Over training young swimmer ??'s-- HELP!
Barbara
YMCA team, My problem involves the parent of a young swimmer -- who
just turned 11 last week.
Last year she had him train with a local college team, she had him
practice additionally in a nearby town (30 miles away), as well as
privately coached and occasionally came to my practices. He did well
at state, but i would guess that he swam at least 25 hours p er week--
I actually was not consulted or informed about any of the practices--
until the season was almost over. THe child is about average height
for his age, and underweight.
THis year she is not able to convince the college program that he
should train with them, and the son is balking at travelling to the
neighboring town for practices -- so I am the only ball game in town.
Now -- she is having him practice for an hour before school, and she
is asking that he do double workouts in the afternoon ( 2:45 minutes
instead of the 1:45 allotted for his age group) I said no.
We are not a year round team and have just begun swim practices.
The yardage his age group is working on is just at 3,300 yds, give or
take.
He works at 100% all the time, does warm-ups at race speed, e tc. I
think his mother is telling him what to do all the time -- and I
really feel sorry for him.
I personally think that this kid is going to quit swimmming in a few
years when he has the courage to tell his mother-- and it won't matter
how many state championships he wins. I also think that swimming 5
days a week f or 1:30 to 2 hours a day is plenty for his age level.
AM i wrong? I would hate to have a confrontation with this woman if
she had some validity. Do 11 year olds need to get in 6 or 7K yards
a day? And if they do, what is the point??
Thanks in advance,
Coach in Illinois
Kerry Wilson
A tough problem, which I and doubtless many other coaches have had to deal
with as well. As per your fears, a swimmer comes immediately to mind who
did drop out of swimming when she was 14 years old, despite being the
league's best swimmer by far in her age group and having a budding string of
international performances to her credit.
The only solution I have ever come up with that seems in any way
satisfactory is to run your workouts as you see best fit and let the parents
handle the rest. It's your call as to his workout schedule with your team.
Over and above that, just try to keep abreast of his extracurricular workout
schedule so you can gauge how well your own workout program is working for
him. My guess is that a confrontation will backfire, so when I find myself
in your position, I generally express my views to the parents -- once -- and
let it go at that. There are 64 other swimmers on your team, so beware of
his situation consuming so much of your time and energy that other swimmers
on the team are being short-changed.
fat bastard
news:aea7727c.01101...@posting.google.com...
[snipped]
> The yardage his age group is working on is just at 3,300 yds, give or
take.
Sounds about right so far.
> I also think that swimming 5 days a week f or 1:30 to 2 hours a day is
plenty for his age level.
I agree.
> Do 11 year olds need to get in 6 or 7K yards a day?
Nope. Typically, that type of volume shouldn't be introduced until he's at
least 13. Of course that will also depend on both his physical & emotional
maturity; he might approach those distances as an old 12 year old. (Around
the 11-12 age group, girls can usually handle a little more volume and
intensity than the boys...but they shouldn't be doing 6-7k/day either).
> I would hate to have a confrontation with this woman if she had some
validity.
I wouldn't confront this woman at all, nor would I get into a drawn out
discussion or argument over the merits of training a certain way. You will
NEVER change her mind concerning her training philosophy, and it's simply
not worth the headaches. Just tell her that you don't give special
workouts. If she continues to push, just be polite, but don't get drawn
into a confrontation.
LC
of young swimmers burn out by age 12-13 due to parents like the one you
describe. Swimming should be fun, and 6000-7000 yard workouts for an 11-year
old are definitely not fun. I'm a big believer (even now as a master) of
"quality, not quantity." There's absolutely no reason for an 11-year old to
be swimming the kind of yardage and hours you describe.
Is there any way for you to close practices to parents? I used to teach
swimming and had the best results when parents weren't within sight of the
kids. As the coach, you should be the only authority figure during workouts.
best of luck, sounds like you'll be needing it.
"Barbara" <bra...@ispchannel.com> wrote in message
news:aea7727c.01101...@posting.google.com...
johnhwright
99% of problems would disappear
John
"LC" <lce...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ZC1x7.1166$d51.1...@news.uswest.net...
de Valois
to clean up:
>
> AM i wrong? I would hate to have a confrontation with this woman if
>she had some validity. Do 11 year olds need to get in 6 or 7K yards
>a day? And if they do, what is the point??
