RSS Poll: Greatest manager of the 21st century

[Al Kamista]

Following up on the Ancelotti thread, it would be interesting to see where we net out on who we perceive to be the best this millennium.

Ground rules similar to the RSS Coach Sack competition. You get 10 weightage points which you can allocate to managers of your choice, with a limit of 3 points per manager (so people don't over-index on one manager and skew the results).

For eligibility, a manager could have overlapped both millenniums, but with decent representation in the 21st (so for example, Sacchi only managed until 2001, so he would not make a lot of sense).

[Al Kamista]

One more thought - you can use whatever criteria makes most sense to you. So for example, going mainly by trophies, Ancelotti would be a good choice; going by influence on others, Bielsa might stand out; for punching above their $ weight, Klopp....and so on.

My picks:
Klopp 3
Mourinho 2
Guardiola 2
Ferguson 2
Conte 1

[Al Kamista]

Sorry but yet one more thought. Choices could be from anywhere in the world. So if Jesus wants to pick a local South American, or Mark wants to pick a domestic Cameroonian coach, all good!

[Futbolmetrix]

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 1:27:36 PM UTC-4, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:

> Ground rules similar to the RSS Coach Sack competition. You get 10 weightage points which you can allocate to managers of your choice, with a limit of 3 points per manager (so people don't over-index on one manager and skew the results).

Are we allowed decimal points?

[Al Kamista]

Ha, sure.

[Futbolmetrix]

Great, SophCon rules! But I won't abuse it...or maybe I will

Guardiola 3
Klopp 1.75
Conte 1.75
Simeone 1.5
Ancelotti 1
Zidane 0.25
Ferguson 0.25
Wenger 0.15
Tuchel 0.1
Gasperini 0.1
Emery 0.1
Pellegrini 0.05



By the way, here is the ranking of coaches by ClubElo (I couldn't find a page with all coaches ranked , so I had to look them up one by one. I might have missed someone)

Guardiola 2204
Klopp 2128
Mourinho 2077
Conte 2070
Zidane 2020
Simeone 2003
Pellegrini 2000
Emery 1999
Rangnick 1981
Spalletti 1978
Capello 1975
Ancelotti 1958
Tuchel 1953

[Al Kamista]

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 2:31:13 PM UTC-4, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 2:04:38 PM UTC-4, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 1:56:46 PM UTC-4, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> > > On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 1:27:36 PM UTC-4, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ground rules similar to the RSS Coach Sack competition. You get 10 weightage points which you can allocate to managers of your choice, with a limit of 3 points per manager (so people don't over-index on one manager and skew the results).
> > > Are we allowed decimal points?
> > Ha, sure.
> Great, SophCon rules! But I won't abuse it...or maybe I will
>
> Guardiola 3
> Klopp 1.75
> Conte 1.75
> Simeone 1.5

You made me realize that I completely overlooked Simone. As distasteful as his methods are, his results are undeniable. So my updated picks:
Klopp 2.5

Mourinho 2
Guardiola 2
Ferguson 2
Conte 1

Simone 0.5

[Werner Pichler]

Also, Sacchi is an idiot.


Guardiola 1.75
Klopp 1.5
Ancelotti 1
Simeone 0.75
Del Bosque 0.75
Ferguson 0.75
Flick 0.75
Tuchel 0.75
Mourinho 0.5
Zidane 0.5
Heynckes 0.25
Emery 0.25
Conte 0.25
Gasperini 0.25


Ciao,
Werner

[MH]

Are we restricting this to achievements with clubs, or are national team
coaches fair game, even if they have done little (Löw) or a fair bit
(Deschamps) at club level? Women's coaches ?

I am half tempted to give some token credit to Herdman.

[Al Kamista]

NT sure, women, up to you.

[MH]

On 2022-05-02 11:27, Al Kamista wrote:

Who do people think deserves consideration for the second half of the
20th Century. Lots of possibles:

Helenio Herrera
Bela Guttman
Rinus Michels
Johan Cruyff
Jock Stein
Matt Busby
Bill Shankly
Bob Paisley
Brian Clough
Udo Lattek
Guy Roux
Marcelo Lippi


.....more...

