CUT OFF.
For someone who claims to know SO much, you certainly know so little.
Mike and Kathy leaving had nothing to do with Tornado, Link or Dave.
Buckfoos
Dave get back in Tornado's pocket .
Buckfoos
You suck up so good you are giving Link a enima!!!!!!!!!
GUMBY93
Hey Liphead, You say you won't give your name out because your worried
about being cutoff/banned or whatever by Tornado/Valley yet in one of your
other posts you say you don't play anymore. Don't you remember what you
write from one day to the next? And if you don't play then who cares if
Tornado/Valley knows who you are? Or is there another reason? I've been
around the game for a long time too and don't agree with everything being
done but whats the sense coming off like some bitter jerk? Maybe thats why
you don't want people to know who you are? So you can say whatever you
want and nobody will know where it came from. I personally feel if you
have anything important to say then sign your name.
David Gummeson
PRtY1MN
>From: gum...@aol.com (GUMBY93)
>Date: 21 Aug 1997 06:07:06 GMT
>Message-ID: <19970821060...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
WTG. Dave.. That is exactly what I think. Lippy or Horton as I somehow
think, is just a little bitter and feels like bitching.. What a scaredy
cat... I have complaints to, I just know where to take them..
Mary Grayson
Not sure who Lippydude is but I sure would like to know who's telling me
that I'm not in control of my own thoughts and incapable of making my own
judgments since as a "cheerleader" I must be being controlled by Tornado.
I write for Table Talk to get the women more focus, which I've done. As
far as cheerleading for Tornado, I think I've made maybe four posts ever
on this thing and I get put on that list? Gee, I must have said something
positive. Silly me. Lemme see, if I agree w/ you and joint the hate wagon
then mabye I'd be reputable and worthy in your eyes. They usually say
those so defensive are the ones that are weak and scared. What are you so
scared of Lippydude, so scared that you can't let people say their thoughts
without attacking them.
And Chris Buck? Don't worry Chris - I'm sure with your arrogance, delusion
over your talent and intellect and vast capacity for insulting your fellow
players, I'm sure it'll get you far in your foosball game as it will earn
you respect.
Thank god for the nice guys in the sport (jeepster, swanny, gummie, terry,
King Louie, etc.) - they give the new players hope as opposed to the rest
of you pissed off losers.
>
Y0UR WEAK
If you Losers would spend as much time practicing Foosball as you do
whining about why you don't win and why your not getting any
money!...............then you might have a chance to get some cash. $$
But it won't happen because you suck and I will keep whippin' Ya like
I've been doing. !
L W
DRadack
>Come on now Mary, that's not fair. You must admit Buck talks a good game.
>Why if Buck could put his lips on the rods he'd never lose another game
in
>his life!! HAHAHAHA. See you at World's. d:)
>
>Steve
Oh come on Steve! He already puts his lips on the rods. That's the only
reason you guys tolerate him....
Mackintsoh Games
DRadack wrote:
>
> >my name but learned from the
> >mistakes of Mike and Kathy Warman and Charles Macintosh that IF YOU SOUND
> >pocket and dont come out till he tells you. you do not know the history
> of
> >foosball. you only might know foosball in Texas acording to tornado. Oh
> >yes, the player base might been expanding but not these days. wait till
> >next year it will be worse. the lippydude knows what youll never know.
> >I have the inside info that you lack.
>
> How can you expect anyone to believe anythign you say if you don't sign
> your name. Charles seems not to be cut off, as far as why Cathy and Mike
> aren't around it has nothing to do with Tornado thats for sure. Please you
> claim to know all the inside info, but alot of people claim to know alot
> of stuff. Put up or shut up.
Mr. Radack,
In case you haven't noticed, Charles is cut off from the tour! I have
been since resigning as operations manager to return to my route in
1990. What was a vested interest in TPI was stripped by Ed to include
loss of Head official status, position on tour staff, and of course the
meager monetary benefits that went along it. Now, be sure that I still
have continued in foosball with MY route, bought with MY money and run
by ME ALONE. I am thankful that Tornado/Valley has allowed me to
continue in business. After all, my reputation in promotions speaks for
itself, and maybe Valley appreciates that. I know Brady distributing
does.
