Effect of Hand, Foot and Forearm Size on Swim Speed
Clive Jones
Does the size of your hands or forearm breadth affect front crawl speed?
How about foot and lower leg size and width?
Just searching for biological excuses for my inability to achieve a
decent pace!
Hand and foot size are a bit hard to alter without drastic surgery or
using gloves/fins/paddles etc, but would a bit of forearm iron pumping
have any benefit?
--
##################### CLIVE JONES #################################
SWINDON
UK
Diane Wynne
I don't know any references to this one. However I don't think its the size
that counts. I say this thinking of the size of the 12 year olds from the
swimming club that can run rings around me in the pool. Sorry to say this,
but I think its down to technique.
Diane Wynne
IMUK 98 13:30
"You are only limited by your imagination"
.... and your swim technique ?
Stacy Hills
Seems to me that it would be difficult to tell whether it was really the physical attributes that dominated, or the fact that they started in coached athletics at a very young age. I would think that someone who had started swimming competitively at the age of 5 would have an advantage over a more physically gifted swimmer who started at 12 or 15. Then again, the burn out rate must have been phenomenal.
Just musing,
Stacy Hills
SHi...@VCTInc.com
Reston, VA
Clive Jones wrote in message <35E67CA0...@ecid.cig.mot.com>...
William Morrow
: Are there any references on this topic?
: Does the size of your hands or forearm breadth affect front crawl speed?
: How about foot and lower leg size and width?
: Just searching for biological excuses for my inability to achieve a
: decent pace!
If you believe Terry Laughlin of Total Immersion fame, front crawl speed
is 70% determined by low drag, i.e. how streamlined your body is. So, the
size of your propulsive members has a secondary effect. Do you
concentrate on grabbing the water and pushing it behind you, plus kicking
furiously? Or do you concentrate on slipping through the water by
keeping your frontal area minimized, and keeping your body position
so as to swim "downhill"?
On the other hand, Ian Thorpe, the current 400m free world champion, has
size 18 feet. So at elite levels, where everyone has reduced drag
equally, size does matter.
Adrian Wynne
>
> The article said that for swimmers they looked for kids with big hands & feet.
Hmm.
If you're in the business of selecting swimmers by body types, maybe
those long skinny people with narrow shoulders have an advantage - they
create less of a hole in the water as they move through it.
There's another excuse for my list :)
> Stacy Hills
adrian
----------------------------------------------------
Adrian Wynne apw...@sec.dra.hmg.gb
IMUK98 12:19 Dare to dream !
animal_house
: Does the size of your hands or forearm breadth affect front crawl speed?
>>-> If you look at the physique of a world class male swimmer, you
see some common features. Most are taller than normal. Most
have disproportionally long arms and legs. Most true swimmers
have above average flexibility.
Though I have seen exceptions to the above generalizations,
this is what I typically note when watching swim meets.
________________________________________________________________________
Rich Davis E-mail: ri...@fc.hp.com
Home Page: http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~twm/TTH.html
________________________________________________________________________
Gleshna
>Are there any references on this topic?
>
>Just searching for biological excuses for my inability to achieve a
>decent pace!
>
>using gloves/fins/paddles etc, but would a bit of forearm iron pumping
>have any benefit?
I knew a swimming coach that kept pissing off the basketball coaches because he
kept trying to recruit the tallest kids for swimming. He firmly believed that
height and arm reach were the biggest advantages.
From watching the Popov tape, I get the idea that his coach has similar
thoughts.
Bob
Gleshna
>have any benefit?
Interesting question. If you make the forearm bigger, would it provide more
power on the stroke or more drag the rest of the time?
You will need to add a great deal of forearm mass to get any noticable
increased diameter from what I understand.
Bob
Mike Bundy
has
>size 18 feet. So at elite levels, where everyone has reduced drag
>equally, size does matter.
At elite levels, these are possibly the things that make the small
differences between competitors who all have essentially similar skills
and ability. I know that Susie ("Madame Butterfly") O'Neal has extremely
pigeon-toed feet and very flexible ankles. When she swims butterfly she
makes good use of this, by slightly over-lapping her toes to form
something akin to a large single flipper...
However, I think your dead right, that these minor physical attributes
don't account for the differences between crap swimmers (like me) and
those who swim well. I think that's mainly down to having a good
technique -- a thing which, for some reason, continues to elude me.
-- MB.
William Morrow wrote in message <6s6bti$ga8$1...@f02s02.tac.net>...
>In rec.sport.swimming Clive Jones <jon...@ecid.cig.mot.com> wrote:
>: Are there any references on this topic?