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
Coach,
You set the rules for your team, but you can't set the rules for her family. If
your team only practices X hours a week, and the mother wants more, then that's
her problem.
Tao te Carl
Barbara
> I would like to coach an orphans swimming club
> 99% of problems would disappear
>
> John
>
BTW everyday is confrontation with this mother --
Kerry Wilson
Ah! A control freak. She controls her kid. She wants to control you.
Stand your ground -- politely but firmly. If it continues, it's time to
talk to the pool management...
Leanne Bell
2hr sessions a week. His coach is the Queensland Tip Top Coach (Up and
comers, Susie O/Neil, Kieren Perkins and Grant Hackett started here) and
firmly believes juniors need no more than 6 sessions a week. Unfortunately
though my son has to compete against children here in Australia that are
doing 11 sessions a week at his age (My son is a state level swimmer and
holds a state record). His coach's theory is that these swimmers burn out
early in their teens and rarely go on to achieve. Alex Baumann has a great
book on coaching swimmers of this age. Suggest to the mother that she read
kpandya
> 99% of problems would disappear
> John
LOL!! That's *brilliant*!
Sydney.
Elpaninaro
>> she had some validity. Do 11 year olds need to get in 6 or 7K yards
>> a day? And if they do, what is the point??
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Coach in Illinois
Hi Coach in Illinois,
In my not so humble opinion you are absolutely correct to be concerned! It
sounds like Mom is on the verge of child endangerment to me.
I used to model and I did a lot of recruiting and this is just the sort of
thing that really just made me shiver- a parent pushing their child well beyond
reasonable limits with scary results.
Personally I would advise against a confrontation however. It would be better
to be firm, but also try to come across as the good guy in the end so that
hopefully you can keep this child swimming with you where you can develop him
in a way that he likes.
I would suggest that you gently pressure Mom to take her son to a doctor to get
an "evaluation". Tell her that at his level of training it is just a good idea
to ensure that her son is in good working order (and that would be telling the
truth actually.) Emphasize that keeping close tabs on his general health is
more important for him than the other children since he is performing at such a
high level, also a true statement.
I think if a doctor gets a good look at this boy, especially since you are
saying he is underweight, and gets an honest report from Mom on his training
schedule, that the doctor will not only be willing to make some strong
statements, but will also be well equipped with facts and perhaps even past
cases that will give Mom some very compelling health reasons to back off.
The doctor will be completely removed from the whole "swimming scene" so the
opinion will come off more objective and neutral. Plus the doctor can explain
many of the possible health problems in a complete way based on facts.
From there hopefully Mom will ease up some.
But if she does not, or refuses the doctor option, then I would advise giving
serious consideration to telling her that her son can swim at the regular times
with the rest of the group and no more. If you are the only game in town, then
that would force her to take him far away every day, and I think that would
wear thin pretty quickly- hopefully.
In any case, kudos to you for being concerned. I hope this works out well for
you.
Take care,
Tom.
Red
Sounds like she's setting this kid up for a multitude of problems. If
she keeps this up, he's probably going to hate swimming for the rest
of his life. If this kid is lucky, he'll probably end up in
psychiatric treatment as well.
I was treated in a similar fashion when I was a child, I had no
interest in swimming at all, but one day when I was 11, my parents, my
mother in particular, started cramming it down my throat by pretty
much banning any other activities in my life but swimming or reading
swimming books. It was terrible to say the least.
As part of the healing for this and other things in my life, I wrote
this story about it. Perhaps it will save others from what I went
through.
Here is my story:
The trouble began when I was young, I don’t know why, it just
did. It was like things were fine one day, and it all collapsed the
next. I’ll never figure it out, if there is a reason, but I
know in my heart I was hurt by it, and the damages were long reaching.
I lived in a fairly normal home, with a big backyard, there were many
times I played in that yard, happily, without a care, the way it
should be. One day, that all changed, the yard went away when a
swimming pool was put in. I missed the yard, no more place to play.