Have a nice day,:)
Charles Mackintosh
Lippydude
>Subject: Re: Tornado/Valley has turned foosball into an exclusive,
expensive
>hobby
>Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 14:44:23 -0700
>Message-ID: <33FCB6...@concentric.net>
>
>THE WALLIE wrote:
>>
>> In the mists of all of the trash talking, one of you brought up a good
>> point. How did Tornado get to own the USTSA? Somehow, it went from
being
>> an independant player assoc. to being owned by Tornado/ Valley. Did
Kathy
>> sell it? Did Lou Salkind sell it? I know that if it was an independant
>> players assoc., then you and I should have voted on whether or not it
>> should have been sold. I did not sell it.
>>
>> And as for the main topic, your right touring has become way too
>> expensive. Almost unafforable. Only by uniting the players can we
change
>> that.
>>
>> My name signed in full
>>
>> Brian King
>
>
>Just for the record, Kathy did not sell.
>She just no longer owned,
>and that is all I have to say 'bout that =)
>Shelly
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Now Blake Irwin should read that cause he dont know nothing. Read between
the lines BlaKE. gEt wiTh tHE prOGRAm the lippy one knows these things.
Lippydude
>Subject: Re: Tornado/Valley has turned foosball into an exclusive,
expensive
>hobby
>Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 15:03:36 -0700
>Message-ID: <33FB69B8...@cncx.com>
>
>Lippydude wrote:
>
>> I would sign my name but learned from the
>> mistakes of Mike and Kathy Warman and Charles Macintosh that IF YOU
>> SOUND
>> OFF YOU GET CUT OFF.
>
>Mike and Kathy leaving had nothing to do with Tornado, Link or Dave.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Mike and Kathy had there reasons for leaving Tornado temporary but when
they tried to return what happen then brain surgeon, CUT OFF, NOT NEEDED
ANYMORE> they were forced out . you know nothing Blake. another imposter
you are who thinks they know but dont. restudy youre facts loser
KKeeler275
i`, Sorry to tell you all.but the tornado table is the best one ever
made.even though the bamk shot is dead,there is more and better action on
that kind of table than on all the rest of them that was made before them!
Everybody knows that valley is rippimg us all off with the quarter plat
during the tournaments but hey.there aren`t any other people promoting
major tournaments! so quit complaining about it and lets all get together
and do someting about it!!!!!
Boycot a major and lets see how much money they lose then maybe they will
see what the players are talking about!!!!!!!
starl...@gmail.com
My name is Erica Warman and I am the daughter of Cathy and Mike Warman. I am not sure if anyone will see this or know them or remember a small child running around tournaments in the 90's era but I am desperate at this point. After much internet search this is the only time my mothers name is brought up in the foosball history. I am looking for anyone who knew my mother and might have any info to the people she knew from this part of her life and any memorabilia and pictures of this time in our lives. I would also like to add that I have no idea how google+ works so if there is someone with info on a better way to send this message out. Please email me at Starl...@gmail.com. Thank you.
On Wednesday, August 20, 1997 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, DRadack wrote:
> >my name but learned from the
> >mistakes of Mike and Kathy Warman and Charles Macintosh that IF YOU SOUND
noblenot...@gmail.com
> DRadack wrote:
> >
> > >my name but learned from the
> > >mistakes of Mike and Kathy Warman and Charles Macintosh that IF YOU SOUND
> > >OFF YOU GET CUT OFF. Where have you been dradack? get back inside Links
> > >pocket and dont come out till he tells you. you do not know the history
> > of
> > >foosball. you only might know foosball in Texas acording to tornado. Oh
> > >yes, the player base might been expanding but not these days. wait till
> > >next year it will be worse. the lippydude knows what youll never know.
> > >I have the inside info that you lack.
> >
> > How can you expect anyone to believe anythign you say if you don't sign
> > your name. Charles seems not to be cut off, as far as why Cathy and Mike
> > aren't around it has nothing to do with Tornado thats for sure. Please you
> > claim to know all the inside info, but alot of people claim to know alot
> > of stuff. Put up or shut up.
>
> In case you haven't noticed, Charles is cut off from the tour! I have
> been since resigning as operations manager to return to my route in
> 1990. What was a vested interest in TPI was stripped by Ed to include
> loss of Head official status, position on tour staff, and of course the
> meager monetary benefits that went along it. Now, be sure that I still
> have continued in foosball with MY route, bought with MY money and run
> by ME ALONE. I am thankful that Tornado/Valley has allowed me to
> continue in business. After all, my reputation in promotions speaks for
> itself, and maybe Valley appreciates that. I know Brady distributing
> does.
>
> Have a nice day,:)
> Charles Mackintosh