Women foosball players
Timothy D. Polk, M.D.
I noticed that Cindy Head won Open singles in Alabama in what I assume
was a very tough field. This would tend to support the notion that
foosball offers no advantage to one sex over the other. Yet when I
spoke with female foosers in my state (Maryland) I was told the
opposite. These Maryland women (rookies) had competed against some of
the top ranked women nationally and told me that they were not as good
as I had assumed they were. They explained that by doing well in
women's only events, one could amass a lot of points/high rating.
Nevertheless, they thought that significantly lower rated men (i.e. good
semi-pros) could probably beat them.
In most other sports, men have the advantage because of increased size,
strength, and usually speed. I've heard that women often have better
dexterity than men perhaps giving them an advantage in foosball. I've
always assumed that the reason there are more highly ranked men than
women is because there are more male foosers in general.
What are the groups thoughts?
Tim "Yes women have kicked my ass plenty" Polk
Mike Archer
As a general rule, women are not as good as men in any physical sport,
period. You saying that women were supposedly more dexterious than men
is the first I have ever heard of it. Men are stronger and faster in
pretty much every way - period. Women can master the mental aspects of
the game, but that will only go so far when you can get straight raced
on the three, or you miss all the quick pickups that the guy across from
you is getting.
That said, Cindy is a pretty amazing player. She far beyond almost
every other women I have played against in sheer aggression. She has no
fear, and even though her skills shooting wise might be less than her
opponents, she has pretty good rod speed and normally kills opponents
with her speed and quick shots.
All in all, the best male player should always beat the best female
player. That's life. In practice, women can beat men, and mixed teams
in open events have done well in the past. All women teams pretty much
just compete for the highest placing female cash, although Moya and
Laurette did make it to I believe 9th a few years ago, although that was
never repeated (granted, I don't think Moya played since then, although
I could be wrong).
Frankly, I was shocked when I saw that Cindy won singles in Alabama.
She must have been playing offly well. Just as a side note (and I do
*not* intend this to take away from Cindy's win, but merely to clear up
another point you made), there was no one in I believe the top 30 at
that tournament. There were good players, and it looked like a tough
field, but none of the top names you see touring were there.
Finally, the women you spoke with were correct. Most good male
semi-pros could probably beat most of the better women pros, although
there are a few notable exceptions.
Mike
In article <382B03...@erols.com>,
--
- Mike Archer
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
foo...@my-deja.com
OOPSULOST
>From: "Timothy D. Polk, M.D." <po...@erols.com>
>Date: Thu, 11 November 1999 12:56 PM EST
>How good are women foosball players?
{snip}
>What are the groups thoughts?
>
>Tim "Yes women have kicked my ass plenty" Polk
Tim,
I live near Seattle and we, coincidentally, happen to have quite a few
extremely talented female fooserball players in the area, i.e. Kathy Brainard,
Chris Brazel, Lotus Cheseboro, Laurette Gunther, Stepanie Ohashi, Julie
Simms-O'Halloran, Moya Theilens(sp?) etc. These women have dozens of major
titles between them. Consequently, I learned a LONG time ago not to
underestimate anyone on the table male, female, if you know them or not. Most
of these women are masters of the finesse game. Where they may be lacking in
power, they more than make up for in table smarts.
Congratulations to Cindy on a big win in Alabama, and to her "Triple" at
Worlds.
Kevin Munro
Todd Thomas, CPC, CCS-P
Worlds ( a feat only ever done once before......It was Cindy that time also)
we discussed how she might compare to the males in the sport. We wondered
how she performed in Open events or if she even played OS at any of the
majors. Then after reading the newest Table Talk we again had much of the
same discussions.
For those that don't get TT, since 1982 Cindy has won 30 count'em 30 world
titles. 12 women's doubles, 4 mixed doubles and 14 women's singles
(including 9 straight wins). That's one hell of a record in any kind of
competition.
Strictly looking at stats Cindy is easily the best player ever. As world
titles go Todd comes in second with 14. But as Mike said, in any physical
contest the best male would probably beat the best female. Comparing a
males game to a females game is comparing two different styles of play.
It's like asking who is the better basketball player Michael Jordan or Wilt
Chamberlain. Or who is a better boxer Tyson or Ali. The styles of play are
different for these players so there is no way that we can proclaim a better
of the two.
And I too live in an area (Oklahoma) with high ranking women players (5 of
the top 25 women are Okies). I am a rookie but I have beaten Diane Park
(pro) in goalie wars and Kathey Richey (pro) in a doubles event at OK state
. But have also lost to the same two ladies in matches also. I have seen 2
local rookie women draw each other in a DYP and beat some formidable teams.
Boy vs. girl, men vs. women, male vs. female is the battle of the ages and
will go on forever.
Turbo
Mike Archer <mar...@advparadigm.com> wrote in message
news:80fdth$fmu$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > How good are women foosball players?
> >
> > I noticed that Cindy Head won Open singles in Alabama in what I assume
> > was a very tough field. This would tend to support the notion that
> > foosball offers no advantage to one sex over the other. Yet when I
> > spoke with female foosers in my state (Maryland) I was told the
> > opposite. These Maryland women (rookies) had competed against some of
> > the top ranked women nationally and told me that they were not as good
> > as I had assumed they were. They explained that by doing well in
> > women's only events, one could amass a lot of points/high rating.
> > Nevertheless, they thought that significantly lower rated men (i.e.
> good
> > semi-pros) could probably beat them.
> >
> > In most other sports, men have the advantage because of increased
> size,
> > strength, and usually speed. I've heard that women often have better
> > dexterity than men perhaps giving them an advantage in foosball. I've
> > always assumed that the reason there are more highly ranked men than
> > women is because there are more male foosers in general.
> >
> > What are the groups thoughts?
> >
> > Tim "Yes women have kicked my ass plenty" Polk
> >
>
> --
> - Mike Archer
Rodney Jenkins
Timothy D. Polk, M.D. wrote in message <382B03...@erols.com>...
>How good are women foosball players?
>
>I noticed that Cindy Head won Open singles in Alabama in what I assume
>was a very tough field.
The top three finishers in Open Singles were women!
HeHeHe!
Just kidding!
Couldn't pass that up.
Rodney Jenkins
Rodney Jenkins
Rodney Jenkins
Rodney Jenkins
Rodney Jenkins
Timothy D. Polk, M.D. wrote in message <382B03...@erols.com>...
>How good are women foosball players?
>
>I noticed that Cindy Head won Open singles in Alabama in what I assume
>was a very tough field.
The top three finishers in Open Singles were women!
HeHeHe!
Just kidding, couldn't pass that up.
Rodney Jenkins
Rodney Jenkins
Sorry about all the same message posts.
My PC and I had a wrestling match yesturday.
Rodney Jenkins wrote in message ...
PMGoffJr
>Wow!
>Sorry about all the same message posts.