[Mark]

Maybe we should have a poll for greatest coach of all time.

[MH]

Hard to establish, because the influence of earlier coaches is harder to
document, but may have been much bigger than we realize. Plus the rate
of hiring, firing and mobility of coaches in the last 20-30 years is so
different than it was in the 50s-60s-70s-80s that the criteria would not
be comparable across eras.

[Futbolmetrix]

I would throw in here Trapattoni and Sacchi. Trapattoni because he won a lot, and with different teams. Sacchi had a very short peak, but hid ideas and style were transformative, and I put a lot of weight on that.

[Al Kamista]

On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 11:42:54 AM UTC-4, MH wrote:

How about making your picks?

[MH]

Is there a deadline? I would kind of like to wait for the end of the
season. If Liverpool win the league and a treble of some type, I will
upgrade my mark for Klopp. Ditto Guardiola if he wins the league and
the CL.

[Mark]

And we can't forget Tele Santana.
And maybe Ernst Happel.

[MH]

Would be interested to hear from Lleo/Clement/Jesus how they would rank
him compared to eg. Zagalo and others.

> And maybe Ernst Happel.

Definitely. Titles in multiple countries, decent results with national
team, and two European cups as well as more appearances in European finals.

[Jesus Petry]

Em quinta-feira, 5 de maio de 2022 às 17:18:23 UTC-3, MH escreveu:
> On 2022-05-05 14:01, Mark wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 4:57:29 PM UTC+1, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 5:55:54 PM UTC-4, MH wrote:
> >>> On 2022-05-02 11:27, Al Kamista wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Helenio Herrera
> >>> Bela Guttman
> >>> Rinus Michels
> >>> Johan Cruyff
> >>> Jock Stein
> >>> Matt Busby
> >>> Bill Shankly
> >>> Bob Paisley
> >>> Brian Clough
> >>> Udo Lattek
> >>> Guy Roux
> >>> Marcelo Lippi
> >> I would throw in here Trapattoni and Sacchi. Trapattoni because he won a lot, and with different teams. Sacchi had a very short peak, but hid ideas and style were transformative, and I put a lot of weight on that.
> >
> > And we can't forget Tele Santana.
> Would be interested to hear from Lleo/Clement/Jesus how they would rank
> him compared to eg. Zagalo and others.

Telê was big.
But we had a good number of great coaches. Zagallo is one of them.
I'll leave here Rubens Minelli, Ênio Andrade, Paulo César Carpegiani, early career Vanderlei Luxemburgo and, why not?, Scolari.
On a next level there's Abel Braga, Muricy Ramalho and Tite, for instance.

Tchau!
Jesus Petry

[MH]

Well does not look likely for the former, and the latter is completely out.

So:

Klopp 2
Guardiola 2
Mourinho 2 (mostly for what he did with Porto and first two Chelsea years
Deschamps 1 (respectable league management with clubs, and knows how to
win, though I wish he were more adventurous with France. Man management
good, also loyal to players that do the job)
Ancelotti 1
Ferguson 1 (mostly because his impressive accomplishments were more in
the previous century)
Herdman 0.5 (Has anyone else managed the transition from the women's
game to the mens, and done so successfully?)
Galthier 0.25
Garcia 0.25

[Werner Pichler]

Not exactly comparable, but Dominik Thalhammer after a nine-year tenure with the
Austrian women's NT (biggest success: semifinals of Euro 2017) had a semi-successful
domestic stint with LASK (decent in Europe, e.g. a 4-1 win over Sporting away to qualify
for the EL, less convincing in the league), but from the beginning he had to contend with
prejudice from a certain set of hardcore fans (the 'Damentrainer' label came out immediately
whenever things didn't go well) and he got fired halfway through this season (not that that did
LASK any good).

He has since gone to Belgium and taken over at Cercle Brugge. When he arrived
last December they were second from bottom, four points adrift, and they ended
the season in comfortable 10th, seventeen points clear, and their best result in a decade.


