Is Italy win tainted?

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Jonathan Brimsfield

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Jul 6, 2006, 9:36:39 PM7/6/06
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Hello all,

I can not stand the machine like way Germany plays football. So, I very
much liked the Italy win - Especially since this Italy team is playing
attacking football compared to the past Italy teams.

Given that, I have a question for neutrals:

Is the Italy win over Germany tainted? Frings was suspended just before the
game. He was playing well and would have made a real difference for
Germany. Considering the scandal going on in Italy, would neutrals say in
the future that the timing of the suspension was "all too convenient" and
the reason why Italy won?

JB

David White

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Jul 6, 2006, 9:58:02 PM7/6/06
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"Jonathan Brimsfield" <jbrim...@iname.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97F8DBD8733Fjb...@199.45.49.11...

So, a suspension for punching a guy is not justified?

David


Ron

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Jul 6, 2006, 11:07:15 PM7/6/06
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In article <Xns97F8DBD8733Fjb...@199.45.49.11>,
Jonathan Brimsfield <jbrim...@iname.com> wrote:

> Is the Italy win over Germany tainted? Frings was suspended just before the
> game. He was playing well and would have made a real difference for
> Germany.

No, it's not tainted.

I think it's marginally unfair that Germany had as little time for prep
with Frings as they did, but, honestly, a player swipes at another
player, you can't complain when he's suspended. End of story.

(And yes, I was rooting for Germany in that game).

-Ron

Goldmund

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Jul 7, 2006, 1:11:45 AM7/7/06
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On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 01:36:39 GMT, Jonathan Brimsfield
<jbrim...@iname.com> wrote:

>Given that, I have a question for neutrals:
>
>Is the Italy win over Germany tainted? Frings was suspended just before the
>game. He was playing well and would have made a real difference for
>Germany. Considering the scandal going on in Italy, would neutrals say in
>the future that the timing of the suspension was "all too convenient" and
>the reason why Italy won?

I'm not a neutral, but despite the fact that nobody but frings is
responsible for his behaviour, I think it's not any good towards
Germany saying that they lost because frings was out.
He's not Zidane, not even Ballack, and the german team is a solid team
that certainly could substitute a player.

Gerrit Stolte

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Jul 7, 2006, 3:58:16 AM7/7/06
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Am Fri, 07 Jul 2006 01:36:39 GMT schrieb Jonathan Brimsfield:

> Hello all,
>
> I can not stand the machine like way Germany plays football. So, I very
> much liked the Italy win - Especially since this Italy team is playing
> attacking football compared to the past Italy teams.

Don't see where Germany played machine like football this time. Not even
the spanish and dutch media are coming up with that kind of description.

Gerrit

Futbolmetrix

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Jul 7, 2006, 5:06:04 AM7/7/06
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"Gerrit Stolte" <andanteco...@web.de> wrote in message
news:jqfik7w9pg7x$.tsvckbc32eve$.dlg@40tude.net...

>
> Don't see where Germany played machine like football this time. Not even
> the spanish and dutch media are coming up with that kind of description.

It doesn't matter, Gerrit. People, and especially the casual fans, need a
way to categorize teams in the WC, so they come with their pre-existing
opinions, and nothing will make them change their mind.

Germany: machine football
Brazil: samba football
Italy: catenaccio and diving
Portugal: diving
France: champagne football
Holland: total football
England: longball


Daniele


JPD

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Jul 7, 2006, 4:19:50 AM7/7/06
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Jonathan Brimsfield wrote:

> Is the Italy win over Germany tainted?

No. Italy were the better side on the field, and the winning goal -
one of the best goals of the tournament - was a just reward not only
for their superior play through the game but also the way they went for
attack rather than holding on for penalties. The second goal was
solely due to Germany having pushed forward (indeed I don't know why
Lehmann was not forward as well), but that does not detract from the
result in the slightest.

--

JPD

Message has been deleted

none...@googlemail.com

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Jul 7, 2006, 4:42:21 AM7/7/06
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A machine would probably not have punched another player, but yelled at
him "CTRL ALT DEL!!!!"

Tainted is a rather vague word. Depends on the perspective.
Technically, it is not tainted, the goal was cold-blooded and first
class. A slighly bitter aftertaste remains because of the indirect
involvement of the Italian media.

Anto

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Jul 7, 2006, 4:57:05 AM7/7/06
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Futbolmetrix wrote:

> Germany: machine football
> Brazil: samba football
> Italy: catenaccio and diving
> Portugal: diving
> France: champagne football
> Holland: total football
> England: longball
>

Australia: see England.

HellGate

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Jul 7, 2006, 7:58:23 AM7/7/06
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Jonathan Brimsfield wrote:
> Given that, I have a question for neutrals:
>
> Is the Italy win over Germany tainted? Frings was suspended just
> before the game. He was playing well and would have made a real
> difference for Germany. Considering the scandal going on in Italy,
> would neutrals say in the future that the timing of the suspension
> was "all too convenient" and the reason why Italy won?

I am not neutral at all :) but I don't see a reason why it should be
tainted. After all Italy got De Rossi suspended for 4 days for that flying
elbow against USA during game (and let me say it, the suspension was
ABSOLUTELY right, De Rossi was a jerk), and still half of the world blamed
us saying "Oh see? The usual Italy"... Frings punched another player in the
face AFTER the game, he was suspended against Italy (again, he HAD to be
suspended), and many people kept saying "Oh see? The usual Italy, now they
made FIFA suspend Frings".
The guy had what he deserved, like De Rossi did. They both had to be
suspended... :)
--
HellGate


jackca...@gmail.com

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Jul 7, 2006, 11:56:16 AM7/7/06
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Futbolmetrix wrote:
> Germany: machine football
> Brazil: samba football
> Italy: catenaccio and diving
> Portugal: diving
> France: champagne football
> Holland: total football
> England: longball

Pardon my ignorance, but what is "champagne football" ?