>: Does the size of your hands or forearm breadth affect front crawl
speed?
>: How about foot and lower leg size and width?
>
>: Just searching for biological excuses for my inability to achieve a
>: decent pace!
>
Chris, Griet en de mannen
>
> Are there any references on this topic?
> Does the size of your hands or forearm breadth affect front crawl speed?
> How about foot and lower leg size and width?
>
> Just searching for biological excuses for my inability to achieve a
> decent pace!
>
> have any benefit?
CLIVE JONES > SWINDON > UK
In College, we had swimclasses from prof. Persyn ( "worldfamous"
swimtrainer in Belgium). The first thing he told us was something in the
line of " if you don't have at least shoe size 12, forget becoming a
competitive swimmer". This is mostly important in breaststroke, where
your legs count for 50% of the propelling power - in freestyle it's only
20%. Furthermore, he told us that you should have hypermobility in your
ankle joint in plantar flexion ( pointing your toesd down ).
I've barely got shoe size 5 and still ENJOY swimming.
Griet
(Pete Cresswell)
>I've barely got shoe size 5 and still ENJOY swimming.
Well, I've got size 15's and a *very* weak kick....I guess they need to be wide
too...
-----------------------
Pete Cresswell
John C. Emig
#1 ask your coach
#2 if you still find yourself with freetime after doing all your coach
suggests, try doing more technique drills or flexibility training.
#3 if you are still inexorably drawn to the weight room, do exersises
there trying to imitate the range and shape of motions used in swimming
rather than trying to change the God given shape of your body. Work with
what you have. Don't get caught up in comparing yourself with others.
Mark Miller
and S.O.B.
Sorry, just had to get that political commentary out this morning. I put a
post up a few months back about short legs and running capacity. I was
looking for suggestions on lengthening my stride a bit to help compensate
for my relatively short inseam. I received some excellent advice and have
trimmed 6 minutes (slashed, actually) from my 10k PR through drill work,
intervals, and hills.
While I'm still not a great runner, I do well in the swim. I'm 5'8" with
small hands and size 8 feet (that's US size 8), and yet I swim a 21 minute
1500 at 42 years old. As to your specific dimensional concerns as a
swimmer, here are some things to consider:
o I can't kick worth a darn.... and for open-water distance swimming, who
cares? Your legs should be used for balance and rhythym -- the energy
expended for an agressive kick is not worth the effort for such a low
propulsion component in distance swimming.
o Instead of worrying about your kick, just make sure your legs aren't
slowing you down. They should be streamlined, relaxed, fluid, and your
knee-to-toe line should be straight without strain.
o Watch Terry Laughlin's Total Immersion video -- if only just to see
EXACTLY what a distance swimmer's stroke should look like. It truly is
artistry in motion - you won't believe the glide and efficiency you'll see.
(And you'll also notice this has nothing to do with physique -- sorry
Terry.)
o I've NEVER seen a muscular, body-builder type upper-body on a distance
swimmer. In fact, when I'm lining up and seating myself at a race, I make
sure I line up in front of anyone who looks like they pump iron -- I know I
would have to pass them within the first 200 yards if I let them start in
front of me. Most swimmers are very careful about weight training. If you
don't have a weight training program specifically designed for swimmers,
you're probably better off staying away from upper-body weight lifting.
One more thing.... if you had huge hands and feet, you probably couldn't
run worth a darn! :-)
-- Mark
Clive Jones wrote in message <35E67CA0...@ecid.cig.mot.com>...
>Are there any references on this topic?
>Does the size of your hands or forearm breadth affect front crawl speed?
>How about foot and lower leg size and width?
>
>Just searching for biological excuses for my inability to achieve a
>decent pace!
>
>Hand and foot size are a bit hard to alter without drastic surgery or
>using gloves/fins/paddles etc, but would a bit of forearm iron pumping
>have any benefit?
b...@hawaiilawyer.com
> o I've NEVER seen a muscular, body-builder type upper-body on a distance
> swimmer. In fact, when I'm lining up and seating myself at a race, I make
> sure I line up in front of anyone who looks like they pump iron -- I know I
> would have to pass them within the first 200 yards if I let them start in
> front of me. Most swimmers are very careful about weight training. If you
> don't have a weight training program specifically designed for swimmers,
> you're probably better off staying away from upper-body weight lifting.
I'm living support for that position. I'm a weightlifter and an extremely
slow swimmer. I'm quite sure that my large upper body is producing
considerably more drag than my slimmer counterparts, but I'm willing to live
with that. I enjoy lifting and prefer to be muscular - even if it makes me a
slower swimmer.