>My PC and I had a wrestling match yesturday.
Well, we certainly know who won, don't we?
Apparently a female bot with a attitude.
foo...@my-deja.com
women. Of course you can compare the 2, you just throw Tommy, Frederico,
Todd, or any other top player in the pits against the women in a game of
singles, and see who dominates. You can see who is better the exact same
way you'd see 2 males as better. Cindy's record is indeed incredible,
and her game is phenomenal too, but I think the word "Open" is the key
here.
Rodney Jenkins
since she and I are from the same area. I've known Cindy for a long time,
I've watched her play, I've played against her, and I've also teamed with
her, many times in the past. Cindy is sometimes hard to get along with, in
fact, sometimes she gets under my skin about as fast as anybody I can think
of in the foosball circuit; nevertheless, Cindy is an incredible and
outstanding foosball player. My comments now:
Cindy has been playing and competing foosball for a very long time, and like
many of us that have been pounding pull shots(etc.) for over 20 years, she
suffers from overuse-tendonitis, which can, and does severely effect
necessary flexibility in the wrist and arm mechanics involved in shooting
wrist action shots.
Todd Leffrado defined retirement in one of his post recently. Under Todds
definition, Cindy retired from foosball many years ago. There was a period
when Cindy only came out locally to play once or twice before each World
Championships. I could never understand how she could maintain her skill
level with so little tournament exposure. Eventually, approximately two
years ago, her lack of table time began to show as her five-row skills began
to suffer(her major strong point).
"Can a women compete against a man in this sport?" was the question asked in
this thread.
During the past 15 years, I've been to most of the Tour events, I've watched
all the top competitors battleing for championship titles. During this
time, it is my opinion, that there has not been a better skilled forward
with a more effective five-row than Cindy Head. In other words, I have not
seen a forward, while competing against the top players, more effective on
the five-row, passing and/or picking up the ball than (female)Cindy Head.
I've watched Cindy play Todd Leffrado, Terry Moore, Tommy Atkinson, Johnny
Horton, Steve Murray, and many more, whether or not Cindy was able to get
the ball in the goal enough to win the match, most often times Cindy was
superior on the five-roll battle.
It's true that Cindy does not possess the 3-roll shooting weapons of the top
players, but she has other skills and strengths that have not been matched
by the same.
I use to play goal for Cindy a lot several years ago during competition in
the Southeast. Her agressive style and defensive skills make her easy to
play goal for. She has stuffed more goalies than anyone that I ever saw.
Notice also, how she stares at the center of the table when her goalie is
shooting the ball. You only have to clear the defensive 3-roll, if the ball
hits the opponents 5-roll, she most often picks it up and sends it the rest
of the way down the table. (I'm right the opposite, if my goalie sends the
ball into the defensive 5-roll, it's usually a turn-over, it gets past my
5-roll before I can react.)
Over the years, Cindy has had her days against some of the top male foosball
players in Open Doubles competition, usually teamed with less that a pro
partner. Maybe not during a Tour event, but she holds many impressive state
titles in Open Doubles competition. For example, I can't remember right off
what year, but I watched her win Open Doubles in New Orleans (Louisianna
State), with several of the top players in attendance. She & Darby Rousau
beat Tracy McMillan & Mark Snyder (the defending state champs that year).
She also won in Georgia one time playing with Lane Kimbrell against Johnny
Horton and- I can't remember who. There are many other events as well.
Cindy has a tremendous competitive spirit and drive to win. She will out
hussle you on the table as her skills will allow her to continue sending the
ball toward your goal, usually more often than the ball goes toward her
goal. If you're skilled enough to block a high percentage of her attempts,
you'll do ok against her, but if your not, she'll beat you, no matter male
or female(or what rank for that matter).
So whether you like Cindy or not(sometimes rrrrrruhg!), you have to give her
credit for what she is. She is one of the best to ever play this game.
If one of the current top male players possessed talents of Cindy Head in
addition to their own, we would likely see a dominant player. Or, if Cindy
had a shot like Robert Mares. That's to scarey to think about.
I must admitt that I was surprised that Cindy won Open Singles against the
players that were in attendance at the Alabama State. I was discussing with
David Radack at the start of open singles about the fact that her ranking on
tour made her the number one seed at our event, and the fact that I felt
that to be a flaw in tour rankings. I was telling David that I felt that
women should be ranked on tour as how they would compare in skill level to
the male players. I explained that during womens events the rank
classification for women could be altered. For example, during womens
events women rated 1500 and above are pro instead of 1800, and the same for
the other catagories.
Then Cindy goes and wins open singles against a feild of several pro's and a
couple of pro-master players. Shot my opinion right out the door. Sorry!
Well, at our World's warmup I beleive it was, Cindy got put out of Open
Singles by a local rookie, Tom Farley. I think Tom is the lowest rated
player in the tour book.
Hmmm!
Rodney Jenkins
Timothy D. Polk, M.D. wrote in message <382B03...@erols.com>...
>How good are women foosball players?
>
>I noticed that Cindy Head won Open singles in Alabama in what I assume
>was a very tough field. This would tend to support the notion that
Ed Willis
great Cindy played. She is a very good player and when she is at the top of
her game she can beat any male on the tour. She has such natural talent not
unlike Todd Laffredo(sp?). I watched her play and was amazed at how quick
she was and like Rodney said she is always thinking ahead. She would watch
how her opponent was switching back and fourth and what holes they left open
and she would then score on them before they could get back to there goalie
to defend. I really think she is the best women's player I have ever seen. I
have watched Cindy play all the way back to the 1985 Dynamo World
Championships and have admired ever since then.
Just my opinion I know other people will not agree with me.
Rodney Jenkins wrote in message ...
OOPSULOST
>From: Mike Archer <mar...@advparadigm.com>
>Date: Thu, 11 November 1999 04:53 PM EST
{snip}
>All in all, the best male player should always beat the best female
>player. That's life. In practice, women can beat men, and mixed teams
>in open events have done well in the past. All women teams pretty much
>just compete for the highest placing female cash, although Moya and
>Laurette did make it to I believe 9th a few years ago, although that was
>never repeated (granted, I don't think Moya played since then, although
>I could be wrong).
>
>Frankly, I was shocked when I saw that Cindy won singles in Alabama.
>She must have been playing offly well. Just as a side note (and I do
>*not* intend this to take away from Cindy's win, but merely to clear up
>another point you made), there was no one in I believe the top 30 at
>that tournament. There were good players, and it looked like a tough
>field, but none of the top names you see touring were there.
>
>- Mike Archer
Mike,
You may be correct that there were no players in the top 30 in Alabama, but
that can also imply that there are only a couple dozen men in the world who are
"better" than Cindy. I think THAT is incredible in and of itself. And if this
is true, it is possible and likely that there are women out there who don't
play foosball, but happen to be stronger, faster and have more natural talent
than Cindy. So where does that leave us? A woman with the potential to
compete with the top five. I realize that this is purely hypothetical, but it
is possible just the same.