For some strange reason, I was very uncomfortable around the water,
but nobody seemed to care. There were occasional attempts to get me
to swim, but they seldom went anywhere. Sometimes, they’d try
to make me stay outside and get suntanned, or occasionally getting me
to soak my feet in the water, but these were few and far between, and
I was allowed to be me.
A year or so after the pool came along, we moved to a new home, with
no pool. I really enjoyed my backyard, but this didn’t last
long, a new pool was dug. There were again, a few attempts of to get
me to swim, but I was left alone. When this was going on, there were
no problems, I lived my life, other people lived theirs, and there
were no problems.
It was the summer after 5th grade the real problems started. It began
with my brother, fresh out of school on his way to the military,
stopped in for a visit. One evening, while he was in the pool
swimming, my mother told me he wanted to talk to me, so I went
outside. He asked me if I was interested in swimming, and I said no.
He then started rambling about how I had to learn, and even attempted
offering me something, not specifying what, if I would do it. I still
refused and went in. Later that night, I saw him an my mother talking
in the kitchen, she immediately sent me to bed with him saying
“You’re going in the wa-wa(his slang term for water)
tomorrow” while grinning ear to ear. I couldn’t sleep,
finally falling asleep around 4am or so.
The next morning, I got up, and everything seemed fine. Nothing was
mentioned, so I thought maybe they had come to their senses. That
afternoon, I was told by my brother it was “wa-wa time,”
meaning I had to get into the pool. I refused, and he and I got into
a big shouting match, I tried talking to my mother, she said things
like “Albert says you have to,” and even dug out a
hand-me-down bathing suit for me to wear in the pool. She and my
sister decided to go shopping while Albert attempted to make me swim,
with my mother telling me right before she left “if you’re
not in that pool when I get back I’m going to spank you.”
I couldn’t believe this, my own mother was blatantly turning
against me and siding with my brother, who had in the past abused me.
I wanted to believe she had been somehow talked into it and it
wasn’t really her idea, but I don’t know for sure.
That afternoon was absolute hell for me. My first time in the pool
was not a positive experience. It consisted primarily of my brother
yelling at me and threatening me, dragging me into the deep end and
attempting to sink me, and my already having a fear of the water to
begin with didn’t make it any better. We argued with him
screaming at me because I didn’t want to put my face in the
water, telling me I needed to swim “to survive,” and
saying things like “sissies and mama’s boys don’t
swim.” This experience basically showed me I was justified for
not wanting to be in the water. Afterwards, I thought this was over,
but I was wrong, it was only beginning.
After my brother left, my summers became very unhappy. Whenever my
sister decided to get in the pool, my mother’s new rule was I
had to swim too, meaning, since I couldn’t swim or float, I
would just wade in the shallow end. My sister learned to love this,
because it gave her so much control over me. Whenever I was doing
something I liked, my sister would decide it was time to swim so I
would have to drop what I was doing. Sometimes it would be 2 or 3
times a day. Neither of them, nor my dad, cared how I felt about
this. My mother would even say things like “in school when they
find out you can’t swim, they’ll take you and throw you in
the pool.” I knew this wasn’t true, because at the one
school I attended which had a pool, my not knowing how to swim was not
unknown nor did I try to hide it, and nobody cared. It was never an
issue with anyone, nor would it ever have been, and even if it had, it
was nobody else’s business but my own.
Other popular excuses for forced swimming were such things as
“You have to get some sun on those legs,” or “you
need to get exercise.” Others related to safety, which I also
knew weren’t true because there were many instances in which my
sister would get upset and storm into the house because I
wouldn’t do anything she told me to do, I was required to stay
outside, in the pool, alone, unsupervised. Part of my indoctrination
to the world of swimming included being forced to read books about
swimming repeatedly, all of which had a section on pool safety which
stated people shouldn’t be left alone in the pool at all, and
non-swimmers should be supervised when around the pool.