FairFootball

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Jul 7, 2006, 3:00:43 PM7/7/06
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Actually, it is tainted, but not because of Frings, that didn't count
too much. But they should have had a penalty for a foul at Podolsky at
the end of the regular period. See

http://www.FairFootball.com

Please don't suspect us we sided with Germany, on the contrary, we were
very sorry we had to decide it like this. The first italian goal was an
absolute beauty, and the second one almost equalled it. And they played
excellent over-all football throughout the game. And we think that had
Canavarro not fouled, Podolsky probably wouldn't have got much of that
ball anyway. But Canavarro did foul him.

As you can see the case is not singular, France benefitted from ref
decisions in all its 3 surprize victories. Unfortunately, it can
already be said that, though the quality of refereeing was probably
better than in 2002, this time they massively influenced the winner,
which last time they didn't.

The FairFootball team

Goldmund

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Jul 8, 2006, 2:33:15 AM7/8/06
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On 7 Jul 2006 12:00:43 -0700, "FairFootball"
<FAIRFOOT...@domainsbyproxy.com> wrote:


>Actually, it is tainted, but not because of Frings, that didn't count
>too much. But they should have had a penalty for a foul at Podolsky at
>the end of the regular period. See

That was no way close to a foul !
Then the ref made a second mistakke, because they were in the box, so
it would have been a penalty, but fortunately this lessened the
extension of the first mistake (still, if Germany had scored on a non
exissting free kick it would have been a disgrace)

FairFootball

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Jul 8, 2006, 7:30:29 PM7/8/06
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Goldmund wrote:
> On 7 Jul 2006 12:00:43 -0700, "FairFootball"
> <FAIRFOOT...@domainsbyproxy.com> wrote:
>
>
> >Actually, it is tainted, but not because of Frings, that didn't count
> >too much. But they should have had a penalty for a foul at Podolsky at
> >the end of the regular period. See
>
> That was no way close to a foul !

Sorry but it was. You're biased.
Do you have the game on tape ? If you do, go look again at the second
replay of the incident, it's a good angle and you can clearly see
Canavarro's hand on Podolsky's shoulder. There's little doubt about it.
Funny, we'd rather have expected objections to our penalty for Postiga.
Looks like there are no french reading this (either this, or they don't
think we are worth an answer :) ).

Goldmund

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Jul 9, 2006, 4:00:08 AM7/9/06
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On 8 Jul 2006 16:30:29 -0700, "FairFootball"
<FAIRFOOT...@domainsbyproxy.com> wrote:

>
>Goldmund wrote:
>> On 7 Jul 2006 12:00:43 -0700, "FairFootball"
>> <FAIRFOOT...@domainsbyproxy.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >Actually, it is tainted, but not because of Frings, that didn't count
>> >too much. But they should have had a penalty for a foul at Podolsky at
>> >the end of the regular period. See
>>
>> That was no way close to a foul !
>
>Sorry but it was. You're biased.

Not a good way to start a comment.Do you imply that I cannot comment
facts happened during games with Italy?

>Do you have the game on tape ? If you do, go look again at the second
>replay of the incident, it's a good angle and you can clearly see
>Canavarro's hand on Podolsky's shoulder. There's little doubt about it.
>Funny, we'd rather have expected objections to our penalty for Postiga.
>Looks like there are no french reading this (either this, or they don't
>think we are worth an answer :) ).

I've seen the action on many angles. Cannavaro didn't pull down
Podolsky, the fact that his hand is touching his shoulder is
irrelevant. that was not a foul, full stop.
The fact that the germans didn't ask for the penalty is also quite
meaningful: it was evident to everybody that the players had their
feet into the box, so if they though that was really a foul, they
would have protested.


FairFootball

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Jul 9, 2006, 10:50:55 PM7/9/06
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Goldmund wrote:
> On 8 Jul 2006 16:30:29 -0700, "FairFootball"
> <FAIRFOOT...@domainsbyproxy.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Goldmund wrote:
> >> On 7 Jul 2006 12:00:43 -0700, "FairFootball"
> >> <FAIRFOOT...@domainsbyproxy.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> >Actually, it is tainted, but not because of Frings, that didn't count
> >> >too much. But they should have had a penalty for a foul at Podolsky at
> >> >the end of the regular period. See
> >>
> >> That was no way close to a foul !
> >
> >Sorry but it was. You're biased.
>
> Not a good way to start a comment.Do you imply that I cannot comment
> facts happened during games with Italy?
>

I meant only this particular time, not in general.

> I've seen the action on many angles. Cannavaro didn't pull down
> Podolsky, the fact that his hand is touching his shoulder is
> irrelevant. that was not a foul, full stop.
> The fact that the germans didn't ask for the penalty is also quite
> meaningful: it was evident to everybody that the players had their
> feet into the box, so if they though that was really a foul, they
> would have protested.

To us it looked like he did pull him down a little, or at least climb
on him (he is lighter than Podolsky). Anyway, that's hard to say. In
our view, as I think I've said before, if there's doubt there's a foul,
he shouldn't have put his hand there to avoid suspicions.
The fact that the germans didn't protest is also not very relevant,
that's how they are, disciplined. The italians didn't protest either,
which they usually do. That would have been quite a scene, the italians
protesting for the foul and the germans because it wasn't a penalty.

Anyway, because of a little technical problem we weren't able to finish
the reporting on the final yet. It will be ready tomorrow night if
everything goes well.

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