Kevin Munro
Cptm
Major Tournament. I saw her play 15-16 years ago in St. Louis, and this past
year..she is good, but not as good as top men.
Pat Myers
Columbus, Ohio
RStolz32
>
any women with the experience,competitiveness,skill,speed,5 line passing,5 line
shooting and 2 row shooting that Cindy Head has can beat anyone in the world at
any time BUT can she win something like masters singles NO WAY.........
PMGoffJr
> Most good male
>semi-pros could probably beat most of the better women pros, although
>there are a few notable exceptions.
>
>Mike
I have read all of the posts about this subject, and while they are all
well-meaning I'm sure, most are just a little off the mark.
I have no doubt that Cindy Head is a great player (gender excluded) I watched
several of her matches at worlds, and she certainly is enthusiastic.
Is she the best female ever? Umm, no, not really. After watching both at
their best, I will still say that Lori Schranz is/was a better player over all.
Lori won world titles on several different tables, I believe her first
Tornado nationals was when she was maybe sixteen or seventeen. Her dominance of
womens events was phenominal, I believe her and Karen Gilliland were undefeted
for a span of several years, over a course of maybe thirty tournaments.
She was more than capable on either end of the table, and her skills were a
match for any player, at any time.
Her greatest attribute, in my opinion, was her total professionalism, she
conducted herself in a very quiet, businesslike way, while she cut your heart
out and fed it to you.
I still remember the first time I saw her play, this little bitty girl,
playing with this wild looking red headed guy with glasses from (gulp)
Minnesota, beating the hell out of all my hero Texacins at the Tornado
nationals in 1977. (That wild looking guy was Jim Wiswell)
Anyway, it's just a opinion, but maybe a little wider one.
Pat
Amy Powers
I was reading your post and I just had to get my two cents in since I haven't
seen one women reply so far. You can agree with me or not, but as a women on
tour this is how I feel about the issue.
It seems to me that you are missing two very important points.
1) It was said that a good semipro male will beat your average pro women. This
is true, but the reason is not because men are generally the dominant players.
It is because women can move up to pro faster then men, since we can play in
more events. A women at any tourney can play in WS, WD, WRD, WRS (while she is
still a Rookie), and OM ( for sure if she wants to) and we still haven't even
tried RD, SD etc. I mean it is easier for us to move up quickly, because we
have more chances the earn points. Many pro women are really semipro ability
overall when compared to the average foosball player. I'm not trying to put
down touring women pro's at all. Many of them are very talented.
2) In the original thread, it was mentioned that there are more male players
than female. No one else even addressed the issue. It is easy to say that in
general guys will beat girls when the guys far out number the girls. I mean,
we are minority here. There are a lot more players who are male. Logically it
makes sense that a guy will usually beat a girl. There are more men to choose
from. What about all the weak guy players there are? It shouldn't be the
difference between men and women. We are all just foosball players. I know
that most of you will not agree and that's OK, but this is how I see it. I was
watching that match in Open Doubles at the worlds, where Moya and Laurette were
playing and in that match Moya shot and passed as well as any other player (and
notice that I say player, not guy). She played awesome. To say that men are
generally the dominant players is unfair. Lets compare her to the weakest male
player and say that women are superior. Would that be fair? No. Oh course
not. There are more guys to choose from, which is why most men outpower women.
What if there was an equal number of guys and girls? Do you still think that
the male would overpower the female in general? Maybe, Maybe not. Just food
for thought. Right or wrong.
BTW As far as Todd always beating Cindy, I'm not convinced that this is true.
Todd may be better, but that isn't because he's male. Todd is Todd. He's
awesome. I'd say that Todd is that superior at that style of game, where as
Cindy is superior at different style (that many women use) which can be just as
effective. They are both great foosball players and we could all learn a lot
from either of them.
Bruce Nardoci
keep a woman from becoming as good as a man at foosball. After all, it
doesn't take a great deal of strength to move a foosball rod (that's
what silicone is for, at least for most women ;-), and with the advent
of the rollover shot its easy to hit the ball hard/fast even if you're
not very strong.
Women, I assume, have about equal reflexes and concentration to men. I
don't agree that equal time spent playing/practicing foosball and equal
competition results in equal players - there are some intangibles
involved such as innate talent etc. (there are plenty of basketball
players in the world who put in as much time as anybody practicing who
never make the NBA). But, as far as I know, there's no reason a woman
couldn't have the innate talent either.
What I do think women lack, in general, is the aggressiveness that most
men have, which is important to becoming a top player. That doesn't mean
that there couldn't be women who have that aggressiveness (Cindy Head
comes to mind). My opinion for the reason there aren't any women at the
very top of the sport is a
combination of the lack of aggressiveness and the much smaller player
base of women overall. But I do think there's the potential for a woman
to be every bit as good as a man.
Cptm
you said lets compare her to the weakest male players? That is not the point,
people on here were saying she was a good as the Dominate male players, and she
is not. The people that believe she is that good, said nothing about hte weak
players, of course she could beat the weak players. I have seen you and many
other women beat men. But she is not as good as MANY men players, regardless
of her record.
I am not degrading female players, but there is a definite difference at the
higher levels.
Pat Myers
Amy Powers
I hope that you don't get the wrong idea from my post. I was never offended
by anything that was said here.
I agree with Bruce that many women lack that aggressiveness that most men seem
to have. (Or maybe just the ability to turn it on when needed). I think
that it is an important factor in the difference between men and women players.
I just thought that it would be good to sort of turn the other cheek and state
the other side of the story for a while.
I really wanted people to understand the first point about it being easier for
women to gain points then men. That is an important issue right now and we
need to think about our ranking system.
I almost took out that point about Moya, because I thought that it might be
unclear. I was just trying to show that a women can be as talented as a top
man at this sport. It is not impossible whether you believe it or not. I
think that you misunderstand what I was trying to say. I only said lets
compare her to the weakest male players to try to make a point. Since there
are more men in general, it makes sense that the top players are male because
there are more men. I'm a computer science major and I guess I think of
everything in terms of numbers and probabilities. Since there are more men, it
is more likely that the top player would be a man. That's what I meant.
Comparing a good female player to weak male player was just an example of poor
logic that I using to try to make a point. She's not as good as MANY men
players OK, but at the same time she is better then MANY men players and it
wouldn't be fair to say that women are superior just because she is better than
MANY male players. If you made this conclusion you would have missed the fact
that MANY men are better than her. That's what I meant. I was trying to show
that to make a conclusion as to why something is the way it is, you must
consider all the facts. I shouldn't have used her as an example. I don't mean
to insult her in any way. I found that match inspiring. I think it was a bad
example. Besides who's to say that in the future she wouldn't become one of
the top players on tour? It isn't impossible ya know. ;-)
BTW I'm not saying that there isn't a difference between men and women at the
higher levels. I agree that there is. I was only saying that there maybe more
reasons for this than the obvious ones and that at some point in time this
might change.