I was glad this summer was over, because once school started, swimming
was over for a while. Of course, another summer would come, and I
wasn’t looking forward to it. One evening, while nobody was
around, my mother asked me if I wanted to have a swimming party for my
6th grade class, I said no, but the next day, learned from my teacher
I was having one! This really hurt, because I was asked and my
feelings were totally ignored. To me, this said that to my family, my
feelings, opinions, desires, etc., meant absolutely nothing. Any
other member of the family’s feelings would have been respected,
but not mine. I didn’t swim that day, and it really irritated
my parents. I won a small battle against my parents quest to turn me
into a swimmer, but it was the only one. This was another summer of
forced swimming at the hands of my sister, being fed the same excuses
about swimming being important, suntans, etc. Another miserable
summer.
The next summer was more of the same with a twist, another brother
taught me to float. I hoped that once I learned to float, that would
be the end of it, it wasn’t. There was more forced spending
time in the pool, and organized swimming lessons. I was promised it
would only be 8 lessons, and that once I had learned to swim, I would
have a choice from that day forward. Both of these were lies of
course, I ended up taking 16 lessons, and was still mandated to swim
whenever my sister did. In fact, I had to swim when I
“wasn’t doing anything,” and the only activity that
was considered “doing anything” was swimming. My sister
really loved the control it gave her over me, and of course, made my
life miserable.
That was also the summer I had found a new interest I wanted to
explore, electronics. I had begun a summer project of building a
Heathkit, which I was really enjoying and learning a lot from. Every
time I would go to work on it, it would be time to go swimming. I
never understood why this was, what kind of parent would object to
their child wanting to learn a new skill, one that could possibly
provide a good income one day? I was told such things as “You
need to balance yourself out,” “You need to get
exercise,” and the weird one, “You need to get some sun on
those legs.” At one point, I was even told “All that your
brothers and sister ever had was brains, I don’t want you to
have brains, I want you to have big muscles and a suntan.”
The most ludicrous of the lies was “I want you to swim so
you’ll get big muscles and be able to knock them flat.”
When I did have a fight with someone in school, my mother screamed at
me for fighting in school, and when I told her she said this, she just
looked at me like I was crazy. Another popular lie was “girls
won’t like you if you don’t swim,” and “If you
would swim, you would have more friends.” I wasn’t going
to let people use me for a pool, that isn’t the way I am.
The next summer was even worse, I was punished for the whole summer,
no music, radio, TV, etc., all I was allowed to do was wait for my
sister to decide it’s time to go swimming, and I had to swim
too. This really hurt me very much, spending a summer as my
sister’s slave. She enjoyed having a slave, reminding me
“You’re bad so you can only do what I say.” I spent
my time being depressed, being my sister’s slave wasn’t
the kind of life I wanted, I just wanted to be me. Whatever they
attempted to achieve punishing me didn’t work, I knew it was all
phony, just an excuse to get my swimming. They felt that denying me
everything but swimming would make me love swimming, but it
didn’t work, it only increased my hatred of it.
Basically, I had spent 4 summers being my sister’s slave, losing
my activities, my life, etc. How does this benefit me? Denying me a
chance to learn a skill like electronics, does that help me? What
about my sister, does teaching her she has a slave help her?
It used to be we could live our own lives, but after swimming, that
was taken away from me, and I’m not sure if I’ve ever
gotten it back. Why forcing it on me was so important made no sense
to me at all, in fact, the brother who was determined to force me to
swim, and who started all of this, didn’t learn to swim until he
was 17! My mother loves to remind me of this, but won’t answer
the question “if he had a choice, why didn’t I?”
Nobody ever interfered in what he, or anyone else in my family wanted
to do, only me.
Today, I still don’t understand what the issue with swimming
was. It wasn’t about exercise, because even though I engaged in
other physical activities, I was told “Only swimming is
exercise.” As for safety, making someone who doesn’t know
how to swim stay in a pool alone with no supervision is not at all
safe. Both of my parents are not sports fans, when I tried using this
to get them to stop the mandated swimming, I was told “Swimming
is not a sport.” Now, they still spread rumors of how I loved
swimming and swam before I could walk, when the truth is I never went
into a swimming pool until I was 11, didn’t learn to swim until
I was 13, hated it, and always will.
Why would someone do these things? I guess I'll never know. Some
people just can't tolerate others having their own preferences of
activities I guess.
My 2 cents.
Red