> Galthier 0.25
> Garcia 0.25

Rudi?! I think I'd have put in Óscar García before him...


Ciao,
Werner

[MH]

Yeah, Rudi. I perhaps attach too much significance to ANYONE who can
coach an under-resourced team like Lille, that constantly has to sell
its best players, to a championship in the face of competition from
teams like PSG, Marseille and Lyon.


>
> Ciao,
> Werner

[Werner Pichler]

But when Lille won in 2010/11 PSG weren't yet the unstoppable Qatar-fuelled machine they are today,
and I've yet to meet a Roma supporter who remembers his time there fondly...

Ciao,
Werner

[MH]

>>>
>>>
>>>> Galthier 0.25
>>>> Garcia 0.25
>>>
>>> Rudi?! I think I'd have put in Óscar García before him...
>>>
>> Yeah, Rudi. I perhaps attach too much significance to ANYONE who can
>> coach an under-resourced team like Lille, that constantly has to sell
>> its best players, to a championship in the face of competition from
>> teams like PSG, Marseille and Lyon.
>
> But when Lille won in 2010/11 PSG weren't yet the unstoppable Qatar-fuelled machine they are today,
> and I've yet to meet a Roma supporter who remembers his time there fondly...

A ten game winning streak to start his first season, and a second place
finish in the league each of his first two seasons (including CL
qualification for the first time quite a few years). winning percent
above 50 %. Not too shabby.

Got to QF with Lyon in CL by beating Juve.

Seems to me there is "something" there.

But I did leave out Conte, Laurent Blanc and other deserving people, del
Bosque too, so my choices can certainly be regarded as whimsical at best.

>
> Ciao,
> Werner

[Mark]

Can someone remind me of the name of the coach who won the Copa Sudamericana with Cienciano in 2003 please? And any information on anything else he achieved as a manager would be appreciated too.
Also, am I right in thinking Otto Rehaggel was the coach of Greece when they won the European Championship in 2004? And also the coach of Kaiserslautern when they won the German Championship in 1998?
And am I also right in thinking Guus Hiddink was the coach of South Korea when they reached the World Cup semi-final in 2002?

[Blueshirt]

Mark wrote:
>
> Can someone remind me of the name of the coach who won the Copa
> Sudamericana with Cienciano in 2003 please?

Freddy Ternero

> And any information on
> anything else he achieved as a manager would be appreciated too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddy_Ternero

> Also, am I right in thinking Otto Rehaggel was the coach of Greece
> when they won the European Championship in 2004? And also the coach
> of Kaiserslautern when they won the German Championship in 1998?

Yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Rehhagel

> And am I also right in thinking Guus Hiddink was the coach of South
> Korea when they reached the World Cup semi-final in 2002?

Yes, he was.

[MH]

On 2022-05-11 13:20, Mark wrote:
> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 6:27:36 PM UTC+1, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Following up on the Ancelotti thread, it would be interesting to see where we net out on who we perceive to be the best this millennium.
>>
>> Ground rules similar to the RSS Coach Sack competition. You get 10 weightage points which you can allocate to managers of your choice, with a limit of 3 points per manager (so people don't over-index on one manager and skew the results).
>>
>> For eligibility, a manager could have overlapped both millenniums, but with decent representation in the 21st (so for example, Sacchi only managed until 2001, so he would not make a lot of sense).
>
> Can someone remind me of the name of the coach who won the Copa Sudamericana with Cienciano in 2003 please? And any information on anything else he achieved as a manager would be appreciated too.
> Also, am I right in thinking Otto Rehaggel was the coach of Greece when they won the European Championship in 2004? And also the coach of Kaiserslautern when they won the German Championship in 1998?

Also the coach of Bremen when they won a bundesliga championship (in the
80s I think, probably 88). But 2 out of 3 of his big accomplishments
were before 2000. He also had many setbacks too.

> And am I also right in thinking Guus Hiddink was the coach of South Korea when they reached the World Cup semi-final in 2002?

Yes, but most of his accomplishments (eg. with PSV) were in the previous
millenium.

[Mark]

Thank you.