Good posts.
sloppyfoos
>What I do think women lack, in general, is the aggressiveness that most
>men have, which is important to becoming a top player.
What exactly do you mean by aggressive? I can clearly see Jonny Horton or
Tommy Adkisson as aggressive players, but what about Dave Gummeson or
Fredrico? Would they be considered aggressive? I see them both taking their
time, sometimes passing from their 2 bar to their 5 bar, and playing at a
steady, controlled pace.
Mendel
I have a few minutes to write here ,so I'll chuck in my 3cents
yea thats right my opinion is worth more than 2 cents:)
I have helped many women learn to play foos and first off I say that I
think girls could compete at any level but they have alot to over come
to do it.
First thing I have found is that because of there wider hips it is
harder for them to develop a fast smooth pullshot it takes most guys a
few years with alot of practice time.
Second thing is most girls just don't have the patience or the desire
to put the effort forward to learn.
third and last I think is that because of the fewer # of women players
they cannot talk to each other to share ideas and techniques to help
each other and find out what it does take to get good.
I had taught my ex April If you look in the book you will see she got up
pretty high in points so I feel I could teach ANY girl who wants to
learn to be one of the best women out there!
Greg Mendel
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Paul M. Clark
about "rag shots" or if I block their shots! The women that I've played
against like Maggie,Dusty,Loreene,Vicky,Mrs.D.C. and other women pro's
have taught me alot,from playing front and back.And there ain't nothing
to pass a ball and to shoot it,when it comes to men or women,there is
still one out of three holes open.What Tornado(Valley) did by seperating
the women from the men ,"that some of the men were worried the women
would beat the men"? <--My thoughts.
PMC
Mike Archer
somewhere, there MIGHT be a woman better than Cindy who MIGHT be able to
compete with the top 5." That's getting pretty far out there, no? And
I never said Cindy could not compete with the top 5. I think she has
probably given almost every player out there a run for their money at
one time or another. My point was to address the other fellow's
question about the average female player.
Even in addressing your point, if you want to go theoretical, if you
search high and low for the women that has more talent than Cindy and
train her to play, then you would have to do the same for the male side
as well. We have really good players in the top 5 now, but who is to
say what would happen if we searched high and low? Basically, by
definition of the differences between the sexes, your best man is still
bigger, faster and stronger than your best woman.
Mike
In article <19991112201257...@ng-co1.aol.com>,
--
- Mike Archer
Mike Archer
because I feel that they can all be summarized into one reply.
It does not matter if there were 50 women to every 1 man playing this
game. All things being equal, the men would still win in an open
competition. This isn't my opinion, this has been proven by sports
history over the last 100 years or so. Name ANY other physical sport
where women compete on a level playing ground with men? Name ANY other
sport where the average woman's statistics (be it speed, power, stamina,
strength, etc.) are not lower than the average man's? This is a
physical fact....women are the weaker sex physically. Mentally I would
place men and women on a level playing field. Foosball is no different
than anything else.
Certainly the best women can beat the weaker guys...goes without saying.
The point was really about averages and the best players, not about the
worst.
Mike
In article <19991114124924...@ng-fx1.aol.com>,
the
> difference between men and women. We are all just foosball players.
I know
> that most of you will not agree and that's OK, but this is how I see
it. I was
> watching that match in Open Doubles at the worlds, where Moya and
Laurette were
> playing and in that match Moya shot and passed as well as any other
player (and
> notice that I say player, not guy). She played awesome. To say that
men are
> generally the dominant players is unfair. Lets compare her to the
weakest male
> player and say that women are superior. Would that be fair? No. Oh
course
> not. There are more guys to choose from, which is why most men
outpower women.
>
> What if there was an equal number of guys and girls? Do you still
think that
> the male would overpower the female in general? Maybe, Maybe not.
Just food
> for thought. Right or wrong.
>
> BTW As far as Todd always beating Cindy, I'm not convinced that this
is true.
> Todd may be better, but that isn't because he's male. Todd is Todd.
He's
> awesome. I'd say that Todd is that superior at that style of game,
where as
> Cindy is superior at different style (that many women use) which can
be just as
> effective. They are both great foosball players and we could all
learn a lot
> from either of them.
>
>
--
Mike Archer
been disproven by every other physical sport in existance that I can
think of.
Mike
In article <382F0244...@worldnet.att.net>,
foot...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> I don't believe there's anything physically that would
> keep a woman from becoming as good as a man at foosball. After all, it
> doesn't take a great deal of strength to move a foosball rod (that's
> what silicone is for, at least for most women ;-), and with the advent
> of the rollover shot its easy to hit the ball hard/fast even if you're
> not very strong.
>
> Women, I assume, have about equal reflexes and concentration to men. I
> don't agree that equal time spent playing/practicing foosball and
equal
> competition results in equal players - there are some intangibles
> involved such as innate talent etc. (there are plenty of basketball
> players in the world who put in as much time as anybody practicing who
> never make the NBA). But, as far as I know, there's no reason a woman
> couldn't have the innate talent either.
>
> What I do think women lack, in general, is the aggressiveness that
most
> men have, which is important to becoming a top player. That doesn't
mean
> that there couldn't be women who have that aggressiveness (Cindy Head
> comes to mind). My opinion for the reason there aren't any women at
the
> very top of the sport is a
> combination of the lack of aggressiveness and the much smaller player
> base of women overall. But I do think there's the potential for a
woman
> to be every bit as good as a man.
>
--
Amy Powers
>What I do think women lack, in general, is >the aggressiveness that most
>men have, which is important to becoming >a top player.
What I was thinking when I said this is that sometimes girls would rather be
friendly (myself included). I have trouble in singles (against Men or Women)
because I go to the table (especially women's events) and I'm like "Hi. How
have you been?" Most of the time, these are people that I really like and
respect and havn't seen for a while. Now I'm playing the match and my mind
isn't in that aggresive winning mode.
>>I can clearly see Jonny Horton or
>>Tommy Adkisson as aggressive players, >>but what about Dave Gummeson or
>>Fredrico? Would they be considered >>aggressive?