Anybody who lines up behind me at the swim (and I try to line up at the back)
is either REALLY slow, or making a bad mistake. <g>
Aloha,
-Ben-‰
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Beth
> I'm living support for that position. I'm a weightlifter and an extremely
> slow swimmer. I'm quite sure that my large upper body is producing
> considerably more drag than my slimmer counterparts, but I'm willing to live
> with that. I enjoy lifting and prefer to be muscular - even if it makes me a
> slower swimmer.
I doubt it's just the "streamlining" which works against serious
weightlifters in the water. It's pretty likely that people who
lift a lot of weights are developing muscles which will *not*
help them in swimming and may actually harm their swimming by
decreasing flexibility.
Many of the serious weightlifters make sure that they concentrate
on keeping their muscles balanced and most people like to have those
nice bulging biceps. :) Now if you've ever looked at most of the
elite swimmers, you'll see they tend to have large triceps and flatter
biceps (long & smaller biceps instead of the bulging ones). That's
developed
due to swimming, exercising, and weightlifting *all* with the sole
intention of improving their swimming.
Beth (whose tri's are bigger :)
[followups set to rec.sport.swimming]
wese...@mindspring.com
Hmmm. You wrote: I'm 5'8" with small hands and size 8 feet (that's US size 8)
Hey, those are my dimensions too. What's your inseam? Perhaps I have similar
challenges ahead of me.
I'm currently doing a couple duathlons each year, but am looking into getting
into the swim of things as well. Perhaps I'll finally do a triathlon or two
next year. Although I know how to swim, my technique is very poor. Any
other beginner recommendations would help. Call me strange but, I actually
enjoy open water swimming!
--
Bill Seiter
http://weseiter.home.mindspring.com
Mark Miller
>Although I know how to swim, my technique is very poor. Any
>other beginner recommendations would help.
Bill... best advice to novice swimmers -- get coaching! Learning good
technique from the start is far easier than changing bad technique when you
realize you aren't getting any faster.
I'm a big fan of Terry Laughlin's Total Immersion program, but any good
coaching will help you refine your stroke. Focus on stroke efficiency
(strokes per pool length) in short interval sets of 100 - 200 yards. Use
drills to help your body "remember" the technique, body position, and
balance that you've studied. Then include intensity and distance - AFTER
these stroke refinements have been internalized. It's VERY
counter-productive to practice bad technique.
> Call me strange but, I actually enjoy open water swimming!
I enjoy open-water swimming too. Having played competitive water polo, I
even love the crowded swims. It's so much easier to swim fast when you have
your toes gripping the wasteband of the swimmer next to you as you push them
toward the bottom! (JUST KIDDING HERE -- I am very careful about NOT
obstructing other racers even if it means swimming way out to the side to
get around them.)
>Hey, those are my dimensions too. What's your inseam? Perhaps I have
similar
>challenges ahead of me.
Inseam - 30 inches. I thought this was why I was a slow runner. Not true.
I was a slow runner (still am - but improving) because I didn't spend enough
time running and learning to run. I expect to break 40 minutes for the 10k
this year after struggling to finish in under one hour 2 years ago.
Good luck with the move from du to tri... now if only I could learn to
ride a bike! :)
-- Mark
Robby Duffy
there is a point on all swimmers where more muscles would only be
detrimental, but that point varies so greatly from swimmer to swimmer that
it would be impossible to calculate it for one swimmer.
Body styles also vary from stroke to stroke. Distance swimmers tend to
have their largest stock of muscles in their upper body. Sprinters, on the
other hand, have monstrous leg strength. Breaststrokers do indeed have
very developed biceps in addition to pecks, abs, thighs, and calves. Flyers
have alot of strength in thier upper body.
To prove my point that size dosent matter, I know a boy who is about
6'-1", 225 lbs who has an 8:30 in the 800m free. I also have a friend who
is 6'-0", 150 lbs who has a :21.0 in the 50 free.
Robby Duffy
rod...@vt.edu
lawso...@gmail.com
> Are there any references on this topic?
> Does the size of your hands or forearm breadth affect front crawl speed?
> How about foot and lower leg size and width?
>
> Just searching for biological excuses for my inability to achieve a
> decent pace!
>
> Hand and foot size are a bit hard to alter without drastic surgery or
> using gloves/fins/paddles etc, but would a bit of forearm iron pumping
> have any benefit?
> --
> ##################### CLIVE JONES #################################
> SWINDON
> UK