English clubs vs Turkish clubs in Europe
real_...@yahoo.co.uk
Worked CL Draw thread.
On seeing that Chelsea had drawn Fenerbahce, Wanyik questioned whether
English teams had a poor record against Turkish sides in Europe.
My off the cuff response was to say that his observation was something
of a misconception, but that Turkish sides did have a habit of
upsetting English sides when least expected.
However, after posting the above it occurred to me that I responded on
the basis of absolutely no scientific or factual research whatsoever,
merely the memories of a time and alcohol addled mind.
So I decided to look into the matter further.........(hey, I'm bored
and it's a miserable grey day here, so why not?)
Therefore, please find below the complete record of European matchups
between Turkish and English sides in European club competition.
European Cup 1968/69:
1st Round:
Manchester City 0 - Fenerbahce 0
Fenerbahce 2 - Manchester City 1
(Fenerbahce win 2-1 on aggregate)
European Cup Winners Cup 1972/73:
1st Round:
Leeds United 1 - MKE Ankaragucu 1
MKE Ankaragucu 0 - Leeds United 1
(Leeds United win 2-1 on aggregate)
European Cup 1976/77:
2nd Round:
Trabzonspor 1 - Liverpool 0
Liverpool 3 - Trabzonspor 0
(Liverpool win 3-1 on aggregate)
UEFA Cup 1977/78:
1st Round:
Aston Villa 4 - Fenerbahce 0
Fenerbahce 0 - Aston Villa 2
(Aston Villa win 6-0 on aggregate)
UEFA Cup 1978/79:
1st Round:
Galatasaray 1 - West Bromwich Albion 3
West Bromwich Albion 3 - Galatasaray 1
(West Bromwich Albion win 6-2 on aggregate)
European Cup Winners Cup 1979/80:
1st Round:
Arsenal 2 - Fenerbahce 0
Fenerbahce 0 - Arsenal 0
(Arsenal win 2-0 on aggregate)
European Cup 1982/83:
1st Round:
Aston Villa 3 - Besiktas 1
Besiktas 0 - Aston Villa 0
(Aston Villa win 3-1 on aggregate)
European Cup 1993/94:
2nd Round:
Manchester United 3 - Galatasaray 3
Galatasaray 0 - Manchester United 0
(3-3 on aggregate, Galatasaray win on away goals rule)
Champions League 1994/95:
Group Stage:
Galatasaray 0 - Manchester United 0
Manchester United 4 - Galatasaray 0
UEFA Cup 1994/95:
2nd Round:
Trabzonspor 1 - Aston Villa 0
Aston Villa 2 - Trabzonspor 1
(2-2 on aggreagate, Trabzonspor win on away goals rule)
Intertoto Cup 1995/96:
1st Round (Group Stage):
Bursaspor 4 - Wimbledon 0
Champions League 1996/97:
Group Stage:
Fenerbahce 0 - Manchester United 2
Manchester United 0 - Fenerbahce 1 (this match saw Manchester United
end their 47 year unbeaten home record in Europe)
Intertoto Cup 1998/99:
3rd Round:
Crystal Palace 0 - Samsunspor 2
Samsunspor 2 - Crystal Palace 0
(Samsunspor win 4-0 on aggregate)
Champions League 1999/00:
Group Stage:
Chelsea 1 - Galatasaray 0
Galatasaray 0 - Chelsea 5
UEFA Cup 1999/00:
Semi Final:
Galatasaray 2 - Leeds United 0
Leeds United 2 - Galatasaray 2
(Galatasaray win 4-2 on aggregate)
UEFA Cup 1999/00:
Final:
Galatasaray 0 - Arsenal 0
(played at neutral venue, Galatasaray win 4-1 after penalty kicks)
Champions League 2000/01:
Group Stage:
Leeds United 6 - Besiktas 0
Besiktas 0 - Leeds United 0
Champions League 2001/02:
2nd Group Stage:
Liverpool 0 - Galatasaray 0
Galatasaray 1 - Liverpool 1
Champions League 2003/04:
Group Stage:
Chelsea 0 - Besiktas 2
Besiktas 0 - Chelsea 2 (played at neutral venue)
UEFA Cup 2003/04:
1st Round:
Genclerbirligi 3 - Blackburn Rovers 1
Blackburn Rovers 1 - Genclerbirligi 1
(Genclerbirligi win 4-2 on aggregate)
Champions League 2004/05:
Group Stage:
Manchester United 6 - Fenerbahce 2
Fenerbahce 3 - Manchester United 0
UEFA Cup 2005/06:
Group Stage:
Besiktas 1 - Bolton Wanderers 1
Champions League 2006/07:
Group Stage:
Liverpool 3 - Galatasaray 2
Galatasaray 3 - Liverpool 2
UEFA Cup 2006/07:
Group Stage:
Newcastle United 1 - Fenerbahce 0
Besiktas 0 - Tottenham Hotspur 2
Champions League 2007/08:
Group Stage:
Besiktas 2 - Liverpool 1
Liverpool 8 - Besiktas 0
Thus, the final record to date is as follows. In individual matches,
English clubs have been victorious on 20 occasions, Turkish clubs have
won on 14 occasions and 13 matches ended in draws (it should be noted
that I have classified Galatasaray's triumph in the 2000 UEFA Cup
Final as a win as opposed to a draw).
So from the above, my initial assumption that English sides come
through more often than not would appear to be true, though giving the
relative strength and history of the leagues in question, Turkish
sides have indeed achieved respectable results more often than they
"should" have done.
*However*, one particularly interesting statistic is that when clubs
from the two countries have met one another in a purely knockout
environment, Turkish clubs have won the tie 7 times compared to 6
victories for English sides. So taking that stat into account, Wanyik
was in one way right to say that English clubs have a poor record
against Turkish clubs.
Another worrying take on that stat from an English perspective was
that the 6 English knockout victories all came between the 1970's and
early 80's, when English sides were strong enough to win the European
Cup umpteen times in a row and the strength of the Turkish league was
comparable to the English Fourth Division. In modern times Turkish
sides would indeed appear to hold something of an "Indian Sign" over
English sides in knockout competition, having not lost a tie since
1982, although that could very well change when Chelsea and Fenerbahce
meet one another in April.
Right, that's the hard work out of the way, does doing this get me
some kind of honourary membership of rsssf? If not I'll just go back
to ranting about money and big teams ruining World football.
RM
real_...@yahoo.co.uk
> This thread ws inspired by a response I gave over on the Awesome
> Worked CL Draw thread.
>
> On seeing that Chelsea had drawn Fenerbahce, Wanyik questioned whether
> English teams had a poor record against Turkish sides in Europe.
Quick correction, it was Red Moon who raised the original question,
not Wanyik.
RM