Now, to me aggresive does not describe a style of play. Sure some styles are
more aggresive. I can see that, but the aggresiveness that I was talking about
has to do with getting into that zone. When you are convinced that you are
going to win no matter what happens. Even if you just missed a pass and didn't
put a good shot on net and your oponent got the ball and nailed the short, you
are still fighting all the way. Really fighting. Playing to win. Pumping
yourself up to play. Mrs. DC is a good example of this (to me). I go to play
her in a match and she's all happy and smiling and nice. She hits some shots
and I block them and then somehow she pulls that aggresiveness out from
somewhere deep inside and wham. She nails the ball. Sometimes we both kind of
look at each other like Wow I didn't know that you had that in you. It doesn't
have to be a shot either. It's just like when you need to turn it on, can you
flip the switch and pull the aggresiveness out and finsh the match. You could
take all the time you want on the 5, but then you just nail that pass at the
key point in the match. I meant more of the ability to get into the zone of
play where your game (whatever style) is at it's best and even if something
doesn't work out for you, you are still going to win.
foo...@my-deja.com
haven't seen a women place 1st in open singles yet, so that has to count
for something. I think Mike first post was good, he's saying the AVERAGE
male and female players. I don't wanna get too much into things, because
I'll just get ragged on for being sexist. :)
I would like to know how in the world Cindy has ever NOT came in 1st in
Women's Singles and doubles when she's entered. Her game is so far
beyond any other girl that I've seen it's not even close. Personally, I
think Cindy plays like a man...every other woman I've seen plays like a
woman...if that makes any sense. There is one semi pro in CO...actually,
I think she just moved to TX...Her name is Carol Summers. She's got a
hammer for a pull when she's on...but she's rarely on fire. When she is,
I've seen her shoot in the high 80%...Harder than Cindy's shot...maybe
not as fast though. Carol would even have a few in and outs...which is
something you don't really see women do with a pull. She doesn't have
Cindy's single's game speed though...not even close.
RStolz32
>about "rag shots" or if I block their shots!
good point,which is why women have the potential to be mentally tougher than
men,most dont have their egos to battle as well as their opponents.....
foo...@my-deja.com
talked to a few girls, and they feel the same way too.
David_...@sabre.com
Maybe Steve isn't a good one to throw in there after the worlds
Beine/Swan Tielens/Gunther match... :)
-David
Amy Powers
>>Certainly the best women can beat the >>weaker guys...goes without saying.
You don't understand what I was saying. I said it would be unfair to use the
fact the best women can beat the weak men in order to draw a conclusion about
men and women in general. Just like it is unfair to use the fact that a male
semi-pro can beat a female pro to draw a conclusion. There are reasons for
this. Like the fact that women have more opportunities to gain points. I just
wanted people to understand another point of view and possibly get a good
discussion going.
>>Name ANY other
>>sport where the average woman's >>statistics (be it speed, power, stamina,
>>strength, etc.) are not lower than the >>average man's?
Well, like I said I was just giving another opinion. If your going to discuss
women I just thought that our side of the story should be stated. One thing
though. I don't agree that it is the strongest, fastest, most powerful player
that wins at foosball. That has a lot to do with it, but that's not the whole
game. A lot of the game is mental. I don't want to compare foosball to other
sports over the past 100 years. I can't think of a lot of sports that are the
same. You can tire out a stronger player and beat them if you're smart. You
don't have to agree with me, but trying to think of other sports is not going
to convince me of anything.
Paul M. Clark
can hit the hole just as good or better than some of us men!
LOL!!! But when it comes down to a game ,it's just a game until it's a
match,then it's WAR !!!!!
PMC
foo...@my-deja.com
> can hit the hole just as good or better than some of us men!
> LOL!!!
Speak for yourself dude. Just cause you have a weak shot, don't put
everyone else in that category too. :)
Kenalwell
Reply to Mike Archer...my feminine side can whip your feminine side any
day...hmm...this could open a rather large can of worms...
KA
Bruce Nardoci
evenly with men in a physical sport. However, I don't believe foosball
is sufficiently "physical" enough of a sport to make much of a
difference between men and women. As I noted, it doesn't take much
strength to move a foosball rod.
Women have already shown that they can play defense as well as men, and
even if (and I'm not sure there is) there is something lacking with
their arm/wrist strength that prevents them from doing a slide pull shot
sufficiently long and fast enough to score on a top goalie, that
shouldn't be true for the rollover shot. Cindy Head has shown that a
woman's 5 bar can be competitive with any man's. Women in general just
seem to lack the aggressiveness, confidence, killer instinct, or
whatever you want to call it that you need to play forward effectively,
but I think that's something that a woman could work on to change if she
really wanted to.
Mike Archer wrote:
>
> I really don't understand your opinion here, Bruce. What you say has
> been disproven by every other physical sport in existance that I can
> think of.
>
> Mike
>
> In article <382F0244...@worldnet.att.net>,
> foot...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> > I don't believe there's anything physically that would
> > keep a woman from becoming as good as a man at foosball. After all, it
> > doesn't take a great deal of strength to move a foosball rod (that's
> > what silicone is for, at least for most women ;-), and with the advent
> > of the rollover shot its easy to hit the ball hard/fast even if you're
> > not very strong.
> >
> > Women, I assume, have about equal reflexes and concentration to men. I
> > don't agree that equal time spent playing/practicing foosball and
> equal
> > competition results in equal players - there are some intangibles
> > involved such as innate talent etc. (there are plenty of basketball
> > players in the world who put in as much time as anybody practicing who
> > never make the NBA). But, as far as I know, there's no reason a woman
> > couldn't have the innate talent either.
> >
> > What I do think women lack, in general, is the aggressiveness that
> most
> > men have, which is important to becoming a top player. That doesn't
> mean
> > that there couldn't be women who have that aggressiveness (Cindy Head
> > comes to mind). My opinion for the reason there aren't any women at
> the
> > very top of the sport is a
> > combination of the lack of aggressiveness and the much smaller player
> > base of women overall. But I do think there's the potential for a
> woman
> > to be every bit as good as a man.
> >
>
> --
> - Mike Archer
>
Cptm
Pat Myers
Amy Powers
>Speak for yourself dude. Just cause you >have a weak shot, don't put
>everyone else in that category too. :)
And what's that supposed to mean?
Scott are you trying to start a fight with me? ;-)
foo...@my-deja.com
foos...@aol.com (Amy Powers) wrote:
>
>
It wouldn't be much of a fight...cause I'm a guy and you're
a...uh...nevermind. ;-)
Aaron Harris
<mar...@advparadigm.com> wrote:
>Hello there Amy. Well, I won't reply to each of your points, mainly
>because I feel that they can all be summarized into one reply.
>
>It does not matter if there were 50 women to every 1 man playing this
>game. All things being equal, the men would still win in an open
>competition. This isn't my opinion, this has been proven by sports
>history over the last 100 years or so. Name ANY other physical sport
>where women compete on a level playing ground with men? Name ANY other
>sport where the average woman's statistics (be it speed, power, stamina,
>strength, etc.) are not lower than the average man's? This is a
>physical fact....women are the weaker sex physically. Mentally I would
>place men and women on a level playing field. Foosball is no different
>than anything else.
>
>Certainly the best women can beat the weaker guys...goes without saying.
>The point was really about averages and the best players, not about the
>worst.
>
>Mike
>
>
A perfect example is in Tennis. Last year at the Australian Open
Serena Williams opened up her big mouth and said she could beat any
male player ranked 200 or lower. The guy ranked 203 or something like
that came back and said OK I'll play. He played her one set and toyed
with her and whooped her something like 6-2. Then Venus is watching
the match and says "I gotta protect my little sister" and goes and
gets dressed and challenges the guy and he plays her too and takes her
out in similar fashion, all the while not even hitting the ball hard
at them, just using placement. And these are two of the most
physically gifted female tennis players to ever play the game. They
couldn't even be competitive with a low ranked player who was taking
it easy on them.
Aaron Harris
Kingfoos
I haven't slept good since. My stomache has turned weak, I cry at movies, and
once a month I get moody. I hope I get over this soon.
Brian
P.S. Girls suck!
Kenalwell
Foosball past and present...my 4 cents worth, as I am older than Mendel...
In the 70's on TS, there was one woman who could play forward. Period. Lori
Schranz. Eventually Carrie Crowell gave her a run for her money, and actually
beat her once or twitce, then began playing with her when Karen Gilliland quit.
No one else could pass, let alone shoot with any consistency. I know, as I
reffed a few of those matches.
The women playing today are sooooo much more talented overall it is
remarkable.
The one area in which Lori may have had an advantage was in knowledge and
ability to adjust. However, all Lori did was play foos. And hang around with
some of the pioneers of the sport.
I had the priveledge of playing with and against Lori for years, and while
she could do many things as well as most men, I think even she would admit that
it wasn't her offensive skills that won most events for her. She was one of the
best at taking away what you did best. If you were one dimensional, you were
SOL.
As for the comparisons to Cindy Head, there aren't many valid ones I can see.
She is and has been in a class all by herself. The first time I ever saw her
play was against Harley Park in singles at my first tornado worlds. He handled
the match pretty easily, but she never slowed down or shut up. Made me and the
whole crowd laugh!
In the 70's I often waited until the tournament began to find a mixed
partner, and even with a rookie more than once placed second to Lori and Wiz.
This is a reflection on todays vastly improved womens field.
Cindy wins hands down. Her accomplishments against much stiffer competition
is gargantuan. We are (were?) in the presence of greatness, whether you like
her style or not. She is an incredible player, male or female.
Can she beat the best men? Maybe, maybe not. In order to level the field,
lets let her prepare against stiffer competition for 2 or 3 weeks, and focus on
nothing but foosball.
I watched her play the mixed doubles finals this year, and was fascinated.
She and Tracy were superb together, but I think she was calling the shots, and
ultimately her adjustments both offensively and defensively won that match. If
you don't have the tape, buy it.
This was more like a bucks worth, but what the hey. Next issue of NATSA news
coming out around the 1st of the year.
Join us now!!!
Ken Alwell www.NATSA.org
foo...@my-deja.com
Hahahahaha....that is FUNNY!!!
PMGoffJr
Thanks Ken,
Well, that about wraps THAT subject up, wouldn't you all agree?
Amy Powers
>It wouldn't be much of a fight...cause I'm a >guy and you're
>a...uh...nevermind. ;-)
Ya but your not exactly the most muscular of your kind. I bet I could give you
a run for your money. Super man shirt or not. ;-)
David_...@sabre.com
Actually i think he was quoted as saying he downed a six pack, smoked a
pack of cigarettes and then played them.....
-David
David_...@sabre.com
This year he did, we beat the all girl team we played :)
A few years back Swanny and Him weren't so lucky...
foo...@my-deja.com
> Ya but your not exactly the most muscular of your kind. I bet I could
give you
> a run for your money. Super man shirt or not. ;-)
Hmm...should we stop it here before things get too hostile, Amy? :)
Guess I know who else to add to my "spank list" for Vegas, hmm? Hahaa.
foo...@my-deja.com
> Actually i think he was quoted as saying he downed a six pack, smoked
a
> pack of cigarettes and then played them.....
AHAHAHAHA...I don't know which is funnier!
Amy Powers
>Guess I know who else to add to my >"spank list" for Vegas, hmm? Hahaa.
Go for it!! LOL.
Paul M. Clark
women-or-girl.You will get use to it! X-Thinks his game is so tough,just
wait til you get into a "match" with one of the girls here from Ohio or
Pa.They will spank you on the table and you will go home with your tail
between you legs.I guarentee it !!! Have fun and practice well!
Mike Archer
foot...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> I agree with your statement that women will never be able to compete
> evenly with men in a physical sport. However, I don't believe foosball
> is sufficiently "physical" enough of a sport to make much of a
> difference between men and women. As I noted, it doesn't take much
> strength to move a foosball rod.
>
I would disagree. While it does not take much strength to move the rod,
it does take a certain amount of speed to effectivly play the game.
Most of the better players hit the ball rather hard (harder than I have
seen most women hit it), and their shots are fast enough to be
un-raceable. This is where most women can't keep up...a few are
un-raceable...very few hit the ball hard enough. The roll-over does
help some, but it has been my experience that it is not quite the
equalizer most say it is.
> Women have already shown that they can play defense as well as men,
and
> even if (and I'm not sure there is) there is something lacking with
> their arm/wrist strength that prevents them from doing a slide pull
shot
> sufficiently long and fast enough to score on a top goalie, that
> shouldn't be true for the rollover shot. Cindy Head has shown that a
> woman's 5 bar can be competitive with any man's. Women in general just
> seem to lack the aggressiveness, confidence, killer instinct, or
> whatever you want to call it that you need to play forward
effectively,
> but I think that's something that a woman could work on to change if
she
> really wanted to.
>
See previous comment on the rollover. I think a women's five could be
good enough to compete at a high level, but the shooting and general
agressiveness is where they tend to fall down.
MIke
> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.
>
--
- Mike Archer
Mike Archer
saying.
>
use the
> fact the best women can beat the weak men in order to draw a
conclusion about
> men and women in general. Just like it is unfair to use the fact that
a male
> semi-pro can beat a female pro to draw a conclusion. There are
reasons for
> this. Like the fact that women have more opportunities to gain
points. I just
> wanted people to understand another point of view and possibly get a
good
> discussion going.
>
Amy,
Not sure if your logic pans out here. The points system is pretty much
screwed up for both genders. Many guys have been advanced rather
quickly. And then you see, oh who was it, Maggie Dix I think win
women's open events at several tour stops in a row and still be a
semi-pro? Odd, isn't it? My point really is that the points system is
no excuse. There are women playing this game that have been playing for
a very long time. Most of these women are pros, and by any definition
of the word, should be. The real point is that even these female
veterans would succumb to good male semi-pros. This has nothing to do
with the points system. You seem to want to make out the point system
as the bandit that makes women pros lose to male semi-pros. In reality,
if you put apples against apples (pro against pro), there really isn't
much question who wins, and it has nothing to do with points.
> >>Name ANY other
> >>sport where the average woman's >>statistics (be it speed, power,
stamina,
> >>strength, etc.) are not lower than the >>average man's?
>
> Well, like I said I was just giving another opinion. If your going to
discuss
> women I just thought that our side of the story should be stated. One
thing
> though. I don't agree that it is the strongest, fastest, most
powerful player
> that wins at foosball. That has a lot to do with it, but that's not
the whole
> game. A lot of the game is mental. I don't want to compare foosball
to other
> sports over the past 100 years. I can't think of a lot of sports that
are the
> same. You can tire out a stronger player and beat them if you're
smart. You
> don't have to agree with me, but trying to think of other sports is
not going
> to convince me of anything.
>
>
As I stated in other posts...yes, a good chunk of the game is mental.
Physical skills being equal, mental game can make the difference.
Physical skills slightly lacking, mental game might give you a chance.
But you reach a certain point where the mental game can not make up the
difference with the physical game. It is too wide a gulf to bridge.
You can take the best mental game in the world, attach it to a
straight-raceable shot, and all you get is a really lopsided match that
the strong mental game is going to lose anyway.
Mike
Mike Archer
said he smoked a pack of cigarettes and drank a six pack of beer before
he started playing either match. :)
In article <3830e257...@news.earthlink.net>,
Aaron_...@earthlink.net (Aaron Harris) wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Nov 1999 14:54:29 GMT, Mike Archer
> <mar...@advparadigm.com> wrote:
>
> >Hello there Amy. Well, I won't reply to each of your points, mainly
> >because I feel that they can all be summarized into one reply.
> >
> >It does not matter if there were 50 women to every 1 man playing this
> >game. All things being equal, the men would still win in an open
> >competition. This isn't my opinion, this has been proven by sports
> >history over the last 100 years or so. Name ANY other physical sport
> >where women compete on a level playing ground with men? Name ANY
other
> >sport where the average woman's statistics (be it speed, power,
stamina,
> >strength, etc.) are not lower than the average man's? This is a
> >physical fact....women are the weaker sex physically. Mentally I
would
> >place men and women on a level playing field. Foosball is no
different
> >than anything else.
> >
> >Certainly the best women can beat the weaker guys...goes without
saying.
> >The point was really about averages and the best players, not about
the
> >worst.
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >
>
> A perfect example is in Tennis. Last year at the Australian Open
> Serena Williams opened up her big mouth and said she could beat any
> male player ranked 200 or lower. The guy ranked 203 or something like
> that came back and said OK I'll play. He played her one set and toyed
> with her and whooped her something like 6-2. Then Venus is watching
> the match and says "I gotta protect my little sister" and goes and
> gets dressed and challenges the guy and he plays her too and takes her
> out in similar fashion, all the while not even hitting the ball hard
> at them, just using placement. And these are two of the most
> physically gifted female tennis players to ever play the game. They
> couldn't even be competitive with a low ranked player who was taking
> it easy on them.
>
> Aaron Harris
>
>
--
Foos Dawg
making an A list and a B list incase you can't get around to playing them
all in Vegas. :-)
__________________
Amy Powers wrote in message
<19991116154113...@ng-fw1.aol.com>...
Boris
I don't know how many events you will have time to enter.
At least you will have plenty to do after going 2&out to a 13 year old
wunderkind and a girl!
Boris
BillC
> Before you buy.
The story is true. It was some guy waiting around just to see if he
could
get into the main draw at whatever tournament it was because he wasn't
ranked high enough and he didn't make it through the qualifier.
I believe the bet was $100 a set - which TENNIS magazine said was paid
up in full. Both Williams sisters said they wanted a rematch... The
guy,
who could probably use the money, wasn't interested.
Dan Schuermeyer
allowed to play in one division below their overall all ranking in
events open to both genders Dan Schuermeyer
Dan Schuermeyer
worked with her some. Sorry Maggie I didnt work with you this past year
and only third:(
Dan Schuermeyer
Tournament Club in Birmingham Alabama for a tournament with Jon
Yarbrough .She had been running the table then. lol. She was only 16 -
18 herself and small. But shooting a huge variety of shots. It was
showtime!! I checked my trophy though and noticed I took 2nd to Gary
Barnett and Derek ??? They were hot players there but used the home
court adavantage on us. I still dont know of any women who are seriously
challenging Cindy as far as overall talent! Salute To Cindy Head!! Dan
Schuermeyer
foo...@my-deja.com
AHahah...look at Boris with some European smack! LOL
I take it I just added your name to the list too, huh? :)
foo...@my-deja.com
"Foos Dawg" <FoosDa...@play.com> wrote:
> Gee that list must be getting pretty long! :-) You might want to
consider
> making an A list and a B list incase you can't get around to playing
them
> all in Vegas. :-)
That's okay Dawg...the matches won't last too long, so I'll have plenty
of time. Besides, I plan on knocking a few off the list Thanksgiving
weekend when I go to MN States. :) Of course, they'll probably want
rematches at worlds anyway...so maybe you're right. Hahaha. :P
foo...@my-deja.com
foos...@aol.com (Amy Powers) wrote:
> >Hmm...should we stop it here before >things get too hostile, Amy? :)
>
> >Guess I know who else to add to my >"spank list" for Vegas, hmm?
Hahaa.
>
> Go for it!! LOL.
BRING IT ON BABY!!! LOL
Careful what you wish for, babe...World Champion or not, you'll be
digging for those quarters just like everyone else. LOL :)
Bruce Nardoci
While that's probably an accurate assessment of women's relative skills
to the men, the real solution is to fix the points/rating system so
women don't become overrated in the first place. Things like counting
points won in women's events separately from points in Open events,
breaking points into goalie vs forward and/or singles vs doubles, etc.
This is something the NATSA (http://www.natsa.org) ratings committee is
currently working on.
Boris
against my son first.
Boris
Amy Powers
>BRING IT ON BABY!!! LOL
>Careful what you wish for, babe...World >Champion or not, you'll be
>digging for those quarters just like >everyone else. LOL :)
That's funny. I thought that we already had our spank match at the worlds, in
fact I think that my team was doing the spanking.
foo...@my-deja.com
> That's funny. I thought that we already had our spank match at the
worlds, in
> fact I think that my team was doing the spanking.
HAhah...touche.
No no...I mean one without the "Atomic" one :)
Amy Powers
I never said that I was 100% right. The whole time I just said that there is
two sides to the story and that this is mine. Right or Wrong.
You don't have to agree with me. I knew that someone was going to try to prove
me wrong and just jump all over me for my opinion, but I said it anyway 'cause
I thought that it needed to be said and had left out. I just don't see why it
has to be right and wrong. That's how I feel as a women on tour. You aren't
going to convince me that I'm wrong and vice versa. Cool. So what.
As far as the strength issue (I'm not trying to say you are wrong, so chill).
I heard Spear say that it is half mental, half physical. I believe that. When
foos is at it's best it is not unlike a chess match. I've seen handicap people
in wheel chairs kick ass. That's what draws me to this game and that is what I
love about it.
I do think that the points issue in general is real, whether you agree or not
(as far as men vs women). Sure it's messed up for guys too. It's just
something that we should all be thinking about.
>You seem to want to make out the point >system
>as the bandit that makes women pros >lose to male semi-pros.
I never tried to say that the points system was some bandit that hurts women so
that semi pro men can beat up on them. I really wish you would stop twisting
my words around. I used that as an example of another reason why there seems
to be a difference between men and women, which is what I thought that everyone
was interested in to begin with.
Amy
Golddust96
Mike Archer wrote:
>And then you see, oh who was it, Maggie Dix I think win
>women's open events at several tour stops in a row and still be a
>semi-pro? Odd, isn't it?
Maggie Dix won her first Women's Open title (doubles, with me :-) at the 98
Nationals in Canton Oh. At the time she was ALREADY ranked pro-master. She
went from rookie to semi-pro to pro-master. Her 2nd and only other open title
(to date:) was singles at the World's 98. What you must have been referring
to, I believe, was when she (and I :-) won rookie women's doubles World titles
in 96. The first major event for both of us. And the following year we both
won World titles again as rookies. She in singles and myself with another
rookie player Laurene Sims in doubles. After that event in 97 neither of us
were able to play rookies again. It's not our fault we remained rookies for a
year. That's just the way the points worked out. Why should we not take
advantage of it while we could? I feel that I'm getting gyped now, because
I'm rated a pro, while I have only played "open doubles" 1 time out of 13
different tour stops I have attended since the 96 Worlds. All of my points are
"women points". Maybe a good semi-pro could beat me more often than I could
beat them. That only means I shouldn't be ranked pro. Right??? Although I
would love to compete against anyone who wants. Rookie, Semi-Pro, Pro, male,
female, whoever. I only play for the love of the game. I don't believe you
have to bigger, faster, or even stronger to win at foos. Skills, experience,
desire and smarts are a HUGE part of winning.
Striving to be 'BETTER THAN YOU" :-P
Just my humble opinion!
Dusty Bambenek
3X WC
foo...@my-deja.com
many people would say that.
I'll play you at vegas, if you think your ego can take getting beat by a
rookie. :) Hah :) Sounds like you're up for it.
X
Mike Archer
What I was attempting to do was conteract your opinions with facts. I
believe the problem started when you assumed my facts were opinions.
You may still think so. That's fine by me. I don't think I twisted
your words around much...the thread is there for all to see, but I don't
care to go back and fetch the original text. You cited two things - the
first being the number of men compared to the number of women playing
the game, and the points system ranking women too high, too fast. I
addressed both of those in a (fairly) concise manner. You didn't really
acknowledge the validity of either of my points, instead you reiterated
yours. Not acknowleding the opposing view is a sign of a closed mind.
Not much I can do about that. I have no personal problem with you, lest
anything on here be construed that direction. I was just trying to
enlighten the masses, you included.
Good luck!
Mike
In article <19991118160644...@ng-fu1.aol.com>,
--
- Mike Archer
Mike Archer
underranked SOMETIME! Sorry about that. I have been playing a while,
and as anyone who knows me will tell you, my memory of events past is a
bit hazy sometimes. I usually rely on Radack to fill in the gaps...that
boy has more useless knowledge in his head.
Anyway...YES take advantage of any slack the system gives you.
Unfortunately I have been on the other end of the slack, basically
getting bumped a bit before my time on a couple of occasions. It's all
a moot point now though....
You are a good example why men and women should be rated seperately
(which in effect they are). The point system is just like riding an
escaltor....very easy to go up, VERY hard to get back down.
And you have to play this game for the love of it. When I stop having
fun, that will be the last time you see me play. I have been playing
for 10 years, and still enjoy it.
Bring it on, bad girl. ;)
Mike
In article <19991118182119...@ng-fv1.aol.com>,
--
foo...@my-deja.com
I wish I wouldn't have skipped the DYP after worlds that you came up to
Denver to play. :)
X
Amy Powers
BTW I didn't give up. I still believe what I said.
JD86BLACK
Mike Archer
In article <19991119112542...@ng-fu1.aol.com>,
foos...@aol.com (Amy Powers) wrote:
> I feel so enlightened.
>
> BTW I didn't give up. I still believe what I said.
>
--
- Mike Archer
PMGoffJr
You boys quit picking on the girls.
Goldsnk
>definition of the differences between the sexes, your best man is still
>bigger, faster and stronger than your best woman.
>
>Mike
>
I bet if you too fought she could kick your ass!!! LOL!!
Amy Powers
Mike Archer
would just be swinging at air. :)
Mike
In article <19991122094158...@ng-ci1.aol.com>,
foos...@aol.com (Amy Powers) wrote:
> No doubt.
Amy Powers
Dan Schuermeyer
Foos! Im Single and Free and know how to treat a lady right! Ill even
pay for quarters! Dont be shy gals... If You are single and like
foosball, Check me out! I have pics and Im cool and fun! 38 years old
though so only adults!! Ok? Dan Schuermeyer
Paul M. Clark
BEISP1
>From: Heel...@webtv.net (Dan Schuermeyer)
>Date: Tue, 23 November 1999 03:16 AM EST
>Message-id: <29273-38...@storefull-241.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
Dan,
Swan told me to tell you that he's interested and that you've been looking real
good lately. He has no e-mail account so he asked me to relay this message to
you. Sweet dreams. hahahaha
Steve
Dan Schuermeyer
foosers from this region though. Thanks for continuing to displaying
your foosball skills. Although Beine is older both of these guys were
probably pros by age 17 or 18. How about sharing some wisdom Steve? Tell
us how to get The Monster pull Big Guy! Take Care! Shoe
G J 4533
does he loose some lateral speed on his pull shot ? could he play in women's
events? then again, a "guy" that would have such an operation would probably be
quite feminine to begin with.
On a serious note .. I prefer playing with women for a couple of reasons. 1)
for some unknown reason women have some really tough defenses. I think that
they have an incredible ability to "re-act" to shots and most are quite quick
at racing. B) when I play with a woman they seem to give all they have, all the
time. It makes me do the same. These 6 reasons make me want to have a female
partner. besides .. your defensive partner just scored a beautiful long pull
shot to put you up 4-3 .. would you rather pat the ass of a guy or a girl ?
just some thoughts
Gary (rod-lock) Johnston
RStolz32
its not unknown at all,they play goal a lot more than front, especially when
just starting out so they learn players tendencies...think about it,how often
does a women get to play front in a dyp ?
Paul
Good luck ,they will spank you on the table and then we all get to
laugh. LOL even
Paul
ps: Keep Smiling
:-))